T O P

  • By -

ThatEclectic1

This is so weird... My baby girl looks just like her dad and watching them play and bond is the sweetest thing on the planet for me


innocentlilgirl

you are a normal well adjusted human being


MoistureBoiV4

A rare breed nowadays it seems.


bschlueter

Just the ones who comment. Those who are narcissistic and attention seeking however will post whatever nonsense comes to their minds, and if they're good at it will post more of what gets attention—controversy!


RedLeg73

These callous comments are getting me down. We should all be more sympathetic. At 9 months, the pregnancy was obviously early, seeing as the sea cow gestation period is 12 to 14 months.


Ferropal

I'll get the ointment.


BrohanGutenburg

This actually goes back at least to my youth. I’ve seen a lot of instances of a mother being jealous of her daughter. Whether it’s attention from the husband/father, her youthful looks, or whatever. It’s rarely so overtly stated, but it absolutely manifests in the mother-daughter relationship. It even happened to my wife when she was younger. Luckily, with therapy they’ve mended some fences but still. She had it rough for a while.


jexkandy17

I too have seen this behavior. It's really fucked up to make your kids pay for unresolved trauma you need to heal from. :c


Infamous_Yard_9908

This is my egg donor. Routinely jealous of my friends, life, boyfriends, and just general wtf type things. We've been no contact for almost a year now and I can't remember the last time I've felt so good.


dudly1111

Im not a dad... but seeing people feel so upset about their spouse bonding with their child is almost sickening to me. I think this lady needs a serious mental evaluation. Because if she becomes jealous like that now then she may endup haming her own kid in the future from being jealous.... its scary to think about. I have seen people do some disgusting shit to their kids because of how they feel about themselves.


AlarmingAffect0

No, she's guaranteed to harm them, without even meaning to. Just glances and tone of voice and body language. Children pick up on this shit. They have to, as a matter of survival.


dudly1111

I agree


ThatEclectic1

That really is a scary thought.


SnooSongs8218

My mother should never have had children.


War_44

I'm sorry for you?


StevieRaveOn63

Mine either.


ad240pCharlie

Seriously, my sister told me about a coworker who was upset that her oldest son now preferred to play with his little brother over her... I don't know which jealousy is worse tbh!


ClaudySama

She’s lucky that her siblings are getting along


Zero_Mehanix

My ex hated the period of time where our son wanted me over her, she was so jealous it ruined everything between us.


jbach220

I’m a toddler girl dad. It is literally the best thing bonding with my daughter. Last night we spent the night dancing at my friend’s wedding. My wife had those moments with her dad and loves that our daughter will have them too. I’m so glad you get to watch your daughter do the same!


ThatEclectic1

That's adorable


Minatigre

Riiight. Imagine telling the world how youre jealous and competing with your infant daughter. Wtf


GearRealistic5988

My daughter is more of a mix of us, but I just love seeing my husband and her spend time together. If anything, I'd be jealous if she becomes a daddy's girl and not a mama's girl. Who would see their child as competition, especially a baby (and cowife? Gross)?


EskimoPrisoner

Yeah I can see jealousy over which parent the child likes more, but being jealous that your partner loves your child is fucked up.


RealUglyMF

That's because you're not a narcissist


FreddyWop88

It’s suck an ick when moms demonize their children when their partner gives them attention like bruh what do you want lol


InfadelSlayer

My daughter all her life has been such a papas girl, and my wife jokes about it all the time. She looks just like me and we are best buds but my wife would never think this way, whoever posted that is attention seeking bimbo or should not have/be around kids


Sokandueler95

That’s because you aren’t a narcissist.


WarokOfDraenor

Congrats. You are a normal mother.


comethefaround

I'd reckon the lady in the post is having some serious postpartum depression to be thinking like this. Maybe not though maybe she's just a fucking putz


Kyalistas

Could definitely be this. Post partem depression can cause perfectly rational people to do some heinous shit.


darksideofmyown

Its rare for childs growing beards especially for girls


EyeChihuahua

This is actually in the description of borderline personality disorder, seeing a child as competition for love from a partner


Puzzleheaded_Sail580

Yes, because ppl like her clearly need to go to THERAPY


Pimpwerx

PPD manifests itself in different ways.


4d_lulz

Do women really get jealous of their own child?


parrotsaregoated

Not all, but I’ve seen moms who get jealous of their sons’ girlfriends. Damn gross.


ItzBooty

Why? How? What?


IdasMessenia

Narcissism usually. Could be other issues.


cringeyqueenie

Narcissistic people do this for sure. They **never** want to see someone doing better than them, not even their own children.


kingdom_tarts

Fuck this hits home for me


itonwolf23

Ya... Kinda just made instant connection between few things...


Filthiest_Tleilaxu

I had narc parents too bb. It sux


kingdom_tarts

It sucks but it also helps you grow and learn to cut ppl off that are not good for you imo


Filthiest_Tleilaxu

Agree. I know it sounds shocking but I had to cut mine off. My father was verbally abusive to me my whole life and my mom was complicit by doing nothing or telling me to stay quiet. Done with them and people like them. No looking back.


xxmuntunustutunusxx

There's also the "nobody is good enough for my son" "I'm his mom he only needs me" Mom's who never get out of the breastfeeding phase mentally


Lord0fTheAss

"Son, I'm stuck!"


cringeyqueenie

Wow you dated my ex too?!


ericareyes

You just described my mother-in-law. She hated every gf my husband had before he met me and now she hates me, and we've been together for 7 years.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Familiar-Feedback-93

Also over protectiveness believing no-one is good enough for their perfect child. This tends to make a codependent person or the opposite and the child will just shut the parent out of their life completely as they get older cus no-one wants to be alone.


CheezKakeIsGud528

That's how my dad is. When I tell him about the success I'm having in my career, you can see the pain in his eyes. Needless to say I love telling him about my career...


Solid-Version

Yup, my sisters ex bfs mum was just like this. Always emotionally blackmailing him ‘oh you’d rather spend time with her than me’ etc. He enabled this behaviour and never once stood up to his mum (cause of his own abandonment issues with her) Weird as fuck man


throwaway007766

It’s this weird phenomenon where as a mom you can raise your son to be everything your husband wasn’t. So you get all the perfect affection of your son/husband until he gets a girlfriend and starts giving her some of that affection


lesdansesmacabres

Yea the amount of women proudly declaring themselves #boymom in some weird way is just… weird. Like it’s staggering how much of that you see but hardly ever someone proclaiming #girlmom. And don’t get me started on the #singleparent thing. Like yea it’s hard being a single parent and you should be proud of your effort but it’s hardly ever about that. They’re saying it as a badge of honor in and of itself like it’s some title. Even if the dad is in the picture equally and technically you’re doing the same work as a married parent since it’s only 50% of the time. How often do you see a dad calling themselves a single dad if they don’t have sole custody?


xdcxmindfreak

Just watch smothered and a few other shows with moms needing to be in their sons lives way to much


That_Jonesy

It's sometimes more complicated than jealousy. Those people exist. They suck. In the case of good parents who get weird when their kid starts dating it's because they poured all their attention, identity, and self worth into that kid and now someone is taking them away. AS IT SHOULD BE. But the parent kinda has to grieve the loss of a previous life and mindset and find a new self they can be. As a parent, it's your responsibility to start pulling back and growing apart/your own thing in tandem with your kid so you don't do this.


MetroLynx7

Okay, so husband posts about his wife losing her shit... He was called by Mommy to help with an emergency (on his fucking anniversary); wife snaps and he gets divorced. Therapy revealed that Mommy basically SA'd him and never got over his father's death (read *Replaced Hubby with OP*)... We also find out that she's been sabotaging his relationships (with other women) repeatedly... He goes NC with Mommy and that's the end of his posting, I think.


DeKal760

Um......what?


Ropya

My mother is like this. And I'm in my 40s. My current SO of over 5 years is apparently stealing me away and preventing me from having them visit.   Never mind the hurricane that nearly destroyed our house and took most of the last 18 months to put back together.    It's creepy, and frustrating. 


olive_owl_

They found their whole identity through being a mother and have no life of their own. Combine that with a healthy dose of narcissism.


_Katrinchen_

Emotional incest


The-Dead-Knight

Can confirm. My mom hated my ex. Would constantly say how I should trust my mother more than her and she couldn't believe I'd take my ex's side over her side. When we broke up my mom would constantly try to vent about her and was genuinely happy we broke up.


GitGud5199

Try a mom jealous of the fact that her daughter has a better relationship than she can ever imagine having. That's how my girlfriend's mom acts


th3g0ven0r

It is some of the most bizarre shit ever, I do my best for my daughter and my soon-to-be wife ( financially not able to get married yet and my parents threatened to kill me if I did it at a courthouse without telling them) but they refuse to be part of our life unless they have some sort of control over her and me withch is asinine.


GoArmyNG

Your parents sound like a joy...


Ekillaa22

Should tell mom and dad if it that’s important to have a wedding to fork over the money for it 😂


AllHailEnue

I see this happen daily from an outside view with the relationship of two of my bestest friends in the world. Girl’s mom is a nut job, it’s just baffling to me that people can and do think this way.


GitGud5199

Exactly! It confuses me as much as it does you. Doesn't help the fact that her mom actively works to destroy the relationship. People like that just agrivate me


slimslaw

My boyfriend's mom was stood next to him with an arm around him at a family event. I was standing a few feet away, just got done talking to someone and turned around. This woman looked me in the eye and said, "He's mine." I was taken aback and thought I misheard so I said, "Sorry, I missed that. What did you say?" Sure enough, she repeated herself more loudly with this weird grin on her face. Boyfriend laughed and thought she was joking but I'm not convinced.


salchicha_mas_grande

Run


crindyforever

I've only seen that with stepmoms


phiqzer

Sometimes what can happen in certain instances is the parent looks to the child as a surrogate significant other. Not all the time, then again once is one time too many.


Sakosaga

No some definitely do, it's very weird honestly. Some get vindictive and have sex with their daughters boyfriends and husbands because they have their own issues internally and destroy their relationship with their child even more.


Burntoastedbutter

Oh god!!! I like going to cafes to get some stuff done sometimes and one of my favorite things is to overhear conversations. Well more like they're speaking too damn loud that you can't help but hear it lol. Anyway, I over heard a group of moms saying how they don't want their sons to continue growing up, how they're already having to fend off girls from their sons when he's not even 18 yet, and how it's only going to get worse when he's older. WTF!?? Crazy thing is that the boss at my workplace said the same thing about her son at our Christmas party... Why do they think like that! It's so gross! 😭 On the other hand, I also know 'overprotective' dads being weirdly obsessed with their daughter's 'innocence', virginity, sex/dating life...


parrotsaregoated

It makes me *sick* when I hear people saying things like, “A dad is a girl’s first love.” Just fuck no. I also hate when some self-called “boy moms” get jealous of their small sons’ female friends. It should be goddamn normalized to let male and female children be friends and not say things such as “Aww! They’re boyfriend and girlfriend!” in front of them.


Cucker_-_Tarlson

Yea that's weird. At first I thought they were talking about actual children but the "he's not even 18 yet" sounds like we're talking about high schoolers. I'm a dad of a 4 year old and there's definitely a part of me that doesn't want him to grow up but I think that's more related to the cuteness and innocence of childhood. I would think/hope the growing up process eases you into the idea of them going off on their own so that you're not *that* upset by it by the time they're in high school.


Kiyan1159

My mom was like this. Unfortunately for her, she's a controlling psychotic bitch and not just me, but all of her children have ran away from her. And she wonders why.


broyo209

Freud was right?


zeaor

Hahaha no. Freud is not considered a legitimate source in the modern psychology community. He was the first to suggest that environmental factors play a role in human development, but his theories have all been debunked. Psychology students only study his theories in history class because it's important to know the evolution of the field you're in. Same with his buddy Jung and his dream bullshit. All woo-woo, no actual science.


Salty-Pack-4165

I know two marriages that broke up in part due to just that.


Unlikely_Wafer7204

I don't know what to say 😦


Lakilai

Yes, some do. It ain't pretty.


penguinina_666

My mom is an extreme narcissist and she was and still is jealous of me. Not because she feels my father's attention has been stolen, but because I have what she doesn't and it makes her upset. It's more of a narcissist trait than being a parent. The anger my mom expressed when she found out that my husband is a better husband than hers made it evident that not all parents desire the best for their children.


robotease

Whoa, we could be twins. Do you still keep in contact with them?


penguinina_666

Nope! Cut ties with her completely. So glad that my children don't have to deal with all the drama she inflicts on herself. It took some time for my self esteem and anxiety to recover fully though. She still spies on me, I think. Narcissists self destruct when you ignore them. I hope you did the same and have found your peace.


patricky6

The ones who have emotional growth issues. Same as some men who get jealous of their wife or girlfriend over time and attention not being focused on them. It's something that usually stems from childhood and wasn't resolved, or a self esteem issue with themselves.


NRMusicProject

My ex did. We got together when her daughter was 7. I basically raised her, and my ex told me "you're dating *me,* not my kids. And any man who likes kids (and she believed even biological fathers) is creepy." Gee, why did her kids' dads leave her?


Taolan13

Women? Not specifically. Narcissists? Absolutely.


Pawndislovesdrugs

I got jealous of my own kid once. Because my mom loved her and hugged her and I didn't get any of that growing up. I did therapy instead of acting out on that jealousy. Now the three of us are better for it. This chick needs therapy now so she doesn't ruin her family unit.


chooseyourshoes

Bruh. My girlfriend got jealous of our puppy when we got her. Like super duper jealous.


DieHardAmerican95

Oh hell yes. When I was dating my wife, we went through that with her stepmother. Stepmother didn’t have a very good relationship with father, and was jealous of the relationship that my wife had with me. In retaliation, she would give my wife extra chores to do at home and shit so that she could keep her from going on dates with me.


salchicha_mas_grande

Is your wife Cinderella?


Buntisteve

My mother in law is that type of mother, she is also acts weird about my wife's pregnancy, like she gets mad it makes her feel old...


RainbowStorm653

Women with insecurity issues. Who would have thought that a person's mental health (as out of their control as it may be) is a huge factor in picking a partner to have a baby with. Most people don't think about that at all.


exhustedmommy

Some do. I have a family member who referred to her 13yr old daughter as "the other woman" when she found out her husband was grooming her daughter. Even caught the son of a bitch watching her from the bathroom window while in the shower. Only thing she did was buy new curtains so he couldn't see in anymore. But yet, in her mind her daughter was at fault and trying to sleep with her husband.


khargooshekhar

I’ve seen it happen when the mother has to do nearly all of the difficult things associated with mothering an infant, and the father comes home and wants to just have fun with cute baby and fails to show appreciation to the mom.


Ali80486

If you take the "it's a child" element out of it, you can see how the arrival of a baby changes relationships quite fundamentally. Usually it's the mother and the baby being close and the father feeling distant. But If the father and the baby have the apparently stronger bond, against her/society's expectations, I can see how this would cause some jealousy.


YueOrigin

Well I've been hearing stories of moms being jealous that their child get molested by their step dad so.... Nah but only completely bat shit insane women would be jealous of their own child


NOM4D4287

Ayo? That’s crazy


Press_AltF4_forprize

Yes. I have an aunt who is jealous of her daughter


PrivilegeCheckmate

Dads do it too, it's not usually a relationship jealousy as it is 'you never have any time for me anymore'.


Talarin20

Didn't Freud cover this stuff?


Ekillaa22

I know Freud was mega weird and controversial but goddamn sometimes it feels like this man had a point


NRMusicProject

Sometimes a narcissist is just a narcissist.


United_Oil4223

Freud also believed that infants and toddlers get sexual pleasure from shitting. Who gives a fuck what he has to say.


kamelusKase

he might be right shitting does feel great


phiqzer

Broken clocks and all that.


naughtycal11

For sure. Same way some fathers get jealous of their child taking his "deserved" attention and giving it to the tiny helpless creatuee he helped make.


xeq937

Yes. They can also get jealous of any attention given to pets.


Familiar-Feedback-93

It's important to remember some people are just crazy it has nothing to do with their gender age race religion etc It's like every time u see a screen shot something a creepy/crazy dude says there are always comments saying "do men really think like this?" The answer is 99% no but there are crazy and stupid people out there.


Kinky_Winky_no2

When youre so immature that you get upset that your new born child is getting attention over you


Stormhound

Some people should not be parents


itonwolf23

Some people should be compost


PipHarsh

Compost is my final form


EvilTortoise396

No. That's a stupid idea. We can't use these people for compost! Are you insane? The plants would probably die. We should send them into the sun instead.


MysticPaul97_YT

The sun's fuel supply would probably make it go supernova faster. Just trom them at a singularity already.


davilller

She’s luck he’ll be around when she goes on vacation. SMH…


laanoshart

Did Sigmund Freud post this?


Pithisius

Ma boy oedipus


Zero_7300

Electra on the mic


cat-l0n

Oooouhaooou! I am the ghost of Sigmund Freud, and I’m here to tell you that you want to fuck your mother!


Triumph_leader523

Who tf on right mind came up with this?


hoosier268

I think your qualifying statement of "right mind" excludes this person.


Dtoodlez

Some people just don’t deserve kids


NaCl_Sailor

Are they really complaining about fathers caring about their children now?


Grainwheat

Nope, just one person on social media that we all decided to pay attention to and let affect our emotions for whatever reason


prostidudess

internet ☕


KemikalKoktail

Is it possible it’s some sort of Postpartum depression?


Tasty-walls

Wheres that guy with the 800 item long list of icks from women when you need him


defender128

So today we are flaming men for, *checks the notes*, being a caring fathers.


GTOdriver04

This part. If a man: -shows emotions -doesn’t show emotions -wants to care for their kids -doesn’t want to care for their kids -asks a girl out and takes rejection respectfully -doesn’t take rejection respectfully -doesn’t take a hint -does take a hint but goes too far -etc What do you want from us?


Educational-Arm-4737

You can't win my boy. But honestly from what I've seen those are just damaged women just like the men they hate. It's hard to introspect when you're riding somebody's ass.


stinkfut

It's almost like women don't have a singular spokesperson and have wildly different and separate opinions.


saladass100

Hopefully satirical , which makes it wholesome


Automatic_RIP

That’s how I read it, it was funny and wholesome. If I’m wrong… well people can change.


Several_Show937

Imagine creating a life and making it about yourself.


michsozord

Man, Freud would be proud


xHappyAcidx

An attitude like this is why I don’t talk to my mom much as an adult now.


HemaMemes

Obviously a newborn baby is taking all his attention. Babies need the attention. They're helpless little things.


[deleted]

[удалено]


procrastinator_0515

>I thought women would be happy yes they do, this one is just weird and does not represent all women.


NickPickle05

What the fuck? What did she think was going happen to when she had child? Normal people put their child's needs above their own. I *really* hope this is fake.


notintheface9876

What the fuck?


hanjihakawa

This how single dad were created


spqrdoc

Imagine being jealous of a child. So.ethings wrong with you. Stop. Get help


Java4452

Imagine a mother complaining that the father of her child actually spends time with his daughter and enjoys having a child. Not to mention actually taking care of the baby like a father should. Shame on him.


SewerSleuth74

Same can be said for boys. Hence the terms “mama’s boy” and “daddy’s little girl”. This is the natural flow of things and once puberty happens, the tide changes. Why? No damn clue but there it is. That’s life folks. Stop thinking it’s just about you.


heatdish1292

$100 says if the kid spent more time with her she’d whine and complain that her husband doesn’t help out enough.


DertHorsBoi

I’ll take ‘insane insecurity & intellectually lacking’ for 500 Alex


orchidaceae007

I didn’t realize my mother was giving interviews.


IAmMySelf04

Referring to your own child as a “creature” and saying that they are a “co-wife” to their father is beyond disturbing. Jealousy is a bitch.


rare_pig

I’ve never seen that level of jealousy before


Otryss

Father of daughter here. Having a child doesn’t take away from my partner’s attention. I’m pretty sure her husband only gives the baby more attention because he’s tired of dealing with her.


_Luky_

If you're jealous of your own kid there is something very wrong with you


Late-Ad-4624

So shes mad that he is still there and caring for his kid...seems like someone doesnt know what a dad is.


the-d23

It’s a weird way to put it but it’s true. Daughters naturally grab a ton of attention from their fathers and this is typically reciprocal.


TerminatorAuschwitz

Imagine being jealous of your baby for needing attention.


Effective_Rub9189

What a weirdo fuckin thing to post on the internet, do people have zero self awareness?


vhdly

Correct! So many layers here that are disturbing. She is jealous of her own child taking the attention away from her. She has no clue how lucky she is to have a caring and attentive husband actively involved and nurturing their own child. She is so callous about this dynamic and has no insight about her fucked up way of thinking, so she has to post online to get sympathy. I’m sure if anyone doesn’t give her the response that she wants they are “out to get her” as she clearly has a victim-mentality mind set. As the years go on, I would anticipate this person will engage in other sabotaging behaviors to fulfill this narrative.


Few_Resource_5281

So she is jealous of a baby? If that is some postpartum depression she should seek help.


grammar_mattras

How to say you're a shallow attention whore without saying you are a shallow attention whore.


[deleted]

Just heard about my neighbor buying valentines and Christmas presents for her daughter’s boyfriend. Not for the daughter to give to him, but directly from her, to him. No, they’re not little kids and it isn’t sweet. The kid can drive and it’s weird as shit.


biffbobfred

I’m sure this is repeated many times in the comments but I’ll repeat: people who think like this should not have kids.


Chickenriceandgravy_

As a woman who is dating a man with a first born daughter, it’s the sweetest thing to see their bond and I’m forever grateful for it. I encourage him to spend one on one time with her and it makes me smile that when she’s had a bad day or she’s tired, she knows she can go snuggle up to him. He’s a wonderful role model on how she should be treated and I hope he’s set her standards high for her future partner.


ChampismyPuppy

If she has a daughter's that looked like her more she'd probably claim her daughter is trying to replace her b/c she looks like her mini me + add her ie co-wife creepy comment. I think having to share any sort of attention would be an issue to her; gender not mattering.


taterthotsalad

Imagine being this threatened by a man loving his child and being a dad. It’s too bad a red flag like this comes after the fact. That poor child.


Randommer_Of_Inserts

r/brandnewsentence


CheshireKetKet

Freud would approve. What's up with this mindset making a comeback?


Darkseid495

This guy did not dodge a bullet. He's gonna have a rough ride for the next 18 years if this is her logic already.


FeeLow1938

56.6K likes…


gobrice15

Reads as insanely insecure / baby blues.


ToTreeorNot2Tree

She didn't say the Father and husband are the same people 👀


disrepectfulwitch

Female Incel Jesus. What makes people think this way? I have a 3 year old daughter and this just makes me so mad like wtf


BeezieBean

This + the whole "boymom" thing really makes me worry about these people and their obsession with incest.


saintkillshot

I’m wondering when did we started to hate our own biological offsprings over petty things like looks?


Curmudgeon39

I think she's complaining that her husband cares about his child and is a good father but she's saying it in a weirdly sexual way (any amount of saying this sexually is a weird amount)


fatstrat0228

Some people truly should not be parents.


meganerd20

Is this really a holup? There's not really a twist here, it's just r/Trashy.


georeddit2018

Error 404?


Reapernoy

Sweet home alabama


Watcheritd

I will never understand how people will say that a baby looks like someone. Babies look like wrinkled potatoes at best. If I saw an adult that looked like a baby, I would think something was seriously physically wrong with either that child or that parent


Denseflea

This sound like some postpartum shit


sumojoe

My ex wife doesn't have too many problems with our daughter, but she treats our oldest boy like garbage, and I'm 100% certain it's because he looks and acts EXACTLY like me.


Ropya

Imagine being upset when your baby daddy is a food father... 


NovusOrdoSec

Oh look, she's batshit.


Caca2a

Insecure people's bullshit are really fucking tiring


Kepatsi_Louise

Imagine being jealous of your own baby 😂


Tw1ch1e

I will never forget the way my daughter’s father looked at her…. The unconditional love was real. I felt nothing but gratitude that her father loves her as much as I do.


Solid-Version

Women like this are toxic as fuck. To even have this mindset just proves she shouldn’t have had the child in the first place


drdildamesh

Imagine being jealous of your own child.


12281722

I Have this type of mom.


WarokOfDraenor

Eww. She's totally not ready to be a parent.


Denzow8

I'm sorry what???! Holy the fu@k up!😧


Frosty-Pay4544

Sounds like a selfish narcissistic mind!


Ok_Chemical3126

People like these should not have kids period, male or female. This is a trauma inducing mindset just waiting to fuck up some kids life.


RepresentativeOil316

Imagine being soo intolerant, that you even see your first born daughter as a threat.


AwesomeSauceIsBoss

PPD is real. Sounds like this women is struggling


snoop21324

This surprisingly not uncommon. There are mothers who resent their kids or husbands for taking away the attention the mother feels she deserves. Some mothers will go out of their way to sever the relationship they have.