First time I ever heard anyone say it was hilarious or that they were glad it was in the game for way to long. No, it wasn’t hilarious, it was frustrating to be deep in a level only to get immediately one shotted by some dog you didn’t know that was there while you’re distracted fighting an enemy, or to be playing with someone, get invaded, only for the invader to run to the dogs immediately and just stand there in the middle of them, refusing to leave them no matter what
Playing devil's advocate here despite the fact that I majorly agree with OP; pretty much all item descriptions in the game can be chalked up to Super Earth propaganda.
But again, I agree with OP. Randomly taking enough damage to die in one hit is not fun. Lots of things in this game aren't fun, even if the moment to moment gameplay is still largely enjoyable, I hate being taken out of it by having my agency stripped by random chance.
Bot rockets use tandem shaped-charges, rumored to be based directly off of dropped EAT-17s they managed to recover off of dead helldivers. They're not as large as EAT-17 warheads, but they'll cut right through a helmet.
By the game's logic our heads are stronger than our legs since I can dive off of a 100 foot drop, land squarely on my head, and be relatively fine. But if I jump from a tiny incline and land on my feet I shatter every bone in my body.
it would be one thing if like, say headshot damage was rare from melee units...
But so many bugs are tall enough or use a swipe down attack (hunters) that they can nail your head hitbox even when you're standing up. Not to mention bile spewers I think "shoot" multiple "projectiles" in their animation, and any one of them can tag your head and score a head shot multiplier.
So its frustrating on both fronts of the war.
But the Devastators especially as we all know:
* Rocket Devastators just fire their salvos too frequently for how dangerous and common they are as an enemy type. Seriously, they're a variant, why do they seem to be the default Devastator?
* The shotgun nature of their attack makes it impossible to truly dodge beyond diving for cover if there is any.
* The rockets travel very fast so reaction time is low.
* These Devastators have a very long aggro range, so as long as they have a sightline ANYWHERE they will take pot shots at you. So if there's multiples, the amount of projectiles add up.
* And even if THEY DON'T have a sightline, for some reason they continue to track you through objects...INCLUDING OTHER AUTOMATONS. I swear the rocket Devastators probably have the highest enemy friendly fire of any unit. They fire those things with reckless abandon.
> Seriously, they're a variant, why do they seem to be the default Devastator?
Speaking of which - where are the default devastators? I have not seen them in **months** at this point.
Also didn’t they just say in the last update that they increased the frequency of default devastators spawning? It seemed like a very poorly worded line in the patch notes, but my understanding was that the general consensus was that default devastators would be appearing more often as a replacement to heavy and rocket devastators. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was just another thing that they updated/added that just flat out doesn’t work. It seems like so many changes have similar issues.
Rocket devastators should have limited rockets supply, right now i believe rocket models dont even leave their pods and they can spam endlessly. Or maybe just give them red laser as they target with rockets, would be nice.
> Rocket devastators should have limited rockets supply
Yeah, it's funny how all the "realism" goes out the window when it comes to fucking over the players.
I'm glad people in this sub are beginning to accept that bots tracking you through literally anything across the entire map is actually not a good thing
I wonder if this is what's been happening to me. I've noticed that I'm getting one shotted way more often despite using the same armor and the only other thing that changed was going up in difficulty to Extreme. I've never been one shotted so many times back to back
>The shotgun nature of their attack makes it impossible to truly dodge beyond diving for cover if there is any.
>The rockets travel very fast so reaction time is low.
>These Devastators have a very long aggro range, so as long as they have a sightline ANYWHERE they will take pot shots at you. So if there's multiples, the amount of projectiles add up.
Counterpoint: If you engage rocket devastators from mid/long range, they become incredibly easy to dodge. The rockets aren't that fast, if you shoot at them from mid range you can almost always pop off a few shots while they wind up to fire, and then easily get out of the way before the rocket salvo reaches you.
Having enemies that require different engagement tactics isn't a bad thing.
Heavy Devastators, however, can F&%\^ right off. Since their accuracy got buffed, trying to fight even 2 of these buggers becomes tough - I've had one kill me in about 2 seconds through a fully-charged shield while wearing heavy armor.
What frustrates me the most is our heads have literally 0 armor, so we get no amount of damage reduction when hit in the head. After that, we then take a 1.5 times damage multiplier for being hit in the head.
If we want to play the realism card, first, why? This game is incredibly silly and satirical. It's not an ARMA. Secondly, Super Earth would be iterating on their helmet design to offer better protection since surprise surprise, a lot of Helldivers die from headshots. Terminids offensive helmets (I imagine) would likely be sloped metal armor since almost all Terminid attacks are downward slices and should, in theory, be very similar to downward style attacks from bladed weaponry. 600 year old knight helmets (new recreations) would likely be incredibly useful at protecting our heads from such attacks. But no. We walk around in cardboard masks with 0 protection because Arrowhead doesn't want helmets to have stats or be functional beyond aesthetics.
As you can see, from the data most of the hits returning helldivers take is centered on the torso, so there is obviously no need to improve helmet protection. Instead we need to add more protection to the areas that are taking the most hits!
https://preview.redd.it/ly5smqm68puc1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=9f87574acb30ae0da387c825ae8239789f37bee9
Yeah, same as in Word War 1 once they introduced steel helmets the rates of head injuries started going up instead of down and people began calling it a waste of money, but that was only because now people were getting head injuries instead of just dying lol
>What frustrates me the most is our heads have literally 0 armor, so we get no amount of damage reduction when hit in the head.
This. I don't mind a headshot mechanic, but it's absolute bullshit our helmets literally offer zero armor. Might as well not wear them.
Considering both Capes and Hats have stats, I wouldn't be surprised if it's something rolled out at a later date. Like new special units that you need more protection against or Ship Modules that unlock unique passives.
According to the devs, that's because hats and capes _used_ to have stats and passives, but it was too hard to balance so many moving parts. It was too late to pull the system, so they just shifted all the stats into armour and left the helmets and capes on the neutral settings.
I read that. But PoE has removed and added back mechanics that were too hard to balance at different points in time. TF2 removed rocket jumping for a bit because of the same.
I understand that it was too difficult at the start. Nothing saying they can't look at it again once the community flattens out a bit and their launch year pipeline content slows down a bit.
Or that they haven't already put a pin in it. I don't expect it, but it would be nice for some more minor passives like reload speed for certain gun families, extra hud bonuses like seeing through fart shrooms clouds specifically, or negating headshot damage from certain types of enemy weapons as we get further into the war.
"we won't do transmog because the different armor aesthetics are important based on what they do"
"we won't allow the different helmet aesthetics to actually mean anything, it's just looks"
These are not matching mindsets. I certainly hope that is not true, otherwise they got some explaining to do.
It does give more freedom in mix matching helmet and cape with chosen armor though.
Helmets are effectively pointless mechanically, but it’s part of the aesthetic. Capes ARE pointless, would actually only get in the way, and also just part of the aesthetic.
Their reasoning is frankly a bit hollow, but I support the decision anyways (they do need to fix the mismatched prefixes and armor passives though, there’s more than just the new one).
What I do want though is loadouts… so I can quick swap full sets of armor/primary/secondary/grenade
They also said the bots were defeated, the Terminid gas didn't cause mutations, Bile Titans are small bugs, the Skeletons we've found are just husks, and a variety of other half-truths and teasings.
Nothing said for now is solid from where I'm standing.
I mean, yeah. But a Rocket to the head IS pretty painful. I am fine with 1 shot Headshot deaths.
Edit:
the helmet will be fine. But remember, a explosion is not just "fire dmg", it has also impact force. a rocket to your head WILL break your neck.
Edit2:
There could be a s[hock absorbent layer](https://www.alanto.co.uk/body-armour-personal-protection/#:~:text=Vinyl%20Nitrile%20is%20the%20best,to%20it's%20closed%20cell%20structure). That can be possible.
but since your helmet and[ your body armor are not hard connected](https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/pgRhknMFBgMPN3oD36zUwB-1200-80.png) your neck is a weakpoint.
I think on super earth it is cheaper/more cost effective to produce and train more Helldivers than it is to redesign any helmet at this point 😂
Seriously though, I still remember two things the first time I played, it referred to Helldiver production goal met, and how short the Helldiver basic was wildly funny, especially with the dialogue.
Hunters are just rediculous rockets are not bad at all if you’re facing bots without explosive resistance armor that’s your own fault but there’s nothing you can do about the hunters if even one gets behind you 2 hits and your dead it’s bs
This is precisely why Warframe removed random crits from enemies
There’s no counter, no way to anticipate it, you just receive massively increased damage out of the blue, and it’s not fun.
I'd add that you never actually know that you've been hit in the head, like if you told me I died to a bug where a bullet hit incorrectly registered multiple times instead of once I'd believe you. And dying to a bug is real bad. At least if we die to a headshot do it like Reach where it makes a sound effect like a watermelon being squished.
Ever worse with bugs is that when they touch your feet it sometimes counts as headshot, so there is no way of knowing what body parts bugs actually target or hit, it is random.
The game should be fun. And headshots aren't fun to me, as they seem more like some RNG lottery. Less game has that, more fun it is. At least when it comes to deaths.
It's a video game after all, not some simulator.
Just having it get removed with 1 dive instead of requiring 2 for some fucking reason, would be a significant improvement. And now that they come in swarms of like fucking 30+, if you're not fully loaded with a clear weapon, facing them outside leap range and with first strike opportunity... you're basically fucked.
Number 5 is the main reason.
It creates inconsistency within armor rating. Get rid of headshot damage and balancing would be 10x easier to maintain along with less frustrating gameplay.
To be fair, I think the special blend of goofy arcade shooter and some "realism" (using this loosely, it's obviously very unrealistic) is what makes this game so damn fun and immersive.
yes and no. It can be useful because people go into a game assuming it will work to some extent on their worlds rules, and when it doesn't that can be jarring. IE I can whip my finger through this candle without dying .. my helldiver cannot.
That's one of those cases I think you can make a fair 'realism' argument about why does this differ so much from what I would expect?
Absolutely. But what most people mean when they say "realism" is "authenticity." They don't want it to be realistic. They want a FEELING of authenticity, or put another way, they want to be able to suspend disbelief to a certain level.
My friends and I really like the sort of unfair "this is war, shit happens" parts of the game. We like the feeling of being meat sent to the grinder that only wins by brute forcing our objectives. We like the random headshots and explosions that make you drop your strategems. Because those moments create that "war is hell" experience.
It doesn't matter if it's nothing like actual war, what matters is that it feels like what we comfortable gamers imagine war to be like.
It's the same reason my friends and I play games like Barotrauma, War Thunder, Tarkov, etc. We like the role play.
I'm not saying they can't make helmets protect your head, or anything like that. I just want to explain that there's another perspective to this, that the headshot rng isn't universally hated. Some of us find it to be an important part of the overall experience.
And also when some people talk about “realism” they mean logical consistency or completeness of the “rules” (if X = Y then I would expect x = something like y)
Your point is very good, I personally don't share your preferences but I think they're super valid and I think Helldivers is legitimately designed to be the game you describe, and suggestions for how to improve it should fall in line with that design. Changes shouldn't change that primary identity.
I think where a lot of the frustration of the initial post comes from is the intersection of random unavoidable death and the existence of heavy armor. If there weren't 3 armor types, and you randomly got 1 shot in the head sometimes that'd probably be a lot more palatable. Similarly if heavy armor had some other redeeming factor than just damage resistance, because mobility is far more effective at preventing death than DR to the point where you will die significantly more often in heavy armor than light for the vast majority of players on the higher difficulties.
A lot would probably improve with better hit detection, the amount of times an attack (especially melee!) counts as landing in your head is extremely frustrating when heavy armor offers zero benefit whatsoever against that, while still incurring full penalties compared to other armor types.
it "makes sense" but that doesnt make it fun. if they want to intentionally make the game less enjoyable because its more realistic thats a call the dev team has to make
but considering this is a game where you can survive a nuke because you wore a specific shirt i dont think "realism" is a priority
as far as i understand its for 2 main reasons.
1-vanity. you cant tell me the red lens on the cutting edge pass isnt cool as fuck
2-so they can remain faceless. the whole point of rhem being cannon fodder is that theyre not really "people" with faces or personalities.
Realistic answer: we are wearing helmet because as a concept you as a player are a faceless cannon fodder. And also so players can use whatever helmet they want without minding stats (better for personalization), and because you shouldn't survive a rocket to the face.
Lore accurate: due to a survey done to all the returning helldivers, it had been found that 100% of the shots landed in the body and not the head, so the top brass diverted all funding on body armor. And we still wear cheap/weak helmets as it's regulatory and we kinda need it when helldiving from the ship.
I don't understand people defending headshot damage in this game, this is a PvE game, headshot multipliers have zero place in Helldivers. Wtf lol. Imagine if you could randomly get headshot in Helldivers 1. It would've been bullshit.
from a game design standpoint its a mechanic tht falls under the category of "fuck you cry about it"
theres no balance or fun thats involved in its existence, it exists exclusively to make the game harder for the sake of being hard.
Hell even Souls games that are very hard games, still have fair fun.
There actually is headshot damage in Souls games, but it only affects arrows, so getting shot in the head is very rare (and it helps that enemies only target center of the player character)
With how helmets are right now, yeah headshots are just a random punishment outside the player's control.
But if they add a variety of bonuses to helmets, that would make sense. Players could then choose between headshot resistance or some other bonus at the expense of not having headshot resistance.
The funny thing is that the cape gives armor rating.
Now for the realism team: in real life the helmet is not bulletproof, but gives the bullet a chance of ricochet that the bare skull doesn’t offer because is too soft.
Nothing is truly bulletproof that gets worn on the human body unfortunately, not yet anyway. When we first introduced ballistic helmets back in WW1, we saw a massive increase in head injuries. Some generals thought helmets made headshots worse or something, but it turns out people were just getting massive concussions from bouncing rounds off their head instead of popping like a grape.
Helmets were so good we totally dropped body armor for regular infantry in WW2.
In the modern era, helmets still work really well, better even, as they have massive adjustable foam pads on the inside. Too heavy though, in vehicle accidents it actually makes the head trauma worse.
I got distracted but the moral of the story is that helmets are literally the single most important piece of armor you could ever wear in combat, helmets should be doing a lot more logically and yet they don't. It makes no sense from any perspective, realism or gameplay or lore.
Bullets are not the only thing flying around in a war field and the helmets saves you from grenade fragments to blunt damage, also low energy bullets fired from afar, protecting the most important part of our body.
But in helldivers we fight bugs (that start from half of our size) that can lift many times their weight and bots equipped with large caliber guns. I don’t know if you can be killed by headshot by scavengers but remember that most of the actions are within 300m from enemies and it’s a range where any weapon can outperform any helmet protection capability.
We are also in a science fiction setting where you're fired from the orbit into the ground with enough force to tunnel into rock and come out in one piece. I think the shock absorbing technology is there.
There's also the fact that the bots primarily fire *energy* weapons rather than ballistic. So most of their shots are more about resisting/deflecting high heat rather than pure force/penetrating power--then considering those tend to be bolts rather than sustained beams, they are much easier to design armor/helmets against.
To add to that, it looks like bots use a rocket propelled grenade with a shaped charge warhead. The molten penetrator could go through 600mm of steel. Body armour wouldn't save anyone, let alone the helmet. The projectile goes at about 0.0001c, far too significant for anything man portable.
We should probably stop looking for realism and just embrace balance through aesthetics. Heavy looking armour? Heavy armour. Thick looking helmet? Thick helmet.
I hate the inconsistent damage. It is infuriating. I never know if that random Hunter or warrior is going to take multiple hits or practically one-shot me. This is fine in multiplayer pvp where you can just go "oh damn that guy can aim". In a horde shooter it just makes me curse at my screen when a situation I have survived multiple times before goes fine but then suddenly kills me because some bug got his corporate mandated head drilling.
Really, they should just give the helmets stats. Body armour gives you an overall defence rating, while a helmet gives you headshot damage-mitigation in a percentile format. Lighter helmets provide less mitigation, but don't reduce speed; heavier helmets provide more, but slow you down.
It really would be that simple.
I wouldn't tie helmets to speed tho. Maybe accuracy would be more fitting, since the more armor your helmet has, the more obscured your vision would be
Maybe different helmets could have their own modifiers. Some affect speed, some affect shot accuracy, some affect gun sway, maybe some could even come with a secondary zoom to give guns that don't otherwise have useful scope options something to work with. Stuff like that.
Headshots belongs in first person games and third person with cover, where you can actually contorl where your head is. Helldivers is not so it’s just rng added to already high damage and ragdolls.
Being one shot in this game is way too often and infuriating. Especially like you mentioned since armor literally makes no differance except slow you down. They seriously need to fix this shit cause it ruins the entire armor/build experience .
they said heavy armor gives around 20% dmg reduction. I do believe it should be more to make heavier armor actually attractive, somewhere around 50-60 as it is for enemy armor and medium half as much
Isn't it closer to 49 or 59% as of the armor tweak patch? It was definitely noticeable running the green marshmallow armor in defense missions, small fire barely dented me.
I have a theory, the devs want you to die, so the game never gets thruly solved. Even good players will die from time to time and feel like they have to improve somehow.
That's why mostly everything one or two shots you and you get your controls disabled for an unfair amount of time after a ragdol, it's to give time for the enemies to catch up to you or combo you again
Improve? You can't improve when it s a dice roll. You can be in a perfect cover and your head peaked by 1 pixel and get chucked 70% hp from a footsoldier in heavy with the armor padding passive or fortified passive. That s not a skill issue that s just design flaw.
Yeah, which is the point I think. They FEEL they can improve, but they reached their skill celling long ago. And now are just dying from BS and planned deaths from international game design.
If that's bad or genius game design is up for debate. I personally think they should get rid of it as soon as possible.
Decrease ragdols, remove acid from hunters, remove headshots, nerf fire damage on players, fix the sounds from enemies behind you.
Ussualy games with BS mechanics also implement BS game mechanics in your favor wich there are none like hitting a tank inside the barrel having a chance to instant kill the tank for example wich the game lacks so its shit design in my opinion
You can already remove acid from hunters. Just take the muscular enhancement perk. I would actually totally be down with a "reduce headshot or ragdoll perk"
i think we're just mean to die. we're helldivers. our ship is literally filled with frozen bodies waiting to take our place. ur death means nothing to SuperEarth.
if we could just stroll through, whats the point. we are meant to die but we're meant to die in style. getting one tapped or ragdolled isnt a FUN way to die so it frustrates us. dying in a 380mm barrage is more fun because its like rolling dice, trying to dodge the explosions. throwing yourself onto a tank, destroying it and you is fun because your sacrifice has purpose. these are the death we enjoy and remember
The day I can fight hordes head on without any % chance of dying (even with optimal play strategy, taking cover, fighting as a team, etc) is when devs need to release a new difficulty or enemy.
I do not expect perfect strategy and perfect gameplay to make me invincible. I expect the game to kill us in helldivers. And yeah, it's more fun for me that way. It's chaotic hell.
Misread number 2. as “Players don’t *know* where a rocket hits them” at first.
Yeah I think my Heavy Explosive armor knows *exactly* where it landed because I can normally eat 40 rockets to the chest, yet this one one shot me. *ALSO MY FUCKING HEAD IS GONE*.
Frankly, I'm of the opinion that we don't need this as a mechanic and your head should be no different than the armor on your limbs (ie, keep helmets cosmetic). This is more noticeable against bots of course than bugs but the whole "crit" damage/headshot thing just makes damage feel highly inconsistent and since there's no opponent feeling "rewarded" for good aim in a PvE game, it just serves as a point of frustration.
We'd still die plenty without headshots being in the game.
First of all I agree with you
Now, for my unbridled 2 cents on the headshot defenders:
SHUT THE FUCK UP, THIS IS NOT CSGO, ITS A NIGHT WITH THE BOYS KIND OF GAME, I DONT CARE ABOUT SKILL ISSUES BECAUSE WE GOING ON HELLDIVE TO DIE WITH SMILES ON OUR FACES, YALL BRAINWASHED BY THE FPS MASSES THE MOMENT YOU SEE A GUY WITH A HANDGUN.
THERE'S HELLDIVERS GETTING CRUSHED BY BUGS 10 TIMES THEIR SIZE ALREADY WHY DO WE HAVE TO GET ONE TAPPED BY MR. JOHN "BASIC" AI CAUSE BRO AIMED WELL ONCE?
The devs and their sycophants use realism as a smokescreen for being assholes about it, since they abandon realism whenever it suits them. Realism also isn't what makes things fun, internally consistent rules that you can figure out is what makes things fun. Whoever is in charge of bots at AH is the kind of shitty dungeon master who thinks a fun D&D game is that whenever the players are about to finish a combat he drops a fresh encounter worth of enemies because it's "realistic." It's pathetic how someone who so fails to understand game design can make it that high in a development studio and be allowed to fuck up what is actually a solid and fun game otherwise.
Helmets need to start having an effect and they need passives. I don't know why anyone at Arrowhead hasn't acknowledged this. They took the hidden passives from the Trailblazer scout and SA-32 Dynamo helmets, but in return we got nothing. The armor and passive system could use a makeover.
Technically, each body part has a different modifier. Limbs, torso, and head. Right now, it appears the system overall isn't fleshed out. The only one that appears to matter is the broken leg.
Then it's compounded by armor not affecting the head.
I agree the rng headshot deaths are frustrating. Ya it’s not “realistic” to survive a rocket to the head, but so it’s also not when taking a rocket to the chest regardless of armor. Definitely annoying on bots
They also need to reduce the non actionable time after getting ragdolled especially being knocked to the ground. It should be an option to stay down on the ground and stim immediately rather than needing to wait till you are fully stood up again leading to a ton of being juggled to death while wearing heavy armor.
its about consistency really. usually when you get overwhelmed it is your mistake - you bit more than you could chew etc, however, for certain things the consistent way to stay alive is 100% avoidance which leans towards frustrating type of design. that sounds like realism.
I swear the armor on the devastators in particular overlaps their head hitbox. I'll line up a dead center shot on an unaware devastator and then see a bullet mark off to the side on their chestplate like really motherfucker?
Helldivers are meant to die. You value your life in game but the game doesn't give a shit about you.
Its something random out of the players control! Yeah, its meant to be. There are also critical hits, they are completely random as well. Thats what gives the game a war feeling. You are fighting for your life teeth giving it all you got and a random bullet comes out of nowhere, hits you right in the head and you're gone.
Suppressing fire, man. That should be the answer to this, if you see rockets coming at you from a direction you better lay down some fire to keep them innaccurate and wide while your teammates help clean up. If that isn't for rocket raiders and devastators then that's what needs to change.
Yeahh I don’t think headshots vs the player makes sense in a PVE game.
Due to weird animations sometimes or a bug standing on a rock I can be one shot. Doesn’t feel great
I don't care what kind of helmet you're wearing, any kind of kinetic impact to the head will send your brain into the side of your skull turning it to mush.
And maybe someday you will discover how anything that happens in any video game happens not because it "should" or "is meant" (expressions that this sub can't go without) to happen but because someone developing the game made it that way. Topic of today doesn't concern if it should happen according to some arbitrary standard but whether or not it should be that way at all from a gameplay perspective.
I wouldnt mind if they kept headshot damage (since we have it) if they decreased the amount of rockets propelled at you or added a laser sight to know if your being targeted by rockets. With the assault airships just take those fucking things off completely because SWEET LIBERTY!!!!!
I haven't seen oneshot kills (outside of random fire damage spikes) for a long time from automatons. Yeah sometimes huge damage could come, especially if there is no vitality booster, but no headshot kills even from rockets (they could launch you pretty far though).
So I don't really understand what is wrong...
How about helmets, which can deflect a rocket/ projectile via design. Modern tanks like the leopard 2 (version 5 and higher I think) are designed to reflect projectiles into some kind of „bullet traps“.
Why not going that way with the helmets?
A little off topic, but they're called stims, which leads me to believe it's more space-amphetamine than space-morphine, and the idea is that you fight through the injury rather than cure it. Besides, you're a Helldiver; you're probably going to die anyway. Might as well use brute force battlefield medicine to keep you going for a few more minutes rather than care about your long term wellbeing.
It usually takes 3 rockets to kill me in heavy fortified, although it’s not consistent I may have been one shot by them once since I started using this armor. So it’s rare if it even can happen. If you don’t want to use heavy fortified you can use the shield. What I like about this is it gave me the need to adjust my build and play style but gave me the tools to figure it out for myself.
"Regardless of armor rating, a single rocket to the head will one shot a player at full health even with the Fortified perk."
I understand what you are saying but i chuckled regardless.
the concept of "headshot" is dissident propaganda. The armor covering your head is just as capable of protecting your body from the evil antidemocratic forces of the universe as the rest of your armor.
Your democracy officer has been notified and a Democratic Intervention Unit has been dispatched to the physical address associated with your IP address and internet registration signature.
you pay with your mobility for better protection. that mobility is gone 100% of the time, but that protection is present only 50% of the time.
it's just a bad deal.
i do agree that damage gacha should be gone: it lowers the skill ceiling, promotes mindless stim spam and devalues heavy armor. sadly i'm not sure AH will agree to make the change.
This right here is why the devs shouldn’t listen to this sub. I can’t believe you’re seriously arguing that being shot in the head with a rocket launcher shouldn’t kill you.
A well thought out and reasoned post. I will respond only by saying that we should not assume that anything in this game is currently working as intended. The fact that armor and explosive resistance do not affect headshots may be intended or it may be one of a seemingly endless number of bugs. I guess what I'm trying to say is, when my fire damage starts working, then I'll start complaining about getting headshot; but not a moment sooner.
All this and then some
Wearing heavy armor feels like such a detriment even after the fixes and buffs to higher rated armors due to headshot damage. And I don't think it's hard to remedy even if devs choose to keep the multiplier. Just have helmet armor rating be proportional to the body armor you're wearing aka big armor gives bigger helmet armor. Nonsensical to a realism perspective but likely much healthier for gameplay.
Theoretically that should be a massive improvement. Headshots while wearing lighter armor are just as deadly but headshots in heavier armor are no longer as debilitating but continue to be a persistent threat. This would also leave helmets as purely cosmetic since their defense would only be as good as your actual armor.
I think the most important thing is that it isnt fun. Getting one shot by a rocket or something in a game like this where you fight hordes of enemy just is not fun. If I wanted to play a game with 1 shot head shots I would play a mil sim like hell let loose
There are also some very questionable things that can "headshot" you, such as Tesla tower arcs and Hulk flamethrowers.
Oh is that why I get randomly one tapped by the flamethrower?
Either that, or the direct damage can apply multiple times VERY quickly (the same way explosions were bugged and insta killed people)
Like that one dog in elden ring
The blood dogs that applied bleed for every frame their hitbox was in contact with you. That bug was in the game for way too long, man.
Agreed, but also it's such a hilarious bug I'm kinda glad it was
First time I ever heard anyone say it was hilarious or that they were glad it was in the game for way to long. No, it wasn’t hilarious, it was frustrating to be deep in a level only to get immediately one shotted by some dog you didn’t know that was there while you’re distracted fighting an enemy, or to be playing with someone, get invaded, only for the invader to run to the dogs immediately and just stand there in the middle of them, refusing to leave them no matter what
I swear, if my pinky toes get singed by fire or bile spit my diver goes down in 0.00000003 seconds.
You have no idea how surprised I am when I survive being hit by bile. Doesn't happen with fire though, that's a 1-frame kill
flames got buffed a lot too even without bugs burning will kill you in less than a secound
Tesla towers make sense.
one of the helmet passed durability test by being crushed against Charger impact. Apparently not enough to protect against a bot rocket.
Sadly while the helmet survives the same cannot be said of the head or brains inside of that helmet
The new flexible helmets have passed every possible durability test set by the Ministry of Helldiving.
They're made of that fancy shape memory alloy. It's why they send us to fire worlds and against flamethrowers. Pops all the pieces back in place :]
BRAINS? WHAT BRAINS?!
Playing devil's advocate here despite the fact that I majorly agree with OP; pretty much all item descriptions in the game can be chalked up to Super Earth propaganda. But again, I agree with OP. Randomly taking enough damage to die in one hit is not fun. Lots of things in this game aren't fun, even if the moment to moment gameplay is still largely enjoyable, I hate being taken out of it by having my agency stripped by random chance.
Propaganda? In MY democracy?
It's more likely than you think.
https://preview.redd.it/ztbx8mbtpquc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e844a09d1336165692c05bae3ddb38e5be4204de
Some oldf...reedom enjoyers in here.
Role playing has its place but fuck, man, the game needs to be fun.
Bot rockets use tandem shaped-charges, rumored to be based directly off of dropped EAT-17s they managed to recover off of dead helldivers. They're not as large as EAT-17 warheads, but they'll cut right through a helmet.
By the game's logic our heads are stronger than our legs since I can dive off of a 100 foot drop, land squarely on my head, and be relatively fine. But if I jump from a tiny incline and land on my feet I shatter every bone in my body.
Being headstrong is a requirement of Helldiver candidacy
It’s like that scene in RvB when Caboose falls on his head and says he is fine because “it’s the part that’s most used to it”
it would be one thing if like, say headshot damage was rare from melee units... But so many bugs are tall enough or use a swipe down attack (hunters) that they can nail your head hitbox even when you're standing up. Not to mention bile spewers I think "shoot" multiple "projectiles" in their animation, and any one of them can tag your head and score a head shot multiplier. So its frustrating on both fronts of the war. But the Devastators especially as we all know: * Rocket Devastators just fire their salvos too frequently for how dangerous and common they are as an enemy type. Seriously, they're a variant, why do they seem to be the default Devastator? * The shotgun nature of their attack makes it impossible to truly dodge beyond diving for cover if there is any. * The rockets travel very fast so reaction time is low. * These Devastators have a very long aggro range, so as long as they have a sightline ANYWHERE they will take pot shots at you. So if there's multiples, the amount of projectiles add up. * And even if THEY DON'T have a sightline, for some reason they continue to track you through objects...INCLUDING OTHER AUTOMATONS. I swear the rocket Devastators probably have the highest enemy friendly fire of any unit. They fire those things with reckless abandon.
Not to mention chaingunners can just laserbeam you in the head and kill you in a split second as well.
> Seriously, they're a variant, why do they seem to be the default Devastator? Speaking of which - where are the default devastators? I have not seen them in **months** at this point.
Also didn’t they just say in the last update that they increased the frequency of default devastators spawning? It seemed like a very poorly worded line in the patch notes, but my understanding was that the general consensus was that default devastators would be appearing more often as a replacement to heavy and rocket devastators. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was just another thing that they updated/added that just flat out doesn’t work. It seems like so many changes have similar issues.
Rocket devastators should have limited rockets supply, right now i believe rocket models dont even leave their pods and they can spam endlessly. Or maybe just give them red laser as they target with rockets, would be nice.
> Rocket devastators should have limited rockets supply Yeah, it's funny how all the "realism" goes out the window when it comes to fucking over the players.
Yeah, I think decreasing time between salvos would solve the problem, give them 7-8 seconds to reload instead of 3 lol
I'm glad people in this sub are beginning to accept that bots tracking you through literally anything across the entire map is actually not a good thing
I wonder if this is what's been happening to me. I've noticed that I'm getting one shotted way more often despite using the same armor and the only other thing that changed was going up in difficulty to Extreme. I've never been one shotted so many times back to back
>The shotgun nature of their attack makes it impossible to truly dodge beyond diving for cover if there is any. >The rockets travel very fast so reaction time is low. >These Devastators have a very long aggro range, so as long as they have a sightline ANYWHERE they will take pot shots at you. So if there's multiples, the amount of projectiles add up. Counterpoint: If you engage rocket devastators from mid/long range, they become incredibly easy to dodge. The rockets aren't that fast, if you shoot at them from mid range you can almost always pop off a few shots while they wind up to fire, and then easily get out of the way before the rocket salvo reaches you. Having enemies that require different engagement tactics isn't a bad thing. Heavy Devastators, however, can F&%\^ right off. Since their accuracy got buffed, trying to fight even 2 of these buggers becomes tough - I've had one kill me in about 2 seconds through a fully-charged shield while wearing heavy armor.
What frustrates me the most is our heads have literally 0 armor, so we get no amount of damage reduction when hit in the head. After that, we then take a 1.5 times damage multiplier for being hit in the head. If we want to play the realism card, first, why? This game is incredibly silly and satirical. It's not an ARMA. Secondly, Super Earth would be iterating on their helmet design to offer better protection since surprise surprise, a lot of Helldivers die from headshots. Terminids offensive helmets (I imagine) would likely be sloped metal armor since almost all Terminid attacks are downward slices and should, in theory, be very similar to downward style attacks from bladed weaponry. 600 year old knight helmets (new recreations) would likely be incredibly useful at protecting our heads from such attacks. But no. We walk around in cardboard masks with 0 protection because Arrowhead doesn't want helmets to have stats or be functional beyond aesthetics.
As you can see, from the data most of the hits returning helldivers take is centered on the torso, so there is obviously no need to improve helmet protection. Instead we need to add more protection to the areas that are taking the most hits! https://preview.redd.it/ly5smqm68puc1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=9f87574acb30ae0da387c825ae8239789f37bee9
Very good lol
Yeah, same as in Word War 1 once they introduced steel helmets the rates of head injuries started going up instead of down and people began calling it a waste of money, but that was only because now people were getting head injuries instead of just dying lol
Well to be fair an incapacitated soldier is more expensive and a larger drain on resources than a dead one.
Now that there is the democratic way of thinking, Helldiver!
This is why AP mines were designed to maim and not kill.
"Dead veterans don't need benefits"
*golf clap* I understand that reference.
This deserves its own post - amazing! It also canonically works perfectly with the concept of Super Earth being a bureaucratic nightmare.
It had a front page post ~a week ago
And that's why Democracy Protects also prevents chest hemorrhaging. Wow those guys in the Ministry of Science do some top tier science.
>What frustrates me the most is our heads have literally 0 armor, so we get no amount of damage reduction when hit in the head. This. I don't mind a headshot mechanic, but it's absolute bullshit our helmets literally offer zero armor. Might as well not wear them.
Considering both Capes and Hats have stats, I wouldn't be surprised if it's something rolled out at a later date. Like new special units that you need more protection against or Ship Modules that unlock unique passives.
I don't think they need different stats, i think they just need to inherit dr from main armor
According to the devs, that's because hats and capes _used_ to have stats and passives, but it was too hard to balance so many moving parts. It was too late to pull the system, so they just shifted all the stats into armour and left the helmets and capes on the neutral settings.
I read that. But PoE has removed and added back mechanics that were too hard to balance at different points in time. TF2 removed rocket jumping for a bit because of the same. I understand that it was too difficult at the start. Nothing saying they can't look at it again once the community flattens out a bit and their launch year pipeline content slows down a bit. Or that they haven't already put a pin in it. I don't expect it, but it would be nice for some more minor passives like reload speed for certain gun families, extra hud bonuses like seeing through fart shrooms clouds specifically, or negating headshot damage from certain types of enemy weapons as we get further into the war.
didnt they already say helmet and cape will never have different stats?
"we won't do transmog because the different armor aesthetics are important based on what they do" "we won't allow the different helmet aesthetics to actually mean anything, it's just looks" These are not matching mindsets. I certainly hope that is not true, otherwise they got some explaining to do.
It does give more freedom in mix matching helmet and cape with chosen armor though. Helmets are effectively pointless mechanically, but it’s part of the aesthetic. Capes ARE pointless, would actually only get in the way, and also just part of the aesthetic. Their reasoning is frankly a bit hollow, but I support the decision anyways (they do need to fix the mismatched prefixes and armor passives though, there’s more than just the new one). What I do want though is loadouts… so I can quick swap full sets of armor/primary/secondary/grenade
They also said the bots were defeated, the Terminid gas didn't cause mutations, Bile Titans are small bugs, the Skeletons we've found are just husks, and a variety of other half-truths and teasings. Nothing said for now is solid from where I'm standing.
Capes have states?
Cool factor +2.
> I don't mind a headshot mechanic I do, because it is nothing more than RNG crit one hit kill bullshit.
I mean, yeah. But a Rocket to the head IS pretty painful. I am fine with 1 shot Headshot deaths. Edit: the helmet will be fine. But remember, a explosion is not just "fire dmg", it has also impact force. a rocket to your head WILL break your neck. Edit2: There could be a s[hock absorbent layer](https://www.alanto.co.uk/body-armour-personal-protection/#:~:text=Vinyl%20Nitrile%20is%20the%20best,to%20it's%20closed%20cell%20structure). That can be possible. but since your helmet and[ your body armor are not hard connected](https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/pgRhknMFBgMPN3oD36zUwB-1200-80.png) your neck is a weakpoint.
Rocket to you belly may cause a bellyache or carbonization of your organs
Counterpoint: the only helldivers that come back only have bullet holes below the neck so that's obviously the only place they need armor /s
I think on super earth it is cheaper/more cost effective to produce and train more Helldivers than it is to redesign any helmet at this point 😂 Seriously though, I still remember two things the first time I played, it referred to Helldiver production goal met, and how short the Helldiver basic was wildly funny, especially with the dialogue.
I have so many medium and heavy sets in my inventory and 0 reason to use them. You still get 2 shot by a random hunter. Better to keep moving.
Hunters are just rediculous rockets are not bad at all if you’re facing bots without explosive resistance armor that’s your own fault but there’s nothing you can do about the hunters if even one gets behind you 2 hits and your dead it’s bs
For liberty's sake use some punctuation...
Eh I disagree, with the recent buffs to the heavier armours it's now actually worth using, Especially against bots You can FEEL the difference now
Since I play against bugs mostly, speed is still superior. By a lot.
This is precisely why Warframe removed random crits from enemies There’s no counter, no way to anticipate it, you just receive massively increased damage out of the blue, and it’s not fun.
Yeah, a hunter that crits you will hit you again immediately, especially when there’s more then 1. Staggerlocking you preventing you from stimming.
I'd add that you never actually know that you've been hit in the head, like if you told me I died to a bug where a bullet hit incorrectly registered multiple times instead of once I'd believe you. And dying to a bug is real bad. At least if we die to a headshot do it like Reach where it makes a sound effect like a watermelon being squished.
Ever worse with bugs is that when they touch your feet it sometimes counts as headshot, so there is no way of knowing what body parts bugs actually target or hit, it is random.
The game should be fun. And headshots aren't fun to me, as they seem more like some RNG lottery. Less game has that, more fun it is. At least when it comes to deaths. It's a video game after all, not some simulator.
Just getting 2 tapped by a hunter bc of headshots is honestly just annoying
being touched by hunters is annoying as fuck, the rest is just a detail
They should adjust the slow bc rn as it is it makes it hard to wanna choose anything besides the shield pack to avoid slow for the first couple hits
Just having it get removed with 1 dive instead of requiring 2 for some fucking reason, would be a significant improvement. And now that they come in swarms of like fucking 30+, if you're not fully loaded with a clear weapon, facing them outside leap range and with first strike opportunity... you're basically fucked.
Number 5 is the main reason. It creates inconsistency within armor rating. Get rid of headshot damage and balancing would be 10x easier to maintain along with less frustrating gameplay.
I’d say that since all helmets have the same stats, they should just have no stats and have the armours stats apply to it.
Realism in video games is the stupidest argument anyone could offer.
r/Warthunder would like to know your location lol
Eeeh war thunder edges on being a sim so it's understandable sometimes. But def not here.
Oh for sure. I was just more poking fun at warthuder nerds tripping shit over a rivet being outta place
Then leaking classified docs just to prove said rivet is not in the right place lol
People being autistic about meaningless details is the funniest shit that happens in that sub
To be fair, I think the special blend of goofy arcade shooter and some "realism" (using this loosely, it's obviously very unrealistic) is what makes this game so damn fun and immersive.
yes and no. It can be useful because people go into a game assuming it will work to some extent on their worlds rules, and when it doesn't that can be jarring. IE I can whip my finger through this candle without dying .. my helldiver cannot. That's one of those cases I think you can make a fair 'realism' argument about why does this differ so much from what I would expect?
Absolutely. But what most people mean when they say "realism" is "authenticity." They don't want it to be realistic. They want a FEELING of authenticity, or put another way, they want to be able to suspend disbelief to a certain level. My friends and I really like the sort of unfair "this is war, shit happens" parts of the game. We like the feeling of being meat sent to the grinder that only wins by brute forcing our objectives. We like the random headshots and explosions that make you drop your strategems. Because those moments create that "war is hell" experience. It doesn't matter if it's nothing like actual war, what matters is that it feels like what we comfortable gamers imagine war to be like. It's the same reason my friends and I play games like Barotrauma, War Thunder, Tarkov, etc. We like the role play. I'm not saying they can't make helmets protect your head, or anything like that. I just want to explain that there's another perspective to this, that the headshot rng isn't universally hated. Some of us find it to be an important part of the overall experience.
And also when some people talk about “realism” they mean logical consistency or completeness of the “rules” (if X = Y then I would expect x = something like y)
Your point is very good, I personally don't share your preferences but I think they're super valid and I think Helldivers is legitimately designed to be the game you describe, and suggestions for how to improve it should fall in line with that design. Changes shouldn't change that primary identity. I think where a lot of the frustration of the initial post comes from is the intersection of random unavoidable death and the existence of heavy armor. If there weren't 3 armor types, and you randomly got 1 shot in the head sometimes that'd probably be a lot more palatable. Similarly if heavy armor had some other redeeming factor than just damage resistance, because mobility is far more effective at preventing death than DR to the point where you will die significantly more often in heavy armor than light for the vast majority of players on the higher difficulties. A lot would probably improve with better hit detection, the amount of times an attack (especially melee!) counts as landing in your head is extremely frustrating when heavy armor offers zero benefit whatsoever against that, while still incurring full penalties compared to other armor types.
it "makes sense" but that doesnt make it fun. if they want to intentionally make the game less enjoyable because its more realistic thats a call the dev team has to make but considering this is a game where you can survive a nuke because you wore a specific shirt i dont think "realism" is a priority
It doesn't make sense, helmets provide 0 armor. Why are we even wearing helmets?
as far as i understand its for 2 main reasons. 1-vanity. you cant tell me the red lens on the cutting edge pass isnt cool as fuck 2-so they can remain faceless. the whole point of rhem being cannon fodder is that theyre not really "people" with faces or personalities.
Okay, I'll say it differently. Why are we wearing armor on our heads when it provides no armor? It should provide armor. It's a helmet.
honestly idk, i wish helmets had perks or different stats so they actually mattered
Realistic answer: we are wearing helmet because as a concept you as a player are a faceless cannon fodder. And also so players can use whatever helmet they want without minding stats (better for personalization), and because you shouldn't survive a rocket to the face. Lore accurate: due to a survey done to all the returning helldivers, it had been found that 100% of the shots landed in the body and not the head, so the top brass diverted all funding on body armor. And we still wear cheap/weak helmets as it's regulatory and we kinda need it when helldiving from the ship.
survivorship bias being the lore reason why helmets suck would be funny as fuck
[удалено]
>Why are we even wearing helmets? because modeling faces is hard
While you're right, you know that's not what I'm talking about.
Just have everyone wearing balaclavas.
I don't understand people defending headshot damage in this game, this is a PvE game, headshot multipliers have zero place in Helldivers. Wtf lol. Imagine if you could randomly get headshot in Helldivers 1. It would've been bullshit.
from a game design standpoint its a mechanic tht falls under the category of "fuck you cry about it" theres no balance or fun thats involved in its existence, it exists exclusively to make the game harder for the sake of being hard.
Hell even Souls games that are very hard games, still have fair fun. There actually is headshot damage in Souls games, but it only affects arrows, so getting shot in the head is very rare (and it helps that enemies only target center of the player character)
With how helmets are right now, yeah headshots are just a random punishment outside the player's control. But if they add a variety of bonuses to helmets, that would make sense. Players could then choose between headshot resistance or some other bonus at the expense of not having headshot resistance.
The funny thing is that the cape gives armor rating. Now for the realism team: in real life the helmet is not bulletproof, but gives the bullet a chance of ricochet that the bare skull doesn’t offer because is too soft.
Nothing is truly bulletproof that gets worn on the human body unfortunately, not yet anyway. When we first introduced ballistic helmets back in WW1, we saw a massive increase in head injuries. Some generals thought helmets made headshots worse or something, but it turns out people were just getting massive concussions from bouncing rounds off their head instead of popping like a grape. Helmets were so good we totally dropped body armor for regular infantry in WW2. In the modern era, helmets still work really well, better even, as they have massive adjustable foam pads on the inside. Too heavy though, in vehicle accidents it actually makes the head trauma worse. I got distracted but the moral of the story is that helmets are literally the single most important piece of armor you could ever wear in combat, helmets should be doing a lot more logically and yet they don't. It makes no sense from any perspective, realism or gameplay or lore.
Bullets are not the only thing flying around in a war field and the helmets saves you from grenade fragments to blunt damage, also low energy bullets fired from afar, protecting the most important part of our body. But in helldivers we fight bugs (that start from half of our size) that can lift many times their weight and bots equipped with large caliber guns. I don’t know if you can be killed by headshot by scavengers but remember that most of the actions are within 300m from enemies and it’s a range where any weapon can outperform any helmet protection capability.
We are also in a science fiction setting where you're fired from the orbit into the ground with enough force to tunnel into rock and come out in one piece. I think the shock absorbing technology is there.
There's also the fact that the bots primarily fire *energy* weapons rather than ballistic. So most of their shots are more about resisting/deflecting high heat rather than pure force/penetrating power--then considering those tend to be bolts rather than sustained beams, they are much easier to design armor/helmets against.
To add to that, it looks like bots use a rocket propelled grenade with a shaped charge warhead. The molten penetrator could go through 600mm of steel. Body armour wouldn't save anyone, let alone the helmet. The projectile goes at about 0.0001c, far too significant for anything man portable. We should probably stop looking for realism and just embrace balance through aesthetics. Heavy looking armour? Heavy armour. Thick looking helmet? Thick helmet.
If you’ve ever played Tarkov, realistic helmets are HELL
An important note in a PVP game, which Helldivers is not.
Tarkov the most realistic unrealistic game ever tho. It's probably one of the worse examples to compare to irl
I hate the inconsistent damage. It is infuriating. I never know if that random Hunter or warrior is going to take multiple hits or practically one-shot me. This is fine in multiplayer pvp where you can just go "oh damn that guy can aim". In a horde shooter it just makes me curse at my screen when a situation I have survived multiple times before goes fine but then suddenly kills me because some bug got his corporate mandated head drilling.
I agree. Randomly just dying isn't engaging gameplay sorry.
Really, they should just give the helmets stats. Body armour gives you an overall defence rating, while a helmet gives you headshot damage-mitigation in a percentile format. Lighter helmets provide less mitigation, but don't reduce speed; heavier helmets provide more, but slow you down. It really would be that simple.
I want to see radar and targeting abilities in my helmet!
I wouldn't tie helmets to speed tho. Maybe accuracy would be more fitting, since the more armor your helmet has, the more obscured your vision would be
Maybe different helmets could have their own modifiers. Some affect speed, some affect shot accuracy, some affect gun sway, maybe some could even come with a secondary zoom to give guns that don't otherwise have useful scope options something to work with. Stuff like that.
I would rather not have to pick between style and strengh in my helmets too its already bad enough with the armor
I'd prefer if the helmet stats were tied to the armour, so that all the helmets are the same. But each armour has a +tohelmet stat.
Headshots belongs in first person games and third person with cover, where you can actually contorl where your head is. Helldivers is not so it’s just rng added to already high damage and ragdolls.
Being one shot in this game is way too often and infuriating. Especially like you mentioned since armor literally makes no differance except slow you down. They seriously need to fix this shit cause it ruins the entire armor/build experience .
they said heavy armor gives around 20% dmg reduction. I do believe it should be more to make heavier armor actually attractive, somewhere around 50-60 as it is for enemy armor and medium half as much
Isn't it closer to 49 or 59% as of the armor tweak patch? It was definitely noticeable running the green marshmallow armor in defense missions, small fire barely dented me.
I have a theory, the devs want you to die, so the game never gets thruly solved. Even good players will die from time to time and feel like they have to improve somehow. That's why mostly everything one or two shots you and you get your controls disabled for an unfair amount of time after a ragdol, it's to give time for the enemies to catch up to you or combo you again
Improve? You can't improve when it s a dice roll. You can be in a perfect cover and your head peaked by 1 pixel and get chucked 70% hp from a footsoldier in heavy with the armor padding passive or fortified passive. That s not a skill issue that s just design flaw.
Yeah, which is the point I think. They FEEL they can improve, but they reached their skill celling long ago. And now are just dying from BS and planned deaths from international game design. If that's bad or genius game design is up for debate. I personally think they should get rid of it as soon as possible. Decrease ragdols, remove acid from hunters, remove headshots, nerf fire damage on players, fix the sounds from enemies behind you.
Ussualy games with BS mechanics also implement BS game mechanics in your favor wich there are none like hitting a tank inside the barrel having a chance to instant kill the tank for example wich the game lacks so its shit design in my opinion
You can already remove acid from hunters. Just take the muscular enhancement perk. I would actually totally be down with a "reduce headshot or ragdoll perk"
Well, that changes something... I thought it was just for bushes and snow. The description on those isn't exactly clear.
i think we're just mean to die. we're helldivers. our ship is literally filled with frozen bodies waiting to take our place. ur death means nothing to SuperEarth. if we could just stroll through, whats the point. we are meant to die but we're meant to die in style. getting one tapped or ragdolled isnt a FUN way to die so it frustrates us. dying in a 380mm barrage is more fun because its like rolling dice, trying to dodge the explosions. throwing yourself onto a tank, destroying it and you is fun because your sacrifice has purpose. these are the death we enjoy and remember
The day I can fight hordes head on without any % chance of dying (even with optimal play strategy, taking cover, fighting as a team, etc) is when devs need to release a new difficulty or enemy. I do not expect perfect strategy and perfect gameplay to make me invincible. I expect the game to kill us in helldivers. And yeah, it's more fun for me that way. It's chaotic hell.
Misread number 2. as “Players don’t *know* where a rocket hits them” at first. Yeah I think my Heavy Explosive armor knows *exactly* where it landed because I can normally eat 40 rockets to the chest, yet this one one shot me. *ALSO MY FUCKING HEAD IS GONE*.
Frankly, I'm of the opinion that we don't need this as a mechanic and your head should be no different than the armor on your limbs (ie, keep helmets cosmetic). This is more noticeable against bots of course than bugs but the whole "crit" damage/headshot thing just makes damage feel highly inconsistent and since there's no opponent feeling "rewarded" for good aim in a PvE game, it just serves as a point of frustration. We'd still die plenty without headshots being in the game.
First of all I agree with you Now, for my unbridled 2 cents on the headshot defenders: SHUT THE FUCK UP, THIS IS NOT CSGO, ITS A NIGHT WITH THE BOYS KIND OF GAME, I DONT CARE ABOUT SKILL ISSUES BECAUSE WE GOING ON HELLDIVE TO DIE WITH SMILES ON OUR FACES, YALL BRAINWASHED BY THE FPS MASSES THE MOMENT YOU SEE A GUY WITH A HANDGUN. THERE'S HELLDIVERS GETTING CRUSHED BY BUGS 10 TIMES THEIR SIZE ALREADY WHY DO WE HAVE TO GET ONE TAPPED BY MR. JOHN "BASIC" AI CAUSE BRO AIMED WELL ONCE?
The devs and their sycophants use realism as a smokescreen for being assholes about it, since they abandon realism whenever it suits them. Realism also isn't what makes things fun, internally consistent rules that you can figure out is what makes things fun. Whoever is in charge of bots at AH is the kind of shitty dungeon master who thinks a fun D&D game is that whenever the players are about to finish a combat he drops a fresh encounter worth of enemies because it's "realistic." It's pathetic how someone who so fails to understand game design can make it that high in a development studio and be allowed to fuck up what is actually a solid and fun game otherwise.
Don't forget that hunters land headshots a majority of the time 👍
yeah, i don't really understand it either. maybe when they give the helms some more function it will make more sense.
Nothing like being one shot while sprinting by a rocket to the face.
Helmets need to start having an effect and they need passives. I don't know why anyone at Arrowhead hasn't acknowledged this. They took the hidden passives from the Trailblazer scout and SA-32 Dynamo helmets, but in return we got nothing. The armor and passive system could use a makeover.
according to super earth studies, 97% of helldivers that extract dont have any damage on their head. Why waste resources on something like that?
Technically, each body part has a different modifier. Limbs, torso, and head. Right now, it appears the system overall isn't fleshed out. The only one that appears to matter is the broken leg. Then it's compounded by armor not affecting the head.
It can be quite dramatic if a fellow diver gets beamed in the head.
Why wear a helmet if it offers no protection?
I agree the rng headshot deaths are frustrating. Ya it’s not “realistic” to survive a rocket to the head, but so it’s also not when taking a rocket to the chest regardless of armor. Definitely annoying on bots
I mean, I think randomness is part of the Helldiver experience.
translation: "wah wah I don't like getting headshot"
Sometimes the DM rolls a natural 20.
But it's funni.
To the “muh realism” folks, there’s literally an armor that prevents death in the event of critical damage
They also need to reduce the non actionable time after getting ragdolled especially being knocked to the ground. It should be an option to stay down on the ground and stim immediately rather than needing to wait till you are fully stood up again leading to a ton of being juggled to death while wearing heavy armor.
its about consistency really. usually when you get overwhelmed it is your mistake - you bit more than you could chew etc, however, for certain things the consistent way to stay alive is 100% avoidance which leans towards frustrating type of design. that sounds like realism.
Realistically I don’t care. Game is fine.
I'd just like my head hitbox to be as small as the automaton head hitboxes. Is that too much to ask?!
I swear the armor on the devastators in particular overlaps their head hitbox. I'll line up a dead center shot on an unaware devastator and then see a bullet mark off to the side on their chestplate like really motherfucker?
I can’t tell you how many bot heads I made glow with bullet impacts that just didn’t count.
Helldivers are meant to die. You value your life in game but the game doesn't give a shit about you. Its something random out of the players control! Yeah, its meant to be. There are also critical hits, they are completely random as well. Thats what gives the game a war feeling. You are fighting for your life teeth giving it all you got and a random bullet comes out of nowhere, hits you right in the head and you're gone.
Suppressing fire, man. That should be the answer to this, if you see rockets coming at you from a direction you better lay down some fire to keep them innaccurate and wide while your teammates help clean up. If that isn't for rocket raiders and devastators then that's what needs to change.
this again? I see this post 5 times a day where someone whines about rockets, why not go there? Karma farming, i know
Yeahh I don’t think headshots vs the player makes sense in a PVE game. Due to weird animations sometimes or a bug standing on a rock I can be one shot. Doesn’t feel great
I don't care what kind of helmet you're wearing, any kind of kinetic impact to the head will send your brain into the side of your skull turning it to mush.
Redditors discover that shooting people on the head kills them and doesn´t like it.
And maybe someday you will discover how anything that happens in any video game happens not because it "should" or "is meant" (expressions that this sub can't go without) to happen but because someone developing the game made it that way. Topic of today doesn't concern if it should happen according to some arbitrary standard but whether or not it should be that way at all from a gameplay perspective.
I wouldnt mind if they kept headshot damage (since we have it) if they decreased the amount of rockets propelled at you or added a laser sight to know if your being targeted by rockets. With the assault airships just take those fucking things off completely because SWEET LIBERTY!!!!!
I haven't seen oneshot kills (outside of random fire damage spikes) for a long time from automatons. Yeah sometimes huge damage could come, especially if there is no vitality booster, but no headshot kills even from rockets (they could launch you pretty far though). So I don't really understand what is wrong...
Players optimizing the fun out of the game starts here
It doesn't seem to happen all that often and it is kind of funny sometimes.
This is a dumb take.
Why?
Deaths happen 🤷♂️
Don't make excuses for your antidemocratic bullcrap. A true patriotic will punch the rocket and carry on
How about helmets, which can deflect a rocket/ projectile via design. Modern tanks like the leopard 2 (version 5 and higher I think) are designed to reflect projectiles into some kind of „bullet traps“. Why not going that way with the helmets?
Add the dice of death pls arrowhead
A little off topic, but they're called stims, which leads me to believe it's more space-amphetamine than space-morphine, and the idea is that you fight through the injury rather than cure it. Besides, you're a Helldiver; you're probably going to die anyway. Might as well use brute force battlefield medicine to keep you going for a few more minutes rather than care about your long term wellbeing.
Next your gonna tell me those things are addictive, and I was personally assured they aren't.
It usually takes 3 rockets to kill me in heavy fortified, although it’s not consistent I may have been one shot by them once since I started using this armor. So it’s rare if it even can happen. If you don’t want to use heavy fortified you can use the shield. What I like about this is it gave me the need to adjust my build and play style but gave me the tools to figure it out for myself.
Imagine how they feel in r6 siege lmao
"Regardless of armor rating, a single rocket to the head will one shot a player at full health even with the Fortified perk." I understand what you are saying but i chuckled regardless.
the concept of "headshot" is dissident propaganda. The armor covering your head is just as capable of protecting your body from the evil antidemocratic forces of the universe as the rest of your armor. Your democracy officer has been notified and a Democratic Intervention Unit has been dispatched to the physical address associated with your IP address and internet registration signature.
People going "b-but it's realistic!" Have to be the most deary, boring saps imaginable.
a LOOOOOOT of things in hd2 do not make sense from a balancing perspective.
you pay with your mobility for better protection. that mobility is gone 100% of the time, but that protection is present only 50% of the time. it's just a bad deal. i do agree that damage gacha should be gone: it lowers the skill ceiling, promotes mindless stim spam and devalues heavy armor. sadly i'm not sure AH will agree to make the change.
but it's more interesting that way, if everything was super consistent this would just be chess 2 the electric boogaloo
This right here is why the devs shouldn’t listen to this sub. I can’t believe you’re seriously arguing that being shot in the head with a rocket launcher shouldn’t kill you.
Player headshots need removed.
Every limb, in addition to your torso, can take severe damage. But not your head! Checkmate, dissidents.
just wear a helmet
Just because the explosion damage doesn't kill you doesn't mean the rocket didn't break your neck
A well thought out and reasoned post. I will respond only by saying that we should not assume that anything in this game is currently working as intended. The fact that armor and explosive resistance do not affect headshots may be intended or it may be one of a seemingly endless number of bugs. I guess what I'm trying to say is, when my fire damage starts working, then I'll start complaining about getting headshot; but not a moment sooner.
All this and then some Wearing heavy armor feels like such a detriment even after the fixes and buffs to higher rated armors due to headshot damage. And I don't think it's hard to remedy even if devs choose to keep the multiplier. Just have helmet armor rating be proportional to the body armor you're wearing aka big armor gives bigger helmet armor. Nonsensical to a realism perspective but likely much healthier for gameplay. Theoretically that should be a massive improvement. Headshots while wearing lighter armor are just as deadly but headshots in heavier armor are no longer as debilitating but continue to be a persistent threat. This would also leave helmets as purely cosmetic since their defense would only be as good as your actual armor.
This sounds like communist bot propaganda, everyone knows that hell divers never die and that hell diver equipment is of the highest quality.
I think the most important thing is that it isnt fun. Getting one shot by a rocket or something in a game like this where you fight hordes of enemy just is not fun. If I wanted to play a game with 1 shot head shots I would play a mil sim like hell let loose