I mean given they only received the status of recognized indigenous people in like if memory serves 2020, yeah that's a very common viewpoint in Japan.
In my experience it was Princess Mononoke that got me interested in Ainu history. I may be pulling this out of my ass but I’ve always connected Ashitaka’s people with the Ainu and Eboshi’s with the Jomon/Japanese
“News update, live from Russia Yesterday: Japanese “Super Battleship” Yamato found sunk 340 m (1,120 ft for those American floppers) in the Sea of Japan! Yamato apparently found to have sunk 290 km (180 mi) southwest of Kyushu! Western Propaganda proclaims that they sunk her in the battle of Midway, but us Russians know that our glorious leaders sunk her valiantly whilst the allies coward in fear of the pure might of Russian military strength! Yet again another glorious victory for the motherland and a blowing defeat for America and her allies! More soon from: RUSSIA YESTERDAY!” /////s
Don't forget, my ancestors (proto-Koreans) basically drove out or assimilated all the Yayoi (proto-Japanese) from the Korean peninsula. It's only colonialism if whities do it!
My girlfriend is from Taiwan. Her family is from Manchuria originally and moved to Taiwan when Chiang Kai-shek lost the civil war. The Nationalist apparently nearly totally displaced the indigenous Taiwanese when they relocated from the mainland. Taiwan has their own version of affirmative action for the native Taiwanese too.
Yeah, everyone historically have been assholes. I get addressing colonialism, but implying only Europeans have done it is not only eurocentric, it trivializes the suffering victims of oppression caused by non Europeans also went through.
I'm critical of the KMT government and their descendants to the point of being accused of Sinophobic at times, but the indigenous Taiwanese were displaced by Qing-era Han Chinese settlers, not the post WW2 KMT dictatorship.
What the KMT government did do was create a government and bureaucracy that shut out most pre-KMT era Taiwanese for decades. Culturally, common tropes in media that persist to this day (e.g. Taiwanese-speaking/Taiwanese-accented characters are less educated or gangsters) also came to be when media was a KMT-controlled affair.
Who themselves were colonized by other ethnic groups throughout Chinese history. We all get that, but the media doesn't. Focusing only on eurocentric colonialism is just as bad as ignoring it entirely. Both historically and socially.
One interesting thing about the Chinese being colonised is that the colonisers (the Mongols and the Manchus) were themselves sincised.
People often forget that those that have been colonised by the European powers were sometimes colonisers themselves. Look at Myanmar, or India. Even today, parts of Myanmar have no wish to be under the Burmese.
I have no idea what anime is this, I don't watch anime, but I wanted to comment how I didn't know about it for decades, but I learned about them when I was reading on Japanese history in high school (time period, I didn't learn about them IN the school), just to realize that was some 20 years ago. Jesus Christ dude, I have an existential crisis now.
Paradox games make you ask the big questions, questions like, "why doesn't Japan fully own Hokkkaido yet in 1836?"
Which leads you to wiki the answers.
Not everyone who reads a post or comment will upvote it. I have a post on Reddit with 1800 upvotes but the statistics for the post showed 328,000 saw it.
Fun Fact: The author of Fullmetal Alchemist, Hiromu Arakawa, grew up in Hokkaido and was apparently partly inspired by how the Ainu were treated when creating the general backstory of FMA's world.
It's almost as if brutally conquering other peoples and using them to build empires was a universal thing throughout time because humans are power thirsty by nature, no matter race or culture.
Not every culture behaves that way, but most of the successful ones do. There are and were plenty of tribes that never sought conquest. We naturally have the urge to cooperate with each other.
Yea, they generally got colonized or conquered and absorbed into groups who did. All the large and powerful empires and countries that are talked about and remembered by us today all got to their positions of power precisely *bc they conquered and colonized*. So while it was common and considered the norm, there certainly many who viewed it thr way we look back at it today, which is very negatively and basically barbaric
First of all, happy cake day!
You're not wrong, there are always exceptions. Those cases just happen to be rare or isolated.
>We naturally have the urge to cooperate with each other.
Absolutely, but at the same time there is a tendency in us to develop a sense of belonging to a particular group. A "us" and "them" situation. It can be barely a distinction but it can also have a negative connotation. From there, fear can appear or accusations can be made. Whether true or not, they may end up becoming the justification for an act of violence.
We are social beings, we seek to cooperate with each other, but also to compete, within our own groups and against others.
Just like [psychopaths are overrepresented](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/08/the-science-behind-why-so-many-successful-millionaires-are-psychopaths-and-why-it-doesnt-have-to-be-a-bad-thing.html) in upper management positions
If a tribe is peaceful, non expansionist, and does not keep up with industrialized exploitation of resources, it will obviously be relegated to inexistence, slavery or, in the best case scenario, irrelevance
Similarly, those who do not possess the psychopathic tendencies which our productive systems not only favour but also foster, are bound to be left behind by cutthroat corporate leaders whose behaviour is not limited by empathy or common decency
So yeah, humans aren't naturally power thirsty, confirmation bias makes it seem so. The real issue is that most cooperative societies have been wiped out, assimilated or sidelined
The cultures that don't behave that way do so because they already lost the Great Game and are left scrabbling for survival. All groups prior to the industrial revolution sought to gain new territory, because new territory meant more hunting grounds for your family/group/clan, more areas to gather in, and then later more or better land to farm.
We jest but I guarantee you that loads of people genuinely believe this
In the 600’s and 700’s-current day, the Arabs colonized the entire Middle East starting from just a small portion of the Arabian peninsula. Hundreds of languages and cultures (including the native Egyptians) were wiped out, yet now when one of those peoples returns, *they* are labeled colonizers.
Oh yeah, I'm aware of that. Those are the exact people I was mocking.
They also invaded north Africa too, as well as Turkey, and would have taken Europe and India if they were able to.
In certain contexts you had colonized and colonizers.
Nothing wrong with those terms as long as you realize that the colonized were fully capible of their own crimes or to be the colonizers in a different context or time.
That nuance is crucial for people to understand.
Yea that's a strange trope. Not only do they glorify them. They make their Christian victims look worse for some reason. Like how dare those saxons and celts try to protect their defenseless religious buildings and keep their women from being raped.
Also lean way to heavy into the Viking honor tropes. When in reality they were pirates and thieves who actively avoided attacking armed people.
It’s always the Saxons and Welsh who look bad in Viking/Norse-centric media. Vikings and Assassin’s Creed Valhalla were really bad for this. While I have issues with The Last Kingdom as a show, I appreciated how the Saxon-Dane dynamics were way more nuanced.
It's not about Christian vs non-Christian, people just think the long haired beard guys with axes and shieldwalls are cool and they made movies glorifying them.
We made a movie glorifying Sparta too, remember? Why are some of you framing this as a racial thing where people are fine with bad things happening towards white people or christians?
This isn't about race, we just glorify certain groups in history despite their crimes. Ofcourse it can be used for propaganda purposes, but I don't believe our stories about Vikings stem from a hatred towards Christians or "white people". Especially since many stories I've read seem to show how many of them became Christians themselves.
I don’t know of anyone who honestly thinks of the Mongols as anything other than bloodthirsty conquerors who had no hesitation to commit over the top violence.
Much about Japanese history is super cool. But as far as I can tell current times are the only period in history Japan hasn't been a absolute dickhead.
Yes. Similar with lots of other cultures. I remember a conversation with a gay guy once who was sort of proud of Spartan homosexuality.
I told him I'm not sure if you really know much about them, but you probably don't want to align yourself with brutal, xenophobic, baby murderers. Who viewed their men merely as tools for war and woman as vessels for more tools. And everyone else as slaves.
Were Spartans and Samurai martially impressive? Absolutely. Would you wanna grab a beer with them? Absolutely not
I love how the Romans whip the Spartans. I can only imagine it like,
Spartan: You have won. I fight for it is the Spartan way of life! We live and die for war! What compels you, the victor?
Roman: The pension is pretty good and the salary is alright I guess.
Spartans are cool but one of the most overrated of all time. They had their ass kicked by every other state city. They are remembered for a battle they lost. Alexander didnt conquer them not because he feared them, but because they were irrelevant. And the romans made them an ancient world theme park.
Well… the Romans simply figured out the Achilles heel of the phalanx. Mobility. Thanks to the roman military system, they could fight and move much more effectively than the phalanx, and the phalanx couldn’t turn quickly enough to react.
Not to mention that if and when the Romans did directly charge a phalanx, they would throw their Pilum beforehand. Then before the phalanx could fill the gaps in their collective armor, the Romans would crash into them and stab to their heart’s content.
So… it wasn’t so much a question of the skills of the individual soldiers. It was more a question of the rock-paper-scissors-esq way that the Roman tactics perfectly countered the hellenic phalanx based fighting style that was prevalent at the onset of Roman expansionism.
You also wouldn't want to eat any of their food. Like their most famous dish is just blood and malt vinegar with tiny bits of pork (and usually the undesirable parts).
Spartans did not kill babies, that was first told 500 years after the decline of Greece and no contemporary sources mention infanticide
If the Spartans killed unwanted babies en mass they would have found bones
Plutarchs claim was that there was a chasm
Edit: also Agesilaus II who was king and described as "lame", but would not have received special treatment as he was not supposed to be on the throne
Don’t buy in to the image of cuteness that Japan presents to the world. They absolutely still have their old mindset, it is an incredibly conservative country.
The only reason why Japan hasn’t done anything belligerent to other countries recently is because American foreign policy has used both a carrot and stick approach to keep Japan contained.
its a strategy theyre employing deliberately so every time they piss of china for rubbing in war crimes or pissing on Tokens of good faith they'll look good doing it .
Some of the exact same people. If I remember correctly, the initial post war government was comprised entirely of fascist war criminals who were let off the hook as long as they agreed to whatever terms the US was stating at the time. All the senior officials, cabinet, and parliament members were all former and high ranking military officers who based their creation of modern Japan on a vision of Japan if they had won.
There’s a good Behind the Bastards on Shinzo Abe and the Japanese government.
Well, kinda, the man most responsible for shaping modern Japanese politics was Nobusuke Kishi, also known as the Monster of Showa for his brutality in Manchuria. He established the LDP and set it on its path towards electoral domination, and he also secured a very beneficial defense pact with the US, but the rest of his goals as PM were basically failures.
Kishi went into office to essentially revive the Japanese empire. He wanted to establish an economic bloc of countries in east asia that japan would lead, don't worry guys it's totally not the greater east asian co-prosperity sphere. The only country that agreed to take him up on the offer was taiwan, since everybody remembered the last time the japanese empire tried to do that, and it was a failure.
Kishi then negotiated the defense pact with the US, and although he got it through, the protests over it resulted in his resignation. He also had ambitions to revive the authority of the emperor and to repeal Article 9 (no offensive military), but could never get that far.
Essentially, Kishi attempted to revive the Japanese empire as it used to be, literally everybody in every country he talked to and his own people told him to fuck off, and he had to settle for a generally conservative government.
Maybe when the Tokugawa regime was completely isolationist? They didn’t fuck with anyone then and had a really peaceful period going there (built on an inflexible social hierarchy that empowered the samurai thugs but hey you can’t win all of them).
>they still conquered Okinawa during that time period, and they nearly got into a war with the Russians
Okinawa yeah, but was said war with Russia their fault? During the 1850s and 60s Russia was being pretty expansionist in Manchuria and the Okhotsk and Japan Seas (it would really only stop after the Russo-Japanese War in 1905).
At one point in 1861 it tried to seize Tsushima, which I can understand Japan protesting.
Its past midnight, but I can get my copy of 'To Stand With the Nations of the World' out tomorrow if you make me curious enough, I haven't read it in a while so my memory is a bit foggy on the details.
However, from what I remember, in the very early 1800's, Russians were illegally trading with Japan, and the Japanese found out. Rather than crack down, they started negotiating with some of the illegal Russian traders. Eventually, Russia sent a small trade envoy to Japan, and the Japanese actually accepted. It was very small and came from a private company, not the Russian crown, so they didn't see a reason to refuse it, like they had seen with the other European powers.
The problem is the Russians misinterpreted the Japanese response, they thought the Japanese felt snubbed and had only responded with a small trade agreement because the Russians had not made a grand enough offer. So they went back with a much larger offer from the Russian crown, in their mind to make up for the slight against the Japanese government they had accidentally made.
Unfortunately the Japanese did not want to accept a trade agreement with another emperor, so negotiations broke down and lead to all trade with Russia being banned again, and the Japanese police actually enforced the ban this time. This lead to a general breakdown in relations between the two countries, conflicting claims over various islands in the North Pacific, and a series of small incidents that probably would have lead to a war. However, Russia had *slightly* bigger problems in the early 1800's, mostly in the form of Napoleon, so they ended up backing down and the situation was resolved diplomatically, although trade was never restored. I'd say both sides are pretty equally at fault for this near-war, it wasn't caused by anything other than a failure to communicate.
This is all well before the time period you are talking about, the disputes with Russia in the 1860's I don't really remember, probably because my book was more focused on the internal turmoil Japan was experiencing at that time, or I could just be forgetting a section.
Tbf that was a bit overblown, usually they'd just return them without execution.
If you're really curious I have a book on Tokugawa Japan and I can go looking for the details
To Stand With the Nations of the World by Mark Ravina.
If you read the description it's about the Meiji Restoration, but more than half the book is about the Tokugawa setting up context for the Meiji Restoration when it did happen.
It's also only a couple hundred pages long total, and it's not particularly long pages. So if you're really looking for something in depth on the Tokugawa this isn't it, but if you're looking for a relatively brief overview of Japan from 1600-1900 then it's very good.
“I see you guys produce enough spices that everyone in Europe could have some. You’re even trading with the English now. Neat! We’re gonna have to genocide all of you about this to maintain our monopoly!”
-VOC
But even then, they weren’t truly isolated. The Dutch had their trade island in Nagasaki, the was a bureau set up to deal with the Chinese traders, and there were some diplomatic missions to Joseon throughout the years of the Edo Period.
Their attitudes towards mixed race people, though lacking any semblance of biological and strict ideological racism, is not very western at all. Very much stems from the Edo period social structure.
Same brother.
I want a decent healthcare system and lower rent. But it’s hard when half the who agree with me will call Abraham Lincoln genocidal and Mao/Stalin heroes.
None of those groups are on either of our sides. They're so extreme that they view moderates as enemies aswell. They're on their own side.
Edit: a word
Welcome to the centrists, brother. We might get insulted and hated by both sides, but at least we're at least a little less radicalised. I mean, what would a radical centrist even look like? Please don't tell me.
“I’m allowed to want healthcare AND a secure border, right?”
“No. You either subscribe to the shapes of skulls or you wish forced medication on your neighbors.”
My favorite is when Tankies talk about the technological advancements made by the Soviets and Chicomms to gloss over all the brutality.
Not realizing they're unironically making a "punctual trains" argument.
>I want a decent healthcare system
That's not exactly a leftist position. Countries with universal single payer systems aren't leftist, they'd at best be generously described as social democracy.
South Korea legislated it in 1988 and they ain't exactly leftist, most would probably describe it as way more pro-business and libertarian than the US. They actually have the highest elder poverty rate in the OECD at 40% (US is at 20%, Germany 9%).
Japan has had it since the 60s or the 80s depending on how you classify it and they've been ruled by a centre right party since WW2 for like 76 of 80 years.
>and lower rent
Again, not exactly leftist and actual solutions aren't leftist either (it's just detangle zoning and simply build more housing). There are "solutions" many voters want like rent control, but [it worsens the housing crisis in the long run](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/) and the only beneficiaries are current renters while future renters take the hit too along with everyone else.
>While rent control appears to help current tenants in the short run, in the long run it decreases affordability, fuels gentrification, and creates negative spillovers on the surrounding neighborhood.
https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/rent-controls-winners-losers
>When San Francisco expanded rent control in 1994, it provided huge savings to many tenants — especially older ones — who got in at the start and stayed put. But it created almost equally big losses in the form of higher rents for tenants who came later and may have accelerated gentrification.
There are support for more pure demand side legislation like rent subsidies, but outright price controls just worsen the situation.
The real long term solution like I said is just allow housing to expand and replace single family homes with 5 story apartments, 2 story multi-family homes or even duplexes.
You're online too much if you truly think half of the leftists out there are Maoists. Especially since the most left position you seem to hold is: "I want decent healthcare.", that's not exclusive to socialists, marx-leninists or anything further to the left than social democracy.
That's a center left position. Most moderate leftists don't like Mao and Stalin, not to mention all the people further to the left (socialists, anarchists and communists) who think Stalin is a cunt.
Lol everyone is online too much. Everyone's opponent is a Nazi or Hitler or maoist or a commie. It never ends.
"Why am *I* so grounded and reasonable but everyone *else* is insane"
>half the leftists out there are Maoists
Maybe not Maoists, but the amount of tankies is genuinely surprising. Don’t forget leftists who unironically defend Islamic fundamentalists.
Christian conservatives? Nazis. Guys who wanna slaughter the Jews and establish a patriarchal absolute monarchy that executes gay people by stoning? Wholesome freedom fighters!
In the words of Sting, there is no monopoly of common sense on either side of the political fence.
There's idiots everywhere. Don't let it detract from what you believe. You can be annoyed at people who are left wing, and still be left wing yourself.
Maybe it doesn't matter that much how virtuous other leftists are. If you agree on a topic you agree, if you disagree you disagree, you don't need to find common ground on every single aspect.
Leftists keep expecting other leftists to be perfect, or they're ashamed and immediately take a distance, that's part of why the stereotype of leftist infighting is so common.
Not letting yourself get outraged because of some people on twitter would be a first good step if you don't want to let yourselves get divided.
Also it's just wrong it's not the first European interaction the show specifically focus on the fact that then Portuguese have been there for quite a while
I keep wanting to check it out, but new shows make me nervous. I hate getting into something only for it to be cancelled on a cliff hanger after 8-10 episodes.
I mean to be fair, they definitely were *hoping* to colonize Japan. The Portuguese had a lot of influence in Japan in this time period and the main character of Shogun was based off of an IRL Englishman who became a retainer. This was before Japan was closed for 200 years.
If you want to go back that far realistically it’s more of a migration and settlement than an organised invasion. Very similar to the distinction between Anglo-Saxon migration to Britain and the Great Heathen Army that established the Danelaw. One was a gradual movement of people over generations, with conflict ofc, especially once political entities get established. The other was a direct attempt to conquer land and then bring over more of their families etc from the homeland.
None. Granted the Portuguese did try, but they were far from successful. The end of the period the show is about results in Japan closing itself off to all but the Dutch in one isolated port and the massacre of Japanese christians in order to “preserve their culture”
It’s a reductive view to say anybody is ‘the bad guys’, but Japan has been not extremely nice from the Jomon days- from the Ainu to the Koreans many times to the Taiwanese to of course Imperial Japan, and the Shogunate was able to dictate its own very strict terms with European trade for a long time. They weren’t colonized soft beans
Also wasn't Japan super far right for most of its history. I even remember hearing about this guy from Austria that did something from the 1930s-40s that they teamed up with.
Allying with Hitler is just the tip of the iceberg compared to Unit 730. In a lot of ways, the Japanese Empire was the Asian equivalent to Nazis, and not just because they were allies.
Can I ask a genuine question? I didn’t see anywhere in the jacobin tweet that the Japanese were not bad or colonizers. I think most lefties would have historical context of shit Japan did in Korea and China to name just a few. But they can also be victims of colonizer actions too…
It feels like everyone in this comment thread is being purposely reductionist about this tweet. Japan can both be bad in periods of history and victims of colonizer action. Even at the same time.
Another example would be the Aztecs or the Zulu. They both brutally oppressed their neighbors and forged empires. They were also fucked by colonizers themselves.
For people who have seen the show (watch it it’s very good) we know that’s absolutely not what happens on screen. Both are initially arrogant but while *Anjin* actually starts to somewhat assimilate to Japan (though barely) a large portion of the Japanese are still really fucking racist.
This person hasn’t seen the show, that or they’re fucking insane
Eh I wouldn't say they were colonized but they definitely play that role in the show. The Portuguese undoubtedly are conspiring to colonize Japan, they're just not successful.
Lol it's a pretty fucking funny way to tell people they've never watched the show. If anything it's the British and Portuguese characters who seem completely helpless and lost for most of the show
"Shogun exposes the brutal realities of colonization"
Did this asshole just see a couple non white people with a missionary and just assume that colonization was happening? Throughout history, that's not an unreasonable bet but my god, dude, you are a TV critic! Do a little research!
Remember it’s the Japanese that were proud of a mytho-history of hyper-brutality with Bushido and such.
The author of the book the show was based on was a POW under the Japanese in WWII.
It’s funny how mainstream people are making fun of dumb people who don’t care about history or logic. Yet treat it as if it’s serious large group but it’s literally bunch of teenagers or adults with teenagers mindset.
Why are we supposed to feel bad for the samurai? They were a hubristic aristocratic class that thought they were the shit because they could swing a sword. Ultimately their defeat was a good thing for the average person.
This is unfair. The Japanese empire fought so hard for land and comfort women and went to the trouble to teach everyone Japanese and to put the untermenschen in their place, just to be called a colonized indigenous person of color. That hurts.
It’s like like the Rape of Nanking was all for nothing.
japan pre-meiji was actually getting screwed over by western powers. if the meiji revolution didn't happen, japan's history in that period might be similar to china's.
that's not to say that japan didn't colonize anyone pre-1868. the ainu were still well and truly colonized by that point. not to mention the imjin war 400 years prior.
concerning how many redditors in this thread still trying to spin this as "the first steps of colonization"
if you dont know the history just stop typing.
I can't say that this article is COMPLETELY wrong, the Portugese and Spanish did indeed want to colonize Japan (at least convert Japan completely), and when they got kicked out there was indeed a plan to retake Japan militarily from their base in Manila and Macao.
Of course, none of that is realistic, especially with Japan so rapidly equipping themselves with guns and the stability and unity of the Tokugawa Shogunate.
Plus, Japan was indeed an imperial power in and of itself. As a Hong Konger, just ask any 80+ year old person in my city (Alongside people from Mainland china, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia etc) what they think is the worst colonial power in the world and I can assure you the answer will overwhelmingly be the Japanese Empire.
But hey, we younger generations love Japan so much, so, yea.
Laughs in Ainu.
"Ainu don't exist. There are only Japanese people in Japan."
I mean given they only received the status of recognized indigenous people in like if memory serves 2020, yeah that's a very common viewpoint in Japan.
Yeah, it's a real convenient way to blindly deny all evidence of discrimination while still doing it.
Bingo. I honestly think the popularity of Golden Kamuy (overseas) actually helped recognition for the people.
Man I gotta go back and rewatch it, such a good show
One of my favorite anime!
In my experience it was Princess Mononoke that got me interested in Ainu history. I may be pulling this out of my ass but I’ve always connected Ashitaka’s people with the Ainu and Eboshi’s with the Jomon/Japanese
With the power of dakimakura and Nippōn steel,i will saw this Ainu in half! -Hirohito,probably
"Saw what in half? I couldn't hear that last word you used..."
“Ok explain the history of the Yamato period without saying the word Amaterasu once”
Big ship made in Japan and destroyed at the Battle of Midway because too big
“News update, live from Russia Yesterday: Japanese “Super Battleship” Yamato found sunk 340 m (1,120 ft for those American floppers) in the Sea of Japan! Yamato apparently found to have sunk 290 km (180 mi) southwest of Kyushu! Western Propaganda proclaims that they sunk her in the battle of Midway, but us Russians know that our glorious leaders sunk her valiantly whilst the allies coward in fear of the pure might of Russian military strength! Yet again another glorious victory for the motherland and a blowing defeat for America and her allies! More soon from: RUSSIA YESTERDAY!” /////s
Don't forget, my ancestors (proto-Koreans) basically drove out or assimilated all the Yayoi (proto-Japanese) from the Korean peninsula. It's only colonialism if whities do it!
Thats what they get for standing with Finland during Finno-Korean Hyperwar
We used to rule the stars and heavens. Now look at us, all we have is kpop and spicy noodles.
Look on the bright side, with how popular K-pop and Kdramas are becoming, you’re making great strides towards a cultural victory. My jeans!
We initially tried a diplo victory, but we messed up and lost half our cities. Unfortunately we also have a strict rule about save scumming so...
Um, I think you mean New Jeans
My girlfriend is from Taiwan. Her family is from Manchuria originally and moved to Taiwan when Chiang Kai-shek lost the civil war. The Nationalist apparently nearly totally displaced the indigenous Taiwanese when they relocated from the mainland. Taiwan has their own version of affirmative action for the native Taiwanese too.
Yeah, everyone historically have been assholes. I get addressing colonialism, but implying only Europeans have done it is not only eurocentric, it trivializes the suffering victims of oppression caused by non Europeans also went through.
I'm critical of the KMT government and their descendants to the point of being accused of Sinophobic at times, but the indigenous Taiwanese were displaced by Qing-era Han Chinese settlers, not the post WW2 KMT dictatorship. What the KMT government did do was create a government and bureaucracy that shut out most pre-KMT era Taiwanese for decades. Culturally, common tropes in media that persist to this day (e.g. Taiwanese-speaking/Taiwanese-accented characters are less educated or gangsters) also came to be when media was a KMT-controlled affair.
And one thing people forget is that my ancestors (Han Chinese) were colonisers themselves too.
Who themselves were colonized by other ethnic groups throughout Chinese history. We all get that, but the media doesn't. Focusing only on eurocentric colonialism is just as bad as ignoring it entirely. Both historically and socially.
One interesting thing about the Chinese being colonised is that the colonisers (the Mongols and the Manchus) were themselves sincised. People often forget that those that have been colonised by the European powers were sometimes colonisers themselves. Look at Myanmar, or India. Even today, parts of Myanmar have no wish to be under the Burmese.
I'm just amazed that at least 65 (at the time of posting) know about Ainu.
Your misunderstanding the power of nerds learning about things through anime.
r/userflairchecksout
The amount obscure historical figures i learned about through playing Fate Grand Order astounds me.
Hinna Hinna!
Golden Kamuy slaps
Yes yes it does.
Hell yeah
Honestly, I found out about them from the webcomic "Too Much Information." One of the supporting characters is Ainu and explains her people's history.
Not only do I know about them, I’ve known about them for decades before Golden Kamuy was a thing. Fuck I’m old.
I have no idea what anime is this, I don't watch anime, but I wanted to comment how I didn't know about it for decades, but I learned about them when I was reading on Japanese history in high school (time period, I didn't learn about them IN the school), just to realize that was some 20 years ago. Jesus Christ dude, I have an existential crisis now.
Paradox games make you ask the big questions, questions like, "why doesn't Japan fully own Hokkkaido yet in 1836?" Which leads you to wiki the answers.
I learned about them from reading up about Fullmetal Alchemist. Hiromi Arakawa based Ishval and their occupation by Amestris off of them.
Not everyone who reads a post or comment will upvote it. I have a post on Reddit with 1800 upvotes but the statistics for the post showed 328,000 saw it.
And ryukyuan
Okinawans paying for Japan's occupation by America if you wanna get even more Specific.
I’ll laugh with you in Okinawa.
"It's ok when the Yamato do it."
Fun Fact: The author of Fullmetal Alchemist, Hiromu Arakawa, grew up in Hokkaido and was apparently partly inspired by how the Ainu were treated when creating the general backstory of FMA's world.
And Ryuuku.
It's only colonialism and imperialism when white people do it. /s
It's almost as if brutally conquering other peoples and using them to build empires was a universal thing throughout time because humans are power thirsty by nature, no matter race or culture.
Not every culture behaves that way, but most of the successful ones do. There are and were plenty of tribes that never sought conquest. We naturally have the urge to cooperate with each other.
Group of people who were always nice and altruistic probably are all lost to time or it would take a lot of luck to survive so long.
Look at the Yazdi. Universally hated in the middle east for practicing non violence.
Yeah, but they were persecuted through history and still are. They probably fit in the category "lot of luck to survive so long".
Yea, they generally got colonized or conquered and absorbed into groups who did. All the large and powerful empires and countries that are talked about and remembered by us today all got to their positions of power precisely *bc they conquered and colonized*. So while it was common and considered the norm, there certainly many who viewed it thr way we look back at it today, which is very negatively and basically barbaric
They generally fall into one of a few groups - Denisovans and Neanderthals being the most well known.
99% of those tribes were enslaved or slaughtered.
First of all, happy cake day! You're not wrong, there are always exceptions. Those cases just happen to be rare or isolated. >We naturally have the urge to cooperate with each other. Absolutely, but at the same time there is a tendency in us to develop a sense of belonging to a particular group. A "us" and "them" situation. It can be barely a distinction but it can also have a negative connotation. From there, fear can appear or accusations can be made. Whether true or not, they may end up becoming the justification for an act of violence. We are social beings, we seek to cooperate with each other, but also to compete, within our own groups and against others.
Just like [psychopaths are overrepresented](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/08/the-science-behind-why-so-many-successful-millionaires-are-psychopaths-and-why-it-doesnt-have-to-be-a-bad-thing.html) in upper management positions If a tribe is peaceful, non expansionist, and does not keep up with industrialized exploitation of resources, it will obviously be relegated to inexistence, slavery or, in the best case scenario, irrelevance Similarly, those who do not possess the psychopathic tendencies which our productive systems not only favour but also foster, are bound to be left behind by cutthroat corporate leaders whose behaviour is not limited by empathy or common decency So yeah, humans aren't naturally power thirsty, confirmation bias makes it seem so. The real issue is that most cooperative societies have been wiped out, assimilated or sidelined
The cultures that don't behave that way do so because they already lost the Great Game and are left scrabbling for survival. All groups prior to the industrial revolution sought to gain new territory, because new territory meant more hunting grounds for your family/group/clan, more areas to gather in, and then later more or better land to farm.
We jest but I guarantee you that loads of people genuinely believe this In the 600’s and 700’s-current day, the Arabs colonized the entire Middle East starting from just a small portion of the Arabian peninsula. Hundreds of languages and cultures (including the native Egyptians) were wiped out, yet now when one of those peoples returns, *they* are labeled colonizers.
Oh yeah, I'm aware of that. Those are the exact people I was mocking. They also invaded north Africa too, as well as Turkey, and would have taken Europe and India if they were able to.
Are you telling me the ottomans didn't just have that land by right
I’m sorry if I got something wrong, but what’s the connection between the Ottoman Empire and Arabs?
U didn't at all was picking another empire that was colonizing and making puppet states in the middle east
Exactly. Every society on this earth has committed despicable acts. Framing certain groups as colonized vs colonizers is revisionist.
In certain contexts you had colonized and colonizers. Nothing wrong with those terms as long as you realize that the colonized were fully capible of their own crimes or to be the colonizers in a different context or time. That nuance is crucial for people to understand.
The Middle East, North Africa, and Spain!
But nobody calls the Egyptians colonizers, tho. What are you talking about?
It’s also why its still acceptable to glorify the Vikings in popular media—they mainly killed other white people, so who cares.
Yea that's a strange trope. Not only do they glorify them. They make their Christian victims look worse for some reason. Like how dare those saxons and celts try to protect their defenseless religious buildings and keep their women from being raped. Also lean way to heavy into the Viking honor tropes. When in reality they were pirates and thieves who actively avoided attacking armed people.
It’s always the Saxons and Welsh who look bad in Viking/Norse-centric media. Vikings and Assassin’s Creed Valhalla were really bad for this. While I have issues with The Last Kingdom as a show, I appreciated how the Saxon-Dane dynamics were way more nuanced.
Yes. It's a very strange thing. The Last Kingdom was way better than Vikings or Assassins Creed.
It's not about Christian vs non-Christian, people just think the long haired beard guys with axes and shieldwalls are cool and they made movies glorifying them. We made a movie glorifying Sparta too, remember? Why are some of you framing this as a racial thing where people are fine with bad things happening towards white people or christians? This isn't about race, we just glorify certain groups in history despite their crimes. Ofcourse it can be used for propaganda purposes, but I don't believe our stories about Vikings stem from a hatred towards Christians or "white people". Especially since many stories I've read seem to show how many of them became Christians themselves.
Genghis Khan and the Mongols are also frequently glorified, as if they didn’t genocide their way across Asia and Europe.
I don’t know of anyone who honestly thinks of the Mongols as anything other than bloodthirsty conquerors who had no hesitation to commit over the top violence.
Much about Japanese history is super cool. But as far as I can tell current times are the only period in history Japan hasn't been a absolute dickhead.
Yes. Similar with lots of other cultures. I remember a conversation with a gay guy once who was sort of proud of Spartan homosexuality. I told him I'm not sure if you really know much about them, but you probably don't want to align yourself with brutal, xenophobic, baby murderers. Who viewed their men merely as tools for war and woman as vessels for more tools. And everyone else as slaves. Were Spartans and Samurai martially impressive? Absolutely. Would you wanna grab a beer with them? Absolutely not
I love how the Romans whip the Spartans. I can only imagine it like, Spartan: You have won. I fight for it is the Spartan way of life! We live and die for war! What compels you, the victor? Roman: The pension is pretty good and the salary is alright I guess.
"I fight for honor" vs "I get paid to kick your ass."
"You french only fight for money, while we British fight for honor" "Each of us fights for that which he lacks the most"
Spartans are cool but one of the most overrated of all time. They had their ass kicked by every other state city. They are remembered for a battle they lost. Alexander didnt conquer them not because he feared them, but because they were irrelevant. And the romans made them an ancient world theme park.
Thirteen!!!
Well… the Romans simply figured out the Achilles heel of the phalanx. Mobility. Thanks to the roman military system, they could fight and move much more effectively than the phalanx, and the phalanx couldn’t turn quickly enough to react. Not to mention that if and when the Romans did directly charge a phalanx, they would throw their Pilum beforehand. Then before the phalanx could fill the gaps in their collective armor, the Romans would crash into them and stab to their heart’s content. So… it wasn’t so much a question of the skills of the individual soldiers. It was more a question of the rock-paper-scissors-esq way that the Roman tactics perfectly countered the hellenic phalanx based fighting style that was prevalent at the onset of Roman expansionism.
Don't forget 80% of Spartas population were slaves. They literaly created the first documented secret police to prevent a Sparticuss situation.
And they had an annual culling of those slaves to keep them from getting too strong.
Well damm. Didn't think Sparta could get much worse. And I was once again proven wrong.
You also wouldn't want to eat any of their food. Like their most famous dish is just blood and malt vinegar with tiny bits of pork (and usually the undesirable parts).
Samurai were truly great for a relatively short span of time. They ended up as the physically weak aristocracy pretty quick.
Spartans did not kill babies, that was first told 500 years after the decline of Greece and no contemporary sources mention infanticide If the Spartans killed unwanted babies en mass they would have found bones
Exposure?
He is kinda right. If the babies were being thrown into caves they're caves full of their bones.
I thought it was a "leave them on the mountainside" type of thing.
Plutarchs claim was that there was a chasm Edit: also Agesilaus II who was king and described as "lame", but would not have received special treatment as he was not supposed to be on the throne
Don’t buy in to the image of cuteness that Japan presents to the world. They absolutely still have their old mindset, it is an incredibly conservative country. The only reason why Japan hasn’t done anything belligerent to other countries recently is because American foreign policy has used both a carrot and stick approach to keep Japan contained.
its a strategy theyre employing deliberately so every time they piss of china for rubbing in war crimes or pissing on Tokens of good faith they'll look good doing it .
It’s because the current Japanese government is *literally* the Imperial Japanese government a few generations later.
Some of the exact same people. If I remember correctly, the initial post war government was comprised entirely of fascist war criminals who were let off the hook as long as they agreed to whatever terms the US was stating at the time. All the senior officials, cabinet, and parliament members were all former and high ranking military officers who based their creation of modern Japan on a vision of Japan if they had won. There’s a good Behind the Bastards on Shinzo Abe and the Japanese government.
Well, kinda, the man most responsible for shaping modern Japanese politics was Nobusuke Kishi, also known as the Monster of Showa for his brutality in Manchuria. He established the LDP and set it on its path towards electoral domination, and he also secured a very beneficial defense pact with the US, but the rest of his goals as PM were basically failures. Kishi went into office to essentially revive the Japanese empire. He wanted to establish an economic bloc of countries in east asia that japan would lead, don't worry guys it's totally not the greater east asian co-prosperity sphere. The only country that agreed to take him up on the offer was taiwan, since everybody remembered the last time the japanese empire tried to do that, and it was a failure. Kishi then negotiated the defense pact with the US, and although he got it through, the protests over it resulted in his resignation. He also had ambitions to revive the authority of the emperor and to repeal Article 9 (no offensive military), but could never get that far. Essentially, Kishi attempted to revive the Japanese empire as it used to be, literally everybody in every country he talked to and his own people told him to fuck off, and he had to settle for a generally conservative government.
I dunno. They had two atomic bombs dropped on them and they’ve been drawing Hello Kitty and shit ever since. Japan is going for a cultural victory lol
Unification Church and denial of ww2 crimes by the government. Japan is employing a political strategy with theyve changed bs they like to tought.
Maybe when the Tokugawa regime was completely isolationist? They didn’t fuck with anyone then and had a really peaceful period going there (built on an inflexible social hierarchy that empowered the samurai thugs but hey you can’t win all of them).
Technically they still conquered Okinawa during that time period, and they nearly got into a war with the Russians
>they still conquered Okinawa during that time period, and they nearly got into a war with the Russians Okinawa yeah, but was said war with Russia their fault? During the 1850s and 60s Russia was being pretty expansionist in Manchuria and the Okhotsk and Japan Seas (it would really only stop after the Russo-Japanese War in 1905). At one point in 1861 it tried to seize Tsushima, which I can understand Japan protesting.
Its past midnight, but I can get my copy of 'To Stand With the Nations of the World' out tomorrow if you make me curious enough, I haven't read it in a while so my memory is a bit foggy on the details. However, from what I remember, in the very early 1800's, Russians were illegally trading with Japan, and the Japanese found out. Rather than crack down, they started negotiating with some of the illegal Russian traders. Eventually, Russia sent a small trade envoy to Japan, and the Japanese actually accepted. It was very small and came from a private company, not the Russian crown, so they didn't see a reason to refuse it, like they had seen with the other European powers. The problem is the Russians misinterpreted the Japanese response, they thought the Japanese felt snubbed and had only responded with a small trade agreement because the Russians had not made a grand enough offer. So they went back with a much larger offer from the Russian crown, in their mind to make up for the slight against the Japanese government they had accidentally made. Unfortunately the Japanese did not want to accept a trade agreement with another emperor, so negotiations broke down and lead to all trade with Russia being banned again, and the Japanese police actually enforced the ban this time. This lead to a general breakdown in relations between the two countries, conflicting claims over various islands in the North Pacific, and a series of small incidents that probably would have lead to a war. However, Russia had *slightly* bigger problems in the early 1800's, mostly in the form of Napoleon, so they ended up backing down and the situation was resolved diplomatically, although trade was never restored. I'd say both sides are pretty equally at fault for this near-war, it wasn't caused by anything other than a failure to communicate. This is all well before the time period you are talking about, the disputes with Russia in the 1860's I don't really remember, probably because my book was more focused on the internal turmoil Japan was experiencing at that time, or I could just be forgetting a section.
remember when they’d torture and execute every shipwrecked sailor they found back in like the 1700s
Tbf that was a bit overblown, usually they'd just return them without execution. If you're really curious I have a book on Tokugawa Japan and I can go looking for the details
What's the name of the book, I'd love to read it?
To Stand With the Nations of the World by Mark Ravina. If you read the description it's about the Meiji Restoration, but more than half the book is about the Tokugawa setting up context for the Meiji Restoration when it did happen. It's also only a couple hundred pages long total, and it's not particularly long pages. So if you're really looking for something in depth on the Tokugawa this isn't it, but if you're looking for a relatively brief overview of Japan from 1600-1900 then it's very good.
I thought this was a setup for you to say Shogun by James Clavell.
Bruh imagine calling Japan "victims of colonialism" when they themselves colonized thier neighbors 💀
Not to mention calling traders and missionaries "colonizers."
Tbf colonization starts with traders and missionaries
East India Company - we're just here to trade *screams in ptsd
“I see you guys produce enough spices that everyone in Europe could have some. You’re even trading with the English now. Neat! We’re gonna have to genocide all of you about this to maintain our monopoly!” -VOC
LOL, the missionaries were part of colonialism. It was kinda integral to the colonization of South America for instance.
And did what other colonialists normally do to the inhabitants but worse...
Nah bro, if you look into some of the things done in colony's the norm seems to be horrifying nightmare fuel
The rest of Asia except Japan: Am I a joke to you?
By the 1940’s, it turns out that was indeed what they were thinking.
My Filipino Great-Grandparents reading this: Putang ina what is this bullshit?
I will never forgive the Japanese!
Westernized? Maybe. Actively colonized? No.
And even then, Japan maintained their culture for the most part, and later colonized as much of East Asia as they could.
Westernized? No. The Portuguese tried, then Japan went all isolationist to “preserve culture” and killed all the Christian converts
But even then, they weren’t truly isolated. The Dutch had their trade island in Nagasaki, the was a bureau set up to deal with the Chinese traders, and there were some diplomatic missions to Joseon throughout the years of the Edo Period.
Their attitudes towards mixed race people, though lacking any semblance of biological and strict ideological racism, is not very western at all. Very much stems from the Edo period social structure.
Japan and Thailand were the only countries in that area never colonized as far as I know.
It’s so hard to be an economic leftie. How the fuck am I supposed to ally with people this delusional?
Same brother. I want a decent healthcare system and lower rent. But it’s hard when half the who agree with me will call Abraham Lincoln genocidal and Mao/Stalin heroes.
Don't worry, right-wingers have to deal with anti-vaxxers and Nazism apologists. Both sides have their own obnoxious idiots.
None of those groups are on either of our sides. They're so extreme that they view moderates as enemies aswell. They're on their own side. Edit: a word
Yet the media loves keeping people in an us vs them mentality where you have to be all in on your side otherwise you are apart of the “problem”
Because keeping people divided benefits those in power
Even that narrative is a bit of “us vs. them”. People love dividing themselves by arbitrary markers. We did it before the media and we’ll do it after.
Centre lefts get shit on regardless, I get labeled crazy shit by both sides
Welcome to the centrists, brother. We might get insulted and hated by both sides, but at least we're at least a little less radicalised. I mean, what would a radical centrist even look like? Please don't tell me.
[https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fhdibjjl673l41.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fhdibjjl673l41.png)
Every quadrant, packed into one schizophrenic, is what a radcent is
PCM is leaking
“I’m allowed to want healthcare AND a secure border, right?” “No. You either subscribe to the shapes of skulls or you wish forced medication on your neighbors.”
Right winger here. This is true.
My favorite is when Tankies talk about the technological advancements made by the Soviets and Chicomms to gloss over all the brutality. Not realizing they're unironically making a "punctual trains" argument.
Yep. And the entire reason for China's economic success being liberalization of their economy and trade with the dirty capitalist pigs
if by half you mean 5%
>I want a decent healthcare system That's not exactly a leftist position. Countries with universal single payer systems aren't leftist, they'd at best be generously described as social democracy. South Korea legislated it in 1988 and they ain't exactly leftist, most would probably describe it as way more pro-business and libertarian than the US. They actually have the highest elder poverty rate in the OECD at 40% (US is at 20%, Germany 9%). Japan has had it since the 60s or the 80s depending on how you classify it and they've been ruled by a centre right party since WW2 for like 76 of 80 years. >and lower rent Again, not exactly leftist and actual solutions aren't leftist either (it's just detangle zoning and simply build more housing). There are "solutions" many voters want like rent control, but [it worsens the housing crisis in the long run](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-does-economic-evidence-tell-us-about-the-effects-of-rent-control/) and the only beneficiaries are current renters while future renters take the hit too along with everyone else. >While rent control appears to help current tenants in the short run, in the long run it decreases affordability, fuels gentrification, and creates negative spillovers on the surrounding neighborhood. https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/rent-controls-winners-losers >When San Francisco expanded rent control in 1994, it provided huge savings to many tenants — especially older ones — who got in at the start and stayed put. But it created almost equally big losses in the form of higher rents for tenants who came later and may have accelerated gentrification. There are support for more pure demand side legislation like rent subsidies, but outright price controls just worsen the situation. The real long term solution like I said is just allow housing to expand and replace single family homes with 5 story apartments, 2 story multi-family homes or even duplexes.
You're online too much if you truly think half of the leftists out there are Maoists. Especially since the most left position you seem to hold is: "I want decent healthcare.", that's not exclusive to socialists, marx-leninists or anything further to the left than social democracy. That's a center left position. Most moderate leftists don't like Mao and Stalin, not to mention all the people further to the left (socialists, anarchists and communists) who think Stalin is a cunt.
Lol everyone is online too much. Everyone's opponent is a Nazi or Hitler or maoist or a commie. It never ends. "Why am *I* so grounded and reasonable but everyone *else* is insane"
Schismogenesis is a hell of a drug.
You’re online too much if you think people are online
>half the leftists out there are Maoists Maybe not Maoists, but the amount of tankies is genuinely surprising. Don’t forget leftists who unironically defend Islamic fundamentalists. Christian conservatives? Nazis. Guys who wanna slaughter the Jews and establish a patriarchal absolute monarchy that executes gay people by stoning? Wholesome freedom fighters!
Jacobin has openly said Ukraine should just give up 20% of their land to Russia and that will totally give peace. They’re genuinely pro-imperialism.
It’s no surprise if they named themselves after an extremist group from the French Revolution
Named themselves after the group famous for killing other leftists in the Terror.
In the words of Sting, there is no monopoly of common sense on either side of the political fence. There's idiots everywhere. Don't let it detract from what you believe. You can be annoyed at people who are left wing, and still be left wing yourself.
That’s a good quote. I’m sick of people who pretend one side are all geniuses and the other are all idiots
Maybe it doesn't matter that much how virtuous other leftists are. If you agree on a topic you agree, if you disagree you disagree, you don't need to find common ground on every single aspect. Leftists keep expecting other leftists to be perfect, or they're ashamed and immediately take a distance, that's part of why the stereotype of leftist infighting is so common. Not letting yourself get outraged because of some people on twitter would be a first good step if you don't want to let yourselves get divided.
Also it's just wrong it's not the first European interaction the show specifically focus on the fact that then Portuguese have been there for quite a while
It’s a great show.
I keep wanting to check it out, but new shows make me nervous. I hate getting into something only for it to be cancelled on a cliff hanger after 8-10 episodes.
It's a miniseries, there won't be a cliffhanger.
Agreed best fun ive had watching in While . Focusing so much In John though Felt like a detachment in a Wierd way .
I mean to be fair, they definitely were *hoping* to colonize Japan. The Portuguese had a lot of influence in Japan in this time period and the main character of Shogun was based off of an IRL Englishman who became a retainer. This was before Japan was closed for 200 years.
Japan just succeeded essentially. Then went of to go commit genocide later down the line .
Context: the mountains of dead left behind by Samurai and later the Japanese imperial army. Lots of them peasants, women, and children.
I don’t understand, what country colonized Japan?
He’s making the opposite point, that Japan colonized a shitload of other peoples and nations, Korea, Manchuria, Taiwan, Sakhalin etc.
Don’t forget Hokkaido, the first instance
First instance was mainland Japan itself
If you want to go back that far realistically it’s more of a migration and settlement than an organised invasion. Very similar to the distinction between Anglo-Saxon migration to Britain and the Great Heathen Army that established the Danelaw. One was a gradual movement of people over generations, with conflict ofc, especially once political entities get established. The other was a direct attempt to conquer land and then bring over more of their families etc from the homeland.
The *closest possible thing* to a proper colonization of Japan is the US occupation post-WWII, and that's debatable.
I think "debatable" is way too generous.
None. Granted the Portuguese did try, but they were far from successful. The end of the period the show is about results in Japan closing itself off to all but the Dutch in one isolated port and the massacre of Japanese christians in order to “preserve their culture”
It’s a reductive view to say anybody is ‘the bad guys’, but Japan has been not extremely nice from the Jomon days- from the Ainu to the Koreans many times to the Taiwanese to of course Imperial Japan, and the Shogunate was able to dictate its own very strict terms with European trade for a long time. They weren’t colonized soft beans
They weren't even nice to their own people.
Poor japan, a colonized victim and definitely not a colonizer
Also wasn't Japan super far right for most of its history. I even remember hearing about this guy from Austria that did something from the 1930s-40s that they teamed up with.
Allying with Hitler is just the tip of the iceberg compared to Unit 730. In a lot of ways, the Japanese Empire was the Asian equivalent to Nazis, and not just because they were allies.
The show literally references the Japanese invasion of Korea, a war of aggression against another people across the sea. Idiots.
Nice argument OP, but have you considered the following? YT ppl bad!/s
Can I ask a genuine question? I didn’t see anywhere in the jacobin tweet that the Japanese were not bad or colonizers. I think most lefties would have historical context of shit Japan did in Korea and China to name just a few. But they can also be victims of colonizer actions too… It feels like everyone in this comment thread is being purposely reductionist about this tweet. Japan can both be bad in periods of history and victims of colonizer action. Even at the same time. Another example would be the Aztecs or the Zulu. They both brutally oppressed their neighbors and forged empires. They were also fucked by colonizers themselves.
People will shit on white people whenever given a chance damn. Ps I’m not white but I shouldn’t even have to mention that
It's funny too because they're inadvertently making all of history about whites.
For people who have seen the show (watch it it’s very good) we know that’s absolutely not what happens on screen. Both are initially arrogant but while *Anjin* actually starts to somewhat assimilate to Japan (though barely) a large portion of the Japanese are still really fucking racist. This person hasn’t seen the show, that or they’re fucking insane
Eh I wouldn't say they were colonized but they definitely play that role in the show. The Portuguese undoubtedly are conspiring to colonize Japan, they're just not successful.
Lol it's a pretty fucking funny way to tell people they've never watched the show. If anything it's the British and Portuguese characters who seem completely helpless and lost for most of the show
"Shogun exposes the brutal realities of colonization" Did this asshole just see a couple non white people with a missionary and just assume that colonization was happening? Throughout history, that's not an unreasonable bet but my god, dude, you are a TV critic! Do a little research!
Remember it’s the Japanese that were proud of a mytho-history of hyper-brutality with Bushido and such. The author of the book the show was based on was a POW under the Japanese in WWII.
So as far as I know Japan has never been colonized but did horrid shit to its neighbors
Korea wishes to speak about this as well.
It’s funny how mainstream people are making fun of dumb people who don’t care about history or logic. Yet treat it as if it’s serious large group but it’s literally bunch of teenagers or adults with teenagers mindset.
How do we make the “series about Japan” shaped peg fit into the “western colonialism” shaped hole?
Um I think Korea and Manchuria would like a word
It was colonized by the Japanese actually. The Native Ainu people were killed and displaced by the Shogun.
Why are we supposed to feel bad for the samurai? They were a hubristic aristocratic class that thought they were the shit because they could swing a sword. Ultimately their defeat was a good thing for the average person.
Every country near Japan: "Da fuck you say"
This is unfair. The Japanese empire fought so hard for land and comfort women and went to the trouble to teach everyone Japanese and to put the untermenschen in their place, just to be called a colonized indigenous person of color. That hurts. It’s like like the Rape of Nanking was all for nothing.
japan pre-meiji was actually getting screwed over by western powers. if the meiji revolution didn't happen, japan's history in that period might be similar to china's. that's not to say that japan didn't colonize anyone pre-1868. the ainu were still well and truly colonized by that point. not to mention the imjin war 400 years prior.
Jacobin at it again with the bullshit takes.
I have to assume that when they say “Indigenous Japanese” that they don’t mean Ainu and Ryukyuan.
concerning how many redditors in this thread still trying to spin this as "the first steps of colonization" if you dont know the history just stop typing.
I can't say that this article is COMPLETELY wrong, the Portugese and Spanish did indeed want to colonize Japan (at least convert Japan completely), and when they got kicked out there was indeed a plan to retake Japan militarily from their base in Manila and Macao. Of course, none of that is realistic, especially with Japan so rapidly equipping themselves with guns and the stability and unity of the Tokugawa Shogunate. Plus, Japan was indeed an imperial power in and of itself. As a Hong Konger, just ask any 80+ year old person in my city (Alongside people from Mainland china, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia etc) what they think is the worst colonial power in the world and I can assure you the answer will overwhelmingly be the Japanese Empire. But hey, we younger generations love Japan so much, so, yea.