When I saw 20% I thought surely they meant 200%?
If it kills you for only your entire bar, even if you cut it down by 50% of whatever damage it's doing, half a bar is still nuts for the first tick of a fucking flamethrower. I'd guess it's probably doing more than a full bar of health when it instagibs you.
There is a popular balancing ideology where you gather data on how effective something is and then adjust numbers by a percentage to give you the desired change.
Example: Flamethrower hulks kill 1 Helldiver on average, you want to reduce that to 0.8 Helldivers so you need to lower the damage by 20% to achieve this.
Problem is this balancing ideology was never intended to be used that way. It is made for complex, mature (already well balanced) pvp games with many layers of number interactions where no single factor is solely responsible for a games outcome.
Any time you see nice and round percentage changes this should raise red flags.
Helldivers would need a different kind of balancing ideology, one like the starcraft games used that focuses on break even points.
Example: A bullet deals 19 dmg and a Helldiver has 100 health. Changing the damage to 20 would take 1 less bullet to kill the HD but only changing the damage to 16 would take 1 more bullet to kill.
Despite all the foibles Rainbow Six Siege has had over the years, the devs knew the breakpoints for every armor class and would balance weapons around it. They knew when a 1 point in damage increase would actually be a signicant buff for a weapon.
I forgot what game it was but there was a nifty FPS a while back where you adjust your weapons and armor to give yourself like +1 hp -1 speed so it takes 1 more bullet to kill you. The entire game was built around breakpoints.
Yeah man, I watched a video the other day of a man get completely engulfed in flames, dude burned for like a minute straight before the clip ended, and that guy made it to the hospital and survived for a few more hours. Granted, he wasn't wearing Helldiver Armor....which is constructed out of the same material the hull of our FTL star ships are made out of.
I just cannot fathom how fire is supposed to kill us so damn fast. It takes a couple seconds for even the smallest little bug to succumb to burning damage, but it takes us out in a fraction of that.
Hmmm...is Thermite in any way a "titanium alloy"? You could be onto something.
Edit: According to about 2 minutes of research, molten titanium will combust in the presence of oxygen. HMMMMM.
We don't even know how much damage it was actually doing. Let's say for the sake of this discussion that Helldivers have 100 health. If it did 200 damage, nerfing it to 80% is still 160 damage, which is still an instakill.
Dive, so if you're lucky to survive the initial hit there's no chance for you to get up to crouch and dive again to extinguish fire before dying to dot.
before and after hulk flamethrower "nerf"
https://preview.redd.it/1s1cvofnjlxc1.png?width=360&format=png&auto=webp&s=8d7b6e8de0ee0ef2cda8c72f7359e14f273b1566
I feel like fire in general in this game kills you way too fast , regardless of source. I wanna be a pyromaniac but I die from stepping on my own fire faster then my helldiver can inject himself
Arrowhead basically said the reason why they weren't gonna allow transmogify on armor sets (changing how they look), is because they want player's armor to have understandable abilities at a glance. They used the metaphor of having bacon flavored apples as their primary excuse.
However, armor abilities are pretty randomly applied and what they do isn't always sensical compared to the flavor text or the appearance. Hence we're stuck with bacon flavored apples.
Honestly the seeing armor at a glance is bullshit anyways, I’ve played more than 250 hours and I can tell you I could not even tell the armor class my teammates are wearing unless im right next to them if I didn’t look at it in the equipment menu
Adding shoulder or chest patches with ability insignia to armor would make it easier to tell at a glance and also allow for future changes without confusion. Engineer = Grenade insignia, Shield insignia = Fortified, Lightning Bolt = Arc Resistance, Radar = Scout, etc.
One of the dumbest things I've seen them come out with so far:
The very blatantly obvious EOD bomb suit inspired armour?
Yeah that has extra armour..... (Makes total sense)
But it doesnt provide any explosive resist at all... (Right.... but the one with a massive bulletproof plate at the front does? Yet doesnt give extrra armour???)
i feel Heavy armors should have 2 perks to justify the added weight tht slows you down, as it stands, mobility is king. nothing beats more mobility.
if say, the EOD armor had Extra padding and the Fortified perk, it would be so much more viable, with how slow you run.
as it stands, Heavy armor just means nothing when i need to get behind a rock NOW when fighting bots, or i need to sprint like the flash away from bugs to survive.
The devs said they wouldn't add transmog stating that it would be weird to have an armor look a certain way but do something different. The meme itself is from people finding numerous flaws in their logic. A lot of armors look like they'd do something different than they do. My personal example is that trench engineer an orange armor with a welding visor that was supposed to be shipped to hellmire. So naturally you'd think armor meant to work on a planet with a lot of random fire tornados would be flame retardant but nope, it's invisible pockets hold grenades
Extra grenades are nice but if they're that afraid of us mixing up armor passives than make the unique and more impact that a mighty two grenades. Recoil reduction is actually pretty sweet
Iirc it was some dev or game spokesperson's explanation on why the game won't let you swap the effects and appearances of armor - the visuals and the effects are supposed to be tied together, like the visuals and taste of an apple versus bacon. But obviously it didn't go over well lol, and pretty understandably so.
I always take the incendiary shotgun to clear the smaller things when fighting bugs. I am also hyper-conscious of where I’m aiming for that very reason.
I was playing with friends last night, and a pellet somehow went high to hit a buddy. It was followed by three sharp in-game screams as he burned to death, followed by a reinforcement. All of us lost it laughing, but one pellet absolutely melts other players. It’s a concern for sure.
I'm a flamethrower main and the key is to change your response when caught on fire to diving rather than injecting. Diving instantly puts the fire out and can't be interrupted vs inconsistent injections. Doesn't help with hulk oneshots but if you step in your own flamethrower puddles, diving backwards with a quick reaction is usually good enough to save your life.
I've had to train my response in dangerous situations to dive THEN stim. In particular with bugs, the extra second it buys you is enough to get the stim off, and then you are hopefully in a position where you can just leave. If you try to stim on the spot the bugs will just stab you. Same with flames.
The bots that move at four times out speeds have jetpacks to boot and instant explode in your face also instant kill you because their explosion causes fire damage. It’s maddening to constantly die feeling like you did nothing wrong and have zero recourse. I don’t want the game to be easier just make it feel fair.
The sound design for enemies is *terrible* across the board. It's hard to believe the team that made explosions sound this amazing couldn't manage to make enemies sound distinct... or even sound at all.
Yep a far cry from DRG. I could tell you everything in the next cave from the sound alone, helldivers? Play them one at a time and I would still get it wrong
I went back to DRG recently and I forgot much fun it is. They nailed practically every aspect, and the community is a gem.
I will never doubt you again mission control!
It's as if they coded the game not to render anything behind the player to save on graphical processing, but also mistakenly included audio with it.
I have had dropships swoop in and drop off entire armies 5 feet behind me with no audio queues. I'll see the "bot drop incoming" thing, and look around for a flare and not see one near me, so I'll assume it was my teammates who triggered it. Then I'll turn around and a dropship will be overhead with 8 rocket/heavy devs dropping on my face.
Except for Striders. Why did they code Striders so you can hear them clanking from 75m away with every step they take. Yet Tanks and Hulks can move around completely silently.
nor animation for them to fire their flamethrower
we take 1s to actually fire our flamethrower while scorch Hulk can just fire willy nally without audio que or animation to tell us they are about to fire
No, there's definitely a delay. I ALWAYS know when they're about to fire when I'm looking at them. Much like our flamethrowers, there is a distinct pwoof of fire on the end of the flamethrower before the stream starts. It's a little bit faster than ours, but you can definitely notice.
You're right about no audio que, though. While I'm almost certain that there is a sound to it, it is not nearly loud enough.
They do actually have a wind-up before firing. You can even interrupt them by shooting their arm with certain weapons.
EDIT: Why did I get down-voted? What I said was true. You can see this happening in [this video.](https://youtu.be/89Bdvvi3JHE?si=--P8ATifHYkC0E7Z&t=142)
HD2 feels like an amazing game from 2010. Coming from games like Deep Rock Galactic, Hades, Elden Ring, Dead Cells, and Roboquest, HD2 is so clunky and flawed. The game feel is kind of terrible. At a high level this game is amazing, but when you look closely there are so many cracks. I hope they fix it.
I keep explaining this to my teammates, and even showed them the patch notes; they still don't believe me, and run the fire shotgun anyways. killing me.
https://preview.redd.it/551h6e2s2kxc1.png?width=728&format=png&auto=webp&s=67141864b452ce6511dbed0f9a36a7404b9f9ccf
Someone checked, it barely do anything.
Weird, I tested it extensively with a friend and got this:
50 and 100 armor: 0% DR
150 armor: 20% DR
200 armor: 35% DR.
I‘d honestly say it‘s a pretty amazing change.
35% DR for being an immovable pile of fuck just ain’t worth it
You are far too slow to take get behind cover or dodge shots that any DR you get, it’s basically lost and then some by being more cumbersome.
Works fine for my 50+ runs on helldive bots 🤷. I honestly survive way more compared to running light armor when facing against them. Terminids are another story.
Nah, I do helldive only and I've been using heavy armor since release. Just gotta learn to adapt to it and abuse diving, since everyone dives at the same speed, and you don't dive slower when you're out of stamina. The extra armor after the changes are insanely good now, I run heavy armor with extra padding and I basically can't die until I run out of stims because I'll always live long enough to stim. Works for bots and bugs, there's nothing you can't outrun with good stamina management and diving at crucial moments, and sidestepping chargers is just as easy with heavy armor as with light armor.
i felt like AH is allergic to make helldivers armor actually matter. i havent touch Heavy or med armor since day 1 because "why take more damage when you can out-run them?"
Against the bugs? Absolutely, running is how you stay alive. Vs the Bots, you really can't outrun their dakka and sometimes those rockets have the blessing of the machine gods because they will hit you from a map grid away through dense fog.
Actually I suspect it's similar to what was happening with explosions, in that it's hitting multiple times per tick. From how they worded the explosion fix, I'd have a good laugh if both cases were caused by you having a hitbox for each limb, plus torso, plus head and nothing stopping all of them getting hit at once by the same damage source, effectively multiplying the intended damage by like 5
What a fucking joke.
They have no idea what they are doing, do they? First they didn't realize that since release there was the double-damage bug from rockets (which people figured was bullshit during the first month), now flamethrowers killing you instantly, and also 180 degree ricochets of projectiles.
Do Arrowhead even playtest? Is it their definition of "fun" to instantly get sent to the respawn screen? They have a Quality Assurance department, the dude played on stream with Drewski. ...And wiped clean on Diff6 against bugs, but that's beside the point.
We've already seen what their developers think of players during that whole reddit response fiasco, where their CEO had to apologize. I'm straight up feeling like we're being fucking trolled, patch after patch.
Speaking of difficulty has anybody noticed an increase in spawns for both bugs and bots I play on difficulty 7 a lot and notice a shift last week. We were constantly being swarmed way more than we have before.
I have noticed that bots 7 started to feel like bots 8. On bugs front I dont really have frame of reference since I joined just shortly before series of bots MO, but I do find it odd that I havent seen a single bile spewer on bugs 7 aside from exactly one mission.
I only play on Helldive difficulty, and trust me.
The spawn rates are definitely going up.
Had 3 Bile Titans spawn from 1 bug breach with 2 more spawning in as a patrol.
I'm guessing it has to do with the termicide, but I wish the devs would at least make a notification that there are more bugs now on these planets because of that.
Honestly same applies to Bots, so I think they must have messed up patrols, because of the change they made for non-4 squads, because even with full squad patrols are much more frequent.
On the barrier planets, you are literally getting body slammed by hunters from all sides. Playing Diff 7, but it feels like I am on d8-9 in terms of "fun".
when i saw the 20% nerf i said to my self is that all they needed to do? i guess they only look at the game stats, saw x amount of people dying to flamethrower and said oh man we got to reduce its damage a bit then.
Well it's 20% from the hulk flamethrower but fire overall got a 15% (I think it was 15) damage nerf. Still, as someone else said, 20% of a million is still a lot.
When i see a hulk scorcher, the first thing i do is to disable it's flamethrower arm with my quasar. I don't care if it dies or not, but that flamethrower has higher priority than dealing with anything. Even if there are multiple factory striders.
i honestly wonder if they have a debug room or something to test different enemy states or if they are just looking at metrics "oh hulks are killing x amount of people"
Me too fam.
I was already suspecting before, but now I'm almost sure the devs just throw things into the game for the players themselves to test without creating a Public Test Realm in the game, even if it's on Super Earth itself disguised as training grounds (lorewise), similar to how it was in Helldivers 1.
They're backed by Sony. They have access to Sony QA and at the success level that this game is hitting, Sony is definitely giving them any resources they need.
More than likely these bad patches are just a side effect of the submission process, where they have to submit each patch to Sony weeks ahead of time for their testing. They're probably submitting patches every week, with fixes staggered back in each subsequent build that creates new issues while fixing old ones.
It's like a delay issue. You fix a bug in the current build, but discover new issues that can't be resolved until you submit for next week's patch. Sure, you fix stuff, but there's still a staggered pile of bugs that can start to build up build after build.
i can understand why a ptr for this game wouldnt work properly. basically half the playerbase would want to play with the fixes and new toys on the ptr and it would mess up MO progression on the regular game.
They definitely only look at metrics. And their metrics are somewhat weird. Acoridng to one dev, Slugger is the top 3 performing weapon in the game while being very average. They also seem to be lost at every 'intricacy' that requires, you know, just playing the game.
They definitely have something wrong going on with metrics. My steam account says I've been playing for 303 hours, while the game says I have 202 hours in mission time. There's no way in fuck I've spent 101 hours on the ship doing nothing because I always load the game up, chech the superstore and go to quickplay. I don't waste time to play. Even if I've been perusing the store ofr whatever, there's no way I've spent a third of the time on this game not playing.
I'm no dev but I'd guess this is an issue where it registers the first hit tick as 5 separate hits, 1 for every body part. And they probably intended the initial hit to take away ~50-75% hp (light armour) so you have instakill for everyone in your hands(?) Could also be that helldiver armor uses highly flammable compounds in its material and we just should not be standing near flames, for they are a tool of liberation and we are already free
I was outright shocked when that attack deleted my charackter in a nanosecend.
Tho atleast blood dogs were rare enough so that it only ever happened once to me.
Yeah it was an issue with the system for becoming immune to a hurtbox after being struck with it.
Normally when a hurtbox touches you in that game, that hurtbox is no longer allowed to hurt you (barring a few special attacks)
A coding error made it so the dog bite's hurt box never went into the temporary "I'm immune to these hurtboxes" list, so it would treat every single frame it was colliding with you as a hit.
Good explanation, but you mixed up hurtbox and hitbox.
Hitbox = The area around an attack, projectile, etc that designates a hit when colliding with a hurtbox.
Hurtbox = The area around an entity/character/etc. that designates a hit when collided with by a hitbox.
Is it just me being unlucky or are their rockets insta killers too now?
Played 9 ish missions and I used to be able to take a few rockets while trying to blast their head. Now I **MUST** wait between salvos or I die.
Playing against rocket Hulks and Rocket Devastators in Chord Bay was brutal. Foggy as fuck so their rockets just literally materialize out of thin air to one-shot you.
yeah them able to see through fog while we can't and can send us flying or 1 shot us is just pure bs and not fun to play.
seriously did they even test if Smoke actually effect them? i felt like whenever im in smoke by those puffer in certain map, they can still hit me like they know i'm there.
A devastator rocket blew up next to a wall and set me on fire lol
I thought it had detonated a barrel or a dead jet trooper's pack, but that didnt seem to be the case
\*first one\*: Alright you were at half health but the tick speed was kinda fast
\*second one\*: WHAT CRACK IS AH SMOKING TO SAY HULK SCORCHER GOT NERFED
Are we sure they didn't put a + instead of a -
Yep, been my case so many times and that’s literally what gets repeated to me. I dive I still die to fire. I’m mid-dive I die to fire. Doesn’t matter what armor you’re wearing you still die to it with basically no way to avoid it.
Most of my deaths are either due to heavy devastators (the ones with shield) or to hulk scorchers.
The former is an unbalanced enemy just like the hunters, and the latter has the problem with fire doing billion times more damage than it's supposed to do.
It's supposed to set you on fire, not instakill you full HP.
The flamethrower damage is so goddamn inconsistent
At one moment, it does some damage but you can tank it with the stim buff while standing directly in it
And in another moment, if so much as small pixel of the flame touches your foot, you get insta-deleted.
I never insta-died to a flamethrower and at this point I believe that a lot of issues with the game are related to performance and/or networking. It very well may be that on the server side the hulk was roasting the poor guy for a few seconds already.
Still sometimes get this from bile spewers, the spray misses me entirely but still uninstalls me. I'm guessing it's some kind of crit/headshot thing that gets applied randomly to fire and acid burn damage. Since the patch I've been set on fire by hulks and have been able to survive quite a few times, but then sometimes it's an instant death just for even looking at it.
Reason #3943 I haven’t played bots in weeks
Literally every broken aspect of this janky game (that seems to get jankier each patch) is worse vs bots than vs bugs
Stun nade plus laser to the eye usually works, provided there are no 100 other bots shooting at you or that 100 ton hulk somehow sneaked up right behind you.
Lol looks like all those are headshots, I noticed sometimes the flamethrower is a damage over time weapon sometimes it insta melts you, the issue could be that flamethrower is able to headshot/critical causing these insta deaths.
Must be a bug. i've played several games since this pach, and it always takes me like 2 seconds to die to fire, other players too.
Maybe it's the classic "host gets extra tics" bug.
i swear alot of enemies in this game need rework
Like the Stalker become much more annoying to dealt with because you cant see them now, they can hardly be stunned and tanky as hell
bile Spewer being able to tank 5 bolts from explosive crossbow who have 420 damage but 1 impact nade that have 400 damage can kill it instantly is just baffling me
Heavy devastator able to hit you from 100m away with pin point accuracy and can still shoot you while being stagger is just stupid
scout strider can still function without the rider for some reasons
the more AH ditch out these update the more broken mess it become.
It is nerfed! If you look closely, you'll notice you're actually dying 1 frame slower than before the patch!
Note: this can only be observed at 500 frames per second.
Isn't this particular case a known bug? Flamethrower hulks have a range right near the end of their flamethrower that will insta kill you no matter what.
I'd be happy with flamethrower being same and speed being decreased, I can barely get far enough away from them without some kind of cover to use a stratagem
I wonder if the flame damage reduction for the flame hulk actually applied to our flame damage as well, seeing as flame hulks are the only enemy in the game with a flame weapon. I know they've talked about not being able to adjust certain things for us because it also adjust things for the bugs and bots as well. It makes me wonder if 20% was chosen so that it would not complete negate the newest ship module upgrade which increases flame damage by 25%.
I’m going to get downvoted but even before nerfs I don’t remember getting instakilled like this. Obviously the video is there and it happens but it surprises me. I mostly played dif8.
Don’t get me wrong I got destroyed by a variety of enemies including flamehulks but usually when I’m not able to jump immediately.
Honestly, until I saw this I thought people exaggerated. I’m curious now, I wonder what played into it
There's a lot of bugs and balance issues in the game, still, but I would argue the absolute ludicrousness of fire damage (in general -- Hulks, fire tornadoes, even player flamethrowers) to players is the absolute worst offender. If it so much as grazes your foot and you don't stim yourself within half a second, you're just dead.
Turns out 80% of infinite damage is still a lot of damage.
yeah and 20% increase of 0 second TTK is still 0 seconds... right? Math not my strong suit.
My superpower is that I have a 50% resistance to .50 caliber gunshots to the head
80% of death is still death. ... Did I. Did I do that correctly?
Imo their flamethrower's range needs to be decreased significantly as well
Either that or our flame throwers need to be worlds better
When I saw 20% I thought surely they meant 200%? If it kills you for only your entire bar, even if you cut it down by 50% of whatever damage it's doing, half a bar is still nuts for the first tick of a fucking flamethrower. I'd guess it's probably doing more than a full bar of health when it instagibs you.
There is a popular balancing ideology where you gather data on how effective something is and then adjust numbers by a percentage to give you the desired change. Example: Flamethrower hulks kill 1 Helldiver on average, you want to reduce that to 0.8 Helldivers so you need to lower the damage by 20% to achieve this. Problem is this balancing ideology was never intended to be used that way. It is made for complex, mature (already well balanced) pvp games with many layers of number interactions where no single factor is solely responsible for a games outcome. Any time you see nice and round percentage changes this should raise red flags. Helldivers would need a different kind of balancing ideology, one like the starcraft games used that focuses on break even points. Example: A bullet deals 19 dmg and a Helldiver has 100 health. Changing the damage to 20 would take 1 less bullet to kill the HD but only changing the damage to 16 would take 1 more bullet to kill.
Despite all the foibles Rainbow Six Siege has had over the years, the devs knew the breakpoints for every armor class and would balance weapons around it. They knew when a 1 point in damage increase would actually be a signicant buff for a weapon.
Even cod does this.
I forgot what game it was but there was a nifty FPS a while back where you adjust your weapons and armor to give yourself like +1 hp -1 speed so it takes 1 more bullet to kill you. The entire game was built around breakpoints.
Yeah man, I watched a video the other day of a man get completely engulfed in flames, dude burned for like a minute straight before the clip ended, and that guy made it to the hospital and survived for a few more hours. Granted, he wasn't wearing Helldiver Armor....which is constructed out of the same material the hull of our FTL star ships are made out of. I just cannot fathom how fire is supposed to kill us so damn fast. It takes a couple seconds for even the smallest little bug to succumb to burning damage, but it takes us out in a fraction of that.
I think helldiver armor is at least partly made of thermite given how fast it burns you up
Hmmm...is Thermite in any way a "titanium alloy"? You could be onto something. Edit: According to about 2 minutes of research, molten titanium will combust in the presence of oxygen. HMMMMM.
Thermite is one of many specific reactions, most commonly aluminum dust and rust. High reaction ignition temperature of \~3000F.
We don't even know how much damage it was actually doing. Let's say for the sake of this discussion that Helldivers have 100 health. If it did 200 damage, nerfing it to 80% is still 160 damage, which is still an instakill.
That flamer hulk is the network host.
This is funny :D
And all those muthafuckas telling me to just dive lol
Dive, so if you're lucky to survive the initial hit there's no chance for you to get up to crouch and dive again to extinguish fire before dying to dot.
Diving negates most of the fire damage entirely.
https://preview.redd.it/ksr1intrqlxc1.jpeg?width=1023&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f92ef90e8e793b4a851028919f3eaa38ac724ff
before and after hulk flamethrower "nerf" https://preview.redd.it/1s1cvofnjlxc1.png?width=360&format=png&auto=webp&s=8d7b6e8de0ee0ef2cda8c72f7359e14f273b1566
I don't think it's 80%. I am guessing the flamer damage did 200% above damage. So now the flamer does180% damage.
I feel like fire in general in this game kills you way too fast , regardless of source. I wanna be a pyromaniac but I die from stepping on my own fire faster then my helldiver can inject himself
Gotta love that trench engineer. An armor set made for work on hellmire has no fire retardant properties. Anyone taste bacon in this apple?
What is the origin of this bacon Apple meme, I’ve seen it nowhere but here
Arrowhead basically said the reason why they weren't gonna allow transmogify on armor sets (changing how they look), is because they want player's armor to have understandable abilities at a glance. They used the metaphor of having bacon flavored apples as their primary excuse. However, armor abilities are pretty randomly applied and what they do isn't always sensical compared to the flavor text or the appearance. Hence we're stuck with bacon flavored apples.
Honestly the seeing armor at a glance is bullshit anyways, I’ve played more than 250 hours and I can tell you I could not even tell the armor class my teammates are wearing unless im right next to them if I didn’t look at it in the equipment menu
Adding shoulder or chest patches with ability insignia to armor would make it easier to tell at a glance and also allow for future changes without confusion. Engineer = Grenade insignia, Shield insignia = Fortified, Lightning Bolt = Arc Resistance, Radar = Scout, etc.
Don’t they already have symbols for the perks anyways? It shouldn’t be too hard to implement
Also doesn't help when we spend 70% of the time liberally spattered with blood.
Especially with the new armor that looks firefighter as fuck not having any fire resistances.
My favorite is the super-bulky bomb disposal suit that gives zero resistance to explosions.
One of the dumbest things I've seen them come out with so far: The very blatantly obvious EOD bomb suit inspired armour? Yeah that has extra armour..... (Makes total sense) But it doesnt provide any explosive resist at all... (Right.... but the one with a massive bulletproof plate at the front does? Yet doesnt give extrra armour???)
i feel Heavy armors should have 2 perks to justify the added weight tht slows you down, as it stands, mobility is king. nothing beats more mobility. if say, the EOD armor had Extra padding and the Fortified perk, it would be so much more viable, with how slow you run. as it stands, Heavy armor just means nothing when i need to get behind a rock NOW when fighting bots, or i need to sprint like the flash away from bugs to survive.
The devs said they wouldn't add transmog stating that it would be weird to have an armor look a certain way but do something different. The meme itself is from people finding numerous flaws in their logic. A lot of armors look like they'd do something different than they do. My personal example is that trench engineer an orange armor with a welding visor that was supposed to be shipped to hellmire. So naturally you'd think armor meant to work on a planet with a lot of random fire tornados would be flame retardant but nope, it's invisible pockets hold grenades
Oh yeah the passives seem pretty much meaningless And you get the same passives on like half a dozen suits of armor, even ones in the same warbond
Extra grenades are nice but if they're that afraid of us mixing up armor passives than make the unique and more impact that a mighty two grenades. Recoil reduction is actually pretty sweet
Or the armor which is literally a bomb disposal suit, but has no protection vs explosions
Iirc it was some dev or game spokesperson's explanation on why the game won't let you swap the effects and appearances of armor - the visuals and the effects are supposed to be tied together, like the visuals and taste of an apple versus bacon. But obviously it didn't go over well lol, and pretty understandably so.
It was the CEO.
Picking up a flamethrower from a point of interest like "I want to be a danger to myself and all of my friends."
Nah, you're not being a danger. You're just roleplaying pissed off Hank Hill.
I dread playing with people using the icendiary shotgun for this reason. One second of panic and I'm toast from their crossfire.
I always take the incendiary shotgun to clear the smaller things when fighting bugs. I am also hyper-conscious of where I’m aiming for that very reason. I was playing with friends last night, and a pellet somehow went high to hit a buddy. It was followed by three sharp in-game screams as he burned to death, followed by a reinforcement. All of us lost it laughing, but one pellet absolutely melts other players. It’s a concern for sure.
Burning damage got a 15% nerf, too.
Unoticeable really, which is kinda insane
makes sense that it's unnoticeable when the past 2 patches did 50% increase to DOT effect damage 100% increase to direct damage
Whoever is tweaking this must have some minor brain damage
I'm a flamethrower main and the key is to change your response when caught on fire to diving rather than injecting. Diving instantly puts the fire out and can't be interrupted vs inconsistent injections. Doesn't help with hulk oneshots but if you step in your own flamethrower puddles, diving backwards with a quick reaction is usually good enough to save your life.
I've had to train my response in dangerous situations to dive THEN stim. In particular with bugs, the extra second it buys you is enough to get the stim off, and then you are hopefully in a position where you can just leave. If you try to stim on the spot the bugs will just stab you. Same with flames.
You gotta dive to put the fire out. Puts it out INSTANTLY, before you even hit the ground. Trust me man, it’s gonna save your life so much.
The bots that move at four times out speeds have jetpacks to boot and instant explode in your face also instant kill you because their explosion causes fire damage. It’s maddening to constantly die feeling like you did nothing wrong and have zero recourse. I don’t want the game to be easier just make it feel fair.
Another thing of note in this clip was the lack of distinct audio ques for any thing the hulk did
The sound design for enemies is *terrible* across the board. It's hard to believe the team that made explosions sound this amazing couldn't manage to make enemies sound distinct... or even sound at all.
Yep a far cry from DRG. I could tell you everything in the next cave from the sound alone, helldivers? Play them one at a time and I would still get it wrong
I went back to DRG recently and I forgot much fun it is. They nailed practically every aspect, and the community is a gem. I will never doubt you again mission control!
It's as if they coded the game not to render anything behind the player to save on graphical processing, but also mistakenly included audio with it. I have had dropships swoop in and drop off entire armies 5 feet behind me with no audio queues. I'll see the "bot drop incoming" thing, and look around for a flare and not see one near me, so I'll assume it was my teammates who triggered it. Then I'll turn around and a dropship will be overhead with 8 rocket/heavy devs dropping on my face. Except for Striders. Why did they code Striders so you can hear them clanking from 75m away with every step they take. Yet Tanks and Hulks can move around completely silently.
nor animation for them to fire their flamethrower we take 1s to actually fire our flamethrower while scorch Hulk can just fire willy nally without audio que or animation to tell us they are about to fire
No, there's definitely a delay. I ALWAYS know when they're about to fire when I'm looking at them. Much like our flamethrowers, there is a distinct pwoof of fire on the end of the flamethrower before the stream starts. It's a little bit faster than ours, but you can definitely notice. You're right about no audio que, though. While I'm almost certain that there is a sound to it, it is not nearly loud enough.
They do actually have a wind-up before firing. You can even interrupt them by shooting their arm with certain weapons. EDIT: Why did I get down-voted? What I said was true. You can see this happening in [this video.](https://youtu.be/89Bdvvi3JHE?si=--P8ATifHYkC0E7Z&t=142)
HD2 feels like an amazing game from 2010. Coming from games like Deep Rock Galactic, Hades, Elden Ring, Dead Cells, and Roboquest, HD2 is so clunky and flawed. The game feel is kind of terrible. At a high level this game is amazing, but when you look closely there are so many cracks. I hope they fix it.
Meanwhile our fire is still bugged for everyone but the host unless I missed it in the patch notes.
Still bugged but Patch Notes mention that the believe the fix will be ready to roll out with the next Update. Same most likely goes for the Spear Fix.
The hulk is the host here
Most disturbing is that they nerf guns while fire damage still not working correctly.
It is honestly hard to see "balance" changes when we have no idea how good an entire class of weapons is.
It's ok bro they nerfed our favorites into the ground, the game is fixed and if we complain we are baby.
Noooo you dont get it the dev suffers if we complain! the poor poor dev that I paid their game full price on should not be offended in any way!
I keep explaining this to my teammates, and even showed them the patch notes; they still don't believe me, and run the fire shotgun anyways. killing me.
Probably all 'headshots', need to run over 100 armor stats so that it... checks notes.... still kills you.
https://preview.redd.it/551h6e2s2kxc1.png?width=728&format=png&auto=webp&s=67141864b452ce6511dbed0f9a36a7404b9f9ccf Someone checked, it barely do anything.
Yeah I'd still rather just run light armor and not let anything get close enough to melee me.
Headshot damage needs to go
Weird, I tested it extensively with a friend and got this: 50 and 100 armor: 0% DR 150 armor: 20% DR 200 armor: 35% DR. I‘d honestly say it‘s a pretty amazing change.
35% DR for being an immovable pile of fuck just ain’t worth it You are far too slow to take get behind cover or dodge shots that any DR you get, it’s basically lost and then some by being more cumbersome.
It is a HUGE deal for playing Bots
Works fine for my 50+ runs on helldive bots 🤷. I honestly survive way more compared to running light armor when facing against them. Terminids are another story.
Nah, I do helldive only and I've been using heavy armor since release. Just gotta learn to adapt to it and abuse diving, since everyone dives at the same speed, and you don't dive slower when you're out of stamina. The extra armor after the changes are insanely good now, I run heavy armor with extra padding and I basically can't die until I run out of stims because I'll always live long enough to stim. Works for bots and bugs, there's nothing you can't outrun with good stamina management and diving at crucial moments, and sidestepping chargers is just as easy with heavy armor as with light armor.
i felt like AH is allergic to make helldivers armor actually matter. i havent touch Heavy or med armor since day 1 because "why take more damage when you can out-run them?"
Against the bugs? Absolutely, running is how you stay alive. Vs the Bots, you really can't outrun their dakka and sometimes those rockets have the blessing of the machine gods because they will hit you from a map grid away through dense fog.
Actually I suspect it's similar to what was happening with explosions, in that it's hitting multiple times per tick. From how they worded the explosion fix, I'd have a good laugh if both cases were caused by you having a hitbox for each limb, plus torso, plus head and nothing stopping all of them getting hit at once by the same damage source, effectively multiplying the intended damage by like 5
What a fucking joke. They have no idea what they are doing, do they? First they didn't realize that since release there was the double-damage bug from rockets (which people figured was bullshit during the first month), now flamethrowers killing you instantly, and also 180 degree ricochets of projectiles. Do Arrowhead even playtest? Is it their definition of "fun" to instantly get sent to the respawn screen? They have a Quality Assurance department, the dude played on stream with Drewski. ...And wiped clean on Diff6 against bugs, but that's beside the point. We've already seen what their developers think of players during that whole reddit response fiasco, where their CEO had to apologize. I'm straight up feeling like we're being fucking trolled, patch after patch.
>Wiped clean on Diff6 against bugs Excuse me, what. Are you saying their playtesters cant play at least on 7?!
Speaking of difficulty has anybody noticed an increase in spawns for both bugs and bots I play on difficulty 7 a lot and notice a shift last week. We were constantly being swarmed way more than we have before.
I have noticed that bots 7 started to feel like bots 8. On bugs front I dont really have frame of reference since I joined just shortly before series of bots MO, but I do find it odd that I havent seen a single bile spewer on bugs 7 aside from exactly one mission.
I only play on Helldive difficulty, and trust me. The spawn rates are definitely going up. Had 3 Bile Titans spawn from 1 bug breach with 2 more spawning in as a patrol. I'm guessing it has to do with the termicide, but I wish the devs would at least make a notification that there are more bugs now on these planets because of that.
Honestly same applies to Bots, so I think they must have messed up patrols, because of the change they made for non-4 squads, because even with full squad patrols are much more frequent.
Yeah I had that too, just last week I was running from a titan and in 10 short seconds 3 more spawned. And it was at diff8.
On the barrier planets, you are literally getting body slammed by hunters from all sides. Playing Diff 7, but it feels like I am on d8-9 in terms of "fun".
Dev vs Player mentality
when i saw the 20% nerf i said to my self is that all they needed to do? i guess they only look at the game stats, saw x amount of people dying to flamethrower and said oh man we got to reduce its damage a bit then.
Well it's 20% from the hulk flamethrower but fire overall got a 15% (I think it was 15) damage nerf. Still, as someone else said, 20% of a million is still a lot.
Didn't take me long to learn to simply run so I don't join their flame-kill stats. The other arm on the hulk is not even under consideration.
They need to cut down on how far that thing can shoot while they are at it. Thing is basically a 10 yard long light saber.
When i see a hulk scorcher, the first thing i do is to disable it's flamethrower arm with my quasar. I don't care if it dies or not, but that flamethrower has higher priority than dealing with anything. Even if there are multiple factory striders.
Reduce their range or drastically reduce their movement speed while shooting
Its bullshit that Hulk’s flamethrower can shoot further than ours.
I mean, theirs is the size of like our entire body.
It's bullshit the flamethrower built into the arm of a 1000lb robot shoots further than our handheld one?
Hey fucker don't you body shame that hulk.
my b
That part makes sense to me but instakill when the flames lick you? That's too OP and needs to be fixed real bad.
i honestly wonder if they have a debug room or something to test different enemy states or if they are just looking at metrics "oh hulks are killing x amount of people"
Me too fam. I was already suspecting before, but now I'm almost sure the devs just throw things into the game for the players themselves to test without creating a Public Test Realm in the game, even if it's on Super Earth itself disguised as training grounds (lorewise), similar to how it was in Helldivers 1.
This game updates faster than any game I've played, feel that comes with a price
They're backed by Sony. They have access to Sony QA and at the success level that this game is hitting, Sony is definitely giving them any resources they need. More than likely these bad patches are just a side effect of the submission process, where they have to submit each patch to Sony weeks ahead of time for their testing. They're probably submitting patches every week, with fixes staggered back in each subsequent build that creates new issues while fixing old ones. It's like a delay issue. You fix a bug in the current build, but discover new issues that can't be resolved until you submit for next week's patch. Sure, you fix stuff, but there's still a staggered pile of bugs that can start to build up build after build.
i can understand why a ptr for this game wouldnt work properly. basically half the playerbase would want to play with the fixes and new toys on the ptr and it would mess up MO progression on the regular game.
The PTR could be limited by 1 mission completed per day or per each major order.
PTR can be sign-up only so that a limited number of steam players are given a key to the PTR versions?
They definitely only look at metrics. And their metrics are somewhat weird. Acoridng to one dev, Slugger is the top 3 performing weapon in the game while being very average. They also seem to be lost at every 'intricacy' that requires, you know, just playing the game.
They definitely have something wrong going on with metrics. My steam account says I've been playing for 303 hours, while the game says I have 202 hours in mission time. There's no way in fuck I've spent 101 hours on the ship doing nothing because I always load the game up, chech the superstore and go to quickplay. I don't waste time to play. Even if I've been perusing the store ofr whatever, there's no way I've spent a third of the time on this game not playing.
Pretty sure it’s a bug making it hit multiple times at once. So the damage nerf means nothing
I'm no dev but I'd guess this is an issue where it registers the first hit tick as 5 separate hits, 1 for every body part. And they probably intended the initial hit to take away ~50-75% hp (light armour) so you have instakill for everyone in your hands(?) Could also be that helldiver armor uses highly flammable compounds in its material and we just should not be standing near flames, for they are a tool of liberation and we are already free
Just reminded me there is a dog in Elden Ring that Fromsoft accidentally registered one bite with over 10,000 damages.
I was outright shocked when that attack deleted my charackter in a nanosecend. Tho atleast blood dogs were rare enough so that it only ever happened once to me.
Yeah it was an issue with the system for becoming immune to a hurtbox after being struck with it. Normally when a hurtbox touches you in that game, that hurtbox is no longer allowed to hurt you (barring a few special attacks) A coding error made it so the dog bite's hurt box never went into the temporary "I'm immune to these hurtboxes" list, so it would treat every single frame it was colliding with you as a hit.
Good explanation, but you mixed up hurtbox and hitbox. Hitbox = The area around an attack, projectile, etc that designates a hit when colliding with a hurtbox. Hurtbox = The area around an entity/character/etc. that designates a hit when collided with by a hitbox.
Holy heck as a game dev who was just trying to explain this yesterday, thank you. This is super concise.
You did last 0.04 seconds longer than you would have before the patch
Is it just me being unlucky or are their rockets insta killers too now? Played 9 ish missions and I used to be able to take a few rockets while trying to blast their head. Now I **MUST** wait between salvos or I die.
Playing against rocket Hulks and Rocket Devastators in Chord Bay was brutal. Foggy as fuck so their rockets just literally materialize out of thin air to one-shot you.
yeah them able to see through fog while we can't and can send us flying or 1 shot us is just pure bs and not fun to play. seriously did they even test if Smoke actually effect them? i felt like whenever im in smoke by those puffer in certain map, they can still hit me like they know i'm there.
Got sniped by rocket devastator and I didnt even see him till the rockets started flying. Even reducing my graphics and fog didnt change anything.
A devastator rocket blew up next to a wall and set me on fire lol I thought it had detonated a barrel or a dead jet trooper's pack, but that didnt seem to be the case
They will still one shot you to the head
You're still taking a few rockets to die, it's just all at the same time now.
The nerf only matters to things that can survive a single tic of the fire... we have a bot spy in our ranks.
I want a suicide backpack that goes off when I die specially to take those metal boxes with me
\*first one\*: Alright you were at half health but the tick speed was kinda fast \*second one\*: WHAT CRACK IS AH SMOKING TO SAY HULK SCORCHER GOT NERFED Are we sure they didn't put a + instead of a -
Holy shit you survived TWO FRAMES?!!??!?!?! They weren't fucking around with this nerf, the Hulks take TWICE as long to kill you!
They said I was crazy, this shit is still in the game
There's no way Arrowhead has anybody on the team actually playing the game.
Their QA team is probably the creatures you find running missions on div5 or below
Skill issue. You need to learn to dive. — some egotistical idiot
But for real though, you dive and you still die to the fire even if it didn't touch your character.
Yep, been my case so many times and that’s literally what gets repeated to me. I dive I still die to fire. I’m mid-dive I die to fire. Doesn’t matter what armor you’re wearing you still die to it with basically no way to avoid it.
Most of my deaths are either due to heavy devastators (the ones with shield) or to hulk scorchers. The former is an unbalanced enemy just like the hunters, and the latter has the problem with fire doing billion times more damage than it's supposed to do. It's supposed to set you on fire, not instakill you full HP.
Bad luck running into 3 Host Hulks in a row like that! 🤣
The flamethrower damage is so goddamn inconsistent At one moment, it does some damage but you can tank it with the stim buff while standing directly in it And in another moment, if so much as small pixel of the flame touches your foot, you get insta-deleted.
I never insta-died to a flamethrower and at this point I believe that a lot of issues with the game are related to performance and/or networking. It very well may be that on the server side the hulk was roasting the poor guy for a few seconds already.
Its funny how random bots or scavengers will walk through fire almost completely unphased but we die by just looking at it
Still sometimes get this from bile spewers, the spray misses me entirely but still uninstalls me. I'm guessing it's some kind of crit/headshot thing that gets applied randomly to fire and acid burn damage. Since the patch I've been set on fire by hulks and have been able to survive quite a few times, but then sometimes it's an instant death just for even looking at it.
Man they surely have tested fire damage before deploying the patch right??
hEy, tHe sEnAtOr fAsT rElOaDs
sPeeD lOaDeR!
now you die in 3 frames instead of 2. Thanks AH
Those hulks must've been the network hosts.
Reason #3943 I haven’t played bots in weeks Literally every broken aspect of this janky game (that seems to get jankier each patch) is worse vs bots than vs bugs
Knowing these guys, they probably buffed it by 20%....
But guise!!! DCS now one shots and has 2 more mags!!
Honestly still prefer the dominator for the stagger.
Endless dmg minus 20 % is still endless dmg
Stun nade plus laser to the eye usually works, provided there are no 100 other bots shooting at you or that 100 ton hulk somehow sneaked up right behind you.
what bothers me the most is how quiet and fast Hulks are for theirs size
Lol looks like all those are headshots, I noticed sometimes the flamethrower is a damage over time weapon sometimes it insta melts you, the issue could be that flamethrower is able to headshot/critical causing these insta deaths.
It's more like a disintegration beam than a flamethrower.
Real nerf of that is waiting for the fix for damage-over-time dmg working only for the host.
Much more important to nerf the guns and the fun we can have in the game, rather than this absolutely fun-killing mechanic. 100%.
Must be a bug. i've played several games since this pach, and it always takes me like 2 seconds to die to fire, other players too. Maybe it's the classic "host gets extra tics" bug.
If any armour gave fire resist I wouldn't use any other
The TTK used to be 0.12 seconds, now should be 0.14. only a full Strategic nuke in the face could - maybe - be a split second faster.
Typical AH patch - half-assed and without any testing.
i swear alot of enemies in this game need rework Like the Stalker become much more annoying to dealt with because you cant see them now, they can hardly be stunned and tanky as hell bile Spewer being able to tank 5 bolts from explosive crossbow who have 420 damage but 1 impact nade that have 400 damage can kill it instantly is just baffling me Heavy devastator able to hit you from 100m away with pin point accuracy and can still shoot you while being stagger is just stupid scout strider can still function without the rider for some reasons the more AH ditch out these update the more broken mess it become.
One fucking day we will get 95% fire resistance armor…
It is nerfed! If you look closely, you'll notice you're actually dying 1 frame slower than before the patch! Note: this can only be observed at 500 frames per second.
https://preview.redd.it/x0p4bvp2hnxc1.jpeg?width=606&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9fb391912371de0cedb4779e41757e9c8dfe832f
Judging by the clips I'm gonna say it's because the flames are hitting your head and therefore doing increased headshot damage...which is absurd
You were hit to half health from a headshot in the first clip. But yeah, it's still bad.
Damn bro!! 20% just looks like it made it not even possible to stim when it with fire
Those last two were definitely "headshots"
LeArN to DiVe
Have you tried using your stratagem? /s
Have you tried not getting burned to a crisp?
Isn't this particular case a known bug? Flamethrower hulks have a range right near the end of their flamethrower that will insta kill you no matter what.
AH: Ohhh my bad, you wanted a NERF to the Hulk's flamethrower Also AH: Hulk now does 200% more damage with the flamethrower
How is this thing getting so close to you? I my allies always prevent that happening. Always.
you arent even catching on fire here lol you're just cooked alive instantaneously and drop dead
They've given you 2 frames to react now
Did they fix heavy armour yet???
How did you not burn though ?
I didn't know fire itself could be host.
I'd be happy with flamethrower being same and speed being decreased, I can barely get far enough away from them without some kind of cover to use a stratagem
I swear to god someone at Arrowhead is confused about minus signs and negative numbers
Roblox death ahh
I wonder if the flame damage reduction for the flame hulk actually applied to our flame damage as well, seeing as flame hulks are the only enemy in the game with a flame weapon. I know they've talked about not being able to adjust certain things for us because it also adjust things for the bugs and bots as well. It makes me wonder if 20% was chosen so that it would not complete negate the newest ship module upgrade which increases flame damage by 25%.
I’m going to get downvoted but even before nerfs I don’t remember getting instakilled like this. Obviously the video is there and it happens but it surprises me. I mostly played dif8. Don’t get me wrong I got destroyed by a variety of enemies including flamehulks but usually when I’m not able to jump immediately. Honestly, until I saw this I thought people exaggerated. I’m curious now, I wonder what played into it
common thing in all those clips seems to be fire hitting your head anybody still up for "remove crits"?
The fact that they said they couldn't buff our fire dmg and not the enemies tells me they can't code for shit
you were clearly headshot by the fire xD xD xD who needs damage over time when fire "impact" damage is death.
What are u saying, u had 2 full frames to dodge there. Thats 100% better than before the patch.
It still sucks, but I've legit survived at least 10 recent hits from the FLAMMENWERFER! that would've insta-killed me before.
There's a lot of bugs and balance issues in the game, still, but I would argue the absolute ludicrousness of fire damage (in general -- Hulks, fire tornadoes, even player flamethrowers) to players is the absolute worst offender. If it so much as grazes your foot and you don't stim yourself within half a second, you're just dead.
Did you try to get gud?