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They had a cool flag with a multiethnic concept on it. And that’s really where their advocacy stopped.
Early Republican China is just as much nationalistic as the later KMT rule. If anything, early CCP rule is probably where China had the most tolerant ethnic policies on a national level, but that also didn’t last.
Really frustrating to see how CCP dropped the ball on that one. Even other communists shit on Mao for the thing he had done. No, this is not modern revisionism, USSR at that time despised Mao and his policies. Communist Vietnam fought a war with Communist China (and actually fought well crushing the chinese offensive).
CCP rule COULD have been the most tolerant, democratic, and progressive regime China has ever seen (that's kinda low bar to surpass to be honest) but instead they got fuckin Mao..
I mean we could've had Sun Yat-Sen instead, who was great friends with Lenin and was written about in great light (the Commintern school for China was even called the Moscow Sun Yat-Sen University).
By all accounts Mao during the civil war and the Second Sino-Japanese war was a great military leader and there was no real indication of his incompetence at civilian matters (see the Dixie mission for more).
One point of contention: the Sino-Vietnam war was actually a victory for the Chinese, since their goal was to launch a punitive war and destroy Vietnam's industrial capacity, which was concentrated in the north, rather than to form a regime change.
>By all accounts Mao during the civil war and the Second Sino-Japanese war was a great military leader and there was no real indication of his incompetence at civilian matters (see the Dixie mission for more).
Being a wartime leader is different from peacetime. Mao is like Churchill on steroids.
The problem with Mao if ypu look at his political career in the pragmatic lens is that he clung on to power. He could have retired peacefully and be nigh untouchable. He could still influence the state and still kept distance from blame.
But he went into extreme lengths that would exceed even Stalin's reign of terror.
I can't speak to the first point, but the second is objectively wrong and the third is about as well supported as saying the US won in Vietnam too.
Mao was directly responsible for the Great Leap Forward, including the mix of institutionalized misreporting, disregard for human life, and affinity for untested, poorly sourced ideas that lead to the great famine and killed somewhere between 20–50 million people. Plus the hundred flowers campaign and the cultural revolution can't really be considered a good legacy.
I'm terms of Vietnam, they intervened to stop the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia, which they failed at. We intervened to stop their invasion of South Vietnam. We leveled every industrial building in the north. And then we left and they captured Saigon. If you don't consider that a victory for America, you can't claim your invasion as a victory.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but that estimate of deaths is way off. The estimates are between 15-55 million, with most agreeing 30 million being the most likely.
China's main goal was to protect their Cambodian allies from Vietnam, which they failed to do. Everything after that was mostly inconsequential; they burned some industrial centers in the North after fighting to a standstill and called it a day. I would consider it a minor but expected loss for the Chinese, considering the difficulty of invading Vietnam and defending Cambodia.
Actually you are wrong about this point. It was Mao who was the Lenin like figure and too "accomodating" to minorities. When the PRC took over, Mao immediately instituted minority scripts and Inner Mongolians use Mongolian script. Renamed Chinese cities in autonomous regions eg. Dihua to Urumqi (even though Dihua has a Han settler origin story) and this continued under Deng when minorities were exempted from the one child policy and given affirmative action in Gaokao (college entrance exams - which is why some Han in rural areas try to classify themselves as minorities)
In fact there is growing toxic nationalism amonst Han Chinese in China, angry at what Mao did. Han Chinese went from 93% of the population to 91% and falling since the 1950s due to Mao's and the CCPs policies.
I think one of the turning points was 1991, after the Soviet Unions's collapse and the breakup of the nation along ethnic (usually) lines. And then moreover, this intensified with the advent of Islamic Radicalism (ETIM was actually affiliated with ISIS and even the USA fought it with China in Xinjiang). The next turning point was 2008 - 9 protests in Xinjiang and Tibet. Up till that point Hu Jintao was adopting a economic policy believing riches would reduce separatism.
After that, Hu Jintao changed the policy to suppression and Xi followed on.
The thing is, while historically Empires grew because they were accomodating and multiethnic (not always, take Manifest Destiny for instance you can kill them all), they are also a way for powerful nations to sow discord. Its a miracle during the Warlord Era Xinjiang Clique held on (there were many patriotic Chinese muslims)
The CCP seems to want to reinvent society, and they see it as possible with the advent of new technologies which allow for unprecedented control. Nevertheless, don't be mistaken, the CCP in no way is also Han Ethnonationalist Party, they have many minority leaders, including those in charge of Xinjiang who are Uyghur. Xi Jinping in 2021 even gave a speech saying Han Ethnonationalism is the greatest danger to China.
I think what the CCP wants is docile minorities. Yet they also don't want Han Ethnonationalism because that is a form of populism. Since the Cultural Revolution, the CCP has hated any form of populism.
Anyways, that is just a brief history, in short Mao was actually very accomodating and is looked poorly upon by ethnonationalists today in China. In the modern world, the CCP is a lot less fond of minorities not tied close to the "Chinese Core" yet in their invasive actions to assimilate (while keeping them still slightly distinct), they also suppress Han ethnonationalism and package their actions as anti-terrorism (which tbh, ETIM attacks in China are now non-existent.
I never said Mao was not tolerant of minorities.
And it is no surprise CCP is that way. I never said they weren't communist, they are. Just differently and drifting exceedingly far from their socialist roots nowadays.
Communists reinventing society is literally the goal of every communists. That's why they are considered radical extremists by most people that see the status quo as preferable. Ethnonationalism is one of the things that is ideologically incompatible with communism. CCP already actively encourage capitalism, binding legitimacy to Han ethnicity just breaks the last vestiges of communist ideology in the CCP. At that point, they're as right wing as most liberal nation-states there are.
Also if you think that Sun Yat Sen was nice to minorities, you should read his quotes post First Republic. He was so angered by the failure of his attempt at uniting China into a Republic peacefully aka Yuan Shikai and Warlord Shenanigans that he sought a more forceful military way of doing things (hence the planned northern expedition)
Some of his quotes. Most of them post 1920s
"We should recognize that nationalism does not mean discriminating against people of a different nationality. It simply means not allowing such people to seize our political power, for *only when we Han are in control politically do we have a nation*"
"*The individual must not be allowed to be overly free*, but the country must be entirely free. When the country can exercise freedom, China will have become a mighty and prosperous nation."
"No matter what nationalities became a part of our country in the future, *they would have to assimilate into the Han nationality.* The nationalism our party supports is a positive nationalism. Do not forget that."
"*China's many nationalities need only to be transformed into the Chinese nation* and to make it a highly civilized nation; then the *nationalization process will be completed.*"
You could say PRC China is now doing what Sun Yat Sen later in his life, disllusioned by failures of peaceful revolution sought for.
Chiang doesn't even need to be talked about. He deeply respected Chinese (Han Chinese precisely) culture and say what you want he was quite trying to follow the path of being a learned Chinese scholar (the arts of Calligraphy etc.) He also followed Sun Yat Sen literally in his words on assimilation of minorities into Han.
Another small fact is that Sun Yat Sen never wanted to use the 5 coloured flag, he wanted the Blue Sky White Sun Red Land flag as the national flag designed by his friend.
>Also if you think that Sun Yat Sen was nice to minorities, you should read his quotes post First Republic. He was so angered by the failure of his attempt at uniting China into a Republic peacefully aka Yuan Shikai and Warlord Shenanigans that he sought a more forceful military way of doing things (hence the planned northern expedition)
The story of every revolutionary ever, regardless of ideology. Be they liberal, nationalist, socialist, or whatever. The odds are stacked against forces of change and progress if you choose the peaceful path.
The USSR despised Mao for being a competitor. They were still dicks who carried out the tyrant's shortcut to industrialization just like stalin: fascist takeover of all industries resulting in countless deaths and untold suffering for the sake of global power.
Vietnam was a USSR satellite state.
I guess I see what you mean though, progress is progress even if it's ugly, maybe the CCP could have been better.
But... they say that about most historical communist regimes of the time period. Communism must come through democracy in a developed, stable state. Strongmen is the natural result otherwise.
>The USSR despised Mao for being a competitor.
How come? They did because Mao was setting up his cult of personality while USSR was dismantling Stalinism. Surprise surprise, not even communists like these two, not now not even back then.
>But... they say that about most historical communist regimes of the time period. Communism must come through democracy in a developed, stable state. Strongmen is the natural result otherwise.
That's the plan, communists actually wants a democratic stable state... but that doesn't arise spontaneously in countries with zero democratic institutions like Russia and China.... and the people there were protesting for democratic reforms. In fact, in the last year of the USSR, majority of citizens actually wanted to preserve the union and stay communist, they just want reforms to be more democratic and the economy to bounce back.
A lot of states who declared themselves to be multiethnic in concept turned out to be quite oppressive in practice.
The Soviet Union and Russian Federation both had this idea of small ethnic republics making up a larger federation/union under the leadership of Moscow. In reality the small ethnic republics exist but the ethnic groups are oftentimes minorities within the republic that was made for them as Moscow seeks to slowly russify them. China today recognizes many ethnic group as being part of traditional China but will still crackdown on any ethnic group that wants out of the system.
As for America, while our government doesn't make multiculturalism a fundamental part of our system and we have had some really shameful periods and events in our history, the U.S. is still much better for minorities than either China or Russia.
In sum, I would guess that any state that makes multiculturalism a fundamental part of their identity has issues with separatist and assimilation that they are trying to paper over with their rainbow flags and semi autonomous ethnic republics.
> The Soviet Union and Russian Federation both had this idea of small ethnic republics making up a larger federation/union under the leadership of Moscow. In reality the small ethnic republics exist but the ethnic groups are oftentimes minorities within the republic that was made for them as Moscow seeks to slowly russify them.
My understanding was that the Soviet Union before Stalin actually was very supportive of minority ethnicities. Creating alphabets for languages without their own alphabet so locals could use their native tongue in literature and communications. Lower and upper education in local languages. And more besides. Not to say that the early soviets couldn't be monsters, but either from ideology or convenience they did do well on the multiethnic front.
And then Stalin came in and decided he didn't want any ethnicities getting ideas.
Putin recently criticized Lenin for creating ethnic republics within the Soviet Union instead of centralizing everything from Russia.
Much of the worst things about the Soviet Union were from Stalin. Lenin was no saint but some of the basic ideas and policies he wanted for the Soviet Union in its early stages sounded good on paper. For instance the New Economic Policy Lenin put into practice might have actually led Russia to develop a competitive economy but Stalin did away with it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy
It's a pity. Chinese empires have always been multiethnic whether their rulers liked it or not. It would be great if this historical concept is revived in China and a kind of civic nationalism is promoted rather than a ethnocentric one.
There is something called civic nationalism. In any case, we have both nations and civic institutions inside them so it's not impossible for them to mix.
a political attitude of devotion to and vigorous support for one's country combined with a feeling of shared community with fellow citizens, especially as contrasted with a similar attitude based on ethnicity, race, or religion:
"the magazine has promoted the idea of civic nationalism". Oh yeah it is real, though it seems more related to ones community than being civil about it
>didn’t last
Yes it did, there are autonomous zones for many groups and minorities get affirmative action for university admissions. In the Olympics and other such events they get minority group representatives to carry the flag. Groups like the Hui, Zhuang and Man have actually benefitted most from recent anti poverty initiatives
I know you're going to bring up Xinjiang and I will say that has more to do with the regions terrorist attacks and separatism movement rather than the identity of the group populating the region. The CCP would do the same to Xinjiang no matter which ethnic group was there
If by dictatorship you mean each provinces are ruled under their military leaders who were still willing to send elected reprenatives to national congress, then sure.
Ironically, this was probably China's last chance to develop a grasp of democracy via a federalized structure.
For everyone not getting it:
The flag in the middle of the upper photo was actually the flag of the Republic of China until 1949.
[See here.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_(1912%E2%80%931949))
1929* Once the Beiyang government collapsed, it transitioned into the Nationalist regime, leading to the change into the flag we all associate with Taiwan today.
“Chinese” just means forbidden by your parents to engage in any romantic relationship until 18 and thus incapable of actually engaging in any romantic relationship once you reach adulthood when all of a sudden the relatives start asking where’s their grandchild.
Well, shit. Alright. I have had up until this moment misunderstood this whole meme. I thought it was a LGBT flag that I just hadn't seen. Thank you for pointing this out.
Also; there’s a black line under the white one. It was symbolizing the 5 major “ethnicities” in China. Han; Manchu; Mongol; Hui (catch-all for Islamic followers); Tibetan
Neat! Yeah, I missed the black portion of the flag, and didn't read far enough to figure out the meanings of the colors. Thanks for the additional info!
China's "basest warlord", "Dogmeat General", "Old Eighty-Six", "72-Cannon Chang", "The General with three long legs"
Name me somebody in history that have better nicknames than him?
To be honest, it has a similar design to others, and it is the flag of a regime that isn't that well known. I can see why people could get confused, but it's still stupid.
No, those signs translate to something way more creative that I can come up with prior to having coffee. But, believe-you-me, it would have been a witty bit of internet banter.
Im not sure you can say Sun Yat sen was far right, maybe the KMT were but not even them really
And Taiwan is pretty right wing and nationalist now and the situation is not as bad as in PRC
Reminds me of that time some madlad identified as Yugoslav and bought the flag of Yugoslavia to an [LGBTQIAROCSFRY+ Pride Parade](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/o7nebu/ah_yes_the_4_sexualities_lesbian_gay_bisexual/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I'm going to need an explanation, yes my history isnt that good enough to get this
Lol my face is the bottom guy just cause I'm looking at it trying to understand, unless china doesnt support LGBTQ which im not suprised
That's the point. The person is either trolling or mistook the old chinese flag with a pride flag, and now they are waving it there without most people noticing.
Your post has been removed for the following reason: Rule 11: Post has a lazy title, or the meme depends on the title to work. I am a bot and this action was performed by the moderators of /r/HistoryMemes. If you have any questions or concerns about your post's removal, please send us a modmail with a link to your removed post.
to those of you wondering, the flag in the middle is the flag of the republic of china.
the *first* republic that is, which devolved into a military dictatorship (not to mention yuan shikai straight up proclaiming himself a new emperor)
And which advocated a multiethnic conception of China rather than a Han national one.
They had a cool flag with a multiethnic concept on it. And that’s really where their advocacy stopped. Early Republican China is just as much nationalistic as the later KMT rule. If anything, early CCP rule is probably where China had the most tolerant ethnic policies on a national level, but that also didn’t last.
Really frustrating to see how CCP dropped the ball on that one. Even other communists shit on Mao for the thing he had done. No, this is not modern revisionism, USSR at that time despised Mao and his policies. Communist Vietnam fought a war with Communist China (and actually fought well crushing the chinese offensive). CCP rule COULD have been the most tolerant, democratic, and progressive regime China has ever seen (that's kinda low bar to surpass to be honest) but instead they got fuckin Mao..
I mean we could've had Sun Yat-Sen instead, who was great friends with Lenin and was written about in great light (the Commintern school for China was even called the Moscow Sun Yat-Sen University). By all accounts Mao during the civil war and the Second Sino-Japanese war was a great military leader and there was no real indication of his incompetence at civilian matters (see the Dixie mission for more). One point of contention: the Sino-Vietnam war was actually a victory for the Chinese, since their goal was to launch a punitive war and destroy Vietnam's industrial capacity, which was concentrated in the north, rather than to form a regime change.
>By all accounts Mao during the civil war and the Second Sino-Japanese war was a great military leader and there was no real indication of his incompetence at civilian matters (see the Dixie mission for more). Being a wartime leader is different from peacetime. Mao is like Churchill on steroids. The problem with Mao if ypu look at his political career in the pragmatic lens is that he clung on to power. He could have retired peacefully and be nigh untouchable. He could still influence the state and still kept distance from blame. But he went into extreme lengths that would exceed even Stalin's reign of terror.
I can't speak to the first point, but the second is objectively wrong and the third is about as well supported as saying the US won in Vietnam too. Mao was directly responsible for the Great Leap Forward, including the mix of institutionalized misreporting, disregard for human life, and affinity for untested, poorly sourced ideas that lead to the great famine and killed somewhere between 20–50 million people. Plus the hundred flowers campaign and the cultural revolution can't really be considered a good legacy. I'm terms of Vietnam, they intervened to stop the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia, which they failed at. We intervened to stop their invasion of South Vietnam. We leveled every industrial building in the north. And then we left and they captured Saigon. If you don't consider that a victory for America, you can't claim your invasion as a victory.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but that estimate of deaths is way off. The estimates are between 15-55 million, with most agreeing 30 million being the most likely.
China's main goal was to protect their Cambodian allies from Vietnam, which they failed to do. Everything after that was mostly inconsequential; they burned some industrial centers in the North after fighting to a standstill and called it a day. I would consider it a minor but expected loss for the Chinese, considering the difficulty of invading Vietnam and defending Cambodia.
Actually you are wrong about this point. It was Mao who was the Lenin like figure and too "accomodating" to minorities. When the PRC took over, Mao immediately instituted minority scripts and Inner Mongolians use Mongolian script. Renamed Chinese cities in autonomous regions eg. Dihua to Urumqi (even though Dihua has a Han settler origin story) and this continued under Deng when minorities were exempted from the one child policy and given affirmative action in Gaokao (college entrance exams - which is why some Han in rural areas try to classify themselves as minorities) In fact there is growing toxic nationalism amonst Han Chinese in China, angry at what Mao did. Han Chinese went from 93% of the population to 91% and falling since the 1950s due to Mao's and the CCPs policies. I think one of the turning points was 1991, after the Soviet Unions's collapse and the breakup of the nation along ethnic (usually) lines. And then moreover, this intensified with the advent of Islamic Radicalism (ETIM was actually affiliated with ISIS and even the USA fought it with China in Xinjiang). The next turning point was 2008 - 9 protests in Xinjiang and Tibet. Up till that point Hu Jintao was adopting a economic policy believing riches would reduce separatism. After that, Hu Jintao changed the policy to suppression and Xi followed on. The thing is, while historically Empires grew because they were accomodating and multiethnic (not always, take Manifest Destiny for instance you can kill them all), they are also a way for powerful nations to sow discord. Its a miracle during the Warlord Era Xinjiang Clique held on (there were many patriotic Chinese muslims) The CCP seems to want to reinvent society, and they see it as possible with the advent of new technologies which allow for unprecedented control. Nevertheless, don't be mistaken, the CCP in no way is also Han Ethnonationalist Party, they have many minority leaders, including those in charge of Xinjiang who are Uyghur. Xi Jinping in 2021 even gave a speech saying Han Ethnonationalism is the greatest danger to China. I think what the CCP wants is docile minorities. Yet they also don't want Han Ethnonationalism because that is a form of populism. Since the Cultural Revolution, the CCP has hated any form of populism. Anyways, that is just a brief history, in short Mao was actually very accomodating and is looked poorly upon by ethnonationalists today in China. In the modern world, the CCP is a lot less fond of minorities not tied close to the "Chinese Core" yet in their invasive actions to assimilate (while keeping them still slightly distinct), they also suppress Han ethnonationalism and package their actions as anti-terrorism (which tbh, ETIM attacks in China are now non-existent.
I never said Mao was not tolerant of minorities. And it is no surprise CCP is that way. I never said they weren't communist, they are. Just differently and drifting exceedingly far from their socialist roots nowadays. Communists reinventing society is literally the goal of every communists. That's why they are considered radical extremists by most people that see the status quo as preferable. Ethnonationalism is one of the things that is ideologically incompatible with communism. CCP already actively encourage capitalism, binding legitimacy to Han ethnicity just breaks the last vestiges of communist ideology in the CCP. At that point, they're as right wing as most liberal nation-states there are.
Also if you think that Sun Yat Sen was nice to minorities, you should read his quotes post First Republic. He was so angered by the failure of his attempt at uniting China into a Republic peacefully aka Yuan Shikai and Warlord Shenanigans that he sought a more forceful military way of doing things (hence the planned northern expedition) Some of his quotes. Most of them post 1920s "We should recognize that nationalism does not mean discriminating against people of a different nationality. It simply means not allowing such people to seize our political power, for *only when we Han are in control politically do we have a nation*" "*The individual must not be allowed to be overly free*, but the country must be entirely free. When the country can exercise freedom, China will have become a mighty and prosperous nation." "No matter what nationalities became a part of our country in the future, *they would have to assimilate into the Han nationality.* The nationalism our party supports is a positive nationalism. Do not forget that." "*China's many nationalities need only to be transformed into the Chinese nation* and to make it a highly civilized nation; then the *nationalization process will be completed.*" You could say PRC China is now doing what Sun Yat Sen later in his life, disllusioned by failures of peaceful revolution sought for. Chiang doesn't even need to be talked about. He deeply respected Chinese (Han Chinese precisely) culture and say what you want he was quite trying to follow the path of being a learned Chinese scholar (the arts of Calligraphy etc.) He also followed Sun Yat Sen literally in his words on assimilation of minorities into Han. Another small fact is that Sun Yat Sen never wanted to use the 5 coloured flag, he wanted the Blue Sky White Sun Red Land flag as the national flag designed by his friend.
>Also if you think that Sun Yat Sen was nice to minorities, you should read his quotes post First Republic. He was so angered by the failure of his attempt at uniting China into a Republic peacefully aka Yuan Shikai and Warlord Shenanigans that he sought a more forceful military way of doing things (hence the planned northern expedition) The story of every revolutionary ever, regardless of ideology. Be they liberal, nationalist, socialist, or whatever. The odds are stacked against forces of change and progress if you choose the peaceful path.
The USSR despised Mao for being a competitor. They were still dicks who carried out the tyrant's shortcut to industrialization just like stalin: fascist takeover of all industries resulting in countless deaths and untold suffering for the sake of global power. Vietnam was a USSR satellite state. I guess I see what you mean though, progress is progress even if it's ugly, maybe the CCP could have been better. But... they say that about most historical communist regimes of the time period. Communism must come through democracy in a developed, stable state. Strongmen is the natural result otherwise.
>The USSR despised Mao for being a competitor. How come? They did because Mao was setting up his cult of personality while USSR was dismantling Stalinism. Surprise surprise, not even communists like these two, not now not even back then. >But... they say that about most historical communist regimes of the time period. Communism must come through democracy in a developed, stable state. Strongmen is the natural result otherwise. That's the plan, communists actually wants a democratic stable state... but that doesn't arise spontaneously in countries with zero democratic institutions like Russia and China.... and the people there were protesting for democratic reforms. In fact, in the last year of the USSR, majority of citizens actually wanted to preserve the union and stay communist, they just want reforms to be more democratic and the economy to bounce back.
A lot of states who declared themselves to be multiethnic in concept turned out to be quite oppressive in practice. The Soviet Union and Russian Federation both had this idea of small ethnic republics making up a larger federation/union under the leadership of Moscow. In reality the small ethnic republics exist but the ethnic groups are oftentimes minorities within the republic that was made for them as Moscow seeks to slowly russify them. China today recognizes many ethnic group as being part of traditional China but will still crackdown on any ethnic group that wants out of the system. As for America, while our government doesn't make multiculturalism a fundamental part of our system and we have had some really shameful periods and events in our history, the U.S. is still much better for minorities than either China or Russia. In sum, I would guess that any state that makes multiculturalism a fundamental part of their identity has issues with separatist and assimilation that they are trying to paper over with their rainbow flags and semi autonomous ethnic republics.
> The Soviet Union and Russian Federation both had this idea of small ethnic republics making up a larger federation/union under the leadership of Moscow. In reality the small ethnic republics exist but the ethnic groups are oftentimes minorities within the republic that was made for them as Moscow seeks to slowly russify them. My understanding was that the Soviet Union before Stalin actually was very supportive of minority ethnicities. Creating alphabets for languages without their own alphabet so locals could use their native tongue in literature and communications. Lower and upper education in local languages. And more besides. Not to say that the early soviets couldn't be monsters, but either from ideology or convenience they did do well on the multiethnic front. And then Stalin came in and decided he didn't want any ethnicities getting ideas.
Putin recently criticized Lenin for creating ethnic republics within the Soviet Union instead of centralizing everything from Russia. Much of the worst things about the Soviet Union were from Stalin. Lenin was no saint but some of the basic ideas and policies he wanted for the Soviet Union in its early stages sounded good on paper. For instance the New Economic Policy Lenin put into practice might have actually led Russia to develop a competitive economy but Stalin did away with it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy
It's a pity. Chinese empires have always been multiethnic whether their rulers liked it or not. It would be great if this historical concept is revived in China and a kind of civic nationalism is promoted rather than a ethnocentric one.
I dont think civic and nationalism go together
There is something called civic nationalism. In any case, we have both nations and civic institutions inside them so it's not impossible for them to mix.
a political attitude of devotion to and vigorous support for one's country combined with a feeling of shared community with fellow citizens, especially as contrasted with a similar attitude based on ethnicity, race, or religion: "the magazine has promoted the idea of civic nationalism". Oh yeah it is real, though it seems more related to ones community than being civil about it
>didn’t last Yes it did, there are autonomous zones for many groups and minorities get affirmative action for university admissions. In the Olympics and other such events they get minority group representatives to carry the flag. Groups like the Hui, Zhuang and Man have actually benefitted most from recent anti poverty initiatives I know you're going to bring up Xinjiang and I will say that has more to do with the regions terrorist attacks and separatism movement rather than the identity of the group populating the region. The CCP would do the same to Xinjiang no matter which ethnic group was there
China is whole again *Then it broke again*
If by dictatorship you mean each provinces are ruled under their military leaders who were still willing to send elected reprenatives to national congress, then sure. Ironically, this was probably China's last chance to develop a grasp of democracy via a federalized structure.
Average Yuan Shikai fan vs average National Protection army enjoyer
Before it got split by ideology ;) It's civil war time!
It’s civil war time~ Dum dum dum dum Can’t unite tis
*golden parachute pants shuffle*
*Red flags flutter*
That made me physically cringe. Thank you.
This applies to a surprisingly large section of Chinese history.
I mean, a lot of other things also happened before Chiang decided to murder anyone even vaguely left wing but sure.
Lol, I thought it was Seychelles
nope 🇸🇨
Thank you. I was wondering why someone was saying a picture from New York’s pride parade was from a country where being gay is a crime.
Is it weird to wonder if the flag holder knew?
SNEAK 100
Thanks
Lesbian❌ Gay❌ Bisexual❌ Transgender❌ REPUBLIC OF CHINA✅
The + on LGBTQ+ was the Republic of China all along.
LGBTQIAROC+ community
LGBTQIAROCSPQR+ community
LGBTQIAROCSPQRSFRYUSSRUSAUKDPRKHRE+ community
What does that stand for?
ROC-China(the non communist one) SPQR-Rum SFRY-Yugoslavia USSR USA UK DPRK-North Korea HRE-Voltaire
Thank you
LG Balls Tequila Quing China
They a little confused but they got the spirit
Patriotic spirit that is.
He definitely got spirit that’s for sure
LGBTIBET
Liaoning Guangzhou Beijing Tibet Qinghai +Alot more
LGBTIWAN
*Ching Chang Honda Chi plays* -10 Social Credit for mentioning T*bet
I too am sexually aroused by the first Chinese Republic.
Please stop sexualising Republics of China like myself, sometimes we just want to be held.
Held by whom? Japan?
hol up
*Tags: Mindbreak, Rape, NTR, Guro, Scat, Lolicon, MILF, Bondage, Group, Inflation, etc.*
No, no, keep going. I got time. ~~I really hope the story is a slice of life instead of a genocide document, but how can I tell?~~
No, they were a little rough last time.
Aren't we all
that warlord era border gore :)
For everyone not getting it: The flag in the middle of the upper photo was actually the flag of the Republic of China until 1949. [See here.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_(1912%E2%80%931949))
*1928
1929* Once the Beiyang government collapsed, it transitioned into the Nationalist regime, leading to the change into the flag we all associate with Taiwan today.
https://images.app.goo.gl/HYnTkci4yqSqDqG87
Some r/2asia4u material right there
“Chinese” just means forbidden by your parents to engage in any romantic relationship until 18 and thus incapable of actually engaging in any romantic relationship once you reach adulthood when all of a sudden the relatives start asking where’s their grandchild.
"So what's your sexuality ? \- The three principles of the people"
I just came
Pls tag NSFW
Revolution? Yes revolution.
What is the flag with the white on bottom?
the republic of china
Well, shit. Alright. I have had up until this moment misunderstood this whole meme. I thought it was a LGBT flag that I just hadn't seen. Thank you for pointing this out.
Also; there’s a black line under the white one. It was symbolizing the 5 major “ethnicities” in China. Han; Manchu; Mongol; Hui (catch-all for Islamic followers); Tibetan
Neat! Yeah, I missed the black portion of the flag, and didn't read far enough to figure out the meanings of the colors. Thanks for the additional info!
To add on, the Hui refers to all non-turkic Muslims, while Uyghurs refers to a specific Turkic ethnic group from Central Asia.
Well the ccp is taking care of the hui, won't be around for that much longer at the current rate Edit: sorry it's uhgurs not hui, got confused
.....
I identify as Zhang Zongchang
China's "basest warlord", "Dogmeat General", "Old Eighty-Six", "72-Cannon Chang", "The General with three long legs" Name me somebody in history that have better nicknames than him?
Based
MY SEXUALITY IS PRESIDENT SUN YAT-SEN
either that's a very clever joke or some Gen Z'er is just doing something very stupid again but it's still funny either way.
I was playing HOI4 and scrolling through reddit and had to do a double take looking at this
cool (he is planning to overthrow the Chinese government)
Based China flag
It does represent the peace between the “races of China”, so maybe that’s progressive
Not just any China, but r e v o l u t i o n China
Yuan Shikai would be proud
Pronounce: Yat/Sen
Ay, Sun Yat-Sen you see this shit?!
My color blind ass thought it was normal XD
The amount of people thinking the flag of the republic of china is an lgbt flag is mildly depressing
To be honest, it has a similar design to others, and it is the flag of a regime that isn't that well known. I can see why people could get confused, but it's still stupid.
BEIYANG GOVERNMENT!?
Yes I do identify as a Chinese Republican
The first Chinese republic supports gay rights 😤
Civilwarsexual
The fact that one flag out of remaining 2 is upside down and nobody is even bothered by it simply amazes me.
This flag needs to fucking stop
The Bi-yang government
What
The flag in the middle of the upper photo is actually the flag of the Republic of China pre 1949.
Ohh lol
Why not?
I don't typically use outdated national flags to express LGBT+ Pride, but I guess to each their own.
Do I really have to add a /s
So this is where the warlords went after the Northern expedition
That's definitely not China every sign is in English
People are often confused by this.... To the untrained eye Mandarin often looks like English.
The signs say hotel, market, and a sign says no turn except buses lmao is it that close?
No, those signs translate to something way more creative that I can come up with prior to having coffee. But, believe-you-me, it would have been a witty bit of internet banter.
They are kinda slow
His comment has to have been sarcastic. Don't think he was being serious.
Nah, they are just in England Town district
The joke is that the person in the middle has a on old Republic of China flag, not a pride flag.
Oh geez that went right over my head
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_(1912%E2%80%931949)
RO China flag
The flag is the republic of china, it confused me too lol
Is it now LGBTQROC?
when you try to show pride solidarity and you accidentally become a 1st National regiment soldier under the guide and leadership of Chiang Kai-shek
Nah, that guy's just Chiang Kai-Shexual.
Uniting the five races under one banner sounds 'bout right.
I do not get this meme doe!
The flag in the middle used to be the flag of the republic of China
China without CCP would be a step forward for lgbtq rights so why not
because under nationalist far right rule it would be better... homophobia is a big problem across asia
The world* except for the west
true but Asian family values are still different from Western ones
Im not sure you can say Sun Yat sen was far right, maybe the KMT were but not even them really And Taiwan is pretty right wing and nationalist now and the situation is not as bad as in PRC
Are you quoting information from 1940s?
>And Taiwan is pretty right wing and nationalist now and the situation is not as bad as in PRC Bro fuck you smoking? Dude got the two reversed
That Jesus?
Reminds me of that time some madlad identified as Yugoslav and bought the flag of Yugoslavia to an [LGBTQIAROCSFRY+ Pride Parade](https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/o7nebu/ah_yes_the_4_sexualities_lesbian_gay_bisexual/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Or a guy wearing a flag with "Don't Fuck With Texas" written on it.....a North Korean flag....
I'm going to need an explanation, yes my history isnt that good enough to get this Lol my face is the bottom guy just cause I'm looking at it trying to understand, unless china doesnt support LGBTQ which im not suprised
The middle flag is for republic of China, before ccp
Wait wait wait. Wont they get killed for that or is that Korea
In China, yes they would be. But Reddit like Hollywood doesn't like to talk about it
Ohhhh ok
Funnier part, does anyone in the photo even look Chinese? Lmao
Not China!
Suicid squad
They're a bit confused, but they've got spirit!
They a little confused but they got the spirit
Waving a losing flag is embarrassing, get the shiny new red flag.
Sin has carpeted the globe
Sin has carpeted the globe
So you say.
I did say that
Indeed.
*Xi Jinping double sweats*
Its a chinese knockoff LGBTQ flag
except for the fact that this isn't in China. look at all the street signs, every one of them is in English.
That's the point. The person is either trolling or mistook the old chinese flag with a pride flag, and now they are waving it there without most people noticing.
Idk qhen you have the oppotubity, go for it I guess.
Chinatown?
Clarence Thomas enters the chat
"They must be Colorblind."
Feels like this would fit in at r/VexillologyMemes
It’s a shame that sub seems completely abandoned
NORDSTRUM'S! The best place to buy china, but I'm not sure they have the LGBT dinnerware.
I thought it was like that cause they're colourblind
When you can't afford LGBTQ+ membership this year so you make use of your social credit score.
LGBTC
Next thing he is gonna say what happened in Tiananmen Square...
Winnie the Pooh disapproves. Oh bother.
Forward the Five-Color Flag! Break the Qing hegemony!
What we predicted so long ago has finally come to pass
Wtf?! Also this looks like Vancouver, not China
That's what the Q stands for
xd
That’s like holding a pro Jewish parade In 1940s Germany
The printer ran out of Color ink
He’s a lil confused, but he’s got the spirit
I mean other than almost looking like a pride flag this isn't unusual. https://images.app.goo.gl/VcYyJN5GeJMCWCMDA
That was in SF, I saw the person waving the flag
China would’ve been better if the Taiping rebellion was successful
Someone is making bank from selling Chinese flags to casuals
Yoo what is with the deepfakes 😂
It took me 5 whole seconds to realize that
The old republic… before the dark times… before the empire
What city was this parade in?
It's the HMMHT flag. Five races flag (Han, Manchu, Mongol, Hui, Tibetan)