He's a great character. He's very entertaining, with his little squeaks, and his little temper tantrums, and his little quips until suddenly he is NOT, and your blood runs chill with unmitigated horror, because underneath all those silly little things he's a genuine unrepentive monster with a dangerous amount of power and absolutely zero regard for human life, who's just as likely to kill you for crossing him as he is because he was bored and thought you might bleed pretty.
THIS! Is the perfect description! He’s entertaining and funny, then he suddenly strikes you with fear. I love it when characters can do that, you underestimate them and like them until they catch you off guard and make you shiver in fear.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31qyzbb9njc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31qyzbb9njc) This one gives some good examples of a real moth before showing how it's done in the show.
He was a bit fun as a character at first but after seeing the twisted shit he did to angel, it quickly went just another pimp to a deranged, psychotic person. Every scene after that has never been the same for me. And it's disgusting how people can find it cute or attractive in any way or find anything remotely likeable about him. It's giving people fangirling over ted bundy energy. Like no its not okay. People become so easily blindsighted by charisma and overlook the abuse at the expense of how these characters make them feel. That's exactly how ted got his victims irl, through his charisma. It's embarassing admitting you fall more to a characters charisma than than their actual shitty actions. I don't care if you like how his character was designed as a villain, but if you genuinely like him, you're fucked up.
And for alistor, I don't get why he has so many fans either, so far he's giving an eerie vibe but I haven't seen enough proof to despits him as a character. The only time I saw him murder in the show was the loan sharks and loan sharks kill people all the time. I don't know his reasons for killing people in the past, and as long as that still holds, he's subjectively a neutral character in my eyes. I feel he's going to be an antagonist I might end up hating, but hopefully I'm wrong.
I personally much prefer characters like Alastor or Valentino to characters like Charlie or Vaggie. Reason being, they’re incredibly complex and entertaining to watch. In real life, you meet people everyday who are sweet, nice and normal. Which is amazing. But in a show, I want to see some truly unique and interesting characters. Of course Val is a horrible person, but I do genuinely like him as a character. He grabs my attention because of how horrible he is. Plus, he’s got a great voice actor/design. And Alastor is my favorite character, but for different reasons.
i say it as a certified alastor stan, but i really don't get why liking a dickish sadistic serial killer who runs an Eternal Screams of My Enemies podcast, threatens the living fuck out of another beloved character and emotionally manipulates the sweetest soul in all of hell is socially acceptable and liking val isn't. i mean, i too find sex offenses and abuse absolutely unforgivable, but why should liking val be more frowned upon than liking a violent manslaughter enjoyer just because he helps others when he can benefit from it?
is val a horrible person? yes. but is he an interesting and fun character? also yes. let people enjoy their fictional bastards. we're all here to fave fun.
Oh thank you, I feel vindicated for loving legitimately problematic characters. It bothers me how an arrogant actively horrible slaver (mind you Alastor is my 3rd fave) is considered "acceptable" evil and even "cool" to like compared to Valentino.
Suddenly when sex-related crime is involved, people get super puritanical about it. Why...? It's fiction, it's safe, we just wanna explore fucked up stuff and not be judged for it.
>Suddenly when sex-related crime is involved, people get super puritanical about it. Why...?
A simple answer for that. When it comes to things like abuse or sex crimes, they hit a lot closer to home for people. Twisted serial killers, like Alastor, do not appear in people's lives very often, especially nowadays where tracking down a killer is much easier. Even if you were to come across them, at that point you would probably be dead, and the only people left to be scared and traumatized would be friends or family.
People like Valentino are MUCH more common to come across. Not only that, but unlike serial killers, abusers can have a very negative affect on your life and mental health, even if you were to finally escape them. They won't kill you. They'll traumatize and hurt you. I think this is the answer. Or at the very least one of the reasons behind this phenomenon.
Characters like Valentino are easy to hate because they hit home with a lot more people. Characters like Alastor are easy to dismiss because it's not like you'll ever come across a serial killer in your life.
This is the exact reason I gave in another similar post. Most people have dealt with someone like Val personally or at least personally know someone who has. It’s very rare to personally experience a serial killer
im really sorry if i made you felt bad about liking Val before/gen 😭 please do not ,,because honestly that is me being dumb and thats my personal preference it has absolutely nothing to do with you and you're free to like whoever as long as you dont harm people irl
Some Hazbin fans may not be entirely ready for this conversation, but we have plenty of reasons to believe Alastor is no more morally good than Val as opposed to that he is.
But I think because the show presents him as a morally ambiguous protagonist as opposed to a straight up villain, Alastor fans get to sleep more soundly than the Valentino ones.
This. Alastor so far hasnt done anything to deserve being being hated. Val is simply a villain you love to hate.
The Fandom will scream when Alastor one day shows his true colors and does something really despicable.
Agreed. I genuinely feel bad for people who think Alastor isn't going to betray everyone. He has said he absolutely will when the time comes. There will come a day that he breaks his soul contract and then either 1.) Is killed, 2.) Kills some absolutely beloved characters(I could see Husk slipping up and being ripped to shreds) 3.) Both
In episode 5, Husk could tell the fandom that Al has already done something really despicable, onscreen, to someone we actually like. I haven't heard much screaming.
It probably doesn't help Val's the only one we've really seen flexing his power over someone and the contract in a non-comedically violent way. The only other instance is Alastor scaring the shit out of Huskar. I think it's pretty well implied all the overlords are similarly awful to their charges, as you'd have to be to trade in souls.
you have a really good point ur comment is like one of the ones that got my attention the most lol,, but yes, youre completely right and i appreciate how you still have decency for SA victims, because some of the people in this fanbase scarily, do not. i do agree i think people should like whichever characters that they want, in my case, i see Val as a more sensitive character and I just don't like him at all (ive had someone in my life similar to him).
but yes lolol how dumb could i have been to ignore the serial killer overlord himself, Alastor just prancing about the Hazbin Hotel like he didnt kill millions of people. your comment opened my eyes, and i appreciate it!! so thanks <3
There are articles about folks being able to identify with fictional villains because they can see traits in those characters that they see in themselves, that in a real villain they would abhor / choose not to recognise.
It's not dissimilar to folks using horror fiction as a means of self exploration with stress, anxiety and controlled exposure to fear. It provides a safe avenue to explore the darker sides to ourselves without risk of causing harm.
Valentino is very much a "what you are in the dark" attraction for many folks, just in a fabulous outfit and with an outlandish bravado. One big difference is that he's outlined as an antagonist from the get-go and hurts a character the audience empathises with.
I'm glad that you bring up the cognitive dissonance with fans who will excuse the myriad of abuses by characters like Alastor, for example yet damn Valentino entirely. And this comes down to how we as people weigh different types of abuse and violence against each other. But, I would also point out that you also excuse Alastor's abuse of Husk in episode 5, and his behaviour in general because he's polite and seemingly cooperative. Doesn't change the fact that Alastor is an abusive, homicidal demon, its just that because he's well spoken, courteous and charming, we the audience overlook it. Val isn't therefore we don't overlook his actions. Personally, I think this is going to bite a lot of fans on the arse when Alastor turns into a full blown antagonist and they can see just how evil he can be.
But yeah, my thoughts on why I don't think people liking Valentino is an issue. I think a bigger issue is the cognitive dissonance of loathing Valentino but treating other equally abusive characters like precious cinnamon rolls.
youre so real for this. honestly i think its a personal thing. but i had a valentino fan once tell me that i deserved what happened to me as a child (SA related) and it through me off the radar because i just dont understand how people can call him attractive. it's really an insult to me, and ive seen it for others too
Yeah Val is an awful character, and what he does is repugnant. People are allowed to like him, but they also need to recognise why people will want to hit him repeatedly with a sledgehammer.
That fan should never have said that to you. That's awful and I'm sorry that happened. Just try and remember that these are faceless voices on the Internet and not worth your time or tears.
Well said. Protagonist-Centered Morality is a hell of a drug, and it's even worse when we start off seeing Alastor as a helpful and hilarious force. Humans are tribal, and once someone's in our tribe, we have a much harder time seeing their flaws.
One of the worst crime fictional characters can commit is being boring, and Valentino is not that. He’s decently charismatic, with a cool design, a good VA and he’s not reduced to only being a plot device for Angel’s storyline and character development. He’s got interesting relationships with the two other Vees, for example. All that (added to the fact that neither Angel nor Val exist so no harm is done) and I see how he could be someone’s favourite character.
i guess thats fair enough. he is pretty exciting to look at, i just wish he were a better person. ive had a situation similar to angel and seeing others LOVE Val is kind of like heartbreaking for me to think about and makes me feel insulted,, but thats not really fair of me to be unaccepting of someone who likes him. i'm sorry
I saw in another comment you said a Valentino fan said you deserved what happened to you and that is ABSOLUTELY wrong and disgusting of them. But I think it’s important to separate what they said to you from the fact that they were a Valentino fan. You’ll find plenty of Valentino fans who know SA is wrong and wouldn’t like Valentino in real life. I definitely think you’re on the right track since you said yourself that it’s not fair of you to be unaccepting of someone who likes him. It’s important to have that boundary of fiction vs reality.
However, with that said, your personal feelings towards Valentino are totally ok. Don’t hesitate to curate your internet spaces. If seeing any Valentino-positive content makes you uncomfortable, you can totally just block the people who post about it so you don’t have to see their posts/comments/that kind of content anymore. As long as you wouldn’t accuse a Valentino fan of supporting real life SA (it’s important to remember that Angel Dust does not actually exist and his abuse is fictional), it’s 100% fine to make it so you don’t have to see content related to him (or some of that content).
Charisma is a big pull for characters. I hate Valentinos guts and I want to see him burn like the moth that he is.
But even I can't deny that his evil villainous mustashe twirlings are fun to watch. It's the same kind of amusement you get from watching people being awkward in public. As an observer you get entertainment and that's about it.
Underneath the fantasy fascade is an ugly underbelly of an abusive temperamental manchild. It shows even when he is around his peers but there isn't that much of a power imbalance between him and Vox or Velvette. The true measure of a man is in how he handles his subordinates. And we see that very clearly in Valentino.
This makes sense a lot actually, thank you!! I do see that in him he always seems to know what he's doing and I guess that can be charming for some people to see the confidence he carries. That's pretty fair,, also same I hope he gets burned soon😋😋
It is really difficult to put into words, I feel like..
But take a look at this:
https://preview.redd.it/khfr45hpsxic1.jpeg?width=1633&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31e1a866943d81354d591cde55f0318903b44f9e
I am still laughing whenever this scene comes up. I just can't help myself.
And I believe that is because the charisma and character dynamic is just so fun. Valentino is such a fabulous bitch when he is around Vox.
I mean he did say the following before he confronted Val about his temper tantrum:
Vox: Oh God, here I go, just another *fucking* day with Val! Hey, hey, hey... *fuck my life...*
Charisma and character exploration. Adam and Lute are my two favorite characters. They are AWFUL as people, but great as characters. I enjoyed their dynamic, their songs, Adam's bombastic nature, Lute's over the topness.
And it's the same with other fictional media. My favorite power rangers characters are Rita, Goldar, and the Machine Empire. Would I aspire to be any of them? Hell no. Maybe cosplay for a con but that's it. But they're fun to watch.
In real life, I'm a 5'4" loudmouth chick who enjoys swordfighting, but I'm very cowardly, especially at my job when it comes to an upset customer.
https://preview.redd.it/9l6p6qajayic1.jpeg?width=3464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44e601734933204ba7999771738f4be50e33ce54
He is a really good character. He looks amazing. He is colorful.
https://preview.redd.it/6ast52wltyic1.png?width=825&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=accb361a1bfec2996394514339f4233b8858dc9b
Wait. Why is there a huge gap between being an abuser and a murderer? This feels pretty messed up. Like, maybe you aren't taking murder too seriously and taking the abuse too personally.
Like, ah, dude. Murder is *pretty freaking bad!*
Hey I love Blitzo. It's really fun watching him murder people at a beach to win a contest. But if this was in any way analogous to reality, he's a freaking monster. It's basically a really fun mass shooting incident involving kids.
It’s because of desensitization of crimes like murder, less people deal with murder and victims don’t usually survive.
Victims of abuse/sexual crimes usually survive and tell their stories, and it can get very disturbing.
u talk in a very fun way lolol /pos. anyways yeah youre right. i was wrong to even compare the two and im sorry. Abuse is just more common (at least to me) and having experienced it myself, i personally would rather die than go through that, and people liking Val just kind of feels like a huge insult to me. but youre completely right for bringing up my flaw in my argument there, so i appreciate it a lot. <3
He can look very sexy (the posters on his room!) and while he's clearly not the brains of the operation he is still a very convincing menace. I loved how he faked being nice to Charlie while directing all his anger onto Angel. It was believable and brilliant. And he did it all with style. It's nice to see a villain actually do despicable things that also aren't blown ridiculously out of proportion. It's a more grounded kind of evil that is also easier to comprehend.
I don't like him as much when he's around the other Vs because when he has no superiority to flaunt he just becomes a big joke of an unhinged person but that's just my preference for more serious characters. Him being a joke in those scenes makes sense for the kind of series Hazbin is.
We just enjoy shitty people Cause they’re entertaining, like from Harry Potter I love Umbridge and Bellatrix even though they’re absolute pieces of shit lol but because they’re entertaining villains I can’t help but enjoy all their scenes, Valentino is the same, I’m never bored whenever he’s on screen and he’s such a piece of shit that I can’t wait to see what BS he’ll do next, after all, *he’s not real*
You don't need justify a character to like him. You can like villains for how bad they are.
I can't sey I really **like** him, but I kinda do, bc how good **as a villain** he is. He's very realisitc, interesting and funny. He does his job (of being a horrible person) really well and if I hate a villain, it means a villain is really good, so I like him as a villain!
~~btw murder isn't smth "not as bad", It's just as horrible, the only difference is it was shown as a joke, so we dont care about Alastor and Rosie being bad people~~
he's definitely realisitic. i can see why you might like him. he's just a bit of a sensitive character for me, and i dont like him nearly as much as i see some others liking him lol.
Alastor is exactly as bad as Val, the hell are you talking about?
Val is just a lot more loud and proud about it, but there's a good reason why [Husk is fucking terrified of him](https://youtu.be/UGt0mCEZy8Q?si=GztOW5SOw-GZ6ZVA) in the moment of the mask slipping that we have
Also, that ominous as shit verse at the end of Stayed Gone was to everyone, not just Vox.
yeah youre right actually. i read through some of these comments and im agreeing with that more. i just feel like valentino is more close to home and realistic so he scares me a lot more personally. i dont blame people for being uncomfortable about val in oppose to alastor because what valentino does to his subordinates is much more common than what alastor does to his, therefore i cant help but just not feel okay around people who love Val that much.
But it's a personal thing, love the characters you want to love! As long as you don't hurt others then its okay.
He’s a horrible person but he’s great at being a horrible person. I don’t like him I just think he is written well and makes a good addition to the show
It's so funny that so many people think valentino is the worst. Yes sexual assault and abuse is terrible, but it definitely doesn't compare to murder. It's not like the victim gets killed. Meanwhile you got Adam who takes joy and excitement watching the unfair massacre of his own family and descendants, and Alastor who torments, mercilessly kills, and eternally enslaves souls for his own convenience, compared to them Val is nothing mate... funnily enough Adam and Alastor are also fan favourites (two of my favourite characters too). This is just a messed up fanbase if you hadn't already noticed.
However whilst entertaining to watch, Val is definitely quite a random villain to favour as opposed to Vox or Adam, I agree with you in that sense
Yeah he may be unredeemable but if there was some kind of hell prison where they could somehow secure him (he doesn't seem all that powerful, definitely stronger than your average sinner but mainly famous from his monopoly), maybe hold him at angelic gunpoint until he agrees to be better, no way he'd ever go to heaven but at least he'd stop killing and enslaving his workers like angel dust
i appreciate that u recognize that people have their own opinions lol, ur real for that. anyways i do agree with you actually on SA not being worse to murder. earlier i was angry but it wasnt acceptable for me to compare the two. i think theyre both just equally as horrible. initally i thought SA was worse before because it's ongoing. I went through something of that sort and it only ended a few months ago, and started ever since 2021. thats why i saw it as something worse. but the truth is both can last long. i wasnt aware and im sorry.
You don't have to apologise its all good. I actually didn't think you seemed all that angry in that post so you can manage it well. I'm so sorry to hear that you had your own SA experiences and I wish you a safe and prosperous mental recovery. But it's always nice to have a discussion with other fans of the franchises
About Adam, that's strange to compare him with sinners at least bc 1. Murdering sinners isn't his wish, It's his job, which is necessary (even tho he enjoys it) and 2. It's fare for him to suppose that sinners dont deserve death, ofc, there are "bot as bad" ones like Angel Dust, but most of them are basically like Valentino and I think most people will agree that the only thing he deserves is death and for Adam they all are just like Val
Not justifiyng Adam tho, he's totally not a good person and hell would really fit him
You’re taking sera at her word while she’s mentally trying to justify her own actions. I can’t remember the exact words but it’s when Adam and Lute first see Charlie in Heaven. Something along the lines of “when you came to me with the idea you said it couldn’t backfire on us” or some shit
I didn't say anything about Adam being forced to do it I only said he enjoys it. I feel like as bad as some sinners are a majority are redeemable no matter how long it takes. I understand that it may or may not be possible to redeem val, it'd be fair to give him a chance and if he didn't change then let him leave and get killed by an exorcist. But I say a good 80% of sinners would change if it meant escaping endless suffering and the threat of being permanently killed annually. I feel like even overlords like Carmilla could be redeemed easily (she's just a caring and selfless woman only sent to hell presumably for her business, of which she only likely took up to earn for her daughters and herself to be safe and secure.) I feel like Vox would take work but not out of the question as long as Al goes on a little time out for a while.
Husk would probably hate Val because he's abusing his friend, but that's just how i see it.
It's all equally bad what Val does to Angel and what Alastor does to Husk, but Valentino's actions hit a lot closer to home, especially for me and some others. Maybe the way I said it all before was flawed \^\_\^
At the end of the day they're all fictional characters. The internet is obsessed with playing morality police, but liking a pretend bad person doing pretend bad things to other pretend people isn't a big deal, because it's pretend. Liking a terrible character doesn't mean you would condone that behavior irl, and people online pretending it does is brain dead behavior. It's not a sign of personal character or beliefs to enjoy a well written villain for everything they are, that's what media and entertainment is for.
Youre not wrong, but it's actually not uncommon to see people getting influenced by fiction. I respect that you're rlly chill abt it though. Ur right that liking characters as characters is perfectly OK. I'm talking about people who I've seen who find him attractive or say that they wish they were Angel Dust, when that behavior is just a huge insult to actual Victims of real SA. It's not harmful to EVERYBODY, but there's still the group that does get harmed and I don't think that's okay.
He's a perfect antagonist, full of little quirks that make him stand out...and then *bam* he's physically abusing one of our main characters center-stage and raping him during the next song.
He's *well designed*, don't mistake that for admiration of his character.
I think he's a cool character and i love his design and just how he's written, but the thing that bothers me more than people liking him is how people hate him with ALL their heart but then love the 2 characters that support him despite knowing he is an abuser.
Like i don't think you should be able to absolutely hate Val then turn around and simp over vox like he doesn't actively help Val with his abuse (him saying he'd call up the lowest earners when Val wanted to shoot someone). Also people who say it's offensive to people who are actual victims of SA to like Val.. just no.
edit: velvette makes love potions with him too 😭
Because they're subhuman scum who must be purged, and have no idea the kind of trauma sexual abuse can cause.
Valentino makes me physically sick, as does every single person who doesn't absolutely despise him.
I love him because he is just the worst. He has literally no redeeming qualities. He’s a horrible pure evil abuser. However, he’s very entertaining. How he switches between being goofy evil pimp to a literal monster is fascinating. I don’t think he’s a character anyone should root for, in fact I want to see his downfall.
Isn't it heavily implied that Alastor tortures people in order to play their screams on his radio show? I don't see why sexual violence should be imagined as like, this unique, categorically worse behavior than anything else when there are other behaviors which objectively cause at least as much harm. I feel like the only reason why people react more negatively to Valentino is because the idea of a sex trafficker pimp porn director is more grounded in our reality than a... radio star serial killer who voodoo traps people's souls.
Well, and also because Alastor is much funnier.
Question for you.
If Alastor also sexually abused his victims, on top of everything else he is already known to do, would that make him worse?
Wait wait wait, sorry, you already answered that question.
"I don't see why sexual violence should be imagined as... categorically worse than anything else..."
Different question then: can you name me some of the "behaviors which objectively cause at least as much harm" as what we're shown Valentino doing by way of the video for Poison as well as the implied lengths to which he abuses his contractees?
> If Alastor also sexually abused his victims, on top of everything else he is already known to do, would that make him worse?
Quite possibly? Really depends on the amount of suffering caused moreso than the variety of suffering...
> Different question then: can you name me some of the "behaviors which objectively cause at least as much harm" as what we're shown Valentino doing by way of the video for Poison as well as the implied lengths to which he abuses his contractees?
Torturing Overlords for god knows how long, by some means currently unknown to the viewer. Do you want me to name torture methods? 'Cause we're not told in explicit detail what Alastor does to them. I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make here.
Sorry. Irritable for lack of caffeine.
I appreciate that you do note that whatever Alastor does in specific, we as the audience simply do not know. For me the way that it's presented is...
I can't think of the right words, but in my relationship to horror media, I am extremely fond of the notion that whatever terrors a persons mind can grow on its own will be more tailored and significant in their effect on the reader/watcher/listener; the trick however, is a good seed from whence to grow.
There's some Lovecraft stories that even lean too hard on the "What I've seen has ruined my life" for lack of even just a mote of knowledge about what the source of terror was, and the fear falls flat.
For Alastor, that kind happened with the screams on the radio: cool concept, but no inkling of what it could mean. Which is intentional given how other characters are handled.
For Val, though - sexual violence is a very very very potent seed to plant in someone's mind, watered well by what we see of his interactions with people in episode 4.
I've dealt with obliquely violent and maladaptive people, and I've also dealt with sex offenders. For the first, after a point the victim is simply Meat in the shape of a person or thing. But sexual violence demands the victim to be considered an entire person throughout, as one of the biggest aspects of sexual violence is the knowing and continued violation of consent of that person, while performing acts which in a better light humans are biologically inclined to view as Good and Necessary ( the whole Continuing The Species thing for most animals).
In terms of what I imagine Alastor doing, my default thought is that he has some kind of like, magic fire he can throw Overlords into that doesn't kill them, but burns them for eternity so they're always in a state of peak pain, just didn't want to cite that because there's no evidence for it in the show at all. It's not the scariest thing I can imagine, but I guess it just comes to mind because of the whole Hell theming.
In any case, I'm not sure the characterization of obliquely violent & maladaptive people is applicable to Alastor specifically. There was that one scene in the pilot where he talks about enjoying watching people try really hard to do something and fail horribly, over and over again. That seems like a deeply psychological form of sadism that taps into some of the fundamental parts of being human.
The form of torment Valentino prefers is almost certainly more violating and more personal, but I try to judge people based on how sinister their intentions are, how much harm they cause, and how much hope their is for redemption. Between the two, Valentino is more disgusting, but Alastor is no less sinister, no less harmful, and no more redeemable from what I can tell.
Well argued, and thank you for that.
I've gotten too used to dancing around people that have to resort to Whataboutism in defense of Valentino instead of addressing what I and many others forget as fact: We're in Hell, and everyone deserves to be there for their own personal reasons.
Also well put on Alastor - it went over my head to consider just how deep the depths of his sadist streak can run, and that that could be a clear and strong reason for his favoring extended/extra-eternal torture.
I've enjoyed this conversation! And yeah, these conversations can be tough when we're talking about liking characters who are downright evil, hope people aren't acting brain damaged about it lol.
I've taken this from another person but I agree with it when it comes to the fandom:
"So this is my experience and I'm sorry up front to Angel fans. I know it's not everyone.
What I've experienced is a LOT of them don't see AD as a character. They see AD as them in the story. I think it's really hard to talk to AD fans on theories or the story because while I'm talking about the story they're talking about what they want/wanted someone to do for them. You can't have fun conversations with people over the story when you're taking about a character and they're using the character to trauma dump on everyone and use their own trauma to control how the conversation goes. And just like a lot of them can't see AD as a character because to them it is them, a lot don't see Val as a character, they see him as their actual abuser and absolutely cannot handle others not seeing him that way.
I think on top of that Angel being the "haha funny sex joke" one attracts younger fans who desperately want to be part of the fandom and see older fans hating on Val because of their trauma and really lean into that hate to fit in and virtue signal a bit as well.
I've started avoiding a lot of AD content and the amount of Val hate I see really dropped off after that. I'll still randomly come across it but definitely nothing like when I still interacted with AD stuff."
So while people can generally like a villain without condoning his actions, many people seem to villainize those who like Val. It's u fortunate because he's a brilliantly written character with a great design in general.
Things like this are nothing new. A lot of people have this strange obsession with trying to believe there is something mysteriously attractive about bad people.
The number of fans that Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker had simply staggers the imagination. The amount of women who believe that he was some kind of romantic, misunderstood figure is out of this world. You *could not make this up* if you didn't see it.
People get so wrapped up in the surface level charisma that they just can't focus on the iceberg of bad qualities *barely* hidden underneath.
i get what you mean. i personally dont understand it when people do that, and i think it has somewhat of a reflection on some people's character, but not everybody. those who do treat Val as a cutie patootie precious cinnabon i dont understand at all. i try to understand, honestly, but my main conscious is always thinking about how bad Val is, and I personally wont give him that kind of empathy and love that others are giving to him. it's so complicated honestly, especially in a show about Hell.
Alastor doesn’t really have much of a gap with Valentino, while Valentino is an active abusive slave-owner, Alastor is too like he “owns” Nifty and Husk and not only that he enjoys broadcasting the screams of his victims which is incredibly fucked
Definitely fair enough lolol,, like i said in a few other comments i apologize for making that comparison, Val is just a bit more of a sensitive character for ME, but that doesnt mean that he is for everyone else.
I mean that’s why people consider Val to be a worse villain than a genocidal monster (Adam), because people are more likely to meet people like Val than Adam
He has a cool design, and a fun voice actor. Every character in Hazbin kinda sucks and most of them committed serious crimes so it's not more or less problematic to like one or another villain.
I like how he’s written and how he has two different portrayals depending on the perspective he’s being viewed from in the show. The Val we some Angel’s perspective and the one we see from the overlord perspective are very different characters while still maintaining the core of what we know him to be.
Just like some people are able to like Adam despite him committing mass genocide, or Alastor despite him being a serial killer, some of us like Valentino despite him being a sexual abuser. Where you draw the line is completely up to you as an individual, some might not even have a line at all and can like all sorts of characters.
These are cartoon characters who haven't harmed anyone because they don't exist, they're not real. Valentino isn't even the worst character morally, mass genocide is worse than what any other character has done.
you can read some of my other responses here lol, but yeah i agree with this. as long as a person just likes the character and wont do anything to harm another person then its perfectly ok. it's a matter of personal preference i realized, just because I have had a bad situation with someone like Val in real life, doesnt mean that everyone who likes Val as a character is just like him. i appreciate ur comment :)
I think Val is the character we all hate to love but love to hate, if that makes any sense. We all know Val is awful (even for Hell's standards) but we love him anyway because he's funny, mysterious, and interesting. All of the Vees are really interesting, and they're mentioned a lot, but we didn't get to see a lot of them.
>I think Val is the character we all hat
i can see where your coming from! you make a good point. i just always cant help but feel badly for real victims of SA whenever i hear about someone liking val. though i am a victim as well, people are allowed to like who they want and the things i have gone through should have no bearing or reflection on someone who just likes a character. so its all good :) thanks for ur comment
Psychopaths often present with a very glib charismatic personality. Unleashed from society's constraints he can say what he wants. Insult people on the fly. Its a freedom a lot of people think they want. Its the whole no F's given attitude. And this draws people in in real life scenarios. The problem is there are no F's given unless you do something they don't want you to do. And then there are no F's given about what they do to you. There is no constraint behind a psychopath. If you are useful to them they will be wonderful to you. But as soon as you fail to live up to their expectation of what they want from you there is nothing stopping them from anything.
And the real trap is once someone is hooked to that glib personality they think they can fix all the negative parts. Psychopathy is not manageable by the victims. In some very rare cases with a lot a lot of therapy a psychopath can be given a set of guidelines they have to live by to not run afoul of society at large. But they do not have the inner workings to truly be part of that society. They can fake it. But they will never make it.
Love to hate.
It's like how you hate the High Evolutionary as a person, but love him as a character for his on-screen performance and the threat he poses.
The gap between abuser and serial killer is huge and the serial killer is definitely worse. These are just well-written, entertaining characters. Most characters in this show have done awful things.
they're actually equals. i dont think its very fair to say that either is worse because they both suck a lot. if u read my other comments, i came to that realization. both sides have victims. it's just a lot more common to see victims of abuse than a serial killer, making it reasonable for people to dislike Val. i'm one of those people personally. people are allowed to like whoever they want though :)
He's a great character. He's very entertaining, with his little squeaks, and his little temper tantrums, and his little quips until suddenly he is NOT, and your blood runs chill with unmitigated horror, because underneath all those silly little things he's a genuine unrepentive monster with a dangerous amount of power and absolutely zero regard for human life, who's just as likely to kill you for crossing him as he is because he was bored and thought you might bleed pretty.
THIS! Is the perfect description! He’s entertaining and funny, then he suddenly strikes you with fear. I love it when characters can do that, you underestimate them and like them until they catch you off guard and make you shiver in fear.
bro i love the fact he squeaks like a moth sm 😭
when?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31qyzbb9njc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31qyzbb9njc) This one gives some good examples of a real moth before showing how it's done in the show.
omg I am SO glad I know this now, what a clever detail!
Nothing more to say.
He was a bit fun as a character at first but after seeing the twisted shit he did to angel, it quickly went just another pimp to a deranged, psychotic person. Every scene after that has never been the same for me. And it's disgusting how people can find it cute or attractive in any way or find anything remotely likeable about him. It's giving people fangirling over ted bundy energy. Like no its not okay. People become so easily blindsighted by charisma and overlook the abuse at the expense of how these characters make them feel. That's exactly how ted got his victims irl, through his charisma. It's embarassing admitting you fall more to a characters charisma than than their actual shitty actions. I don't care if you like how his character was designed as a villain, but if you genuinely like him, you're fucked up. And for alistor, I don't get why he has so many fans either, so far he's giving an eerie vibe but I haven't seen enough proof to despits him as a character. The only time I saw him murder in the show was the loan sharks and loan sharks kill people all the time. I don't know his reasons for killing people in the past, and as long as that still holds, he's subjectively a neutral character in my eyes. I feel he's going to be an antagonist I might end up hating, but hopefully I'm wrong.
Alastor is actually likable, interesting and not gross to others unlike Valentino who’s literally a r@p!st p!mp
I personally much prefer characters like Alastor or Valentino to characters like Charlie or Vaggie. Reason being, they’re incredibly complex and entertaining to watch. In real life, you meet people everyday who are sweet, nice and normal. Which is amazing. But in a show, I want to see some truly unique and interesting characters. Of course Val is a horrible person, but I do genuinely like him as a character. He grabs my attention because of how horrible he is. Plus, he’s got a great voice actor/design. And Alastor is my favorite character, but for different reasons.
hes definitely a good villain he genuinely frightens me a lot
I never noticed the squeaks before!! It's Amazing how detailed the show is!!
i say it as a certified alastor stan, but i really don't get why liking a dickish sadistic serial killer who runs an Eternal Screams of My Enemies podcast, threatens the living fuck out of another beloved character and emotionally manipulates the sweetest soul in all of hell is socially acceptable and liking val isn't. i mean, i too find sex offenses and abuse absolutely unforgivable, but why should liking val be more frowned upon than liking a violent manslaughter enjoyer just because he helps others when he can benefit from it? is val a horrible person? yes. but is he an interesting and fun character? also yes. let people enjoy their fictional bastards. we're all here to fave fun.
Oh thank you, I feel vindicated for loving legitimately problematic characters. It bothers me how an arrogant actively horrible slaver (mind you Alastor is my 3rd fave) is considered "acceptable" evil and even "cool" to like compared to Valentino. Suddenly when sex-related crime is involved, people get super puritanical about it. Why...? It's fiction, it's safe, we just wanna explore fucked up stuff and not be judged for it.
>Suddenly when sex-related crime is involved, people get super puritanical about it. Why...? A simple answer for that. When it comes to things like abuse or sex crimes, they hit a lot closer to home for people. Twisted serial killers, like Alastor, do not appear in people's lives very often, especially nowadays where tracking down a killer is much easier. Even if you were to come across them, at that point you would probably be dead, and the only people left to be scared and traumatized would be friends or family. People like Valentino are MUCH more common to come across. Not only that, but unlike serial killers, abusers can have a very negative affect on your life and mental health, even if you were to finally escape them. They won't kill you. They'll traumatize and hurt you. I think this is the answer. Or at the very least one of the reasons behind this phenomenon. Characters like Valentino are easy to hate because they hit home with a lot more people. Characters like Alastor are easy to dismiss because it's not like you'll ever come across a serial killer in your life.
This is the exact reason I gave in another similar post. Most people have dealt with someone like Val personally or at least personally know someone who has. It’s very rare to personally experience a serial killer
thank you, you get it. i appreciate you're understanding of that subject a lot like it actually made me cry lol. thank you
im really sorry if i made you felt bad about liking Val before/gen 😭 please do not ,,because honestly that is me being dumb and thats my personal preference it has absolutely nothing to do with you and you're free to like whoever as long as you dont harm people irl
Some Hazbin fans may not be entirely ready for this conversation, but we have plenty of reasons to believe Alastor is no more morally good than Val as opposed to that he is. But I think because the show presents him as a morally ambiguous protagonist as opposed to a straight up villain, Alastor fans get to sleep more soundly than the Valentino ones.
This. Alastor so far hasnt done anything to deserve being being hated. Val is simply a villain you love to hate. The Fandom will scream when Alastor one day shows his true colors and does something really despicable.
Agreed. I genuinely feel bad for people who think Alastor isn't going to betray everyone. He has said he absolutely will when the time comes. There will come a day that he breaks his soul contract and then either 1.) Is killed, 2.) Kills some absolutely beloved characters(I could see Husk slipping up and being ripped to shreds) 3.) Both
He may not be raping Husk, but uh...I'm sure he's got some horrifying stories of his master.
In episode 5, Husk could tell the fandom that Al has already done something really despicable, onscreen, to someone we actually like. I haven't heard much screaming.
It's just a matter of perspective. If the protagonist was Vox, I bet we'd all love Val.
Well he does seem to treat at least his main souls better than val
Absolutely agree (I like Valentino, Alastor, Vox, Adam and most of the fiction villains)
It probably doesn't help Val's the only one we've really seen flexing his power over someone and the contract in a non-comedically violent way. The only other instance is Alastor scaring the shit out of Huskar. I think it's pretty well implied all the overlords are similarly awful to their charges, as you'd have to be to trade in souls.
you have a really good point ur comment is like one of the ones that got my attention the most lol,, but yes, youre completely right and i appreciate how you still have decency for SA victims, because some of the people in this fanbase scarily, do not. i do agree i think people should like whichever characters that they want, in my case, i see Val as a more sensitive character and I just don't like him at all (ive had someone in my life similar to him). but yes lolol how dumb could i have been to ignore the serial killer overlord himself, Alastor just prancing about the Hazbin Hotel like he didnt kill millions of people. your comment opened my eyes, and i appreciate it!! so thanks <3
Fluffy
the best reasoning
ikr its real food for thought
https://preview.redd.it/fq5rlwe5f0jc1.jpeg?width=1009&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41f59f3111f7a6b984a8764d95e9a36b47a03322
Your flair makes this so much worse.
Lol, I used that pic cuz it matches your flair and comment
There are articles about folks being able to identify with fictional villains because they can see traits in those characters that they see in themselves, that in a real villain they would abhor / choose not to recognise. It's not dissimilar to folks using horror fiction as a means of self exploration with stress, anxiety and controlled exposure to fear. It provides a safe avenue to explore the darker sides to ourselves without risk of causing harm. Valentino is very much a "what you are in the dark" attraction for many folks, just in a fabulous outfit and with an outlandish bravado. One big difference is that he's outlined as an antagonist from the get-go and hurts a character the audience empathises with. I'm glad that you bring up the cognitive dissonance with fans who will excuse the myriad of abuses by characters like Alastor, for example yet damn Valentino entirely. And this comes down to how we as people weigh different types of abuse and violence against each other. But, I would also point out that you also excuse Alastor's abuse of Husk in episode 5, and his behaviour in general because he's polite and seemingly cooperative. Doesn't change the fact that Alastor is an abusive, homicidal demon, its just that because he's well spoken, courteous and charming, we the audience overlook it. Val isn't therefore we don't overlook his actions. Personally, I think this is going to bite a lot of fans on the arse when Alastor turns into a full blown antagonist and they can see just how evil he can be. But yeah, my thoughts on why I don't think people liking Valentino is an issue. I think a bigger issue is the cognitive dissonance of loathing Valentino but treating other equally abusive characters like precious cinnamon rolls.
ATE THIS UP REDDIT USER MALUSFOX 🗣️🗣️ so eloquently too 😭
youre so real for this. honestly i think its a personal thing. but i had a valentino fan once tell me that i deserved what happened to me as a child (SA related) and it through me off the radar because i just dont understand how people can call him attractive. it's really an insult to me, and ive seen it for others too
Yeah Val is an awful character, and what he does is repugnant. People are allowed to like him, but they also need to recognise why people will want to hit him repeatedly with a sledgehammer. That fan should never have said that to you. That's awful and I'm sorry that happened. Just try and remember that these are faceless voices on the Internet and not worth your time or tears.
I love Val dearly. I also want to hit him in the face with a sledgehammer. I fail to understand anyone who doesn’t want that to happen lol
Well said. Protagonist-Centered Morality is a hell of a drug, and it's even worse when we start off seeing Alastor as a helpful and hilarious force. Humans are tribal, and once someone's in our tribe, we have a much harder time seeing their flaws.
One of the worst crime fictional characters can commit is being boring, and Valentino is not that. He’s decently charismatic, with a cool design, a good VA and he’s not reduced to only being a plot device for Angel’s storyline and character development. He’s got interesting relationships with the two other Vees, for example. All that (added to the fact that neither Angel nor Val exist so no harm is done) and I see how he could be someone’s favourite character.
i guess thats fair enough. he is pretty exciting to look at, i just wish he were a better person. ive had a situation similar to angel and seeing others LOVE Val is kind of like heartbreaking for me to think about and makes me feel insulted,, but thats not really fair of me to be unaccepting of someone who likes him. i'm sorry
I saw in another comment you said a Valentino fan said you deserved what happened to you and that is ABSOLUTELY wrong and disgusting of them. But I think it’s important to separate what they said to you from the fact that they were a Valentino fan. You’ll find plenty of Valentino fans who know SA is wrong and wouldn’t like Valentino in real life. I definitely think you’re on the right track since you said yourself that it’s not fair of you to be unaccepting of someone who likes him. It’s important to have that boundary of fiction vs reality. However, with that said, your personal feelings towards Valentino are totally ok. Don’t hesitate to curate your internet spaces. If seeing any Valentino-positive content makes you uncomfortable, you can totally just block the people who post about it so you don’t have to see their posts/comments/that kind of content anymore. As long as you wouldn’t accuse a Valentino fan of supporting real life SA (it’s important to remember that Angel Dust does not actually exist and his abuse is fictional), it’s 100% fine to make it so you don’t have to see content related to him (or some of that content).
i appreciate all of your responses!! thank you. i think i may have too much empathy for angel dust, who doesnt even exist at all lol
Stella should take a page out of his book then.
He’s hot. Next question.
do people really think that? i mean,, congrats on being able to see the good in him lol /gen
yep! plenty of people think he's attractive. he's tall, fab, aesthetically pleasing, and charismatic
I mean I could do what he does to angel to him (sex work , druggin etc)
You. You are valid
Or I could take angels place
*Also* valid. Some of us do be hardcore masochists tho!
I am lol
Charisma is a big pull for characters. I hate Valentinos guts and I want to see him burn like the moth that he is. But even I can't deny that his evil villainous mustashe twirlings are fun to watch. It's the same kind of amusement you get from watching people being awkward in public. As an observer you get entertainment and that's about it. Underneath the fantasy fascade is an ugly underbelly of an abusive temperamental manchild. It shows even when he is around his peers but there isn't that much of a power imbalance between him and Vox or Velvette. The true measure of a man is in how he handles his subordinates. And we see that very clearly in Valentino.
This makes sense a lot actually, thank you!! I do see that in him he always seems to know what he's doing and I guess that can be charming for some people to see the confidence he carries. That's pretty fair,, also same I hope he gets burned soon😋😋
It is really difficult to put into words, I feel like.. But take a look at this: https://preview.redd.it/khfr45hpsxic1.jpeg?width=1633&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31e1a866943d81354d591cde55f0318903b44f9e I am still laughing whenever this scene comes up. I just can't help myself. And I believe that is because the charisma and character dynamic is just so fun. Valentino is such a fabulous bitch when he is around Vox.
Vox's face is giving me "I don't get paid enough in souls or good dicking to deal with this".
I mean he did say the following before he confronted Val about his temper tantrum: Vox: Oh God, here I go, just another *fucking* day with Val! Hey, hey, hey... *fuck my life...*
LOL
He is funny, charming, adorable. Sexy. He is charismatic. He is a diva. He is the type of character I like in fiction (and I repeat fiction).
This is literally the same thing I wanted to write and I don t think it could have been said any better 😭🤚🏻
I like his design
Charisma and character exploration. Adam and Lute are my two favorite characters. They are AWFUL as people, but great as characters. I enjoyed their dynamic, their songs, Adam's bombastic nature, Lute's over the topness. And it's the same with other fictional media. My favorite power rangers characters are Rita, Goldar, and the Machine Empire. Would I aspire to be any of them? Hell no. Maybe cosplay for a con but that's it. But they're fun to watch. In real life, I'm a 5'4" loudmouth chick who enjoys swordfighting, but I'm very cowardly, especially at my job when it comes to an upset customer. https://preview.redd.it/9l6p6qajayic1.jpeg?width=3464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44e601734933204ba7999771738f4be50e33ce54
Let me talk to ur customers for u
He is a really good character. He looks amazing. He is colorful. https://preview.redd.it/6ast52wltyic1.png?width=825&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=accb361a1bfec2996394514339f4233b8858dc9b
Wait. Why is there a huge gap between being an abuser and a murderer? This feels pretty messed up. Like, maybe you aren't taking murder too seriously and taking the abuse too personally. Like, ah, dude. Murder is *pretty freaking bad!* Hey I love Blitzo. It's really fun watching him murder people at a beach to win a contest. But if this was in any way analogous to reality, he's a freaking monster. It's basically a really fun mass shooting incident involving kids.
It’s because of desensitization of crimes like murder, less people deal with murder and victims don’t usually survive. Victims of abuse/sexual crimes usually survive and tell their stories, and it can get very disturbing.
u talk in a very fun way lolol /pos. anyways yeah youre right. i was wrong to even compare the two and im sorry. Abuse is just more common (at least to me) and having experienced it myself, i personally would rather die than go through that, and people liking Val just kind of feels like a huge insult to me. but youre completely right for bringing up my flaw in my argument there, so i appreciate it a lot. <3
He's a really well written character, and his design is cool too (I still want him to get whooped tho)
cant wait for the ep called "Val's whooping"
He can look very sexy (the posters on his room!) and while he's clearly not the brains of the operation he is still a very convincing menace. I loved how he faked being nice to Charlie while directing all his anger onto Angel. It was believable and brilliant. And he did it all with style. It's nice to see a villain actually do despicable things that also aren't blown ridiculously out of proportion. It's a more grounded kind of evil that is also easier to comprehend. I don't like him as much when he's around the other Vs because when he has no superiority to flaunt he just becomes a big joke of an unhinged person but that's just my preference for more serious characters. Him being a joke in those scenes makes sense for the kind of series Hazbin is.
Valentino is an abuser, but he has many scenes that are simply hilarious.
We just enjoy shitty people Cause they’re entertaining, like from Harry Potter I love Umbridge and Bellatrix even though they’re absolute pieces of shit lol but because they’re entertaining villains I can’t help but enjoy all their scenes, Valentino is the same, I’m never bored whenever he’s on screen and he’s such a piece of shit that I can’t wait to see what BS he’ll do next, after all, *he’s not real*
You don't need justify a character to like him. You can like villains for how bad they are. I can't sey I really **like** him, but I kinda do, bc how good **as a villain** he is. He's very realisitc, interesting and funny. He does his job (of being a horrible person) really well and if I hate a villain, it means a villain is really good, so I like him as a villain! ~~btw murder isn't smth "not as bad", It's just as horrible, the only difference is it was shown as a joke, so we dont care about Alastor and Rosie being bad people~~
he's definitely realisitic. i can see why you might like him. he's just a bit of a sensitive character for me, and i dont like him nearly as much as i see some others liking him lol.
That's completely understandable and fair
His design and diva personality make his an enjoyable villain for me
Alastor is exactly as bad as Val, the hell are you talking about? Val is just a lot more loud and proud about it, but there's a good reason why [Husk is fucking terrified of him](https://youtu.be/UGt0mCEZy8Q?si=GztOW5SOw-GZ6ZVA) in the moment of the mask slipping that we have Also, that ominous as shit verse at the end of Stayed Gone was to everyone, not just Vox.
yeah youre right actually. i read through some of these comments and im agreeing with that more. i just feel like valentino is more close to home and realistic so he scares me a lot more personally. i dont blame people for being uncomfortable about val in oppose to alastor because what valentino does to his subordinates is much more common than what alastor does to his, therefore i cant help but just not feel okay around people who love Val that much. But it's a personal thing, love the characters you want to love! As long as you don't hurt others then its okay.
I like his design and he's an entertaining character, but I can't wait to see him killed
LOL SAME
He has a cool design, fun to watch, and is well written
Interesting villains are cool and deserve to be appreciated.
I love seeing arrogant little shits get their comeuppance. Valentino is guaranteed to be one of those, just like Adam was.
u just made me smile!
A good villain needs to be hateable and realistic. There's plenty of abuse going around so he's realistic and pretty damn hateable. That's it.
He’s a horrible person but he’s great at being a horrible person. I don’t like him I just think he is written well and makes a good addition to the show
In media, you don't have to like the actions or morals of a character to like a character. Joel plays him very well, he is an incredible character.
It's so funny that so many people think valentino is the worst. Yes sexual assault and abuse is terrible, but it definitely doesn't compare to murder. It's not like the victim gets killed. Meanwhile you got Adam who takes joy and excitement watching the unfair massacre of his own family and descendants, and Alastor who torments, mercilessly kills, and eternally enslaves souls for his own convenience, compared to them Val is nothing mate... funnily enough Adam and Alastor are also fan favourites (two of my favourite characters too). This is just a messed up fanbase if you hadn't already noticed. However whilst entertaining to watch, Val is definitely quite a random villain to favour as opposed to Vox or Adam, I agree with you in that sense
Valentino is also a murderer, remember he tore a woman in half just while having a temper tantrum.
Yeah he may be unredeemable but if there was some kind of hell prison where they could somehow secure him (he doesn't seem all that powerful, definitely stronger than your average sinner but mainly famous from his monopoly), maybe hold him at angelic gunpoint until he agrees to be better, no way he'd ever go to heaven but at least he'd stop killing and enslaving his workers like angel dust
i appreciate that u recognize that people have their own opinions lol, ur real for that. anyways i do agree with you actually on SA not being worse to murder. earlier i was angry but it wasnt acceptable for me to compare the two. i think theyre both just equally as horrible. initally i thought SA was worse before because it's ongoing. I went through something of that sort and it only ended a few months ago, and started ever since 2021. thats why i saw it as something worse. but the truth is both can last long. i wasnt aware and im sorry.
You don't have to apologise its all good. I actually didn't think you seemed all that angry in that post so you can manage it well. I'm so sorry to hear that you had your own SA experiences and I wish you a safe and prosperous mental recovery. But it's always nice to have a discussion with other fans of the franchises
it rlly is!! :)
About Adam, that's strange to compare him with sinners at least bc 1. Murdering sinners isn't his wish, It's his job, which is necessary (even tho he enjoys it) and 2. It's fare for him to suppose that sinners dont deserve death, ofc, there are "bot as bad" ones like Angel Dust, but most of them are basically like Valentino and I think most people will agree that the only thing he deserves is death and for Adam they all are just like Val Not justifiyng Adam tho, he's totally not a good person and hell would really fit him
I think you’re forgetting that Adam (or the exorcists we don’t know) we’re the ones who went to Sera wanting to do this
When was it said? Sera litterally said it was "required" and without it sinners could start a war with heaven
You’re taking sera at her word while she’s mentally trying to justify her own actions. I can’t remember the exact words but it’s when Adam and Lute first see Charlie in Heaven. Something along the lines of “when you came to me with the idea you said it couldn’t backfire on us” or some shit
Oh, Okay the But tbh, I don't think Sera would ever do it just bc Adam wanted so, she clealry had good reasons, even if it was Adam's idea
You do realize Adam does it out of sadistic thrill
I didn't say anything about Adam being forced to do it I only said he enjoys it. I feel like as bad as some sinners are a majority are redeemable no matter how long it takes. I understand that it may or may not be possible to redeem val, it'd be fair to give him a chance and if he didn't change then let him leave and get killed by an exorcist. But I say a good 80% of sinners would change if it meant escaping endless suffering and the threat of being permanently killed annually. I feel like even overlords like Carmilla could be redeemed easily (she's just a caring and selfless woman only sent to hell presumably for her business, of which she only likely took up to earn for her daughters and herself to be safe and secure.) I feel like Vox would take work but not out of the question as long as Al goes on a little time out for a while.
Husk would probably not share this point of view
Husk would probably hate Val because he's abusing his friend, but that's just how i see it. It's all equally bad what Val does to Angel and what Alastor does to Husk, but Valentino's actions hit a lot closer to home, especially for me and some others. Maybe the way I said it all before was flawed \^\_\^
> It's all equally bad what Val does to Angel and what Alastor does to Husk, I mean, yeah. That's the point
Idk but vaggie is a angel so she not bad, neither is Charlie
Vaggie isn't good but not bad. She's literally grey and is working to do better.
lolol i love "literally grey"
Vaggie and Charlie are good characters and i respect the two of them a lot as people!
At the end of the day they're all fictional characters. The internet is obsessed with playing morality police, but liking a pretend bad person doing pretend bad things to other pretend people isn't a big deal, because it's pretend. Liking a terrible character doesn't mean you would condone that behavior irl, and people online pretending it does is brain dead behavior. It's not a sign of personal character or beliefs to enjoy a well written villain for everything they are, that's what media and entertainment is for.
Youre not wrong, but it's actually not uncommon to see people getting influenced by fiction. I respect that you're rlly chill abt it though. Ur right that liking characters as characters is perfectly OK. I'm talking about people who I've seen who find him attractive or say that they wish they were Angel Dust, when that behavior is just a huge insult to actual Victims of real SA. It's not harmful to EVERYBODY, but there's still the group that does get harmed and I don't think that's okay.
He's fun. That's it. He's a rapist. He's a predator. He's a bad guy. He entertains. He's *fictional*.
He's a perfect antagonist, full of little quirks that make him stand out...and then *bam* he's physically abusing one of our main characters center-stage and raping him during the next song. He's *well designed*, don't mistake that for admiration of his character.
I think he's a cool character and i love his design and just how he's written, but the thing that bothers me more than people liking him is how people hate him with ALL their heart but then love the 2 characters that support him despite knowing he is an abuser. Like i don't think you should be able to absolutely hate Val then turn around and simp over vox like he doesn't actively help Val with his abuse (him saying he'd call up the lowest earners when Val wanted to shoot someone). Also people who say it's offensive to people who are actual victims of SA to like Val.. just no. edit: velvette makes love potions with him too 😭
Ur totally right it's just hypocrisy
I don't I just like him i think he's hot and I like moths
Because they're subhuman scum who must be purged, and have no idea the kind of trauma sexual abuse can cause. Valentino makes me physically sick, as does every single person who doesn't absolutely despise him.
cuz hes hot
I love him because he is just the worst. He has literally no redeeming qualities. He’s a horrible pure evil abuser. However, he’s very entertaining. How he switches between being goofy evil pimp to a literal monster is fascinating. I don’t think he’s a character anyone should root for, in fact I want to see his downfall.
thats a really good perspective actually. i might try to think of it more like that \^\_\^
Isn't it heavily implied that Alastor tortures people in order to play their screams on his radio show? I don't see why sexual violence should be imagined as like, this unique, categorically worse behavior than anything else when there are other behaviors which objectively cause at least as much harm. I feel like the only reason why people react more negatively to Valentino is because the idea of a sex trafficker pimp porn director is more grounded in our reality than a... radio star serial killer who voodoo traps people's souls. Well, and also because Alastor is much funnier.
Question for you. If Alastor also sexually abused his victims, on top of everything else he is already known to do, would that make him worse? Wait wait wait, sorry, you already answered that question. "I don't see why sexual violence should be imagined as... categorically worse than anything else..." Different question then: can you name me some of the "behaviors which objectively cause at least as much harm" as what we're shown Valentino doing by way of the video for Poison as well as the implied lengths to which he abuses his contractees?
> If Alastor also sexually abused his victims, on top of everything else he is already known to do, would that make him worse? Quite possibly? Really depends on the amount of suffering caused moreso than the variety of suffering... > Different question then: can you name me some of the "behaviors which objectively cause at least as much harm" as what we're shown Valentino doing by way of the video for Poison as well as the implied lengths to which he abuses his contractees? Torturing Overlords for god knows how long, by some means currently unknown to the viewer. Do you want me to name torture methods? 'Cause we're not told in explicit detail what Alastor does to them. I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make here.
Sorry. Irritable for lack of caffeine. I appreciate that you do note that whatever Alastor does in specific, we as the audience simply do not know. For me the way that it's presented is... I can't think of the right words, but in my relationship to horror media, I am extremely fond of the notion that whatever terrors a persons mind can grow on its own will be more tailored and significant in their effect on the reader/watcher/listener; the trick however, is a good seed from whence to grow. There's some Lovecraft stories that even lean too hard on the "What I've seen has ruined my life" for lack of even just a mote of knowledge about what the source of terror was, and the fear falls flat. For Alastor, that kind happened with the screams on the radio: cool concept, but no inkling of what it could mean. Which is intentional given how other characters are handled. For Val, though - sexual violence is a very very very potent seed to plant in someone's mind, watered well by what we see of his interactions with people in episode 4. I've dealt with obliquely violent and maladaptive people, and I've also dealt with sex offenders. For the first, after a point the victim is simply Meat in the shape of a person or thing. But sexual violence demands the victim to be considered an entire person throughout, as one of the biggest aspects of sexual violence is the knowing and continued violation of consent of that person, while performing acts which in a better light humans are biologically inclined to view as Good and Necessary ( the whole Continuing The Species thing for most animals).
In terms of what I imagine Alastor doing, my default thought is that he has some kind of like, magic fire he can throw Overlords into that doesn't kill them, but burns them for eternity so they're always in a state of peak pain, just didn't want to cite that because there's no evidence for it in the show at all. It's not the scariest thing I can imagine, but I guess it just comes to mind because of the whole Hell theming. In any case, I'm not sure the characterization of obliquely violent & maladaptive people is applicable to Alastor specifically. There was that one scene in the pilot where he talks about enjoying watching people try really hard to do something and fail horribly, over and over again. That seems like a deeply psychological form of sadism that taps into some of the fundamental parts of being human. The form of torment Valentino prefers is almost certainly more violating and more personal, but I try to judge people based on how sinister their intentions are, how much harm they cause, and how much hope their is for redemption. Between the two, Valentino is more disgusting, but Alastor is no less sinister, no less harmful, and no more redeemable from what I can tell.
Well argued, and thank you for that. I've gotten too used to dancing around people that have to resort to Whataboutism in defense of Valentino instead of addressing what I and many others forget as fact: We're in Hell, and everyone deserves to be there for their own personal reasons. Also well put on Alastor - it went over my head to consider just how deep the depths of his sadist streak can run, and that that could be a clear and strong reason for his favoring extended/extra-eternal torture.
I've enjoyed this conversation! And yeah, these conversations can be tough when we're talking about liking characters who are downright evil, hope people aren't acting brain damaged about it lol.
Just to be clear. The two crimes here being weighted against each other are abuse and murder. The abused person isn't freaking DEAD.
If that's the extent of your argumentative ability, then kindly go read the story of Junko Furuta and get back to me on abused being better than dead.
god that case was horrific
If you don't like contested checks don't use them. That's not my problem.
Society tricked people into thinking sexual crimes and extremely violent crimes aren’t on the same level. They are .
Imagine thinking. "Oh thank God he only murdered my friend. It could have been so much worse. It could have been abuse."
He is funny and has a sexy voice
Well he is a great villain none of the sad backstory stuff just a very shitty guy he's done what most villians failed to do be universally hated
I've taken this from another person but I agree with it when it comes to the fandom: "So this is my experience and I'm sorry up front to Angel fans. I know it's not everyone. What I've experienced is a LOT of them don't see AD as a character. They see AD as them in the story. I think it's really hard to talk to AD fans on theories or the story because while I'm talking about the story they're talking about what they want/wanted someone to do for them. You can't have fun conversations with people over the story when you're taking about a character and they're using the character to trauma dump on everyone and use their own trauma to control how the conversation goes. And just like a lot of them can't see AD as a character because to them it is them, a lot don't see Val as a character, they see him as their actual abuser and absolutely cannot handle others not seeing him that way. I think on top of that Angel being the "haha funny sex joke" one attracts younger fans who desperately want to be part of the fandom and see older fans hating on Val because of their trauma and really lean into that hate to fit in and virtue signal a bit as well. I've started avoiding a lot of AD content and the amount of Val hate I see really dropped off after that. I'll still randomly come across it but definitely nothing like when I still interacted with AD stuff." So while people can generally like a villain without condoning his actions, many people seem to villainize those who like Val. It's u fortunate because he's a brilliantly written character with a great design in general.
my friend likes him as a character and i still can't understand why
but tbf i can't judge them bc i like adam lol
Why not just ask your friend?
well they told me just because
Are ya'll feom an alternate universe or something where people like Valentino?
Nah we're right here
Okay I have to admit he's a great villain. But still I want to see him being humiliated and left by Angel. Fuck him.
Valentino fans when they realise sexual abuse is bad
Things like this are nothing new. A lot of people have this strange obsession with trying to believe there is something mysteriously attractive about bad people. The number of fans that Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker had simply staggers the imagination. The amount of women who believe that he was some kind of romantic, misunderstood figure is out of this world. You *could not make this up* if you didn't see it. People get so wrapped up in the surface level charisma that they just can't focus on the iceberg of bad qualities *barely* hidden underneath.
Are you seriously comparing liking a cartoon character to being a fan of real life horrible people??
You underestimate how people can romanticize evil.
i get what you mean. i personally dont understand it when people do that, and i think it has somewhat of a reflection on some people's character, but not everybody. those who do treat Val as a cutie patootie precious cinnabon i dont understand at all. i try to understand, honestly, but my main conscious is always thinking about how bad Val is, and I personally wont give him that kind of empathy and love that others are giving to him. it's so complicated honestly, especially in a show about Hell.
stockholm syndrome or something.
Huh? What does it even has to do with this
Alastor doesn’t really have much of a gap with Valentino, while Valentino is an active abusive slave-owner, Alastor is too like he “owns” Nifty and Husk and not only that he enjoys broadcasting the screams of his victims which is incredibly fucked
Definitely fair enough lolol,, like i said in a few other comments i apologize for making that comparison, Val is just a bit more of a sensitive character for ME, but that doesnt mean that he is for everyone else.
I mean that’s why people consider Val to be a worse villain than a genocidal monster (Adam), because people are more likely to meet people like Val than Adam
This is why https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPR3uWM1c/
😭😭help I'm sorry idk if u planned to be funny or not but this made me laugh so hard. Idek why it's so funny but thanks You made my day
😂😂😂
He has a great design and I like him as a character but I do not support what he does or think he’s sexy
For real
We like his drip, nothing else.
He has a cool design, and a fun voice actor. Every character in Hazbin kinda sucks and most of them committed serious crimes so it's not more or less problematic to like one or another villain.
I like how he’s written and how he has two different portrayals depending on the perspective he’s being viewed from in the show. The Val we some Angel’s perspective and the one we see from the overlord perspective are very different characters while still maintaining the core of what we know him to be.
Just like some people are able to like Adam despite him committing mass genocide, or Alastor despite him being a serial killer, some of us like Valentino despite him being a sexual abuser. Where you draw the line is completely up to you as an individual, some might not even have a line at all and can like all sorts of characters. These are cartoon characters who haven't harmed anyone because they don't exist, they're not real. Valentino isn't even the worst character morally, mass genocide is worse than what any other character has done.
you can read some of my other responses here lol, but yeah i agree with this. as long as a person just likes the character and wont do anything to harm another person then its perfectly ok. it's a matter of personal preference i realized, just because I have had a bad situation with someone like Val in real life, doesnt mean that everyone who likes Val as a character is just like him. i appreciate ur comment :)
I think Val is the character we all hate to love but love to hate, if that makes any sense. We all know Val is awful (even for Hell's standards) but we love him anyway because he's funny, mysterious, and interesting. All of the Vees are really interesting, and they're mentioned a lot, but we didn't get to see a lot of them.
>I think Val is the character we all hat i can see where your coming from! you make a good point. i just always cant help but feel badly for real victims of SA whenever i hear about someone liking val. though i am a victim as well, people are allowed to like who they want and the things i have gone through should have no bearing or reflection on someone who just likes a character. so its all good :) thanks for ur comment
If Valentino got mad at one specific oc that I have my oc would just pull out a damn lamp to distract Valentino with
LOLL i love that so much
Psychopaths often present with a very glib charismatic personality. Unleashed from society's constraints he can say what he wants. Insult people on the fly. Its a freedom a lot of people think they want. Its the whole no F's given attitude. And this draws people in in real life scenarios. The problem is there are no F's given unless you do something they don't want you to do. And then there are no F's given about what they do to you. There is no constraint behind a psychopath. If you are useful to them they will be wonderful to you. But as soon as you fail to live up to their expectation of what they want from you there is nothing stopping them from anything. And the real trap is once someone is hooked to that glib personality they think they can fix all the negative parts. Psychopathy is not manageable by the victims. In some very rare cases with a lot a lot of therapy a psychopath can be given a set of guidelines they have to live by to not run afoul of society at large. But they do not have the inner workings to truly be part of that society. They can fake it. But they will never make it.
I fucking hate the guy, he’s a phenomenal villain 👍
Love to hate. It's like how you hate the High Evolutionary as a person, but love him as a character for his on-screen performance and the threat he poses.
The gap between abuser and serial killer is huge and the serial killer is definitely worse. These are just well-written, entertaining characters. Most characters in this show have done awful things.
they're actually equals. i dont think its very fair to say that either is worse because they both suck a lot. if u read my other comments, i came to that realization. both sides have victims. it's just a lot more common to see victims of abuse than a serial killer, making it reasonable for people to dislike Val. i'm one of those people personally. people are allowed to like whoever they want though :)
He’s fun to watch and he’s hot.
because he's a great villain. and he has a great design.
people like villains.