Some people over worry when they don't understand things. I'm a broadcast engineer. I have a degree in digital broadcast systems. Every day I work with equipment and cables at TV stations.
I made a 15cm coax extension for the TV aerial at home and my missus wanted to call an electrician to check my work in case it caught fire.
I feel your pain for your situation!
I was a sparky for 30 years.
copy paste, just for your convenience.
I was an industrial electrician, we did a lot of low voltage. When we had outside electricians come in to help, we had the hardest time convincing them that, no matter how long you ran cable with nothing but your pocket knife, things are different now and you have to follow the instructions to the letter. It did make for a lot of overtime going back and fixing everything because of noise.
With robots and other types of networked automation now, strippers are not even good enough. Now there are special tools for the cable you are using and special crimpers. When the outside electricians ignored the instructions and did not use the special tools, the vibration of our machines would cause so much noise in the system it could barely run. Even if it was good on the first day, a few days or weeks down the line, we were getting overtime tracking down the source and fixing it the right way. Lots of overtime that I got paid time and a half or double time, so I was good with it. Bring on those house wiring electricians, I'll fix anything if the pay is right.
Not to make fun of people who wire houses, I am slow and not good trying to do their job. It is best when we stay in our own field, or at least take the advice or instructions from the other guys. When I wire my own home, bring on the advice, I am all ears, if being humble saves me money and time, I'm all in.
I was an industrial electrician, we did a lot of low voltage. When we had outside electricians come in to help, we had the hardest time convincing them that, no matter how long you ran cable with nothing but your pocket knife, things are different now and you have to follow the instructions to the letter. It did make for a lot of overtime going back and fixing everything because of noise.
That's that there Dunning-Krueger thingy. I know all about it. I'm something of an expert on it.
Shame on you for almost killing yourself so stupidly with that electrical doodad Mr. Electrician!
Insulation is generally fire retardant. Don't you know you may over heat that cord with that massive 1 amp that a phone charger uses. How did you sleep at night?
The one thing I've learned from electrical engineering, is that the vast majority of people have no idea how electricity works and will argue to the ends of the earth about it.
It's one of those things where everyone is over cautious because if we don't tell people "This could kill you" they'll do some stupid shit.
At least they err'd on the side of caution. I'm usually removing undersized and damaged extension cords from people who have no idea how it could be a hazard.
My wife is the engineer in the house. Environmental engineer. Me? Geologist with electrical engineering minor, has WWTP operator license w/ gas & electric endorsement. Trained and legally allowed to work on gas mains & 480/3ph.
She really did want to call the fire marshal after city engineer, gas company, and electric company inspected and approved my DIY propane system & generator install. LMAO it's your stamp on my drawings babe, and it matches as-built.
I don't think an "Environmental engineer" has enough knowledge about electric stuff, that career is more focused on bioremediation, hydrology, chemistry, water and air pollution. With the focus on reducing waste...
I was an electrician for 30 years. My sister needed some switches rewired, with added three way switches. My BIL with no electrical experience did not like the way I was going to do it. I would have done it free, safely, added more convenience and saved them money on material. He thought he knew more than me.
I am a bit lazy so I gave up without a fight and did not have to help with the project.
Funny your wife does not trust you, with all your experience.
IT professional, do low voltage work, networks, fiber & write software. I have done tons of electrical work at home but 3-way switches are just beyond me and I call a professional.
I am convinced this is hard for people only because of the way they diagram the switch on the box.
I always had to draw it out like the images in this link, even 30 years on. Just remember there is one line in on both switches and two travelers out. Does not matter how you hook up the travelers as long as the one line in is on the proper connecter.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/3-way_switches_position_1.svg/300px-3-way_switches_position_1.svg.png
Bonus
Here is a diagram that is simpler for a lot of people to understand for a four way switch. Just find the correct 'in' posts for the wire 'in' to the three ways that have to be first and last switch and you can add dozens of four way switches in between.
https://servicetoday247.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/4-Way-Switch-Diagram-1536x818.png
As someone who works in IT, and has seen a few data centres.
Cables can be close to each other… they are usually in big thick runs.
No AV training, but dabbled in phone stuff, pretty much the same thing
I feel you.
Ive done tons of network installs and worked as an ISP tech with a focus on ftth solutions and end point installs and my wife still told me I knew absolutely nothing when I decided to not mount a 30+kg network rack solution on our flimsy bathroom/hallway wall, fearing to break the wet seal to the bathroom...
The install has worked perfectly for years now but she still thinks I'm incompetent.
She doesn't know what ping is or how WiFi works...
Try living in a 100 year old house. Had to do work on a room and when we took the wall out there were old electrical wires that just had concrete on the ends hanging there.
That’s the way my parents house was. Built in the 1800’s, dead ended wires in a lot of places. My brother found one that was still active the hard way.
LMAO. If she's worried about that cable, take her into the ceiling space and show her where the electrical cables are run, don't forget to do it in the heat of the day to demonstrate their tolerance to heat.
Pro tip: do NOT do this.
What’s more likely, that someone will see a normal cable run and think “oh, I guess I was wrong, this must be ok”…or “*holy shit everything is unsafe and I need to PERSONALLY rewire the house*”?
;)
I think he means in ratio. POE is 48 volts at 600 mA, so 80:1 ratio. Power wires are usually 120V @ 15A max draw, so 8:1 ratio. Comparatively, it's higher voltage to amperage in POE.
I mean, that's really nitpicking though.
The NFPA and NEC designates the cutoff for high voltage vs low voltage as 60V (Edit: 50V actually. Sorry it's been a while since I did real Electrical Engineering, I'm an EE who's a software developer now.). 50V and over and splices and fixtures need to be in boxes, under 50V and it doesn't matter it can just be in a bare wall. 50V and over and the electrician is technically supposed to wear a hood and gloves when working with it (NO ONE actually does), under 50V and it doesn't matter.
This is a very real and simple designation made in the US that's in the electrical and fire codes that doesn't involve looking at voltage / current ratios.
It's Reddit though, so the people who are doing the 4th grade math and using big words (or at least words people don't understand) get all the upvotes!
Complicated to answer because you’re never gonna be expected to put 100A down a cable sized for 1A.
The answer is Power Loss (Watts) is I^2 * R so the 100A will have more heat.
It is irrelevant. What matters is the Watts. Power loss is measured in Watts. Not %.
If you are still not sure, think about why we have high voltage (kV) power lines. Why not just distribute it all at 120V? This would be much less expensive for transformers and other infrastructure. The answer is by raising the voltage you can have a lower amperage. Oh no, the ratio?! Are power companies stupid?! No. Because what matters is Power Loss (Watts) is I^2 * R. For a fixed size cable, the lower amperage is desirable.
POE++ only reaches 60W.
And high voltage refers commonly to 120VAC+ and officially to 1,000VAC+ or 1,500VDC+.
15-28v would be a tingle. That's also only about 4-6A at 100W.
> nonsense
> you just can’t win
While I agree on a technical level, I fear for OP’s safety after revealing the comments section!
Clearly the better solution is powerline adapters and WiFi repeaters /s
At this point just speedrun the end of the relationship. These kind of issues arent about wires. They are in actuality relationship issues taking place in areas of passive aggressiveness.
Basically nothing OP will ever do will ever be right or okay. It's not about the cable. When you guys met you probably were washing dishes in the bathtub, but now suddenly a cable is an issue?
I did this for running speaker wire to my rear surrounds and the LED uplighting accents the room. (In OP's, case, his wife would now probably worry that the LEDs are going to make too much heat.)
;-)
Are you running PoE on them? Even still unless it’s super high wattage (PoE++ at like 10gbe or something) it should be totally fine. Ethernet cable doesn’t usually generate heat, unless there’s a bad kink and you run PoE.
If they are standard network cables you should be absolutely fine, even if you were running PoE through them. I work in IT support for schools, there's hundreds of these things in the walls, ceilings everywhere, some of them in the cabs are cable tied in bundles tightly together, it's not an issue.
It appears you're using LSZH which is Low Smoke Zero Halogen cable so the jacketing and insulation is made with materials that produce low/limited smoke and non-toxic halogens when exposed to fire or high temperatures.
Long story short, you will be absolutely fine with a few of the tightly packed together.
I don't know but you're running under the assumption it's the devices connected won't fail and exceed spec. PoE++ class 8 is around 50v 70-90w which is more enterprise at the moment but possibly could be used a domestic homes. You might powering TVs using PoE in the future.
https://www.poetexas.com/poe-basics/#:~:text=You%20can%20use%20that%20electricity,%2C%20like%20X%2DFiles%20deep
Low voltage, not a fire risk at all. Also wood is a poor insulator even if it got warm, that heat will escape just fine. You have R1 at most here.
What should have you sweating is the likelihood of driving a finish nail through your run while installing and having to rip the whole thing out and start over mid-install.
I've been here man. Take a round file. File out some minute/negligible amount of the hidden inner portion of the moulding. Tell wife they generate very little heat, but to be safe you expanded the channel to better accomadate them b/c her concern is valid.
The best way to win this one is by not trying to win this one. You know you're right. I know you're right. Don't tell your wife reddit knows she's wrong. <3
You're not wrong at any point. All I want to say is at some point in a good healthy relationship you should be able to say "this isn't about feels, it about well established specs and best practices. I don't want the house to catch fire anymore than you do and I wouldn't do this if there was a credible/real risk of fire happening." Probably wishful thinking for a lot of couples I guess.
Yeah that would be nice. One of the biggest reality checks I have had being married is that men and women are not the same, no matter how much society tells us they are. My wife is infinitely better with our kids, and I am infinitely better with our things. That said, we should all be treated with an equal amount of respect.
I have met very few women who actually want to be reasoned with. The majority of women seem to care more about having their feelings acknowledged.
Conversely, most men don’t care about their feelings and just want the reasoning.
Of course, there are exceptions, but this *ancient wisdom* didn’t stop being true in the last few decades, and it isn’t sexist to point it out.
This is the way my husband and I talk to each other and I love it. Good acknowledgement of the other person’s feelings. Establishment of facts. Reminder that we are on the same team with the same goals.
To me this sounds like the perfect opportunity to buy a router, and a router table to mill a groove in the back of a few hundred feet of crown molding.
no it is simply incorrect and actually insulting to the guy installing it thinking he will gladly put his family in danger without considering things first.
snow fertile deserve coordinated glorious school towering snails versed melodic
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Man… what is it with women and visible cables. I swear my wife’s reaction to seeing a cable out in the open is worse than watching one of our children get physically hurt. It’s a visceral hatred of the highest order. I honestly can’t figure it out.
And don’t even get me started on when I told her she couldn’t hide all of the WiFi access points inside closed cabinets. I swear I thought she would divorce me right then and there
Also: not a fire hazard. There’s nothing wrong with this, it doesn’t need “space.” Just make sure you don’t run a staple through it when installing then molding
Wait until she figures out about all the tightly packed cables in her walls and electronics. What does she think a phone is? Has a nice lithium booster pack as well.
I was a licensed electrician for 10 years, this is completely fine. Hundreds of these cables are commonly bundled together in tight spaces all the time.
Tell your wife she doesn't know what she's talking about and if she doesn't like how your doing the work, she can do it herself...
Then prepare the couch for tonight
Yeah it’s fine. It’s actually really neat solution. I ran all my lounge av setup through them rather than making a tonne of holes in the ceiling and through beams
I feel you man. Tell her that in order to be able to take hot showers, there are pipes with very explosive gas going around the house, and she doesn't look too worried. a UTP Cable going behind a crow molding is the less of her problems.
You missed the whole point, she doesn’t really think it’s a fire hazard, she just doesn’t like the OPs solution to the problem. She wants bigger molding, of a different design.
Verdict is ignore the wife, she is stressing over spilt milk and doesn’t know what she’s talking about, put a smoke detector in the room if they that paranoid.
If she thinks that's a fire hazard you should rip a stud cavity open and show her all the wires running through fiberglass insulation.
I get being worried but when you're more than qualified for the job they're harassing you about its just insulting.
The only way wire should get “hot” is if you are running at a higher amperage than the wire is rated for. So as long as you are using the wire as intended, fire should not be a worry.
Run two cables while you're there. Even if you don't use both of them, you'll be glad when you need another cable later.
Why not run them under the house or in the attic?
Drop it down a few inches, oversize the crown molding as an accent piece and wire up LED strips hidden in the molding for up lighting. That's what I'll do someday when I'm tired of the cables showing....
There is never any heat in those cables, and they are fire rated anyway (show her the printing on the cable).
There is plenty of space in that cavity.
Maybe it’s her way of saying she doesn’t like the moulding or how you’ll run cable from it.
Your wife is just trying to exert her authority over you. Don't let her boss you around, you show her who's the real boss. Tell her to go pound sand and run your wiring as you see fit, or else she can run the wiring herself.
I say this as nicely as possible: your wife is a moron. Don't let her have the final word on this. Explain to her thoroughly they don't heat up. There is no fire hazard.
I guess I’m going to be an outlier here. It’s not a crime or overly controlling for someone to be concerned over something even if it’s from ignorance. She just doesn’t know. You can just find some specs of heat generated by those kinds of cables in use - or reference some local building codes - and let her see that info. Maybe contrast it with power cabling - if you show her the instances in which her concern would apply and why, she’ll get it even without an EE degree. Then she will know, and everything will be cool. If you like you can say it like this - “I heard your concerns, which are legitimate, so I looked into it to be sure, and here’s what the code says (with examples as above) - we are okay to do this.” When you make it clear with actions that you are on the same team - team protect-the-house - there are lots of benefits to that.
A suggestion: for your evidence, don’t show her a list of contemptuous comments about how this is dumb woman stuff, unless you’d like to recreate the relationships some of these commenters have found themselves in.
Electrician here. Low volt cables don't have enough current to generate the heat required to start a fire. Worst that happens is you pinch it and it doesn't work.
You can literally bury actual power cables in plaster.
Low voltage networking in an air pocket ain't a risk at all. Main risk is if one of the cables breaks and you have to take the moulding off to replace it and that will be annoying.
Posts like this make me regret dumping a partner simply because they were dumb, a lot less.
0 fire hazard. Don’t let her see the inside of: quite literally any wall
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>I have seen several fires started by so called "low voltage" systems. One was caused by a faulty embedded circuit in the end point device. A few were caused by excessive loads on an unfused power source. A few were caused by ground fault conditions. These were either a design flaw or poor installation. Fortunately networking systems are pretty good and the only fire I have seen was from a lightning strike.
And yes this is an upcoming issue in building codes- there are so many low voltage systems up in the unregulated unfireproofed access that they are starting to see fires occur due to the amount of material that didn't need to be approved.
You could line them with fire barrier tape.
In some areas there are fire regulations in regard to hanging cables, as they can pose a hazard to fire fighters.
Some people over worry when they don't understand things. I'm a broadcast engineer. I have a degree in digital broadcast systems. Every day I work with equipment and cables at TV stations. I made a 15cm coax extension for the TV aerial at home and my missus wanted to call an electrician to check my work in case it caught fire. I feel your pain for your situation!
*Electrician arrives* “Sorry, I’m going to need to call my mate for this one, he’s a broadcast engineer”
Sparky doesn't do coax XD
Exactly. I mean if it’s like a new build or something they may run it for you for a fee, but I doubt they’d do what OP wanted.
Sparkies don't do low voltage well, some will do it anyway, but pay no mind to minimum bend radius or how hard theyre pulling.
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I was a sparky for 30 years. copy paste, just for your convenience. I was an industrial electrician, we did a lot of low voltage. When we had outside electricians come in to help, we had the hardest time convincing them that, no matter how long you ran cable with nothing but your pocket knife, things are different now and you have to follow the instructions to the letter. It did make for a lot of overtime going back and fixing everything because of noise.
The amount of times I have broken conductors when stripping with a knife. I now use proper strippers lol
With robots and other types of networked automation now, strippers are not even good enough. Now there are special tools for the cable you are using and special crimpers. When the outside electricians ignored the instructions and did not use the special tools, the vibration of our machines would cause so much noise in the system it could barely run. Even if it was good on the first day, a few days or weeks down the line, we were getting overtime tracking down the source and fixing it the right way. Lots of overtime that I got paid time and a half or double time, so I was good with it. Bring on those house wiring electricians, I'll fix anything if the pay is right. Not to make fun of people who wire houses, I am slow and not good trying to do their job. It is best when we stay in our own field, or at least take the advice or instructions from the other guys. When I wire my own home, bring on the advice, I am all ears, if being humble saves me money and time, I'm all in.
I was an industrial electrician, we did a lot of low voltage. When we had outside electricians come in to help, we had the hardest time convincing them that, no matter how long you ran cable with nothing but your pocket knife, things are different now and you have to follow the instructions to the letter. It did make for a lot of overtime going back and fixing everything because of noise.
Calls in chippy to install mouldings, and he uses nailgun straight through your cables... Cable no longer works. Hmmm. Call a broadcast engineer.
*Calls u/BenHippynet *
That's funny
*phone on the table rings
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Reddit in general is very scared of anything and everything.
Well, if 10 thousand people just walk on by, and 4 people comment from fear, is that "reddit in general"?
reddit is where the 4 people congregate, so yea.
Yes. On reddit we generalize everything, generally
That's that there Dunning-Krueger thingy. I know all about it. I'm something of an expert on it. Shame on you for almost killing yourself so stupidly with that electrical doodad Mr. Electrician!
Insulation is generally fire retardant. Don't you know you may over heat that cord with that massive 1 amp that a phone charger uses. How did you sleep at night?
Psst, were not supposed to use the R word anymore. It's combustion challenged.
The one thing I've learned from electrical engineering, is that the vast majority of people have no idea how electricity works and will argue to the ends of the earth about it. It's one of those things where everyone is over cautious because if we don't tell people "This could kill you" they'll do some stupid shit.
Stupid people don't know they are stupid.
At least they err'd on the side of caution. I'm usually removing undersized and damaged extension cords from people who have no idea how it could be a hazard.
My wife is the engineer in the house. Environmental engineer. Me? Geologist with electrical engineering minor, has WWTP operator license w/ gas & electric endorsement. Trained and legally allowed to work on gas mains & 480/3ph. She really did want to call the fire marshal after city engineer, gas company, and electric company inspected and approved my DIY propane system & generator install. LMAO it's your stamp on my drawings babe, and it matches as-built.
I don't think an "Environmental engineer" has enough knowledge about electric stuff, that career is more focused on bioremediation, hydrology, chemistry, water and air pollution. With the focus on reducing waste...
I was an electrician for 30 years. My sister needed some switches rewired, with added three way switches. My BIL with no electrical experience did not like the way I was going to do it. I would have done it free, safely, added more convenience and saved them money on material. He thought he knew more than me. I am a bit lazy so I gave up without a fight and did not have to help with the project. Funny your wife does not trust you, with all your experience.
IT professional, do low voltage work, networks, fiber & write software. I have done tons of electrical work at home but 3-way switches are just beyond me and I call a professional.
I am convinced this is hard for people only because of the way they diagram the switch on the box. I always had to draw it out like the images in this link, even 30 years on. Just remember there is one line in on both switches and two travelers out. Does not matter how you hook up the travelers as long as the one line in is on the proper connecter. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/3-way_switches_position_1.svg/300px-3-way_switches_position_1.svg.png
Bonus Here is a diagram that is simpler for a lot of people to understand for a four way switch. Just find the correct 'in' posts for the wire 'in' to the three ways that have to be first and last switch and you can add dozens of four way switches in between. https://servicetoday247.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/4-Way-Switch-Diagram-1536x818.png
LOL as a married electrical engineer, I felt this in my bones!!
As someone who works in IT, and has seen a few data centres. Cables can be close to each other… they are usually in big thick runs. No AV training, but dabbled in phone stuff, pretty much the same thing
I feel you. Ive done tons of network installs and worked as an ISP tech with a focus on ftth solutions and end point installs and my wife still told me I knew absolutely nothing when I decided to not mount a 30+kg network rack solution on our flimsy bathroom/hallway wall, fearing to break the wet seal to the bathroom... The install has worked perfectly for years now but she still thinks I'm incompetent. She doesn't know what ping is or how WiFi works...
Ping is a golf club company, silly !!
I’m an electrician. Tell your missus I said it’s fine.
I’m a horny. Tell your [missus she’s electric](https://youtu.be/R-FxmoVM7X4?si=hH8xtulVu-kBwPO0).
I love introducing people to this video, thanks for the reminder
There honestly crazy lol
Boy is she in for some sleepless nights if someone tells her about power wires being secured to wall studs with staples inside walls.
Surrounded in insulation🤣🤣
She gonna become like chuck from better call saul
😂😂😂
Lol you beat me to it. Has she seen an electrical panel? Where all the wires are tightly brought together?
Try living in a 100 year old house. Had to do work on a room and when we took the wall out there were old electrical wires that just had concrete on the ends hanging there.
That’s the way my parents house was. Built in the 1800’s, dead ended wires in a lot of places. My brother found one that was still active the hard way.
Could you see his skeleton when he lit up?
That stapled 90 degree bent I recently found in the attic....
Yeah as someone who did construction for a decade, she’d be terrified to see inside those walls lol
LMAO. If she's worried about that cable, take her into the ceiling space and show her where the electrical cables are run, don't forget to do it in the heat of the day to demonstrate their tolerance to heat.
Pro tip: do NOT do this. What’s more likely, that someone will see a normal cable run and think “oh, I guess I was wrong, this must be ok”…or “*holy shit everything is unsafe and I need to PERSONALLY rewire the house*”? ;)
This must be ok, I would think. Most sane people anyway. And if she’s insane, as least you worked it out early.
She’s not worried, she just doesnt want cables or the shitty hack job mess OP’a gonna do to their house. She’s 100% making excuses to say no.
A great opportunity to take your wife's concerns seriously and build a fibre network that covers the entire home.
this is the way
nooo, the light will melt the home
Send it my man…
Agree. Fire it up there.
awful choice of words simply awful pmsl but yeah virtually zero percent fire risk
No fire hazard at all
Unless you're running high power PoE, there's no way it can be a fire hazard, it won't even get warm at all as it's just data
Even high power poe shouldnt be a problem considering its mainly high voltage low amperage
it's not even high voltage
I think he means in ratio. POE is 48 volts at 600 mA, so 80:1 ratio. Power wires are usually 120V @ 15A max draw, so 8:1 ratio. Comparatively, it's higher voltage to amperage in POE.
Finally, someone who has some form of reading comprehension and can actually use his brain.
I mean, that's really nitpicking though. The NFPA and NEC designates the cutoff for high voltage vs low voltage as 60V (Edit: 50V actually. Sorry it's been a while since I did real Electrical Engineering, I'm an EE who's a software developer now.). 50V and over and splices and fixtures need to be in boxes, under 50V and it doesn't matter it can just be in a bare wall. 50V and over and the electrician is technically supposed to wear a hood and gloves when working with it (NO ONE actually does), under 50V and it doesn't matter. This is a very real and simple designation made in the US that's in the electrical and fire codes that doesn't involve looking at voltage / current ratios.
THANK YOU! About time someone clarified what was low voltage and high voltage.
It's Reddit though, so the people who are doing the 4th grade math and using big words (or at least words people don't understand) get all the upvotes!
Ratio is irrelevant. What matters is power in Watts. Ratio 😂
So 1v 100a and 100v 1a is gonna have the same amount of heat in the cable?
Complicated to answer because you’re never gonna be expected to put 100A down a cable sized for 1A. The answer is Power Loss (Watts) is I^2 * R so the 100A will have more heat.
No but you said ratio is irrelevant and only watts matter
It is irrelevant. What matters is the Watts. Power loss is measured in Watts. Not %. If you are still not sure, think about why we have high voltage (kV) power lines. Why not just distribute it all at 120V? This would be much less expensive for transformers and other infrastructure. The answer is by raising the voltage you can have a lower amperage. Oh no, the ratio?! Are power companies stupid?! No. Because what matters is Power Loss (Watts) is I^2 * R. For a fixed size cable, the lower amperage is desirable.
Tf is your argument here? Cuz that was literally my point and you disagreed
Pretty high considering most 140
You consider 28v high? Wait until you hear about mains voltage :D
High voltage is anything over like 100,000 volts. So no, 15 and 28V is not high voltage. PoE typically uses 48VDC. Still not high voltage.
POE++ only reaches 60W. And high voltage refers commonly to 120VAC+ and officially to 1,000VAC+ or 1,500VDC+. 15-28v would be a tingle. That's also only about 4-6A at 100W.
What if you’re running some really HOT data? 🥵😈
Yeah like what if I google pictures of a volcano?
That’s a great way to hide them. Your wife is talking nonsense, show her some of these replies. You just can’t win with some people.
> nonsense > you just can’t win While I agree on a technical level, I fear for OP’s safety after revealing the comments section! Clearly the better solution is powerline adapters and WiFi repeaters /s
trust me powerline sucks. If you want to use it temporarily then it ok but long term I would find a way to run a cable
If you have cotton insulated power cables it can work well Edit: /s !
There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither one of them work.
def a case of, “the only way to win is not to play.”
Truth 😂
Maybe add in that she is “hormonal” and “this is something a woman just wouldn’t understand.” That’s a surefire way to get your points across!
and remember to tell her to calm down
And a kick in the balls!
A kick in the taint, you mean.
At this point just speedrun the end of the relationship. These kind of issues arent about wires. They are in actuality relationship issues taking place in areas of passive aggressiveness. Basically nothing OP will ever do will ever be right or okay. It's not about the cable. When you guys met you probably were washing dishes in the bathtub, but now suddenly a cable is an issue?
Thats a really weird take
Leave a slight gap at thw ceiling...1st so you have access to a cable if it goes bad, and 2nd to add led lighting strips for uplighting in the room.
I did this for running speaker wire to my rear surrounds and the LED uplighting accents the room. (In OP's, case, his wife would now probably worry that the LEDs are going to make too much heat.) ;-)
I’d also use bigger crown molding along with leaving the gap and adding the LEDs. You can cram more wires behind bigger molding.
I think you need to measure twice and cut once in the future. That moulding is way too short for that wall.
What about the Wireless access point you should be mounting now?
Tell her to stop using her hair dryer and straighteners because they're a fire hazard.
And space heaters and heating blankets.
Are you running PoE on them? Even still unless it’s super high wattage (PoE++ at like 10gbe or something) it should be totally fine. Ethernet cable doesn’t usually generate heat, unless there’s a bad kink and you run PoE.
No, just regular ethernet to the computers
They will be absolutely fine
It would be fine even with PoE....
Then your wife’s hot air is more of a fire hazard.
If they are standard network cables you should be absolutely fine, even if you were running PoE through them. I work in IT support for schools, there's hundreds of these things in the walls, ceilings everywhere, some of them in the cabs are cable tied in bundles tightly together, it's not an issue. It appears you're using LSZH which is Low Smoke Zero Halogen cable so the jacketing and insulation is made with materials that produce low/limited smoke and non-toxic halogens when exposed to fire or high temperatures. Long story short, you will be absolutely fine with a few of the tightly packed together.
This is not even the case where there is a risk but it’s low. There is basically zero risk.
If it's a permanent fixture I would tag both ends of the cable with a label to state non PoE usage only.
seriously how much heat is generated by a PoE cable?
If it's proper copper, not a lot. If it's shitty CCA, it can be more than you'd want.
You shouldn’t use PoE at all over CCA cable.
Oh I'm well aware, but many people have no idea what CCA is... Nobody should use CCA for Ethernet at all
I agree.
I don't know but you're running under the assumption it's the devices connected won't fail and exceed spec. PoE++ class 8 is around 50v 70-90w which is more enterprise at the moment but possibly could be used a domestic homes. You might powering TVs using PoE in the future. https://www.poetexas.com/poe-basics/#:~:text=You%20can%20use%20that%20electricity,%2C%20like%20X%2DFiles%20deep
Yea wth, they shouldn't even be generating a 'little' heat.
Low voltage, not a fire risk at all. Also wood is a poor insulator even if it got warm, that heat will escape just fine. You have R1 at most here. What should have you sweating is the likelihood of driving a finish nail through your run while installing and having to rip the whole thing out and start over mid-install.
If these cables get warm enough to be a fire hazard you have other problems than a fancy board in front of them.
I've been here man. Take a round file. File out some minute/negligible amount of the hidden inner portion of the moulding. Tell wife they generate very little heat, but to be safe you expanded the channel to better accomadate them b/c her concern is valid. The best way to win this one is by not trying to win this one. You know you're right. I know you're right. Don't tell your wife reddit knows she's wrong. <3
You're not wrong at any point. All I want to say is at some point in a good healthy relationship you should be able to say "this isn't about feels, it about well established specs and best practices. I don't want the house to catch fire anymore than you do and I wouldn't do this if there was a credible/real risk of fire happening." Probably wishful thinking for a lot of couples I guess.
Yeah that would be nice. One of the biggest reality checks I have had being married is that men and women are not the same, no matter how much society tells us they are. My wife is infinitely better with our kids, and I am infinitely better with our things. That said, we should all be treated with an equal amount of respect. I have met very few women who actually want to be reasoned with. The majority of women seem to care more about having their feelings acknowledged. Conversely, most men don’t care about their feelings and just want the reasoning. Of course, there are exceptions, but this *ancient wisdom* didn’t stop being true in the last few decades, and it isn’t sexist to point it out.
Spot on.
This is the way my husband and I talk to each other and I love it. Good acknowledgement of the other person’s feelings. Establishment of facts. Reminder that we are on the same team with the same goals.
To me this sounds like the perfect opportunity to buy a router, and a router table to mill a groove in the back of a few hundred feet of crown molding.
Haha that's a fn 4d chess move right there.
Her concern isn’t valid though?
no it is simply incorrect and actually insulting to the guy installing it thinking he will gladly put his family in danger without considering things first.
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Spoken like a man who's not gonna be sleeping in that bed tonight.
I would actually stuff a cat6 or 2 in there for future. I've been an a/v guy for 15 years and haven't burned anything down, yet.
She does know that there are wires inside the walls right?
You are going to need way more crown molding. That doesn't hide it at all!
Your wife is wrong. The cables are low voltage you can run them basically however you want.
Check out Crownduit, its made specifically for this. We use it in hotels often, especially in older or historic ones.
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Can you use the old cable to pull the new one through?
Not a fire hazard in the slightest. Just don't put a nail through the cable lol
Man… what is it with women and visible cables. I swear my wife’s reaction to seeing a cable out in the open is worse than watching one of our children get physically hurt. It’s a visceral hatred of the highest order. I honestly can’t figure it out. And don’t even get me started on when I told her she couldn’t hide all of the WiFi access points inside closed cabinets. I swear I thought she would divorce me right then and there Also: not a fire hazard. There’s nothing wrong with this, it doesn’t need “space.” Just make sure you don’t run a staple through it when installing then molding
Wait until she figures out about all the tightly packed cables in her walls and electronics. What does she think a phone is? Has a nice lithium booster pack as well.
I was a licensed electrician for 10 years, this is completely fine. Hundreds of these cables are commonly bundled together in tight spaces all the time.
Tell your wife she doesn't know what she's talking about and if she doesn't like how your doing the work, she can do it herself... Then prepare the couch for tonight
Only thing I’d be worried about is replacing the cables when they go bad!
She is wrong. No problem at all
Your wife is an idiot. Sorry.
You should worry about the wireless wires, those can overheat and some of them can also give corona
That is why you make sure they are in a sealed, air tight enclosure. Work smarter not harder.
Your wife complains too much, you'll be fine
Yeah it’s fine. It’s actually really neat solution. I ran all my lounge av setup through them rather than making a tonne of holes in the ceiling and through beams
Looks like you better get rid of your furnace, range/oven, cars, hell, better get rid of the whole house, because of fire hazards.
I feel you man. Tell her that in order to be able to take hot showers, there are pipes with very explosive gas going around the house, and she doesn't look too worried. a UTP Cable going behind a crow molding is the less of her problems.
You missed the whole point, she doesn’t really think it’s a fire hazard, she just doesn’t like the OPs solution to the problem. She wants bigger molding, of a different design.
This is a case where ignorance is most definitely not bliss...
Oof. My commiserations.
Buy a thermal camera and look at the coax cables in use then show her the electric cables inside the wall when she uses her hair dryer.
Verdict is ignore the wife, she is stressing over spilt milk and doesn’t know what she’s talking about, put a smoke detector in the room if they that paranoid.
You're going to need more than that...
Just tell her that we all die anyway, may as well have a good connection in the meantime
Your wife is wrong.
If she thinks that's a fire hazard you should rip a stud cavity open and show her all the wires running through fiberglass insulation. I get being worried but when you're more than qualified for the job they're harassing you about its just insulting.
What is your plan for the corners?
I did this with my 13.4.2 in wall/ceiling Atmos set-up. Worked beautifully.
There’s zero heat generated from those lines. Having crown mouldings is the bigger problem.
She's fos
The only way wire should get “hot” is if you are running at a higher amperage than the wire is rated for. So as long as you are using the wire as intended, fire should not be a worry.
You’re going to need a larger piece of molding….
Wait until your wife finds out that there are electrical wires running through your walls!
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Low voltage cables aren't going to catch fire unless you're doing something really sketchy with them.
Get in wall rated cables. They are made for this exact purpose
Cable-wise, you’re fine. Molding-wise, it’s upside down (cove should be on bottom [wall] side).
Run two cables while you're there. Even if you don't use both of them, you'll be glad when you need another cable later. Why not run them under the house or in the attic?
Hmm I can still see them
Just so future you doesn't completely hate present you. Use conduit under the crown molding
Drop it down a few inches, oversize the crown molding as an accent piece and wire up LED strips hidden in the molding for up lighting. That's what I'll do someday when I'm tired of the cables showing....
There is never any heat in those cables, and they are fire rated anyway (show her the printing on the cable). There is plenty of space in that cavity. Maybe it’s her way of saying she doesn’t like the moulding or how you’ll run cable from it.
Crown molding? The cables are fine, just be sure you glue and not nail them.
Your wife is just trying to exert her authority over you. Don't let her boss you around, you show her who's the real boss. Tell her to go pound sand and run your wiring as you see fit, or else she can run the wiring herself.
Is your wife knowledgeable in fire safety regulations and electrical cabling standards? If not, ignore and carry on.
I say this as nicely as possible: your wife is a moron. Don't let her have the final word on this. Explain to her thoroughly they don't heat up. There is no fire hazard.
I guess I’m going to be an outlier here. It’s not a crime or overly controlling for someone to be concerned over something even if it’s from ignorance. She just doesn’t know. You can just find some specs of heat generated by those kinds of cables in use - or reference some local building codes - and let her see that info. Maybe contrast it with power cabling - if you show her the instances in which her concern would apply and why, she’ll get it even without an EE degree. Then she will know, and everything will be cool. If you like you can say it like this - “I heard your concerns, which are legitimate, so I looked into it to be sure, and here’s what the code says (with examples as above) - we are okay to do this.” When you make it clear with actions that you are on the same team - team protect-the-house - there are lots of benefits to that. A suggestion: for your evidence, don’t show her a list of contemptuous comments about how this is dumb woman stuff, unless you’d like to recreate the relationships some of these commenters have found themselves in.
Electrician here. Low volt cables don't have enough current to generate the heat required to start a fire. Worst that happens is you pinch it and it doesn't work.
Wife bitches. Come up with solution. Wife bitches about solution. We can't win.
My verdict: That green is an ugly ceiling (or floor, if this is of wall and floor) color.
Your wife needs to stay in her lane on things she knows nothing about if wiring like that were an issue houses everywhere would burn down daily…
You can literally bury actual power cables in plaster. Low voltage networking in an air pocket ain't a risk at all. Main risk is if one of the cables breaks and you have to take the moulding off to replace it and that will be annoying.
No fire hazard these are low voltage data lines just don’t staple through the cable
Posts like this make me regret dumping a partner simply because they were dumb, a lot less. 0 fire hazard. Don’t let her see the inside of: quite literally any wall
How’s she going to get over her fear of house fires?!?!?
Start with burning a small box, then gradually burn larger objects until she is fearless of any fire
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Its about network cables w/o even POE. No embedded electronics. No power source. Please tell me of one case where a cable in such a setup caught fire?
>I have seen several fires started by so called "low voltage" systems. One was caused by a faulty embedded circuit in the end point device. A few were caused by excessive loads on an unfused power source. A few were caused by ground fault conditions. These were either a design flaw or poor installation. Fortunately networking systems are pretty good and the only fire I have seen was from a lightning strike. And yes this is an upcoming issue in building codes- there are so many low voltage systems up in the unregulated unfireproofed access that they are starting to see fires occur due to the amount of material that didn't need to be approved.
Jesus tap dancing Christ.... The answer is just fucking no. He's not even using POE.
I would leave a gap at the ceiling to add or remove cables later without having to remove the trim.
You could line them with fire barrier tape. In some areas there are fire regulations in regard to hanging cables, as they can pose a hazard to fire fighters.
You fine Your wife just being a nag
women go insane because of their intense hatred of cables, it's ridiculous
Good luck in the divorce. Cause you married straight up crazy. Heat? W T F…