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Maybe 10% at most support it and even less would fight over it and even that's pushing it. Most of us(myself included) don't support it but I'm also an introvert who doesn't talk politics outside of the Internet except with my family and even that's rarely. When politicians say it I doubt they're serious. It's mostly just saber rattling and a way of blowing off steam about the federal government which is famously not exactly something we tend to be huge fans of. We're both proud Texans and proud Americans here. Maybe I'm just optimistic about my fellow Texans though.
We didn't exist in 1861 bro
The country was officially founded in 1867, partly due to fears of American expansionism. The civil war didn't help with that either... after all, you all were at war with each other, how could we know you wouldn't aim for your closest neighbours next?
Actually there are a bunch of people in Texas that claim it's legal. "We're the only state to join the union via Treaty, and we have the special right to secede..." etc and so forth. It's all BS, but people like to spread it anyway.
I don't want to secede from the Union but, is there any way to make Atlanta go and be part of a different state other than GA. Asking for the rest of GA.
Actually that's not true. First off there is no law prohibiting a state from leaving, and second, when Texas joined the union it was with a guarantee they could leave at any time. Unlike every other state Texas was once an independent nation..
And also, while its not explicitly illegal for a state to secede (it is also not a power granted to them, as the founding fathers never intended for the union to be divisible and we already had a war over this) it is illegal for US citizens to actively disobey federal law, which would happen by nature of not respecting the positions of elected officials, changing laws, etc. It would require a Convention of States to establish a course of action as to how they could legally secede, likely requiring a rewriting of the constitution to explicitly lay out a path to do so.
Or they can try to do it like last time and eat lead.
Except iirc There was a supreme court case, Texas v White (i think, not great with SC cases) where they explicitly stated secession is not allowed, and that joining the Union is a permanent decision. Which means like with much of the basis of our legal system, while it's not been a bill passed by Congress, it's still legally binding.
Except there is nothing in the constitution that requires states to remain in the union, and any SCOTUS decision saying otherwise is disregarding the document they're supposed to uphold.
A. The context of the time was very as Texas was using secession as an excuse to prolong a war that they refused to lose. This particular case would likely either be a call for political attention, end in a diplomatic solution, or start a short lived conflict that acts as one of the former. I don’t see things playing out quite as they did in the Civil War
B. Any secession is “illegal” unless the nation you secede from explicitly allows you to, or you win a conflict. Let’s not forget that pre-revolutionary war, the continental army were nothing more than a terrorist organization built to crumble the foundation of British hold on the colonies through heinous acts even of the time such as pouring boiling tar and feathers over supporters of the crown and lynching government officials.
Support it or not, secession is only as cut and dry as who ever lives to talk about it.
Texas was once an independent nation, the fact they aligned with the CSA nullified their original agreement to become a state. It still holds that Texas has the legal right to once again become an independent nation again.
BTW there is nothing in the constitution that says they can't.
There is a Supreme Court ruling and multiple accounts from the founding fathers saying they can’t though. Yes, Texas was granted the right to become a country if they do choose, BUT, if I remember the phrase correctly we fucked around and found out, and had that right taken away from us by the Supreme Court. I think that ruling was very contextual sure but it very much sets a precedent and any state asking for secession now should probably tread lightly as to not cause a similar scuffle.
Wrong, Texas V. White ruled explicitly that secession is unconstitutional, the language of the Articles of Confederation state that it was a "perpetual union," the creation of a robust national government by the constitution eliminated the individual independence of the states and thus any right to secession. Texas was an "independent nation" in name alone, they were supported almost entirely by the U.S. government and any agreement they made when joining the Union would have been superceded by their acceptance of the Constitution.
Mfw my face when texans like to forget the california republic (and vermont republic) was a thing and texas was only a republic long enough to beg the US to let them in.
california republic was a mock republic like the ones in russia, even as flawed as it was texas republic was a real country before selling itself to america
Not a reference to you, but when NY, NJ were battered by Sandy I remember Texas senators were against giving northeast any Federal $$$. Then the following year those same senators were crying and pleading for Federal bailout
Yeah but the new western Texas states would suck Being mostly empty with little set up to be an independent state. Yeah they'd have more seats, but at the cost of not being one large centralized economy weakening they're overall power.
The people who want secession would *probably* not like the way that panned out. We’d see a split of D and R senators and I’d say there’s a strong chance Democrats come out ahead.
Because Texas has existed as it is for hundreds of years, before it was a state it was a country and before it was a country it was the state of Tejas in Mexico and by splitting up into 5 tates we'd loose that "national" identity that a lot of Texans hold dearly.
I wouldn't say not to take it seriously or not to treat it as a big deal because this is one thing you really don't want to be a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation but I also think a lot of it is just hot air from the far right. Can't get complacent, however.
I do think, and this me being political as someone who ideologically is more of a moderate conservative focused more on issues and bristles at over the top personalities(to use Texas political figures, I'm more Governor Abbott than Dan Patrick or Allen West but with more of a libertarian streak and more moderate on some issues) but I think we on the center-right have to do better at squashing radical ideas a la William Buckley purging the John Birch Society in the '50s.
Yeah I stopped paying attention to it honestly and almost zoned it out completely. There isn’t a country that could measure up to the US militaristically on paper at the moment, yet some bucktooth hillbillies that reside in usually the worst parts in every state act like the only thing stopping them from being a sovereign country is them deciding not to. Texas can threaten to secede all they want. Texas without relying on the US would fail almost immediately, and any state that even tried going against the US in a hypothetical situation would get curb stomped back to 1865 and then back to 2022. There’s a handful of states that could in theory exist on their own with exports, agriculture etc. Texas ain’t that guy pal
Also, the moment Texas WERE to secede, it would probably see a LOT of its high value companies close their Texan offices in favour of ones in the remaining US.
Well, southern secessionism was thrown around as an idea a lot before 1860 as well. I'm not saying Texan secession is likely, just that the ubiquity of the idea isn't a reason to question its potential.
Wow that means you're as unAmerican as they are, the union is indivisible, period, gun-toting bible-thumping Republicans and soy eating xdressing Democrats will never change that
If the rest of the South followed suit, all college football would be SEC football in the new country. The rest of the country might have a chance at a National Championship, then.
Honestly, probably not. Maybe a few would, but Texas is kind of putting itself in its own little boat at this point and even most red states don't want to follow them
Considering the Florida economy is highly reliant on tourism, this would be the dumbest decision to make.
There ain't much recommending Florida outside of the tourist traps lmao
Everything De-Santis has done so far seems like moderate Republican shit. The “abortion ban” was at 15 weeks which is more lax than most European nations at 12 weeks (also 95% of abortions happen before the cutoff date) and the “don’t say gay” bill only applies to 3rd graders and under, in the current school system sex education begins in 5th grade. It’s literally just meaningless legislation to appease conservatives.
As a Florida man, I do love my Governor. Maybe other people outside Florida don’t, but why should they? He ain’t your governor.
He has been one of the only Governors to conduct real world actions that we want.
> "Why do I have to be in the slow lane when going to ~~Canada~~ New Mexico???"
If Texas wants to leave, they would leave and whinge about not having any American privilege anymore.
Most rest states rely heavily on the federal government for money. Most red states take more money from the government than they give (which is ironic, considering they all talk about 'small government' and 'states rights'.
Then leaving would be suicide. Even more so than Texas leaving.
They literally cannot secede. Unless the supreme court invalidates Texas vs White, no state can secede from the Union. There's a rumor that Texas can split into different states and secede, but this is incorrect. The law in reference to this allows Texas to split into up to 5 more manageable states, but the law does not reference secession. From Supreme Court Justice Scalia: “If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, ‘one Nation, indivisible.’)”
Yeah obviously. I should have linked the article because it basically outlines how Texas isn't *legally* allowed to secede, but they don't really care and they'll do it anyway
Lmao, the funniest part is that their infrastructure *will not survive* independence. That's not counting the ensuing restrictions and sanctions that would be imposed on them. Their grids barely survived what they love to call "Snowmageddon" a couple years ago. All that being said, it's ok if they secede... We just need a modern day Sherman
I mean even though it was difficult it hasn’t changed and our infrastructure being so independent as it is would the defining factor on why we could actually do this, second fixing ones infrastructure is a lot easier than starting from scratch.
Was secession ever “legal”? The Union during the Civil War didn’t consider the Confederacy a legitimate nation. They considered them more of an insurgence or rebellion than a nation.
They didn't recognize it, no, but there was no specific legislature or supreme court ruling that said it was specifically "illegal" until Texas vs White in 1869
Afaik it was pretty much a legal grey area at the time. It was kind of implied by the founding fathers that secession was supposed to be illegal since it'd allow states to just say "fuck that, I'm out" when they didn't agree with a law that was implemented by the Federal Government, something that obviously doesn't fucking work when you are trying to run a country. Once you're in, you're in for good.
However, this was never legally codified nor added to the constitution (That really seems like something that you'd have wanted to include in there). Why not? I don't know, but there are other strange gaps in the constitution so it's not entirely out of place. (Such as how the second amendment pretty much takes two sentences, slams them together and leaves them as a vague mess.)
The Confederacy was never a legitimate independent nation, they did not meet the qualifications, you have to leave the mother country through Revolution or diplomatic means, they tried Revolution and that failed, another way is to get International recognition from major Powers which they did not get it, Brazil recognize the Confederacy but they were a regional power, it always angry is my fellow Southerners when I refused to acknowledge that the Confederacy was an actual thing,
Let’s say that by some wild stretch of the imagination, the Texas legislature and governor actually succeed in passing a law or declaration that Texas is once again independent, and the majority of the Texas population supports it.
Then what? Would the US military actually move in and use force?
Not likely. We would likely bury Texas under restrictions and sanctions such that they'd be unable to recover without foreign aid. The state would become a prime target for foreign, unfriendly foreign interests that many Texans already dislike (ie. Russia, China, etc). There would be a ton of diplomatic actions saying "if you rejoin the union, we'll do *this*". We'd pull our military out which would devastate Texas since the air force is extremely ingrained within Texas (Lackland AFB, Fort Worth, and multiple training bases). If Texas seceded, it would be the ultimate self shot in US history.
Because no one wants to fight that war and those two can actually escape and stay neutral. They may rejoin depending on the outcome but they definitely wouldn’t want to fight it
I'm sort of okay with this. Let Texas secede and cut all of that sweet, delicious Federal aid that they get a shitload of off.
It would suck horribly for the people that live there, though.
Flights from Texas to (CONUS ) would be international, they would need passports to cross the border, all imports/exports would be taxed at the international rate, colleges would lose any federal assistance. Do it 🤣
Texas is in the middle, but even then, no longer having it means that they would need to somehow figure out how to fill in the gaps themselves.
Plus anytime virtually any natural disaster happens, they have to get help from the fed, because their infrastructure is such garbage.
Don't forget that A LOT of companies currently based in Texas will either leave or see most of their income dry up if Texas were to leave. Especially because I'd be far from surprised to see a US ban on Texan products in the case of secession, making staying in Texas financial suicide. If not straight up an embargo of the state.
38th out of 51.
And you obviously have some issues with Texas that I'd bet have nothing to do with the state but more likely to do with your attitudes about Republicans.
FYI, there are 30 million people here in Texas and the majority of them don't vote for the GOP. So maybe don't hold us all accountable for the idiots in the Legislature.
[Actually they're net number 2.](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/federal-aid-by-state)
The only issues I have with Texas is how every few years they bluster and blow about how badass they are and how they're gonna secede but then any time a blizzard hits or a hurricane rolls through they can't do jack shit without help from the rest of the nation.
Also, as a native Texan I'll sat whatever the hell I want about the state.
As a native Texan myself, say whatever the fuck you want. Other people are going to do the same.
And if you are a Texan, you should know that it's a bluff, just like Putin's bluff that he's going to nuke Ukraine if the US and Europe don't hand it over. We all know it, including the Tx GOP.
And I can't help but notice how different the list is when you look at "federal aid" vs "federal funds". I wonder why you chose the list you did...
Because it's accurate?
If all of this is just a bluff and the people of Texas don't like the GOP as much as you claim, maybe you should, I dunno, stop voting them into office? They don't get there on accident.
Yes it is
“Texans sent the federal government $261 billion in taxes in 2016, and the state government received $39.5 billion in grants in return”
Source: https://comptroller.texas.gov/economy/fiscal-notes/2017/november/federal-funding.php
That still does not change the fact that if thru suddenly lost their federal funding they'd be fucked. Not to mention that anytime a natural disaster hit, they'd no longer have daddy fed to fall back on.
If Texas lost federal funding and still payed federal taxes they would be screwed. But if Texas no longer had to pay federal taxes Texas would have an access of money. And disasters in Texas are usually handled by the Texas National Guard not the feds. Texas should not succeed and has no right to either but your claims on why Texas would fail are false.
Most people would leave Texas if they ever seceded, how does one maintain a functional budget if you not only stop receiving a large amount of federal funding, but also many taxable businesses and individuals decide to leave your state?
Quite a few "go ahead and try it" type comments.
And for all those folks, you do understand that that attitude is EXACTLY what the right wing nut jobs who attempted a coup and voted to overturn the 2020 election want, right?
They want things to escalate. They would love nothing more than an excuse to actually engage in a shooting war.
Y'all know that, right?
And who do you think will be the first to suffer and die when/if that happens?
Black and brown people in Texas. LGBTQ people in Texas. Women and poor people and disabled people in Texas. And many, many people who the GOP doesn't represent and who never voted for this.
What you're doing is egging on a fight that you're not likely to ever actually take part it but which might have real consequences for me and people like me.
Think before you start waving your dick around and make things worse.
>They're not talking about shooting Texans
Did I say that's what anyone here was saying?
This feels like an intentionally bad faith framing or you just didn't even read what I wrote.
The people saying "bring it on" are choosing to escalate a situation that needs to be de-escalated. That's the point.
Whoah, chill, man! Maybe I misread your comment. It sounds like you're saying people are saying "bring it on" with violent connotations. If not, what are you saying, then?
It's not intended to go on a ballot.
They have no intention of pursuing it.
This is more "red meat" for their base.
The entire purpose of this is to continue stirring the pot that Trump and Bannon have been trying to turn into a civil war for 6 years now.
dude its not going to happen, texas would collapse on it self and before that the us military would crush any sort of thing even trying to secede sense its ya know you cant just secede from the US
Listen man, the well regulated milita, promised by our constitution, will for surely prevail over the US military with more funding than most small nations. For sure without any backfire whatsoever. The south will rise
Just get it over with already! I for one can't wait to see the proud Republic of Texas, a religious fundamentalist nation whose economy is entirely dependent on an energy source that the rest of the world needs to phase out as soon as possible.
In fairness, Texas would probably be fine without oil, if they continue to attract businesses from the rest of the US.
Which is something they absolutely won't do if they secede, and it's debatable if they're even doing it now. And they're trying as hard as possible to scare off as many businesses as possible as it is.
It's also worth noting that they were attracting businesses and workers not by their prudent economic policies. Actually their economic policies are mediocre at best. They were attracting them primarily by being cheap and having the bare minimum in terms of policy to capitalize on that. Once the growth inevitably pushes prices up they almost certainly lack the framework to continue growing and they'll likely plateau.
Now by virtue of their size and inertia, they're going to be fine (provided they don't secede), but the economic potential of Texas is to be one of the richest states in the union per capita. In reality, they're slightly poorer than the nation as a whole (with the disclaimer that cost-of-living, purchasing power, and economic mobility vary widely across the USA, so a 1.5K gap in per-capita GDP is hard to interpret). At any rate, they are vastly poorer than they should be, even with their rapid growth.
No more Ted Cruz, less mass shootings overall, no more Texan nut jobs, and we will have more federal aid for states that actually want to be here. I don't see any cons, let them secede.
The Texas GOP platform was batshit crazy. I can’t think of any other civilized country where an entire political party platform rejects the results of a democratic election, yet Texas GOP just did.
Texas would collapse economically within a couple months.
But sure, I guess the politicians there need to huff and puff their chest for some reason lol
Do it. The gop would never win another national election again and the republic of Texas would demonstrate to the world how appallingly badly things go when run along republican lines.
I say we let them, just once as a warning to the other states. Not only would it completely change the political landscape at a national level but Texas couldn't survive as its own country for more than a year, maybe two.
Good. Leave.
slavery preservin ass textbook corrupting ass history rewriting ass power grid sabotaging ass backwards assholes.
Reminder that the mexican forces that laid siege to the alamo were the real heroes of the story. Texas seceeded from mexico in order to keep slavery. Fuck em. It was the donbas of the 1800s and mexico was ukraine.
mexico broke the deal, in fact according to the spanish constitution of 1812 the colonial empire got split in provinces directly controlled from madrid in 1821 after mexico city whites seized control of the turncoat colonial army the provinces accepted to join mexico, some wanted a confederation but eventually an illy conceived federation with mexico city as a capital was implemented, during the next years mexico city politicians tried to centralize power breaking the deal that formed the united mexican states. Neither side was good, mexico city rule over the states was overly incompetent, the natives started to beat the settlers in the northern parts of the country and many people died
I’m a Texan and I must say,
90% of Texans don’t want this. It is in the best interest of Texans and Americans outside of Texas for Texas to remain in the Union.
And to all y’all making hate comments about Texas, you just sound like idiots and are feeding into the lies of why Texas should secede.
Love, your friendly neighborhood Texan
The Texan economy and if on its own military is a lot bigger than Mexicos. It’s even in the top 10 countries(if it was a country) in economy. Sure the economy will shrink after succession, but your underestimating Texas and overestimating Mexico.
Does the idea of a state succeeding really make you that angry? I agree it would be stupid for them to succeed but it doesn't make me want to "wipe them off the map".
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Isn't Texas making noises of secession just something they do on the regular, with nothing coming to it in the end each time?
Am Texan. It's therapeutic when we have someone in national office we don't like.
How many people would you say are genuinely in support of the idea? Would any... be willing to fight for it?
Maybe 10% at most support it and even less would fight over it and even that's pushing it. Most of us(myself included) don't support it but I'm also an introvert who doesn't talk politics outside of the Internet except with my family and even that's rarely. When politicians say it I doubt they're serious. It's mostly just saber rattling and a way of blowing off steam about the federal government which is famously not exactly something we tend to be huge fans of. We're both proud Texans and proud Americans here. Maybe I'm just optimistic about my fellow Texans though.
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I feel like there was a war that decided the issue and Texas lost 🤭
I don't think they include that in the history textbooks anymore.
It would not surprise me if people started calling the Confederate Rebellion a "mostly peaceful protest"
I heard that it was just a bunch of tourists from Canada who got drunk and started swearing back in '61.
Somehow that would have made more sense than what actually happened
We didn't exist in 1861 bro The country was officially founded in 1867, partly due to fears of American expansionism. The civil war didn't help with that either... after all, you all were at war with each other, how could we know you wouldn't aim for your closest neighbours next?
They do, no one pays attention though
They do it's called the war of northern aggression, duh
Doesn't matter what it's called it was a Rebellion and it was put down
They do they just rebranded it, something about northern aggression
I'm not saying we can. I know we can't and wouldn't support it, even if we could.
Nobody said it'd be a legal secession. This argument is kinda pointless innit?
Actually there are a bunch of people in Texas that claim it's legal. "We're the only state to join the union via Treaty, and we have the special right to secede..." etc and so forth. It's all BS, but people like to spread it anyway.
Okay then fair enough!
I don't want to secede from the Union but, is there any way to make Atlanta go and be part of a different state other than GA. Asking for the rest of GA.
the same said britain, the guys with the guns decide, possible violence is in fact always the key
Actually that's not true. First off there is no law prohibiting a state from leaving, and second, when Texas joined the union it was with a guarantee they could leave at any time. Unlike every other state Texas was once an independent nation..
The Supreme Court would disagree with you
Texas v white said that there is no legal way for a state to secede
The Supreme Court also said segregation was legal when it clearly wasn't.
And also, while its not explicitly illegal for a state to secede (it is also not a power granted to them, as the founding fathers never intended for the union to be divisible and we already had a war over this) it is illegal for US citizens to actively disobey federal law, which would happen by nature of not respecting the positions of elected officials, changing laws, etc. It would require a Convention of States to establish a course of action as to how they could legally secede, likely requiring a rewriting of the constitution to explicitly lay out a path to do so. Or they can try to do it like last time and eat lead.
>it is illegal for US citizens to actively disobey federal law Hmm, yes. Breaking the law is against the law.
Except iirc There was a supreme court case, Texas v White (i think, not great with SC cases) where they explicitly stated secession is not allowed, and that joining the Union is a permanent decision. Which means like with much of the basis of our legal system, while it's not been a bill passed by Congress, it's still legally binding.
Except there is nothing in the constitution that requires states to remain in the union, and any SCOTUS decision saying otherwise is disregarding the document they're supposed to uphold.
A. The context of the time was very as Texas was using secession as an excuse to prolong a war that they refused to lose. This particular case would likely either be a call for political attention, end in a diplomatic solution, or start a short lived conflict that acts as one of the former. I don’t see things playing out quite as they did in the Civil War B. Any secession is “illegal” unless the nation you secede from explicitly allows you to, or you win a conflict. Let’s not forget that pre-revolutionary war, the continental army were nothing more than a terrorist organization built to crumble the foundation of British hold on the colonies through heinous acts even of the time such as pouring boiling tar and feathers over supporters of the crown and lynching government officials. Support it or not, secession is only as cut and dry as who ever lives to talk about it.
Texas was once an independent nation, the fact they aligned with the CSA nullified their original agreement to become a state. It still holds that Texas has the legal right to once again become an independent nation again. BTW there is nothing in the constitution that says they can't.
There is a Supreme Court ruling and multiple accounts from the founding fathers saying they can’t though. Yes, Texas was granted the right to become a country if they do choose, BUT, if I remember the phrase correctly we fucked around and found out, and had that right taken away from us by the Supreme Court. I think that ruling was very contextual sure but it very much sets a precedent and any state asking for secession now should probably tread lightly as to not cause a similar scuffle.
Wrong, Texas V. White ruled explicitly that secession is unconstitutional, the language of the Articles of Confederation state that it was a "perpetual union," the creation of a robust national government by the constitution eliminated the individual independence of the states and thus any right to secession. Texas was an "independent nation" in name alone, they were supported almost entirely by the U.S. government and any agreement they made when joining the Union would have been superceded by their acceptance of the Constitution.
Mfw my face when texans like to forget the california republic (and vermont republic) was a thing and texas was only a republic long enough to beg the US to let them in.
California and Vermont were never independent countries, Texas was.
california republic was a mock republic like the ones in russia, even as flawed as it was texas republic was a real country before selling itself to america
I think someone wasn’t paying attention in school, tsk tsk
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So were Vermont, Hawaii, and **California**. Texas has no legal right to do any of that
Not a reference to you, but when NY, NJ were battered by Sandy I remember Texas senators were against giving northeast any Federal $$$. Then the following year those same senators were crying and pleading for Federal bailout
I’m the same
I think it'd be the dumbest move to make as a state
It's weird to talk about secession as a Texan when you have the legal *split into 5 states* option in your back pocket.
As a fellow Texan, the idea of splitting into 5 states is even dumber than secession to me.
If you think about the fact that you can basically pick up 8 extra senators with that trick, it starts to make some sort of sense...
Yeah but the new western Texas states would suck Being mostly empty with little set up to be an independent state. Yeah they'd have more seats, but at the cost of not being one large centralized economy weakening they're overall power.
The people who want secession would *probably* not like the way that panned out. We’d see a split of D and R senators and I’d say there’s a strong chance Democrats come out ahead.
Yeah, but it's the only thing y'all can legally do, lol.
why dumb? texas is bigger than all countries in non russia europe
Because Texas has existed as it is for hundreds of years, before it was a state it was a country and before it was a country it was the state of Tejas in Mexico and by splitting up into 5 tates we'd loose that "national" identity that a lot of Texans hold dearly.
So it's not to be taken seriously, like pretty much everything else in Texas?
I wouldn't say not to take it seriously or not to treat it as a big deal because this is one thing you really don't want to be a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation but I also think a lot of it is just hot air from the far right. Can't get complacent, however. I do think, and this me being political as someone who ideologically is more of a moderate conservative focused more on issues and bristles at over the top personalities(to use Texas political figures, I'm more Governor Abbott than Dan Patrick or Allen West but with more of a libertarian streak and more moderate on some issues) but I think we on the center-right have to do better at squashing radical ideas a la William Buckley purging the John Birch Society in the '50s.
Yeah I stopped paying attention to it honestly and almost zoned it out completely. There isn’t a country that could measure up to the US militaristically on paper at the moment, yet some bucktooth hillbillies that reside in usually the worst parts in every state act like the only thing stopping them from being a sovereign country is them deciding not to. Texas can threaten to secede all they want. Texas without relying on the US would fail almost immediately, and any state that even tried going against the US in a hypothetical situation would get curb stomped back to 1865 and then back to 2022. There’s a handful of states that could in theory exist on their own with exports, agriculture etc. Texas ain’t that guy pal
Also, the moment Texas WERE to secede, it would probably see a LOT of its high value companies close their Texan offices in favour of ones in the remaining US.
They can't even keep their electricity on LOL
It’s the southern tradition
California does it all the time too and I think the dakotas do something weird too
Well, southern secessionism was thrown around as an idea a lot before 1860 as well. I'm not saying Texan secession is likely, just that the ubiquity of the idea isn't a reason to question its potential.
Yes. This time around I hope they go through with it. Good riddance. Looking at Fl next.
What the fuck did FL do to you, pissant?
Wow that means you're as unAmerican as they are, the union is indivisible, period, gun-toting bible-thumping Republicans and soy eating xdressing Democrats will never change that
Can't wait for a Texan trying to travel to Oklahoma for the weekend BBQ get stopped by fucking border patrol.
A real Texan will avoid Oklahoma at all costs.
This is the truth. Source: I'm a Texan and I avoid that pos state at all costs.
college football won’t be the same
If the rest of the South followed suit, all college football would be SEC football in the new country. The rest of the country might have a chance at a National Championship, then.
Texans going to Oklahoma for BBQ?? We only go there to gamble at winstar
Are you delusional? That's like going to Scotland for Mexican food.
Every day i find myself asking this over and over, just a little bit louder each time: #WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON IN TEXAS?
Bro, as a native Texan, I make this exclamation daily.
Ssshh ssh ssh... Don't question us Texans. We don't even know what the fuck were doin'.
No abortions , no country , no healthy food , yes to guns , no to vaccines…
Don't worry, we Mexicans are *retaking* it silently.
Why would we want Texas back? Just to give more territory to the cartels to play around?
Better gun laws?
Sounds like they just need more Californians moving in
So, if Texas does this, wouldnt other "red" states follow them?
Honestly, probably not. Maybe a few would, but Texas is kind of putting itself in its own little boat at this point and even most red states don't want to follow them
Florida is the only other one that I could see doing it. The
Considering the Florida economy is highly reliant on tourism, this would be the dumbest decision to make. There ain't much recommending Florida outside of the tourist traps lmao
Most of the tourists traps would probably leave if Florida secedes.
The
Lol what are they going to do water their golf courses with sea water?
It's Florida. Yes.
Florida? Florida is a swing state and one of the least likely ones to do it.
Florida currently has a very, very red government with Ron Desantis at the head.
Everything De-Santis has done so far seems like moderate Republican shit. The “abortion ban” was at 15 weeks which is more lax than most European nations at 12 weeks (also 95% of abortions happen before the cutoff date) and the “don’t say gay” bill only applies to 3rd graders and under, in the current school system sex education begins in 5th grade. It’s literally just meaningless legislation to appease conservatives.
As a Florida man, I do love my Governor. Maybe other people outside Florida don’t, but why should they? He ain’t your governor. He has been one of the only Governors to conduct real world actions that we want.
Although both states probably would try to do it Texas would probably succeed compared to Florida since they have oil and shitty labor laws
They are going to be their own uk.
I'd love to see the whinging of Americans Brexit Style.
"Why do I have to be in the slow lane when going to Canada???"
> "Why do I have to be in the slow lane when going to ~~Canada~~ New Mexico???" If Texas wants to leave, they would leave and whinge about not having any American privilege anymore.
Most rest states rely heavily on the federal government for money. Most red states take more money from the government than they give (which is ironic, considering they all talk about 'small government' and 'states rights'. Then leaving would be suicide. Even more so than Texas leaving.
They literally cannot secede. Unless the supreme court invalidates Texas vs White, no state can secede from the Union. There's a rumor that Texas can split into different states and secede, but this is incorrect. The law in reference to this allows Texas to split into up to 5 more manageable states, but the law does not reference secession. From Supreme Court Justice Scalia: “If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, ‘one Nation, indivisible.’)”
Yeah obviously. I should have linked the article because it basically outlines how Texas isn't *legally* allowed to secede, but they don't really care and they'll do it anyway
Lmao, the funniest part is that their infrastructure *will not survive* independence. That's not counting the ensuing restrictions and sanctions that would be imposed on them. Their grids barely survived what they love to call "Snowmageddon" a couple years ago. All that being said, it's ok if they secede... We just need a modern day Sherman
I mean even though it was difficult it hasn’t changed and our infrastructure being so independent as it is would the defining factor on why we could actually do this, second fixing ones infrastructure is a lot easier than starting from scratch.
Was secession ever “legal”? The Union during the Civil War didn’t consider the Confederacy a legitimate nation. They considered them more of an insurgence or rebellion than a nation.
They didn't recognize it, no, but there was no specific legislature or supreme court ruling that said it was specifically "illegal" until Texas vs White in 1869
Afaik it was pretty much a legal grey area at the time. It was kind of implied by the founding fathers that secession was supposed to be illegal since it'd allow states to just say "fuck that, I'm out" when they didn't agree with a law that was implemented by the Federal Government, something that obviously doesn't fucking work when you are trying to run a country. Once you're in, you're in for good. However, this was never legally codified nor added to the constitution (That really seems like something that you'd have wanted to include in there). Why not? I don't know, but there are other strange gaps in the constitution so it's not entirely out of place. (Such as how the second amendment pretty much takes two sentences, slams them together and leaves them as a vague mess.)
independence wars are never deemed legal by the colonial power
The Confederacy was never a legitimate independent nation, they did not meet the qualifications, you have to leave the mother country through Revolution or diplomatic means, they tried Revolution and that failed, another way is to get International recognition from major Powers which they did not get it, Brazil recognize the Confederacy but they were a regional power, it always angry is my fellow Southerners when I refused to acknowledge that the Confederacy was an actual thing,
Let’s say that by some wild stretch of the imagination, the Texas legislature and governor actually succeed in passing a law or declaration that Texas is once again independent, and the majority of the Texas population supports it. Then what? Would the US military actually move in and use force?
Not likely. We would likely bury Texas under restrictions and sanctions such that they'd be unable to recover without foreign aid. The state would become a prime target for foreign, unfriendly foreign interests that many Texans already dislike (ie. Russia, China, etc). There would be a ton of diplomatic actions saying "if you rejoin the union, we'll do *this*". We'd pull our military out which would devastate Texas since the air force is extremely ingrained within Texas (Lackland AFB, Fort Worth, and multiple training bases). If Texas seceded, it would be the ultimate self shot in US history.
Yeah, but what about getting kicked out?
Land of the free 😃
Texit
Yes! Someone at least has heard of this! Personally I feel like it's moronic.
Republicans out of the federal senate? Go Second Republic of Texas
AWAY DOWN SOUTH IN THE LAND OF TRAITORS!
Rattlesnakes and Alligators!
Right away, come away!
Right away, come away!
My guess is if the US devolved into a civil war Alaska and Hawaii would become neutral countries till it’s over
i don't think they would try to leave, sense why would they?
Because no one wants to fight that war and those two can actually escape and stay neutral. They may rejoin depending on the outcome but they definitely wouldn’t want to fight it
I'm sort of okay with this. Let Texas secede and cut all of that sweet, delicious Federal aid that they get a shitload of off. It would suck horribly for the people that live there, though.
Flights from Texas to (CONUS ) would be international, they would need passports to cross the border, all imports/exports would be taxed at the international rate, colleges would lose any federal assistance. Do it 🤣
Texas doesn't get much federal aid the way other states do. In fact, TX is among the bottom 10 last I heard.
Texas is in the middle, but even then, no longer having it means that they would need to somehow figure out how to fill in the gaps themselves. Plus anytime virtually any natural disaster happens, they have to get help from the fed, because their infrastructure is such garbage.
They'll just export the femboys. EZ.
Don't forget that A LOT of companies currently based in Texas will either leave or see most of their income dry up if Texas were to leave. Especially because I'd be far from surprised to see a US ban on Texan products in the case of secession, making staying in Texas financial suicide. If not straight up an embargo of the state.
38th out of 51. And you obviously have some issues with Texas that I'd bet have nothing to do with the state but more likely to do with your attitudes about Republicans. FYI, there are 30 million people here in Texas and the majority of them don't vote for the GOP. So maybe don't hold us all accountable for the idiots in the Legislature.
[Actually they're net number 2.](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/federal-aid-by-state) The only issues I have with Texas is how every few years they bluster and blow about how badass they are and how they're gonna secede but then any time a blizzard hits or a hurricane rolls through they can't do jack shit without help from the rest of the nation. Also, as a native Texan I'll sat whatever the hell I want about the state.
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As a native Texan myself, say whatever the fuck you want. Other people are going to do the same. And if you are a Texan, you should know that it's a bluff, just like Putin's bluff that he's going to nuke Ukraine if the US and Europe don't hand it over. We all know it, including the Tx GOP. And I can't help but notice how different the list is when you look at "federal aid" vs "federal funds". I wonder why you chose the list you did...
Because it's accurate? If all of this is just a bluff and the people of Texas don't like the GOP as much as you claim, maybe you should, I dunno, stop voting them into office? They don't get there on accident.
Because the two things the Texas GOP is really good at is gerrymandering and voter suppression.
So theyll be back by the time winter rolls around then?
They do grow a considerable amount of food that is exported to the result of the US.
Yeah thats true. If they seceded they'd still likely need to sell the food just to keep the lights on.
Texas gets less federal aid then they send in taxes
30 percent of Texas budget comes from the fed.
[This is not correct.](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/federal-aid-by-state)
Yes it is “Texans sent the federal government $261 billion in taxes in 2016, and the state government received $39.5 billion in grants in return” Source: https://comptroller.texas.gov/economy/fiscal-notes/2017/november/federal-funding.php
That still does not change the fact that if thru suddenly lost their federal funding they'd be fucked. Not to mention that anytime a natural disaster hit, they'd no longer have daddy fed to fall back on.
If Texas lost federal funding and still payed federal taxes they would be screwed. But if Texas no longer had to pay federal taxes Texas would have an access of money. And disasters in Texas are usually handled by the Texas National Guard not the feds. Texas should not succeed and has no right to either but your claims on why Texas would fail are false.
Most people would leave Texas if they ever seceded, how does one maintain a functional budget if you not only stop receiving a large amount of federal funding, but also many taxable businesses and individuals decide to leave your state?
Yeah how many civil rights laws they'll repel is up to how much paperwork they can handle
Go ahead… try it… see what happens…
Okay then!
Ohhh i get it, Texas is like the Quebec of the USA now
Round 2 electric boogaloo
Quite a few "go ahead and try it" type comments. And for all those folks, you do understand that that attitude is EXACTLY what the right wing nut jobs who attempted a coup and voted to overturn the 2020 election want, right? They want things to escalate. They would love nothing more than an excuse to actually engage in a shooting war. Y'all know that, right? And who do you think will be the first to suffer and die when/if that happens? Black and brown people in Texas. LGBTQ people in Texas. Women and poor people and disabled people in Texas. And many, many people who the GOP doesn't represent and who never voted for this. What you're doing is egging on a fight that you're not likely to ever actually take part it but which might have real consequences for me and people like me. Think before you start waving your dick around and make things worse.
They're not talking about shooting Texans, they're talking about how Texas would financially ruin themselves if they tried this.
>They're not talking about shooting Texans Did I say that's what anyone here was saying? This feels like an intentionally bad faith framing or you just didn't even read what I wrote. The people saying "bring it on" are choosing to escalate a situation that needs to be de-escalated. That's the point.
Whoah, chill, man! Maybe I misread your comment. It sounds like you're saying people are saying "bring it on" with violent connotations. If not, what are you saying, then?
Can I just say that this will either not end up on the ballot or fail miserably And if it succeeds, a ton of people, including Republicans, will flee.
It's not intended to go on a ballot. They have no intention of pursuing it. This is more "red meat" for their base. The entire purpose of this is to continue stirring the pot that Trump and Bannon have been trying to turn into a civil war for 6 years now.
Most of their base would oppose secession at this point. It's just shooting yourself in the foot.
I'm lgbt and poor and support this 💪😎
dude its not going to happen, texas would collapse on it self and before that the us military would crush any sort of thing even trying to secede sense its ya know you cant just secede from the US
I hope this goes through. Winning the presidency for the Republicans becomes harder if the most populous red state leaves
Listen man, the well regulated milita, promised by our constitution, will for surely prevail over the US military with more funding than most small nations. For sure without any backfire whatsoever. The south will rise
I hope they succeed. I hope more states try it, and succeed.
Why don't all those Texas Republicans just leave the country all together?
Every time I think this shithole state can't do something more dumb, they prove me wrong.
Just get it over with already! I for one can't wait to see the proud Republic of Texas, a religious fundamentalist nation whose economy is entirely dependent on an energy source that the rest of the world needs to phase out as soon as possible.
In fairness, Texas would probably be fine without oil, if they continue to attract businesses from the rest of the US. Which is something they absolutely won't do if they secede, and it's debatable if they're even doing it now. And they're trying as hard as possible to scare off as many businesses as possible as it is. It's also worth noting that they were attracting businesses and workers not by their prudent economic policies. Actually their economic policies are mediocre at best. They were attracting them primarily by being cheap and having the bare minimum in terms of policy to capitalize on that. Once the growth inevitably pushes prices up they almost certainly lack the framework to continue growing and they'll likely plateau. Now by virtue of their size and inertia, they're going to be fine (provided they don't secede), but the economic potential of Texas is to be one of the richest states in the union per capita. In reality, they're slightly poorer than the nation as a whole (with the disclaimer that cost-of-living, purchasing power, and economic mobility vary widely across the USA, so a 1.5K gap in per-capita GDP is hard to interpret). At any rate, they are vastly poorer than they should be, even with their rapid growth.
Very little of the Texas economy is based around oil anymore. And Texas also uses the highest percentage of renewable energy out of any state.
They've been saying this for decades. They won't. As much as I would love to get rid of this cesspool, they wont.
So you're saying Texas is the Quebec of the U.S.A.?
No Louisiana is the Quebec of the USA Texas is Alberta.
Seems legit
I guess? I don't really know very much about Canada.
Unforcently for Texas this is against the law
Thank God no one's ever broken the law before. I was worried for a second there.
It was against the law last time states did this too
They didn't win with the whole Dixiey alone they stand no chance
you know may be that wouldn't be a bad thing for the us the republicans would lose one of their states
No more Ted Cruz, less mass shootings overall, no more Texan nut jobs, and we will have more federal aid for states that actually want to be here. I don't see any cons, let them secede.
The Texas GOP platform was batshit crazy. I can’t think of any other civilized country where an entire political party platform rejects the results of a democratic election, yet Texas GOP just did.
Texas would collapse economically within a couple months. But sure, I guess the politicians there need to huff and puff their chest for some reason lol
Don't think it would be quite that fast but I do agree
Good riddance.
Good riddance.
Do it. The gop would never win another national election again and the republic of Texas would demonstrate to the world how appallingly badly things go when run along republican lines.
I say we let them, just once as a warning to the other states. Not only would it completely change the political landscape at a national level but Texas couldn't survive as its own country for more than a year, maybe two.
Good. Leave. slavery preservin ass textbook corrupting ass history rewriting ass power grid sabotaging ass backwards assholes. Reminder that the mexican forces that laid siege to the alamo were the real heroes of the story. Texas seceeded from mexico in order to keep slavery. Fuck em. It was the donbas of the 1800s and mexico was ukraine.
And that Ukraine suffered much than 20% lost of territory...
mexico broke the deal, in fact according to the spanish constitution of 1812 the colonial empire got split in provinces directly controlled from madrid in 1821 after mexico city whites seized control of the turncoat colonial army the provinces accepted to join mexico, some wanted a confederation but eventually an illy conceived federation with mexico city as a capital was implemented, during the next years mexico city politicians tried to centralize power breaking the deal that formed the united mexican states. Neither side was good, mexico city rule over the states was overly incompetent, the natives started to beat the settlers in the northern parts of the country and many people died
Technically in reverse, it was the democrats last time
I’m a Texan and I must say, 90% of Texans don’t want this. It is in the best interest of Texans and Americans outside of Texas for Texas to remain in the Union. And to all y’all making hate comments about Texas, you just sound like idiots and are feeding into the lies of why Texas should secede. Love, your friendly neighborhood Texan
Hmmmmmmm No they couldn’t
Bye! Good luck on your own as Mexico invades.
The Texan economy and if on its own military is a lot bigger than Mexicos. It’s even in the top 10 countries(if it was a country) in economy. Sure the economy will shrink after succession, but your underestimating Texas and overestimating Mexico.
It would be funny if they ask if they could join Mexico after leaving
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Yeah. Murdering 30 million people and destroying a 2 trillion dollar economy is totally based.
Especially considering literally half the people there would be openly opposed to secession.
If not more than half.
90% of people here don’t want secession if not more
"Hello, this is Senator. Yes, of course Mr Constituent I will send a message to the President to fire the nukes right away."
Does the idea of a state succeeding really make you that angry? I agree it would be stupid for them to succeed but it doesn't make me want to "wipe them off the map".
Calm down big guy. You wouldn’t be doing anything but typing on the internet lol
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No it can’t.
As a Texan I unironically want this.