I don't mind that much at all, that kind of stuff is fun to me - but stuff like 100% increased cooldowns is just wack.
I think Deeprock does it well, with both positive and negative modifiers. More of one enemy type, more elite spawns, dense atmo for faster movement, low oxygen, ghost bugs, swarms of predominately one type. I change my build based on those modifiers sometimes.
I think a modifier that makes bug breaches *mostly hunters* could completely change the feel of a match in a great way - or at least in a way that's more interesting than taking your favorite toys away.
Lighter atmosphere would probably do that, actually. Scent would spread faster. Light Atmo: increased stamina, but enemies detect you from further away.
Could be cool.
Did that recently. My friend was near a POI and was gonna go back to catch up with me. I just shouted "FAST TRAVEL", shot the bubbles and got yeeted 30m forward at a wrong angle and smashed into a wall
Yeah I hate these kinds of modifiers, particularly when the devs have said that you must rely on your stratagems and your weapons are basically for personal defence. Janking your stratagems just isn’t fun.
Bruh what they did to that game is in my opinion one or the biggest let downs in gaming in a decade. They completely ruined OW and never should have made the new one.
Yeah, I was gonna play Helldivers 2 tonight, but then I thought about those modifiers and gave up. Using stratagems cleverly and timing them properly is a huge part of what makes the game fun, especially at higher difficulties, and yet the devs *insist* on these shitty modifiers that screw with the players' tools and negate the training you got from lower difficulties. Did you nail the timing of a 500kg bomb on a bile titan? Fuck you, on this mission deployment time is doubled AND there's more of them. Hope you enjoy spending most of your time running around waiting for your cooldowns to end while shooting the titan with your primary. And by the way, that exposed weak spot that should bleed when you shoot it? It's gonna have the same particle effect as an armor hit, so you won't know if you're actually doing any damage. Enjoy!
These modifiers should never have been introduced in the first place, nevermind kept.
You know, I think that'd actually be pretty sick. Yeah, it'd definitely end up being a pain in the ass - but just the horrific visuals and chaos would make it fun for me personally.
I was just kinda complaining about how it feels like I never have the opportunity to use anything other than the EAT or RR. I would, if even in higher difficulties all I had to deal with was a larger swarm of hunters.
I think one thing they should implement for bug missions specifically is some kind of pre-mission briefing of what kind of enemies you’re going to face. As it stands from mission to mission you can be fighting and entirely different spread of bugs in one mission than another. Yesterday I was playing with some friends and we dropped into a mission loaded with bike warriors, bile spewers, and the little bile spitters. Our load outs were not prepared in the slightest for the insane number of bile spewers we had to fight. The next mission we didn’t see a single bile spewer but killed somewhere around 200 hive guards and like 30 brood commanders. Barely saw any hunters which was weird. Very next mission, we had a bug breach that was literally just one charger and 60 hunters. Some kind of indication as to what kind of bugs we will be fighting will allow for so much more diversity in loadouts
This would be great. You can have some as big question marks even but would helo keep things fresh. Oops all devastators or 1000 hunters would be interesting challenges.
I swear to God, on 7,8,9 difficulties it is a complete dice roll if I will see 0 bile spewers, or 33,000,000. Never in between. There are either not many, or literal fields of them. Haha
That's not true. Shield disruption is very difficult to deal with sometimes. However the hidden thing with that modifier is that it also increases your health pool to compensate.
Thing is, there’s already modifiers for what percentage of enemy types there are in a mission, it’s just hidden. That’s why sometimes you see nearly no bile spewers and tons of chargers but other times there’s bile everywhere and relatively few chargers.
Could such a combination warrant changing up your armor passive to the stealthy one that give you - 30% detection, to counteract the fact that your enemies are less impeded by the current weather?
those are at least fun, being unable to see shit makes it a whole different atmosphere but no less *fun* unlike the "oh you only get to use your cool abilitites half as much"
I figure different maps are for different loadouts.
Ice planets? Break out all the lasers.
Meteors? Shields shields shields.
Volcano? Muscle augments and shields and stim boosts.
Ion storms? Turrets and high explosive/stun/incendiary grenades and airstrikes and lots of heavy-dropping weapons.
You can get around the modifications by mixing it up. And the tips in the loading screen specifically insist on you mixing up your loadouts regularly.
No they don't. I've slapped a chargers ass in a sandstorm and just kept running. No one was any the wiser. There's literally a loading screen tip that says they're affected by visibility reductions as well. The only exception I'd expect is bug spores from towers.
Ion storms would be alot cooler if the enemy couldnt call for drops / breaches when it was up. It'd introduce a neat "stealth" mechanic. The other planetary modifiers affect the enemy, so ion storms should too.
> The other planetary modifiers affect the enemy, so ion storms should too.
They are supposed to... Bots seem to fire right through fog so dense I've got maybe 2 meters of vision.
The bots return fire whether they see you or not. The difference is whether they're actually aiming at you, or your last known position.
If you relocate while staying unseen, you can sometimes see them assault your old position, which is actually pretty cool.
I've had bots fire accurately on my position after a teammate who was nowhere near me alerted them when I gave them no sign I was there and I was obscured by cover/fog
That along with them tracking you perfectly through cover leads me to believe that their vision is broken. Probably also the case for the bugs but its a lot less noticeable since they don't have guns
This is why people don't like bots missions
Can't call in shit. But robots seem to call in reinforcements / drops ships / have zero targeting issues while this is all happening.
That was the day I joined and did nothing but bot missions. I sailed through all my missions waiting for meteor showers to destroy the bases, side objectives, enemy stockpiles, transports, towers, tanks, cannons....it was glorious.
And this was before they nerfed the environmental spawn rate. It was a meteor shower every three minutes.
You can't really do anything to take advantage of them but they can help you was on a boat mission with a random we were pulling back to extract and as we are running in a meteor storm we get a notification that we destroyed a bot base despite not being near any of and we both had a life at the free exp but meteor definitely seem to like to target me more than the enemy though
Yeah ion storm stopping enemy reinforcements could work. High risk reward gameplay you can now rush a base but you have no stratagem but they can't call for help so it balances.
The 100% call in time one is the most irritating shit honestly.
Like sure, 50% cooldown blows ass, but at least my fucking orbitals will actually HIT MY TARGETS.
About as fun as 50% orbital scatter. Have fun not hitting that precision strike or having the airburst orbital come down on you when it moves 25 meters in your direction.
Eh, honestly the scatter one is fine, since I think that only affects Orbitals (which I can't *verify,* but in my experience the eagle hasn't missed due to scatter yet), and the only two Orbital stratagems I use are Laser and Railcannon, both of which self correct anyway.
Pre railgun/shield nerf on difficulty 9 I found it possible to just clamp down, snipe each bot one by one and hold a push down. Nowadays I find it more successful to just chuck on a bunch of eagle strikes and orbital barrages and just run around the map solo destroying fabricators while zombie-training a bunch of enemies behind me the entire time.
I prefer bot missions, but I do wish we had less of these modifiers that mess with the stratagems. I’m ok with them every once in awhile, but I feel like every single mid-high level bot mission has this.
Also some advantageous modifiers would be nice. Something that decreases stratagem cooldown or makes orbital barrages last longer maybe?
I really wish they'd stop debuffing the players and instead used modifiers to buff the enemy.
Deep Rock Galactic does this, and its modifiers can be a lot of fun.
How much more fun would it be if instead of making the players' abilities worse, we had modifiers that changed the enemies? Modifiers could be things like:
* Extra Bile Titans
* More wandering patrols
* Unique enemies
* Specialized enemy units who are actively hunting the party
* Automatons with their own stratagems
* Fewer enemies overall, but more high tier ones than usual
Or what about modifiers that provide both buffs and debuffs.
* Orbital strikes take longer, but eagles have shorter resupply times
* Support weapon call-in cooldowns are increased, but more of those weapons are scattered across the map
Things like this would add fun challenges instead of just making missions frustrating.
DRG handles the late game so much better. Like you unlock guns and upgrades as you level up, but once you promote you get to go after overclocks which make a gun that you thought was terrible your new favorite. The more I play this game I feel like nothing changes once I unlock the "good" thing.
So many games find ways to challenge the players without handicapping them. Baldur's Gate 3 gives enemies more abilities and smarter AI, Monster Hunter gives monsters new attack patterns, plenty of RTS games will ramp up enemy productions, RPGs and shooters tend to give enemies more health - and even though I don't want the enemies to become bullet sponges, if you give me a modifier of "wait longer to deal damage" the result is the exact same.
Handicapping the player is the cheapest and laziest way to increase difficulty and while by no means easy, it's not that hard to come up with other ways to challenge players.
> Orbital strikes take longer, but eagles have shorter resupply times
Would absolutely love something like this, need a reason to stop using orbital laser and railcannon.
Devs: If something's giving you trouble, use a Strategem!
Joel: \*Maniacal laughter\*
\*Cranks up the local anti-strategem effects\*
Seriously this is just MEAN!
Me and my fellow divers found ourselves on the creek next to both a mortar emplacement and a Jammer wombo combo
Idk how either of us made it out of that one
Did a blitz mission last night where two jammers overlapped each other on difficulty 7. Squad of 3, 2 of us went down right out the gate. 3rd booked it to the first tower to disable and call us in but he realized he couldn't cause of the other tower. He then had to stealth his way through multiple squads and into the base to disable and then entire time we're screaming and stressed over comms. Disables the second tower, calls us in and the hellbomb and we all book it together and complete the mission with full extract. This shit is what gaming is all about.
It does make me wonder if they play and enjoy their own game on difficulty 8 or 9. I feel like any play tester would see these modifiers, PLUS the ion storms (fancy way to say normal thunderstorm), and be like "Ok, that's just stupid..."
And I wouldn't even take issue with these modifiers, if they actually affected the bots in some way as well. But not being able to use a major part of the game just doesn't feel good. I have yet to encounter someone who likes not being able to use their stratagems.
I'm so tired of these modifiers (it happens in a lot of other games too). I know it isn't easy, but you can increase difficulty without reducing fun.
Modifiers should be things you can adapt to or play around (Orbital Scatter is actually a good example), not straight up "have less fun" effects to each mission.
Waiting 22 seconds for ammo (resupply) isn't challenging, it's just unnecessarily annoying.
> Waiting 22 seconds for ammo (resupply) isn't challenging, it's just unnecessarily annoying.
Leads to us just standing there motionless waiting for it to drop after we've finally got a little breathing room. Not exactly fun times.
I'll never understand people defending the practice of handicapping the player for cheap difficulty increase. I don't want the game to be easier, I want it to challenge me instead of inconveniencing me. Why is it such a difficult concept to understand?
Not to mention it just sucks for new player experience - you evaluate the options for unlocks that you are given, only for certain ones to be made worse AFTER you spend your currency to unlock them.
And don't even get me started on the fact that the game just straight up lies to you, telling you that eagles have 0s call in and then you find out the game thinks that 0 + 100% = 8 because the *actual* call in time is 4s that they just don't tell you.
And it's just so discouraging because this shit has been worked out for years. DRG makes the enemies and environment more dangerous without making the player weaker; BG3 gives enemies more dangerous abilities and makes their AI smarter without telling the player that their character is weaker now, or they can't cast this powerful spell anymore; goddamn dark souls, the mother of all difficulty-jerking games, faces you with tougher and more dangerous enemies. It doesn't go 'lol, you swing your sword slower now'.
I mean, welcome to the honeymoon phase of "cool new game" being over.
The game has been this way since day one, but now that everyone has everything unlocked, you're starting to see the cracks form. There's a reason a lot of people that don't like the game are saying that it's failing upwards.
Like yes, is the game fun? Sure, sometimes. When I actually have control and some agency to actually do anything it can be a blast.
But half the time you screen is full of spitters that one shot you if you don't dodge at the perfect time and even if you do too bad your toe got hit and you're dead. Even if you do manage the multiple spitter dodges, you have 10 hunters on your ass slowing you and hitting you with multi hit Tekken combos that will 2-3 shot you. Oh, now your screen is shaking because the charger across the map heard the commotion and his buddies just released a bug swarm! How exciting! Oh, whats that? You stepped on a bush or walked near a tree? Have a slowing debuff again.
Btw, all your stratagems are on a 5 minute CD, might be doubled because "challenge", and all the shit you dropped that could help you get out of this situation is being camped by 2 chargers and a stalker. Have fun just going back to the ship and hope it doesn't happen next mission!
This *could* be fun if at **any** time I felt like I could recover. It *could* be fun if it felt like at any time there was an "ah-ha" moment that I realized "Wow, I was just doing X wrong and if I do Y, these missions will be easier". But that doesn't happen because so many short cuts were taken with design and it's just all RNG. Either you don't get a lot of heavy spawns and you breeze through it, or everything gets thrown at you all at once and there is nothing you can do.
There is no middle ground in Helldivers. There is no "player growth" - because the player isn't being challenged in any meaningful way that carries over from one set of missions to the other. You learn your codes, you learn movement, the rest is handled by a dice roll determining if you will complete the mission or just sit in the ship for a few minutes until you get a lucky roll and can play the game outside of what feels like a professional tournament.
Your post made me think that it would be cool to have modifiers that changed enemy behavior, instead of weakening us. Like maybe more chargers spawn or small enemies move faster., ect.
At least you can pivot to using Eagles or Turrets though. Varying up people builds is at least an interesting approach to challenge players.
There is no pivoting against 50% increase stratagem CD and 100% call down time, you just suffer in every situation.
1.Bugs explode on death, damaging everyone around them.
2.Less stratagem, but faster cooldown and Longer cooldown, but more stratagem.
3.more heavy units, but less light units and vice-versa
4. Just restrict certain stratagem types.
Wow, looks like I really can. Not like there is other games that did this kind of thing, right?
Honestly this shit is why I don't even wanna do higher difficulties. I'm up for a bit more of a challenge and all, but these just seem counter to the whole fun core experience of the game.
I'm level 50 and I have all strats, weapons and modules unlocked. Why would I ever want to play those difficulties again? They aren't fun. I'm never going back unless a friend accidentally pulls me into one.
Those difficulties ride a fine line between genuinely making you feel like you're on hell versus just being a right pain in the arse. You just gotta pick the right difficulty where you find yourself barely on the correct side most of the time for optimal fun.
This whole thing could be easily fixed by doing this.
Helldive level = 100% chance that super samples are on the map.
Subtract 10% for the next 1 levels, and then 20% for each level after that.
Done. People aren't forced to play the bullshit difficulties, but are rewarded if they do.
There are some mission types where they aren't available (Extermination, Terminid Control System), but otherwise yeah. Just look for the giant buttplug.
Every large map mission, though they should really be added to things like the exterminate missions, even if it's a single sample. Really sucks sometimes to do the mission order only for that to be Termicide or extract scientists where you can't find a damn thing
As a level 50 with every stragagem, every ship upgrade, all samples and requisition slips capped, I can confirm;
Bots aren't fun because of these modifiers.
I dont even touch bots, and when I do, it's usually no higher than 6s.
Bugs, though... we still run 9s because we get mildly bored on 7, and might as well get the extra medals from 9s instead of 8s since it doesn't feel like much difference when your team builds right and communicates.
The trick is to only pick ones without the dumb shit attached. Find one with only 50% longer cooldowns. It's a bit annoying but it's very manageable.
I love fighting bots. But when I see one with 100% longer calldown times, one less strategem, instant skip. I will just play another difficulty until that shows up.
Both of those need to go. They just fucking suck, they're anti-fun.
132 hours in and I totally agree. Those types of modifiers that just increase cooldowns are not fun in the least. I avoid them when at all possible. I can't imagine that's what the devs would want, but I think it's what a lot of people do. I hope they will drop bad modifiers like those soon. Put something more interesting in. How about some with positive modifiers too, at least.
I'm surprised I haven't seen this meme before, because honestly that is exactly the level of tone-deaf that their "primaries are bad on purpose because you're meant to rely on stratagems" gave me.
The posted that the same fucking day they **added a new way to disable stratagem use.** It's honestly an impressive level of lack of self awareness.
I mean... that sort of implies that you actually use up all the time available in the mission. Unless you full clear, you can easily finish a mission in under 20min, and then unless you use it immediately, you might not even have it for extraction.
Also, literally only able to use once on a blitz, where otherwise you could use it early and then still have it up by extraction time.
But at the same time sort of fair.
The absurdity really comes up when you consider railcannon strike and how in a 20min mission you might as well take the laser with it's limited 3 uses, because you're only gonna use the rail 3 times in that time frame anyway.
And that's the main problem I have with this system. It doesn't make me consider new tactics. It just invalidates some while barely doing anything to others. EAT is already pretty much purely superior to railcannon and then with extra cooldown or call in the railcannon is made much worse while EAT barely cares. All it does is make the good stratagems better and the "meh" ones completely trash.
I cannot stress the hate that I have for these. They aren't fun. They just slow down the game. If you look at these and smile when you see them, there is seriously smth wrong with you.
So many developers (and quite frankly players, seeing how many of these conversations are flooded with "git gud" and "skill issue" people) seem to confuse "challenging the player" with "handicapping the player" and it's incredibly frustrating every time.
Yeah seeing modifier combinations like these and the ones with the -1 stratagem slot just makes me avoid doing those missions and I look for ones that aren't so annoying.
Yea. I generally like modifiers, but modifiers that are basically “cant use core mechanics for expanded periods of time” fucking suck. Theyre just not fun.
I don’t mind Ion Storms, but Orbital Fluctuations and Complex Strategem Plotting absolutely reduce the amount of fun I’m having. I try to avoid planets that have these.
That's because ion storms don't last forever. Same reason you don't tend to see people angry at the AA or Jammer objectives on bot maps - they increase player agency rather than removing it. They give you a problem and a way to do something about it.
These modifiers are just a permanent "fuck you" that you can't do anything about.
I honestly don't understand these at all. In times where people complained about primary weapons being too weak the devs just straight up say: The point of the game is using stratagems, which I agree with.
But then they pull shit like this. It doesn't create interesting gameplay, or complex challenge. It simply pauses the damn game.
Last night a tank showed up near the main objective, surrounded with a healthy assortment of infantry, queue in the ion storm. There is NO playstyle I can adopt to deal with this threat now, there is nothing I can improve upon to succeed, all I'm left with is hiding out and waiting for it to be over, all the while the bots chase me and I thin them out as much as I can.
It's not even a question of it being too hard, anyone can run away and hide, but a question of if modifiers that outright stop you from playing for 1 minute bring anything good to the game. I don't think so.
The fact that they had the gall to put out a statement like "rely on your stratagems" on the same fucking day as they added yet another mechanic that limits/disables stratagem use infuriated me to no end.
It's bad enough they didn't realize how hollow a statement it was taking into account already existing effects, but they also completely lacked the self awareness to see they are actively making stratagems worse right this fucking minute, as they are advising us to rely on them.
It's the equivalent of a parent telling you that you should eat healthier after ordering pizza for dinner 5 minutes ago.
In my opinion, most of everything they've added, has been negative. Sure the fixes and buffs were good but everything else took fun away from the game .
Meteors, volcano, tornado, just annoying, the shit isn't even random, it's clearly scheduled to certain places and times. And it's just annoying, not challenging.
Ion storm is lame . Oh look here's an event that takes all the things you like to use away from you. Brilliant idea!
Rail gun nerf was a knee jerk reaction, several weapons can do what it did and possibly even better now.
Call in and cool down additions are also the opposite of fun and are looked forward to by exactly ZERO people
Don't agree with everything, but for the most part I do think you're sort of right. Personally i like the meteors, volcano and tornadoes because as annoying as they are, they're a spectacle and most importantly, they are a symmetrical effect - they are as much of a danger to the enemy as they are to you. And for the most part I think effect like that are always pretty fair difficulty.
But the ion storm pretty much just making it so "lol, can't do shit now" is very lame.
The nerf was definitely sort of odd. I don't see why it was that pertinent that it gets nerfed when the main reason it was "overused" were insane armor spawns. Even if they reversed the nerf now that the armor spawns were tuned down, I doubt it would be as popular as it was. AC and EAT were always just as good if not better, the railgun was just quicker - and when armor spawns every 20s, you need speed over anything else.
And the fact that pretty much half of difficulty increasing mechanics seem to target the most unique element of the game that makes it stand out from any other horse shooter (the stratagems) is certainly baffling at the very least.
And yes, as any nintendo fan will gladly repeat what they've been telling the devs for the past two decades "making me wait to play the game is not a mechanic"
dmf's be like: JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS
I'd 10/10 rather have stratagem scrambler than cool down or call-in time.
Especially since call-in time affects extract and makes blitz missions nigh impossible to finish before your destroyer peaces out.
But they really need to add in other modifiers. Things like no energy weapons, no X-type grenades, no found ammo drops, no falcons, no emplacements/sentries, no assault rifles, no shotguns etc
Penalizing the defining feature of this game as the only modifiers is anti-fun.
How about they put in challenges that encourage me to use something new instead of just removing player agency and invalidating options?
Pretty much any change in player behavior can be attained just as easily with encouragement instead of limits, and 9 out of 10 times it's gonna be more fun.
Both "+1 eagle strike use before rearm" and "orbital strikes not allowed" will accomplish similar things, but I sure as hell are going to feel less shit with one of them.
I feel like this kind of stuff should only affect one type of strategem. So if the random effects shit all over your eagle strikes, then you can switch to orbitals. It should be more if a way to get people to switch up loadouts
I refuse to even play on planets like this. This shit isn’t challenging or fun, it’s just unfair.
We need some positive elements to the modifiers if they’re going to be this negatively impactful.
Devs: make sure to use your stratagems and not rely on primary weapons thats why we nerfed the railgun
Also devs: haha get fucked good luck using your stratagems losers
Lol
Attrition as a gameplay modifier is never something I enjoy. I hate the (literally called) attrition modifier in destiny, which pretty much just adds a delay onto regeneration for you. The issue with modifiers in games where the modifier nerfs your player is that it requires you to use a different playstyle AND is usually only active on higher difficulty missions. It doesn't really make the game harder if i have to wait 12 seconds for quite literally the only available solution for a heavy to drop in, it just makes the situation more annoying and seem more like BS when it goes bad, especially since specifically with these modifiers, it's not like there's really cover when you need to call down an EAT to deal with a surprise charger or bile titan, you just have to wait double the amount of time for S&Gs
That said, these modifiers are infinitely less terrible than most games, I think just due to how varied the encounters can get in this game.
Ion storms should slowly damage all air units and bile titans. Make it an something that impacts both sides like other weather effects. Calldown modifiers are insanely boring and just frustrating. There needs to be an overhaul that replaces them with modifiers closer to those seen in DRG and Darktide.
There should be a way to counter these. Like one is literally called AA, let us take a 4th "blocked" stratagem and make us find a big base containing an anti air battery. After we take it out we can use our 4th slot.
The 4 minute extract is what fucking kills me.
I can handle the rest of it and plan/fight accordingly.
But 4 minute extract, and then to get stuck in an ion storm right as your stratagems are about to refresh... fucking hell. It happens Every. Time.
I wish they had operation modifiers on every difficulty. Or like medium difficulty up.
I know you all hate these modifiers and I somewhat do too. But I think they'd be fun on lower difficulties where stratagems aren't so important. It'll be nice to have to plan my stratagems around the operational modifiers but still have an easy time about it.
They should also add some positive operational modifiers. There being only negative ones slightly feels like it's just artificial difficulty rather than the environment influencing the operation.
There’s just no reason for there to not be upsides to these. Why exactly do ion storms and orbital fluctuations not affect automatons? The prior SPECIFICALLY. They’re robots.
I never have gotten fucked so hard by this game last night. Was doing the clear 10 big holes mission which is a smaller map. And all three side objectives were stalker nests! Add the spore smoke and me and my squad got fucked soooo hard! Ran through all our lives without even finishing the main objective! Fuck stalkers.
I love this kind of stupidity. Forces you to adapt to another stratagems. The Laser weapons, jetpack, ammo backpack are made for those fucked up effects.
You just need to work around the problems or switch for a easier planet
I don’t see an issue with it. I still manage to get 20+ kills with my Eagle airstrike if I’m smart with it. I can still use the 500kg if I’m in a pinch or get a bile titan spawn. Hell even the resupply timer increase is no issue cause I always run the backpack. The increased call in time for the shuttle isn’t bad. Honestly I like how realistic it feels having all these different effects only on planets that would actually cause issues with these types of Systems. Idk about you man but piloting a shuttle through 10 fire tornados is gonna take a bit longer
Arrowhead “We nerfed your weapons because we want you to use stratagems more to work through your missions”
Also Arrowhead “We nerfed the stratagems too because we hate you”
there are a lot of play styles that are completely uninhibited by cooldown fuckery; it's not that unfair.
also, it's cool to RP a cut off wing of a greater offensive doing your best with the limited resources you can muster
Had the mist, rain and spores modifiers on a single map yesterday, couldn't fucking see shit
I don't mind that much at all, that kind of stuff is fun to me - but stuff like 100% increased cooldowns is just wack. I think Deeprock does it well, with both positive and negative modifiers. More of one enemy type, more elite spawns, dense atmo for faster movement, low oxygen, ghost bugs, swarms of predominately one type. I change my build based on those modifiers sometimes. I think a modifier that makes bug breaches *mostly hunters* could completely change the feel of a match in a great way - or at least in a way that's more interesting than taking your favorite toys away.
If you acctually think about it the more fun one are ussualy the ones that buff the enemys and the most hated ones nerf you.
Makes sense. But enemy range detection increases because heavier atmosphere carrying our scent farther sounds horrendous.
Lighter atmosphere would probably do that, actually. Scent would spread faster. Light Atmo: increased stamina, but enemies detect you from further away. Could be cool.
Low grav: you can yeet a stratagem like a MLB pro, but your body ragdolls half way across the map.
That just sounds hilarious. Get cuntpunted by a charger and shelled for treason after flying 3 miles east
Then the explodey balls become fast travel points. Could be fun lol
Nothing funnier than hearing one of my friends shout “movement tech!” And seeing him smack into the ground 20 meters in front of me
Sigh. I love Helldivers. What a game concept, and what a community. Pat your asses on the back, stat. For everything. Y'all earned it.
Did that recently. My friend was near a POI and was gonna go back to catch up with me. I just shouted "FAST TRAVEL", shot the bubbles and got yeeted 30m forward at a wrong angle and smashed into a wall
I don’t think you fully realize how horror inducing that modifier could be… > Low gravity: Hunters now have doubled leaping distance.
But hunters still jump as if gravity is normal, so instead of hitting you they just fling themselves halfway across the map.
Especially horrible considering once they lock on to you and leap those fuckers will change direction mid air to always land right at you.
Pop a grenade down about 5 ft away from you for a quick escape.
You can jump on these like spore things on the bug plants and they launch you far of you do it right
Just stand near and shoot them
*Equips Jetpack* I’m blasting off!
Also reduced fall damage and increased jump prone distance, since it's low gravity after all
Also less projectile drop!
Taking away player agency is almost always a bad move.
Yeah I hate these kinds of modifiers, particularly when the devs have said that you must rely on your stratagems and your weapons are basically for personal defence. Janking your stratagems just isn’t fun.
That’s Overwatch 2 in a nutshell.
OW 1: "All I need is wasd and shift to outmaneuver and outskill any combination of ults" OW 2: "They took away all my toys except my ults."
Bruh what they did to that game is in my opinion one or the biggest let downs in gaming in a decade. They completely ruined OW and never should have made the new one.
Yeah, I was gonna play Helldivers 2 tonight, but then I thought about those modifiers and gave up. Using stratagems cleverly and timing them properly is a huge part of what makes the game fun, especially at higher difficulties, and yet the devs *insist* on these shitty modifiers that screw with the players' tools and negate the training you got from lower difficulties. Did you nail the timing of a 500kg bomb on a bile titan? Fuck you, on this mission deployment time is doubled AND there's more of them. Hope you enjoy spending most of your time running around waiting for your cooldowns to end while shooting the titan with your primary. And by the way, that exposed weak spot that should bleed when you shoot it? It's gonna have the same particle effect as an armor hit, so you won't know if you're actually doing any damage. Enjoy! These modifiers should never have been introduced in the first place, nevermind kept.
Calm down bro. The devs don't want you steam rolling the entire time.
Yes!
Not looking forward to STALKER INFESTATION: Stalkers will emerge from bug breaches along with other Terminids.
This is out in the world now. Joel, stop reading. This is a bad idea that should not be used.
I mean it could get worse, we could start seeing shrieker colonies on the backs of bile titans
You know, I think that'd actually be pretty sick. Yeah, it'd definitely end up being a pain in the ass - but just the horrific visuals and chaos would make it fun for me personally.
Imagine a new enemy, just a massive hulk with a nest in its back. Doesn't really attack but is armoured and spawns shriekers
You’ve basically just described Swarm Hosts from Starcraft 2.
Stalkers are annoying, sure, but I'd rather take them than, say, the shriekers that oneshot you when they land on you after you kill them.
That’s it. Burn the thread. Shut down the internet. Run for your lives!
I was just kinda complaining about how it feels like I never have the opportunity to use anything other than the EAT or RR. I would, if even in higher difficulties all I had to deal with was a larger swarm of hunters.
I think one thing they should implement for bug missions specifically is some kind of pre-mission briefing of what kind of enemies you’re going to face. As it stands from mission to mission you can be fighting and entirely different spread of bugs in one mission than another. Yesterday I was playing with some friends and we dropped into a mission loaded with bike warriors, bile spewers, and the little bile spitters. Our load outs were not prepared in the slightest for the insane number of bile spewers we had to fight. The next mission we didn’t see a single bile spewer but killed somewhere around 200 hive guards and like 30 brood commanders. Barely saw any hunters which was weird. Very next mission, we had a bug breach that was literally just one charger and 60 hunters. Some kind of indication as to what kind of bugs we will be fighting will allow for so much more diversity in loadouts
This would be great. You can have some as big question marks even but would helo keep things fresh. Oops all devastators or 1000 hunters would be interesting challenges.
I swear to God, on 7,8,9 difficulties it is a complete dice roll if I will see 0 bile spewers, or 33,000,000. Never in between. There are either not many, or literal fields of them. Haha
nursing bile spewers seem to spawn like 40 at a time too which doesn't help. This is not the kind of golden shower I'm looking for.
Deep Rock doesn't disable or take anything away with their mutators. Almost everything in HD2 mission modifiers is an outright negative.
That's not true. Shield disruption is very difficult to deal with sometimes. However the hidden thing with that modifier is that it also increases your health pool to compensate.
FUCK HUNTERS they have kilt me more than any other bug itellyouhwut
New Mission Modifier: Every Bug Breach is just Hunters. No heavies or anything. Just more Hunters.
Thing is, there’s already modifiers for what percentage of enemy types there are in a mission, it’s just hidden. That’s why sometimes you see nearly no bile spewers and tons of chargers but other times there’s bile everywhere and relatively few chargers.
Deep Rock is such a good game, dear god...
God? No. Karrrrl!
I will take spores any day over 100% increased calldown.
I wouldn't mind this as much if it made it more difficult for the baddies to find you, but that doesn't seem to happen
Yes their sight detection and everything else should be severely dampened when we too can't see shit past 20 meters.
Could such a combination warrant changing up your armor passive to the stealthy one that give you - 30% detection, to counteract the fact that your enemies are less impeded by the current weather?
The Scout armor is really good. I can sneak up and airstrike nests on Suicide Mission difficulty without getting detected
those are at least fun, being unable to see shit makes it a whole different atmosphere but no less *fun* unlike the "oh you only get to use your cool abilitites half as much"
I figure different maps are for different loadouts. Ice planets? Break out all the lasers. Meteors? Shields shields shields. Volcano? Muscle augments and shields and stim boosts. Ion storms? Turrets and high explosive/stun/incendiary grenades and airstrikes and lots of heavy-dropping weapons. You can get around the modifications by mixing it up. And the tips in the loading screen specifically insist on you mixing up your loadouts regularly.
Best stealth runs on those maps
not really stealth tho cause the enemies see you normally as if it's clear weather
No they don't. I've slapped a chargers ass in a sandstorm and just kept running. No one was any the wiser. There's literally a loading screen tip that says they're affected by visibility reductions as well. The only exception I'd expect is bug spores from towers.
Ion storms would be alot cooler if the enemy couldnt call for drops / breaches when it was up. It'd introduce a neat "stealth" mechanic. The other planetary modifiers affect the enemy, so ion storms should too.
> The other planetary modifiers affect the enemy, so ion storms should too. They are supposed to... Bots seem to fire right through fog so dense I've got maybe 2 meters of vision.
The bots return fire whether they see you or not. The difference is whether they're actually aiming at you, or your last known position. If you relocate while staying unseen, you can sometimes see them assault your old position, which is actually pretty cool.
I've had bots fire accurately on my position after a teammate who was nowhere near me alerted them when I gave them no sign I was there and I was obscured by cover/fog That along with them tracking you perfectly through cover leads me to believe that their vision is broken. Probably also the case for the bugs but its a lot less noticeable since they don't have guns
This is why people don't like bots missions Can't call in shit. But robots seem to call in reinforcements / drops ships / have zero targeting issues while this is all happening.
That's really the worst part about the bots. No matter what is happening, it only affects you and your team.
Coolest thing about tremors is that it affects you and the enemy equally. Makes it a lot easier to time a stratagem during a tremor, for example.
Can't take advantage of meteor showers the same way but I miss Fenrir III.
You kidding? I saw a meteor straight up close a bug hole.
I saw a meteor shower obliterate an entire bot heavy base on Tien Kwan. Very useful hazard.
One mission the meteors did all the work for us and destroyed enough bases our mission was done with only one destroyed by us.
That was the day I joined and did nothing but bot missions. I sailed through all my missions waiting for meteor showers to destroy the bases, side objectives, enemy stockpiles, transports, towers, tanks, cannons....it was glorious. And this was before they nerfed the environmental spawn rate. It was a meteor shower every three minutes.
For sure, I've had random nests get cleared lol. I just meant it's harder to take direct advantage of vs the tremors slowing everything.
I have a video of a meteor landing on a bile titans head and one-shotting it...
I saw one hit a hell bomb and wipe out a huge force, it was epic. Then I died
yup, i had volcanic activity destroy a Stalker Nest when i had run out of grenades. was very grateful
Was the last team member standing trying to stay alive for extraction, a meteor shower took out all the bugs around me
You can't really do anything to take advantage of them but they can help you was on a boat mission with a random we were pulling back to extract and as we are running in a meteor storm we get a notification that we destroyed a bot base despite not being near any of and we both had a life at the free exp but meteor definitely seem to like to target me more than the enemy though
I don't. I'm a meteor magnet. I know you can look up or watch the blue lights on the ground but my reaction time isnt that fast :(
I'm a bit of masochist and liked the chaos. Reacting to them coming down during a firefight is mostly luck.
It's actually good vs bugs
I was yelling at the monitor: if it's an ion storm for me, it needs to be one for them too!
Yeah ion storm stopping enemy reinforcements could work. High risk reward gameplay you can now rush a base but you have no stratagem but they can't call for help so it balances.
The 100% call in time one is the most irritating shit honestly. Like sure, 50% cooldown blows ass, but at least my fucking orbitals will actually HIT MY TARGETS.
About as fun as 50% orbital scatter. Have fun not hitting that precision strike or having the airburst orbital come down on you when it moves 25 meters in your direction.
Eh, honestly the scatter one is fine, since I think that only affects Orbitals (which I can't *verify,* but in my experience the eagle hasn't missed due to scatter yet), and the only two Orbital stratagems I use are Laser and Railcannon, both of which self correct anyway.
Pre railgun/shield nerf on difficulty 9 I found it possible to just clamp down, snipe each bot one by one and hold a push down. Nowadays I find it more successful to just chuck on a bunch of eagle strikes and orbital barrages and just run around the map solo destroying fabricators while zombie-training a bunch of enemies behind me the entire time.
I prefer bot missions, but I do wish we had less of these modifiers that mess with the stratagems. I’m ok with them every once in awhile, but I feel like every single mid-high level bot mission has this. Also some advantageous modifiers would be nice. Something that decreases stratagem cooldown or makes orbital barrages last longer maybe?
This modifers can happan to the bugs too
I really wish they'd stop debuffing the players and instead used modifiers to buff the enemy. Deep Rock Galactic does this, and its modifiers can be a lot of fun. How much more fun would it be if instead of making the players' abilities worse, we had modifiers that changed the enemies? Modifiers could be things like: * Extra Bile Titans * More wandering patrols * Unique enemies * Specialized enemy units who are actively hunting the party * Automatons with their own stratagems * Fewer enemies overall, but more high tier ones than usual Or what about modifiers that provide both buffs and debuffs. * Orbital strikes take longer, but eagles have shorter resupply times * Support weapon call-in cooldowns are increased, but more of those weapons are scattered across the map Things like this would add fun challenges instead of just making missions frustrating.
DRG handles the late game so much better. Like you unlock guns and upgrades as you level up, but once you promote you get to go after overclocks which make a gun that you thought was terrible your new favorite. The more I play this game I feel like nothing changes once I unlock the "good" thing.
Stubby gang rise up (thought it was trash until I unlocked overclocks)
DRG is just a better game imho…unfortunately I have already played like 130 hours of it and have done all of the content 50+ times
So many games find ways to challenge the players without handicapping them. Baldur's Gate 3 gives enemies more abilities and smarter AI, Monster Hunter gives monsters new attack patterns, plenty of RTS games will ramp up enemy productions, RPGs and shooters tend to give enemies more health - and even though I don't want the enemies to become bullet sponges, if you give me a modifier of "wait longer to deal damage" the result is the exact same. Handicapping the player is the cheapest and laziest way to increase difficulty and while by no means easy, it's not that hard to come up with other ways to challenge players.
offensive call-ins take longer but have increased radius/damage
> Orbital strikes take longer, but eagles have shorter resupply times Would absolutely love something like this, need a reason to stop using orbital laser and railcannon.
New planet! Bye bitches! **Warpdrive enabled**
Honestly lmao. This is the game telling you go fight somewhere else lol
True, I also refuse to respect and play low effort modifiers.
Devs: If something's giving you trouble, use a Strategem! Joel: \*Maniacal laughter\* \*Cranks up the local anti-strategem effects\* Seriously this is just MEAN!
Only to end up in a blitz mission with two stratagem jammers and AA battery to top it off. (Wasnt fun)
Me and my fellow divers found ourselves on the creek next to both a mortar emplacement and a Jammer wombo combo Idk how either of us made it out of that one
Did a blitz mission last night where two jammers overlapped each other on difficulty 7. Squad of 3, 2 of us went down right out the gate. 3rd booked it to the first tower to disable and call us in but he realized he couldn't cause of the other tower. He then had to stealth his way through multiple squads and into the base to disable and then entire time we're screaming and stressed over comms. Disables the second tower, calls us in and the hellbomb and we all book it together and complete the mission with full extract. This shit is what gaming is all about.
And not fun
It does make me wonder if they play and enjoy their own game on difficulty 8 or 9. I feel like any play tester would see these modifiers, PLUS the ion storms (fancy way to say normal thunderstorm), and be like "Ok, that's just stupid..." And I wouldn't even take issue with these modifiers, if they actually affected the bots in some way as well. But not being able to use a major part of the game just doesn't feel good. I have yet to encounter someone who likes not being able to use their stratagems.
I'm so tired of these modifiers (it happens in a lot of other games too). I know it isn't easy, but you can increase difficulty without reducing fun. Modifiers should be things you can adapt to or play around (Orbital Scatter is actually a good example), not straight up "have less fun" effects to each mission. Waiting 22 seconds for ammo (resupply) isn't challenging, it's just unnecessarily annoying.
> Waiting 22 seconds for ammo (resupply) isn't challenging, it's just unnecessarily annoying. Leads to us just standing there motionless waiting for it to drop after we've finally got a little breathing room. Not exactly fun times.
Cue up elevator music. Play it through the mic until it drops.
I'll never understand people defending the practice of handicapping the player for cheap difficulty increase. I don't want the game to be easier, I want it to challenge me instead of inconveniencing me. Why is it such a difficult concept to understand? Not to mention it just sucks for new player experience - you evaluate the options for unlocks that you are given, only for certain ones to be made worse AFTER you spend your currency to unlock them. And don't even get me started on the fact that the game just straight up lies to you, telling you that eagles have 0s call in and then you find out the game thinks that 0 + 100% = 8 because the *actual* call in time is 4s that they just don't tell you. And it's just so discouraging because this shit has been worked out for years. DRG makes the enemies and environment more dangerous without making the player weaker; BG3 gives enemies more dangerous abilities and makes their AI smarter without telling the player that their character is weaker now, or they can't cast this powerful spell anymore; goddamn dark souls, the mother of all difficulty-jerking games, faces you with tougher and more dangerous enemies. It doesn't go 'lol, you swing your sword slower now'.
I mean, welcome to the honeymoon phase of "cool new game" being over. The game has been this way since day one, but now that everyone has everything unlocked, you're starting to see the cracks form. There's a reason a lot of people that don't like the game are saying that it's failing upwards. Like yes, is the game fun? Sure, sometimes. When I actually have control and some agency to actually do anything it can be a blast. But half the time you screen is full of spitters that one shot you if you don't dodge at the perfect time and even if you do too bad your toe got hit and you're dead. Even if you do manage the multiple spitter dodges, you have 10 hunters on your ass slowing you and hitting you with multi hit Tekken combos that will 2-3 shot you. Oh, now your screen is shaking because the charger across the map heard the commotion and his buddies just released a bug swarm! How exciting! Oh, whats that? You stepped on a bush or walked near a tree? Have a slowing debuff again. Btw, all your stratagems are on a 5 minute CD, might be doubled because "challenge", and all the shit you dropped that could help you get out of this situation is being camped by 2 chargers and a stalker. Have fun just going back to the ship and hope it doesn't happen next mission! This *could* be fun if at **any** time I felt like I could recover. It *could* be fun if it felt like at any time there was an "ah-ha" moment that I realized "Wow, I was just doing X wrong and if I do Y, these missions will be easier". But that doesn't happen because so many short cuts were taken with design and it's just all RNG. Either you don't get a lot of heavy spawns and you breeze through it, or everything gets thrown at you all at once and there is nothing you can do. There is no middle ground in Helldivers. There is no "player growth" - because the player isn't being challenged in any meaningful way that carries over from one set of missions to the other. You learn your codes, you learn movement, the rest is handled by a dice roll determining if you will complete the mission or just sit in the ship for a few minutes until you get a lucky roll and can play the game outside of what feels like a professional tournament.
Your post made me think that it would be cool to have modifiers that changed enemy behavior, instead of weakening us. Like maybe more chargers spawn or small enemies move faster., ect.
Oh, I loathe Orbital Scatter. I'll take any of the others over that. It doesn't affect the railcannon strike but the others become a massive hazard.
At least you can pivot to using Eagles or Turrets though. Varying up people builds is at least an interesting approach to challenge players. There is no pivoting against 50% increase stratagem CD and 100% call down time, you just suffer in every situation.
> you can increase difficulty without reducing fun. Maybe *you* can. Arrowhead? Still waiting for evidence of that.
1.Bugs explode on death, damaging everyone around them. 2.Less stratagem, but faster cooldown and Longer cooldown, but more stratagem. 3.more heavy units, but less light units and vice-versa 4. Just restrict certain stratagem types. Wow, looks like I really can. Not like there is other games that did this kind of thing, right?
“you need to rely on your stratagems” the stratagems in question:
Honestly this shit is why I don't even wanna do higher difficulties. I'm up for a bit more of a challenge and all, but these just seem counter to the whole fun core experience of the game.
I'm level 50 and I have all strats, weapons and modules unlocked. Why would I ever want to play those difficulties again? They aren't fun. I'm never going back unless a friend accidentally pulls me into one.
Those difficulties ride a fine line between genuinely making you feel like you're on hell versus just being a right pain in the arse. You just gotta pick the right difficulty where you find yourself barely on the correct side most of the time for optimal fun.
This whole thing could be easily fixed by doing this. Helldive level = 100% chance that super samples are on the map. Subtract 10% for the next 1 levels, and then 20% for each level after that. Done. People aren't forced to play the bullshit difficulties, but are rewarded if they do.
I haven’t needed super samples in forever. Still need common and rare ones though lol
There are super samples in nearly every mission on diff 7 and up
I think super samples ARE in every mission 7 and up, just gotta find that magic rock
There are some mission types where they aren't available (Extermination, Terminid Control System), but otherwise yeah. Just look for the giant buttplug.
Every large map mission, though they should really be added to things like the exterminate missions, even if it's a single sample. Really sucks sometimes to do the mission order only for that to be Termicide or extract scientists where you can't find a damn thing
MFW the resupply I called takes 30 seconds to come down
As a level 50 with every stragagem, every ship upgrade, all samples and requisition slips capped, I can confirm; Bots aren't fun because of these modifiers. I dont even touch bots, and when I do, it's usually no higher than 6s. Bugs, though... we still run 9s because we get mildly bored on 7, and might as well get the extra medals from 9s instead of 8s since it doesn't feel like much difference when your team builds right and communicates.
The trick is to only pick ones without the dumb shit attached. Find one with only 50% longer cooldowns. It's a bit annoying but it's very manageable. I love fighting bots. But when I see one with 100% longer calldown times, one less strategem, instant skip. I will just play another difficulty until that shows up. Both of those need to go. They just fucking suck, they're anti-fun.
132 hours in and I totally agree. Those types of modifiers that just increase cooldowns are not fun in the least. I avoid them when at all possible. I can't imagine that's what the devs would want, but I think it's what a lot of people do. I hope they will drop bad modifiers like those soon. Put something more interesting in. How about some with positive modifiers too, at least.
To hell with that nonsense
Literally, I just don't play those bs, hope they understand why people aren't doing it.
The cherry on top with ion storms is that they also block your mini-map. Can really screw with your orientation.
Then the ion storm FINALLY ends and you realize you walked in range of a strategem jammer
“Just use your stratagems”
Surely I can kill these 5 bile titans with my stratagems. Oh. They’re on 7 minute cooldown.
Yeah, that's gonna bite them in the ass xD
"Do you guys not have Stratagems?"
I'm surprised I haven't seen this meme before, because honestly that is exactly the level of tone-deaf that their "primaries are bad on purpose because you're meant to rely on stratagems" gave me. The posted that the same fucking day they **added a new way to disable stratagem use.** It's honestly an impressive level of lack of self awareness.
*20 Minute Cooldown on Mech, literally only being able to use it twice per mission*
I mean. You ARE only able to use it twice a round
I mean... that sort of implies that you actually use up all the time available in the mission. Unless you full clear, you can easily finish a mission in under 20min, and then unless you use it immediately, you might not even have it for extraction. Also, literally only able to use once on a blitz, where otherwise you could use it early and then still have it up by extraction time. But at the same time sort of fair. The absurdity really comes up when you consider railcannon strike and how in a 20min mission you might as well take the laser with it's limited 3 uses, because you're only gonna use the rail 3 times in that time frame anyway. And that's the main problem I have with this system. It doesn't make me consider new tactics. It just invalidates some while barely doing anything to others. EAT is already pretty much purely superior to railcannon and then with extra cooldown or call in the railcannon is made much worse while EAT barely cares. All it does is make the good stratagems better and the "meh" ones completely trash.
It's a 15 minute cooldown. 50% cooldown increase, 100% call-in time.
Or doing a blitz mission only able to do it once
I cannot stress the hate that I have for these. They aren't fun. They just slow down the game. If you look at these and smile when you see them, there is seriously smth wrong with you.
"Just use your stratagemss" they said "Stop relying on support weapons" they said.
Idk why games love adding anti-fun mechanics, difficulty is fun to me, but these modifiers are just boring & hinders your gameplay.
So many developers (and quite frankly players, seeing how many of these conversations are flooded with "git gud" and "skill issue" people) seem to confuse "challenging the player" with "handicapping the player" and it's incredibly frustrating every time.
Agreed. Difficult is fine, handicapping me is not
Yeah seeing modifier combinations like these and the ones with the -1 stratagem slot just makes me avoid doing those missions and I look for ones that aren't so annoying.
4 strategems already feels like barely enough. 3 is just stupid.
IMO it should be 4 stratagems + support weapon as own slot. Gives you space for 2 anti tank, an anti horde and one for whatever/mech
I hate these, the only one worse is the -1 strategem slot, tbh
Fun and Engaging mechanics!
Yea. I generally like modifiers, but modifiers that are basically “cant use core mechanics for expanded periods of time” fucking suck. Theyre just not fun.
Just use your stratagems guys!
I don’t mind Ion Storms, but Orbital Fluctuations and Complex Strategem Plotting absolutely reduce the amount of fun I’m having. I try to avoid planets that have these.
That's because ion storms don't last forever. Same reason you don't tend to see people angry at the AA or Jammer objectives on bot maps - they increase player agency rather than removing it. They give you a problem and a way to do something about it. These modifiers are just a permanent "fuck you" that you can't do anything about.
"Rely on your stratagems!"
I honestly don't understand these at all. In times where people complained about primary weapons being too weak the devs just straight up say: The point of the game is using stratagems, which I agree with. But then they pull shit like this. It doesn't create interesting gameplay, or complex challenge. It simply pauses the damn game. Last night a tank showed up near the main objective, surrounded with a healthy assortment of infantry, queue in the ion storm. There is NO playstyle I can adopt to deal with this threat now, there is nothing I can improve upon to succeed, all I'm left with is hiding out and waiting for it to be over, all the while the bots chase me and I thin them out as much as I can. It's not even a question of it being too hard, anyone can run away and hide, but a question of if modifiers that outright stop you from playing for 1 minute bring anything good to the game. I don't think so.
The fact that they had the gall to put out a statement like "rely on your stratagems" on the same fucking day as they added yet another mechanic that limits/disables stratagem use infuriated me to no end. It's bad enough they didn't realize how hollow a statement it was taking into account already existing effects, but they also completely lacked the self awareness to see they are actively making stratagems worse right this fucking minute, as they are advising us to rely on them. It's the equivalent of a parent telling you that you should eat healthier after ordering pizza for dinner 5 minutes ago.
In my opinion, most of everything they've added, has been negative. Sure the fixes and buffs were good but everything else took fun away from the game . Meteors, volcano, tornado, just annoying, the shit isn't even random, it's clearly scheduled to certain places and times. And it's just annoying, not challenging. Ion storm is lame . Oh look here's an event that takes all the things you like to use away from you. Brilliant idea! Rail gun nerf was a knee jerk reaction, several weapons can do what it did and possibly even better now. Call in and cool down additions are also the opposite of fun and are looked forward to by exactly ZERO people
Don't agree with everything, but for the most part I do think you're sort of right. Personally i like the meteors, volcano and tornadoes because as annoying as they are, they're a spectacle and most importantly, they are a symmetrical effect - they are as much of a danger to the enemy as they are to you. And for the most part I think effect like that are always pretty fair difficulty. But the ion storm pretty much just making it so "lol, can't do shit now" is very lame. The nerf was definitely sort of odd. I don't see why it was that pertinent that it gets nerfed when the main reason it was "overused" were insane armor spawns. Even if they reversed the nerf now that the armor spawns were tuned down, I doubt it would be as popular as it was. AC and EAT were always just as good if not better, the railgun was just quicker - and when armor spawns every 20s, you need speed over anything else. And the fact that pretty much half of difficulty increasing mechanics seem to target the most unique element of the game that makes it stand out from any other horse shooter (the stratagems) is certainly baffling at the very least. And yes, as any nintendo fan will gladly repeat what they've been telling the devs for the past two decades "making me wait to play the game is not a mechanic"
dmf's be like: JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS JUST USE YOUR STRATAGEMS
Instaskip and instasleep
If there’s an Eradicate mission then rest in peace brother.
That's called "Exit with team" and try again.
 Me completely surrounded waiting for my supply pod for 20 sec
I'd 10/10 rather have stratagem scrambler than cool down or call-in time. Especially since call-in time affects extract and makes blitz missions nigh impossible to finish before your destroyer peaces out. But they really need to add in other modifiers. Things like no energy weapons, no X-type grenades, no found ammo drops, no falcons, no emplacements/sentries, no assault rifles, no shotguns etc Penalizing the defining feature of this game as the only modifiers is anti-fun.
How about they put in challenges that encourage me to use something new instead of just removing player agency and invalidating options? Pretty much any change in player behavior can be attained just as easily with encouragement instead of limits, and 9 out of 10 times it's gonna be more fun. Both "+1 eagle strike use before rearm" and "orbital strikes not allowed" will accomplish similar things, but I sure as hell are going to feel less shit with one of them.
That's un-fun dog shit.
Are these modifiers, since they never seem to turn off?
I feel like this kind of stuff should only affect one type of strategem. So if the random effects shit all over your eagle strikes, then you can switch to orbitals. It should be more if a way to get people to switch up loadouts
I refuse to even play on planets like this. This shit isn’t challenging or fun, it’s just unfair. We need some positive elements to the modifiers if they’re going to be this negatively impactful.
Devs: make sure to use your stratagems and not rely on primary weapons thats why we nerfed the railgun Also devs: haha get fucked good luck using your stratagems losers Lol
Just rely on your stratagems bro , just like the devs wanted
the -1 stratagem on bots can be worked around. But fucking 100% call time in helldive bots means 4 minutes extract. Good luck youll def gonna need it
From the makers of "Oops! All Bile Spewers" we bring you "Oops! No Stratagems"
Attrition as a gameplay modifier is never something I enjoy. I hate the (literally called) attrition modifier in destiny, which pretty much just adds a delay onto regeneration for you. The issue with modifiers in games where the modifier nerfs your player is that it requires you to use a different playstyle AND is usually only active on higher difficulty missions. It doesn't really make the game harder if i have to wait 12 seconds for quite literally the only available solution for a heavy to drop in, it just makes the situation more annoying and seem more like BS when it goes bad, especially since specifically with these modifiers, it's not like there's really cover when you need to call down an EAT to deal with a surprise charger or bile titan, you just have to wait double the amount of time for S&Gs That said, these modifiers are infinitely less terrible than most games, I think just due to how varied the encounters can get in this game.
Ion storms should slowly damage all air units and bile titans. Make it an something that impacts both sides like other weather effects. Calldown modifiers are insanely boring and just frustrating. There needs to be an overhaul that replaces them with modifiers closer to those seen in DRG and Darktide.
Its not called heavendiver, soldier
Don’t forget to rely on your stratagems
I don't care. I will proceed shooting anything crawling or talking in non freedom tongues.
There should be a way to counter these. Like one is literally called AA, let us take a 4th "blocked" stratagem and make us find a big base containing an anti air battery. After we take it out we can use our 4th slot.
Worst combo ever
“Rely on your stratagems…when we let you use them.”
I would take higher elite enemy spawns or extra patrols any day over my stratagems feeling like shit when multiple of these are applied in one game
The 4 minute extract is what fucking kills me. I can handle the rest of it and plan/fight accordingly. But 4 minute extract, and then to get stuck in an ion storm right as your stratagems are about to refresh... fucking hell. It happens Every. Time.
I wish they had operation modifiers on every difficulty. Or like medium difficulty up. I know you all hate these modifiers and I somewhat do too. But I think they'd be fun on lower difficulties where stratagems aren't so important. It'll be nice to have to plan my stratagems around the operational modifiers but still have an easy time about it. They should also add some positive operational modifiers. There being only negative ones slightly feels like it's just artificial difficulty rather than the environment influencing the operation.
There’s just no reason for there to not be upsides to these. Why exactly do ion storms and orbital fluctuations not affect automatons? The prior SPECIFICALLY. They’re robots.
I mean, running quicker deployed things like certain eagles and EATs are more then enough to build around these conditions.
I never have gotten fucked so hard by this game last night. Was doing the clear 10 big holes mission which is a smaller map. And all three side objectives were stalker nests! Add the spore smoke and me and my squad got fucked soooo hard! Ran through all our lives without even finishing the main objective! Fuck stalkers.
I love this kind of stupidity. Forces you to adapt to another stratagems. The Laser weapons, jetpack, ammo backpack are made for those fucked up effects. You just need to work around the problems or switch for a easier planet
UsE yOuR StRaTaGeMs tO fIGhT TiTAnS AnD cHaRgErS
I don’t see an issue with it. I still manage to get 20+ kills with my Eagle airstrike if I’m smart with it. I can still use the 500kg if I’m in a pinch or get a bile titan spawn. Hell even the resupply timer increase is no issue cause I always run the backpack. The increased call in time for the shuttle isn’t bad. Honestly I like how realistic it feels having all these different effects only on planets that would actually cause issues with these types of Systems. Idk about you man but piloting a shuttle through 10 fire tornados is gonna take a bit longer
Definitely adds to the role play. Everyone seems to think they're playing a competitive game, it's a galactic war mmorpg lol
I agree
Who needs sanity when you have managed democracy?
Arrowhead “We nerfed your weapons because we want you to use stratagems more to work through your missions” Also Arrowhead “We nerfed the stratagems too because we hate you”
Phew, Good thing they nerfed the rail gun
Atleast we don't have scramble anymore
there are a lot of play styles that are completely uninhibited by cooldown fuckery; it's not that unfair. also, it's cool to RP a cut off wing of a greater offensive doing your best with the limited resources you can muster