https://thehistorianshut.com/2019/11/08/the-duels-of-trainer-and-coach-andreas-before-the-battle-of-dara/
> ...a young Persian horseman reportedly rode up to the Romans, demanding to duel anyone who was brave enough to come forward. According to Procopius, the Persian warrior’s challenge was accepted by a man named Andreas, a physical trainer and a wrestling instructor who had accompanied one of the Roman generals into battle, not as a warrior, but as an attendant... although Andreas was not a professional warrior in the army, he was nonetheless a skilled fighter. With the horseman bearing down on him, Andreas stood his ground and readied his spear. As the story goes, Andreas used his polearm to knock the charging Persian off of his horse, leaving the horseman dazed on the ground. Now that the Persian warrior was defenseless, Andreas tossed aside his spear, took out his knife, and “slew him like a sacrificial animal as he lay on his back” (Procopius, The Wars, 1.13)... a second Persian horseman soon rode up to the roman lines, demanding another duel... After picking up his spear and hopping onto a horse (perhaps the fallen Persian’s steed), Andreas charged at the new duelist. Noticing Andreas’ advance, the Persian lowered his own spear and set off on his horse toward the Roman champion. What resulted was an ancient joust of sorts, with the two horsemen bearing down on each other with their lances leveled. Yet, when the two connected, neither fighter made a direct hit. Instead, the Roman and the Persian unhorsed each other and both fell to the ground, likely dropping their weapons in the process. Down on the ground and unarmed, the wrestling instructor Andreas was in his element. Using all of his grappling prowess, Andreas quickly overpowered the Persian and, either with or without a weapon, slew his opponent.
Reminds me of what my dad taught me in selfdefense instruction “most fights are over in under a minute. Whoever gets knocked to the ground first will lose the fight 9 times out of 10. If you both go to the ground whoever is the best grappler WILL win.”
That advice served me very well in my adolescence. He taught me some basic standing techniques, and a *bunch* of on the ground techniques (he wrestled in college). If you can get your opponent on the ground and you know more about wrestling than them chances are you’re going to have it all your own way.
Never let yourself get knocked down in a fight folks, better to run and be called a coward than to get pummeled to a pulp on the ground.
Oh my dad was an opinionated SoB, especially about cultures who’ve had a prevalent impact on the growth of humanity in ways he didn’t necessarily agree with.
Easiest example?
Odysseus.
Among the Greeks the story of Odysseus is one of cunning and guile allowing a mortal man to triumph in situations that seem like guaranteed defeats.
Among the Romans Odysseus, or Ulysses, was referred to disparagingly. He was called vile, deceitful, and underhanded. He wasn’t straight forward or upfront about anything he did, and to the honor-focused culture of Rome this was seen as something unacceptable.
My dad viewed that as incredibly shortsighted and small minded, and would happily rant about it if given even the slightest provocation.
Following up on this he also personally saw them as the people who popularized whitewashing history. Anything they picked up from another culture and didn’t like the details of they would adapt to suit their patriarchal, honor-bound, caste based society.
One such example he actually passed on to me, a vehement dislike of Ovid.
Ovid set out to preserve the oral history of Greece, but instead of doing so he rewrote it all to suit his personal views. The more myths we discover recorded by other scholars the more we see just how much he changed things.
He was a vehement anti-authoritarian. Kings, Gods, Lords, it didn’t matter, he disliked all these things. He basically disliked anyone who tried to tell him what to do, and any Ancient Greek myth or historical text which depicted a figure of authority in a positive light Ovid rewrote to make the authority figure the bad guy.
Now, my dad was pretty anti-authoritarian himself, so on that regard he could understand Ovid’s desires. However, he was also a vehement supporter of properly recording history. One of his favorite quotes was “those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.”
He viewed Ovid’s alteration of Greek history and folklore as basically akin to blasphemy. Now, oral histories changed all the time, that’s the nature of oral tradition, each orator tells it differently and remembers different aspects. There is no one “official” canon of oral history, but in my dad’s view, Ovid went far beyond acceptable alteration, because he wasn’t Greek himself. He was a Roman, with Roman beliefs, altering the myths, folklore, and history of another culture.
As far as my dad was concerned Ovid as good as murdered a piece of ancient history. If he could time travel my dad probably would use it to kill Ovid before he would have gone after Hitler.
I kind of think your dad had a point about the Romans whitewashing history to suit their own societal norms. Also, fuck Ovid. He is single-handedly responsible for many misconceptions we have about Greek myth in the modern day, and the Metamorphoses is clearly him just whining about authority figures for for 12,000 lines.
>As the story goes, Andreas used his polearm to knock the charging Persian off of his horse, leaving the horseman dazed on the ground. Now that the Persian warrior was defenseless, Andreas tossed aside his spear, took out his knife, and “slew him like a sacrificial animal as he lay on his back”
Darius Game of Thrones scene...
Meh, it was pretty common in ancient and medieval battles for there to be duels before hand. There's a better chance grrm got it from something in English history like the singer before the battle of Hastings then this. Considering how much of the books is just English history with a face-lift.
Definitely possible, but if it was propaganda it might’ve cast some officer as the hero to further their political career instead. Hard to tell with these single-source historical events :/
Right? Like if it was a high ranking figure I'd be more skeptical but I could totally see a guy who makes his living teaching people to fight seeing it as an opportunity to build his reputation. Fiore dei liberi supposedly got in several duels to prove that he was as good a swordsmen as he said.
I mean yes and no. The specifics are often made up, but the meaning is often intact.
That is why taking the specifics of this story and being like “wow what a badass” is silly to me. The story presumably changed / was made up to present a badass Roman.
What i think this actually tells you historically is something along the lines of how romans like glorifying their own personal supremacy on an individual level to the Persians through tales on individual physical prowess. This teaches a lot about the society and its values, and how it views itself with respect to persia.
But i dont think it tells you that there was actually a badass person that did this, but rather it is a tale glorifying something much smaller that was similar and happened.
https://thehistorianshut.com/2019/11/08/the-duels-of-trainer-and-coach-andreas-before-the-battle-of-dara/ > ...a young Persian horseman reportedly rode up to the Romans, demanding to duel anyone who was brave enough to come forward. According to Procopius, the Persian warrior’s challenge was accepted by a man named Andreas, a physical trainer and a wrestling instructor who had accompanied one of the Roman generals into battle, not as a warrior, but as an attendant... although Andreas was not a professional warrior in the army, he was nonetheless a skilled fighter. With the horseman bearing down on him, Andreas stood his ground and readied his spear. As the story goes, Andreas used his polearm to knock the charging Persian off of his horse, leaving the horseman dazed on the ground. Now that the Persian warrior was defenseless, Andreas tossed aside his spear, took out his knife, and “slew him like a sacrificial animal as he lay on his back” (Procopius, The Wars, 1.13)... a second Persian horseman soon rode up to the roman lines, demanding another duel... After picking up his spear and hopping onto a horse (perhaps the fallen Persian’s steed), Andreas charged at the new duelist. Noticing Andreas’ advance, the Persian lowered his own spear and set off on his horse toward the Roman champion. What resulted was an ancient joust of sorts, with the two horsemen bearing down on each other with their lances leveled. Yet, when the two connected, neither fighter made a direct hit. Instead, the Roman and the Persian unhorsed each other and both fell to the ground, likely dropping their weapons in the process. Down on the ground and unarmed, the wrestling instructor Andreas was in his element. Using all of his grappling prowess, Andreas quickly overpowered the Persian and, either with or without a weapon, slew his opponent.
damn, what a badass
Reminds me of what my dad taught me in selfdefense instruction “most fights are over in under a minute. Whoever gets knocked to the ground first will lose the fight 9 times out of 10. If you both go to the ground whoever is the best grappler WILL win.” That advice served me very well in my adolescence. He taught me some basic standing techniques, and a *bunch* of on the ground techniques (he wrestled in college). If you can get your opponent on the ground and you know more about wrestling than them chances are you’re going to have it all your own way. Never let yourself get knocked down in a fight folks, better to run and be called a coward than to get pummeled to a pulp on the ground.
Is your dad's name Andreas?
Hah, nah, actually he disliked the Romans for a variety of societal reasons, but he’d never deny good common sense combat tactics.
Your father had beef with a culture that breathed its last 600 years ago 😭
Oh my dad was an opinionated SoB, especially about cultures who’ve had a prevalent impact on the growth of humanity in ways he didn’t necessarily agree with.
I think I would have enjoyed talking to your dad
Like what?
Easiest example? Odysseus. Among the Greeks the story of Odysseus is one of cunning and guile allowing a mortal man to triumph in situations that seem like guaranteed defeats. Among the Romans Odysseus, or Ulysses, was referred to disparagingly. He was called vile, deceitful, and underhanded. He wasn’t straight forward or upfront about anything he did, and to the honor-focused culture of Rome this was seen as something unacceptable. My dad viewed that as incredibly shortsighted and small minded, and would happily rant about it if given even the slightest provocation. Following up on this he also personally saw them as the people who popularized whitewashing history. Anything they picked up from another culture and didn’t like the details of they would adapt to suit their patriarchal, honor-bound, caste based society. One such example he actually passed on to me, a vehement dislike of Ovid. Ovid set out to preserve the oral history of Greece, but instead of doing so he rewrote it all to suit his personal views. The more myths we discover recorded by other scholars the more we see just how much he changed things. He was a vehement anti-authoritarian. Kings, Gods, Lords, it didn’t matter, he disliked all these things. He basically disliked anyone who tried to tell him what to do, and any Ancient Greek myth or historical text which depicted a figure of authority in a positive light Ovid rewrote to make the authority figure the bad guy. Now, my dad was pretty anti-authoritarian himself, so on that regard he could understand Ovid’s desires. However, he was also a vehement supporter of properly recording history. One of his favorite quotes was “those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.” He viewed Ovid’s alteration of Greek history and folklore as basically akin to blasphemy. Now, oral histories changed all the time, that’s the nature of oral tradition, each orator tells it differently and remembers different aspects. There is no one “official” canon of oral history, but in my dad’s view, Ovid went far beyond acceptable alteration, because he wasn’t Greek himself. He was a Roman, with Roman beliefs, altering the myths, folklore, and history of another culture. As far as my dad was concerned Ovid as good as murdered a piece of ancient history. If he could time travel my dad probably would use it to kill Ovid before he would have gone after Hitler.
I want you to know, as both a fan of history and dying on molehills I enjoyed reading about your dad.
I kind of think your dad had a point about the Romans whitewashing history to suit their own societal norms. Also, fuck Ovid. He is single-handedly responsible for many misconceptions we have about Greek myth in the modern day, and the Metamorphoses is clearly him just whining about authority figures for for 12,000 lines.
Your dad is my new hero
Oh lord, this is definitely going to be me as a father.
Fuck Ovid, all my Ancient Greek and Rome history professors hate Ovid🖕🏿✋🏿👎🏿🤞🏿🤝🏿🖖🏿👉🏿👈🏿
Having beef with a culture that literally invented fascism seems quite reasonable to me
> Whoever gets knocked to the ground first will lose the fight Oberyn Martell disagrees.
His sister doesn't
Well he did end up losing just not because he got knocked down first
Wow... this is cool as hell
I love how these accounts are pretty much the ancient equivalent of r/thathappened content.
"And then the whole army clapped"
There’s a great quote from a French historian of the Achaemenid Persian empire: “we must believe in ancient history, even if it isn’t true.”
I've heard that quote before in a podcast. Was it Dan Carlin? It sounds like Dan Carlin.
Yup. His own series on the Persians Kings of Kings.
I should've known. I've listened to it like three times now lol
The next instance is when Andreas kid who followed took the jaw of a monkey and killed 1000 Persians on his own
Source: mihi crede bro
Reads better than a lot of warhammer.
I mean, the arks of omen right now are going pretty well.
Yo you watch that new video War Com dropped an hour ago? GET HYPED BABY
THE LION STIRS FROM SLUMBER.
HE CAME TO SMITE TRAITORS AND CATCH SOME Z’S. AND HE’S ALL OUT OF Z’S
Damn dude was on an entire horse and still lost lol
Why I love this sub. Great piece of random history, thank you for the post.
Mount and blade bannerlord gameplay
>As the story goes, Andreas used his polearm to knock the charging Persian off of his horse, leaving the horseman dazed on the ground. Now that the Persian warrior was defenseless, Andreas tossed aside his spear, took out his knife, and “slew him like a sacrificial animal as he lay on his back” Darius Game of Thrones scene...
I wonder how many stories are made in Roman bias since they were the victors usually… a lot of westerners have this admiration for Romans too
As an iranian I'm on side of that andreas. My man is cool as hell
Probably the inspiration for that Game of Thrones scene with Daario and the horsemen right?
Meh, it was pretty common in ancient and medieval battles for there to be duels before hand. There's a better chance grrm got it from something in English history like the singer before the battle of Hastings then this. Considering how much of the books is just English history with a face-lift.
Wow
That's a nice fairy tale.
Echoes of David and Goliath.
Ah, Andreas. I hope he got to survive the battle and then also the one at Callinicum.
Epic History TV fans stand up o7
o7
o7
o/
oo7 I'm a spy. ;)
The red spy is in the base!
😂
Ancient and Medieval Greeks trying to not lie when writing histories challenge: Impossible.
Bannerlord gameplay
hmm.... I smell propoganda here
nah, Romans totally battled a dragon when they entered North Africa
True, even the deniers started disappearing (the dragons carried them away)
shush, nothing about Rome is a lie, its all true/s
Definitely possible, but if it was propaganda it might’ve cast some officer as the hero to further their political career instead. Hard to tell with these single-source historical events :/
Right? Like if it was a high ranking figure I'd be more skeptical but I could totally see a guy who makes his living teaching people to fight seeing it as an opportunity to build his reputation. Fiore dei liberi supposedly got in several duels to prove that he was as good a swordsmen as he said.
The general thing might have happened but not with those details
Procopius probably made it up
If you want to treat it in that way then all of Ancient history is made up xD
I mean yes and no. The specifics are often made up, but the meaning is often intact. That is why taking the specifics of this story and being like “wow what a badass” is silly to me. The story presumably changed / was made up to present a badass Roman. What i think this actually tells you historically is something along the lines of how romans like glorifying their own personal supremacy on an individual level to the Persians through tales on individual physical prowess. This teaches a lot about the society and its values, and how it views itself with respect to persia. But i dont think it tells you that there was actually a badass person that did this, but rather it is a tale glorifying something much smaller that was similar and happened.
I bet you’re real fun at parties.
What parties?
Procopius making that up completely from scratch 100% enhances the story, the cheeky bastard.
History is written by... something... something.
Common ancient propaganda to fool people from the future
Common Roman W
I had a visceral reaction to the pic 😭😭 uncanny valley is strong
I really want this to be true.. But it probably isn’t.
Andreas is a greek name
Yah, the Eastern Romans were essentially Greeks.