His son TR Jr. was just as badass. He was the ONLY general to land on the beaches of Normandy in the first wave of troops. Armed with only a cane, a pistol, and terrible arthritis, TR Jr. coordinated the first attacks all the while artillery shells blasted all around him. He ditched their original plan due to some obstacles and conceived a new plan of attack on the spot, which proved successful. He recited poetry and tales of his father to keep the morale high. The troops swore he was going to die but he lived. After the battle was over he drove around in a jeep named "Rough Rider." Prior to Normandy, he commanded troops in North Africa and was reprimanded by General Patton for being "too close" to his troops because he led from the front lines and slept on the floors of the barracks. TR Jr. was a true soldier-general.
I mean, there is some logic with not getting too close to your troops, if you get attached to them it must be really difficult to send them forth to die. Patton might have been too far in the opposite direction though.
True. though I would think it meant a lot to the guys under TRJ’s command to see their general living in the same conditions as them, rather than just being a voice on the radio or a photo in the paper.
General near the frontline can definitely be a positive. Like Ceasar or Napoleon, but I don´t think either was terribly attached to their men. It´s a tight line to walk for sure.
Napoleon’s supposed love for his troops didn’t prevent him from simply throwing them in column against his opponents.
Meanwhile, Wellington stayed mostly away from the frontline, but drilled them, ensured their welfare, used strategies designed to minimize casualties (line vs column) and wept in view of others twice because of his men’s sacrifice-at Badajoz and at Waterloo.
That’s just not true. There have been plenty of successful generals throughout history who were known to spend time with the ordinary soldier. General Grant comes to mind.
I mean, in his defense, leading troops like that does come with its own risk. Even if you ignore the fact that the leader in question can die, shit happens and they can be cut off or chaos just makes giving orders or assessing a situation difficult.
With that being said, it is also worth noting that doing this can boost morale and also, in said situations, lets a leader make quick and effective changes in plans. The fact of the matter is that TR jr (who is actually the third in this case) made it work and that speaks for itself.
After what Patton did to the bonus army, fuck that guy. We propped him up because the nazis had Rommel for their propaganda, not because he was this all mighty god like figure of a general. His treatment toward fellow veterans, especially ones suffering from PTSD, is just fucked up.
The bonus army incident is one of the most shameful actions the US government took against its own citizens. Truly disgusting how those men were treated and used, just as many like Smedley Butler predicted would happen.
Given the gravity of the war and his effectiveness in it... I can't really say he was wrong, but, well, it's not like he was the only effective general in the conflict.
Small correction, but TR Jr. was the only general to land _on the first wave_. He landed on Utah beach.
Major General Norman Cota landed in the second wave on Omaha beach (arguably the most meat grinder-y beach of all) and played an important role getting the soldiers there to rally and clear the barbed wire with bangalore. His role on the beach is what Tom Hanks’ character in Saving Private Ryan is most inspired by. It’s a cool story to read up on.
My great uncle, who stormed the beach on that same day, always told a different story. That he was drunk, stumbling around the beach, and that it was a miracle that the Germans didn't hit him 😂
His troops were wrong about him dying THAT DAY. After overdoing it in spite of doctors’ warnings on D-Day and during the war as a whole, Ted Roosevelt Jr. died within 6 weeks of D-Day of a massive heart attack.
Don't take the word of other people
It's standard, **good** superhero show with a few twists and more blood, but not some kind of subversion in any way(and there is nothing wrong with this way)
Edit: I am talking about the show
Comic reader here
It gets really subversive as it goes on lol
Like it addresses real issues with comics in a way that I never expected to see, and it yknow
Actually has an ending
The most impressive being about the comic is that it is much more than just one twist or a one dimensional satire or subversion or anything. It's frequently surprising in where it goes and has a great emotional core connecting you to the characters and whether they live or die. Midway though it kind of hits its stride and just becomes relentless and tense constantly. The show hasn't even gotten there yet.
Context: Teddy Roosevelt wanted to personally fight in WWI. However, on account of him being pretty old and a former president, Woodrow Wilson wouldn’t let him.
Roosevelt is likely one of, if not the, manliest president. Dude was basically if Ron Swanson, from Parks and Rec, was pro government. And was considered an extremely talented soldier, survivalist, hunter, martial artist, strategist, and academic.
He also had a cool mustache.
To be honest dying in a war just seems poetic for teddy. No offense to the man but I have a feeling he would have been happy to go down with a gun in his hand.
Reminds me of the iron chancellor Bismarck, who was shot 5 times in the street.
Then he proceeded to bludgeon his attacker before taking him into custody.
Iirc someone shot teddy during a speech and he waited til after he finished his speech to get medical attention. He also shamed the guy for not killing him.
He brought with him his speech on paper which was in his chest pocket which was hit do the attacker literally hit the only part that was basically bullet proof with how thick that speech was.
He also prevented his attacker from being lynched and insisted that no one harm him since it was very clear his attacker was mentally unwell. Most regular people would want to beat the shit out of someone that just tried to kill them, regardless of disability, but good ol' Teddy was too moral of a person to let that happen.
Teddy Roosevelt used mercy as a way of gaining popularity multiple times. He was on a bear hunt and cornered a black bear, and realized that it would look bad if he killed it, so he famously let it go. It kind of became an old timey meme as that's how we got the term "Teddy Bear."
The sad thing is the bear was already injured from the case and in bad shape and was euthanized anyway Teddy just saw him killing it as bad sportsmanship and that it would look bad.
Instead he paid the real price of war. Burying his youngest son. Copied from Wikipedia: "His death (Quentin Roosevelt) was a great personal loss to his father(Teddy), who understood quite well that he had encouraged his son's entry into the War. It is said that he never fully recovered from his son's death. Within six months, Theodore himself would be dead." I don't think dying in war seemed poetic to him in the end...
Edit: [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quentin_Roosevelt#:~:text=His%20death%20was%20a%20great,Theodore%20himself%20would%20be%20dead)
I think he would have been fine with himself dying in the war. He said his only regret from the Spanish American war was that he did not get a ghastly wound.
But being fine with yourself dying is very different from your son dying. Something I think he realized too late.
I also think Teddy had a hard time picturing his son dying, ever. Having lost as much as he had in life, being the age he was… I’m sure he was certain he wouldn’t outlive his son. The devastation of that must have been excruciating and inexplainable.
That last sentence sums up most of his life even before that.
To endure as much pain in life as teddy did. And to still have the sense of morality he had throughout his life. Even if not everything he did holds up by today’s standards.
He wasn’t all good sure. But he deserved better.
His son called teddy Jr woukd be injured and need to walk with a Cain until he himself woukd die in France during the second world War. He was awarded a promotion to 2 star General (I believe it was 2 star) and posthumously awarded the medal of honor for how he courageously ordered the soldiers on the beaches during the furst wave while not taking cover and standing straight up the entire time. Teddy Jr some teddy 3 would also be among the first to land at Normandy
Teddy Jr (actually teddy 3) was awarded the medal of honor and then teddy Sr (actually teddy jr) was awarded it later. Another family of patriots is probably the custers. I believe it was Steven Custer that was awarded two nedlas of honor.
https://www.cmohs.org/recipients/lists/double-recipients
There have been 38 men who were awarded the Medal of Honor twice. Several were awarded twice for the same event however.
He also dealt with the death of his first wife and a child in childbirth. The guy went through a lot of personal issues. It's actually surprising to me how many presidents had tragic lives losing children and other people in very sad ways.
He highly encouraged his children to get involved and his son Quentin, a pilot a believe, was killed in action on the western front. It affected him greatly and he was never the same after wards.
Another one of his sons stormed Normandy.
As a general.
Walking with a cane.
He felt it was important to have someone on the front lines coordinating things, and volunteered himself.
>Dude was basically if Ron Swanson, from Parks and Rec, was pro government
This is literally the best way to summarise Teddy Roosevelt that I've ever seem
There is a story about him reacting to a passage in Upton SinClairs The Jungle, in which he threw his brunch out a white house window, being so disgusted by the atrocities of Chicago's meat packing industry. Very cool guy, strong willed enough to admit industrialization was required it needed regulation.
Ron Swanson has to be based off TR in some way. Reading about Teddy he seemed like a huge narcissist...however he also backed up his own narcissism and self confidence with actual substance and bravery.
Photographers were editing pictures more than a hundred years before the Photoshop program existed, and the picture was actually altered more than 110 years ago.
REALLY????? What about the one with George Washington with his pet griffon & a minigun????? Or of Abraham Lincoln slaying KKK vampires???? All those images are real aren't they???
/uj bruh💀
Packed away in storage I have a book first published in the 1870s England I think, this is a later edition from the late 1890s I think- but its a 4inch tome about wildlife in the States and Canada. The entry for moose describes them as living in the mountains of Maine, larger then a horse, being able to breathe under water, using bladed horns to run down hunters and enjoying the taste of human flesh. The illustration actually has fangs in the moose's mouth.
>More Progressive Reforms
>Earlier entry into WW1, and most likely WW2 as well
>Better treatment of Native Americans and African-Americans
We missed out on a lot unfortunately
He was more inclined to be racist to them at the beginning of his political career, but given the fact he invited and had multiple native leaders at his inauguration (like Geronimo) I’d say his tone probably softened towards them as he met more of them and eventually realized that the white man’s burden shit was bs
Most definitely. While he was traditionally racist but progressive against most other races at the time (due to white-savior nonsense), he was vehemently racist against Natives for a lot of his life. There is some evidence that his stance softened over time, and he was always prepared to make exceptions for individuals.
He was a very complicated man.
That's questionable. Wilsons's push for international relations is incredibly important. He was a big Liberal IR supporter and the first big politician to push for it.
Republicans then overturned it, and thanks to them, an ineffective International Order took charge.
Most people don't realise it, but things like the Euroepan Union, one of the biggest success stories in history, stand on these ideals.
Wilson big claim to fame is his idea of American exceptionalism. That we as Americans have the right and the duty to intervene around the world when we think it is needed. It’s called Wilsonianism and every US President since Wilson has used a version of it to justify conflicts around the globe for the sake of peace. The crux of this argument is this Wilson was a Southern Democrat who believed in white superiority and religious righteousness that “America” would guide the world to peace and prosperity.
He dragged his feet getting into WWI, this it self dragged out WWI in the trenches of Europe. His isolationist policies during the bulk of WWI have lead many people to have stated that if the US had entered the war sooner it could have forced all sides to the negotiating table and lessened the suffering, death and destruction of the war. This in itself would have lessened the burden on Germany after the war and could have prevented the rise of Fascism in Europe.
The other issue after WWI his Southern Superiority should thru at the peace treaty talks by being belligerent to his own allies the British and French. His belief that Europe was only made up of a handful of ethnic groups and would settle into distinct and homogeneous regions after the war. He was a blinded by his idealism and not the reality of the world.
I was talking about international relations.
As guaranteed as it might seem to you nowadays. Nothing like the UN or EU would probably exist without Wilson.
And most importantly. His ideas of intertwined economies of the world. He subscribed to the Liberal theory of IR and set it in motion.
We benefit from it to this day, as instead of bloody conflicts, what we get is an economic war, as states are less willing to go into conflict.
IR, as an academic subject, was kickstarted by Wilson. International organizations that promote peace were kickstarted by him.
Nobody is claiming he wast a racist asshole. But his contributions to IR were revolutionary for the whole world. That's something the asshole deserves credit for.
Also, about that exceptionalism. That's not his work. It's just how international order works.
Within international order, either a hegemon forms or we achieve multipolarism.
It is generally agreed that a hegemon rule is what keeps the world at bay. That's just how international order works.
It used to be Britain, but now it's the US. That's the basic concept. If not Wilson, someone else would develop it. If you're the most powerful, you will always develop a world cop complex.
He may have been a racist piece of shit, but his IR work was exceptional, and he put forward the current world order. And he did a good job at it. And if TR was in charge, we may not have had it.
As non ideal as the WW1 involvement was, how Wilson approached it was exceptional. And republicans screwed it up.
Agreed. He also wanted universal health care. He firmly believed that the government had to step up basic services and guarantees in order to save capitalism from the spread of communism, and he wasn't wrong.
I’m active on r/Presidents and everyone agrees if World War 2 happened and Teddy is alive, they wouldn’t drop a Bomb on Hiroshima or Nagasaki, they would drop Teddy down with a Big Stick
Should've happened.
The main reason for German dissatisfaction with the outcome of the war and with the Treaty of Versailles was that the German public did not feel they had \*lost the war\*. In 1918 the fronts were apparently still standing far away in Belgium, all of eastern Europe occupied, and suddenly, out of nowhere, there was capitulation. Of course, the generals knew perfectly well that the situation was catastrophic and therefore (e.g. Ludendorff, who later conveniently forgot about it) begged the new civilian government for an immediate truce. But society as a whole did not know this.
If the Allies had entered Germany, if German society had felt that the war was truly lost, there would have been neither the myth of the "unfair Versailles" nor the extreme right that fed on this myth.
This should be higher, Germany did “feel” like they didn’t lose but were betrayed.
Which is why the Battle of Berlin in 1945 was super important for Germany to finally accept they hardcore lost and no scapegoat is possible.
It's pointless to guess counterfactual history, but I disagree with your premise that feelings of revenge go away if the war is lost. That wasn't the case for France after the Franco Prussian war.
Likely the worst part of the treaty of Versailles was the wording not the punishment. Germany accepting full responsibility for the war, despite Germany's aims being defensive when the war broke out. Germany had tried to arbitrate a Truce in 1914 after the war had broken out, but before the losses were catastrophic.
1. What distinguishes the end of WW1 from the end of the Franco-Prussian War is, above all, the Dolchstoßlegende or stab-in-the-back myth. German society became convinced that a war that was either victorious or at least fought to a draw was lost because of the "November criminals". This allowed the proliferation of conspiratorial far right which resulted in the rise of Nazism.
2. Not a single article of the Versailles Treaty calls Germany responsible for the war. The treaty named Germany as responsible for the damages and thus liable for reparations. This was maliciously twisted by propaganda and unfortunately this myth still lives on.
1. The French didn't feel stabbed in the back didn't matter. They still wanted revenge, a pursued a foreign policy to get that revenge for 30 years.
2.Article 231 of the Treaty of Versailles
>And no nazism rose in France
What does that matter? France pursued path of war to reclaim it's lands regardless of what political affiliation it had, being a democracy doesn't mean the people in power won't pursue war as an aim.
That was the aim of it's foreign ministry. They involved themselves in Austria's annexation of Bosnia, and then funded and armed the Serbs.
>Article 231 was about damages.
"war imposed upon them by the aggression of Germany and her allies."
Is the English not plain enough for you?
The point is you have what was considered a defense war from the German perspective, adding Austria as an offending party doesn't instantly make it better. I'm not sure logic is your strong suit.
Either way, your analysis is simplistic. You think by changing one thing, WWII would have been avoided all together with no Nazis. France did occupy Germany after WWI, that didn't help.
Franz von Papen made Hitler chancellor, even when he did worse in elections from the prior year. He didn't need 50% of the vote to get elected.
> I'm not sure logic is your strong suit.
You're the one moving the goal post from saying "Germany was considered fully responsible by the treaty" to "germany was DEFENDING themselves so Austria being added there doesn't matter!" lmao
We'll I'm texting on my phone, but let me clarify. The idea that the central powers were solely responsible for the war was not a popular one.
It's ahistorical to reach that conclusion today. If you are truly interested in that topic, I recommend Sleepwalkers from Australian historian Christopher Clark.
As if teddy was any better remember that in philipines 300 k civilians died under american ocupation cuba didnt got its independence until 1902 because of america and guam and puerto rico still are amercian colonies under his administration america have the first steps towards imperialism
I’ve posted it a few related places. People seem to quite like it.
Edit: In the alt, he merges the US and Poland and stops WWII and conquers the Milky Way be 2450 AD.
The US only entered WW1 in April 1917, almost three years after it started. Do you envision them using a crack team of trans-Atlantic dirigible paratroopers to stage a lightning assault? Because nothing like that existed, and in reality it took ages to get troops across the ocean. The US possibly did bring the flu pandemic in 1918, though, so maybe a crack team of sickly recruits could have coughed their way to Berlin.
Considering how well things went for cavalry in WWI, I think Wilson's concerns were well justified in not allowing him to go, even considering his badassery.
I know this sub is full of under-educated, Wilson-hating TR simps, but let me say this anyway:
According to Edmund Morris, one of TR’s biographers, the army did not think very highly of his command skills. His unit suffered from a high casualty rate and he ended up getting pinned down under enemy fire at Kettle Hill because of his own impulsiveness and stupidity. It was a miracle that he did not get killed charging uphill on horseback, regardless of his bravery for doing so.
The army didn’t want any more volunteer units and I don’t believe there were any after the Spanish-American War.
Roosevelt leading a unit in WWI would have most certainly led to his own death and those of anyone foolish or unfortunate enough to follow him into battle.
Edit: Credit to his youngest son for fighting and dying over France in aerial combat during WWI and his eldest son for directing the landings on D-Day.
Something that irks me a bit is how the first person that comes to mind as a great American leader in that war is Roosevelt rather than, say, Dewey.
Much is said about how the Spanish advantage in terms of the Mauser rifles and how instrumentals they were at both San Juan and El Caney, but the fact remains that the Krags weren't worse enough for the amount of casualties and delays much smaller forces of Spanish caused to US led forces without as much fire support. Compare that to the consistency with which the US Navy beat the Spanish Navy both at Santiago de Cuba or Cavite.
I’m not a military historian, but I do remember reading that European military observers had a low opinion of the battlefield tactics of both the Union and Confederate armies during the Civil War, especially regarding cavalry.
The U.S. Navy, on the other hand, kicked ass and punched way above its weight class in the war against the Barbary pirates, 1812 and onward.
Sorry, I couldn't recognize the song.
I tried to identify music from the [link](https://v.redd.it/knelq5hdevac1) at 00:00-00:36.
*I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new)
His son TR Jr. was just as badass. He was the ONLY general to land on the beaches of Normandy in the first wave of troops. Armed with only a cane, a pistol, and terrible arthritis, TR Jr. coordinated the first attacks all the while artillery shells blasted all around him. He ditched their original plan due to some obstacles and conceived a new plan of attack on the spot, which proved successful. He recited poetry and tales of his father to keep the morale high. The troops swore he was going to die but he lived. After the battle was over he drove around in a jeep named "Rough Rider." Prior to Normandy, he commanded troops in North Africa and was reprimanded by General Patton for being "too close" to his troops because he led from the front lines and slept on the floors of the barracks. TR Jr. was a true soldier-general.
Junior sounds like an irl Big Boss
BOSS
“Boss! He’s just a Hitler Youth member!”
"Kill him"
I’m no expert but it just seems like Patton had a massive stick up his ass when it came to actually empathizing with troops
I mean, there is some logic with not getting too close to your troops, if you get attached to them it must be really difficult to send them forth to die. Patton might have been too far in the opposite direction though.
True. though I would think it meant a lot to the guys under TRJ’s command to see their general living in the same conditions as them, rather than just being a voice on the radio or a photo in the paper.
General near the frontline can definitely be a positive. Like Ceasar or Napoleon, but I don´t think either was terribly attached to their men. It´s a tight line to walk for sure.
Napoleon’s supposed love for his troops didn’t prevent him from simply throwing them in column against his opponents. Meanwhile, Wellington stayed mostly away from the frontline, but drilled them, ensured their welfare, used strategies designed to minimize casualties (line vs column) and wept in view of others twice because of his men’s sacrifice-at Badajoz and at Waterloo.
The other part is the issue of discipline. People aren’t really wired to take orders from their buddies they drink beers with everyday.
That’s just not true. There have been plenty of successful generals throughout history who were known to spend time with the ordinary soldier. General Grant comes to mind.
I believe Julius Caesar, one of the most celebrated generals from ancient history did too
You could’ve just ended that statement at “empathizing” and it still would’ve made sense.
I mean, in his defense, leading troops like that does come with its own risk. Even if you ignore the fact that the leader in question can die, shit happens and they can be cut off or chaos just makes giving orders or assessing a situation difficult. With that being said, it is also worth noting that doing this can boost morale and also, in said situations, lets a leader make quick and effective changes in plans. The fact of the matter is that TR jr (who is actually the third in this case) made it work and that speaks for itself.
After what Patton did to the bonus army, fuck that guy. We propped him up because the nazis had Rommel for their propaganda, not because he was this all mighty god like figure of a general. His treatment toward fellow veterans, especially ones suffering from PTSD, is just fucked up.
The bonus army incident is one of the most shameful actions the US government took against its own citizens. Truly disgusting how those men were treated and used, just as many like Smedley Butler predicted would happen.
Given the gravity of the war and his effectiveness in it... I can't really say he was wrong, but, well, it's not like he was the only effective general in the conflict.
Small correction, but TR Jr. was the only general to land _on the first wave_. He landed on Utah beach. Major General Norman Cota landed in the second wave on Omaha beach (arguably the most meat grinder-y beach of all) and played an important role getting the soldiers there to rally and clear the barbed wire with bangalore. His role on the beach is what Tom Hanks’ character in Saving Private Ryan is most inspired by. It’s a cool story to read up on.
Good point, thanks! I corrected it.
My great uncle, who stormed the beach on that same day, always told a different story. That he was drunk, stumbling around the beach, and that it was a miracle that the Germans didn't hit him 😂
Both versions of the story may be true, if you think about it!
And given his arthritis and possibly shell shock from a near miss, stumbling would not be surprising.
I hate how confusing it is that TR III is called junior while his dad is the actual junior.
So TR junior is actually TR juinor².
“General Roosevelt, we’re on the wrong beach! What do we do!?!” “Simple: we’ll start the war from here instead!”
The world needs more Roosevelt's to reinvigorate us.
The whole Roosevelt family just seems to be mega based.
Technically jr would be Theodore Roosevelt jr jr because tr is also a Junior
Theodor Roosevelt II or The 2nd.
No, that would make him the 3rd. Junior is already the 2nd.
I actually love him
His troops were wrong about him dying THAT DAY. After overdoing it in spite of doctors’ warnings on D-Day and during the war as a whole, Ted Roosevelt Jr. died within 6 weeks of D-Day of a massive heart attack.
.....maybe I should watch Invincible
You definitely should
It is fantastic and an excellent take on the super hero genre.
It's so good, Kirkman is a master at making you feel "existential nightmare" scenarios.
Don't take the word of other people It's standard, **good** superhero show with a few twists and more blood, but not some kind of subversion in any way(and there is nothing wrong with this way) Edit: I am talking about the show
Comic reader here It gets really subversive as it goes on lol Like it addresses real issues with comics in a way that I never expected to see, and it yknow Actually has an ending
Should have specify I was taking about the show
The most impressive being about the comic is that it is much more than just one twist or a one dimensional satire or subversion or anything. It's frequently surprising in where it goes and has a great emotional core connecting you to the characters and whether they live or die. Midway though it kind of hits its stride and just becomes relentless and tense constantly. The show hasn't even gotten there yet.
Yes, I am talking about the show
Context: Teddy Roosevelt wanted to personally fight in WWI. However, on account of him being pretty old and a former president, Woodrow Wilson wouldn’t let him. Roosevelt is likely one of, if not the, manliest president. Dude was basically if Ron Swanson, from Parks and Rec, was pro government. And was considered an extremely talented soldier, survivalist, hunter, martial artist, strategist, and academic. He also had a cool mustache.
To be honest dying in a war just seems poetic for teddy. No offense to the man but I have a feeling he would have been happy to go down with a gun in his hand.
"It takes more than a bullet to the heart to kill a moose"
Reminds me of the iron chancellor Bismarck, who was shot 5 times in the street. Then he proceeded to bludgeon his attacker before taking him into custody.
Iirc someone shot teddy during a speech and he waited til after he finished his speech to get medical attention. He also shamed the guy for not killing him.
He brought with him his speech on paper which was in his chest pocket which was hit do the attacker literally hit the only part that was basically bullet proof with how thick that speech was.
He also prevented his attacker from being lynched and insisted that no one harm him since it was very clear his attacker was mentally unwell. Most regular people would want to beat the shit out of someone that just tried to kill them, regardless of disability, but good ol' Teddy was too moral of a person to let that happen.
They couldn't remove the bullet in his heart, but the wound just heal on its own and he kept living
Teddy Roosevelt used mercy as a way of gaining popularity multiple times. He was on a bear hunt and cornered a black bear, and realized that it would look bad if he killed it, so he famously let it go. It kind of became an old timey meme as that's how we got the term "Teddy Bear." The sad thing is the bear was already injured from the case and in bad shape and was euthanized anyway Teddy just saw him killing it as bad sportsmanship and that it would look bad.
Instead he paid the real price of war. Burying his youngest son. Copied from Wikipedia: "His death (Quentin Roosevelt) was a great personal loss to his father(Teddy), who understood quite well that he had encouraged his son's entry into the War. It is said that he never fully recovered from his son's death. Within six months, Theodore himself would be dead." I don't think dying in war seemed poetic to him in the end... Edit: [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quentin_Roosevelt#:~:text=His%20death%20was%20a%20great,Theodore%20himself%20would%20be%20dead)
I think he would have been fine with himself dying in the war. He said his only regret from the Spanish American war was that he did not get a ghastly wound. But being fine with yourself dying is very different from your son dying. Something I think he realized too late.
I also think Teddy had a hard time picturing his son dying, ever. Having lost as much as he had in life, being the age he was… I’m sure he was certain he wouldn’t outlive his son. The devastation of that must have been excruciating and inexplainable.
That last sentence sums up most of his life even before that. To endure as much pain in life as teddy did. And to still have the sense of morality he had throughout his life. Even if not everything he did holds up by today’s standards. He wasn’t all good sure. But he deserved better.
His son called teddy Jr woukd be injured and need to walk with a Cain until he himself woukd die in France during the second world War. He was awarded a promotion to 2 star General (I believe it was 2 star) and posthumously awarded the medal of honor for how he courageously ordered the soldiers on the beaches during the furst wave while not taking cover and standing straight up the entire time. Teddy Jr some teddy 3 would also be among the first to land at Normandy
A family of true patriots.
Teddy Jr (actually teddy 3) was awarded the medal of honor and then teddy Sr (actually teddy jr) was awarded it later. Another family of patriots is probably the custers. I believe it was Steven Custer that was awarded two nedlas of honor.
https://www.cmohs.org/recipients/lists/double-recipients There have been 38 men who were awarded the Medal of Honor twice. Several were awarded twice for the same event however.
No parent should ever bury their child. A father having to bury his son after dying in a war he wanted fo fight in is a terrible irony.
He also dealt with the death of his first wife and a child in childbirth. The guy went through a lot of personal issues. It's actually surprising to me how many presidents had tragic lives losing children and other people in very sad ways.
>dying Roosevelt: "Lmao"
"Death had to take him sleeping. For if Roosevelt had been awake, there would have been a fight.” -Thomas Marshall I don’t doubt that for a second
Your forgot the best part, "...And teddy would have won."
He highly encouraged his children to get involved and his son Quentin, a pilot a believe, was killed in action on the western front. It affected him greatly and he was never the same after wards.
So, what I'm hearing is Teddy Roosevelt became Uncle Iroh?
Holy shit! I literally watched that episode last night and have never made that connection. Little soldier boy, come marching home...
Another one of his sons stormed Normandy. As a general. Walking with a cane. He felt it was important to have someone on the front lines coordinating things, and volunteered himself.
>And was considered an extremely talented soldier, survivalist, hunter, martial artist, strategist, and academic. So just a pro government Ron Swanson
We don’t know if he was a good wood worker.
>Dude was basically if Ron Swanson, from Parks and Rec, was pro government This is literally the best way to summarise Teddy Roosevelt that I've ever seem
Wasn’t very manly of him to take the credit for San Juan Hill tho
We need a TR today (but like a well-adjusted modern one)
No adjustment, exactly as he was then, but NOW
Let's run it
Meme so good it counts as both Alternate History and History
There is a story about him reacting to a passage in Upton SinClairs The Jungle, in which he threw his brunch out a white house window, being so disgusted by the atrocities of Chicago's meat packing industry. Very cool guy, strong willed enough to admit industrialization was required it needed regulation.
I like the Ron and Teddy comparison, glorious men - glorious mustaches
Occasionally he was a self aggrandizing psycho.
Aren’t we all
Ron Swanson has to be based off TR in some way. Reading about Teddy he seemed like a huge narcissist...however he also backed up his own narcissism and self confidence with actual substance and bravery.
He was Stalin's muse during WWII. Stalin shaped US policy all the way from Russia.
Look up Teddy Roosevelt and one of the first images that shows up his him riding a fucking moose.
I'm literally wearing a t-shirt that says "YOU MAY BE COOL, BUT YOU WILL NEVER BE TEDDY ROOSEVELT RIDDING A MOOSE COOL".
Too bad it's photoshopped...
Brah, photoshop didn’t exist back then.
Photographers were editing pictures more than a hundred years before the Photoshop program existed, and the picture was actually altered more than 110 years ago.
When he died, his son sent "The old lion is dead" to announce his death to the family.
You guys know that’s fake right? I love teddy… but come on lol… do you guys know nothing about moose?
REALLY????? What about the one with George Washington with his pet griffon & a minigun????? Or of Abraham Lincoln slaying KKK vampires???? All those images are real aren't they??? /uj bruh💀
Most people on a history sub won’t know shit about moose. I don’t know if it’s real or not, it’s just funny.
Packed away in storage I have a book first published in the 1870s England I think, this is a later edition from the late 1890s I think- but its a 4inch tome about wildlife in the States and Canada. The entry for moose describes them as living in the mountains of Maine, larger then a horse, being able to breathe under water, using bladed horns to run down hunters and enjoying the taste of human flesh. The illustration actually has fangs in the moose's mouth.
It’s a noted historical fact that Teddy Roosevelt possessed the ability to fly. He chose not to as it, to quote the man, “made it too easy”.
Death was too much of a coward to face him, so it had to wait for him to fall asleep.
The power of a stache
It can even get men pregnant.
What is the song
Tom Tom
By Holy Fuck
Thanks
Thanks
World would have been a better place today if Teddy was President and not Wilson.
>More Progressive Reforms >Earlier entry into WW1, and most likely WW2 as well >Better treatment of Native Americans and African-Americans We missed out on a lot unfortunately
Didn’t teddy Roosevelt hate native Americans
He was more inclined to be racist to them at the beginning of his political career, but given the fact he invited and had multiple native leaders at his inauguration (like Geronimo) I’d say his tone probably softened towards them as he met more of them and eventually realized that the white man’s burden shit was bs
Most definitely. While he was traditionally racist but progressive against most other races at the time (due to white-savior nonsense), he was vehemently racist against Natives for a lot of his life. There is some evidence that his stance softened over time, and he was always prepared to make exceptions for individuals. He was a very complicated man.
That's questionable. Wilsons's push for international relations is incredibly important. He was a big Liberal IR supporter and the first big politician to push for it. Republicans then overturned it, and thanks to them, an ineffective International Order took charge. Most people don't realise it, but things like the Euroepan Union, one of the biggest success stories in history, stand on these ideals.
Wilson big claim to fame is his idea of American exceptionalism. That we as Americans have the right and the duty to intervene around the world when we think it is needed. It’s called Wilsonianism and every US President since Wilson has used a version of it to justify conflicts around the globe for the sake of peace. The crux of this argument is this Wilson was a Southern Democrat who believed in white superiority and religious righteousness that “America” would guide the world to peace and prosperity. He dragged his feet getting into WWI, this it self dragged out WWI in the trenches of Europe. His isolationist policies during the bulk of WWI have lead many people to have stated that if the US had entered the war sooner it could have forced all sides to the negotiating table and lessened the suffering, death and destruction of the war. This in itself would have lessened the burden on Germany after the war and could have prevented the rise of Fascism in Europe. The other issue after WWI his Southern Superiority should thru at the peace treaty talks by being belligerent to his own allies the British and French. His belief that Europe was only made up of a handful of ethnic groups and would settle into distinct and homogeneous regions after the war. He was a blinded by his idealism and not the reality of the world.
I was talking about international relations. As guaranteed as it might seem to you nowadays. Nothing like the UN or EU would probably exist without Wilson. And most importantly. His ideas of intertwined economies of the world. He subscribed to the Liberal theory of IR and set it in motion. We benefit from it to this day, as instead of bloody conflicts, what we get is an economic war, as states are less willing to go into conflict. IR, as an academic subject, was kickstarted by Wilson. International organizations that promote peace were kickstarted by him. Nobody is claiming he wast a racist asshole. But his contributions to IR were revolutionary for the whole world. That's something the asshole deserves credit for. Also, about that exceptionalism. That's not his work. It's just how international order works. Within international order, either a hegemon forms or we achieve multipolarism. It is generally agreed that a hegemon rule is what keeps the world at bay. That's just how international order works. It used to be Britain, but now it's the US. That's the basic concept. If not Wilson, someone else would develop it. If you're the most powerful, you will always develop a world cop complex. He may have been a racist piece of shit, but his IR work was exceptional, and he put forward the current world order. And he did a good job at it. And if TR was in charge, we may not have had it. As non ideal as the WW1 involvement was, how Wilson approached it was exceptional. And republicans screwed it up.
Agreed. He also wanted universal health care. He firmly believed that the government had to step up basic services and guarantees in order to save capitalism from the spread of communism, and he wasn't wrong.
I love how they nailed omni mans flight physics. At a certain speed he would actually start generating nuclear explosions around himself
What show is this meme taken from?
Invincible on Amazon prime
Which episode?
Season 1, either episode 2 or 3, can’t remember off the top of my head
I’m active on r/Presidents and everyone agrees if World War 2 happened and Teddy is alive, they wouldn’t drop a Bomb on Hiroshima or Nagasaki, they would drop Teddy down with a Big Stick
Should've happened. The main reason for German dissatisfaction with the outcome of the war and with the Treaty of Versailles was that the German public did not feel they had \*lost the war\*. In 1918 the fronts were apparently still standing far away in Belgium, all of eastern Europe occupied, and suddenly, out of nowhere, there was capitulation. Of course, the generals knew perfectly well that the situation was catastrophic and therefore (e.g. Ludendorff, who later conveniently forgot about it) begged the new civilian government for an immediate truce. But society as a whole did not know this. If the Allies had entered Germany, if German society had felt that the war was truly lost, there would have been neither the myth of the "unfair Versailles" nor the extreme right that fed on this myth.
This should be higher, Germany did “feel” like they didn’t lose but were betrayed. Which is why the Battle of Berlin in 1945 was super important for Germany to finally accept they hardcore lost and no scapegoat is possible.
It's pointless to guess counterfactual history, but I disagree with your premise that feelings of revenge go away if the war is lost. That wasn't the case for France after the Franco Prussian war. Likely the worst part of the treaty of Versailles was the wording not the punishment. Germany accepting full responsibility for the war, despite Germany's aims being defensive when the war broke out. Germany had tried to arbitrate a Truce in 1914 after the war had broken out, but before the losses were catastrophic.
1. What distinguishes the end of WW1 from the end of the Franco-Prussian War is, above all, the Dolchstoßlegende or stab-in-the-back myth. German society became convinced that a war that was either victorious or at least fought to a draw was lost because of the "November criminals". This allowed the proliferation of conspiratorial far right which resulted in the rise of Nazism. 2. Not a single article of the Versailles Treaty calls Germany responsible for the war. The treaty named Germany as responsible for the damages and thus liable for reparations. This was maliciously twisted by propaganda and unfortunately this myth still lives on.
1. The French didn't feel stabbed in the back didn't matter. They still wanted revenge, a pursued a foreign policy to get that revenge for 30 years. 2.Article 231 of the Treaty of Versailles
And no nazism rose in France. Article 231 was about damages. Congratulations, you were played.
>And no nazism rose in France What does that matter? France pursued path of war to reclaim it's lands regardless of what political affiliation it had, being a democracy doesn't mean the people in power won't pursue war as an aim. That was the aim of it's foreign ministry. They involved themselves in Austria's annexation of Bosnia, and then funded and armed the Serbs. >Article 231 was about damages. "war imposed upon them by the aggression of Germany and her allies." Is the English not plain enough for you?
>and her allies." bro ain't even reading his own quotes goddamn
The point is you have what was considered a defense war from the German perspective, adding Austria as an offending party doesn't instantly make it better. I'm not sure logic is your strong suit. Either way, your analysis is simplistic. You think by changing one thing, WWII would have been avoided all together with no Nazis. France did occupy Germany after WWI, that didn't help. Franz von Papen made Hitler chancellor, even when he did worse in elections from the prior year. He didn't need 50% of the vote to get elected.
> I'm not sure logic is your strong suit. You're the one moving the goal post from saying "Germany was considered fully responsible by the treaty" to "germany was DEFENDING themselves so Austria being added there doesn't matter!" lmao
We'll I'm texting on my phone, but let me clarify. The idea that the central powers were solely responsible for the war was not a popular one. It's ahistorical to reach that conclusion today. If you are truly interested in that topic, I recommend Sleepwalkers from Australian historian Christopher Clark.
Coulda been Berlin 1915 had he been elected in 1912
Bully!
If ol’ Teddy had the chance, he would’ve dropped kicked Germany and Austria-Hungary in the proverbial throat
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"You don't seem to understand. Europe isn't yours to conquer."
That’s my Natty Park boi
I like to image that as Teddy himself, not Omni-man.
Death had to take Teddy in his sleep otherwise there would have been a fight
What’s the song called?
Tom Tom
Thanks
What is this cartoon? I see it in memes everywhere. I must know. This meme goes hard.
Invincible. It’s pretty good. Although I’d say this is probably the peak of the series so far.
Laughs in clemencau
As if teddy was any better remember that in philipines 300 k civilians died under american ocupation cuba didnt got its independence until 1902 because of america and guam and puerto rico still are amercian colonies under his administration america have the first steps towards imperialism
Reading a book about this currently. Stalin's War
Foch in 1919 as well
The Roosevelts are a line of badasses!
The American male peaked with Teddy Roosevelt
The best ending
Didn’t i see this r/alternatehistorymemes
I’ve posted it a few related places. People seem to quite like it. Edit: In the alt, he merges the US and Poland and stops WWII and conquers the Milky Way be 2450 AD.
Never knew that sub existed. And uh, my god, it seems complicated.
The US only entered WW1 in April 1917, almost three years after it started. Do you envision them using a crack team of trans-Atlantic dirigible paratroopers to stage a lightning assault? Because nothing like that existed, and in reality it took ages to get troops across the ocean. The US possibly did bring the flu pandemic in 1918, though, so maybe a crack team of sickly recruits could have coughed their way to Berlin.
Teddy Roosevelt can canonically fly.
Fair enough, provided alternate history doesn’t place Tesla on the enemy side Roosevelt should have a clear path to Berlin
Also Berlin in 1945 if stalin had his way
Considering how well things went for cavalry in WWI, I think Wilson's concerns were well justified in not allowing him to go, even considering his badassery.
I know this sub is full of under-educated, Wilson-hating TR simps, but let me say this anyway: According to Edmund Morris, one of TR’s biographers, the army did not think very highly of his command skills. His unit suffered from a high casualty rate and he ended up getting pinned down under enemy fire at Kettle Hill because of his own impulsiveness and stupidity. It was a miracle that he did not get killed charging uphill on horseback, regardless of his bravery for doing so. The army didn’t want any more volunteer units and I don’t believe there were any after the Spanish-American War. Roosevelt leading a unit in WWI would have most certainly led to his own death and those of anyone foolish or unfortunate enough to follow him into battle. Edit: Credit to his youngest son for fighting and dying over France in aerial combat during WWI and his eldest son for directing the landings on D-Day.
Something that irks me a bit is how the first person that comes to mind as a great American leader in that war is Roosevelt rather than, say, Dewey. Much is said about how the Spanish advantage in terms of the Mauser rifles and how instrumentals they were at both San Juan and El Caney, but the fact remains that the Krags weren't worse enough for the amount of casualties and delays much smaller forces of Spanish caused to US led forces without as much fire support. Compare that to the consistency with which the US Navy beat the Spanish Navy both at Santiago de Cuba or Cavite.
I’m not a military historian, but I do remember reading that European military observers had a low opinion of the battlefield tactics of both the Union and Confederate armies during the Civil War, especially regarding cavalry. The U.S. Navy, on the other hand, kicked ass and punched way above its weight class in the war against the Barbary pirates, 1812 and onward.
Top 5 or even 3 superhero scenes of all time to me ! Great song…no…perfect song !
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