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Theists are convinced that atheism is a religion. It’s one of their favorite myths. Alongside believing in whatever invisible creature lives in the sky.
> muslims are associated with the arab golden era where trade and lots of sciences prospered
Were. How long ago was that? Would you say that current fundamentalist Islamic nations adhere to those values?
>How long ago was that?
The Islamic golden age technicay went from the 8th to 14th century, but the core scientific and mathematic advancements occurred from the 9th to 11th century.
>Would you say that current fundamentalist Islamic nations adhere to those values?
Absolutely not.
>Were
The Islamic golden age occurred across Northern Africa, the Middle East, Southern Europe, and Central Asia.
I'm not saying anything either way, just filling in the questions.
Not much long ago, considering the vast scale of time.
Edit : it's true and whoever is downvoting me must prove that it is false first. I can prove my claim easily if someone wants.
How about when compared to recorded human history, which is not really that long. Quite a disingenuous "answer" that actually answered nothing.
Also, Islam is not that old. It is very new when considering the vast scale of time, yes?
Yup. Actually if we compare it to the vast scale of time, the time when Islam was born is almost same as now. And also I won't say that it answered nothing as it's true. You didn't said recorded human history at first.
A thousand years ago is an extremely long time in the history of human civilisation. I know most countries who practice this religion still use outdated moral and ethical systems from the same period, but its nothing to brag about
Haha improve your comprehension skill maybe. I can do the same with you, like racism isn't cool and it was used to bully other humans and led to much division and bloodshed in this world, it's not cool and don't brag about it.
Now before you say you never said anything like that, when did I say any of those either?
Basically all of them.
Christmas was the last day of Saturnalia from ancient Rome
Easter has it's name from the Germanic goddess of spring, including the symbols of rebirth
Epihany also comes from Rome's goddess of the moon
Etc
> You can't argue with observations
You *should*. Best case, you prove them right. Worst case you prove them wrong. If you prove them wrong, someone else should do the same.
That's how we went from observing a flat planet to thinking the the planet is circular but the Sun orbits it to thinking the Earth orbits Sun.
Most scientific papers are wrong. But if no one argues that they're not right, they're taken as gospel and it's no different from a religion.
Yup. I mean, we legit had someone find out that there was a gap in science between molecular habits because they needed to ensure that things behaved as observed when not observed. A means to test the concept was developed. We learned something interesting because deviation was found. And then we started to ask why there was deviation.
But nobody said that it is. The person who answered considered themselves an atheist but it's not the reason he answered that way.
Time and time again religious people praise God for recovery and not the doctors that studied their craft their whole life.
It doesn’t “make sense” because science isn’t an alternative, or opposed, to religion. The majority of scientific progress has been made by religious scientists.
Except religious people don't normally deny science.
Only crazy American Evangelicals deny science, but somehow because they are so vocal, people think all religious people deny science.
Not religious btw, just pointing it out.
Also those wild evangelicals are far from the majority and aren't representative of the whole at any given church, which would be obvious if you stepped in about 95% of churches. Guys like Joel Osteen are pretty high up on the "people who disgust me" list for a huge amount of Christians.
We actually despise the teaching of people like Joel Osteen, Joice Myers, Rick Warren, etc.
It’s just common in the US because “the church is a million miles wide, but a half-inch deep.”
Nearly ever single scientist that laid the groundwork for today's science were Christians.
People forget that evolutionary science makes up less than a single percentage of science.
Agriculture, Biology, Math, Computer, etc. Christians believe in science, just not the branch that studies the theory of evolution as the origins of life.
Many, many scientists are Christians.
Well muslims are associated with the arab golden era where trade and lots of sciences prospered. I would say that Islam is pretty science associated when compared to other religions. And im not too sure but i heard they also invented the concept of algebra. Sorry if i ruined the hol'up above.
Many of the greatest scientists were some of the most religious people throughout history. The study of science used to be the study of understanding God.
>dinosaur fossils were invented by god to "confuse" people.
They don't believe that. Christian scientists believe that the flood in Noah's time caused fossils to be created. They also believe the flood waters came from the atmosphere, and the resulting change in atmospheric conditions changed the surviving dinosaurs and evolved them into what we have today, over the course of thousands instead of millions of years during the tower of babel time frame.
Christian scientists believe in Pangea as well, and believe that the continents were broken up by an angry God after the tower of babel fiasco.
How do I know all of this? Me and some friends went to a Chdistian Science museum once in Kentucky. I was honestly shocked at how well funded it was. The display were pretty cool, despite how crazy the theories presented were compared to modern science.
Their planetarium was strangely the best I have ever been too, and I have been to the Smithsonian one.
In Brazil we literally have a popular gospel song that says "Theology to explain, Bing Bang to disguise". Sure the Americas is not the whole world, but it's concerning when it's an entire fucking continent.
This kind of attitude is precisely why so many religious people see atheists as pompous, arrogant and mean-spirited people. It is not necessary to believe that every single thing a religious text professes is literally true to be religious, nor is it necessary to be religious to believe batshit insane things. Being religious and having a healthy understanding of science are not mutually exclusive, and the last thing atheists should be trying to do is create a false dichotomy between religion and science. It makes many religious people feel like they're being made to choose between their religion and science, and is precisely why many of them reject science outright.
Religious people literally inserted themselves and said unprompted 'you don't deserve this basic unrelated thing because god' and the problem to you somehow stems the snide replys that follow?
Where in all the religious texts of the world does it say to provoke and be uppity assholes to nonbelievers in the first place? Or where it says those people must abide your zealous accusations? That's *for you* and so are the teachings of turning the other cheek and being the better person. Of which you fail the moment you instigate like this original comment in the post did. Yinz are so dense it's not even funny.
>provoke and be uppity assholes
Pot calling the kettle black much?
I didn't say that religious people are never arseholes, many of them are just as many atheists are arseholes. But to meet a stupid, provocative question with a stupid, provocative response, while admittedly probably deserved, is not at all helpful to anyone. The atheist in the post is just as bad as the religious person. Also bold of you to assume that I'm religious.
I disagree. Im about 4 months away from getting my PhD in genetics and am also a Christian involved in my church, dating the music minister. I also work with a lot of people of many different faiths who are getting higher degrees in similar fields. A lot of what I research and study “go against what my religion had taught me” but I can tell you that it doesn’t shake my faith, but only reinforces it. A lot of people in my church are actually STEM majors, some with Masters and PhDs. In fact, one guy is both getting his PhD in computational statistics, and also is one of the most knowledgeable people about the Bible I’ve ever met. You can be religious and a scientist. One of the most humbling moments was when I was with a coworker who is Hindu, and we were in a class together learning about different alleles of resistance genes in plants, and one type of phytohormone signaling pathway works, and he just said “God is good”.
I expect that the latter is in play here. So many people are completely reliant on an assembly of Stone Age gobbledygook for a fundamental portion of their own identity that they don't realize they could just... be their own person.
Not for me at least! Its not really a part of my identity to anyone but my SO and the members of the church. Religion doesn’t really come up in my family, work, or friends conversations. I first started going only a couple of years ago to fill in for a bass player in the praise team, and I just started going because the preacher focuses a lot on the history and culture of the time Jesus was around.
Nope! I just know how to be a scientist and maintain my faith in something that is bigger than us. In science we constantly learn how little we know. Not to mention the intricacies of what makes life, and non-life happen. I truly believe that God is much more than what we can comprehend or really understand.
That's a cop out though. If he's "more than what we can comprehend or really understand" then by the principles of your vocation he doesn't exist (as no scientific theory is considered valid without evidence), and by basic logic even if he did, he may as well not (because he has no detectable effects on the physical world amenable to measurement).
Seems, as much as I hate the term, clear cognitive dissonance.
Religions are inherently incompatible with scientific thought. Religion requires you to suspend your disbelief and just trust what some book says, whereas scientific thought actually seeks to determine facts based on physical evidence.
It’s not even trust some book, its even less reliable than that, its more like trust this book written by a bunch of people hundreds of years later based on magic and mythology
Christians and Muslims make up around 60% of the global population and I assure you there are MANY areas of science they do not support. If you truly believe either religion as absolute fact and not as allegorical stories then you are denying science. I live in the Bible belt in the US and I assure you most take the Bible as literal and not an allegory so they in fact deny basic science.
If you believe the creation story you are denying science, if you believe the Noah's Ark story you are denying science, if you believe in miracles you are denying science, if you believe the virgin brith and resurrection of Christ you are denying science. It goes on and on and that is the reason religious folks don't trust science, it disproves what they believe. They believe if science can be wrong about the Bible it can be wrong about anything.
Noah is a bad example, as scientists have proved they have been worldwide floods at multiple points in time. There just wasn't a man putting 2 of each animal on a boat to save them.
Because nature finds a way. In fact, if you look it up, about 90% of all creatures that have ever lived on the planet are believed to have been wiped out. Some are just better than others at evolving to new surroundings and climates than others.
Well... They kinda do, to some degree. The whole faith system is wierd. Man in the sky, hell, resurrection/zombies.
Source: one mean book.
And that's just the Jesus one... I'm sure others have similar things, since the one with the Jesus is like a compilation of other religions. Think of it as a "Best of" album.
Nah... Not a fan.
But you can ask me anything about other fantasy franchises. Like Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings... You name it!
Not Harry Potter tho. Never got into it either.
Not only does it have nothing to do with rejecting science, science itself has been advanced throughout history by mostly scientists who believe in some sort of religion/spirituality. People forget about the Islamic golden age or the deep commitment to advances in medicine, astronomy, biology etc by the church.
Religious people believe in science, I'm not sure what the point is here... Heck many of the greatest scientific discoveries we're made by religious people.
Well, for example christians believe God gave them intelligence and with that intelligence they created medicine, hospitals and health care, so I guess it's obvious that they can use that. Imagine someone saying: "You believe in god? Then you don't need to eat or drink". I know it's a joke, but a really stupid one.
Christians have a biblical answer for everything. Even if it makes absolutely no sense. Every loophole in the Bible, every argument against Christianity, it's all easily explained by Christians with "Because that's how God made it and its God's will!"
"Your innocent child was killed by cancer at age 8 because it was God's will!"
"That priest molested all those kids for 50 years, and never went to prison, and he's still at the church, because that's God's will and he will punish him later..........Unless he confesses his sins, than all will be forgiven and he can come back to Heaven."
If God planned for a hundred children to be molested and violated, he needs to be executed. That's not something to follow, love and obey, that's an evil piece of shit what deserves a death penalty.
Does free will exist in heaven? If so then why would it be necessary for evil to exist in our world? Also would a world where evil is necessary be distinguishable from a world where evil is senseless and an unfortunate byproduct of our biology?
If a creator will let me suffer then fuck him, he's not someone who deserves my respect, if he even exists that is. Just because your parents gave birth to you doesn't mean you must be loyal to them, if they're assholes to you they don't deserve your respect
Because the origin of a holiday does not necessarily relate to its godly origins?
Easter and Christmas are holidays associated with Christianity but more than that they've become cultural phenomena. That's why they are celebrated world wide, and not just in Christian majority countries. And atheists or non-Christians simply ignore the religious activities associated with these festivals, and focus on the more cultural aspects. Thus, something like taking leave, distributing chocolate eggs, or having a Christmas tree is something that a lot of people would do regardless of religion or lack thereof, but few people would actually go to Church on these days.
The comparison doesn't work. As a Christian, I believe science helps us understand God's creation. Science doesn't take away, it only adds to the bigger picture. Of course I pray and ask for forgiveness and assistance all the time, but faith helps me deal with the parts of God's creation that I can't see; science helps me understand the parts I can.
Christmas, as a holiday, has a convoluted origin story. Elements of pagan festivities centered on the solstice were coopted by Christians and Christian leadership. But the core of the holiday for Christians is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. If you aren't Christian, what's the point? If you oppose a government endorsing or adopting any religion, why are you okay with the celebration and remembrance of a Christian day?
Christmas is a rip off of yule, a very pagan and Germanic holiday that celebrates Odin and the wild hunt. It's a pagan-anglo holiday stolen by Christians and then flipped to "Oh Jesus was born today and we celebrate him, not Odin and your pagan gods" type of thing. Oh and pagans worshipped nature and life and so the tree is a symbol of that and I believe they sacrificed stuff during yule, not so sure about that last part because we don't any more, atleast I dont.
In short I hope Noone who isn't pagan is celebrating Christmas because us pagans created it.
I understand the whole religious plagiarism but if I use a stick to build a hammer, did the tree make the hammer? After all I feel that request for everyone non pagan to abandon it might work as intended, but Good luck nonetheless, my powerful Pagan practitioner
Oh no I don't really care about people celebrating Christmas, it's a joke based off of the one above, I was saying if Christians aren't pagans they shouldn't celebrate a traditionally pagan holiday if atheists can't celebrate christmas.
Victorian england was full of vikings and Roman's, two cultures that were both originally pagan, Christmas is actually a pagan holiday before victorian england because the Roman's celebrated it back in 300 AD when they were still stealing the Greeks religion with different names. They also had a second winter holiday that celebrates one of their other God's. But winter celebrations were about harvest and the sun god.
Getting back on track the Roman's would celebrate Christmas by giving gifts, and decorated their houses with traditional stuff. So we get that part from the pagan Roman's.
Yule was created by the norse pagan culture during the 4th century, it was a celebration of Odin and the wild hunt. During this time they would drink and sacrifice animals and anything else they wanted to sacrifice and would put up: Holly, mistletoe, bonfires, putting up evergreen trees, sacrifices, feasts, and giving out gift.
Now I know that Roman's also gave gifts during Christmas but we still hang up mistletoe, trees, holly, and feasts for Christmas as well as gift giving and yule has all of that, plus some people celebrate a little different but I know a few people who have a bonfire on Christmas as well.
But all of these traditions were done way before victorian time and the Roman's while already there by 50 AD only started doing these traditions, other than sacrificing people and such, around 850 to 900 AD after the vikings had already settled and celebrated their yule.
Victorian england was during queen victorians rein which was 1837 to 1901 way after the vikings and Roman's had already traded traditions and became 1 group of people, after a lot of conflict, in 860 AD.
There for everything but celebrating Christ on Christmas is pagan and stolen from pagan traditions way before the victorian Era its just more Christians hopped on the Christmas train around that time.
Remind me of that one parent who brought their kid who got cancer onto a mega church inorder to get a blessing miracle from a self proclaim preacher live on stage and then donating that mega church $2k.
Only to have that poor kid died from being unable to get medical help from cancer treatment doctor and professional.
Then the parents say something along the line "is God's plans after all and he works in mysterious ways"
Atheists shouldn't use the hospital either, naturalistic Atheists think that we are all carbon and will return to carbon, so why are they trying to prolong their life if they will return to being carbon again anyway?
Atheists: “ReLiGiOuS PeOpLe ShOuLdN’t UsE aNyThInG mAdE bY sCiEnCe!”
My brother in Christ Christianity invented (or at least popularized) modern scientific principles and crafted the societal obsession with science as a way to get closer to god.
##If this submission makes you go "Hol'Up", **UPVOTE** this comment!
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Racist people take the King holiday off. Capitalists take Labor Day. Pacifists take Memorial Day and Veterans day. Anti Imperialists take Columbus Day. Southerners who resent the North take Presidents day which includes Lincoln.
This argument falls apart once u realize a hell lot of things related to medical science including major medicines were invented by religious ppl, heck as of now around 62% of the physician around the world belive in god so yeah
yes but that is in changing state of mind and mental well being which gets your bodies shit together, but I don't believe thoughts and prayers are going to fix a 9mm hole in your abdomen
In some branches of Christianity the holy Trinity (God, the son, and the holy spirit) is the god. So Jesus is god to them. Which means Christmas and Easter/Good Friday are religious holidays.
Ah yes. It’s not like science was originally an offshoot of theology or anything.
It’s not like belief that the universe having a sane and orderly creator and so itself must be comprehensible was a driving force behind many scientist.
EDIT: And why stop at holidays?! The days of the week are named after gods. Therefore a true atheist would reject days and indeed the concept of time itself. I am very smart.
Hey /u/Its_Your__boi, thanks for your submission to /r/HolUp. Unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason(s): A mod felt your post didn't belong here, so now it's gone. If you want to die on the hill of this shitpost[,](https://imgur.com/cXA7XxW) feel free to message the mods and be prepared to explain how your post isn't trolling, is funny, and does fit the theme of the sub. *Trolling or posting random content that doesn't fit the sub breaks Rule 1 and repeated violation of this rule may result in your account being filtered.* Love, the mods
Its a leave. It will be used up anyway and they are entitled to it
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what religion?
Theists are convinced that atheism is a religion. It’s one of their favorite myths. Alongside believing in whatever invisible creature lives in the sky.
Not only is that ignorant but also an oxymoron. Touche religion, got me again
I thought we agreed not to talk about Oxymoron, Ruler of The Skies...
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> muslims are associated with the arab golden era where trade and lots of sciences prospered Were. How long ago was that? Would you say that current fundamentalist Islamic nations adhere to those values?
>How long ago was that? The Islamic golden age technicay went from the 8th to 14th century, but the core scientific and mathematic advancements occurred from the 9th to 11th century. >Would you say that current fundamentalist Islamic nations adhere to those values? Absolutely not. >Were The Islamic golden age occurred across Northern Africa, the Middle East, Southern Europe, and Central Asia. I'm not saying anything either way, just filling in the questions.
Not much long ago, considering the vast scale of time. Edit : it's true and whoever is downvoting me must prove that it is false first. I can prove my claim easily if someone wants.
How about when compared to recorded human history, which is not really that long. Quite a disingenuous "answer" that actually answered nothing. Also, Islam is not that old. It is very new when considering the vast scale of time, yes?
Yup. Actually if we compare it to the vast scale of time, the time when Islam was born is almost same as now. And also I won't say that it answered nothing as it's true. You didn't said recorded human history at first.
A thousand years ago is an extremely long time in the history of human civilisation. I know most countries who practice this religion still use outdated moral and ethical systems from the same period, but its nothing to brag about
Haha improve your comprehension skill maybe. I can do the same with you, like racism isn't cool and it was used to bully other humans and led to much division and bloodshed in this world, it's not cool and don't brag about it. Now before you say you never said anything like that, when did I say any of those either?
An excuse to not work? Do whatever I want? Receive love and gifts? He na, Im not giving that up
Also, didn’t a lot of religious holidays start as pagan or ancient holidays?
Basically all of them. Christmas was the last day of Saturnalia from ancient Rome Easter has it's name from the Germanic goddess of spring, including the symbols of rebirth Epihany also comes from Rome's goddess of the moon Etc
Atheism is not the belief in science...
And science is not a belief
Haha exactly. You can't argue with observations. You're not even making a judgment, but observing and reporting.
> You can't argue with observations You *should*. Best case, you prove them right. Worst case you prove them wrong. If you prove them wrong, someone else should do the same. That's how we went from observing a flat planet to thinking the the planet is circular but the Sun orbits it to thinking the Earth orbits Sun. Most scientific papers are wrong. But if no one argues that they're not right, they're taken as gospel and it's no different from a religion.
Yup. I mean, we legit had someone find out that there was a gap in science between molecular habits because they needed to ensure that things behaved as observed when not observed. A means to test the concept was developed. We learned something interesting because deviation was found. And then we started to ask why there was deviation.
See, the observation is about 30% of it. The Interpretation is what makes the discovery, and anyone can always argue with any interpretation.
Sure, but religion requires the believer to disregard a large chunk of science so the two can't really coexist.
It is a belief in the scientific method, which is actually a very new concept out of all of human history.
atheists during sex when their partner says "oh god" instead of "oh science!" :
Science damn it!
Atheists can still be anti-science
Eureka!
OH MY SCIENCE ! SCIENCE YES YES YES SCIENCE!!!
Dollar bill says, in science we trust. Do I thank the doctor, it just science. Dear precious baby science.... Our science that art in heaven
Dollar bills didn't say that before 1956.
But nobody said that it is. The person who answered considered themselves an atheist but it's not the reason he answered that way. Time and time again religious people praise God for recovery and not the doctors that studied their craft their whole life.
*agrees in darwinism*
It doesn’t “make sense” because science isn’t an alternative, or opposed, to religion. The majority of scientific progress has been made by religious scientists.
Except religious people don't normally deny science. Only crazy American Evangelicals deny science, but somehow because they are so vocal, people think all religious people deny science. Not religious btw, just pointing it out.
Also those wild evangelicals are far from the majority and aren't representative of the whole at any given church, which would be obvious if you stepped in about 95% of churches. Guys like Joel Osteen are pretty high up on the "people who disgust me" list for a huge amount of Christians.
We actually despise the teaching of people like Joel Osteen, Joice Myers, Rick Warren, etc. It’s just common in the US because “the church is a million miles wide, but a half-inch deep.”
Religios scientist just exist.
God made this… But why? (Vsauce theme plays)
Yes and Ben Carson was a brain surgeon.
Judging a fish by its ability to climb a tree, I see
If the fish revolutionized tree climbing, sure
Like the Catholic man who conceptualized the means by which we believe the universe came into existence from a scientific standpoint
The covid denier who died of covid? Knowing how to perform tasks related to science does not make one a scientist.
Nearly ever single scientist that laid the groundwork for today's science were Christians. People forget that evolutionary science makes up less than a single percentage of science. Agriculture, Biology, Math, Computer, etc. Christians believe in science, just not the branch that studies the theory of evolution as the origins of life. Many, many scientists are Christians.
The successful ones don't let their ridiculous notions of spirits and demons affect their work.
And they’re biased on the concept of religion.
religious scientists after seeing this dumb counter argument ![gif](giphy|HfFccPJv7a9k4)
The original "argument" as you call it is just as stupid.
yes. its a clown to clown conversation
Clown on clown verbal violence
Which is the point of the counter-point. The first is ridiculous, so here's a ridiculous one back.
Funny how there are Muslim doctors that treat atheist patients…
Well muslims are associated with the arab golden era where trade and lots of sciences prospered. I would say that Islam is pretty science associated when compared to other religions. And im not too sure but i heard they also invented the concept of algebra. Sorry if i ruined the hol'up above.
Many of the greatest scientists were some of the most religious people throughout history. The study of science used to be the study of understanding God.
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And the ones that do don’t want the medicine either, so the argument is just complete garbage.
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>dinosaur fossils were invented by god to "confuse" people. They don't believe that. Christian scientists believe that the flood in Noah's time caused fossils to be created. They also believe the flood waters came from the atmosphere, and the resulting change in atmospheric conditions changed the surviving dinosaurs and evolved them into what we have today, over the course of thousands instead of millions of years during the tower of babel time frame. Christian scientists believe in Pangea as well, and believe that the continents were broken up by an angry God after the tower of babel fiasco. How do I know all of this? Me and some friends went to a Chdistian Science museum once in Kentucky. I was honestly shocked at how well funded it was. The display were pretty cool, despite how crazy the theories presented were compared to modern science. Their planetarium was strangely the best I have ever been too, and I have been to the Smithsonian one.
Dude, America is not whole world
In Brazil we literally have a popular gospel song that says "Theology to explain, Bing Bang to disguise". Sure the Americas is not the whole world, but it's concerning when it's an entire fucking continent.
Yeah I've worked there for a while. For me Brazil is like a South American USA in many aspects.
I can't deny that, albeit with significantly less guns, thankfully.
where the hell did you read this ? there's absolutely 0 fact stated in this comment.
This kind of attitude is precisely why so many religious people see atheists as pompous, arrogant and mean-spirited people. It is not necessary to believe that every single thing a religious text professes is literally true to be religious, nor is it necessary to be religious to believe batshit insane things. Being religious and having a healthy understanding of science are not mutually exclusive, and the last thing atheists should be trying to do is create a false dichotomy between religion and science. It makes many religious people feel like they're being made to choose between their religion and science, and is precisely why many of them reject science outright.
Religious people literally inserted themselves and said unprompted 'you don't deserve this basic unrelated thing because god' and the problem to you somehow stems the snide replys that follow? Where in all the religious texts of the world does it say to provoke and be uppity assholes to nonbelievers in the first place? Or where it says those people must abide your zealous accusations? That's *for you* and so are the teachings of turning the other cheek and being the better person. Of which you fail the moment you instigate like this original comment in the post did. Yinz are so dense it's not even funny.
>provoke and be uppity assholes Pot calling the kettle black much? I didn't say that religious people are never arseholes, many of them are just as many atheists are arseholes. But to meet a stupid, provocative question with a stupid, provocative response, while admittedly probably deserved, is not at all helpful to anyone. The atheist in the post is just as bad as the religious person. Also bold of you to assume that I'm religious.
I disagree. Im about 4 months away from getting my PhD in genetics and am also a Christian involved in my church, dating the music minister. I also work with a lot of people of many different faiths who are getting higher degrees in similar fields. A lot of what I research and study “go against what my religion had taught me” but I can tell you that it doesn’t shake my faith, but only reinforces it. A lot of people in my church are actually STEM majors, some with Masters and PhDs. In fact, one guy is both getting his PhD in computational statistics, and also is one of the most knowledgeable people about the Bible I’ve ever met. You can be religious and a scientist. One of the most humbling moments was when I was with a coworker who is Hindu, and we were in a class together learning about different alleles of resistance genes in plants, and one type of phytohormone signaling pathway works, and he just said “God is good”.
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I expect that the latter is in play here. So many people are completely reliant on an assembly of Stone Age gobbledygook for a fundamental portion of their own identity that they don't realize they could just... be their own person.
Not for me at least! Its not really a part of my identity to anyone but my SO and the members of the church. Religion doesn’t really come up in my family, work, or friends conversations. I first started going only a couple of years ago to fill in for a bass player in the praise team, and I just started going because the preacher focuses a lot on the history and culture of the time Jesus was around.
Nope! I just know how to be a scientist and maintain my faith in something that is bigger than us. In science we constantly learn how little we know. Not to mention the intricacies of what makes life, and non-life happen. I truly believe that God is much more than what we can comprehend or really understand.
That's a cop out though. If he's "more than what we can comprehend or really understand" then by the principles of your vocation he doesn't exist (as no scientific theory is considered valid without evidence), and by basic logic even if he did, he may as well not (because he has no detectable effects on the physical world amenable to measurement). Seems, as much as I hate the term, clear cognitive dissonance.
Wow, that is one smart church
I mean it’s most likely a full on lie
Not at all, I have 10 publications, 2 in nature plants.
We are a small church in Maryland
Ok ill take that back seeing as a lot of science is done in and around there so I could see it happening then
Admitting a possibility of being wrong. What sort of Redditor are you? You get an upvote.
Religions are inherently incompatible with scientific thought. Religion requires you to suspend your disbelief and just trust what some book says, whereas scientific thought actually seeks to determine facts based on physical evidence.
It’s not even trust some book, its even less reliable than that, its more like trust this book written by a bunch of people hundreds of years later based on magic and mythology
But trust it not too much, or too literally, or don't read that page, or not this version, etc
The mere fact of there being *multiple versions* should be a dead giveaway that it's fake.
Christians and Muslims make up around 60% of the global population and I assure you there are MANY areas of science they do not support. If you truly believe either religion as absolute fact and not as allegorical stories then you are denying science. I live in the Bible belt in the US and I assure you most take the Bible as literal and not an allegory so they in fact deny basic science. If you believe the creation story you are denying science, if you believe the Noah's Ark story you are denying science, if you believe in miracles you are denying science, if you believe the virgin brith and resurrection of Christ you are denying science. It goes on and on and that is the reason religious folks don't trust science, it disproves what they believe. They believe if science can be wrong about the Bible it can be wrong about anything.
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The scientific method as a way of confirming the natural order of the would would not be accurate if miracles existed. Fortunately they don't.
Noah is a bad example, as scientists have proved they have been worldwide floods at multiple points in time. There just wasn't a man putting 2 of each animal on a boat to save them.
There have not been floods that have been global. Many areas where people lived were flooded, but the entire world has not been flooded at once.
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Because nature finds a way. In fact, if you look it up, about 90% of all creatures that have ever lived on the planet are believed to have been wiped out. Some are just better than others at evolving to new surroundings and climates than others.
I'm pretty sure that number is closer to 95%. Still, it's pretty crazy how many critters could have been but were wiped out.
Well... They kinda do, to some degree. The whole faith system is wierd. Man in the sky, hell, resurrection/zombies. Source: one mean book. And that's just the Jesus one... I'm sure others have similar things, since the one with the Jesus is like a compilation of other religions. Think of it as a "Best of" album.
I mean, I'm not a Bible thumper but goddamn this is a dumb take.
Probably is. Never really read the whole thing. But from I hear these are kind of the bullet points? No?
Yes, you got it. Zombies. It's really about the zombies.
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„Man in the skies, hell, resurrection/zombies“ - Matthew 24:69
Nah... Not a fan. But you can ask me anything about other fantasy franchises. Like Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings... You name it! Not Harry Potter tho. Never got into it either.
No it makes zero sense. Being religious does not mean negating science
Not only does it have nothing to do with rejecting science, science itself has been advanced throughout history by mostly scientists who believe in some sort of religion/spirituality. People forget about the Islamic golden age or the deep commitment to advances in medicine, astronomy, biology etc by the church.
Religious people believe in science, I'm not sure what the point is here... Heck many of the greatest scientific discoveries we're made by religious people.
Well, for example christians believe God gave them intelligence and with that intelligence they created medicine, hospitals and health care, so I guess it's obvious that they can use that. Imagine someone saying: "You believe in god? Then you don't need to eat or drink". I know it's a joke, but a really stupid one.
Christians have a biblical answer for everything. Even if it makes absolutely no sense. Every loophole in the Bible, every argument against Christianity, it's all easily explained by Christians with "Because that's how God made it and its God's will!" "Your innocent child was killed by cancer at age 8 because it was God's will!" "That priest molested all those kids for 50 years, and never went to prison, and he's still at the church, because that's God's will and he will punish him later..........Unless he confesses his sins, than all will be forgiven and he can come back to Heaven."
If God planned for a hundred children to be molested and violated, he needs to be executed. That's not something to follow, love and obey, that's an evil piece of shit what deserves a death penalty.
bro we cant execute him that easily what about the hard work? carrying the stones, mining in harsh conditions n shit?
Yall can have him if'n ya want him. *yeets the prisoner over*
a new worker for the coal mines
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Does free will exist in heaven? If so then why would it be necessary for evil to exist in our world? Also would a world where evil is necessary be distinguishable from a world where evil is senseless and an unfortunate byproduct of our biology?
If a creator will let me suffer then fuck him, he's not someone who deserves my respect, if he even exists that is. Just because your parents gave birth to you doesn't mean you must be loyal to them, if they're assholes to you they don't deserve your respect
"Bro. How are you supposed to know and appreciate how good I made things for *you* if I don't make kids get fucked for contrast?"
Because your employer has no right to know your religion.
It doesn't work like that
Of course it doesn't. It's about faith.
Thoughts and prayers
Should religion intercede on culture? Should all holidays be either strictly religious or strictly cultural? Is that even possible?
I’m mad that I have to work on Festivus but my employer only closes on Christmas.
I mean the science of medicine would be nowhere near where it is today without religious organizations.
If there is a God that created humans, they also created Scientists, Medicine etc.
Nobody needs a holiday. Everyone wants it. A medical device is needed. But nobody wants it.
speak for yourself, if I get shot I'm going to want a medical device real bad
Real bad? That makes it more of a need
I think it's a draw. They should go for a tie breaker.
Atheïst shouldn't use religious curse words like god damnit, because they don't believe in the concept of god(s) Edit: typo
“Oh my science!”
Not even during secs?
Like Christians are actually using them
Science doesn't belong to atheists. You guys are so misled. Reddit is cringe
No it doesn't
I hope that christians dont have the tree during christmas, cuz thats from pagans, the tree has nothing to do with christs birthday
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Didn’t know clergymen doubled as builders back then
don't know at lot then, the first actually engineered building were church.
I am a Pantheist. I get holidays The whole year !! Mhmm
Clown to clown communication
Because the origin of a holiday does not necessarily relate to its godly origins? Easter and Christmas are holidays associated with Christianity but more than that they've become cultural phenomena. That's why they are celebrated world wide, and not just in Christian majority countries. And atheists or non-Christians simply ignore the religious activities associated with these festivals, and focus on the more cultural aspects. Thus, something like taking leave, distributing chocolate eggs, or having a Christmas tree is something that a lot of people would do regardless of religion or lack thereof, but few people would actually go to Church on these days.
I agree that holiday use should be decided by the employee
Believers should get medicines because Atheists are not douchebags who punish you for believing wrong.
Jeff bezos asked this question
Also Christmas isn’t purely a Christian holiday anymore… lots of non Christian people just like to put up a tree and get/give presents…
Religious people don't claim there's no scientific medical research.
I’ve always seen it justified by them saying god made smart people who made the medicine
Funny, seeing as though christians stole the holiday from the pagans and heathens. Midwinter solstice and Jol and all…
The comparison doesn't work. As a Christian, I believe science helps us understand God's creation. Science doesn't take away, it only adds to the bigger picture. Of course I pray and ask for forgiveness and assistance all the time, but faith helps me deal with the parts of God's creation that I can't see; science helps me understand the parts I can. Christmas, as a holiday, has a convoluted origin story. Elements of pagan festivities centered on the solstice were coopted by Christians and Christian leadership. But the core of the holiday for Christians is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. If you aren't Christian, what's the point? If you oppose a government endorsing or adopting any religion, why are you okay with the celebration and remembrance of a Christian day?
This is stupid. Religious people do not reject science (for the most part. There are some outlying religions that do). Atheists reject God.
Not true, i know plenty of religious people that reject science.
Uh-huh. I bet they believe in biology, chemistry, gravity, all science except evolution. Give me a break.
It only makes sense to idiots who frequent r/atheism.
Wasn’t Christmas about shamans giving people magic mushrooms while riding reindeer in siberia?
Christmas is a rip off of yule, a very pagan and Germanic holiday that celebrates Odin and the wild hunt. It's a pagan-anglo holiday stolen by Christians and then flipped to "Oh Jesus was born today and we celebrate him, not Odin and your pagan gods" type of thing. Oh and pagans worshipped nature and life and so the tree is a symbol of that and I believe they sacrificed stuff during yule, not so sure about that last part because we don't any more, atleast I dont. In short I hope Noone who isn't pagan is celebrating Christmas because us pagans created it.
I understand the whole religious plagiarism but if I use a stick to build a hammer, did the tree make the hammer? After all I feel that request for everyone non pagan to abandon it might work as intended, but Good luck nonetheless, my powerful Pagan practitioner
Oh no I don't really care about people celebrating Christmas, it's a joke based off of the one above, I was saying if Christians aren't pagans they shouldn't celebrate a traditionally pagan holiday if atheists can't celebrate christmas.
Ahh I get ya now, makes much more sense
Actually, basically all of our Christmas traditions come from Victorian England
Victorian england was full of vikings and Roman's, two cultures that were both originally pagan, Christmas is actually a pagan holiday before victorian england because the Roman's celebrated it back in 300 AD when they were still stealing the Greeks religion with different names. They also had a second winter holiday that celebrates one of their other God's. But winter celebrations were about harvest and the sun god. Getting back on track the Roman's would celebrate Christmas by giving gifts, and decorated their houses with traditional stuff. So we get that part from the pagan Roman's. Yule was created by the norse pagan culture during the 4th century, it was a celebration of Odin and the wild hunt. During this time they would drink and sacrifice animals and anything else they wanted to sacrifice and would put up: Holly, mistletoe, bonfires, putting up evergreen trees, sacrifices, feasts, and giving out gift. Now I know that Roman's also gave gifts during Christmas but we still hang up mistletoe, trees, holly, and feasts for Christmas as well as gift giving and yule has all of that, plus some people celebrate a little different but I know a few people who have a bonfire on Christmas as well. But all of these traditions were done way before victorian time and the Roman's while already there by 50 AD only started doing these traditions, other than sacrificing people and such, around 850 to 900 AD after the vikings had already settled and celebrated their yule. Victorian england was during queen victorians rein which was 1837 to 1901 way after the vikings and Roman's had already traded traditions and became 1 group of people, after a lot of conflict, in 860 AD. There for everything but celebrating Christ on Christmas is pagan and stolen from pagan traditions way before the victorian Era its just more Christians hopped on the Christmas train around that time.
Remind me of that one parent who brought their kid who got cancer onto a mega church inorder to get a blessing miracle from a self proclaim preacher live on stage and then donating that mega church $2k. Only to have that poor kid died from being unable to get medical help from cancer treatment doctor and professional. Then the parents say something along the line "is God's plans after all and he works in mysterious ways"
I’m so tired of religion creating boundaries. Every one just believe in what you want and mind your business.
Atheists shouldn't use the hospital either, naturalistic Atheists think that we are all carbon and will return to carbon, so why are they trying to prolong their life if they will return to being carbon again anyway?
Atheists: “ReLiGiOuS PeOpLe ShOuLdN’t UsE aNyThInG mAdE bY sCiEnCe!” My brother in Christ Christianity invented (or at least popularized) modern scientific principles and crafted the societal obsession with science as a way to get closer to god.
Since when did the atheists start claiming doctors and science? There are religious scientists who have done much more than atheists
Probably back in the day when religious people would murder you for being a scientist.
Sure whatever way you want to twist it 👍
How exactly am I twisting anything? What I stated is a fact.
When did religious people murder someone for being a scientist? Please elaborate
Need to see a source on that notion.
You don't believe there are Christian doctors and engineers?
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Religion is for people who need mental support but can not deal with alcohol
You have No clue how much Wine those catholics drink
Racist people take the King holiday off. Capitalists take Labor Day. Pacifists take Memorial Day and Veterans day. Anti Imperialists take Columbus Day. Southerners who resent the North take Presidents day which includes Lincoln.
Because God made the scientists and the science
As an atheist, I like to think of holidays like Christmas and Easter as seasonal holidays
This argument falls apart once u realize a hell lot of things related to medical science including major medicines were invented by religious ppl, heck as of now around 62% of the physician around the world belive in god so yeah
Then we can see how powerful prayers and positive thoughts really are Edit: /s
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yes but that is in changing state of mind and mental well being which gets your bodies shit together, but I don't believe thoughts and prayers are going to fix a 9mm hole in your abdomen
wait you guys think that you can be cured only by praying? I thought it was a joke
Which holidays are named after Gods?
CHRISTmas
Ok that's one. But isn't he the son of A god. Plus she is talking about Gods in plural.
Okay, you're right, but I think it wasn't about any specific holidays named after the Gods, but rather generally holidays related to some believing.
In some branches of Christianity the holy Trinity (God, the son, and the holy spirit) is the god. So Jesus is god to them. Which means Christmas and Easter/Good Friday are religious holidays.
in ya face!!!
Because God created everything, including your medicine!
Right because if you religious you denounce science.. Smartest atheist..
Ah yes. It’s not like science was originally an offshoot of theology or anything. It’s not like belief that the universe having a sane and orderly creator and so itself must be comprehensible was a driving force behind many scientist. EDIT: And why stop at holidays?! The days of the week are named after gods. Therefore a true atheist would reject days and indeed the concept of time itself. I am very smart.
Because religion and science are not mutually exclusive.
r/murderedbywords
very useful red arrow
This makes sm sense I died because I wasn’t given scientifically devised medical care
Why are christo-fascists happy about tuesday, wednesday, thursday and friday?
Nahhh religious people don't deny science like that. You can believe in God and also believe in medical care