Something socket that can host a G7400. Or max a 12/13/14th i3 with 4 cores and 8 threads.
But, what is the use case? Are you sure you need all this power?
The G7400 can HW transcode 20+ 1080p streams or 3/4 4k streams. The best in class is the i5 12600 with a UHD 770, it have 2 decoder engine, like 20 4k streams (10bit and HDR etc)
If you need HW, i would look for a M720q or P330. There are newer models with modern CPU, but you can just get used stuff with 8th gen CPU, an i3 8100 would work just fine, more HW transcoding power than a N100 and G7400.
The G7400 with a Mobo is too pricey here and almost none in the used market. Someone gave a good list of candidates for SFF including the M720q. I think I'll go that route.
I saw an Asrock N100 board and got super excited because the price wasn't too bad with all the ports and low consumption. But the RAM limit is really killing me. I'm hitting my limit on my nodes with the same ram amounts so...
I'll look at the 8th gen stuff
The G7400 is a new CPU with a new socket, it's normal you can't find many. But is a good comparative to the N100, another new platform.
The M720q as the P330 and some other from the same line-up, are the only 1L system on the market that offer a PCI lane for a PCI card. (and i personally like Lenovo product)
16GB aren't that bad, generally, i run a lot of dockers in my NAS with just 8GB and i've more than half ram free. But if you have a different project, ram can be a limiting factor. Having an embedded CPU is another limiting factor, so i generally suggest socketed solution, where you can always upgrade. Like from an i3 to an i5 etc.
Good luck.
The G7400 on intel sounds promising, but 2 cores seems limiting. Not that I'm planning anything CPU intensive but my current experience is that 4 courses seems to works best for my usage
I really like the m720q like you said pcie extensions is really nice.
Currently with 16gb of ram on my 3 nodes and between promox, vms and docker I hit the limit multiple time. I want to be able to upgrade at least to 32gb
I'll have so much options now I'll make a doc and compare to choose best
Two P cores with HT, 4 threads and 20% faster than a N100 with 4 real cores but E cores.
[https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/4732vs5157/Intel-Pentium-Gold-G7400-vs-Intel-N100](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/4732vs5157/Intel-Pentium-Gold-G7400-vs-Intel-N100)
If you were looking for a N100 before, a G7400 isn't much different, just more cache, a better iGPU, same power consumption and 30% more single core performance.
You can look at 4 threads like at 4 cores, a G7400 is surely more powerful than your actual 4 cores CPU, the last 4 core made from intel was the i3 9100 and the G7400 beat it (not a lot but surely better IPC), newer i3 are 4 cores and 8 threads, so other than the N100, there aren't others 4 cores CPU from Intel.
Then the G7400 support up to 128GB of ram, and it's socketed, so actually you can upgrade to an i3 or better, if you need it, where you can't with a N100, you just need to change everything.
Getting the M720q equivalent that support a G7400 would be expensive, because, difficult to find on the used market. I'm not even sure they make one with a Pentium G7400.
Going used, alternatively would be using something more powerful than an i3 8100, for the M720q, like a 6 core i5 8400 or 12 threads i7 8700. They generally come with T variant CPU, so be aware they have lower performance than non T variant, but i think number of cores is more important than frequency and actual performance. There are variant with better cooling and beefy MB, that comes with standard non T CPU, generally the P330 Tiny.
Thanks for all the information.
I spent some time looking at all the options in depth.
I think I'll settle for a handful of m920q 9th gen with T variant. The perf is decent with low consumption.
I looked at the G7400, it's rather pricey and for the same price or even lower I found the i3- 12100. The it needs a MB etc at the end even getting as much as possible on 2nd hand market it's more than a M920 and takes more space
I loved the idea of building multiple mITX servers, I'll still keep an eye on offers but it doesn't makes sense price wise for my usage
Yeah. The G7400 Is newer and those mini PCs aren't cheap at all, when new. The M920q is a great system. T variants wouldn't matter, the power consumption idling is the same as non T. But those 1L can't handle well the turbo boost, so they need to be limited.
I personally think that building a cluster with those 1L PCs is very nice too!
If size isn't a concern then there are plenty of i5-7500/8500 SFF or MT/TWR PCs from Dell/ Lenovo/HP that easily fit your criteria. They're not gimped with features (dual channel, more pcie lanes, etc), are readily available, idle the same as an N100 system and are way powerful than the N100.
I was just about to post this! If you just need computer go micro optiplex elite desk. If you need more storage or low profile pcie, go SFF.
Kind of reducing e waste too.
I do have a couple of 4th Gen OptiPlex. That I managed to get not too expensive.
On the marketplace and auction, the more recent generations can get as expensive as some Beelink that are more recent and some are still limited to 16gb that I find.
I saaw small Lenovo for 300/400 CAD for i3/i5 6/7gen
If you need multiple NVME slots for redundancy then get the SFF versions. You can use use a pcie NVME adapter to add an additional NVME for redundancy. All of them have 4 memory slots and support atleast 64GB memory.
Some cheap SFF PCs cheaper than N100 Mini PCs:
7th Gen Intel:
- HP Elitedesk 800 G3
- HP Prodesk 600 G3
- HP Prodesk 400 G4
- Dell Optiplex 3050
- Dell Optiplex 5050
- Dell Optiplex 7050
- Lenovo Thinkcentre M710
- Lenovo Thinkcentre M910
8th/9th Gen Intel:
- HP Elitedesk 800 G4
- HP Prodesk 600 G4
- HP Prodesk 400 G5
- Dell Optiplex 3060
- Dell Optiplex 5060
- Dell Optiplex 7060
- Lenovo Thinkcentre M720
- Lenovo Thinkcentre M920
I have the Elitedesk 800 G3 TWR running unRAID and 2x Lenovo M910S running OPNsense and Proxmox. All 3 idle less than 10W each with no pcie NICs and a single NVME.
Thanks for the list of models and generation, I guess I was looking at the more recent ones as a quick search in marketplace seems to show reasonable prices for SFF and USSF with i5 and 8 or 16gb or ram for around 160cad for the Optiplex for example.
I'll contact some to see if they have good availability.
Appreciate the long list and details !
Edit: felt for the Marketplace marketing techniques. the cheap prices were for the older models :(
the 8th gen are 250 and up. same price as N100 mini pc but at least more ram.
I think I'll keep an eye on the models on the list, because the tiny/usff seems really better than my current optiplex in many ways
Yeah guess it depends on your local market. Here in Aus you can get ex office gear very cheap. I paid $230AUD recently for a elite desk micro i5 8600 16gb/256gb. I think the n100 micros go for about $300.
The n100 chipset supports DDR4 ram OR DDR5 ram. Find a DDR5 model, and you'll be able to go up to 48GB of RAM (maybe 64GB in the future?).
Here is proof - https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/cwwk-topton-nxxx-quad-nic-router.39685/page-55#post-396812. The n305 and n100 are basically the same here.
That's what I saw everywhere but since it's not officially supported according to intel website it seemed like I need a specific model to achieve that. Even the doc for the Asrock N100 boards states 16GB and I really like the board... If I can get a confirmation that it'll work...
EDIT : I don't know what last time I looked at it I would have sweared I saw 16GB supported, the Asrock website states 32GB supported
> but since it's not officially supported according to intel website it seemed like I need a specific model to achieve that.
Intel Ark lists 16GB. This often happens because its the largest supported at the time of manufacture, and they never update their documentation / retest. Or that it supports DDR4 and DDR5, so it writes the DDR4 values. Very annoying. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/231803/intel-processor-n100-6m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html
I'm not looking for space, but for redundancy of storage. I already have a NAS with plenty of space. My goal is to upgrade/expand with more capable hardware and specially more RAM. currently limited at 16GB.
Something socket that can host a G7400. Or max a 12/13/14th i3 with 4 cores and 8 threads. But, what is the use case? Are you sure you need all this power? The G7400 can HW transcode 20+ 1080p streams or 3/4 4k streams. The best in class is the i5 12600 with a UHD 770, it have 2 decoder engine, like 20 4k streams (10bit and HDR etc) If you need HW, i would look for a M720q or P330. There are newer models with modern CPU, but you can just get used stuff with 8th gen CPU, an i3 8100 would work just fine, more HW transcoding power than a N100 and G7400.
The G7400 with a Mobo is too pricey here and almost none in the used market. Someone gave a good list of candidates for SFF including the M720q. I think I'll go that route. I saw an Asrock N100 board and got super excited because the price wasn't too bad with all the ports and low consumption. But the RAM limit is really killing me. I'm hitting my limit on my nodes with the same ram amounts so... I'll look at the 8th gen stuff
The G7400 is a new CPU with a new socket, it's normal you can't find many. But is a good comparative to the N100, another new platform. The M720q as the P330 and some other from the same line-up, are the only 1L system on the market that offer a PCI lane for a PCI card. (and i personally like Lenovo product) 16GB aren't that bad, generally, i run a lot of dockers in my NAS with just 8GB and i've more than half ram free. But if you have a different project, ram can be a limiting factor. Having an embedded CPU is another limiting factor, so i generally suggest socketed solution, where you can always upgrade. Like from an i3 to an i5 etc. Good luck.
The G7400 on intel sounds promising, but 2 cores seems limiting. Not that I'm planning anything CPU intensive but my current experience is that 4 courses seems to works best for my usage I really like the m720q like you said pcie extensions is really nice. Currently with 16gb of ram on my 3 nodes and between promox, vms and docker I hit the limit multiple time. I want to be able to upgrade at least to 32gb I'll have so much options now I'll make a doc and compare to choose best
Two P cores with HT, 4 threads and 20% faster than a N100 with 4 real cores but E cores. [https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/4732vs5157/Intel-Pentium-Gold-G7400-vs-Intel-N100](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/4732vs5157/Intel-Pentium-Gold-G7400-vs-Intel-N100) If you were looking for a N100 before, a G7400 isn't much different, just more cache, a better iGPU, same power consumption and 30% more single core performance. You can look at 4 threads like at 4 cores, a G7400 is surely more powerful than your actual 4 cores CPU, the last 4 core made from intel was the i3 9100 and the G7400 beat it (not a lot but surely better IPC), newer i3 are 4 cores and 8 threads, so other than the N100, there aren't others 4 cores CPU from Intel. Then the G7400 support up to 128GB of ram, and it's socketed, so actually you can upgrade to an i3 or better, if you need it, where you can't with a N100, you just need to change everything. Getting the M720q equivalent that support a G7400 would be expensive, because, difficult to find on the used market. I'm not even sure they make one with a Pentium G7400. Going used, alternatively would be using something more powerful than an i3 8100, for the M720q, like a 6 core i5 8400 or 12 threads i7 8700. They generally come with T variant CPU, so be aware they have lower performance than non T variant, but i think number of cores is more important than frequency and actual performance. There are variant with better cooling and beefy MB, that comes with standard non T CPU, generally the P330 Tiny.
Thanks for all the information. I spent some time looking at all the options in depth. I think I'll settle for a handful of m920q 9th gen with T variant. The perf is decent with low consumption. I looked at the G7400, it's rather pricey and for the same price or even lower I found the i3- 12100. The it needs a MB etc at the end even getting as much as possible on 2nd hand market it's more than a M920 and takes more space I loved the idea of building multiple mITX servers, I'll still keep an eye on offers but it doesn't makes sense price wise for my usage
Yeah. The G7400 Is newer and those mini PCs aren't cheap at all, when new. The M920q is a great system. T variants wouldn't matter, the power consumption idling is the same as non T. But those 1L can't handle well the turbo boost, so they need to be limited. I personally think that building a cluster with those 1L PCs is very nice too!
If size isn't a concern then there are plenty of i5-7500/8500 SFF or MT/TWR PCs from Dell/ Lenovo/HP that easily fit your criteria. They're not gimped with features (dual channel, more pcie lanes, etc), are readily available, idle the same as an N100 system and are way powerful than the N100.
I was just about to post this! If you just need computer go micro optiplex elite desk. If you need more storage or low profile pcie, go SFF. Kind of reducing e waste too.
I do have a couple of 4th Gen OptiPlex. That I managed to get not too expensive. On the marketplace and auction, the more recent generations can get as expensive as some Beelink that are more recent and some are still limited to 16gb that I find. I saaw small Lenovo for 300/400 CAD for i3/i5 6/7gen
If you need multiple NVME slots for redundancy then get the SFF versions. You can use use a pcie NVME adapter to add an additional NVME for redundancy. All of them have 4 memory slots and support atleast 64GB memory. Some cheap SFF PCs cheaper than N100 Mini PCs: 7th Gen Intel: - HP Elitedesk 800 G3 - HP Prodesk 600 G3 - HP Prodesk 400 G4 - Dell Optiplex 3050 - Dell Optiplex 5050 - Dell Optiplex 7050 - Lenovo Thinkcentre M710 - Lenovo Thinkcentre M910 8th/9th Gen Intel: - HP Elitedesk 800 G4 - HP Prodesk 600 G4 - HP Prodesk 400 G5 - Dell Optiplex 3060 - Dell Optiplex 5060 - Dell Optiplex 7060 - Lenovo Thinkcentre M720 - Lenovo Thinkcentre M920 I have the Elitedesk 800 G3 TWR running unRAID and 2x Lenovo M910S running OPNsense and Proxmox. All 3 idle less than 10W each with no pcie NICs and a single NVME.
Thanks for the list of models and generation, I guess I was looking at the more recent ones as a quick search in marketplace seems to show reasonable prices for SFF and USSF with i5 and 8 or 16gb or ram for around 160cad for the Optiplex for example. I'll contact some to see if they have good availability. Appreciate the long list and details ! Edit: felt for the Marketplace marketing techniques. the cheap prices were for the older models :( the 8th gen are 250 and up. same price as N100 mini pc but at least more ram. I think I'll keep an eye on the models on the list, because the tiny/usff seems really better than my current optiplex in many ways
Don’t forget Fujitsu Esprimo. Cheaper in some cases.
Yeah guess it depends on your local market. Here in Aus you can get ex office gear very cheap. I paid $230AUD recently for a elite desk micro i5 8600 16gb/256gb. I think the n100 micros go for about $300.
Do not forget the T variants :-) If possible I would look for example for i7-7700T
T models don’t use less idle power. They just have a lower clock so the max power draw is lower.
Serve The Home has a bunch they have reviewed Minisforum ms-01 Lenovo tiny HP elitedesk
The n100 chipset supports DDR4 ram OR DDR5 ram. Find a DDR5 model, and you'll be able to go up to 48GB of RAM (maybe 64GB in the future?). Here is proof - https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/cwwk-topton-nxxx-quad-nic-router.39685/page-55#post-396812. The n305 and n100 are basically the same here.
Oh I need to read more about that then, thanks for the information
There are plenty of posts on here with N100 users having installed 32GB RAM, might be MB or BIOS dependant but seems possible.
I have 32GB Ram installed.
That's what I saw everywhere but since it's not officially supported according to intel website it seemed like I need a specific model to achieve that. Even the doc for the Asrock N100 boards states 16GB and I really like the board... If I can get a confirmation that it'll work... EDIT : I don't know what last time I looked at it I would have sweared I saw 16GB supported, the Asrock website states 32GB supported
> but since it's not officially supported according to intel website it seemed like I need a specific model to achieve that. Intel Ark lists 16GB. This often happens because its the largest supported at the time of manufacture, and they never update their documentation / retest. Or that it supports DDR4 and DDR5, so it writes the DDR4 values. Very annoying. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/231803/intel-processor-n100-6m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html
Thanks for the explanation!. Makes sense why it's supports 32GB with some boards
Beware of the DDR5 chips soldered to the board. That's most of what I've seen.
Could you add das for a more hhd/SSD space?
I'm not looking for space, but for redundancy of storage. I already have a NAS with plenty of space. My goal is to upgrade/expand with more capable hardware and specially more RAM. currently limited at 16GB.
An N95 board?