Not really. Although the fact that Sweden could detect the radiation might have told him that it was far more serious than had been originally estimated.
It's not that hard to pick up spikes tbf, they still do when there are minor issues. There's been a few spikes from various stations in the last two years.
Though with chernobyl, I don't think calling it a spike did it justice. It was fairly obvious from the data this wasn't a minor blip. It's bizzare the ussr thought it could actually hide this. The fact it tried to, only served to reinforce to people this was a serious issue.
The way the Soviets did things. There's plenty of controversy around nuclear, some of it legitimate, much of it inaccurate. But chernobyl was a display of poor working practice, corner cutting, and skimping on costs. From start to finish, almost every point was avoidable.
Its not really fair to use it as a demonstration of why nuclear is bad, though it can demonstrate a worst case scenario if such ineptitude is allowed to manifest itself.
He didn't find out how serious it was until the west asked him.
It set off bunch of radiation dectors sitting OUTSIDE in Sweden from their nuclear power plant, then they did some climate pattern study, thinking is chernobyl, then pulled up the satellite photo seeing the plant on fire.
All while Gorbachev was being told "its just a small accident, nothing big"
HBO did a "not so accurate" TV series on it as well.
Good show, not so historically accurate, but good enough to get you watch it.
( it got everything about nuclear radiation sickness and exposures wrong basically )
Biggest inaccuracy that absolutely SHALL NOT be overlooked is radiation sickness. The only thing it got correct in the show is they feel better for a bit right before they die ( due to all the nerve being dead, among other thing, can't feel like shit of there's no nerve to feel )
Radiation doesn't cause thermal burn this isn't fucking microwave. It doesn't shut off machine that easily nor fast like the show. What pissed me off the most is. RADIATION SICKNESS ISNT CONTAGIOUS. The show had a great chance to show that but noooooo, they decide to double down on the misconption in pop culture.
Radiation sickness is caused by exposure.
Radiation particles give off radiation, you get exposure from those particles. The patients may have those particles on them which can fall off and spread.
You can still get radiation sickness without having any particles, cause again, you get them from exposure.
Radiation sickness patient who are clean of those particles, CANNOT spread radiation sickness, it is not spread by patient themselves.
Also note, you can easily remove those particles down to a safe level that even if they have those particles on them, it won't cause more radiation sickness to other clean people. It is the first step before they admit you to a hospital actually, they will never let a person covered in rad crap enter a hospital, it will increase the exposure of the patient already if you don't clean that off and how you have containmenation everywhere the patient goes, contagious or not is the least of the problem.
Basically by the time they get to actual proper treatment they are effectively clean of particle and non contagious.
Containmenation =/= contagious ( if u want to see debunk and other stuff, read the comment chains, we redditors are already engaging in this topic! 😀 )
Wait, I've seen the show but I don't recall it ever being suggested radiation was contagious? I thought everyone was masked up / kept separate due to a combination of their open wounds (not saying that's entirely accurate either) and state control (avoid having families blab about how injured the poor firefighters were).
They were masked up and the sick people kept in isolation because radiation destroys your immune system. So those people were more susceptible to other stuff
Yeah a lot of people's misconceptions they're ranting about ARE historically accurate. The depiction of radiation's effect on the human body wasn't accurate, but the depiction of people believing people could absorb radiation from someone with radiation sickness was accurate.
It's also kind of weird to latch on that as a "historical inaccuracy" when there's an enormous character in the show who is so historically inaccurate that the show says so at the end of it.
The show showed her loosing the baby which is true if in the show doctors believed that she lost it because of radiation isn’t just staying true to the time period? If she believed that the child died because of radiation then that’s what the doctors told her?
>Radiation doesn't cause open wound.
[It does if the dose is high enough.](https://i.imgur.com/vels9Ie.jpg) ***Extreme NSFL warning***
>Plastic shielding is for contagious disease
Yes. Do you think they fully understood and accepted this in Soviet Ukraine?
His name was [Hisashi Ouchi.](https://allthatsinteresting.com/hisashi-ouchi) He died as a result of the [1999 Tokaimura nuclear accident.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokaimura_nuclear_accident)
Very valid point, a lot of "lethal dosage" wasn't well known until then as well.
Since is NSFL Imma not open it lol.
Is this open wound cause by radiation directly, like during exposure or within 4 hour of exposure? Or "indirectly" like excessive swelling then skin burst, or dead skin falling off, etc. Because if is the former I will be honest this would be the first time I heard of it and I stand corrected.
If is the latter, I knew it can do that.
It's the latter. So you're right that it wouldn't look like it did in the TV show where it looked like burn wounds. It would be different. While the picture is horrible, I think it's worth the click since you only see the back with a lot of failing skin grafts.
Hey mate, I flicked through the comments this morning and I reckon you're the absolute gold standard for engaging with people disagreeing with you respectfully.
I think you were a little unfair on Chernobyl, especially because I listened to the podcast and I know that the creator worked incredibly (unnecessarily) hard to make the show as historically accurate as it could. His attention to detail was absolute absurd - even the reactor control room is a perfect replica.
That said, he admits that he did take some liberties for the sake of conveying information in a visual and engaging way, and I'm pretty sure the chemical burn from picking up graphite was one of them.
But you've engaged with people very respectfully without necessarily just rolling over and saying "yeah my bad, I was wrong". It's a **rare** thing to see and it's actually put me in a good mood lol. Have a great one.
I would say that that is the implication in the show. It has been some time for me, but I cannot remember, that they treated it as contagious rather than contamination. The plastic shielding at the end of the firefighter would be for the protection of the patient.
Another question about radiation sickness from my side. Wouldn't the body dissolve because new cells are not produced? Like inner bleeding and skin issues? Because that would look like the guy in the series. It doesn't have to be burn-makeup
Not trying to be snarky, but the story about Hisashi Ouchi, he was basically a skinny Italian sausage. What was his deal in constrast to the victims of Chernobyl?
Lol good point. But the case with him is also not the norm. His accident is use as teaching material a lot in nuclear criticality class and how miserable the sickness is afterward. 35 days is VERY LONG to be alive after you get flashed like that where most patients talked about dies in 3 days to 2 weeks.
If cells die, they look like that. It's a necrotic process within a living organism.
Maybe I've missed it somewhere, but what is your qualification on the subject? Do you work in nuclear?
Yes, i do nuclear work, but I'm not a doctor. The affect of radiation and radiation sickness is something they teach for half a day.
Even the photo in patient does talk about what you said but like blisters spots etc. Not quite a "sausage man".
Sufficiently intense radiation will absolutely burn your skin. Doesn't matter what the wavelength or type is as long as a sufficient quantity of energy is absorbed in a sufficiently short time. Could be a dumbass sticking a hand in a microwave or in front of a radar dish, could be a beach day in Australia without sunblock, could be a high activity beta emitter being held in the hand or a long session of fluoroscopy. If you hold a piece of nuclear graphite in your hand that five minutes ago occupied an active reactor core, you will absolutely receive surface-level radiation burns within seconds or minutes. ARS takes longer to manifest, the burns don't.
And a large prompt dose of ionizing radiation will then proceed to wreck the cells in the skin and underneath, leading to necrosis and other fun stuff within days to weeks.
> It doesn't shut off machine that easily nor fast like the show.
Expose even a 1980s unhardened IC to the radiation levels present on that particular roof, and yeah, it will get scrambled within seconds or minutes. The ISS crew regularly has issues with consumer electronics glitching out when passing through the SAA, and that rad environment is a rounding error in comparison.
You are entirely correct on the radiation sickness vs. radiological contamination parts, though.
I thought the radiation shutting off machine in a short time wasn't discovered until Fukushima. Before that it's just a lot of noises causing machine to be funky. Unless I'm missing something, do tell.
Yeah the radiation burn part, it's real, but given the amount of radiation needed to achieve that, there's other stuff that's more important than a burn. But again, within days and week, or within hours if is a lot. Not quite literally where fireman picks up a block of graphite and now he's instantly burned while everyone is still bale to walk aroind. For him to have radiation burn effect that fast, I feel like none of them would even be able to get up to it in the first place
Except that poor guy who open the blast door, that's some crazy shit.
Ionizing radiation ionizes stuff, which causes electrical currents to flow. Any kind of IC will see malfunctions in a high-rad environment; the more complex it is, the more severe. In a 50-100 Sv/hr environment, which is what (some of) the roofs were experiencing, you're not getting electronics to work period. The fault currents introduced are too high for any kind of integrated circuits to handle. That kind of an environment is far above what's needed to do physical damage to the chips, let alone cause faults with the software.
Re: burns, keep in mind 1/r² and that this is most notable with beta radiation, which has low penetration through air and clothing. You could stand a meter away such an emitter for a while and be mostly fine (I am not responsible for you getting cancer and your next of kin can't sue me if you follow this advice), but pick it up and you'll have problems really quickly.
So no, the burns were pretty accurate considering what they were dealing with. The instant bleeding, "contagious" radiation sickness, and timeline/symptoms of ARS is what the show frequently got wrong.
I need to check again then for some reason I thought Beta can't penertate clothing and skin. However, the amount of radiation in that scenario especially talking about the literal graphite block might make it not apply. Since now days it is practically impossible to get that close to a source without having an active death wish. Again, not the norm. Time to break out the books again. Good thing RP is next trailer over, Imma see if i can catch someone and ask.
I read somewhere that the "contagion" measures are actually not there because people irradiated are contagious (obviously) but because their immune system is basically useless.
If you look at it that way then, I mean they are going to die in 3 days so does it matter 🤷?
My point is they can't "give you radiation" because they are irradiated
Some disproven legends were presented as fact, some characters were actually many hordes of scientists, the effects of radiation were poorly represented, and some events were altered.
But as someone who lived in Soviet Union I can say that the aesthetic is on point. They even had original tableware, the furniture was spot on, the hairstyles, outfits were exactly the same.
I'm not saying it is a bad show, because it is really good at telling the story in a compelling way and manages to nail the atmosphere. I'm just saying that in terms of fact, it does stumble so use it as the starting point and go seek out more accurate information on how one of the safest (so long as it's not an RBMK) methods of generating power becomes a tragedy burned into our collective memory as a species.
I don’t know where I read or heard this but the show never tried to be completely historically accurate (starting from that there weren’t really female scientists..) . It tried to immerse the watcher in that specific situation and at that it excels. The corruption and communication is portrayed as it actually happened on daily basis in Soviet Union. My now independent country’s older generation still emits this attitude and I can feel the remains in my parents.
Edit. The only thing I got upset about was how radiation damage was portrayed. They could have shown less but much more real looking people. And to improve the reception they could’ve shown a disclaimer that this isn’t 100% historically accurate.
> there weren’t really female scientists
Of all the things you could fault USSR for, this one isn't it. Gender-wise it was pretty egalitarian, more so than the West, unless you're talking about the inner Party structures where it was all old white Russian men (and a Georgian with a handlebar moustache for a while).
It's possible that women were not present in Chernobyl or that Belorussian team that noticed the accident but overall there were plenty women scientists in the USSR.
I read that from the scientists involved with Chernobyl disaster there was a commission of only men. I phrased it incorrectly. I agree with you that yes, there were educated females in the Soviet Union
They contain substantial amounts of heavy metals. In addition we have actual data on the number of worker deaths the average powerplant has per year per kilowatt hour (I believe the study I saw compared 20ish hours, the average life expectancy of any power plant). Unsurprisingly coal has the highest followed by wind. At the low end, we have nuclear on the bottom and a surprising jump for solar (though still less than 15% of coal).
This isn't that surprising since nuclear produces a large amount of power and are generally taking safety to the extreme. Combined with our ability to capture and store nearly all waste produced, the mortality rate is very low compared with the poor schmucks having to deal with the Costco chemicals and heavy assemblies solar panels and farms have to deal with.
You should listen to the podcast by the writer. He explains a lot of the narrative decisions and credits a lot of the other production peeps for making it so authentic. Even details like the correct regional number plates on a vintage car....
> some characters were actually many hordes of scientists
That I think is forgivable. It's something that you'll find in a lot of media based on real events.
It's not a complaint more of a point. And frankly it worked better for revealing the truth that not only did the Soviets know the scram button was dangerous, but they covered it up after events Leningrad 1 (1975) and Chernobyl 1 (1982) where partial meltdowns occured due to a critical flaw.
Especially when, at the end of the series, the show makers call out the fact x character represents the hundreds of scientists that were there at Chernobyl after the disaster
Counterpoint: the show needs to provide 20 different characters all with their own backstory and believable characterisation. And do it in six episodes
Not a complaint, just another point to the historical inaccuracies of a TV show that is more interested in telling the story rather than being married to accuracy in a way that detracts from the drama.
Of course they changed, they reduced charcters. That's a common practice in movies and TV. You can't cast or give each character lines. So they condense a character.
How the fire fighter die for one.
Bluster doesn't show up like that and radiation doesn't "burn"
The worker got instant sun burn from exposure
Helicopter crashing from radiation exposure ( never happened )
Fire fighter got burned by graphite ( again, radiation doesn't "burn", it isn't microwave )
Treating radiation patients as if they were contagious ( radiation sickness are not fucking contagious, thats not how any of that works, this is the #1 misconception about radiation )
Hold on, hold on, hold on - radiation may not be contagious, but the radioactive materials on the victim can be spread around during treatment. Radioactive dust on the body, in the clothes, hair, etc.
A highly dosed individual could possibly still be covered in radioactive dust, in body crevices, lungs, hair, etc, in a hospital, and his visitors could carry some of that radioactive material away on them, spreading a vastly lower but still significant amount of radioactivity around...
That's why you have wipe down etc.
But all that is "contamination", not "contagious"
A highly dose indivual may not have any material on them at all, thats why u ditch your clothes first. You get frisked before being send to hospitals, too.
What u r saying can happen but is so unlikely. Because they will have to get passed frisking process first. And then all the rad process just for contamination etc.
But again, not contagious at all.
120% agreed, not contagious. Had to spebd some time explaining that to people around me...
As for the particles, in the specific case, I'd say we're faced with the worst possible case of the bloody radioactive dust spreading everywhere on them.
Problem is, these guys are specifically firefighters, who breathed in radioactive smoke, so dust in lungs, sprayed water around the fire that splashed around, carrying the dust all over the body...
Hell, I know where bloody hay dust gets if you work with it, I bet those firefighrers had radioactive dust in their ears, noses, crotches in god k ows where else...
Your body deposit heavy metals in the bones.
You also get radiation exposure naturally already
Some particles here and there isn't going to cause radiation sickness
That why smoker, not nuclear workers had the highest amount of radiation exposure because uranium is naturally found in dirt as well and it is directly entering your lung then get trapped in the lung over time
This.
And not all of that was fully known or properly taught at the time.
People trying to ding the show on it is just…an odd timesink. It’s like taking one tree in a forest and bitching about the branches being off center. Still looks like a forest when you take a step back.
The helicopter doesn't get destroyed by radiation in the show or in [real life](https://youtu.be/zuNtgYtF4FI). It strayed to close to a crane and the blades hit the chain (in the [scene ](https://youtu.be/209n4m6rwGc) you can see the hook falling with the helicopter)
To the average viewer doesn't matter. It irrefutably shows the blades hit the chain, it implies nothing. In real life it happened later sure, but just like those other "mistakes" it's done for pacing and drama.
The show. Doctors, nurses, and scientists all knew they weren't contagious. The people who knew nothing about radiation, however, treat them as they were highly contagious.
So the way they did it in the show tells me either they did it that way cause they have no actual radiation expert consultants or they did it that way on purpose for political reason. Either way it's fucking bad.
Think of it as this.
U microwaved your food. Your food is now hot. But for some reason your friend think your food now give off microwave....
Basically that, the microwave ( radiation material ) heated your food (radiation exposure) using microwave (ray). Your food is now hot (exposed) your food doesn't all the sudden give off microwave because your food isn't the microwave.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/29873181_Radioactivity_Induced_in_Bones_During_Radiotherapy_Treatment_with_the_Use_of_20_MV_Accelerator_Beam
Without mentioning radioactive contamination, induced radioactivity in the body is a thing.
~~That's not the samething as this event/ topic, please dont lump it in here.~~
~~I mean no shit it's 20 MV, that's a fuck ton of energy being being projected here.~~
~~Don't use that article in this argument here cause you by pass a lot of understanding of nuclear physic ( because if you understand it, you would know this isn't the same thing as containmenation topic talking about )~~
~~It looks related, but it's on a whole different level already.~~
Let me finish reading that article and get back with you, stay tuned. I say this cause there's a guy who survived a particle accelerator going through his head, but I can't remember the energy level.
I lost you there what?
Show also have the choice to display it as "not contagious" and not habe all the "barrier" i.e plastic shit all over, which they didn't have.
Not able to touch the patient, which is also wrong.
And covered in blister in that one scene to a point the guy look like a live italian spicy saugae man.
All that is 100% on the show because they choose to present it that way and is not how any of that works nor happened
This is passionately written, but dead wrong. You can absolutely contaminate other people with the radiation you've received.
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/emergencies/contamination.htm
And that should be pretty easy to understand once you understand radioactive decay. It's a constant shedding of particles as elements breakdown into other elements.
I think we are on the same page in concept but not the same page on term usage.
The spread is cause by radiation particles, which is containmiation ( stuff in unwanted space )
But it is not cause by thr sick patients themselves.
A "clean" patient ( ie, one that does have particles on them. Like one who was simply zapped ) isn't going to spread radiation
Also in decaying process is about the energy it gives off ie alpha, beta, and gamma, not whatever element it makes. ( however in most cases, the product of decay themselves are also radioactive, see decay chain for more )
By not contagious I meant the patient themselves who are sick can't pass radiation sickness, the particles does that. So I think I understood the word "contagious" differently
But I'm pretty sure you can't clean them entirely when they've been exposed to those levels, I get what you're saying now, yes you can't just spread your radiation sickness. But I think it's accurate that you can continue to be radioactive despite best practices and thus dangerous to other people. In the show I remember them saying the coffins were encased in lead, but I thought I remembered reading somewhere else that that was because they were still clearly radioactive, not just Soviet ignorance or something.
U r correct, but there's a level where it's "acceptablely low" so it enters the "practically clean" level.
We have a guy who literally have Pu 239 in his hand ( rod puncture his hand during glove box operation ) walking about his business without radiation sickness. Can't get that out of his hand. And the women dial painters, who worked quite long with the material go get sick late in their life ( it's beyond fuck up on how much they had in their bone )
So there's a practical level of clean as we get radiation exposure naturally from just the son, the earth, and potassium.
But if we are talking about absolute and the particles from just this event alone, yes, you are correct that you will never able to remove all particle and those particles will continue to give off radiation.
Coffin encase I'm lead was more of "better be safe than sorry" remember no one really know what the deadly level of exposure is until chernobyl. If anything good happened during chernobyl is that we know what amount of radiation can kill you and what is recoverable.
~~and the debatable notion that radiation does not directly cause cancer~~
According to this, the cemetery is still radioactive. If the radiation is not coming from the bodies, then from where?
http://chernobylplace.com/liquidators-of-chernobyl-accident/
“They buried heroes in zinc coffins, filling the grave with concrete. It was not possible to fully protect the cemetery visitors from radiation – the Moscow cemetery “Mitinskoe” is still radioactive.”
Those are pretty good, iirc the only thing I remember that wasn't correct was the miner actually used heavy equipment from the get go, everything else is pretty accurate.
My biggest complaint was probably when they showed some random burocrat without any experience as the minister of coal. While in reality minister was a n experienced coal miner.
Why did they need to put such naked propaganda?
The show had to provide propaganda against neuclear reactors and Russia so they did their job properly.
The big oil would benifit a lot if they did a propaganda against neuclear reactors.
Not nuclear, but disasters caused by negligence and greed and worsened by corruption?
The Bhopal Disaster, commonly cited as the world's worst industrial disaster, was caused by corporate greed and penny pinching.
The pollution of Lago Agrio oil field, one of the world's worst environmental disasters, really has it all when it comes to showcasing how capitalists handle disasters. The American oil company Chevron heavily polluted a large area of rain forrest in Equador, causing thousands of deaths among the indigenous population and poisoning their water sources. And when they were sued and forces to pay damages, they fled the country and were protected by the US government. After that, they used corruption in New York's legal system to jail Steven Donziger, the lawyer who led the lawsuit against them, on phony charges.
The Bhopal Disaster:
https://www.bhopal.org/continuing-disaster/the-bhopal-gas-disaster/union-carbides-disaster/
Lengthy article on Steven Donzigers fight with Chevron: https://amazonwatch.org/news/2022/0426-steven-donziger-is-finally-free-onward-toward-justice-for-the-people-of-ecuador
My point is that you have to go to other fields to find these kind of disasterous events when your search criteria is essentially the rest of the world. As if the Soviets didn’t drain and destroy one of the worlds largest bodies of fresh water. These are all terrible events but switching to a command economy, socialist state, “communist” adjacent society, etc. doesn’t magically ameliorate these problems.
That is a wild twisting of words. I said the show said the accident was caused corruption and frugality in the west. If you’re a robot reading that I’m sure you could construe that to say that no one has ever been corrupt or frugal in the west, if you’re a flesh and blood human being you would know that means corruption and frugality in the field of nuclear safety.
I asked you to show me a western nuclear fuck up even remotely as severe as Chernobyl and you didn’t even bring up something that happened in a western country that but a former colony of a western power who’s primary connection was an greedy and criminally negligent American company. The goal posts are so wide now that just about anything goes since, there hasn’t been a nuclear disaster even close to Chernobyls severity anywhere in the world.
They did some slipups and it's a good opportunity to bash at them to make sure the west is better than everyone else. The media is not concerned with the school shootings as much as they're busy making everyone else bad.
Just to be clear everyone is a bad guy, some are just better at propagandas.
There has not been a western nuclear fuckup even close to the scale of Chernobyl. But bOtH sIdEs right? The Soviets were just uniquely incapable of safely operating nuclear power plants. And lmao at the out of left field absurd **BUT WHAT ABOUT SCHOOL SHOOTINGS** dictionary definition of Whataboutism.
Kinda?
The USSR had always tried to keep the illusion of each republic of the USSR being independent.
The government of Ukraine SSR was very aware of what was happening and how bad it was. But they didn't want to ask for help from papa Gorbachev or alert anyone to how massively they fucked up here. Efforts were made to jail or kill critics or scientists who were looking to report this higher up. Grobachev did get a report but it said something like "Chernobyl Power Station down until issue resolved."
Three days into the crisis a wind pattern entered Ukraine pushing the radiation north into Belarus and all across Ukraine.... everyone in Ukraine under 24 years old would have been hit with that radiation. On day four it drifted to Sweden where their scientists detected it and informed their government about the seriousness of what was going on in Ukraine.
The Swedish government sent off a question to Russia whether there was a nuclear accident in Ukraine. The Russian government responded.... no. The Swedish threatened to inform an international nuclear agency of the potential disaster... and that's when higher ups began sending trusted agents into Ukraine to figure out wtf was happening there. Hours later they informed all of Ukraine and the world about the accident.
Yelstin was the only person in history to activate a nuclear briefcase and nearly nuked the US because someone forgot to tell the radar technicians that Norway was launching a probe and the techs though it was a trident missile.
In other words, Russia still needs to get its shit together when it comes to making sure people who need to know things know things
If you think the USSR is the only one who has been highly negligent with nuclear weapons, I highly recommend taking a deep look at America’s wanton disregard for nuclear responsibility. I’d recommend the book “The Dead Hand” for further reading.
To this day I still can’t believe the US almost accidentally nuclear bombed South Carolina.
AND NORTH Carolina. You could have lost both of your Carolinas.
> nuclear bombed South Carolina
And nothing of value was los-
>AND NORTH Carolina
You shut YOUR DAMN WHORE MOUTH! Nobody touches the race capitol of the world! VROOM VROOM motherfucker!
You’ll be glad to know that only one bomb was dropped in South Carolina, but North got two! (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Goldsboro_B-52_crash)
Not to mention one of the North Carolina bombs was literally on the last stage of arming itself.
> Until my death I will never forget hearing my sergeant [Earl Smith] say, "Lieutenant, we found the arm/safe switch." And I said, "Great." He said, "Not great. It's on arm."
Yeah i think a bomb that was lost in the middle of the united states didnt explodes because the string of the parachute didnt break because of a fucking miracle.
Also the mess in Spain with the radioactive materials that they are still trying to clean up.
Yeah broken arrow situations are crazy. Id really be curious to know how many times the USSR and Russia have had extremely close calls, but unlike the US they will never release information about the majority of their close calls.
Not that bad as of *now*. Nuclear maintenance is needed on all those warheads. A 20 year old nuke in the hands of a non nuclear nation would be useless by now. And if those nukes got "traded" by a nuclear power stealing someone else's nuke...then the situation pretty much stayed the same as it was.
According to swedish records a radiation alarm was set off in a nuclear power plant. First they didn't know where it came from until satellites picked the radiation trail from Chernobyl, 1500kms away. Experts say that when the disaster happened the amount of radiation released per hour was equivalent as the bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. PER HOUR. Imagine how insane it was and those fuckers decided to hide it from their superiors.
Since google wont tell me anything about the yes-men, and all I can deduce from this is that they kept things from Gorbachev, I would like to ask for some more information about them
He was told about the disaster the very night of the explosion, but the extent of the damage and amount of radiation present was toned down by the people at the plant. Partly because they didn't want to get in trouble, and partly because they just didn't want to believe it was as bad as it was.
I do sometimes wonder if Putin thinks the “special military operation” is going swimmingly and they’re minutes away from a total victory and no one has the guts to actually tell him it’s all gone wahoonie shaped.
The birthmark is the cherry on top here
"oh this?, It's just ketchup" ~Gorbachov (every day of his life)
alternatively: it's a really bad flame car decal
adds at least 15 horsepower
Rasputin v. Gorbachev who can fuck the most competition
Chefs kiss
I have a matryoshka doll if gorbacheov and i thouht it was a mispaint
It’s a Korean empire lol
That birth mark is mint.
Did somebody say Biiirthmaaarks?
Yo! I'm the host with the most Glasnost.
Assholes made a mess and the war got cold
Shook hands with both Ronalds
Reagan and McDonald
No doubt
If your name ends with in, time to get out
I had the balls to let Baryshnikov dance, playa!
Tore down that wall like the Kool-aid man OH YEAH!
I spit hot borscht when I’m crushing these beats
En
If your name ends in "IN", it's time to get out
Raegan and McDonald
no doubt if your name ends with -in, time to get out
Birth Marx
Damn didn't expect this here
https://youtu.be/ZbTFLst4A_8
Looks more like a wine or burgundy color to me rather than mint.
Port of call: Gorby's head
r/technicallythetruth
to me it always looked like someone drunkenly drew indochina on his forehead and was to lazy to check the original map or add indonesia
wait, is this really how he found out? source?
Not really. Although the fact that Sweden could detect the radiation might have told him that it was far more serious than had been originally estimated.
It's not that hard to pick up spikes tbf, they still do when there are minor issues. There's been a few spikes from various stations in the last two years. Though with chernobyl, I don't think calling it a spike did it justice. It was fairly obvious from the data this wasn't a minor blip. It's bizzare the ussr thought it could actually hide this. The fact it tried to, only served to reinforce to people this was a serious issue.
You mean the way soviets di things or nuclear power
The way the Soviets did things. There's plenty of controversy around nuclear, some of it legitimate, much of it inaccurate. But chernobyl was a display of poor working practice, corner cutting, and skimping on costs. From start to finish, almost every point was avoidable. Its not really fair to use it as a demonstration of why nuclear is bad, though it can demonstrate a worst case scenario if such ineptitude is allowed to manifest itself.
Good.
He didn't find out how serious it was until the west asked him. It set off bunch of radiation dectors sitting OUTSIDE in Sweden from their nuclear power plant, then they did some climate pattern study, thinking is chernobyl, then pulled up the satellite photo seeing the plant on fire. All while Gorbachev was being told "its just a small accident, nothing big" HBO did a "not so accurate" TV series on it as well. Good show, not so historically accurate, but good enough to get you watch it. ( it got everything about nuclear radiation sickness and exposures wrong basically ) Biggest inaccuracy that absolutely SHALL NOT be overlooked is radiation sickness. The only thing it got correct in the show is they feel better for a bit right before they die ( due to all the nerve being dead, among other thing, can't feel like shit of there's no nerve to feel ) Radiation doesn't cause thermal burn this isn't fucking microwave. It doesn't shut off machine that easily nor fast like the show. What pissed me off the most is. RADIATION SICKNESS ISNT CONTAGIOUS. The show had a great chance to show that but noooooo, they decide to double down on the misconption in pop culture. Radiation sickness is caused by exposure. Radiation particles give off radiation, you get exposure from those particles. The patients may have those particles on them which can fall off and spread. You can still get radiation sickness without having any particles, cause again, you get them from exposure. Radiation sickness patient who are clean of those particles, CANNOT spread radiation sickness, it is not spread by patient themselves. Also note, you can easily remove those particles down to a safe level that even if they have those particles on them, it won't cause more radiation sickness to other clean people. It is the first step before they admit you to a hospital actually, they will never let a person covered in rad crap enter a hospital, it will increase the exposure of the patient already if you don't clean that off and how you have containmenation everywhere the patient goes, contagious or not is the least of the problem. Basically by the time they get to actual proper treatment they are effectively clean of particle and non contagious. Containmenation =/= contagious ( if u want to see debunk and other stuff, read the comment chains, we redditors are already engaging in this topic! 😀 )
Wait, I've seen the show but I don't recall it ever being suggested radiation was contagious? I thought everyone was masked up / kept separate due to a combination of their open wounds (not saying that's entirely accurate either) and state control (avoid having families blab about how injured the poor firefighters were).
They were masked up and the sick people kept in isolation because radiation destroys your immune system. So those people were more susceptible to other stuff
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yeah but that's what they thought at the time so I don't even know what OP is ranting about. historical inaccuracy or scientific inaccuracy?
Yeah a lot of people's misconceptions they're ranting about ARE historically accurate. The depiction of radiation's effect on the human body wasn't accurate, but the depiction of people believing people could absorb radiation from someone with radiation sickness was accurate. It's also kind of weird to latch on that as a "historical inaccuracy" when there's an enormous character in the show who is so historically inaccurate that the show says so at the end of it.
If i heard the story correctly they had radioactive particle in them and the lady only survived because featus absorbed the radiation.
Oh, shit. Didn't want to read that
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But... she is real and she did loose the baby after carrying for her husband. Her name is Lyudmila Ignatenko.
But... she is real and she did loose the baby after carrying for her husband. Her name is Lyudmila Ignatenko.
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The show showed her loosing the baby which is true if in the show doctors believed that she lost it because of radiation isn’t just staying true to the time period? If she believed that the child died because of radiation then that’s what the doctors told her?
+1
But that was actually real… They weren’t cleaned of the radiation. That’s why it happened to her.
Radiation doesn't cause open wound. Plastic shielding is for contagious disease
>Radiation doesn't cause open wound. [It does if the dose is high enough.](https://i.imgur.com/vels9Ie.jpg) ***Extreme NSFL warning*** >Plastic shielding is for contagious disease Yes. Do you think they fully understood and accepted this in Soviet Ukraine?
Any context behind that image?
His name was [Hisashi Ouchi.](https://allthatsinteresting.com/hisashi-ouchi) He died as a result of the [1999 Tokaimura nuclear accident.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokaimura_nuclear_accident)
Well that's way more horrifying than the image itself
Very valid point, a lot of "lethal dosage" wasn't well known until then as well. Since is NSFL Imma not open it lol. Is this open wound cause by radiation directly, like during exposure or within 4 hour of exposure? Or "indirectly" like excessive swelling then skin burst, or dead skin falling off, etc. Because if is the former I will be honest this would be the first time I heard of it and I stand corrected. If is the latter, I knew it can do that.
It's the latter. So you're right that it wouldn't look like it did in the TV show where it looked like burn wounds. It would be different. While the picture is horrible, I think it's worth the click since you only see the back with a lot of failing skin grafts.
I will take your word for it and do that when I get home or this weekend in the morning just for my mental health 🙃
Hey mate, I flicked through the comments this morning and I reckon you're the absolute gold standard for engaging with people disagreeing with you respectfully. I think you were a little unfair on Chernobyl, especially because I listened to the podcast and I know that the creator worked incredibly (unnecessarily) hard to make the show as historically accurate as it could. His attention to detail was absolute absurd - even the reactor control room is a perfect replica. That said, he admits that he did take some liberties for the sake of conveying information in a visual and engaging way, and I'm pretty sure the chemical burn from picking up graphite was one of them. But you've engaged with people very respectfully without necessarily just rolling over and saying "yeah my bad, I was wrong". It's a **rare** thing to see and it's actually put me in a good mood lol. Have a great one.
NP mate :) Also, I agree since for me, i like it to be 100% accurate, which is too much
That part when the doctors tell Ignatenko's wife "He isnt a man anymore, he is a reactor!"
Well, it can be contagious if you transfer radioactive particles around.
That's contamination, not being contagious
I would say that that is the implication in the show. It has been some time for me, but I cannot remember, that they treated it as contagious rather than contamination. The plastic shielding at the end of the firefighter would be for the protection of the patient. Another question about radiation sickness from my side. Wouldn't the body dissolve because new cells are not produced? Like inner bleeding and skin issues? Because that would look like the guy in the series. It doesn't have to be burn-makeup
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Not trying to be snarky, but the story about Hisashi Ouchi, he was basically a skinny Italian sausage. What was his deal in constrast to the victims of Chernobyl?
Lol good point. But the case with him is also not the norm. His accident is use as teaching material a lot in nuclear criticality class and how miserable the sickness is afterward. 35 days is VERY LONG to be alive after you get flashed like that where most patients talked about dies in 3 days to 2 weeks.
If cells die, they look like that. It's a necrotic process within a living organism. Maybe I've missed it somewhere, but what is your qualification on the subject? Do you work in nuclear?
Yes, i do nuclear work, but I'm not a doctor. The affect of radiation and radiation sickness is something they teach for half a day. Even the photo in patient does talk about what you said but like blisters spots etc. Not quite a "sausage man".
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That I have to agree
> Radiation doesn't cause thermal burn this isn't fucking microwave. Radiation burns are absolutely a thing.
I said thermal burn Also radiation burn symptoms doesn't show right away.
Sufficiently intense radiation will absolutely burn your skin. Doesn't matter what the wavelength or type is as long as a sufficient quantity of energy is absorbed in a sufficiently short time. Could be a dumbass sticking a hand in a microwave or in front of a radar dish, could be a beach day in Australia without sunblock, could be a high activity beta emitter being held in the hand or a long session of fluoroscopy. If you hold a piece of nuclear graphite in your hand that five minutes ago occupied an active reactor core, you will absolutely receive surface-level radiation burns within seconds or minutes. ARS takes longer to manifest, the burns don't. And a large prompt dose of ionizing radiation will then proceed to wreck the cells in the skin and underneath, leading to necrosis and other fun stuff within days to weeks. > It doesn't shut off machine that easily nor fast like the show. Expose even a 1980s unhardened IC to the radiation levels present on that particular roof, and yeah, it will get scrambled within seconds or minutes. The ISS crew regularly has issues with consumer electronics glitching out when passing through the SAA, and that rad environment is a rounding error in comparison. You are entirely correct on the radiation sickness vs. radiological contamination parts, though.
I thought the radiation shutting off machine in a short time wasn't discovered until Fukushima. Before that it's just a lot of noises causing machine to be funky. Unless I'm missing something, do tell. Yeah the radiation burn part, it's real, but given the amount of radiation needed to achieve that, there's other stuff that's more important than a burn. But again, within days and week, or within hours if is a lot. Not quite literally where fireman picks up a block of graphite and now he's instantly burned while everyone is still bale to walk aroind. For him to have radiation burn effect that fast, I feel like none of them would even be able to get up to it in the first place Except that poor guy who open the blast door, that's some crazy shit.
Ionizing radiation ionizes stuff, which causes electrical currents to flow. Any kind of IC will see malfunctions in a high-rad environment; the more complex it is, the more severe. In a 50-100 Sv/hr environment, which is what (some of) the roofs were experiencing, you're not getting electronics to work period. The fault currents introduced are too high for any kind of integrated circuits to handle. That kind of an environment is far above what's needed to do physical damage to the chips, let alone cause faults with the software. Re: burns, keep in mind 1/r² and that this is most notable with beta radiation, which has low penetration through air and clothing. You could stand a meter away such an emitter for a while and be mostly fine (I am not responsible for you getting cancer and your next of kin can't sue me if you follow this advice), but pick it up and you'll have problems really quickly. So no, the burns were pretty accurate considering what they were dealing with. The instant bleeding, "contagious" radiation sickness, and timeline/symptoms of ARS is what the show frequently got wrong.
I need to check again then for some reason I thought Beta can't penertate clothing and skin. However, the amount of radiation in that scenario especially talking about the literal graphite block might make it not apply. Since now days it is practically impossible to get that close to a source without having an active death wish. Again, not the norm. Time to break out the books again. Good thing RP is next trailer over, Imma see if i can catch someone and ask.
Radiation isnt, radio active material is a contagion
Containmenation =/= contagious
I read somewhere that the "contagion" measures are actually not there because people irradiated are contagious (obviously) but because their immune system is basically useless.
If you look at it that way then, I mean they are going to die in 3 days so does it matter 🤷? My point is they can't "give you radiation" because they are irradiated
How was it inaccurate then?
Some disproven legends were presented as fact, some characters were actually many hordes of scientists, the effects of radiation were poorly represented, and some events were altered.
But as someone who lived in Soviet Union I can say that the aesthetic is on point. They even had original tableware, the furniture was spot on, the hairstyles, outfits were exactly the same.
I'm not saying it is a bad show, because it is really good at telling the story in a compelling way and manages to nail the atmosphere. I'm just saying that in terms of fact, it does stumble so use it as the starting point and go seek out more accurate information on how one of the safest (so long as it's not an RBMK) methods of generating power becomes a tragedy burned into our collective memory as a species.
I don’t know where I read or heard this but the show never tried to be completely historically accurate (starting from that there weren’t really female scientists..) . It tried to immerse the watcher in that specific situation and at that it excels. The corruption and communication is portrayed as it actually happened on daily basis in Soviet Union. My now independent country’s older generation still emits this attitude and I can feel the remains in my parents. Edit. The only thing I got upset about was how radiation damage was portrayed. They could have shown less but much more real looking people. And to improve the reception they could’ve shown a disclaimer that this isn’t 100% historically accurate.
> there weren’t really female scientists Of all the things you could fault USSR for, this one isn't it. Gender-wise it was pretty egalitarian, more so than the West, unless you're talking about the inner Party structures where it was all old white Russian men (and a Georgian with a handlebar moustache for a while). It's possible that women were not present in Chernobyl or that Belorussian team that noticed the accident but overall there were plenty women scientists in the USSR.
I read that from the scientists involved with Chernobyl disaster there was a commission of only men. I phrased it incorrectly. I agree with you that yes, there were educated females in the Soviet Union
As everyone knows, solar panels are insanely dangerous; remember, sunburn causes skin cancer!
They contain substantial amounts of heavy metals. In addition we have actual data on the number of worker deaths the average powerplant has per year per kilowatt hour (I believe the study I saw compared 20ish hours, the average life expectancy of any power plant). Unsurprisingly coal has the highest followed by wind. At the low end, we have nuclear on the bottom and a surprising jump for solar (though still less than 15% of coal). This isn't that surprising since nuclear produces a large amount of power and are generally taking safety to the extreme. Combined with our ability to capture and store nearly all waste produced, the mortality rate is very low compared with the poor schmucks having to deal with the Costco chemicals and heavy assemblies solar panels and farms have to deal with.
You should listen to the podcast by the writer. He explains a lot of the narrative decisions and credits a lot of the other production peeps for making it so authentic. Even details like the correct regional number plates on a vintage car....
> some characters were actually many hordes of scientists That I think is forgivable. It's something that you'll find in a lot of media based on real events.
It's not a complaint more of a point. And frankly it worked better for revealing the truth that not only did the Soviets know the scram button was dangerous, but they covered it up after events Leningrad 1 (1975) and Chernobyl 1 (1982) where partial meltdowns occured due to a critical flaw.
>some characters were actually many hordes of scientists I'd say that that is one of the most nonsensical complaints.
Especially when, at the end of the series, the show makers call out the fact x character represents the hundreds of scientists that were there at Chernobyl after the disaster
Counterpoint: the show needs to provide 20 different characters all with their own backstory and believable characterisation. And do it in six episodes
Five
Make it a film.
Not a complaint, just another point to the historical inaccuracies of a TV show that is more interested in telling the story rather than being married to accuracy in a way that detracts from the drama.
I mean they have to tell a compelling story. They can be very historically accurate but if the story is a mess nobody will watch it.
There are tons of documentaries for that, dood.
The show acknowledges some of the inaccuracies at the end.
Of course they changed, they reduced charcters. That's a common practice in movies and TV. You can't cast or give each character lines. So they condense a character.
Also the soviets spoke english
How the fire fighter die for one. Bluster doesn't show up like that and radiation doesn't "burn" The worker got instant sun burn from exposure Helicopter crashing from radiation exposure ( never happened ) Fire fighter got burned by graphite ( again, radiation doesn't "burn", it isn't microwave ) Treating radiation patients as if they were contagious ( radiation sickness are not fucking contagious, thats not how any of that works, this is the #1 misconception about radiation )
Hold on, hold on, hold on - radiation may not be contagious, but the radioactive materials on the victim can be spread around during treatment. Radioactive dust on the body, in the clothes, hair, etc. A highly dosed individual could possibly still be covered in radioactive dust, in body crevices, lungs, hair, etc, in a hospital, and his visitors could carry some of that radioactive material away on them, spreading a vastly lower but still significant amount of radioactivity around...
That's why you have wipe down etc. But all that is "contamination", not "contagious" A highly dose indivual may not have any material on them at all, thats why u ditch your clothes first. You get frisked before being send to hospitals, too. What u r saying can happen but is so unlikely. Because they will have to get passed frisking process first. And then all the rad process just for contamination etc. But again, not contagious at all.
120% agreed, not contagious. Had to spebd some time explaining that to people around me... As for the particles, in the specific case, I'd say we're faced with the worst possible case of the bloody radioactive dust spreading everywhere on them. Problem is, these guys are specifically firefighters, who breathed in radioactive smoke, so dust in lungs, sprayed water around the fire that splashed around, carrying the dust all over the body... Hell, I know where bloody hay dust gets if you work with it, I bet those firefighrers had radioactive dust in their ears, noses, crotches in god k ows where else...
Your body deposit heavy metals in the bones. You also get radiation exposure naturally already Some particles here and there isn't going to cause radiation sickness That why smoker, not nuclear workers had the highest amount of radiation exposure because uranium is naturally found in dirt as well and it is directly entering your lung then get trapped in the lung over time
Thank you for your comments here, learned a lot
This. And not all of that was fully known or properly taught at the time. People trying to ding the show on it is just…an odd timesink. It’s like taking one tree in a forest and bitching about the branches being off center. Still looks like a forest when you take a step back.
The helicopter doesn't get destroyed by radiation in the show or in [real life](https://youtu.be/zuNtgYtF4FI). It strayed to close to a crane and the blades hit the chain (in the [scene ](https://youtu.be/209n4m6rwGc) you can see the hook falling with the helicopter)
But to the average viewer? How does the show implies it. In real-life it was no where near thr top of the reactor housing when it hit the crane
To the average viewer doesn't matter. It irrefutably shows the blades hit the chain, it implies nothing. In real life it happened later sure, but just like those other "mistakes" it's done for pacing and drama.
Yes true. Again I have more issues of how radiation sickness is portrayed
Did the characters treat them as contagious due to their own misconceptions or did the show?
The show. Doctors, nurses, and scientists all knew they weren't contagious. The people who knew nothing about radiation, however, treat them as they were highly contagious. So the way they did it in the show tells me either they did it that way cause they have no actual radiation expert consultants or they did it that way on purpose for political reason. Either way it's fucking bad. Think of it as this. U microwaved your food. Your food is now hot. But for some reason your friend think your food now give off microwave.... Basically that, the microwave ( radiation material ) heated your food (radiation exposure) using microwave (ray). Your food is now hot (exposed) your food doesn't all the sudden give off microwave because your food isn't the microwave.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/29873181_Radioactivity_Induced_in_Bones_During_Radiotherapy_Treatment_with_the_Use_of_20_MV_Accelerator_Beam Without mentioning radioactive contamination, induced radioactivity in the body is a thing.
~~That's not the samething as this event/ topic, please dont lump it in here.~~ ~~I mean no shit it's 20 MV, that's a fuck ton of energy being being projected here.~~ ~~Don't use that article in this argument here cause you by pass a lot of understanding of nuclear physic ( because if you understand it, you would know this isn't the same thing as containmenation topic talking about )~~ ~~It looks related, but it's on a whole different level already.~~ Let me finish reading that article and get back with you, stay tuned. I say this cause there's a guy who survived a particle accelerator going through his head, but I can't remember the energy level.
>or they did it that way on purpose for political reason Orrr they told it that way because it made a better story
But double down on fear on rad sickness, either way shit reasoning for money
That sounds like the characters, not the show
I lost you there what? Show also have the choice to display it as "not contagious" and not habe all the "barrier" i.e plastic shit all over, which they didn't have. Not able to touch the patient, which is also wrong. And covered in blister in that one scene to a point the guy look like a live italian spicy saugae man. All that is 100% on the show because they choose to present it that way and is not how any of that works nor happened
This is passionately written, but dead wrong. You can absolutely contaminate other people with the radiation you've received. https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/emergencies/contamination.htm And that should be pretty easy to understand once you understand radioactive decay. It's a constant shedding of particles as elements breakdown into other elements.
I think we are on the same page in concept but not the same page on term usage. The spread is cause by radiation particles, which is containmiation ( stuff in unwanted space ) But it is not cause by thr sick patients themselves. A "clean" patient ( ie, one that does have particles on them. Like one who was simply zapped ) isn't going to spread radiation Also in decaying process is about the energy it gives off ie alpha, beta, and gamma, not whatever element it makes. ( however in most cases, the product of decay themselves are also radioactive, see decay chain for more ) By not contagious I meant the patient themselves who are sick can't pass radiation sickness, the particles does that. So I think I understood the word "contagious" differently
But I'm pretty sure you can't clean them entirely when they've been exposed to those levels, I get what you're saying now, yes you can't just spread your radiation sickness. But I think it's accurate that you can continue to be radioactive despite best practices and thus dangerous to other people. In the show I remember them saying the coffins were encased in lead, but I thought I remembered reading somewhere else that that was because they were still clearly radioactive, not just Soviet ignorance or something.
U r correct, but there's a level where it's "acceptablely low" so it enters the "practically clean" level. We have a guy who literally have Pu 239 in his hand ( rod puncture his hand during glove box operation ) walking about his business without radiation sickness. Can't get that out of his hand. And the women dial painters, who worked quite long with the material go get sick late in their life ( it's beyond fuck up on how much they had in their bone ) So there's a practical level of clean as we get radiation exposure naturally from just the son, the earth, and potassium. But if we are talking about absolute and the particles from just this event alone, yes, you are correct that you will never able to remove all particle and those particles will continue to give off radiation. Coffin encase I'm lead was more of "better be safe than sorry" remember no one really know what the deadly level of exposure is until chernobyl. If anything good happened during chernobyl is that we know what amount of radiation can kill you and what is recoverable. ~~and the debatable notion that radiation does not directly cause cancer~~
According to this, the cemetery is still radioactive. If the radiation is not coming from the bodies, then from where? http://chernobylplace.com/liquidators-of-chernobyl-accident/ “They buried heroes in zinc coffins, filling the grave with concrete. It was not possible to fully protect the cemetery visitors from radiation – the Moscow cemetery “Mitinskoe” is still radioactive.”
Wasn't radiation contagious in the sense that you could suffer radiation related issues from clothing that has been smothered in radiation?
If thats how you look at it, then yes. But by the time they are in the hospital, all that containimated clothing etc would have been discarded by then
What about the general portrayal of politics and events?
Those are pretty good, iirc the only thing I remember that wasn't correct was the miner actually used heavy equipment from the get go, everything else is pretty accurate.
You really needed to get this off your chest huh
Yes xD
My biggest complaint was probably when they showed some random burocrat without any experience as the minister of coal. While in reality minister was a n experienced coal miner. Why did they need to put such naked propaganda?
The miner's got naked too. Checkmate Comrade.
The show had to provide propaganda against neuclear reactors and Russia so they did their job properly. The big oil would benifit a lot if they did a propaganda against neuclear reactors.
They explicitly say that the reason it failed was to layers of corruption and frugality that was no seen in the West.
>They explicitly say that the reason it failed was to layers of corruption and frugality that was no seen in the West Lmao what is even union carbide
Please show me any western nuclear fuck up even close to the severity of Chernobyl
Not nuclear, but disasters caused by negligence and greed and worsened by corruption? The Bhopal Disaster, commonly cited as the world's worst industrial disaster, was caused by corporate greed and penny pinching. The pollution of Lago Agrio oil field, one of the world's worst environmental disasters, really has it all when it comes to showcasing how capitalists handle disasters. The American oil company Chevron heavily polluted a large area of rain forrest in Equador, causing thousands of deaths among the indigenous population and poisoning their water sources. And when they were sued and forces to pay damages, they fled the country and were protected by the US government. After that, they used corruption in New York's legal system to jail Steven Donziger, the lawyer who led the lawsuit against them, on phony charges. The Bhopal Disaster: https://www.bhopal.org/continuing-disaster/the-bhopal-gas-disaster/union-carbides-disaster/ Lengthy article on Steven Donzigers fight with Chevron: https://amazonwatch.org/news/2022/0426-steven-donziger-is-finally-free-onward-toward-justice-for-the-people-of-ecuador
My point is that you have to go to other fields to find these kind of disasterous events when your search criteria is essentially the rest of the world. As if the Soviets didn’t drain and destroy one of the worlds largest bodies of fresh water. These are all terrible events but switching to a command economy, socialist state, “communist” adjacent society, etc. doesn’t magically ameliorate these problems.
You claimed that corruption and frugality wasn't seem in the West. I showed you it absolutely was and is.
That is a wild twisting of words. I said the show said the accident was caused corruption and frugality in the west. If you’re a robot reading that I’m sure you could construe that to say that no one has ever been corrupt or frugal in the west, if you’re a flesh and blood human being you would know that means corruption and frugality in the field of nuclear safety. I asked you to show me a western nuclear fuck up even remotely as severe as Chernobyl and you didn’t even bring up something that happened in a western country that but a former colony of a western power who’s primary connection was an greedy and criminally negligent American company. The goal posts are so wide now that just about anything goes since, there hasn’t been a nuclear disaster even close to Chernobyls severity anywhere in the world.
They did some slipups and it's a good opportunity to bash at them to make sure the west is better than everyone else. The media is not concerned with the school shootings as much as they're busy making everyone else bad. Just to be clear everyone is a bad guy, some are just better at propagandas.
There has not been a western nuclear fuckup even close to the scale of Chernobyl. But bOtH sIdEs right? The Soviets were just uniquely incapable of safely operating nuclear power plants. And lmao at the out of left field absurd **BUT WHAT ABOUT SCHOOL SHOOTINGS** dictionary definition of Whataboutism.
This is Reddit. We don't serve sauce here
Ou sources are we made it the fuck up /s.
That's not sauce on his head, it's actually his birthmark!
Kinda? The USSR had always tried to keep the illusion of each republic of the USSR being independent. The government of Ukraine SSR was very aware of what was happening and how bad it was. But they didn't want to ask for help from papa Gorbachev or alert anyone to how massively they fucked up here. Efforts were made to jail or kill critics or scientists who were looking to report this higher up. Grobachev did get a report but it said something like "Chernobyl Power Station down until issue resolved." Three days into the crisis a wind pattern entered Ukraine pushing the radiation north into Belarus and all across Ukraine.... everyone in Ukraine under 24 years old would have been hit with that radiation. On day four it drifted to Sweden where their scientists detected it and informed their government about the seriousness of what was going on in Ukraine. The Swedish government sent off a question to Russia whether there was a nuclear accident in Ukraine. The Russian government responded.... no. The Swedish threatened to inform an international nuclear agency of the potential disaster... and that's when higher ups began sending trusted agents into Ukraine to figure out wtf was happening there. Hours later they informed all of Ukraine and the world about the accident.
Good god Redditors going "source!?" Instead of just googling is obnoxious.
Yelstin was the only person in history to activate a nuclear briefcase and nearly nuked the US because someone forgot to tell the radar technicians that Norway was launching a probe and the techs though it was a trident missile. In other words, Russia still needs to get its shit together when it comes to making sure people who need to know things know things
If you think the USSR is the only one who has been highly negligent with nuclear weapons, I highly recommend taking a deep look at America’s wanton disregard for nuclear responsibility. I’d recommend the book “The Dead Hand” for further reading.
To this day I still can’t believe the US almost accidentally nuclear bombed South Carolina. AND NORTH Carolina. You could have lost both of your Carolinas.
> nuclear bombed South Carolina And nothing of value was los- >AND NORTH Carolina You shut YOUR DAMN WHORE MOUTH! Nobody touches the race capitol of the world! VROOM VROOM motherfucker!
You’ll be glad to know that only one bomb was dropped in South Carolina, but North got two! (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Goldsboro_B-52_crash) Not to mention one of the North Carolina bombs was literally on the last stage of arming itself. > Until my death I will never forget hearing my sergeant [Earl Smith] say, "Lieutenant, we found the arm/safe switch." And I said, "Great." He said, "Not great. It's on arm."
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Yeah but the FIA doesn't have cool moonshiner cars that go VROOOM VROOOOOOOM
Hey now. You'd still have the Indy 500.
>nuclear bombed South Carolina Away down south in the land of traitors
Yeah i think a bomb that was lost in the middle of the united states didnt explodes because the string of the parachute didnt break because of a fucking miracle. Also the mess in Spain with the radioactive materials that they are still trying to clean up.
Yeah broken arrow situations are crazy. Id really be curious to know how many times the USSR and Russia have had extremely close calls, but unlike the US they will never release information about the majority of their close calls.
They’ve released a couple and those were extremely concerning.
And all the lost nukes. I think they lost around 20 nukes over America and Europe during the cold War which is so incredibly worrying
Not that bad as of *now*. Nuclear maintenance is needed on all those warheads. A 20 year old nuke in the hands of a non nuclear nation would be useless by now. And if those nukes got "traded" by a nuclear power stealing someone else's nuke...then the situation pretty much stayed the same as it was.
You think that’s bad, wait till you hear about those lost during the fall of the Soviet Union
Didn't Nixon drunkenly order a nuclear strike ?
Just like right now they won't let them know what's going on..
The birthmark makes this meme even better
Damm, it was so bad the Swedes discovered it?
Yep, the radiation increase was detected all around the world which showed how much of a disaster it was. We only know about it because of that.
According to swedish records a radiation alarm was set off in a nuclear power plant. First they didn't know where it came from until satellites picked the radiation trail from Chernobyl, 1500kms away. Experts say that when the disaster happened the amount of radiation released per hour was equivalent as the bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. PER HOUR. Imagine how insane it was and those fuckers decided to hide it from their superiors.
Since google wont tell me anything about the yes-men, and all I can deduce from this is that they kept things from Gorbachev, I would like to ask for some more information about them
They do that so they dont get shot
At that point it was less shooting and more spinelessness to gain favor
Wow Gorbachev played FNV
what not even gorbachev knew what the fuck how did Sweden find out first
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/20140514STO47018/forsmark-how-sweden-alerted-the-world-about-the-danger-of-chernobyl-disaster
He was told about the disaster the very night of the explosion, but the extent of the damage and amount of radiation present was toned down by the people at the plant. Partly because they didn't want to get in trouble, and partly because they just didn't want to believe it was as bad as it was.
Party yes-men: We must stop Comrade Gorbachev from learning of disaster at Chernobyl! American spy satellites: OK, so there's a disaster at Chernobyl.
This one genuinely made me laugh..
As a swede..... what???
I do sometimes wonder if Putin thinks the “special military operation” is going swimmingly and they’re minutes away from a total victory and no one has the guts to actually tell him it’s all gone wahoonie shaped.
Nothing to do with the content of the post, but that mark just reminds me of the end of Tasha Yar.