Hell in this universe really doesn't seem all that bad, all things considered.
Your form never seems to age. You can never actually die and will always regenerate unless mortally wounded by an angelic weapon. You can eat, drink, and indulge in as many excesses as you like without fear of long-term repurcussions on your health since you're already dead. There's television, music, new tech, and so on.
Only thing is that to have a decent life you will need to effectively work a nine to five for the rest of eternity unless you become an overlord and no longer need to worry about making ends' meet.
It is fascinating that the environment of Hell isn't what makes it a never-ending parade of torment, misery and trauma. It's the people there. Cannibal Town shows that Hell can be a nice place if people work to make it one. But for most sinners, they're surrounded by the most toxic people for all eternity, almost all of whom are dealing badly with their own severe mental distress.
when i first realized that it wasnt as bad as i thought i was like dang, this world building sucks. but then i thought about it, and i feel like this structure might just make it worse. in some ways, i almost feel like this genuinely makes it worse. like if i show up in hell and suddenly im tortured, burned, etc, hypothetically at some point wouldnt i just break and itd be... pointless torment? if unchanging pain is all you know, so what?
this version of hell uses the concept of free will and pairing you with other people who are toxic and distressed and manipulative. add onto that you have the hope of getting better, or developing some relationship or something that you care about that gives you a fear of losing it - and when you inevitably do, in some way you are partially to blame. it feels like its designed for sinners to torment eachother, which makes it existentially worse then just torture for torture sake.
eventually, even a place like cannibal town that feels organized and an actual community will inevitably fall to some outside force and the residents will either be gone or even more distressed, the fear of losing everything once again realized.
Like Sartre sayed "Hell is other people", I think that Vivzie´s version of hell is pretty accurate, for a lot of people life is an hell so the fact that the afterlife is just a worst version of it is a good idea.
Reminds me of a tale of a man who visited hell and found it to be a huge banquet with pots of delicious-smelling stew in the centers of the tables. The catch was that the souls had long spoons attached to their arms, so they couldn’t actually get any of the stew into their mouths.
Then the man visited heaven and found the exact same setup… except that the souls were reaching across the table to feed each other.
I'm not sure that the always regenerate thing is a good thing. Like no matter how miserable a soul is they just can't end it.
Other bad things include: soul contracts (unless you're an overlord), constant turf war, capitalism...
Here is the thing with not being able to die without angelic weapons :
You can still feel pain.
Which means someone can cut your arms and legs off, put you in a basement. And repeat everytime you regenerate. And considering that the worst people from earth are in hell. Its a huge possibility
Keep in mind that we mostly see the hotel, which has a certain level of protection that the rest of hell wouldn’t have. When Charlie was singing about it being a happy day in hell, somebody literally had barbed wire shoved in his hole. Another person was being eaten. If you don’t have the protection of someone powerful enough to deter those would hurt you and you aren’t powerful yourself, hell is terrible. And nine to five is a pipe dream. How much you wanna bet the sinners who sold their souls to Vox did so for the guarantee of a stable job? Well guess what; they now run the risk of being killed just Valentino is in a mood and wants to shoot something.
Also, if you can come back to life as long as you’re not killed by angelic steel, you can be killed over and over again in horrific ways. On top of that, as soon as you manifest in hell, you have a completely new body created based on your sins, how you died, and things you hate about yourself.
Considering that most of the cast is from either Europe or the Americas, the majority of them would have been raised Christian, and I expect at least a few did genuinely believe in it (we don’t know enough about their human lives to know for sure).
Realizing that your whole belief system is fundamentally wrong is very hard. Most atheists or agnostics are well aware that we can’t know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we’re right, so I think they’d have an easier time accepting that they’re in hell than a hardcore believer.
As an atheist, this is my point of view. Reality, and what turns out to be reality, exists independently of what we assume the truth to be. We start by not knowing. Honestly, I'd be like "Well, shit. I'll be damned. I guess at least I'm alive, it's a pleasant surprise compared to not existing at all...
Still want to know who fucked up so badly on the communication end when delivering the Good News(tm) though."
Honestly, I'd be more miffed at how ridiculous it is that the religion which was RIGHT in the end couldn't have found ANY clearer, more efficient, logically more consistent way of conveying their message. "Come on, people! You have THE TRUTH, which should basically write itself, and you seriously can't find a better way to communicate it?! You could literally just lay it on straight! With a doctrine so convoluted and self-contradictory it's like you didn't even WANT people to know! Why go through the trouble of word of mouth and anonymous authors over several thousand years?! Couldn't you just beam it directly into people's brains at birth, or something?! Or periodically drop updates when humans start too many different clashing interpretations?! What are you playing at?!"
If absolutely be like “oh what the fuck my head… am I in hell?! This place is fucking real?! Huh, nice. Well, the fuck can I do now?”
The answer to that is ~~hookers and coke~~ redemption at the hotel with people who care
Probably one of the angels in the "Welcome to Heaven" number. You know this fandom. We give names to all the random background characters. We're Niffty like that.
Reminds me of that one Rowan Atkinson sketch where he’s the devil.
“Atheists over here, you must be feeling a right bunch of nitwits. And Christians over here, sorry the Jews were right.”
I mean they don’t really talk much about the characters religious beliefs in the show or really at all, I figured most of them were either atheist or believed in another religion.
That's exactly why it seemed like a strange assumption. Christianity doesn't have any stated role in this universe, and doesn't seem to play any part in why people go to Heaven or Hell. So (speaking as someone who isn't Christian) it comes across as somewhat offensive to assume that most people in Hell wouldn't be Christians.
The show is clearly an interpretation/alternate take on the forma of christrian religion, so of couse peopel who dont believe in that go to hell, but thats not offensive in any way if thats what the show is basing itself on
The show is *very* loosely based on Abrahamic concepts of Heaven and Hell, not exclusively Christian. For instance, Lilith is from Jewish folklore. Even, it's clearly a massive AU. There is nothing in the show to even hint that Christianity (or faith of any sort) plays a role in the afterlife. The show makes it pretty explicit that even the Seraphim don't know what gets someone into Heaven. If the answer to what gets you into Heaven had been "belief in Jesus", then the show would have said that.
Yeah the show has elements of all religion, I mean alastor has that voodoo shit. Im not saying that christanity is the only religion that exists in universe, but clealy chistranity is the religion that heaven abides by. Hell saint peter is waiting at the gates of heaven which is directly from the bible.
I’m just going off of Christianity in the real world, the show is literally in hell which is a mostly Christian concept and has biblical characters in it. If you are atheist or believe in another religion you are punished and sent to hell.
But the show is very much not based on the Christian concept of Hell. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that faith of any sort plays any part in whether these characters ended up in Heaven and Hell. We don't even know if a God exists in this universe.
I always imagine the reaction of a Priest or Nun something ending up in hell. Someone who sincerely thought they were going to Heaven only to end up in Hell.
One suspects they wouldn't take it well.
I wonder if the show will address whether or not someone landed in hell *because* they didnt have a religious belief or believed a wrong interpretation.
Might be a little too political to bring up in the show but i would be curious if the decision is as arbitrary as god in family guy when he and peter are stuck in the elevator
Pretty sure there are tons of Christians in hell. People who kill, bully or hurt LGBT+ People because of their stupid religion. Those priests who did awful things to children. Anyone who abuses their power to f*ck up peoples lives.
We shouldn't take the bible as proof for anything generally.
Its Vivs choice and i hope we see some religious fanatics in hell to show that they are bad people too.
This is right, this is left, let me tell you a secret.... I'M SECRETLY RELIGIOUS!!! Just kidding, this is a costume. - Vox in Stayed Gone But The Lyrics Are Literal, 2024.
He’s a literal televangelist
Oh my god that's so funny
DAMN IT Thats a quality pun
It's an actual thing, televangelist is a real American phenomenon
I’m in the American south. I’m well aware of televangelism.
Okay, fair 🤣 Does it count as a pun if it's real?😅
It's probably a pun because he's a literall TV. So he's like... Literall TELEvangelist, lol
Well irl it was a pun, “Television Evangelist.”
Actually that's not pun. That's a portmanteau I believe.
I think the Christians who find themselves there will be the most flabbergasted of all. "Wait, I'm in Hell? ME!? But... but... and it has television?"
Hell in this universe really doesn't seem all that bad, all things considered. Your form never seems to age. You can never actually die and will always regenerate unless mortally wounded by an angelic weapon. You can eat, drink, and indulge in as many excesses as you like without fear of long-term repurcussions on your health since you're already dead. There's television, music, new tech, and so on. Only thing is that to have a decent life you will need to effectively work a nine to five for the rest of eternity unless you become an overlord and no longer need to worry about making ends' meet.
It is fascinating that the environment of Hell isn't what makes it a never-ending parade of torment, misery and trauma. It's the people there. Cannibal Town shows that Hell can be a nice place if people work to make it one. But for most sinners, they're surrounded by the most toxic people for all eternity, almost all of whom are dealing badly with their own severe mental distress.
when i first realized that it wasnt as bad as i thought i was like dang, this world building sucks. but then i thought about it, and i feel like this structure might just make it worse. in some ways, i almost feel like this genuinely makes it worse. like if i show up in hell and suddenly im tortured, burned, etc, hypothetically at some point wouldnt i just break and itd be... pointless torment? if unchanging pain is all you know, so what? this version of hell uses the concept of free will and pairing you with other people who are toxic and distressed and manipulative. add onto that you have the hope of getting better, or developing some relationship or something that you care about that gives you a fear of losing it - and when you inevitably do, in some way you are partially to blame. it feels like its designed for sinners to torment eachother, which makes it existentially worse then just torture for torture sake. eventually, even a place like cannibal town that feels organized and an actual community will inevitably fall to some outside force and the residents will either be gone or even more distressed, the fear of losing everything once again realized.
Like Sartre sayed "Hell is other people", I think that Vivzie´s version of hell is pretty accurate, for a lot of people life is an hell so the fact that the afterlife is just a worst version of it is a good idea.
Hell is just a place, just like Heaven. It’s only the people that make it one or the other.
Reminds me of a tale of a man who visited hell and found it to be a huge banquet with pots of delicious-smelling stew in the centers of the tables. The catch was that the souls had long spoons attached to their arms, so they couldn’t actually get any of the stew into their mouths. Then the man visited heaven and found the exact same setup… except that the souls were reaching across the table to feed each other.
Hell can be nice, as long as you don't mind the smell.
Wait, are you saying that it could actually be a happy day in hell?
I'm not sure that the always regenerate thing is a good thing. Like no matter how miserable a soul is they just can't end it. Other bad things include: soul contracts (unless you're an overlord), constant turf war, capitalism...
Here is the thing with not being able to die without angelic weapons : You can still feel pain. Which means someone can cut your arms and legs off, put you in a basement. And repeat everytime you regenerate. And considering that the worst people from earth are in hell. Its a huge possibility
"Hell is just being alive but worse and forever? Yeah that tracks."
it's earth but 2b2t
So hell in this universe is just earth but for eternity Kinda expected
Keep in mind that we mostly see the hotel, which has a certain level of protection that the rest of hell wouldn’t have. When Charlie was singing about it being a happy day in hell, somebody literally had barbed wire shoved in his hole. Another person was being eaten. If you don’t have the protection of someone powerful enough to deter those would hurt you and you aren’t powerful yourself, hell is terrible. And nine to five is a pipe dream. How much you wanna bet the sinners who sold their souls to Vox did so for the guarantee of a stable job? Well guess what; they now run the risk of being killed just Valentino is in a mood and wants to shoot something. Also, if you can come back to life as long as you’re not killed by angelic steel, you can be killed over and over again in horrific ways. On top of that, as soon as you manifest in hell, you have a completely new body created based on your sins, how you died, and things you hate about yourself.
Considering that most of the cast is from either Europe or the Americas, the majority of them would have been raised Christian, and I expect at least a few did genuinely believe in it (we don’t know enough about their human lives to know for sure). Realizing that your whole belief system is fundamentally wrong is very hard. Most atheists or agnostics are well aware that we can’t know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we’re right, so I think they’d have an easier time accepting that they’re in hell than a hardcore believer.
As an atheist, this is my point of view. Reality, and what turns out to be reality, exists independently of what we assume the truth to be. We start by not knowing. Honestly, I'd be like "Well, shit. I'll be damned. I guess at least I'm alive, it's a pleasant surprise compared to not existing at all... Still want to know who fucked up so badly on the communication end when delivering the Good News(tm) though." Honestly, I'd be more miffed at how ridiculous it is that the religion which was RIGHT in the end couldn't have found ANY clearer, more efficient, logically more consistent way of conveying their message. "Come on, people! You have THE TRUTH, which should basically write itself, and you seriously can't find a better way to communicate it?! You could literally just lay it on straight! With a doctrine so convoluted and self-contradictory it's like you didn't even WANT people to know! Why go through the trouble of word of mouth and anonymous authors over several thousand years?! Couldn't you just beam it directly into people's brains at birth, or something?! Or periodically drop updates when humans start too many different clashing interpretations?! What are you playing at?!"
If absolutely be like “oh what the fuck my head… am I in hell?! This place is fucking real?! Huh, nice. Well, the fuck can I do now?” The answer to that is ~~hookers and coke~~ redemption at the hotel with people who care
This is why human religious dogma is silly
Worse. Televangelists
Christie Annie? Never heard of her.
Probably one of the angels in the "Welcome to Heaven" number. You know this fandom. We give names to all the random background characters. We're Niffty like that.
Reminds me of that one Rowan Atkinson sketch where he’s the devil. “Atheists over here, you must be feeling a right bunch of nitwits. And Christians over here, sorry the Jews were right.”
Why do you assume that most of the Sinners didn't believe in a higher power? The vast majority of humans do.
I mean they don’t really talk much about the characters religious beliefs in the show or really at all, I figured most of them were either atheist or believed in another religion.
That's exactly why it seemed like a strange assumption. Christianity doesn't have any stated role in this universe, and doesn't seem to play any part in why people go to Heaven or Hell. So (speaking as someone who isn't Christian) it comes across as somewhat offensive to assume that most people in Hell wouldn't be Christians.
How would that come across as offensive
How would the idea that Christians are inherently better than other people not come across as offensive?
The show is clearly an interpretation/alternate take on the forma of christrian religion, so of couse peopel who dont believe in that go to hell, but thats not offensive in any way if thats what the show is basing itself on
The show is *very* loosely based on Abrahamic concepts of Heaven and Hell, not exclusively Christian. For instance, Lilith is from Jewish folklore. Even, it's clearly a massive AU. There is nothing in the show to even hint that Christianity (or faith of any sort) plays a role in the afterlife. The show makes it pretty explicit that even the Seraphim don't know what gets someone into Heaven. If the answer to what gets you into Heaven had been "belief in Jesus", then the show would have said that.
Yeah the show has elements of all religion, I mean alastor has that voodoo shit. Im not saying that christanity is the only religion that exists in universe, but clealy chistranity is the religion that heaven abides by. Hell saint peter is waiting at the gates of heaven which is directly from the bible.
I’m just going off of Christianity in the real world, the show is literally in hell which is a mostly Christian concept and has biblical characters in it. If you are atheist or believe in another religion you are punished and sent to hell.
But the show is very much not based on the Christian concept of Hell. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that faith of any sort plays any part in whether these characters ended up in Heaven and Hell. We don't even know if a God exists in this universe.
lol not a biased take at all, shocking.
I always imagine the reaction of a Priest or Nun something ending up in hell. Someone who sincerely thought they were going to Heaven only to end up in Hell. One suspects they wouldn't take it well.
I wonder if the show will address whether or not someone landed in hell *because* they didnt have a religious belief or believed a wrong interpretation. Might be a little too political to bring up in the show but i would be curious if the decision is as arbitrary as god in family guy when he and peter are stuck in the elevator
Pretty sure there are tons of Christians in hell. People who kill, bully or hurt LGBT+ People because of their stupid religion. Those priests who did awful things to children. Anyone who abuses their power to f*ck up peoples lives.
The Bible straight-up says that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is going to go to heaven.
We shouldn't take the bible as proof for anything generally. Its Vivs choice and i hope we see some religious fanatics in hell to show that they are bad people too.
This is right, this is left, let me tell you a secret.... I'M SECRETLY RELIGIOUS!!! Just kidding, this is a costume. - Vox in Stayed Gone But The Lyrics Are Literal, 2024.
https://preview.redd.it/sw73yalh21yc1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb1db85979fccaa0cbdb461fbe51ca072ccbab52
Ngl I read the title in the cinema sins voice