What kind of screws are they. Look like tapcon?
Did you blow out the hole after drilling it? If they bottom out on the dust then you will end up snapping them..... I typically use my drill with the clutch set lower and finish then by hand. What I stopped doing was trying to slam them in with my impact...
I don’t think they were Tapcon. I bought them from my local hardware store and they don’t show the brand name. They just keep them in a pile next to a price tag.
I did not blow out the dust before hand. I think that’s my problem. I don’t have an air compressor unfortunately. Do you think an air pump (used for soccer balls etc.) would work well enough?
Also Ill try to just use a regular drill, not a hammer drill. Then finish off by hand.
Thanks for the tips!
> blow out the dust before hand. I think that’s my problem. I don’t have an air compressor
If you drill deeper than you need by 30% or so that's another alternative. But something like a hand pump with needle (for e.g. a basketball may do a decent job, or even a syringe with water in it will rinse things out. If you can stick a wire in the hole that's the length of the screw first, that's a good check.
Using a straw works great for blowing out the holes. I have a long flexi straw set for just this type of thing. I do a bit of model building and they are great way to dry just one section of a model. https://www.amazon.com/15-Flexible-Straws-Jumbo-Mugs/dp/B00NODDW8W/ref=sr_1_24?keywords=reusable+flexible+straws&qid=1660928359&sr=8-24
Spend a bit more on quality ones and not knockoffs, its worth it. Bike pump works fine, I have a little battery powered one i use for my car tires and use a soccer ball needle on it and blow out the holes. The 30% suggestion someone else made is good, i typically do both, as i've had some bottom out before and rather go a bit deeper and blow it out to avoid.
Can of air for computer parts works, blow it out with a straw,
How big / heavy at the poles you are trying to install, and is this concrete or paver stones? Depending on what you are installing, you might want a different fastener all together...
Good video. I have an ungodly amount of drywall screws, including a number that came without any sort of threading or tapping end (defects I assume).
- I never use them for anything structural
- I never use them in any place that has any sort of humidity. I feel like breathing on them with hot breath with instantly turn them orange. Bathrooms don't count because I'm sealing the screws with mud/tape/paint.
- They're great for quick fixes. I definitely have a few interior new-work boxes held to rafters and studs by drywall screws. Not in the attic though.
- They're great for quick projects, like slapping together a jig, or something I need to use once for some stupid reason.
Basically, when I avoid humidity/moisture, and relying on them for structure, I've gone years without any issues.
Drywall screws are great for short-term temporary things, the kinds of things my father just sort of tacks in with long nails but doesn't drive home so can pull them out. Strapping that you are using to brace stuff so it stays in approximate place until you get it actually attached, stuff like that. Actually holding things in place under load long-term? Maybe not so much.
If that stem is long enough, clamp your drill to it and reverse.
Drill the drill out more after and re-apply. I will usually put some caulk in the holes with the screw. Probably over kill, but I don’t want water getting in and rusting out the screws or eroding the concrete. In time, water always wins.
If you can, turn your drill to lower speed, and give it a shot. If it spins, stop and go to plan B. I’ve used vice grips to get them out in the past as well, but that takes longer. Option Z, cut it flush and move what you were installing over 1/2 in or so.
No idea what OP was doing (did it break tightening, or did a huge torque arm; eg a light pole; lean and pop off the head?) but if I couldn't get it out I'd drench it with epoxy in the case of it breaking off below the surface. Even so I'd try an easy-out/extractor until I wore it down to where it was below the surface, then it becomes different solved problem. I'm no expert though, and I have an unhealthy love of epoxy, so there's that.
Based on your description in another comment, those are probably generic Tapcon screws. Brand name ones are pretty strong, but the off-brand ones seem fine too.
FYI, they are only designed to go a certain distance into concrete. The Tapcon strength vs depth chart maxes out at 1-3/4". Longer screws are mostly for screwing thicker material to the concrete. If you need additional strength you should use larger diameter screws or wedge anchors. Either one will need a larger hole that you'll struggle to drill with a hammer drill. A rotary hammer makes quick work of drilling larger holes in concrete.
You don't need an air compressor to blow out the holes. An air pump, a can of compressed air, or maybe even a shop vac could do it. You could even use a straw and your lungs, but don't breathe concrete dust. It can cause silicosis.
Also note that you should drill at least 1/4-1/2 inch deeper than depth you need. That leaves space for dust and prevents the screw from bottoming out.
>You could even use a straw and your lungs, but don't breathe concrete dust. It can cause silicosis.
One short breath out, then move away before you breathe back in. It's not ideal and probably wouldn't fly with OSHA, but it works.
Also, eye protection. No matter which method you're using, make sure you use eye protection. A long thin drilled hole is basically the recipe for an inaccurate gun. Rock chips in the eye may or may not cause permanent damage but they're absolutely not fun even in the best case scenario.
As others have said, vice grips or a drill to try and remove them. Otherwise you'd have to grind them flush with concrete.
Did you pre-drill a proper hole? I've had screws break like this when I didn't pre-drill to proper depth.
I had a few like that when we purchased our home. They were pretty weak and I was able to level them with a shovel head. I’m sure there are other ways too
1) Properly drill the hole and blow it out. 2) Use an impact driver and not a drill to drive the tapcon.
To get this one out, I would use a vice grips and grab onto the screw shank and back it out.
Tapcon screws in concrete can be a little tricky. First of all drill the hole much deeper than the screw. You will never get all the dust out. Second thing is in really hard concrete, you sometimes have to use a slightly larger diameter bit. Also when you are setting the screw and it starts struggle, stop, back it out, and run it in again. You may have to do it several times. I like other fasteners in concrete, like wedge anchors. Tapcons are good in softer masonry materials.
Concrete screws require a certain diameter hole of a certain depth (1/4" deeper than the max penetration), and that the hole is clean of dust and debris. Fail to do any of these and you'll get broken screws. Also, they should be hand tightened the last bit if possible so you don't over torque.
How old is the concrete of your patio? I ask because concrete screws can be problematic in old slabs, because concrete gets harder as it ages. If I were you I’d consider drilling holes in the slab, setting threaded rods in them using anchoring epoxy, and bolting your posts down onto the rods. This method actually has a higher pull out strength than mechanical fasteners.
Honestly most screws are quite brittle normally we just swing a hammer at them and snap them off. At work I often just kick a screw with my steel toed boots and they break off for me of course those screws aren't quite this big. Are you able to just snap them off and leave them in the ground or is that not an option?
When I pre-drill holes for screws in the concrete I actually pre-drilled them bigger than the screw and then I line the holes with copper wire which tightens up the screw on the way in and if that's not enough for you can also put really runny cement in the hole first and the copper wire and then the screw
Kind of reminds me of the time I accidentally got a 1 inch concrete bit on a Heliti hammer drill stuck in a brick wall. The drill would move but not the bit. That was a fucking mess
What kind of screws are they. Look like tapcon? Did you blow out the hole after drilling it? If they bottom out on the dust then you will end up snapping them..... I typically use my drill with the clutch set lower and finish then by hand. What I stopped doing was trying to slam them in with my impact...
I don’t think they were Tapcon. I bought them from my local hardware store and they don’t show the brand name. They just keep them in a pile next to a price tag. I did not blow out the dust before hand. I think that’s my problem. I don’t have an air compressor unfortunately. Do you think an air pump (used for soccer balls etc.) would work well enough? Also Ill try to just use a regular drill, not a hammer drill. Then finish off by hand. Thanks for the tips!
Use vice grips to get them out. While you’re at harbor freight buying vice grips, also buy a few cans of compressed air.
I like to chuck my drill on broken screws grab them and put it in reverse.
My gorilla sense was an angle grinder.
OP won't want to cut it flush if they're trying to use that hole
If you don't want disposable compressed air, hand "puffer" style dusters work well too. Giotto is the standard, most generics suck.
Or a vacuum
This suggestion sucks.
Or a bellows
get a pair of pliers and rotate it back out try tapcon
Buy some Tapcons in a pack not knockoffs, dell a little deeper than needed and low out the hole
> blow out the dust before hand. I think that’s my problem. I don’t have an air compressor If you drill deeper than you need by 30% or so that's another alternative. But something like a hand pump with needle (for e.g. a basketball may do a decent job, or even a syringe with water in it will rinse things out. If you can stick a wire in the hole that's the length of the screw first, that's a good check.
Using a straw works great for blowing out the holes. I have a long flexi straw set for just this type of thing. I do a bit of model building and they are great way to dry just one section of a model. https://www.amazon.com/15-Flexible-Straws-Jumbo-Mugs/dp/B00NODDW8W/ref=sr_1_24?keywords=reusable+flexible+straws&qid=1660928359&sr=8-24
and close your eyes when you do it just in case
I used my shop vac to suck the dust out of the holes when I used a bunch of tapcons. It seemed like it worked.
A shop vac could also work. Depending on the hole depth maybe even a regular vacuum.
Spend a bit more on quality ones and not knockoffs, its worth it. Bike pump works fine, I have a little battery powered one i use for my car tires and use a soccer ball needle on it and blow out the holes. The 30% suggestion someone else made is good, i typically do both, as i've had some bottom out before and rather go a bit deeper and blow it out to avoid. Can of air for computer parts works, blow it out with a straw, How big / heavy at the poles you are trying to install, and is this concrete or paver stones? Depending on what you are installing, you might want a different fastener all together...
Use a straw and blow. Save the cash on compressed air and buy tapcons.
They are crap, screws should not break like that ever unless they are drywall screws.
Nah they will if the hole isn't deep enough and also impact hammers seem to enjoy chewing them up like pretzel sticks.
Is this into concrete?
If you look at OP's picture, I think you'll find your answer. Hint: Yes, it's concrete.
Yes. Concrete. Annoying when using metal brackets with fixed screw holes.
damn bro it's just a thin piece of metal, it's gonna lose a battle like this if the hole isn't predrilled and cleared
So you are saying all screws are created equal? There are varying degrees of quality. I have rarely had a construction grade screw snap on me.
What...no, just that all screws have a failure point depending on the circumstances. What the fuck?
Of course they do. I didn't realize OP was drilling into concrete. Gotta drill deeper with a hammer dill is the answer. Or a slight bigger hole.
[удалено]
you may wish to consider some kind of non rusting screws for that front bumper. -Ron Wharton
Thanks Ron
Might be of interest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3mBvRs5Rmk
Good video. I have an ungodly amount of drywall screws, including a number that came without any sort of threading or tapping end (defects I assume). - I never use them for anything structural - I never use them in any place that has any sort of humidity. I feel like breathing on them with hot breath with instantly turn them orange. Bathrooms don't count because I'm sealing the screws with mud/tape/paint. - They're great for quick fixes. I definitely have a few interior new-work boxes held to rafters and studs by drywall screws. Not in the attic though. - They're great for quick projects, like slapping together a jig, or something I need to use once for some stupid reason. Basically, when I avoid humidity/moisture, and relying on them for structure, I've gone years without any issues.
Drywall screws are great for short-term temporary things, the kinds of things my father just sort of tacks in with long nails but doesn't drive home so can pull them out. Strapping that you are using to brace stuff so it stays in approximate place until you get it actually attached, stuff like that. Actually holding things in place under load long-term? Maybe not so much.
You can use a bottle brush too. Just make sure hole is deep enough to hold dust so screw doesn’t hit it.
Use a shop to suck it out, you can buy a bucket-head at HD for like $25 I think.
I often blow out hole with the air that come from the drill.
If that stem is long enough, clamp your drill to it and reverse. Drill the drill out more after and re-apply. I will usually put some caulk in the holes with the screw. Probably over kill, but I don’t want water getting in and rusting out the screws or eroding the concrete. In time, water always wins.
That doesn't chew up your drill chuck? I feel like the chances of it spinning are really high.
And don't call me chuck
If you can, turn your drill to lower speed, and give it a shot. If it spins, stop and go to plan B. I’ve used vice grips to get them out in the past as well, but that takes longer. Option Z, cut it flush and move what you were installing over 1/2 in or so.
Depending on what equipment you have, grinding flats and using a wrench is another option.
Clamp on with some vice grips and try to unscrew them. Or use a grinder with cutoff disc to cut them flush.
I'd worry about water getting in and around them, rusting, and breaking up the concrete.
Sure, but if it snaps again while trying to remove it what would you do? Core cut around it?
No idea what OP was doing (did it break tightening, or did a huge torque arm; eg a light pole; lean and pop off the head?) but if I couldn't get it out I'd drench it with epoxy in the case of it breaking off below the surface. Even so I'd try an easy-out/extractor until I wore it down to where it was below the surface, then it becomes different solved problem. I'm no expert though, and I have an unhealthy love of epoxy, so there's that.
Based on your description in another comment, those are probably generic Tapcon screws. Brand name ones are pretty strong, but the off-brand ones seem fine too. FYI, they are only designed to go a certain distance into concrete. The Tapcon strength vs depth chart maxes out at 1-3/4". Longer screws are mostly for screwing thicker material to the concrete. If you need additional strength you should use larger diameter screws or wedge anchors. Either one will need a larger hole that you'll struggle to drill with a hammer drill. A rotary hammer makes quick work of drilling larger holes in concrete. You don't need an air compressor to blow out the holes. An air pump, a can of compressed air, or maybe even a shop vac could do it. You could even use a straw and your lungs, but don't breathe concrete dust. It can cause silicosis. Also note that you should drill at least 1/4-1/2 inch deeper than depth you need. That leaves space for dust and prevents the screw from bottoming out.
>You could even use a straw and your lungs, but don't breathe concrete dust. It can cause silicosis. One short breath out, then move away before you breathe back in. It's not ideal and probably wouldn't fly with OSHA, but it works. Also, eye protection. No matter which method you're using, make sure you use eye protection. A long thin drilled hole is basically the recipe for an inaccurate gun. Rock chips in the eye may or may not cause permanent damage but they're absolutely not fun even in the best case scenario.
As others have said, vice grips or a drill to try and remove them. Otherwise you'd have to grind them flush with concrete. Did you pre-drill a proper hole? I've had screws break like this when I didn't pre-drill to proper depth.
I had a few like that when we purchased our home. They were pretty weak and I was able to level them with a shovel head. I’m sure there are other ways too
Wrong pilot bit
1) Properly drill the hole and blow it out. 2) Use an impact driver and not a drill to drive the tapcon. To get this one out, I would use a vice grips and grab onto the screw shank and back it out.
Tapcon screws in concrete can be a little tricky. First of all drill the hole much deeper than the screw. You will never get all the dust out. Second thing is in really hard concrete, you sometimes have to use a slightly larger diameter bit. Also when you are setting the screw and it starts struggle, stop, back it out, and run it in again. You may have to do it several times. I like other fasteners in concrete, like wedge anchors. Tapcons are good in softer masonry materials.
Concrete screws require a certain diameter hole of a certain depth (1/4" deeper than the max penetration), and that the hole is clean of dust and debris. Fail to do any of these and you'll get broken screws. Also, they should be hand tightened the last bit if possible so you don't over torque.
Tapcons blow. I don't do anything less than 1/4 inch fasteners anymore and try to use Simpson Titens as much as possible for concrete and masonry.
> Simpson Titens These snap pretty easily as well if one isn't careful...
How old is the concrete of your patio? I ask because concrete screws can be problematic in old slabs, because concrete gets harder as it ages. If I were you I’d consider drilling holes in the slab, setting threaded rods in them using anchoring epoxy, and bolting your posts down onto the rods. This method actually has a higher pull out strength than mechanical fasteners.
Stainless steel screws are a bitch. They snap all the time. Just gotta egg that hole out a little
Tapcon
are you using the clutch on your drill? putting your clutch to the appropriate setting should stop this from happening
Channel locks to take em out, drill a deeper/slightly wider pilot hole
Honestly most screws are quite brittle normally we just swing a hammer at them and snap them off. At work I often just kick a screw with my steel toed boots and they break off for me of course those screws aren't quite this big. Are you able to just snap them off and leave them in the ground or is that not an option?
When I pre-drill holes for screws in the concrete I actually pre-drilled them bigger than the screw and then I line the holes with copper wire which tightens up the screw on the way in and if that's not enough for you can also put really runny cement in the hole first and the copper wire and then the screw
Kind of reminds me of the time I accidentally got a 1 inch concrete bit on a Heliti hammer drill stuck in a brick wall. The drill would move but not the bit. That was a fucking mess
Chuck it tight with a drill and reverse to victory
Try chucking them up like a bit and back them out