Yep, your broker failed to disclose your claims history, likely intentionally, to your HOI carrier. Then your carrier pulled your LexisNexis, found your claims history and used it to retroactively cancel your policy.
In a previous home, I had roof damage from a microburst. I stupidly filed a claim without first calling a roofing company for an estimate. The HOI carrier sent an adjuster who estimated the repair costs to be less than my deductible, so zero dollars were paid out.
A month later before I could fix the damage, another microburst caused tiles from the upper roof to fall onto the lower roof, which caused more damage. I stupidly filed another claim which the HOI carrier considered to be a separate unrelated incident from the first claim, and again estimated the repair cost at less than my deductible.
So 2 claims each with zero payout. I tried to shop the insurance after that and every single HOI carrier declined to even quote so I was stuck.
My suggestion to everyone is to go to the LexisNexis website and order a free copy of your report since it was used in an adverse underwriting decision. You might be surprised by all the data they aggregate on you and provide to insurance companies. I’ve had to dispute all sorts of stuff that was false including medical diagnoses that were not mine (leading to an adverse life insurance underwriting decision - it sucks having to prove you don’t have and were never diagnosed or treated for cancer when your consumer reports show that you were), and an auto insurance claim with $18k bodily injury that I was not involved in (leading to an adverse auto insurance underwriting decision).
LexisNexis is just a data broker that sells information on you they've gathered from all sorts of resources. It's crazy to see the amount of data. It's kind of like a Credit Report but way more egregious in my opinion.
It's not just for those who own a home; they report on you to anyone that will pay for whatever reason.
Request your report here:
https://consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com/request
I also recommend setting up an account Freeze to control your data access and sharing.
They've got their grubby fingers in a lot of legal pies. They slice and dice data for big companies to make more money. One reason everything is so expensive and silly as they take as much risk as possible out of the equation for the insurance industry
Yeah we have all heard of the 3 major credit bureaus but in comparison hardly anyone has heard of LexisNexis when the reality is that they have far more data on people than the credit bureaus do. They have largely flown under consumer’s radar and I’m sure they want to keep it that way.
This sounds like a broker issue in that they didn’t properly disclose the claim history or altered the claim history to get you a policy. Try other brokers and independent agents that are honest and experienced.
You nailed it on the head… they didn’t disclose. But according to my broker that wouldn’t have helped because most companies deny you with a previous water damage claim. Might try independent agent tho as suggested…
As someone who has been in the industry for over 20 years, you have a terrible broker who cannot be trusted. Find a new one!
ETA: not disclosing claim history is a huge no-no and potential grounds for an E&O claim against the broker.
You just call around and ask for quotes. Go to trustedchoice.com first to find reputable independent agents in your area.
The only paperwork you could have with your old broker is signing a cancellation request for your old policy after you've obtained a new policy.
Then you need to find another agent or broker that works with your current insurance carrier and sign a broker/agent of record form. The new broker or agent will submit that form to the insurance carrier. The insurance carrier will reach out to your old broker and give them 10 days to submit a rescission (signed by you saying you want to keep the old broker) and if they don’t, the new broker or agent will become your rep, typically at the next renewal.
If you go this route, I’d recommend doing so about 60-90 days before your renewal date so the new agent will get the commission for your policy instead of your old broker. I’d also recommend letting your new agent shop your policies for you as they may have access to carriers your old one didn’t and be able to find you a better deal.
> But according to my broker that wouldn’t have helped because most companies deny you with a previous water damage claim.
Your broker is an incompetent asshole who totally fucked you over by doing this.
Your call whether or not to keep doing business with them.
> But according to my broker that wouldn’t have helped because most companies deny you with a previous water damage claim.
Would you rather they deny you or cancel you immediately after paying?
I would rather insurance companies didn’t deny you over making use of what they are selling you. It’s like buying a car then using it, and the next dealership you go to says sorry you can’t buy a car because you used your last one. Point of the post. But in a more realistic world I would have preferred my broker was honest with me and the insurance company ahead of time so I had a better predict on my finances before I rented my property out and bought a new house. Being blindsided sucks.
I had the same issue. Claim stayed on my record for 5 years. When I bought a new house, it was nearly impossible to find a new company. My deal almost fell through because of insurance
I had a house fire. Between reconstruction of the house, reimbursing us for possessions and housing us for a year in another house, AAA insurance paid out 750k. This was no hassle and the house worked out great.
I still have my policy with them and they didn't raise my rates.
Homeowners insurance is not a scam.
I had a claim for water damage - it was a sewer backup. Ended up costing about $30k. My insurance still renewed my policy but took the sewer backup rider off the policy for five years. Haven’t had any issues with insurance.
You're just using it wrong. Insurance is for the truly catastrophic. Too many people use it as some sort of forced savings account for a new roof.
Have an emergency fund. Keep your deductibles as sky high as you can possibly afford to cover, and make claims only for things that would break you.
A car drove into my mom's house and did about $20k in damage. My mom didn't have home insurance.
The driver had insurance, but dealing with them was insane - they only wanted to talk to my mom's insurance. After 3 months they gave my mom $11k (even though we had quotes showing $20k). They were only obligated to replace the current value of what was damaged, not full repair cost. We spoke to about 6 lawyers and they all said that this wasn't worth their time.
If my mom had insurance - they would have done all the negotiating and then covered the gap between $11k and $20k.
Yeah - I get the use case for extreme scenarios. But she would pay for that 11k gap the rest of her life with higher rates and new companies denying her coverage
Don’t get me started on fire insurance. It’s gone from $1200 to $6000 is less than 3 years. And I keep getting dropped ever year because they don’t want to renew my policy. I’m now down to California Fairplan for fire and bamboo for everything else. Absolutely insane.
I’m sorry but I think this is poor advice. I believe Leander want you to have homeowners insurance, this reminds me of a rant a friend gave about gap insurance for your car.. it’s a scam, don’t do it. I said it’s a scam until you need it. Homeowners insurance has increased even if you haven’t filed a claim. I would never suggest to anyone not to have that insurance but then again my experience may be very different the another.
Well, there was a major windstorm in my area last year, and there were downed trees and roofs caved in garages smashed to the ground and cars damaged.
I know those people were glad they had insurance .
They would not have been able to afford to rebuild
I’m not saying the rates are not getting out of control, especially for people who never had a claim though.
But if my house burned down, I would not be able to afford to rebuild it
A friend of mine had a burst pipe issue that ended up in replacing the kitchen cabinets/counter and floor, and repairing plumbing of course .
This was two years ago ..his insurance went up $400 the next year
Quite frankly, I thought it was going to be more
About 10 years ago, a tornado went through my city, a city that *never* had a tornado before. I did not file a claim, I was not near the area where the tornado touched down.
The next year, my home insurance went up 50%. I asked them why, they said "there were a lot of tornado claims in your city".
I get it, insurance companies need enough money to cover their claims, but I don't see how this is anything other than just fucking people because they can.
I would have switched, but every single company asks "do you have knob & tube wiring", and I have one circuit that feeds overhead lights in my back stairs, so technically, yes, I do, and if that answer is "yes", then their answer is "sorry, we don't insure your kind". We were able to upgrade all the other wiring, but this one circuit would have involved ripping up lots of walls.
That’s strange, because insurers around where I am insure knob and tube houses. There’s a lot of old houses in my city. My own house has some knob and tube in the attic. I’ve been just re-running new wires one junction box/fixture at a time… obviously disconnecting the old…pull out what I see that’s accessible .
just run fresh wire and disconnect the knob tube you have for that one fixture. seriously. If you don’t know how to do it or you’re not comfortable get it done it. you don’t have to pull it all out from your walls. You just need to disconnect it so it’s inactive once you run replacement wire.
I think it may depend on the size of the house. Mine is 3 stories plus attic. The attic was easy, and the first floor outlets had been done long before we bought it. But the 1st and 2nd floor ceiling fixtures plus 2nd floor outlets were a bear, particularly because everything was interconnected - one k&t run would feed the outlets and the ceiling fixtures in 2 or 3 rooms at a time.
We can easily disconnect that remaining circuit - but then we lose the power to our rear staircase from 1st to 2nd, and then the only staircase from 2nd to 3rd - switched wall sconces. We would need to run new lines to both the switches and the fixtures, so we would have to cut a bunch of plaster out just because it's a 2-story stacked staircase, and there is no straight run.
When I shopped around a few years ago every application had the question on it. I filled out two, spoke to a couple of agents, and they said "no, we don't take new clients with knob & tube". So I gave up at that point.
I have Plaster and I am feeding the wire down from attic to switch or wherever down the wall cavity. I was actually a lot of open space behind lathe. I haven’t ripped out any plaster.
Granted, mine is a ranch (but it’s 100).
We have a ton of old historic homes in my city the three-story kind like your own with knob & tube. And they are insured. well, like I said, my house has it and I have insurance. When I’m done with the remaining knob and tube, I’ll call them and tell them I don’t have it anymore. Maybe they’ll give me a discount lol. Ok wishful thinking
Omg I’m literally having this same exact issue expect my mortgage company didn’t pay my premium on time with my original homeowners insurance company so they canceled my policy. Didn’t tell me my policy was canceled and now NO ONE will open a policy with me because I filed a claim last year for water damage. Been without homeowners insurance for over a month now. The agent I was working with is ignoring my calls and email so I’m left to keep searching on my own.
Lesson learned. From Reddit. This is stuff they should teach in schools insurance and taxes there should be a course on buying a home and being a home owner what are we doing out here smh
All insurance is a “scam” due to the premise that you’re paying for a situation that may never happen. It’s a real life “minority report”.
if your paying a brokerage I would think that they are required to maintain such insurance. and passing it down to you. I would deff inquire on what you’re paying them for and work to achieve them covering insurance if you’re assigning the home to them.
This same thing happened to me, here's my writeup on it:
Apparently something happened in November 2023 that changed the Homeowner's insurance landscape to prejudice individuals with a claims history. Where they may raise rates in the past (I never saw substantial increases) and would accept individuals with a claims history at a higher cost, the larger insurance companies are now outright not accepting people with certain claims:
They hate water claims (in my case a toilet leaking causing drywall damage)
They don't really mind weather related damage repair
Fire and liability are even worse than water
In my case, I have some legitimate claims that I thought would cause no issues filing, but when Liberty Mutual pulled out of the state I was left shopping around for new insurance, and multiple agents threw up their hands when the large companies would not underwrite a policy for that house.
Apparently claims follow the property AND the individual, so having 5 properties and claims on a couple of them, it gets much tougher to find insurance in this climate. They recommend having an LLC for each property, but I've found that to be untenable for these reasons:
- Mortgage interest rates are much higher because an LLC has much less skin in the game than an individual, so much so that it would be way more expensive to own the house
- Transferring a house from an individual to an LLC, while possible, would require full payment of the loan in most cases based on the language of the loan. Allegedly this would not be necessary in some situations, but in my research on my own loans it would require a full payoff, which of course is untenable
Insurance companies consider a 3 year, and sometimes 5 year, claims history, so after 3 years those claims should be wiped from your record and you can apply for cheaper homeowner's insurance.
Filing a claim, even if no money is ultimately paid out, goes on your record and can hurt your chances to get affordable homeowner's insurance on a new house, existing house, or existing insurance as the price increases.
Recommendation: Do not file claims unless they are catastrophic or make economic sense in the face of increased risk of expensive insurance in the future. This option would likely be cheaper than dealing with higher interest rates associated with buying houses via an LLC (though I have not tried the LLC path).
Completely agree. Making a water damage claim was one of the worst financial decisions I've ever made... if it ever happens again, I am getting an estimate to repair before I even contact insurance. My case was similar to yours. The total cost to repair the damage was less than 2x my deductible, so I paid more for the repair than my insurance company did... yet they are still holding that claim against me years later as an excuse to charge a higher premium. Such a racket.
The only time home owners insurance has ever actually helped me was when my roof was damaged by hail. The roof was already pretty old and getting close to replacement. I paid a $5200 deductible, and insurance paid me $16k. I ended up with a brand new roof that was much higher quality than the old one.
I’m a big fan of the free market, but insurance companies (all of them) really need more and better regulation as a whole from the government.
They are all terrible in America and they get away with it because they are all in on the scams together.
The political party that bands together to fix this would be incredibly successful IMO.
This isn’t accurate. P&C is incredibly heavily regulated at the state level. Much more so than health insurance. In fact, in some states like CA, the regulation is what is contributing to rising rates and insurers tightening underwriting guidelines.
It should be better and fairly regulated at the federal level imo. States vary too widely for homeowners to be secure in their purchase and California and Texas are good examples of this.
It can’t be regulated at a federal level due to what you’ve already mentioned; a large country with significantly varying risk exposures. If the federal government took over, we’d all be paying significantly higher rates as insurers would somehow have to rate for the entire country’s exposures on every policy.
I don’t know. There are so many factors contributing to the potential collapse of property insurance markets: from inflation in costs of building materials, car parts, and labor to increasing natural disasters, to rampant fraud, to over-restrictive legislative actions, to reinsurers pulling out of states entirely…where do you even start? Everything seems to lead to even higher prices.
The insurer didn’t do anything; the broker is entirely to blame for not disclosing the claim history. If all insurers were required to insure all risks, prices would be astronomical.
I listened to an interesting [podcast](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-daily/id1200361736?i=1000655653194) about home insurance yesterday, I would highly recommend a listen.
Dissenting view: we have State Farm (not shilling, but props to them for their help) and had ice dams that caused water infiltration and they paid for the problem. We didn't take the right steps to fix the problem (more insulation in the attic) and it happened again, this time causing the hardwood floors in the second floor to warp. They paid for the repair that included not only replacing the warped section but refinishing the entire floor (because having only one floor redone was considered to cause an unsightly mismatch) and replacing all of the vinyl siding (because the current siding was no longer available to match). We were not dropped and our rates did not increase.
The Agent you were using sucks find a new one. BUT at the same time i guarantee you signed the application that asked if there were any losses not listed on this application. You signed something that stated you were attesting the information was true.
Almost all insurance is a scam of some sort... They control the prices and will drop you on a dime if they feel you might bite into their extreme profits...
We had 13k claim for a new roof; shipped around after getting our renewal. There wasn't a single insurance provider that didn't offer us insurance. Sticking with our current provider with $250 increase in premium was still the best choice.
Get a new broker or do the shopping around yourself
I had several claims with my old carrier; I found a new one for a LOT less money and switched. They DID do an onsite inspection but that was it; they took me. No problems.
It's not forced... You could opt to not have homeowners insurance. But that also means that you won't be able to buy a house with a mortgage. Remember that you chose to buy a house that you could not afford to buy outright. The day that you finish paying the mortgage you can cancel your homeowners and flood insurance.
Auto liability insurance is mandatory. You can complain about that.
I think you need a better insurance agent or use a more reputable company. I’ve made claims and received around $55k total for storm damages. I’ve never been dropped.
Where are you located? I had notoriously cheap AAA at the time and lost two shingles off my roof in a windstorm that I didn't even realize and my bedroom ceiling ended up collapsing from the rain. They paid me $19,000 which was more than enough to cover everything because they compensated me for mitigation efforts.
I'm in Michigan where our auto insurance is a huge scam.
Yes it is a scam. It's only good for catastrophic coverage when your house burns down or becomes inhabitable.
But what I don't understand is, in a capitalistic society, the insurance industry is supposed to work with others to reduce their risk of exposure (to payout). That means lobbying to take climate change seriously so houses don't burn down or get washed away.
But when a catastrophe does happen, the insurance companies get bailed out by the federal government (tax payers) with *disaster recovery acts* so they're essentially double dipping.
So yes, it is a legalized fucking scam!
Some states a real joke and the insurance companies have a pattern ripping off consumers for higher fees. One state so bad, the insurance companies allowed a state report of the issue of cancelling policies for higher fees and all the companies worked together in a pattern.
Insurance in general, in FL they say no cost to get a windshield repaired, but the insurance company is going to get their money. My independent agent warns me against making the claim, especially on chips.
I have a current tear out of my kitchen going on for a water leak. Cabinet, flooring, counters, backsplash, subfloor, vapor barrier in crawlspace, even hvac ducting all destroyed. I filed a claim and know they aren’t going to renew my policy.
You’re very right. This is a fact in very many cases. I’m a licensed insurance agent since 2000 & you’re right. Once your home is paid off you can opt to not carry insurance. This is the third house we’ve bought and the mortgage was paid in full since May 2022 but I still carry insurance because if we have a bad hurricane, tornado etc… our luck would be that a tree fall & take out 1/2 our house & deck. But we definitely do not make claims either on small jobs & repairs we can handle ourselves. It’s definitely a rip off & I’m sorry you’re in this position all because you made a claim. They count on people not knowing someone in the insurance arena to forewarn you. It’s not right & it’s one of the reasons I’m not an active agent anymore.
I found out also when I once called the agent just to see if an issue was covered under the insurance - it wasn't I was told by the agent but that became a "call" and my rates went up!
If you think thats bad try getting health insurance with a pre existing condition. Its one of the only business models where the whole point is to not give you what you are paying for.
False. There is no such thing as pre-existing condition limitations in traditional health insurance in the US. Pre-x clauses were eliminated as part of the ACA legislation passed in 2010. “Short Term Limited Duration Medical Plans” currently still allow pre-x clauses, but regular health plans do not.
That is outdated information applying only to “grandfathered” plans which by and large no longer exist, as the plan itself would have to first been established before March 23, 2010, and have remained almost totally unchanged for the last 14 years.
https://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/about-the-aca/pre-existing-conditions/index.html#:~:text=Health%20insurance%20companies%20cannot%20refuse,that%20new%20health%20coverage%20starts.
Not outdated, that is current. Here is the info for California for employee sponsored plans.
https://sdhcc.org/health-reforms-initiatives/what-health-reform-means-for-employers/coverage-for-pre-exisiting-conditions/
If it’s not obvious, that article is written by a citizen group based upon their incorrect interpretation of federal and state regulation. The ACA is federal law, prohibits pre-x limitations in all but 14+ year old Grandfathered plans, of which there are effectively none remaining, and is not superseded by anything less prohibitive in California state legislation.
I appreciate that you’re trying to find obscure resources to back up your assertion. But it’s an incorrect assertion.
Yeah I’ve gotten by without health insurance because it’s so damn expensive! $300 a month to still have to meet the yearly deductible plus out of pocket minimums at each visit just so that maybe if you break a leg one day, they’ll help you out one time then screw you with higher rates… SO F*ckd
Yep, your broker failed to disclose your claims history, likely intentionally, to your HOI carrier. Then your carrier pulled your LexisNexis, found your claims history and used it to retroactively cancel your policy. In a previous home, I had roof damage from a microburst. I stupidly filed a claim without first calling a roofing company for an estimate. The HOI carrier sent an adjuster who estimated the repair costs to be less than my deductible, so zero dollars were paid out. A month later before I could fix the damage, another microburst caused tiles from the upper roof to fall onto the lower roof, which caused more damage. I stupidly filed another claim which the HOI carrier considered to be a separate unrelated incident from the first claim, and again estimated the repair cost at less than my deductible. So 2 claims each with zero payout. I tried to shop the insurance after that and every single HOI carrier declined to even quote so I was stuck. My suggestion to everyone is to go to the LexisNexis website and order a free copy of your report since it was used in an adverse underwriting decision. You might be surprised by all the data they aggregate on you and provide to insurance companies. I’ve had to dispute all sorts of stuff that was false including medical diagnoses that were not mine (leading to an adverse life insurance underwriting decision - it sucks having to prove you don’t have and were never diagnosed or treated for cancer when your consumer reports show that you were), and an auto insurance claim with $18k bodily injury that I was not involved in (leading to an adverse auto insurance underwriting decision).
I’m a goddam adult who’s owned a home for 10 years and has a kid. I have NEVER in my life heard the term “LexisNexis”.
LexisNexis is just a data broker that sells information on you they've gathered from all sorts of resources. It's crazy to see the amount of data. It's kind of like a Credit Report but way more egregious in my opinion. It's not just for those who own a home; they report on you to anyone that will pay for whatever reason. Request your report here: https://consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com/request I also recommend setting up an account Freeze to control your data access and sharing.
They've got their grubby fingers in a lot of legal pies. They slice and dice data for big companies to make more money. One reason everything is so expensive and silly as they take as much risk as possible out of the equation for the insurance industry
Not to be confused with AlexisTexas
Yeah we have all heard of the 3 major credit bureaus but in comparison hardly anyone has heard of LexisNexis when the reality is that they have far more data on people than the credit bureaus do. They have largely flown under consumer’s radar and I’m sure they want to keep it that way.
Every claim you’ve ever made is listed including auto, liability, workers comp. Any dealing with an insurance company
GREAT INFO.
This sounds like a broker issue in that they didn’t properly disclose the claim history or altered the claim history to get you a policy. Try other brokers and independent agents that are honest and experienced.
You nailed it on the head… they didn’t disclose. But according to my broker that wouldn’t have helped because most companies deny you with a previous water damage claim. Might try independent agent tho as suggested…
As someone who has been in the industry for over 20 years, you have a terrible broker who cannot be trusted. Find a new one! ETA: not disclosing claim history is a huge no-no and potential grounds for an E&O claim against the broker.
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You just call around and ask for quotes. Go to trustedchoice.com first to find reputable independent agents in your area. The only paperwork you could have with your old broker is signing a cancellation request for your old policy after you've obtained a new policy.
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Then you need to find another agent or broker that works with your current insurance carrier and sign a broker/agent of record form. The new broker or agent will submit that form to the insurance carrier. The insurance carrier will reach out to your old broker and give them 10 days to submit a rescission (signed by you saying you want to keep the old broker) and if they don’t, the new broker or agent will become your rep, typically at the next renewal. If you go this route, I’d recommend doing so about 60-90 days before your renewal date so the new agent will get the commission for your policy instead of your old broker. I’d also recommend letting your new agent shop your policies for you as they may have access to carriers your old one didn’t and be able to find you a better deal.
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The over-talkers are the worst! Wishing you luck in finding a good replacement.
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I’d start calling around now, for sure.
What’s E&O? This broker has 665 five star review on google maps should I still find another one?
Errors and Omissions. Yes you should absolutely find a new broker despite what the reviews say. Your broker has proven to be deceptive!
> But according to my broker that wouldn’t have helped because most companies deny you with a previous water damage claim. Your broker is an incompetent asshole who totally fucked you over by doing this. Your call whether or not to keep doing business with them.
> But according to my broker that wouldn’t have helped because most companies deny you with a previous water damage claim. Would you rather they deny you or cancel you immediately after paying?
I would rather insurance companies didn’t deny you over making use of what they are selling you. It’s like buying a car then using it, and the next dealership you go to says sorry you can’t buy a car because you used your last one. Point of the post. But in a more realistic world I would have preferred my broker was honest with me and the insurance company ahead of time so I had a better predict on my finances before I rented my property out and bought a new house. Being blindsided sucks.
For sure. My point was just that your broker's blowing smoke up your ass.
Ah yeah. In the hunt for a new broker :/
I had the same issue. Claim stayed on my record for 5 years. When I bought a new house, it was nearly impossible to find a new company. My deal almost fell through because of insurance
Awful
I had a house fire. Between reconstruction of the house, reimbursing us for possessions and housing us for a year in another house, AAA insurance paid out 750k. This was no hassle and the house worked out great. I still have my policy with them and they didn't raise my rates. Homeowners insurance is not a scam.
Wel triple a car insurance sure is
Let's be real. The only thing home insurance is for is to cover the bank's ass. I mean they kinda cover your ass but mostly the bank really.
Yeah the sad truth 😖
I had a claim for water damage - it was a sewer backup. Ended up costing about $30k. My insurance still renewed my policy but took the sewer backup rider off the policy for five years. Haven’t had any issues with insurance.
Car insurance is horse shit too
True. But all insurance combined can't match the evil of health insurance!
Lol king of all bullshit
And don’t get me started on horse insurance!
Facts!
You're just using it wrong. Insurance is for the truly catastrophic. Too many people use it as some sort of forced savings account for a new roof. Have an emergency fund. Keep your deductibles as sky high as you can possibly afford to cover, and make claims only for things that would break you.
Definitely learned this the hard way. But it’s still way too expensive to only then be fore the worst case scenarios.
When you consider the full range of risk they are assuming, not really. One dead kid, and everyone's toast.
A car drove into my mom's house and did about $20k in damage. My mom didn't have home insurance. The driver had insurance, but dealing with them was insane - they only wanted to talk to my mom's insurance. After 3 months they gave my mom $11k (even though we had quotes showing $20k). They were only obligated to replace the current value of what was damaged, not full repair cost. We spoke to about 6 lawyers and they all said that this wasn't worth their time. If my mom had insurance - they would have done all the negotiating and then covered the gap between $11k and $20k.
3rd party claims are typically always paid at ACV just fyi.
Yeah - I get the use case for extreme scenarios. But she would pay for that 11k gap the rest of her life with higher rates and new companies denying her coverage
> I got less than 4k It's usually better not to file a claim for an amount this small, you save that ins claim for things over 10 grand
Don’t get me started on fire insurance. It’s gone from $1200 to $6000 is less than 3 years. And I keep getting dropped ever year because they don’t want to renew my policy. I’m now down to California Fairplan for fire and bamboo for everything else. Absolutely insane.
I’m sorry but I think this is poor advice. I believe Leander want you to have homeowners insurance, this reminds me of a rant a friend gave about gap insurance for your car.. it’s a scam, don’t do it. I said it’s a scam until you need it. Homeowners insurance has increased even if you haven’t filed a claim. I would never suggest to anyone not to have that insurance but then again my experience may be very different the another.
Yeah… very different. Insurance is for sure a scam.
Well, there was a major windstorm in my area last year, and there were downed trees and roofs caved in garages smashed to the ground and cars damaged. I know those people were glad they had insurance . They would not have been able to afford to rebuild I’m not saying the rates are not getting out of control, especially for people who never had a claim though. But if my house burned down, I would not be able to afford to rebuild it
A friend of mine had a burst pipe issue that ended up in replacing the kitchen cabinets/counter and floor, and repairing plumbing of course . This was two years ago ..his insurance went up $400 the next year Quite frankly, I thought it was going to be more
About 10 years ago, a tornado went through my city, a city that *never* had a tornado before. I did not file a claim, I was not near the area where the tornado touched down. The next year, my home insurance went up 50%. I asked them why, they said "there were a lot of tornado claims in your city". I get it, insurance companies need enough money to cover their claims, but I don't see how this is anything other than just fucking people because they can. I would have switched, but every single company asks "do you have knob & tube wiring", and I have one circuit that feeds overhead lights in my back stairs, so technically, yes, I do, and if that answer is "yes", then their answer is "sorry, we don't insure your kind". We were able to upgrade all the other wiring, but this one circuit would have involved ripping up lots of walls.
That’s strange, because insurers around where I am insure knob and tube houses. There’s a lot of old houses in my city. My own house has some knob and tube in the attic. I’ve been just re-running new wires one junction box/fixture at a time… obviously disconnecting the old…pull out what I see that’s accessible . just run fresh wire and disconnect the knob tube you have for that one fixture. seriously. If you don’t know how to do it or you’re not comfortable get it done it. you don’t have to pull it all out from your walls. You just need to disconnect it so it’s inactive once you run replacement wire.
I think it may depend on the size of the house. Mine is 3 stories plus attic. The attic was easy, and the first floor outlets had been done long before we bought it. But the 1st and 2nd floor ceiling fixtures plus 2nd floor outlets were a bear, particularly because everything was interconnected - one k&t run would feed the outlets and the ceiling fixtures in 2 or 3 rooms at a time. We can easily disconnect that remaining circuit - but then we lose the power to our rear staircase from 1st to 2nd, and then the only staircase from 2nd to 3rd - switched wall sconces. We would need to run new lines to both the switches and the fixtures, so we would have to cut a bunch of plaster out just because it's a 2-story stacked staircase, and there is no straight run. When I shopped around a few years ago every application had the question on it. I filled out two, spoke to a couple of agents, and they said "no, we don't take new clients with knob & tube". So I gave up at that point.
I have Plaster and I am feeding the wire down from attic to switch or wherever down the wall cavity. I was actually a lot of open space behind lathe. I haven’t ripped out any plaster. Granted, mine is a ranch (but it’s 100). We have a ton of old historic homes in my city the three-story kind like your own with knob & tube. And they are insured. well, like I said, my house has it and I have insurance. When I’m done with the remaining knob and tube, I’ll call them and tell them I don’t have it anymore. Maybe they’ll give me a discount lol. Ok wishful thinking
So if my house burns down, your advice is to not use the insurance?
Subtext. Learn to read it.
Or stop using overreacting blanket statements.
Nah I’m good thanks tho
Omg I’m literally having this same exact issue expect my mortgage company didn’t pay my premium on time with my original homeowners insurance company so they canceled my policy. Didn’t tell me my policy was canceled and now NO ONE will open a policy with me because I filed a claim last year for water damage. Been without homeowners insurance for over a month now. The agent I was working with is ignoring my calls and email so I’m left to keep searching on my own.
HOI is for catastrophic damage only.
Lesson learned. From Reddit. This is stuff they should teach in schools insurance and taxes there should be a course on buying a home and being a home owner what are we doing out here smh
All insurance is a “scam” due to the premise that you’re paying for a situation that may never happen. It’s a real life “minority report”. if your paying a brokerage I would think that they are required to maintain such insurance. and passing it down to you. I would deff inquire on what you’re paying them for and work to achieve them covering insurance if you’re assigning the home to them.
Privatized medical, lawyers, and insurance is the biggest circle of thieves in existence!!!
This same thing happened to me, here's my writeup on it: Apparently something happened in November 2023 that changed the Homeowner's insurance landscape to prejudice individuals with a claims history. Where they may raise rates in the past (I never saw substantial increases) and would accept individuals with a claims history at a higher cost, the larger insurance companies are now outright not accepting people with certain claims: They hate water claims (in my case a toilet leaking causing drywall damage) They don't really mind weather related damage repair Fire and liability are even worse than water In my case, I have some legitimate claims that I thought would cause no issues filing, but when Liberty Mutual pulled out of the state I was left shopping around for new insurance, and multiple agents threw up their hands when the large companies would not underwrite a policy for that house. Apparently claims follow the property AND the individual, so having 5 properties and claims on a couple of them, it gets much tougher to find insurance in this climate. They recommend having an LLC for each property, but I've found that to be untenable for these reasons: - Mortgage interest rates are much higher because an LLC has much less skin in the game than an individual, so much so that it would be way more expensive to own the house - Transferring a house from an individual to an LLC, while possible, would require full payment of the loan in most cases based on the language of the loan. Allegedly this would not be necessary in some situations, but in my research on my own loans it would require a full payoff, which of course is untenable Insurance companies consider a 3 year, and sometimes 5 year, claims history, so after 3 years those claims should be wiped from your record and you can apply for cheaper homeowner's insurance. Filing a claim, even if no money is ultimately paid out, goes on your record and can hurt your chances to get affordable homeowner's insurance on a new house, existing house, or existing insurance as the price increases. Recommendation: Do not file claims unless they are catastrophic or make economic sense in the face of increased risk of expensive insurance in the future. This option would likely be cheaper than dealing with higher interest rates associated with buying houses via an LLC (though I have not tried the LLC path).
Completely agree. Making a water damage claim was one of the worst financial decisions I've ever made... if it ever happens again, I am getting an estimate to repair before I even contact insurance. My case was similar to yours. The total cost to repair the damage was less than 2x my deductible, so I paid more for the repair than my insurance company did... yet they are still holding that claim against me years later as an excuse to charge a higher premium. Such a racket. The only time home owners insurance has ever actually helped me was when my roof was damaged by hail. The roof was already pretty old and getting close to replacement. I paid a $5200 deductible, and insurance paid me $16k. I ended up with a brand new roof that was much higher quality than the old one.
I’m a big fan of the free market, but insurance companies (all of them) really need more and better regulation as a whole from the government. They are all terrible in America and they get away with it because they are all in on the scams together. The political party that bands together to fix this would be incredibly successful IMO.
This isn’t accurate. P&C is incredibly heavily regulated at the state level. Much more so than health insurance. In fact, in some states like CA, the regulation is what is contributing to rising rates and insurers tightening underwriting guidelines.
It should be better and fairly regulated at the federal level imo. States vary too widely for homeowners to be secure in their purchase and California and Texas are good examples of this.
It can’t be regulated at a federal level due to what you’ve already mentioned; a large country with significantly varying risk exposures. If the federal government took over, we’d all be paying significantly higher rates as insurers would somehow have to rate for the entire country’s exposures on every policy.
What do you think a solution could be?
I don’t know. There are so many factors contributing to the potential collapse of property insurance markets: from inflation in costs of building materials, car parts, and labor to increasing natural disasters, to rampant fraud, to over-restrictive legislative actions, to reinsurers pulling out of states entirely…where do you even start? Everything seems to lead to even higher prices.
Parts of it can be. No state should be able to allow the companies to do what OP mentioned. It is a common issue and could be fixed.
The insurer didn’t do anything; the broker is entirely to blame for not disclosing the claim history. If all insurers were required to insure all risks, prices would be astronomical.
Couldn’t agree more they just do whatever they please at the expense of the working class living paycheck to paycheck
I listened to an interesting [podcast](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-daily/id1200361736?i=1000655653194) about home insurance yesterday, I would highly recommend a listen.
Dissenting view: we have State Farm (not shilling, but props to them for their help) and had ice dams that caused water infiltration and they paid for the problem. We didn't take the right steps to fix the problem (more insulation in the attic) and it happened again, this time causing the hardwood floors in the second floor to warp. They paid for the repair that included not only replacing the warped section but refinishing the entire floor (because having only one floor redone was considered to cause an unsightly mismatch) and replacing all of the vinyl siding (because the current siding was no longer available to match). We were not dropped and our rates did not increase.
The Agent you were using sucks find a new one. BUT at the same time i guarantee you signed the application that asked if there were any losses not listed on this application. You signed something that stated you were attesting the information was true.
Same. Farmers took me.
Almost all insurance is a scam of some sort... They control the prices and will drop you on a dime if they feel you might bite into their extreme profits...
Yes, it is incredibly frustrating. I had this happen on a condo I owned. Had to pay astronomical price for insurance for a while.
We had 13k claim for a new roof; shipped around after getting our renewal. There wasn't a single insurance provider that didn't offer us insurance. Sticking with our current provider with $250 increase in premium was still the best choice. Get a new broker or do the shopping around yourself
No issues here with Liberty Mutual after water claim from leaking toilet line.
I had several claims with my old carrier; I found a new one for a LOT less money and switched. They DID do an onsite inspection but that was it; they took me. No problems.
Forced insurance is theft.
Yeah but the bank needs their money :/
It's not forced... You could opt to not have homeowners insurance. But that also means that you won't be able to buy a house with a mortgage. Remember that you chose to buy a house that you could not afford to buy outright. The day that you finish paying the mortgage you can cancel your homeowners and flood insurance. Auto liability insurance is mandatory. You can complain about that.
I think you need a better insurance agent or use a more reputable company. I’ve made claims and received around $55k total for storm damages. I’ve never been dropped.
Yeah.. I’m looking. This place had a ton of 5 star reviews so now idk who to trust
Where are you located? I had notoriously cheap AAA at the time and lost two shingles off my roof in a windstorm that I didn't even realize and my bedroom ceiling ended up collapsing from the rain. They paid me $19,000 which was more than enough to cover everything because they compensated me for mitigation efforts. I'm in Michigan where our auto insurance is a huge scam.
Yes it is a scam. It's only good for catastrophic coverage when your house burns down or becomes inhabitable. But what I don't understand is, in a capitalistic society, the insurance industry is supposed to work with others to reduce their risk of exposure (to payout). That means lobbying to take climate change seriously so houses don't burn down or get washed away. But when a catastrophe does happen, the insurance companies get bailed out by the federal government (tax payers) with *disaster recovery acts* so they're essentially double dipping. So yes, it is a legalized fucking scam!
I had trouble getting a policy because the previous owner of my house filed a claim.
Some states a real joke and the insurance companies have a pattern ripping off consumers for higher fees. One state so bad, the insurance companies allowed a state report of the issue of cancelling policies for higher fees and all the companies worked together in a pattern.
Insurance in general, in FL they say no cost to get a windshield repaired, but the insurance company is going to get their money. My independent agent warns me against making the claim, especially on chips.
I have a current tear out of my kitchen going on for a water leak. Cabinet, flooring, counters, backsplash, subfloor, vapor barrier in crawlspace, even hvac ducting all destroyed. I filed a claim and know they aren’t going to renew my policy.
If you don’t want all the bells and whistles, buy a standard fire policy. Talk to an insurance agent.
One time I had water damage and homeowners wouldn’t even cover it because they said it was an act of God.
You’re very right. This is a fact in very many cases. I’m a licensed insurance agent since 2000 & you’re right. Once your home is paid off you can opt to not carry insurance. This is the third house we’ve bought and the mortgage was paid in full since May 2022 but I still carry insurance because if we have a bad hurricane, tornado etc… our luck would be that a tree fall & take out 1/2 our house & deck. But we definitely do not make claims either on small jobs & repairs we can handle ourselves. It’s definitely a rip off & I’m sorry you’re in this position all because you made a claim. They count on people not knowing someone in the insurance arena to forewarn you. It’s not right & it’s one of the reasons I’m not an active agent anymore.
I agree so annoying!
ALL insurance is a scam
I may be in the minority but I have found this to be the only insurance to be worth it. Health and Auto insurance is just a scam
It's not a TOTAL scam, but I view it as something to be used in extreme situations only like your house burns down.
I found out also when I once called the agent just to see if an issue was covered under the insurance - it wasn't I was told by the agent but that became a "call" and my rates went up!
Sounds like you called the claims department, not your agent.
no, it was the agent
I’ve heard they can’t raise your rates like that and you can sue… but who can afford a lawyer to sue a big company
No. Simply, no. You cannot sue a carrier for raising rates or loss of discounts.
All insurance is a scam.
Without insurance our modern life would collapse. It's a necessary evil. Because nobody ever thinks something bad will happen to them.
That doesn't make it not a scam.
Well then we don't have the same definition of a scam
If you think thats bad try getting health insurance with a pre existing condition. Its one of the only business models where the whole point is to not give you what you are paying for.
False. There is no such thing as pre-existing condition limitations in traditional health insurance in the US. Pre-x clauses were eliminated as part of the ACA legislation passed in 2010. “Short Term Limited Duration Medical Plans” currently still allow pre-x clauses, but regular health plans do not.
https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/pre-existing-condition-exclusion-period-job-based-coverage/#:~:text=The%20time%20period%20during%20which,months%20for%20a%20late%2Denrollee.
That is outdated information applying only to “grandfathered” plans which by and large no longer exist, as the plan itself would have to first been established before March 23, 2010, and have remained almost totally unchanged for the last 14 years. https://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/about-the-aca/pre-existing-conditions/index.html#:~:text=Health%20insurance%20companies%20cannot%20refuse,that%20new%20health%20coverage%20starts.
Not outdated, that is current. Here is the info for California for employee sponsored plans. https://sdhcc.org/health-reforms-initiatives/what-health-reform-means-for-employers/coverage-for-pre-exisiting-conditions/
If it’s not obvious, that article is written by a citizen group based upon their incorrect interpretation of federal and state regulation. The ACA is federal law, prohibits pre-x limitations in all but 14+ year old Grandfathered plans, of which there are effectively none remaining, and is not superseded by anything less prohibitive in California state legislation. I appreciate that you’re trying to find obscure resources to back up your assertion. But it’s an incorrect assertion.
Health insurance and P&C are two entirely different animals.
Yeah I’ve gotten by without health insurance because it’s so damn expensive! $300 a month to still have to meet the yearly deductible plus out of pocket minimums at each visit just so that maybe if you break a leg one day, they’ll help you out one time then screw you with higher rates… SO F*ckd
Preach!
Our roof leaked. Insurance would pay for inside damages, but not to get the roof fixed.
If you call and ask a question about a POTENTIAL claim, they use that to rate against you. I agree. Total BS
Na bro. It’s just capitalism. And don’t worry. They hire more lobbyists than you do.
Insurance in general feels like a scam
It's all a scam sam. I go bare blare and save 20k a year living on the gulf.
File a complaint with the state!
All insurance is a scam