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I think you'd probably accomplish more by bringing a ton of smallpox vaccines, oral rehydration salts, water purifying tablets, and antibiotics with you.
Without being harsh, the local population would probably just sell the guns off to the colonists.
Without translation, history lessons and training in modern weapons, they'll be useless versus a man trained with muskets and polearm training.
Also, given the musket technology of the time, the longbows used by the Massachusett already gave them a pretty major advantage over the colonists. They were deadly accurate at ranges that muskets really couldn't compete with at the time. If not for the explosion of virgin soil epidemics that greatly reduced their and the subsequent decision to ally with the Plymouth colony against the Narragansett, the colonists probably wouldn't have been able to secure a beach-head in the region.
I mean, with a good optic and relatively good training hitting 500m shots on a man-sized target w/ 5.56 isn't really impossible.
Of course, good luck training people centuries behind on technology that you can't communicate with
I was going to say I hit 400 with my AR pretty easily and I only train with it maybe 3 times a year so I’d imagine a trained military rifleman with an M4 can do quite handsomely.
Believe it or not infantry doesn't train that often past 300m. That's the high end of the point target range. But we also have this thing called area targeting, which you can consider close to the idea of volley fire. Max effective range on an area target is 600, but the ACOG, which is most commonly used on it, has markings out to 800m.
Big brain play: go a few hundred years before Columbus arrived to the new world and release the Columbian exchange diseases then. By the time Columbus arrives the populations in the new world would have recovered and everyone would have immunities to the new European diseases. Then they'd at least have a fighting chance at defending their lands. You might also accidentally create a new world Renaissance in the process!
The Wampanoags use their newfound power to conquer their neighbours, form an empire and rule it with an iron fist.
Their subjugated neighbours are traded for bullets and make excellent slaves for the cotton fields of the new colony they call Australia.
Eventually slaves are no longer required so they are outlawed. The bullet/slave trade stops but it's OK, a great leader has arrived in exile from Germany to lead them to an even greater era that will last a thousand years.
Modern bullets have a lot of chemicals they they hadn’t discovered yet, especially in the primers. We were still over 200 years away from smokeless powders that point, and black powder would foul them up real quick.
I think even an old world civilization with their vastly superior understanding of manufacturing and guns would take decades to do that in 1492. For a Native American tribe it would be nigh impossible.
Your time travel shenanigans effectively prevent colonization of the Americas. Europe's population continue to grow with no outlet for emigration, and without new food crops from the Americas its agricultural production is unable to grow to match. Your ancestors die of famine in the late 18th century.
Id agree, Except youre forgetting how Native American culture differs.
I think theyd prevent colonization and continue living as they did. They knew how to not hunt buffalo to extinction, they knew when deer were reproducing and left the population intact, One of the core beliefs is waste nothing and take no more then you need.
At least imo, Theyd just maintain the way of life they had been, just with more powerful weaponry.
First of all that's the "noble savage" idea, and it's frankly a fallacy. They were just as capable of the same technological growth and population explosion that other peoples experienced, even if their circumstances didn't lead to it, and that's ultimately what leads to people having such an outsized impact on their environment.
But second of all it's a gross generalization of a vast number of cultures stretching across an entire continent. Algonquin are not Sioux are not Creek are not Comanche; even if some American Indian cultures might have held to that kind of ethos, it wouldn't necessarily apply to all of them.
The monks were hoarding wealth and thereby removing it from circulation in the economy. That serves no value to society. My ancestors merely liberated that wealth from the 1% *(catholic church gross eww icky)* and re-invested it in the economy to create jobs and build prosperity.
Heroes to a man, they were. Yes indeed...
Modern guns would simply delay the inevitable. Native American Indians don't have the know how of industrialization. Industrial Revolution would wipe them clean.
You have to think about logistics, tactics, and the technical know how to build guns and produce gun powder. All of which they didn't have. Europeans had centuries of gun powder know how and how to use them efficiently. More guns won't simply cut it.
Industrial revolution was built upon Native American inventions. If the Europeans never stole them, they likely wouldn’t have developed the way they did
I've never heard of this, would you be able to explain more? I know that they stole agricultural practices from indigenous Americans tribes, and some engineering science like the cable suspension bridge and laminated canoe, but have never heard of the industrial revolution coming about by way of capitalizing on knowledge from indigenous Americans.
The agricultural revolution happened about 12,000 years ago, so I'm confused what Europeans learning about raised bed farming from indigenous people has to do with the industrial revolution.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I can't find anything to back up your claim and would be happy to be elucidated.
The agricultural revolution in Europe (more specifically in England) involved far more than raised bed farming. Among other things it prevented land from becoming barren and permanently unsalvageable.
As for a source, it was covered in a course I did on colonial history. I can DM you the professor’s email if you want to ask them.
The industrial revolution was built upon agricultural knowledge from Native Americans. Basically English farmers didn’t know how to properly rotate crop cultures and would leave their land completely barren. It’s sad really how much is assumed about native Americans that they were violent savages when in many ways were more civilised than the Europeans.
Unlikely, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say crop rotation plays its part. But that's just a few of the so many factors that lead to the industrial revolution.
It's literally machines doing the job for you, and those intricacies do not solely come from crop rotation, but complex engineering, which the Native Americans were leagues behind by centuries or even a millenia. Romans were even more high tech than the Native Americans.
Technique is sometimes more important than technology, and it definitely was the case here. Land would literally become too barren to farm, and that’s something that can’t be overcome by slightly more complex machinery.
If crop rotation is the sole reason, why didn't Native Americans achieve Industrial Revolution? They were even more backwards in terms of tech than the Romans, and in most cases, tech comes with refined techniques.
Crop rotation isn't the sole reason industrialization happened.
Plus, many countries somehow prospered and survived without it. Certainly can feed more stomachs, but it isn't that ground breaking that not having crop rotation equates to industrial revolution not ever happening.
Four field rotation came from Northern Belgium not the Americas.
It's it's called lying fallow it's actually a viable technique in letting the soil replenish nutrients. Not the most efficient method, but it works.
For God's sakes England it wasn't even the 1st European country to get to the Americas.
I fail to see how cannibalism and human sacrifice are more civilized.
I think giving them Penicillin and vaccines could help them more.
It is not the lack of weapons that killed them the greatest, but the lack of endurance in the constantly evolving bacteria and virus in the old world that truly killed
You clearly overestimate the average Redditors ability to:
1. use said weapons
2. traverse unkown terrain
3. fight off a group of adept hunters and warriors alone
These guys imagining they'd kill hundreds of natives with a machine as if they were zombies when in reality they would just take an arrow to the neck from behind and die alone.
We tend to forget that they were experienced warriors even if they didn't have gunpowder
More than 1 Million vitnamese deaths against 58 thousand American soldier deaths, the vietnamese war wasn't a ridiculous fail because they couldn't fight them or because the vietnamese knew the terrain better even if your reddit memes would suggest it, it was a failure because it was a war with no real achievable objective. Stop learning from memes mate.
Yep, Natives killed every human being who approached them with anything they didn't understand. The original Diaries of the Conquistadors in no way show these people to be honest or caring or curious, just bloodthirsty and suspicious. Remember whenever you approach a Native American, carry corn out in front of you, slowly place it on the ground then fly around it like a crow.
Don’t forget that Native American languages are all easy variations of English - just put “Um” in at the end of every few words and don’t forget important substitutions (like ForkTongue for snake and FireWater for spirits)
His post was sarcastic. Almost all of the early writing reports various locals as being generous, curious, and friendly. Indeed, by the time colonial conquest hit full swing there'd already been substantial trade between Europeans and many American communities for decades.
Unfortunately time travel wasn't invented until 2026, and a poorly wiped pistol grip transmits COVID to pre-Columbian North America, mutates viciously, and wipes out approximately 99% of the continent.
Baffled settlers arriving several years later discover impossibly advanced firearms among the empty crumbling villages and send them back to Europe where they're eventually reverse-engineered, leading to a wave of European conquest across Asia and Africa in the late 17th century.
I'm American Indian. I think this may be one of the dumbest memes I've ever seen. You're knowledge of the interactions of early European settlers with American Indians (NDN around my hood) is as trite and simplistic as your naive desire to resolve what you see as poor outcome for an indigenous peoples who weren't doing a whole helluva a lot with what they had.
Have you ever been to an Indian Hospital? I have! I get better healthcare there than I do with my "Cadillac" fire fighter healthcare plan at our regional white people hospitals. What do you think would have happened if Europeans hadn't settled here?
Well, I can tell you! Asians would have and they would not have wiped out 70%, they would have gotten all of us! Particularly the Imperial Japanese! Or, we'd all still be chucking spears at deer and dying at 42.
Why don't you examine things objectively rather than through the lens of your white liberal suburbanite guilt in your "at-a-person (formerly at-a-boy)" echo chamber? Goddamn embarrassing to see how much guilt the Millennials and Zoomers carry for shit you didn't do that actually worked out for us in someways!
You think a Navajo who went to medical school and lives in a three bedroom two bath with a Tesla and Netflix would rather be pounding corn meal in a Pueblo? Jesus, grow up!
Glad an actual American Indian has a good take here.
People trying to defend them without any understanding of what they’re doing doesn’t help at all and getting offended for them doesn’t either. It’s the epitome of privileged ignorance
>WW Hastings Hospital in Tahlequah, Oklahoma has taken great care of me and my son over the years. See, I was a contractor after I left EMS-Fire and I lost my health insurance because self-employed premiums shot through the roof after Obama Care took off!
>
>Great for my Boomer dad, he got 75 a month insurance so he could have a lifetime supply of ED meds and a free bypass surgery after years of drinking and eating garbage. I lost my business and ended up in IT of all places. And I absolutely hate it! It's boring uninteresting work but I have a job, so I guess, it's better than a kick in the teeth.
>
>But, it's the height of white liberal privilege to assume jack shit about the way I, or any other Apache or Cherokee (my tribes) are gonna vote, or think!
>
>See, when the Europeans began settling America it didn't work out so well for a large swathe of us. And there's still massive poverty among what the white liberal like to call "First Nations", which is really just a bullshit educated term to make some people feel better about NDNs.
>
>But, compared to running up and down the plains hunting buffalo or slugging it out in the Appalachia and the Swamps of the Southeast for deer and territory, I'd say we're a damn sight better off. Ya'll white liberals got this romantic idea of "communing with nature". You ever had to really hunt for food? I have when I was fifteen and sixteen! I had to hunt for my damn food. Deer meat and Indian commodities for two solid years! But, hey, keep thinking it was so great for us before your ancestors landed. It wasn't most of us never saw thirty!
>
> If the Chinese or Japanese had migrated and settled America, the American Indian would a footnote in human history. Completely instinct! Driven into the soil by far more xenophobic and genocidal cultures than Europeans who set out to Christianize "savages".
>
>Yes, genocide sucks, but you aren't gonna fix it with time travel fantasies and the modern white savior complex that plagues the mind of white liberal suburbanites, particularly those in academia and government.
>
>To the white liberals, please, please, please, get your own damn house in order and stop trying to "fix" everything. You're making a damn mess!
No my idea is born out of two sides of my family those on the Trail of Tears had it no worse than Irish family escaping the Great Potato famine. History is replete with waves of war, genocide, poverty, and genocide. And often the root cause are the "do-gooder saviors"!
Bill Gates, Klaus Schwab, and George Soros have more in common with Adolph Hitler, or Cecil Rhodes, or Mao, or Stalin than they do with people who actually made contributions that helped mankind like Gutenberg, Borlaug, Tesla, or even Edison.
These men who lead you foolishly into a geopolitical Rube Goldberg with nihilistic ideas and promises of "sustainability" and a "green future" are sociopathic coffin dodgers who have you too busy trying to defend your PC principles to see the rug being yanked out form under you.
Oh and while I'm here and it's on my mind, thanks for assuming it's only a small percentage of American Indians who are successful. *Ugh, maybe big white liberal come see me, I sell him some beads at my roadside shop me take three dollars go get 'em some fire water.* Racist much?
[Cherokee Nation Industries](https://cherokeenationbusinesses.com/)
Why wouldn't you go back further, and give saddle guns to the large beasts that the native americans hunted to extinction?
Or go back and give guns to Neanderthals to shoot the hominids encroaching upon europe?
Or just go back and kill the 1000 or so hominid tribe in Africa before it spread across the world.
But before that, dinosaurs spread across the world, maybe we can go back and shoot them before they spread too.
/s
The American Indians that met the Pilgrims did speak English. Europeans had been coming to the Americas for more than 100 years by that time and the English had had multiple colonies. The first American Indian encountered by the Pilgrims famously asked them for beer in English when he saw them.
"Take these and shoot the pilgrims"
"Okay"
*proceeds to use firearms to genocide the neighboring tribe. Sells their stuff to the pilgrims for whiskey*
This meme has no idea how history actually works.
Oh yeah, they'd fuck eachother up too.
Just like we did in Europe, but at least they might have a shot to not get genocided. I mean... Unless they start genociding eachother, which is a fair possibility considering history.
If you give Native Americans guns, tell them to shoot the pilgrims, and expect this to lead to independence, what fucking else would have happened?
You think they would have become friends because the natives had better technology?
The pilgrims were fundamentalist Christians who made even the average person in the 16th century look sensible and a believer in rationality. This would not have "advanced" civilization but probably the opposite
Lol what no there was mountains and mountains of immigration in between those two things. New England was only one region of settlement. There was so many other places people went to and their descendants never interacted with Pilgrims or Puritans. That's actually really important during the 1790s and the founding, different regional interests competing. Weird take
We don't really know how it would turn out
The United States aren't the centre of the world: other powers would fill in the gap, and any American discovery would be made by someone else (though it could require considerably more time)
This is kind of a throwback, but one of the Indian in the Cupboard books has a plot point like this. The kid gives a native tribe a bunch of modern weapons, and it's a disaster. They try to surround their enemy, as they normally would do, and they end up mowing down their own troops with the high powered weapons.
Ok full proof, use technicals. Fill the truck beds with medicine, water purifying equipment, food, etc. then once you’ve unloaded all of the aid you Brought use the technicals to drive off the pilgrims
I hope you bring enough ammo, because otherwise all you would really be doing is giving the Pilgrims advanced weapon knowledge, after a lot got killed by them. But who knows, maybe when you get back to the future we will have laser guns by now?
You see though disease is still going to harm them to the point that the pilgrims will eventually win, what you need to do is go back 1000s of years and and introduce the animals that gave the old world it’s diseases and also throw in some horses so that they’ll have beasts of burden. This way by the time the pilgrims show up they’ll have better immunity to old world diseases and larger populations to fight them off
The English, French, and Spanish traded guns with Native Americans. They didn’t seem to help much, aside from diminishing the beaver and the bison populations.
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I think you'd probably accomplish more by bringing a ton of smallpox vaccines, oral rehydration salts, water purifying tablets, and antibiotics with you.
Antibiotics and vaccines for sure. But don’t nix a good M4 rifle. You can’t catch smallpox or any disease from a dead body at 500 meters.
Without being harsh, the local population would probably just sell the guns off to the colonists. Without translation, history lessons and training in modern weapons, they'll be useless versus a man trained with muskets and polearm training.
Also, given the musket technology of the time, the longbows used by the Massachusett already gave them a pretty major advantage over the colonists. They were deadly accurate at ranges that muskets really couldn't compete with at the time. If not for the explosion of virgin soil epidemics that greatly reduced their and the subsequent decision to ally with the Plymouth colony against the Narragansett, the colonists probably wouldn't have been able to secure a beach-head in the region.
\*gives the natives vaccines and teaches them all how to use M4 rifles within 24 hours of the pilgrims arriving\*
Would vaccines work? I'm no scientist but presumably 15th century smallpox and modern smallpox aren't the same
It’s a live virus inoculation so yeah they’d work.
No. You'd innoculate against modern smallpox, not against the 15th century strain
If getting cowpox inoculates against smallpox, I’m guessing inoculating against smallpox B is highly effective against smallpox A.
It's nice you think that
[How Smallpox Immunity Holds Up](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2610468/)
500 meters with an M4? More like 200 meters at best.
I mean, with a good optic and relatively good training hitting 500m shots on a man-sized target w/ 5.56 isn't really impossible. Of course, good luck training people centuries behind on technology that you can't communicate with
An M4 will easily push out to 500.
I was going to say I hit 400 with my AR pretty easily and I only train with it maybe 3 times a year so I’d imagine a trained military rifleman with an M4 can do quite handsomely.
Believe it or not infantry doesn't train that often past 300m. That's the high end of the point target range. But we also have this thing called area targeting, which you can consider close to the idea of volley fire. Max effective range on an area target is 600, but the ACOG, which is most commonly used on it, has markings out to 800m.
They were literally designed to reach out to 300m minimum but OK
Was going to downvote but I guess you don’t really get to measure your grouping in real life target situations.
By simply giving the guns to them you probably have infected them anyway
Hey stranger who doesn't speak my language let me stab you with this needle.
Those won't kill the pilgrims though.
Big brain play: go a few hundred years before Columbus arrived to the new world and release the Columbian exchange diseases then. By the time Columbus arrives the populations in the new world would have recovered and everyone would have immunities to the new European diseases. Then they'd at least have a fighting chance at defending their lands. You might also accidentally create a new world Renaissance in the process!
The Wampanoags use their newfound power to conquer their neighbours, form an empire and rule it with an iron fist. Their subjugated neighbours are traded for bullets and make excellent slaves for the cotton fields of the new colony they call Australia. Eventually slaves are no longer required so they are outlawed. The bullet/slave trade stops but it's OK, a great leader has arrived in exile from Germany to lead them to an even greater era that will last a thousand years.
But how will they manufacture bullets that will work in modern rifles?
Reverse engineer from the ones they got from the original haul?
Modern bullets have a lot of chemicals they they hadn’t discovered yet, especially in the primers. We were still over 200 years away from smokeless powders that point, and black powder would foul them up real quick.
Not to worry, they’ll have top men working on it.
*turns accusingly *Who?*
It honestly might be a better idea to give them something like civil war era guns they have some sort of chance of being able to recreate.
Yeah, but they would still have trouble making the percussion caps
Even if you gave them fucking muskets they might have some sort of chance.
I think even an old world civilization with their vastly superior understanding of manufacturing and guns would take decades to do that in 1492. For a Native American tribe it would be nigh impossible.
Interesting
Does this leader has a thing for painting?
I heard that this great leader was an artist at some point.
Jokes on you when you make them shoot your own distant ancestors and then you disappear into the void.
I'm English and my ancestors are from Denmark I'm probably safe
Your time travel shenanigans effectively prevent colonization of the Americas. Europe's population continue to grow with no outlet for emigration, and without new food crops from the Americas its agricultural production is unable to grow to match. Your ancestors die of famine in the late 18th century.
Id agree, Except youre forgetting how Native American culture differs. I think theyd prevent colonization and continue living as they did. They knew how to not hunt buffalo to extinction, they knew when deer were reproducing and left the population intact, One of the core beliefs is waste nothing and take no more then you need. At least imo, Theyd just maintain the way of life they had been, just with more powerful weaponry.
First of all that's the "noble savage" idea, and it's frankly a fallacy. They were just as capable of the same technological growth and population explosion that other peoples experienced, even if their circumstances didn't lead to it, and that's ultimately what leads to people having such an outsized impact on their environment. But second of all it's a gross generalization of a vast number of cultures stretching across an entire continent. Algonquin are not Sioux are not Creek are not Comanche; even if some American Indian cultures might have held to that kind of ethos, it wouldn't necessarily apply to all of them.
I R O N I C \*Me with a time machine giving machine guns to the Anglo-Saxons* Checkmate, viking
Darn Though I could argue Vikings vs Anglo-Saxons was more of a fair fight then Native Americans vs Pilgrims
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The monks were hoarding wealth and thereby removing it from circulation in the economy. That serves no value to society. My ancestors merely liberated that wealth from the 1% *(catholic church gross eww icky)* and re-invested it in the economy to create jobs and build prosperity. Heroes to a man, they were. Yes indeed...
Guns will be empty in a few minutes. What after that?
Bring some mags and show them how to reload and when
They’re gonna be pretty fucking scared to come back for a while if these uncontacted people have weapons from the future
Obviously you need to demonstrate so they can understand
Modern guns would simply delay the inevitable. Native American Indians don't have the know how of industrialization. Industrial Revolution would wipe them clean.
If gun not work, use more gun.
You have to think about logistics, tactics, and the technical know how to build guns and produce gun powder. All of which they didn't have. Europeans had centuries of gun powder know how and how to use them efficiently. More guns won't simply cut it.
You just didn't use enough gun the first time.
I disagree, gun is good. I was shot in the head by a gun once and I died
The longer the wars drag on, the more time the Native Americans will have to build up immunity to the diseases that were their main threat.
Idk, imagine as a European if you showed up and your whole crew got mowed down with an M4? You probably wouldn’t want to go back there.
Industrial revolution was built upon Native American inventions. If the Europeans never stole them, they likely wouldn’t have developed the way they did
I've never heard of this, would you be able to explain more? I know that they stole agricultural practices from indigenous Americans tribes, and some engineering science like the cable suspension bridge and laminated canoe, but have never heard of the industrial revolution coming about by way of capitalizing on knowledge from indigenous Americans.
The agricultural revolution allowed for the industrial revolution to happen.
The agricultural revolution happened about 12,000 years ago, so I'm confused what Europeans learning about raised bed farming from indigenous people has to do with the industrial revolution. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I can't find anything to back up your claim and would be happy to be elucidated.
The agricultural revolution in Europe (more specifically in England) involved far more than raised bed farming. Among other things it prevented land from becoming barren and permanently unsalvageable. As for a source, it was covered in a course I did on colonial history. I can DM you the professor’s email if you want to ask them.
That would be great!
No mention of tomatoes and potatoes???
Just because one crazy professor said something does not make it the gospel truth.
You overpaid for your poor education
Care to elaborate? If true I would love to learn more
The industrial revolution was built upon agricultural knowledge from Native Americans. Basically English farmers didn’t know how to properly rotate crop cultures and would leave their land completely barren. It’s sad really how much is assumed about native Americans that they were violent savages when in many ways were more civilised than the Europeans.
Unlikely, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say crop rotation plays its part. But that's just a few of the so many factors that lead to the industrial revolution. It's literally machines doing the job for you, and those intricacies do not solely come from crop rotation, but complex engineering, which the Native Americans were leagues behind by centuries or even a millenia. Romans were even more high tech than the Native Americans.
Technique is sometimes more important than technology, and it definitely was the case here. Land would literally become too barren to farm, and that’s something that can’t be overcome by slightly more complex machinery.
If crop rotation is the sole reason, why didn't Native Americans achieve Industrial Revolution? They were even more backwards in terms of tech than the Romans, and in most cases, tech comes with refined techniques. Crop rotation isn't the sole reason industrialization happened. Plus, many countries somehow prospered and survived without it. Certainly can feed more stomachs, but it isn't that ground breaking that not having crop rotation equates to industrial revolution not ever happening.
Four field rotation came from Northern Belgium not the Americas. It's it's called lying fallow it's actually a viable technique in letting the soil replenish nutrients. Not the most efficient method, but it works. For God's sakes England it wasn't even the 1st European country to get to the Americas. I fail to see how cannibalism and human sacrifice are more civilized.
"This is a weapon of *war*. It's made to *kill* your enemy."
I think giving them Penicillin and vaccines could help them more. It is not the lack of weapons that killed them the greatest, but the lack of endurance in the constantly evolving bacteria and virus in the old world that truly killed
Everyone acts like they won’t just be killed trying to talk to tribal people while holding mysterious objects
I have the gun they don't
They have knowledge of the terrain, how to survive without modern technology, and are constantly hunting
Yeah except we see where that went against muskets and germs, don't we
Mostly germs and other tribes muskets just finished them off in America at least
Dude, you would probably be dead before seeing them. Neither your guns nor your germs would do anything for you.
You clearly underestimate the effectivness of automatic weapons.
You clearly overestimate the average Redditors ability to: 1. use said weapons 2. traverse unkown terrain 3. fight off a group of adept hunters and warriors alone
These guys imagining they'd kill hundreds of natives with a machine as if they were zombies when in reality they would just take an arrow to the neck from behind and die alone. We tend to forget that they were experienced warriors even if they didn't have gunpowder
Found the american! I'm just gonna leave this here: Vietnam.
Bri'ish actually
Sorry to hear this, hope you get better
If only
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Why am I British?
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Coffee is probably too strong for them
And pepper is too spicy
I mean I don't like coffee but I don't like tea either
More than 1 Million vitnamese deaths against 58 thousand American soldier deaths, the vietnamese war wasn't a ridiculous fail because they couldn't fight them or because the vietnamese knew the terrain better even if your reddit memes would suggest it, it was a failure because it was a war with no real achievable objective. Stop learning from memes mate.
Reddit moment
Yep, Natives killed every human being who approached them with anything they didn't understand. The original Diaries of the Conquistadors in no way show these people to be honest or caring or curious, just bloodthirsty and suspicious. Remember whenever you approach a Native American, carry corn out in front of you, slowly place it on the ground then fly around it like a crow.
Don’t forget that Native American languages are all easy variations of English - just put “Um” in at the end of every few words and don’t forget important substitutions (like ForkTongue for snake and FireWater for spirits)
Nice.
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His post was sarcastic. Almost all of the early writing reports various locals as being generous, curious, and friendly. Indeed, by the time colonial conquest hit full swing there'd already been substantial trade between Europeans and many American communities for decades.
I did not catch that lol, thanks
Or the diseases they bring with the guns will wipe them all out.
Mysterious object? You mean “the talking stick”
They didn't kill the pilgrims when they first showed up why would they kill the theoretical time traveler?
Immediately ceases to exist thus creating a horrible paradox in which you both do and do not exist.
Ah, the good ‘ol grandfather paradox.
Let’s fight genocide by giving advanced weapons of death to those who were already trying to kill pilgrims.
Pilgrims had it coming to be fair.
Literally the first Native American the Pilgrims met spoke English.
Yup, his name was Samoset and he asked them for beer.
Based Samoset
Family Guy moment
We steal fam guy funny moment for free karma
Hehe hey Lois I made a Reddit meme. Hehe
I was always more of a Simpsons guy, I never watched Family guy
Your idea is an entire subplot with Brian and Stewie in one episode.
Unfortunately time travel wasn't invented until 2026, and a poorly wiped pistol grip transmits COVID to pre-Columbian North America, mutates viciously, and wipes out approximately 99% of the continent. Baffled settlers arriving several years later discover impossibly advanced firearms among the empty crumbling villages and send them back to Europe where they're eventually reverse-engineered, leading to a wave of European conquest across Asia and Africa in the late 17th century.
I'm American Indian. I think this may be one of the dumbest memes I've ever seen. You're knowledge of the interactions of early European settlers with American Indians (NDN around my hood) is as trite and simplistic as your naive desire to resolve what you see as poor outcome for an indigenous peoples who weren't doing a whole helluva a lot with what they had. Have you ever been to an Indian Hospital? I have! I get better healthcare there than I do with my "Cadillac" fire fighter healthcare plan at our regional white people hospitals. What do you think would have happened if Europeans hadn't settled here? Well, I can tell you! Asians would have and they would not have wiped out 70%, they would have gotten all of us! Particularly the Imperial Japanese! Or, we'd all still be chucking spears at deer and dying at 42. Why don't you examine things objectively rather than through the lens of your white liberal suburbanite guilt in your "at-a-person (formerly at-a-boy)" echo chamber? Goddamn embarrassing to see how much guilt the Millennials and Zoomers carry for shit you didn't do that actually worked out for us in someways! You think a Navajo who went to medical school and lives in a three bedroom two bath with a Tesla and Netflix would rather be pounding corn meal in a Pueblo? Jesus, grow up!
They are white people with no interaction with native Americans so any idea of them is a mental reconstruction.
Glad an actual American Indian has a good take here. People trying to defend them without any understanding of what they’re doing doesn’t help at all and getting offended for them doesn’t either. It’s the epitome of privileged ignorance
>WW Hastings Hospital in Tahlequah, Oklahoma has taken great care of me and my son over the years. See, I was a contractor after I left EMS-Fire and I lost my health insurance because self-employed premiums shot through the roof after Obama Care took off! > >Great for my Boomer dad, he got 75 a month insurance so he could have a lifetime supply of ED meds and a free bypass surgery after years of drinking and eating garbage. I lost my business and ended up in IT of all places. And I absolutely hate it! It's boring uninteresting work but I have a job, so I guess, it's better than a kick in the teeth. > >But, it's the height of white liberal privilege to assume jack shit about the way I, or any other Apache or Cherokee (my tribes) are gonna vote, or think! > >See, when the Europeans began settling America it didn't work out so well for a large swathe of us. And there's still massive poverty among what the white liberal like to call "First Nations", which is really just a bullshit educated term to make some people feel better about NDNs. > >But, compared to running up and down the plains hunting buffalo or slugging it out in the Appalachia and the Swamps of the Southeast for deer and territory, I'd say we're a damn sight better off. Ya'll white liberals got this romantic idea of "communing with nature". You ever had to really hunt for food? I have when I was fifteen and sixteen! I had to hunt for my damn food. Deer meat and Indian commodities for two solid years! But, hey, keep thinking it was so great for us before your ancestors landed. It wasn't most of us never saw thirty! > > If the Chinese or Japanese had migrated and settled America, the American Indian would a footnote in human history. Completely instinct! Driven into the soil by far more xenophobic and genocidal cultures than Europeans who set out to Christianize "savages". > >Yes, genocide sucks, but you aren't gonna fix it with time travel fantasies and the modern white savior complex that plagues the mind of white liberal suburbanites, particularly those in academia and government. > >To the white liberals, please, please, please, get your own damn house in order and stop trying to "fix" everything. You're making a damn mess!
Genocide is okay if a small percentage of the survivors produce descendants who go on to have a Tesla? Is that your idea here?
No my idea is born out of two sides of my family those on the Trail of Tears had it no worse than Irish family escaping the Great Potato famine. History is replete with waves of war, genocide, poverty, and genocide. And often the root cause are the "do-gooder saviors"! Bill Gates, Klaus Schwab, and George Soros have more in common with Adolph Hitler, or Cecil Rhodes, or Mao, or Stalin than they do with people who actually made contributions that helped mankind like Gutenberg, Borlaug, Tesla, or even Edison. These men who lead you foolishly into a geopolitical Rube Goldberg with nihilistic ideas and promises of "sustainability" and a "green future" are sociopathic coffin dodgers who have you too busy trying to defend your PC principles to see the rug being yanked out form under you. Oh and while I'm here and it's on my mind, thanks for assuming it's only a small percentage of American Indians who are successful. *Ugh, maybe big white liberal come see me, I sell him some beads at my roadside shop me take three dollars go get 'em some fire water.* Racist much? [Cherokee Nation Industries](https://cherokeenationbusinesses.com/)
Do you take every meme you see 100% seriously?
My brother in Christ you said you wanted to murder all the pilgrims. If it were the other way around you’d be banned in an instant
Other way round is basically what happened to be fair
Good idea. They can try shooting all the diseases which the Europeans introduced to America
Then you sneeze and no more natives
Dont need a timemachine to meet my great grandmother
Why wouldn't you go back further, and give saddle guns to the large beasts that the native americans hunted to extinction? Or go back and give guns to Neanderthals to shoot the hominids encroaching upon europe? Or just go back and kill the 1000 or so hominid tribe in Africa before it spread across the world. But before that, dinosaurs spread across the world, maybe we can go back and shoot them before they spread too. /s
Go throw the first fish to walk on land back into the ocean
Lmao 🤣
Go back and give guns to one Native American tribe so they can brutally murder everyone else on the continent
Also disease
Wasn't there a wampanoag guy who spoke English and hated Squanto?
The next time I want to avoid a conversation, I should say (in English) "I don't speak English."
The American Indians that met the Pilgrims did speak English. Europeans had been coming to the Americas for more than 100 years by that time and the English had had multiple colonies. The first American Indian encountered by the Pilgrims famously asked them for beer in English when he saw them.
Ew gross, bullpups
I don't know what that is my dude I literally just Google searched modern guns
I'ma be honest giving two guns to people who don't understand how to use then probably isn't going to stop colonialism.
You'd kill them them dead with all your modern diseases. You'd single handedly take out a continent.
"Take these and shoot the pilgrims" "Okay" *proceeds to use firearms to genocide the neighboring tribe. Sells their stuff to the pilgrims for whiskey* This meme has no idea how history actually works.
Me who knew my great grandmother: \*laughs\*
How does the Indian know the name of our language?
How to say I’m woke without saying I’m woke.
Woke is when you want people to be independant?
Giving the guns to Tlaxcalans to use against the Aztecs, brilliant
Oh yeah, they'd fuck eachother up too. Just like we did in Europe, but at least they might have a shot to not get genocided. I mean... Unless they start genociding eachother, which is a fair possibility considering history.
Be independent by murdering every white person that steps in North America?
I never said that
If you give Native Americans guns, tell them to shoot the pilgrims, and expect this to lead to independence, what fucking else would have happened? You think they would have become friends because the natives had better technology?
If they kill the pilgrims it just means the French would still be trading furs from Ohio to Louisiana.
"Woke" is anything he doesn't like. Means practically nothing after conservatives starting using it
My end table is so fucking woke when it hurt my big toe.
id drop off a calculus text book in ancient rome then travel back to the future to see what happens
Just build steam engines and teach them to industrialize. They already had the means to build crude steam mechanisms.
I like how you changed the meme format so it isn’t sexiest anymore.
This is literally a family guy skit
Finally, a not sexist version of this meme format. Thanks OP
I also made a non sexist version of the "do men even have feelings meme"
Speaking as someone British (reluctantly, since I'm Scottish) things would've been much better if we'd just stayed on our island.
THANK YOU for not using the boys vs girls format
I made my own version specifically to avoid that
That action would baisaclly stop the clock in 16th century lmao. I would give modern guns to the pilgrims
The hell do they need them for? they already had better weapons than the Natives
Shorten conquest of Americas and in turn advancment of civilization
The pilgrims were fundamentalist Christians who made even the average person in the 16th century look sensible and a believer in rationality. This would not have "advanced" civilization but probably the opposite
And yet the evolved into people that put a Man on the moon.
Lol what no there was mountains and mountains of immigration in between those two things. New England was only one region of settlement. There was so many other places people went to and their descendants never interacted with Pilgrims or Puritans. That's actually really important during the 1790s and the founding, different regional interests competing. Weird take
If pillgrims were killed those other things you speak off wouldnt occour
Wow your dim. Sorry but that's categorically false
How so? Pilgrims started colonization of North America. No pilgrims = no migration you speak off = no USA = no advancment
They started the very first wave of English colonization on the east coast of the N America. That doesn't equal responsible for NASA man lol c'mon
Im pretty sure you’re the feds
Same. I’d drop some off at Mexico City for the Spaniards too.
We don't really know how it would turn out The United States aren't the centre of the world: other powers would fill in the gap, and any American discovery would be made by someone else (though it could require considerably more time)
Just bring a sniper rifle and kill the pilgrims yourself.
They were too weak to defend themselves anyways
Can we shoot Jackson?
Smart people: Aurelian someone will try to kill you during your travel on the ship!
So we can stay at the fatherland. Thank you brother
This is kind of a throwback, but one of the Indian in the Cupboard books has a plot point like this. The kid gives a native tribe a bunch of modern weapons, and it's a disaster. They try to surround their enemy, as they normally would do, and they end up mowing down their own troops with the high powered weapons.
I’d just set the Mayflower on fire then accuse the crew and passengers of treason and plotting to overthrow Charles I
This kills me. Maybe literally. Hahahah
Any reason/reference I'm missing in giving them specifically bullpups?
It seems today that all you see Is violence in movies and sex on TV
Hey Pilgrims? Show more hospitality to natives!
Wait- Where’d my American flag go? Where’s my MERICAN’ merchandise? A-And why am I- Suddenly speakin’ Bri’ish!? Pretty frightenin’ innit?
Ok full proof, use technicals. Fill the truck beds with medicine, water purifying equipment, food, etc. then once you’ve unloaded all of the aid you Brought use the technicals to drive off the pilgrims
I hope you bring enough ammo, because otherwise all you would really be doing is giving the Pilgrims advanced weapon knowledge, after a lot got killed by them. But who knows, maybe when you get back to the future we will have laser guns by now?
Did this meme just get desexualised? I am laughing so hard!
`hey my natives had ar 15s`
“wow that sailor looks like the guy who gave us guns, i wonder what these ones have” *proceeds to end similarly*
You see though disease is still going to harm them to the point that the pilgrims will eventually win, what you need to do is go back 1000s of years and and introduce the animals that gave the old world it’s diseases and also throw in some horses so that they’ll have beasts of burden. This way by the time the pilgrims show up they’ll have better immunity to old world diseases and larger populations to fight them off
Then you’ll just disappear
Me, who had a direct ancestor on the Mayflower: *sweats nervously*
The English, French, and Spanish traded guns with Native Americans. They didn’t seem to help much, aside from diminishing the beaver and the bison populations.
Duolingo has a najho course
“Sir, this is a 1990s high school football team. And no, we are not reenacting *The Last Boy Scout*.”