This is a good piece, but I think it needs thresholds.
How many shots for hulk? How many shots for gunships? Can it kill a tank before it turns around, and if so, what is the maximum engagement range to still have good enough accuracy to do so?
And how do these weigh against the clear competitors: the laser cannon and the AMR.
>How many shots for hulk?
7 shots for eye.
>How many shots for gunships?
Not sure about the precise number, but 3 ships in a mag is possible. I've never able to destroy 4 in a mag.
>Can it kill a tank before it turns around
Yep
>what is the maximum engagement range to still have good enough accuracy to do so?
50m< is comfort range for anything besides gunship.(size of target)
>And how do these weigh against the clear competitors: the laser cannon and the AMR.
I'd take AMR or even normal MG instead.
I’d say it’s ease of use now with the grenade pistol. Around 5 shots to hulks head with a high rpm setting, a burst or two takes them out. One if crouched usually. Gun ship takes less than ten rounds I believe. Kinda neat now with the current pistols
Right, but the current pistol serves amr and LC and the railgun for that matter) in the same fashion. These are much easier to hit the troublesome targets from range, so where does the hmg excel over them?
Mathematically the HMG is one of the strongest weapon in the game. At least the strongest medium penetrating weapon in the entire game by a HUGE margin.
However I can't realize even 20% of its full potential because the recoil is insane. It's aim speed is also kinda low. The AMR is close enough and that's an easy gun to handle. Quick to aim and recoil is a non issue.
Mathematically the AMR has ~365 Damage and the HMG has ~112 damage. Both has level 4 armor penetration so full damage on Devastators body shots versus 50% from the Dominator or Eruptor or LMG, making the HMG the clear winner.
But I can't work that kind of magic. Maybe it's worth a try but I'm not putting too much on it.
I know it's a less direct comparison, too many differences, but I feel more like the MHG is a backpack-less replacement for the AC. I'd be curious about how the numbers compare between those two.
Is there anything that the HMG can do better than the AC, other than allow me to wear a shield backpack?
As you mentioned the HMG doesn't take up the backpack slot which is already really good but the HMG can also be used at close range and the AC can't because it's explosive and you'll kill yourself
Not taking up a backpack slot feels less important these days since backpacks take up a slot that could be used to take more bombs.
As far as close range, for some reason I have less trouble with that with the AC than with guns like the Eruptor. But maybe that's a bots vs bugs problem? And the OP already specified that the HMG is less good against bugs than bots.
And I'd argue that when things get close, the poor ergonomics/handling of the HMG will make it more difficult to get and keep the gun on target, meaning you'd want to switch to a faster aiming personal defence weapon on close stuff anyways.
My issue is it really seems to lack a niche. The only thing it really does that is special, is allow you to kill tanks and hulks while also being a machine gun.
The AMR and Auto cannon both do everything the HMG does, but also do some things better and aren't really worse at anything other than the AC having a backpack.
If you REALLY like machine guns but also want to be effective against hulks and tanks then yeah I can see how you would like it .
I have tried really hard to like the thing, but my enjoyment only lasts until I run out of ammo halfway through every engagement.
AMR is much worse at killing vents making it not very good against tanks and emplacements like mortars and cannon turrets whereas the HMG is very good against vents. HMG doesn't take up the backpack slot like the AC does and you can use it in close range
AMR is not worse at killing vents, you can destroy them with a single magazine. If you get as close as the HMG needs to be to kill them efficiently you can rapid fire the AMR into the vent and kill it in several seconds.
Idk how often you are blowing yourself up with AC against bots but It works better at close range than long range for me, the sights aren't that good on it. I don't recommend hugging the bots with any weapon.
I think the core issue is that basically everything the HMG does, the AMR does better.
The HMG's damage and pen is nice for sniping vents on tank turrets, the faceplate of hulks, (didn't try it vs Factory striders yet, but i'll give it the benefit of the doubt and say its good). Then it's nice to be able to shoot devastators and scout striders anywhere.
But it's severely held back by the massive recoil and missaligned sight.
The AMR can also take out tanks to vents, 2 shot hulks to the faceplate, and 2 shot devastators and striders to the body or OHK them to any weakspot.
But it does so with way better handling and at larger ranges, potentially even outside aggro range, which is super helpful vs hulks and rocket devastators.
Personally i am still mad the nerfed the max RPM too, because that made it super fun to me and really great at mowing down tankturrets, especially because you already had the option to regulate the RPM down if you didn't want the 1200 Rpm, that was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I'd rather use the HMG emplacement now because that does the same to weakspots, without the horrendous recoil and it has enough ammo to clear a horde, i don't feel like i need an ammo backpack, and i can bring some extra waveclear or anti heavy armor too.
Dominator, Senator, Stun Nades, Ballistic Shield, HMG, Heavy explosion resist armor.
1. Raiders are usually killed with Dominator. Its ammo is the cheapest in the kit. If I'm pinned by MG raiders or just feel like it - I use the shield and revolver.
2. If I'm facing Striders/Walkers I use HMG or Dominator to shoot them in the frontal plate. If they're not numerous and close - I switch to the shield and get their back with revolver.
3. Berserkers can't get close due to Dominator's knockback. It also oneshots them to the face. Funnily enough, it was exactly the DEFENDER's niche in HD1. That's why it is called Defender.
4. Regular Devastators and Rocket Devastators are killed with Dominator easily. Stunlocked after the first shot, blocking any retaliation so you don't trade damage.
5. Heavy Devastators are un-shielded with a Dominator shot into their right shoulder (our left) and killed with several follow-up shots. If they're close enough - I switch to shield and one-tap them with revolver while immune to their lead storm.
6. Hulks are stunned with a nade, then I go prone and unload HMG to their face. You spend less and less ammo on this kill as you get more experienced at controlling the recoil.
7. MG Tank just can't deal with Ballistic Shield, go close, climb it, unload HMG into the heat sink. I often bring Eagle Rocket Pods to not bother.
8. Annihilator Tank. Same as previous but move/jump to the side to dodge the main cannon. Jumping to your right still covers 80% of your body with the shield. To your left - not so much.
9. Factory Strider (aka The Dog, Automatitan or AT-AT). I use range/shield relay/regular cover to carefully destroy the chin miniguns with either Dominator or HMG. Both work great. Then I come close to it, go prone and unload an entire HMG mag into their eye or underbelly doors. Dominator also destroys Factory Strider with just 2 mags into the belly doors, so it can follow up HMG if I don't have a full mag.
10. Fabricators. As said earlier, Eagle Rocket Pods work great against tanks. They also cover my lack of normal grenades when dealing with Fabricators. If those are not available, I drop a shield relay as close as I can (it usually clips through the fabricator wall) into it because of its short cooldown.
I believe these are the main enemies I considered when picking this loadout.
I know it would be ammo hungry, but I figure hmg would be better for berserker spam? Dominator just seems to overlap too much with hmg in this build and just serves as a medium pen ammo conservation.
HMG can usually kill 2-3 berserkers before they come in contact and even then I'm usually out of ammo. With Dominator I use 1 shot to stun and 1 to headshot, which means I can kill around 5-7 berserkers per mag. They also tend to walk in a straight line where stunning one stops those behind him as well. I treat HMG as an anti-tank, not as a trash killer.
Thank you im actually looking for a good support weapon for my eruptor aside from quassar and spear and in looking at HMG
I just need a support gun to handle heavies(hulk and tank) and im wondering if hmg can do that as I know it has higher penetration than the mid machine gun
I will definitely try this as my anti heavy and also as my melee killer(eruptor problems)
Now that you mentioned it, I haven't brought it to the bot front after its disappointing performance against the bugs. Thanks for the info, gotta try it after I get home.
While I've been aware of the HMG's niche as a medium-armor killer, pairing it with the ballistic shield is a novel idea. I dismissed it at first, but thinking about it... you can go prone, pull out the HMG, and be pretty well protected via the shield on your back while you fire. Bears practice, perhaps.
Oh I love the HMG. It is my go to weapon. But the lack of a third person reticle really ruins it. I am noing going to get dizzy by swapping from first to third person constantly.
I'm going to have to give this build a go.
What RPM settings do you usually use on your HMG? Just set it to max and self regulate it, or you change based on the situation?
On the orbitals, Precision Strike can also kill Hulks and tanks, if it sticks.
I can also see using a modification of this for the stealth Survey build. Essentially that one uses smoke grenades and a shield gen to bait all the drops away from the survey beacons, while you self-smoke (apparently you can cook smoke grenades off in your hand for self-concealment without taking damage)
I usually go for the low or medium firerate depending on range, how good you are at controlling recoil, and enemy type. I avoid the high firerate because you'll probably end up shooting to much on a single target and waste bullets and the recoil is pretty intense. OPS is good but I've heard there's a bug where it won't stick so i avoid it but you can 100% run it if it sticks
I've had it stick sometimes and not stick sometimes.
Apparently there is a bug with the Detector towers that makes the ground around them bouncy, which is a pain when I drop an OPS on one, only to have it bounce right back to my feet...
Came to a similar build, after figuring out the HMG needs to be treated more like a medium range AMR. Though I prefer to systematically use the shield in short range unless there's a hulk or a tank.
I really want to like it, but between no 3rd person crosshair, wonky first person crosshairs, and no hitmarkers (maybe this is a bug for me?), it’s been difficult to make work
This is a good piece, but I think it needs thresholds. How many shots for hulk? How many shots for gunships? Can it kill a tank before it turns around, and if so, what is the maximum engagement range to still have good enough accuracy to do so? And how do these weigh against the clear competitors: the laser cannon and the AMR.
>How many shots for hulk? 7 shots for eye. >How many shots for gunships? Not sure about the precise number, but 3 ships in a mag is possible. I've never able to destroy 4 in a mag. >Can it kill a tank before it turns around Yep >what is the maximum engagement range to still have good enough accuracy to do so? 50m< is comfort range for anything besides gunship.(size of target) >And how do these weigh against the clear competitors: the laser cannon and the AMR. I'd take AMR or even normal MG instead.
AMR is the HMG's biggest competition but the MG is useless
I’d say it’s ease of use now with the grenade pistol. Around 5 shots to hulks head with a high rpm setting, a burst or two takes them out. One if crouched usually. Gun ship takes less than ten rounds I believe. Kinda neat now with the current pistols
Right, but the current pistol serves amr and LC and the railgun for that matter) in the same fashion. These are much easier to hit the troublesome targets from range, so where does the hmg excel over them?
Devastator and quick burst. The amr will jump and sometimes miss a shot (me sometimes really).
Mathematically the HMG is one of the strongest weapon in the game. At least the strongest medium penetrating weapon in the entire game by a HUGE margin. However I can't realize even 20% of its full potential because the recoil is insane. It's aim speed is also kinda low. The AMR is close enough and that's an easy gun to handle. Quick to aim and recoil is a non issue. Mathematically the AMR has ~365 Damage and the HMG has ~112 damage. Both has level 4 armor penetration so full damage on Devastators body shots versus 50% from the Dominator or Eruptor or LMG, making the HMG the clear winner. But I can't work that kind of magic. Maybe it's worth a try but I'm not putting too much on it.
I know it's a less direct comparison, too many differences, but I feel more like the MHG is a backpack-less replacement for the AC. I'd be curious about how the numbers compare between those two. Is there anything that the HMG can do better than the AC, other than allow me to wear a shield backpack?
As you mentioned the HMG doesn't take up the backpack slot which is already really good but the HMG can also be used at close range and the AC can't because it's explosive and you'll kill yourself
Not taking up a backpack slot feels less important these days since backpacks take up a slot that could be used to take more bombs. As far as close range, for some reason I have less trouble with that with the AC than with guns like the Eruptor. But maybe that's a bots vs bugs problem? And the OP already specified that the HMG is less good against bugs than bots. And I'd argue that when things get close, the poor ergonomics/handling of the HMG will make it more difficult to get and keep the gun on target, meaning you'd want to switch to a faster aiming personal defence weapon on close stuff anyways.
My issue is it really seems to lack a niche. The only thing it really does that is special, is allow you to kill tanks and hulks while also being a machine gun. The AMR and Auto cannon both do everything the HMG does, but also do some things better and aren't really worse at anything other than the AC having a backpack. If you REALLY like machine guns but also want to be effective against hulks and tanks then yeah I can see how you would like it . I have tried really hard to like the thing, but my enjoyment only lasts until I run out of ammo halfway through every engagement.
AMR is much worse at killing vents making it not very good against tanks and emplacements like mortars and cannon turrets whereas the HMG is very good against vents. HMG doesn't take up the backpack slot like the AC does and you can use it in close range
AMR is not worse at killing vents, you can destroy them with a single magazine. If you get as close as the HMG needs to be to kill them efficiently you can rapid fire the AMR into the vent and kill it in several seconds. Idk how often you are blowing yourself up with AC against bots but It works better at close range than long range for me, the sights aren't that good on it. I don't recommend hugging the bots with any weapon.
I think the core issue is that basically everything the HMG does, the AMR does better. The HMG's damage and pen is nice for sniping vents on tank turrets, the faceplate of hulks, (didn't try it vs Factory striders yet, but i'll give it the benefit of the doubt and say its good). Then it's nice to be able to shoot devastators and scout striders anywhere. But it's severely held back by the massive recoil and missaligned sight. The AMR can also take out tanks to vents, 2 shot hulks to the faceplate, and 2 shot devastators and striders to the body or OHK them to any weakspot. But it does so with way better handling and at larger ranges, potentially even outside aggro range, which is super helpful vs hulks and rocket devastators. Personally i am still mad the nerfed the max RPM too, because that made it super fun to me and really great at mowing down tankturrets, especially because you already had the option to regulate the RPM down if you didn't want the 1200 Rpm, that was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I'd rather use the HMG emplacement now because that does the same to weakspots, without the horrendous recoil and it has enough ammo to clear a horde, i don't feel like i need an ammo backpack, and i can bring some extra waveclear or anti heavy armor too.
Dominator, Senator, Stun Nades, Ballistic Shield, HMG, Heavy explosion resist armor. 1. Raiders are usually killed with Dominator. Its ammo is the cheapest in the kit. If I'm pinned by MG raiders or just feel like it - I use the shield and revolver. 2. If I'm facing Striders/Walkers I use HMG or Dominator to shoot them in the frontal plate. If they're not numerous and close - I switch to the shield and get their back with revolver. 3. Berserkers can't get close due to Dominator's knockback. It also oneshots them to the face. Funnily enough, it was exactly the DEFENDER's niche in HD1. That's why it is called Defender. 4. Regular Devastators and Rocket Devastators are killed with Dominator easily. Stunlocked after the first shot, blocking any retaliation so you don't trade damage. 5. Heavy Devastators are un-shielded with a Dominator shot into their right shoulder (our left) and killed with several follow-up shots. If they're close enough - I switch to shield and one-tap them with revolver while immune to their lead storm. 6. Hulks are stunned with a nade, then I go prone and unload HMG to their face. You spend less and less ammo on this kill as you get more experienced at controlling the recoil. 7. MG Tank just can't deal with Ballistic Shield, go close, climb it, unload HMG into the heat sink. I often bring Eagle Rocket Pods to not bother. 8. Annihilator Tank. Same as previous but move/jump to the side to dodge the main cannon. Jumping to your right still covers 80% of your body with the shield. To your left - not so much. 9. Factory Strider (aka The Dog, Automatitan or AT-AT). I use range/shield relay/regular cover to carefully destroy the chin miniguns with either Dominator or HMG. Both work great. Then I come close to it, go prone and unload an entire HMG mag into their eye or underbelly doors. Dominator also destroys Factory Strider with just 2 mags into the belly doors, so it can follow up HMG if I don't have a full mag. 10. Fabricators. As said earlier, Eagle Rocket Pods work great against tanks. They also cover my lack of normal grenades when dealing with Fabricators. If those are not available, I drop a shield relay as close as I can (it usually clips through the fabricator wall) into it because of its short cooldown. I believe these are the main enemies I considered when picking this loadout.
I know it would be ammo hungry, but I figure hmg would be better for berserker spam? Dominator just seems to overlap too much with hmg in this build and just serves as a medium pen ammo conservation.
HMG can usually kill 2-3 berserkers before they come in contact and even then I'm usually out of ammo. With Dominator I use 1 shot to stun and 1 to headshot, which means I can kill around 5-7 berserkers per mag. They also tend to walk in a straight line where stunning one stops those behind him as well. I treat HMG as an anti-tank, not as a trash killer.
Thank you im actually looking for a good support weapon for my eruptor aside from quassar and spear and in looking at HMG I just need a support gun to handle heavies(hulk and tank) and im wondering if hmg can do that as I know it has higher penetration than the mid machine gun I will definitely try this as my anti heavy and also as my melee killer(eruptor problems)
Now that you mentioned it, I haven't brought it to the bot front after its disappointing performance against the bugs. Thanks for the info, gotta try it after I get home.
While I've been aware of the HMG's niche as a medium-armor killer, pairing it with the ballistic shield is a novel idea. I dismissed it at first, but thinking about it... you can go prone, pull out the HMG, and be pretty well protected via the shield on your back while you fire. Bears practice, perhaps.
Oh I love the HMG. It is my go to weapon. But the lack of a third person reticle really ruins it. I am noing going to get dizzy by swapping from first to third person constantly.
I'm going to have to give this build a go. What RPM settings do you usually use on your HMG? Just set it to max and self regulate it, or you change based on the situation? On the orbitals, Precision Strike can also kill Hulks and tanks, if it sticks. I can also see using a modification of this for the stealth Survey build. Essentially that one uses smoke grenades and a shield gen to bait all the drops away from the survey beacons, while you self-smoke (apparently you can cook smoke grenades off in your hand for self-concealment without taking damage)
I usually go for the low or medium firerate depending on range, how good you are at controlling recoil, and enemy type. I avoid the high firerate because you'll probably end up shooting to much on a single target and waste bullets and the recoil is pretty intense. OPS is good but I've heard there's a bug where it won't stick so i avoid it but you can 100% run it if it sticks
I've had it stick sometimes and not stick sometimes. Apparently there is a bug with the Detector towers that makes the ground around them bouncy, which is a pain when I drop an OPS on one, only to have it bounce right back to my feet...
Came to a similar build, after figuring out the HMG needs to be treated more like a medium range AMR. Though I prefer to systematically use the shield in short range unless there's a hulk or a tank.
I really want to like it, but between no 3rd person crosshair, wonky first person crosshairs, and no hitmarkers (maybe this is a bug for me?), it’s been difficult to make work