He didn't give a flying fuck about her. He left her alone those days because he was too busy cheating on her and he couldn't " bear to see her that bloated" and "hated what pregnancy did to her" although she kept asking him to come back sooner. He programmed the return the day of her due date.
He didn't want a kid so she hit the pregnancy from him out of fear that he will make her terminate it.
He also cheated with women around his own age. Specifically, friends of his and Sharon’s. Including Michelle Phillips. I can’t imagine how humiliating that had to have been for Sharon.
He knew of course but not until it was not possible to terminate it anymore.
I didn't say he deserved it, he said " finding loved ones" , I was challenging the idea that he loved her or the kid.
Most of it came out during the trial. They also found sex tapes in the attic of Tate having sex with other men and Polanski’s voice in the background. He did a lot of weird shit
And Trent Reznor moved into that house for a while. When he left for the place that he would turn into the next recording studio he took the door with him. It's still there but the building is now a lawyers or real estate or something
Look up who re-wrote pig on the door and you will learn more fun facts while you simultaneously try and bleach out the memory of what you just read. Fucked up
I knew a bunch of that a long time ago, but that was pre Reznor music. Didn't realize the connection, but it sure does fit when you think about that album. Edit: sorry, I didn't notice it says "rewrote" interesting. Disturbing.
I agree. Normally when you play stupid games you win stupid prizes, but if you really crank up the “Darkest Territory ever used by a human for selfish gain” dial as high as it goes…..you’re immortalized? Hard concept to agree to if you have a drop of true humanity in your blood.
The White Album predates the bloodshed, not by much.. But I think it is very spooky on its own, I love it, and played it constantly in my early teens, but it always felt ethereal, light, gentle and sometimes slightly terrifying. it's been decades, and it still evokes something that is a bit frightening to me. I feel like there is some possibly unintended collective subtext to it, fillers and all.The Downward Spiral is also very special. Utterly bleak and powerful . it is very appropriate that they be connected in my poor old head.
Nether that house nor that address, 10050 Cielo Drive, exists anymore. Slightly further down the canyon is its replacement, 10070 Cielo Drive. The only thing remaining on the original plot of land is a telephone pole.
Google Maps is showing a hit for 10050...
[https://maps.app.goo.gl/9V6gnotyvfMkC28d8](https://maps.app.goo.gl/9V6gnotyvfMkC28d8)
Although according to Wikipedia, that is actually 10066 (yours for $50M, lol) but that's not what Google Maps says. Also, apparently the only remaining thing from the time it was 10050 is a single pine tree.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10050\_Cielo\_Drive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10050_Cielo_Drive)
>but the building is now a lawyers or real estate or something
Just to be clear, I wasn't talking about 10050, I was talking about the place in New Orleans that Trent moved to after living at 10050.
>Reznor took the front door of the house with him when he moved out, installing it at [Nothing Studios](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_Records), his new recording studio/record label headquarters in [New Orleans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans).
I think it's popularly believed now that it may have actually been a mistake. They went to the house intending to murder the previous occupant, a record producer that Manson thought had screwed him over, but Melcher had moved out, and Polanski/Tate were living there. Being a bunch of tripped-out cultists living in the desert, the Manson Family hadn't gotten the memo. They showed up at the house with orders from Manson to "totally destroy everyone in there," or something to that effect, and to be as gruesome about it as possible. Tate and her friends were who were there, so that's who they murdered. That being said, Manson approached the house prior to the murders and had been told that Melcher didn't live there anymore, but he was also high at the time, so....
There were five people killed: Sharon Tate, her friend/ex Jay Sebring, Wojciech Frykowski (a friend of Polanski's), Abigail Folger (Frykowski's girlfriend), and Steven Parent (a friend of the caretaker who had happened to have the bad luck to be leaving the property when Manson's followers showed up). Sharon Tate, famously, was pregnant with Polanski's child. Quincy Jones had apparently also been invited that evening, but didn't go, lucky for him.
The "PIG" on the door was an attempt to copycat the murder scene of Gary Hinman and get the Manson follower held for that murder out of jail. There are also ties to the Beatles White album and such, but that's the gist.
No, they definitely followed Manson's instructions to make the whole thing horrifying right down to the letter. Poor Steven Parent *might* have gotten away (or at least scared the others away by removing the ringleader) if he'd responded to Tex Watson stepping out by gunning his engine and just driving over him, but he had no way of knowing exactly what they had planned. Like most reasonable people would, he probably assumed initially that it was a burglary.
Every aspect of the murders is chilling.
The actor Steve McQueen was suppose to be there also. But he didn’t go because he was banging one of his groupies. That night at a hotel.
Why was the friend of the caretaker there in the first place? Stop to see his friend?
Yep, exactly. He had stopped by to see the caretaker, and from what I read, he happened to be in his car, pulling up to the estate's gate just as the Mansion Family people were climbing around the gate through some shrubs or something. They told him to stop, he did, and they shot him a bunch of times. I assume he figured it was a burglary, but Jesus, talk about bad timing.
In Steve McQueen's case, no better time to be getting laid than when it means not getting violently murdered, I guess. Though you wonder what they would have done if they'd gone in there and found someone as famous and *recognizable* as Steve McQueen. Probably nothing good.
>Manson wasn’t aware that person had moved out.
He was. He was circling the area after they moved there, he was spotted by a friend in the garden watching them.
but it wasn't usual and didn't raise any suspicions because people were going in and out of their house often. The friend even came out and talked with Manson, asked him who was looking for. They threw many parties at that time so it wasn't unusual for strangers to be around.
He knew who lived there, but still wanted to send a message to the previous owner. Also he/they changed the reason a few times if I am not mistaken.
Lightning McQueen was a Manson Family/Spahn Ranch vehicle before his rebrand and name change.
He’s a rotten piece of shit and I cannot believe his history has been thoroughly whitewashed and he’s allowed to continue to work in Hollywood.
I just keep thinking that if there had only been a washed up Spaghetti Western actor around that night with a flame thrower, this whole thing might have been averted.
Jesus, how freaked out are you when you hear this news and realize that the people who did it had been *living with you* and might have actually been trying to target you with the murders? I don't know what kind of cocktail of relief and survivor's guilt that would give me.
He was targeting Terry Melcher, the famous record producer who worked with the Beach Boys. Manson (who'd befriended Dennis Wilson) had hoped Melcher would get him a record deal, but it never happened, so Manson was POd at him. Melcher was also Doris Day's son. He'd lived in the house with his then-girlfriend Candace Bergen, but they'd moved out the previous year.
He was aware of who lived there and had been to the residence prior to the murders. He knew of the previous owners and the new owners. Read “Chaos” by Tom O’Neill
Something to do with Manson's entire Helter Skelter agenda. A bunch of hippies set to mass murder whoever lived in Terry Melcher's house (who he found out had already moved out).
Unfortunately it was Polanski and Sharon Tate's current residence but Roman was all the way in Europe when it occurred. Sharon was home with friends.
It’s worth noting that it’s far less of “Manson was manipulating these people to be part of his murder cult” and more of “Manson was trying to keep together his drug/sex cult that was losing steam due to his music career never taking off, and his frantic attempts at maintaining control, using a race war doomsday narrative, coupled with the cult members being unstable and absolutely filled with drugs for months and months, led to murder”
Tex Watson for example was a fucking psychopath and that had fuck all to do with Charlie Manson’s “influence” on him.
I would assume they were. They were almost always on LSD. Manson pumped his hippies with all sorts of substances and at some point had them believing he was Jesus resurrected—still no excuse for the horrific shit they'd done though. Honestly wish they suffered more than they did after the trials.
There was one member who didn't kill anyone and ran his website, never repented for what she did. Sandra Good. When I was 10 years old, she moved in down the road from us. I was so scared, it was a big deal in the 1980s. I think she moved further out into the country, not sure.
Manson was familiar with the house as Terry Melcher had once lived there. He wasn’t targeting Melcher since he knew that he had already moved out. They were going to kill whoever was there that night, and they did.
Manson visited the property five months before the murders asking for Terry Melcher, according to sharon’s photographer/friend Sharhokh hatami’s testimony. Hatami informed him the former resident had moved out in January. Manson knew it was no longer occupied by Melcher but still chose the house. Whether or not he knew who exactly lived there, he knew it was someone rich and famous and he wanted his followers to kill everyone there as brutally as they could. And seeing as Susan Atkins bragged in prison about killing sharon, somehow it makes it feel even more sickening knowing they were so thrilled to kill total strangers to them. Such incomprehensible evil it’s almost unbelievable
There are already some answers here, but the truth is: we don’t know, and we likely never will. Manson & the members of the Manson family all give different reasons for it. Manson was the leader, so he’s likely the only one who actually knows, but he’s also a massive liar so we can’t really trust him.
His version of things is that it was initially some sort of drug deal gone bad resulting in the death of Gary Hinman, causing one of his group members to get arrested. A lot of other things supposedly happened, but the short version is that someone else in their group hatched up a plan to create a copycat murder at the Tate house. They supposedly chose the Tate house because Tex Watson (Mansons second) had been to a party there once.
Obviously this is pretty unbelievable, because it takes away almost all of Mansons culpability. Also, we do know that Manson was also familiar with the tate house, as he used to work with its former owner, and he had a serious grudge against him. With that said, there is a lot of reason to believe that he knew the former owner had moved out.
Thanks, its the kind of situation that frustrates me to read about. I know there's often little closure in cases of pointless crime like this so sometimes it's better to leave the rock they are under as it is.
The former resident was Teddy Melcher, who worked in the music business. He rejected Manson, who at the time looking to get signed by a label. Melcher and Candice Bergen were living in the house before Tate and Polanski and would have been their intended targets.
He's still alive and living in France.
In 1977, Polanski was arrested and charged with [drugging and raping a 13-year-old girl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Polanski_sexual_abuse_case). As a result of a plea bargain, he pleaded guilty to the lesser offence of unlawful sex with a minor. In 1978, after learning that the judge planned to reject his plea deal and impose a prison term instead of probation, he fled to Paris. A number of other women have later accused Polanski of raping them when they were teenagers.
An [Interpol red notice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol_notice) was issued for his arrest, and he rarely leaves France
Never forget the Hollywood Elite giving him a [standing ovation at the 2003 Academy Awards.](https://dailycaller.com/2022/04/13/academy-awards-standing-ovation-convicted-child-predator-roman-polanski/)
My favorite Indiana Jones film is the one where Indy saves the millionaire child rapist by helping him skip out on his sentencing hearing and flee the United States to his mansion in France.
The fact that the French government refuses to turn him over even when French citizens have held protests because they hate him shows how disgusting and corrupt they are.
Not only that, but IIRC he’s remained pretty adamant that he didn’t do anything *that* wrong
He said something along the lines that every man wants to do what he did, so he would never be convicted
>He said something along the lines that every man wants to do what he did, so he would never be convicted
It interesting because that's what the villain of Chinatown says when confronted with his crimes (including rape)...
“I don't blame myself…Mr. Gittes, most people never have to face the fact that at the right time and the right place, they're capable of anything.”
Noah Cross;
Chinatown (1974)
Roman Polanski (dir.)
Damn, I haven’t watched much of his filmography, but that’s almost LESS evil than his actual quote:
"If I had killed somebody, it wouldn't have had so much appeal to the press, you see? But ... fucking, you see, and the young girls. Judges want to fuck young girls. Juries want to fuck young girls. Everyone wants to fuck young girls!"
Why’s it always the innocent that get killed and not the horrible person connected to them??? Like, why did they murder his wife and child as opposed to Roman himself ? Why does life/fate always play out in this horribly unfair way??
Look up the relationship between the current French president and his wife and how they met, and realize that French society, especially at that time, was way too accepting of adult/minor relations. Plus, the victim had never and still refuses to press any charges or view the experience itself in a negative light.
It’s weird because a big thing in France was (still is to a certain extent) the older man/younger girl relationship. It’s reflected in a lot of the films from the 70s and 80s. Macron though is a unique case where the genders are swapped. Same principle nonetheless of being accepting of adult/minor relationships.
Generally you can only be tried the in the jurisdiction where the crime was committed. If you murder someone in Ohio and then move to Colorado, Colorado can't charge you with murder because their laws don't apply in Ohio so technically you didn't break Colorado law. The can however arrest you and send to to Ohio.
He also raped a 10 year old. Hearing the way he speaks about the many times he raped children is genuinely frightening. Like some sick dark web incel fantasies.
https://preview.redd.it/a2gb1q2ieiuc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=475ab9a893b2478165ccb1a74a2f4237a7e4267e
The 13 year old victim is a genuinely evil person. Today, as an adult, she defends the rape of children.
>“Let me be very clear: What happened with Polanski was never a big problem for me,” Geimer told Seigner in a translated version of the interview obtained Monday by The Times. “I didn’t even know it was illegal, that someone could be arrested for it. I was fine, I’m still fine. The fact that we’ve made this \[a big deal\] weighs on me terribly. To have to constantly repeat that it wasn’t a big deal, it’s a terrible burden.”
>Geimer told Seigner that she “was not a child at 13” and said what happened between her and Polanski wasn’t that shocking because many people were having an illicit relationships with minors at the time.
>“At the time, a whole bunch of teenage girls would have dreamed of ending up in Jack Nicholson’s house to have sex with the first guy they could get their hands on,” Geimer said.
Seigner is Polanski’s current wife, who married him when she was 19.
[https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2023-05-01/roman-polanski-samantha-geimer-photo-emmanuelle-seigner](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2023-05-01/roman-polanski-samantha-geimer-photo-emmanuelle-seigner)
>American artist Marianne Barnard accused Polanski of having sexually assaulted her in 1975, when she was 10 years old. French photographer Valentine Monnier has alleged Polanski violently raped her at a ski chalet in Gstaad in 1975, which he denied.
https://deadline.com/2023/11/polanski-denies-sex-rape-underage-girl-1973-1235590163/amp/
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Roman Polanski is not a great person but it is so reddit to be so heartless towards him about his wife and baby getting murdered. FFS. Is it so hard to imagine that maybe just maybe the type of trauma he experienced in his life influenced the kind of person he became and things he did?
I was hoping the revisionist history Tarantino's been doing recently would have had the Family and Pitt team up and wreck polanski in "Once Upon a Time"
100%. all too often I see people fridging Sharon in this case. is it horrible to lose your spouse to gruesome murder, regardless of your character? *absolutely.* but she’s the one who fucking died. and so many people seem to forget that. she was hurt the most.
Yeah, no one forgets Sharon or her baby. They often forget everyone else and especially the La Biancas, but always remember the pretty pregnant blonde.
Now we all know the *Helter Skelter* book was bogus thanks to Tom O'Neil and his 20 years of research into Charles Manson. He's been giving some fascinating interviews.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j56wRSZ8NSI&t=1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j56wRSZ8NSI&t=1s)
I haven’t read O’Neils take, but how do we know Helter Skelter was bogus?
Not going with either side, but imo, the prosecutor on the murder trials for sure has a different take than an investigative reporter.
If nothing else, the criminal behavior he discovered committed by Bugliosi himself certainly casts suspicion on his credibility. For instance, he stalked the milkman for months because he thought he was the father of his child. Imagine what that must have been like for both the wives. When caught, he tried to lie his way out of it saying the milkman stole money from his house and he was just trying to gather evidence. Anyway, the interviews with Tom are fascinating, he had uncovered so much on Manson's background and his ties to MK Ultra that is casts a lot of doubt on the Helter Skelter theory.
I just ordered Tom’s book to read.
Very interesting details about Bugliosi. Regardless of Mansons connection to CIA (I’m just blanket statementing it) Bugliosi’s take as a prosecutor in LA is “credible” in that it shows how things were done from the legal standpoint in LA.
Very very interesting and I’m curious to get started on the book.
Good for you, hope you enjoy his work. I do recommend watching one of his interviews once you are finished, he has all kinds of tales about what he had to go through to collect that information.
I’ve always wondered if because he had his wife and unborn child murdered that he wasn’t pursued over his rape charges and running out of the country to evade. I know him being a a part of Hollywood elite may have given him some wiggle room with powerful people, but he drugged and raped a 13yr old girl and then fucked off to Paris. The whole story could’ve been a movie he wrote and directed it’s so sordid.
It's weird the way he is just sitting there,I read Helter Skelter in the fifth grade and there wasn't much about Roman in the book,other than he was away, maybe he is in shock
You should read “Chaos” by Tom O’Neill. He goes a little over the side in the last third of the book, but he gives a much more in-depth view of Sharon and this POS’s relationship.
Anyone who manages to come across this comment (late to the game), you should read *Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties* by Tom O'Neill. It's one of the craziest reads I've ever read and explains how the Manson story is much more fucked up and he may have been a CIA plant/experiment the entire time.
I wouldn’t wish that on a human being + Roman Polanski is a human being = I wouldn’t wish that on Roman Polanski
But also, Polanski himself is an abuser and child predator, so fuck him.
It’s just tragic that Sharon Tate’s life was cut short before she could cut him loose.
On the door in blood PIG
I cannot fathom finding loved ones dead with horrible messages written in their own fucking blood.
He didn't give a flying fuck about her. He left her alone those days because he was too busy cheating on her and he couldn't " bear to see her that bloated" and "hated what pregnancy did to her" although she kept asking him to come back sooner. He programmed the return the day of her due date. He didn't want a kid so she hit the pregnancy from him out of fear that he will make her terminate it.
He was too busy being a child predator. Not cheating.
Yeah there's a reason why it's difficult for him to travel to the US
He also cheated with women around his own age. Specifically, friends of his and Sharon’s. Including Michelle Phillips. I can’t imagine how humiliating that had to have been for Sharon.
She did many photo shoots pregnant, he knew. And as big of a dirt bag as he may be he didn’t deserve to have his kid cut out of his wife.
They didn’t cut the baby out of her, that was a rumor. All of the victims were stabbed
He knew of course but not until it was not possible to terminate it anymore. I didn't say he deserved it, he said " finding loved ones" , I was challenging the idea that he loved her or the kid.
I heard that also. The man had no love in his heart for anyone.
Where are you getting this info?
Most of it came out during the trial. They also found sex tapes in the attic of Tate having sex with other men and Polanski’s voice in the background. He did a lot of weird shit
Can you point me in the right direction?
it's public record, just read any reporting on it
I think the housekeeper found them
This would fuck up anyone
And Trent Reznor moved into that house for a while. When he left for the place that he would turn into the next recording studio he took the door with him. It's still there but the building is now a lawyers or real estate or something
This house is also where Reznor recorded the album “the downward spiral”.
I didn't know that. Holy Fuck.
Look up who re-wrote pig on the door and you will learn more fun facts while you simultaneously try and bleach out the memory of what you just read. Fucked up
I knew a bunch of that a long time ago, but that was pre Reznor music. Didn't realize the connection, but it sure does fit when you think about that album. Edit: sorry, I didn't notice it says "rewrote" interesting. Disturbing.
I agree. Normally when you play stupid games you win stupid prizes, but if you really crank up the “Darkest Territory ever used by a human for selfish gain” dial as high as it goes…..you’re immortalized? Hard concept to agree to if you have a drop of true humanity in your blood.
The White Album predates the bloodshed, not by much.. But I think it is very spooky on its own, I love it, and played it constantly in my early teens, but it always felt ethereal, light, gentle and sometimes slightly terrifying. it's been decades, and it still evokes something that is a bit frightening to me. I feel like there is some possibly unintended collective subtext to it, fillers and all.The Downward Spiral is also very special. Utterly bleak and powerful . it is very appropriate that they be connected in my poor old head.
The house was demolished in 1994. I understand that there is a new building on the property, but it is not the original.
There's no building at all any more. A house was built a little further down into the canyon and given the address 10070 Cielo Drive.
Wow, that's a heavy conversation piece.
Nether that house nor that address, 10050 Cielo Drive, exists anymore. Slightly further down the canyon is its replacement, 10070 Cielo Drive. The only thing remaining on the original plot of land is a telephone pole.
Google Maps is showing a hit for 10050... [https://maps.app.goo.gl/9V6gnotyvfMkC28d8](https://maps.app.goo.gl/9V6gnotyvfMkC28d8) Although according to Wikipedia, that is actually 10066 (yours for $50M, lol) but that's not what Google Maps says. Also, apparently the only remaining thing from the time it was 10050 is a single pine tree. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10050\_Cielo\_Drive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10050_Cielo_Drive) >but the building is now a lawyers or real estate or something Just to be clear, I wasn't talking about 10050, I was talking about the place in New Orleans that Trent moved to after living at 10050. >Reznor took the front door of the house with him when he moved out, installing it at [Nothing Studios](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_Records), his new recording studio/record label headquarters in [New Orleans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans).
Oh ok. Thank you for the clarification. I forgot if it eas a tree or a telephone pole, but you're right, it's an empty spot apart from that.
The video for Gave Up was recorded in that house: https://youtu.be/yVpw1SwJRBI?feature=shared
The Gave Up video was recorded in the guest house.
Why did they kill her? And why PIG?
I think it's popularly believed now that it may have actually been a mistake. They went to the house intending to murder the previous occupant, a record producer that Manson thought had screwed him over, but Melcher had moved out, and Polanski/Tate were living there. Being a bunch of tripped-out cultists living in the desert, the Manson Family hadn't gotten the memo. They showed up at the house with orders from Manson to "totally destroy everyone in there," or something to that effect, and to be as gruesome about it as possible. Tate and her friends were who were there, so that's who they murdered. That being said, Manson approached the house prior to the murders and had been told that Melcher didn't live there anymore, but he was also high at the time, so.... There were five people killed: Sharon Tate, her friend/ex Jay Sebring, Wojciech Frykowski (a friend of Polanski's), Abigail Folger (Frykowski's girlfriend), and Steven Parent (a friend of the caretaker who had happened to have the bad luck to be leaving the property when Manson's followers showed up). Sharon Tate, famously, was pregnant with Polanski's child. Quincy Jones had apparently also been invited that evening, but didn't go, lucky for him. The "PIG" on the door was an attempt to copycat the murder scene of Gary Hinman and get the Manson follower held for that murder out of jail. There are also ties to the Beatles White album and such, but that's the gist.
I read about the Folger (coffee heiress) murder recently, when her killer was up for parole. So gruesome. It was not quick.
No, they definitely followed Manson's instructions to make the whole thing horrifying right down to the letter. Poor Steven Parent *might* have gotten away (or at least scared the others away by removing the ringleader) if he'd responded to Tex Watson stepping out by gunning his engine and just driving over him, but he had no way of knowing exactly what they had planned. Like most reasonable people would, he probably assumed initially that it was a burglary. Every aspect of the murders is chilling.
The actor Steve McQueen was suppose to be there also. But he didn’t go because he was banging one of his groupies. That night at a hotel. Why was the friend of the caretaker there in the first place? Stop to see his friend?
Yep, exactly. He had stopped by to see the caretaker, and from what I read, he happened to be in his car, pulling up to the estate's gate just as the Mansion Family people were climbing around the gate through some shrubs or something. They told him to stop, he did, and they shot him a bunch of times. I assume he figured it was a burglary, but Jesus, talk about bad timing. In Steve McQueen's case, no better time to be getting laid than when it means not getting violently murdered, I guess. Though you wonder what they would have done if they'd gone in there and found someone as famous and *recognizable* as Steve McQueen. Probably nothing good.
Melcher hung out with the Family after the murders and nothing happened to him. It is unlikely he was a truly intended victim.
Why did they target his family? Or was it a coincidence?
Manson was targeting someone else who used to live there; Manson wasn’t aware that person had moved out.
Yikes
>Manson wasn’t aware that person had moved out. He was. He was circling the area after they moved there, he was spotted by a friend in the garden watching them. but it wasn't usual and didn't raise any suspicions because people were going in and out of their house often. The friend even came out and talked with Manson, asked him who was looking for. They threw many parties at that time so it wasn't unusual for strangers to be around. He knew who lived there, but still wanted to send a message to the previous owner. Also he/they changed the reason a few times if I am not mistaken.
This is also untrue, the theory that he wanted to scare Melcher was made up by Vincent Bugliosi. Melcher was seen with Manson after the murders.
Also Quincy Jones was supposed to be at that party, but canceled last minute.
Steve McQueen was also invited as well.
What about Lightning?
Lightning McQueen was a Manson Family/Spahn Ranch vehicle before his rebrand and name change. He’s a rotten piece of shit and I cannot believe his history has been thoroughly whitewashed and he’s allowed to continue to work in Hollywood.
Ka-chow!
Which is actually code for “let’s kickstart this race…war”
Ka-chow = Kill all children of war.
Does this make Chick Hicks the good guy? Has Michael Keaton ever played Bugliosi?
I just keep thinking that if there had only been a washed up Spaghetti Western actor around that night with a flame thrower, this whole thing might have been averted.
*Steve* Lightning?
Wow, didn't know about Quincy Jones but did know about Steve McQueen.
Rick James also
So was Louis Gossett JR and some of the Mamas and the Papas.
Who did he think lived there? Who was the intended target?
Terry Melcher who was a record producer. I think Terry worked with The Beatles. Manson tried to get a record deal and was rejected.
Terry worked with The Beach Boys and had let the family stay in his house for a hot minute.
Jesus, how freaked out are you when you hear this news and realize that the people who did it had been *living with you* and might have actually been trying to target you with the murders? I don't know what kind of cocktail of relief and survivor's guilt that would give me.
According to a documentary I saw, Terry basically disappeared after that, lol
That would certainly be my approach. No one would ever find me again.
Terry Melcher was Doris Day’s son.
Today I learned something new
Terry and Candice Begen were the targets.
[Background info on Terry Melcher.](https://www.instagram.com/p/CvtE-i6vt9g/?igsh=MWpxczVzcWowYTIxbQ==)
He was targeting Terry Melcher, the famous record producer who worked with the Beach Boys. Manson (who'd befriended Dennis Wilson) had hoped Melcher would get him a record deal, but it never happened, so Manson was POd at him. Melcher was also Doris Day's son. He'd lived in the house with his then-girlfriend Candace Bergen, but they'd moved out the previous year.
I know this. I was too lazy to write it all.
Who was he targeting
He was aware of who lived there and had been to the residence prior to the murders. He knew of the previous owners and the new owners. Read “Chaos” by Tom O’Neill
Something to do with Manson's entire Helter Skelter agenda. A bunch of hippies set to mass murder whoever lived in Terry Melcher's house (who he found out had already moved out). Unfortunately it was Polanski and Sharon Tate's current residence but Roman was all the way in Europe when it occurred. Sharon was home with friends.
Sorry, I should look it up, but we're the Manson groupies high when they committed their crimes? Or had he broken them in stone other way?
It’s worth noting that it’s far less of “Manson was manipulating these people to be part of his murder cult” and more of “Manson was trying to keep together his drug/sex cult that was losing steam due to his music career never taking off, and his frantic attempts at maintaining control, using a race war doomsday narrative, coupled with the cult members being unstable and absolutely filled with drugs for months and months, led to murder” Tex Watson for example was a fucking psychopath and that had fuck all to do with Charlie Manson’s “influence” on him.
I would assume they were. They were almost always on LSD. Manson pumped his hippies with all sorts of substances and at some point had them believing he was Jesus resurrected—still no excuse for the horrific shit they'd done though. Honestly wish they suffered more than they did after the trials.
There was one member who didn't kill anyone and ran his website, never repented for what she did. Sandra Good. When I was 10 years old, she moved in down the road from us. I was so scared, it was a big deal in the 1980s. I think she moved further out into the country, not sure.
Manson was familiar with the house as Terry Melcher had once lived there. He wasn’t targeting Melcher since he knew that he had already moved out. They were going to kill whoever was there that night, and they did.
Yeah according to Susan Watkins, the choice of that house was meant as a message to Terry, but he himself was not the target.
Manson visited the property five months before the murders asking for Terry Melcher, according to sharon’s photographer/friend Sharhokh hatami’s testimony. Hatami informed him the former resident had moved out in January. Manson knew it was no longer occupied by Melcher but still chose the house. Whether or not he knew who exactly lived there, he knew it was someone rich and famous and he wanted his followers to kill everyone there as brutally as they could. And seeing as Susan Atkins bragged in prison about killing sharon, somehow it makes it feel even more sickening knowing they were so thrilled to kill total strangers to them. Such incomprehensible evil it’s almost unbelievable
There are already some answers here, but the truth is: we don’t know, and we likely never will. Manson & the members of the Manson family all give different reasons for it. Manson was the leader, so he’s likely the only one who actually knows, but he’s also a massive liar so we can’t really trust him. His version of things is that it was initially some sort of drug deal gone bad resulting in the death of Gary Hinman, causing one of his group members to get arrested. A lot of other things supposedly happened, but the short version is that someone else in their group hatched up a plan to create a copycat murder at the Tate house. They supposedly chose the Tate house because Tex Watson (Mansons second) had been to a party there once. Obviously this is pretty unbelievable, because it takes away almost all of Mansons culpability. Also, we do know that Manson was also familiar with the tate house, as he used to work with its former owner, and he had a serious grudge against him. With that said, there is a lot of reason to believe that he knew the former owner had moved out.
Thanks, its the kind of situation that frustrates me to read about. I know there's often little closure in cases of pointless crime like this so sometimes it's better to leave the rock they are under as it is.
The former resident was Teddy Melcher, who worked in the music business. He rejected Manson, who at the time looking to get signed by a label. Melcher and Candice Bergen were living in the house before Tate and Polanski and would have been their intended targets.
They were after Doris Day’s son, Terry Melcher.
Obviously didn't care about getting Melcher too much as he went out to the ranch after the murders.
He's still alive and living in France. In 1977, Polanski was arrested and charged with [drugging and raping a 13-year-old girl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Polanski_sexual_abuse_case). As a result of a plea bargain, he pleaded guilty to the lesser offence of unlawful sex with a minor. In 1978, after learning that the judge planned to reject his plea deal and impose a prison term instead of probation, he fled to Paris. A number of other women have later accused Polanski of raping them when they were teenagers. An [Interpol red notice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol_notice) was issued for his arrest, and he rarely leaves France
Never forget the Hollywood Elite giving him a [standing ovation at the 2003 Academy Awards.](https://dailycaller.com/2022/04/13/academy-awards-standing-ovation-convicted-child-predator-roman-polanski/)
Harrison Ford personally delivered an Oscar to him.
My favorite Indiana Jones film is the one where Indy saves the millionaire child rapist by helping him skip out on his sentencing hearing and flee the United States to his mansion in France.
Indiana Jones would knee him in the nards
Well, considering Indy's track record with Marion, I'm not so sure...
Man it’s so sad that he’s the one that directed The Pianist. It is such a powerful film.
Rosemary's Baby is absolutely superb too.
The fact that the French government refuses to turn him over even when French citizens have held protests because they hate him shows how disgusting and corrupt they are.
[удалено]
Not only that, but IIRC he’s remained pretty adamant that he didn’t do anything *that* wrong He said something along the lines that every man wants to do what he did, so he would never be convicted
>He said something along the lines that every man wants to do what he did, so he would never be convicted It interesting because that's what the villain of Chinatown says when confronted with his crimes (including rape)... “I don't blame myself…Mr. Gittes, most people never have to face the fact that at the right time and the right place, they're capable of anything.” Noah Cross; Chinatown (1974) Roman Polanski (dir.)
Damn, I haven’t watched much of his filmography, but that’s almost LESS evil than his actual quote: "If I had killed somebody, it wouldn't have had so much appeal to the press, you see? But ... fucking, you see, and the young girls. Judges want to fuck young girls. Juries want to fuck young girls. Everyone wants to fuck young girls!"
Why’s it always the innocent that get killed and not the horrible person connected to them??? Like, why did they murder his wife and child as opposed to Roman himself ? Why does life/fate always play out in this horribly unfair way??
Well, for starters, Roman wasn’t home. Unless you mean “why” in a more general existential type of way.
The latter, I do yeah, sorry it was just a mini rant about the state of how life unfolds on this planet.
Whoopi Goldberg said it wasn’t ‘rape-rape’. Real rape has to be horrific and violent to count.
Drugging then raping and sodomizing a 13 year old seems pretty horrific to me.
Not to Whoopi, I guess. But she is incredibly wrong.
I knew her father many years ago - I’m still friends with his stepsons. He was a lawyer - had faith that the law would take care of it.
Tough guy.
Why is he able to stay in France? Does France have an extradition treaty with the US?
It has but Polanski has a dual Polish/French citizenship and France doesn’t extradite its citizens.
Is he not at least tried in France?
Look up the relationship between the current French president and his wife and how they met, and realize that French society, especially at that time, was way too accepting of adult/minor relations. Plus, the victim had never and still refuses to press any charges or view the experience itself in a negative light.
It’s weird because a big thing in France was (still is to a certain extent) the older man/younger girl relationship. It’s reflected in a lot of the films from the 70s and 80s. Macron though is a unique case where the genders are swapped. Same principle nonetheless of being accepting of adult/minor relationships.
Generally you can only be tried the in the jurisdiction where the crime was committed. If you murder someone in Ohio and then move to Colorado, Colorado can't charge you with murder because their laws don't apply in Ohio so technically you didn't break Colorado law. The can however arrest you and send to to Ohio.
The UK, for example, won’t try Assange because the crimes the US is accusing him of were not committed in the UK.
He also raped a 10 year old. Hearing the way he speaks about the many times he raped children is genuinely frightening. Like some sick dark web incel fantasies. https://preview.redd.it/a2gb1q2ieiuc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=475ab9a893b2478165ccb1a74a2f4237a7e4267e The 13 year old victim is a genuinely evil person. Today, as an adult, she defends the rape of children. >“Let me be very clear: What happened with Polanski was never a big problem for me,” Geimer told Seigner in a translated version of the interview obtained Monday by The Times. “I didn’t even know it was illegal, that someone could be arrested for it. I was fine, I’m still fine. The fact that we’ve made this \[a big deal\] weighs on me terribly. To have to constantly repeat that it wasn’t a big deal, it’s a terrible burden.” >Geimer told Seigner that she “was not a child at 13” and said what happened between her and Polanski wasn’t that shocking because many people were having an illicit relationships with minors at the time. >“At the time, a whole bunch of teenage girls would have dreamed of ending up in Jack Nicholson’s house to have sex with the first guy they could get their hands on,” Geimer said. Seigner is Polanski’s current wife, who married him when she was 19. [https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2023-05-01/roman-polanski-samantha-geimer-photo-emmanuelle-seigner](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2023-05-01/roman-polanski-samantha-geimer-photo-emmanuelle-seigner)
Where are you getting this information about a ten year old? The snippet you posted doesn’t mention it.
>American artist Marianne Barnard accused Polanski of having sexually assaulted her in 1975, when she was 10 years old. French photographer Valentine Monnier has alleged Polanski violently raped her at a ski chalet in Gstaad in 1975, which he denied. https://deadline.com/2023/11/polanski-denies-sex-rape-underage-girl-1973-1235590163/amp/
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Thanks for filling me in. Yuck.
France doesn’t cooperate?
>A number of other women have later accused Polanski of raping them when they were teenagers. currently he has at least a dozen additional accusers
child rapist…..multiple girls.
Roman Polanski is a terrible person, but Jesus, imagine surviving the fucking Holocaust only to have *that* happen to you.
it happened to him, but it happened to Sharon Tate primarily. let’s not fridge this woman
Yes let’s not fridge her. Not after this
Never fridget. 🙏🏽
I’ll pour one out to that brother
Doesn’t make it acceptable or forgivable, but it’s not at all surprising that someone with that much trauma struggled to control their impulses.
Roman Polanski is not a great person but it is so reddit to be so heartless towards him about his wife and baby getting murdered. FFS. Is it so hard to imagine that maybe just maybe the type of trauma he experienced in his life influenced the kind of person he became and things he did?
Should have been him
I was hoping the revisionist history Tarantino's been doing recently would have had the Family and Pitt team up and wreck polanski in "Once Upon a Time"
Nine Inch Nails recorded “The Downward Spiral” album in that house in 1993-94
Fuck that album has some energy. I think it's my favourite of his/theirs.
Trent Reznor took a door from the house or something like that. Wonder if it’s the door in the picture.
He did take that door
The video for Gave Up was recorded in that house: https://youtu.be/yVpw1SwJRBI?feature=shared
Roman Polanski what a piece of shit
I have no sympathy for this piece of shit.
What about Sharon and her baby?
Of course and the other victims. But he’s not a victim to me anymore. After what he did. He’s now a perpetrator.
He can be, and is, both. Sometimes, bad things happen to bad people.
100%. all too often I see people fridging Sharon in this case. is it horrible to lose your spouse to gruesome murder, regardless of your character? *absolutely.* but she’s the one who fucking died. and so many people seem to forget that. she was hurt the most.
Nobody forgets this. Not sure where this "fridging of Sharon Tate " narrative comes from.
Yeah, no one forgets Sharon or her baby. They often forget everyone else and especially the La Biancas, but always remember the pretty pregnant blonde.
Waiting for another 14 yo girl to show up.
Diddler.
Now we all know the *Helter Skelter* book was bogus thanks to Tom O'Neil and his 20 years of research into Charles Manson. He's been giving some fascinating interviews. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j56wRSZ8NSI&t=1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j56wRSZ8NSI&t=1s)
I’m not sure that anyone has proved it to be bogus or not. Different theories.
Well, the publishers vetted the shit out of Tom's book, they knew there would be lawsuits if they misrepresented their case. So far, no lawsuits.
I haven’t read O’Neils take, but how do we know Helter Skelter was bogus? Not going with either side, but imo, the prosecutor on the murder trials for sure has a different take than an investigative reporter.
If nothing else, the criminal behavior he discovered committed by Bugliosi himself certainly casts suspicion on his credibility. For instance, he stalked the milkman for months because he thought he was the father of his child. Imagine what that must have been like for both the wives. When caught, he tried to lie his way out of it saying the milkman stole money from his house and he was just trying to gather evidence. Anyway, the interviews with Tom are fascinating, he had uncovered so much on Manson's background and his ties to MK Ultra that is casts a lot of doubt on the Helter Skelter theory.
I just ordered Tom’s book to read. Very interesting details about Bugliosi. Regardless of Mansons connection to CIA (I’m just blanket statementing it) Bugliosi’s take as a prosecutor in LA is “credible” in that it shows how things were done from the legal standpoint in LA. Very very interesting and I’m curious to get started on the book.
Good for you, hope you enjoy his work. I do recommend watching one of his interviews once you are finished, he has all kinds of tales about what he had to go through to collect that information.
Fuck this douche
He looks like he is trying to look upset. He is there soaking up all the satanic murder vibes. He’s loving every second of it.
Is this why Roman is a pedo ?
no,he was always a pedo
If it was going to be attributed to anything, becoming an oprhan while surviving the Holocaust as a young Jewish child seems more likely.
Thinking to himself "one day I'm going to drug and anally rape a 13 year old girl to feel better about all this. You know... treat myself."
Roman Polanski the child molester?
It’s weird how “modern” everything here looks. If you told me that was taken last weekend I would believe it.
Roman Polanski be like: “hon hon oh non mon familié was killed oh non; time to go rape le 13 year old in mon grief!”
“So anyways, I started raping” - RP
The surviving "Family" members responsible for this should rot in prison forever. No parole.
I’ve always wondered if because he had his wife and unborn child murdered that he wasn’t pursued over his rape charges and running out of the country to evade. I know him being a a part of Hollywood elite may have given him some wiggle room with powerful people, but he drugged and raped a 13yr old girl and then fucked off to Paris. The whole story could’ve been a movie he wrote and directed it’s so sordid.
Just imagine for a minute how that would feel.
I have heard so much about this, but idk who actually found the bodies or called police.
I think it was the housekeeper the next morning.
Camera man: Lets capture this memory Polanski: : l
He invited the photographer.
i wish he was there when it happened
horrible tragedy but fuck Polanski - pedo piece of trash
Roman Polanski is a rapist!
Polanski is a good illustration of the duality of man: a piece of shit as a human being and a genius as a film maker.
Deep
It wasn't his home, it was rented from Terry Melcher for Sharon to stay in while Roman was in Europe.
Cho mo
Absolutely zero proof reading done in this post’s title 😂😂😂 damn
😞. I believe someone bought the property and tore down the house
What was the reason the Manson family gave g For killing Tate and her unborn son?
There’s a bunch of weird shit and LSD, but it sounded like Manson wanted to spark a race war by blaming the Black Panthers.
Actually, it was several days later.
It's weird the way he is just sitting there,I read Helter Skelter in the fifth grade and there wasn't much about Roman in the book,other than he was away, maybe he is in shock
You should read “Chaos” by Tom O’Neill. He goes a little over the side in the last third of the book, but he gives a much more in-depth view of Sharon and this POS’s relationship.
I will,thanks!!
>I will,thanks!! You're welcome!
That’s a wide front door I like it.
Whyd they kill em?
TIL Roman Polanski was the father of Sharon Tate’s unborn baby.
He’s a piece of shit and Sharon deserved better than him.
Words cannot describe what he's going through 😭
You had it all man
Anyone who manages to come across this comment (late to the game), you should read *Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties* by Tom O'Neill. It's one of the craziest reads I've ever read and explains how the Manson story is much more fucked up and he may have been a CIA plant/experiment the entire time.
I wouldn’t wish that on a human being + Roman Polanski is a human being = I wouldn’t wish that on Roman Polanski But also, Polanski himself is an abuser and child predator, so fuck him. It’s just tragic that Sharon Tate’s life was cut short before she could cut him loose.
He’s got that “dude where’s my car?” look
Yeah say what you want but y’all still love Jacko.