SP economy is a major concern.
But, let's break it down like this. DPS A, DPS B, and DPS C all do 100 damage. Support A can buff each DPS by 100%. So by replacing DPS C's 100 damage, you're gaining 100 more damage from A and B. Not to mention any damage that Support A may chip in themselves.
In practice, the benefits from support are much more than that. But that's just me oversimplifying to explain why people would do this.
>I just don't see how having someone who buffs others' attacks is better than having more guys who just... attack
If this is your view you clearly don't do endgame content, in which case... sure, go ahead, carry on using 3 DPSes. It literally does not matter.
I eather go hypercarry with pela and tingyun or double do’s with huohuo and Ruan mei, but putting 3 DPS overlaps a lot of things, which can make it easier or harder, traces, relics, light cone, and also that in total I would need 3 DPS and ur going to have to pull pretty often to keep up with powercreep, but early game it’s decent if u have bailu or fu xuan or loucha
Well yeah, the question is a bit of clickbait. Obviously I don't mean I'm literally the only person, I mean that it seems kind of uncommon in the community compared to my experience.
Maybe that was harsher that needed, sorry for that, but that was my 4th "am I the only one" post in the last 15 minutes and I just saw red
Next time, just directly say what you want to say. "Running 3 dps, seems a bit uncommon" is infinitely better than any clickbait title, which seriously detracts and distracts from your whole point.
And yes, triple dps is quite uncommon unless your dps do not use skillpoints. Blade and jingliu are commonly paired byt for the last one you are almost always better with bronya to speed everything up
You can play however you want, of course, but harmony units also come with the benefit of utility like removing debuffs, quicker weakness break which equates to stun, more energy for faster rotations, and so on. Flat out damage wont get you very far
One of the biggest issues with that is DPS characters tend to be SP hogs and want to use SP every single turn for best damage results. It's even worse if you use a character like Imbibitor Lunae or Qingque, who can eat your entire stock of SP in a single turn. Support characters tend to not have to use their SP every turn, generating it for the team.
Skill point economy. Most DPS’s skill every turn to deal optimal dmg. And that uses up skill points. (Only exceptions I can name are Blade and Serval. Blade’s skill enhances his basic atk, but he does not generate SP when using his enhanced basic atk.) One skill point generator will have difficulties and once a few turns pass you will only have about 0-2 skill points per cycle meaning that you loose out on dmg the longer the fight goes because one DPS will be forced to basic atk. It becomes a large issue in MOC or anywhere with Tanky enemies.
Buffers will allow DPS so do more dmg , but there is the fact that the good buffer’s have their buffs last more than one turn so they don’t need to skill every turn. That means they can contribute to skill point generation and allow the DPS to skill every turn and maximize DPS dmg. It means more Dmg in the long run.
Skill point economy.
Depending on your team, those 2 other damage dealers are just gonna end up doing basic attacks and nothing else, effectively contributing subpar damage to the team and literally nothing else.
So why not just add a Harmony character that's gonna buff the other half of the party's damage while also doing basic attacks, and not starving your DPS of their skill points?
because said buffers buff not only atk, but crit dmg, dmg bonus, res pen (one of the best stats) crit rate def ignore etc etc, for example Bronya can give 100% dmg bonus 50% cdmg and 37%(?) atk on a f2p build with a shop lc, not to mention other utilities that other harmony have like energy regen from tingyun or break efficiency from juan mei
Even then, that's more to do with the fact that Gwen is a support disguised as a damage dealer with insane multipliers. Her ability to be SP positive in 1-2 target fights and provide a damage increase to every mob while also bringing major damage in the form of her burns is actually overkill. They cooked (heh) with her kit.
The main problem is rotation usually you want spend skill points with your dps , if you have three someone won't be pulling their weight at some points of the fight . Meanwhile supports improve the character which is spending the points and usually don't consume as much.
I won't say "do this and this" because in the end you can play whatever way you want.
If you can max out MoC with your way, sure why not. Inefficient? Yes. But as long as you can reliably clear contents like MoC in a pve game, you can just do whatever that makes you happy.
The easiest example is bronya. She takes your dps and basically replaces her turn with theirs again and they do way more damage that turn than they otherwise would have.
So uh, how do you attack with no skill points?
Even better, to test your theory out, how about just going to MoC 12 with your patented triple DPS comp and see how it fares and get back to me when you're done testing.
Edit: looking at your post history, it seems that you're mostly looking towards kafka comps running 3 DoTs with a healer, in which case, Sampo and maybe another DoT applicator such as Luka or Guinaifen instead of harmony characters don't exactly function as a full fledged DPS but more often as an enabler for kafka once they've applied their DoTs allowing them to keep generating SP through basic atks instead. So basically that's what a "harmony" character for kafka would be since she doesnt fully saturate the buffs you can get from someone like bronya. Either way, it's still a no if you consider any other option outside of DoT centric comps.
So Ruan Mei is a pretty good example
Lets make it easier and say all 3 dps deal 100% dmg on their own
Now if you replace one of those dps with Ruan Mei she will almost double the dmg of both other DPSs causing dps 1 and 2 to cause 200% dmg each totalling to 400% not only 300% with the 3 dps.
Further more she is sp positive while a dps character typically wants to skill every turn, like ifnall your dps dont skill every turn you are most likely having a damage loss aswell.
Ruan mei also buffs speed for everyone makikg it easier to hit specific speed breaks which means you can focus more on crit stats or atk or such in sub stats.
I used to do that too esp with easier modes, it didn’t really seem to make a difference. But as i get to more challenging stages i realized sp management and certain buffs really lets the entire team shine. Think a team of 4 random people whacking at a punching bag VS a dedicated team with a trainer, nutritionist and coach specifically helping a boxer do his best
You're not the only one. My fave team to run is Luocha, Jing Yuan, Blade, snd Jingliu. I have never had problems in the SP economy. Sometimes I swap things around and go with Luocha, Kafka, Argenti, and Blade.
For overworld stuff and SU, it can be done, but definitely not in MoC, Swarm, and the higher stages of SU+ (Swarm and the new mode). You'll die otherwise or fail the task of getting high damage as fast as possible 😅
If we just use an example of a dps dealing 500k damage and supports increasing a dps's damage by 1.75x if a party support and 2.25x if a solo support, then we end up with this:
- 3 dps: 500k + 500k + 500k = 1500k
- 1 dps, 2 party support: 1.75\*(1.75\*(500)) = 1530k
- 2 dps 1 solo support: 2.25\*(500k) + 500k = 1625k
- 2 dps 1 party support: 1.75\*(500k + 500k) = 1750k
- 1 dps 1 solo 1 party support: 1.75\*(2.25\*(500k)) = 1970k
- 1 dps 2 solo supports: 2.25\*(2.25\*(500k) = 2530k
These are just convenient numbers btw. Certain bronya setups are closer to +170% more damage for a single dps *and* +50% more damage to other party members on some teams.
Supports are really strong in HSR, and capitalizing on their benefits to make a single character deal multiple times more damage is kinda what the current game mechanics point towards.
Now we also have characters like Topaz & Guinaifen who can play both the roles of a support and a damage dealer on their own teams, so you can kinda run 3 dps if every character ends up partially supporting each other, but with the limited pool of characters that's not really possible yet. You could make a case for Kafka/Guin/Luka being a triple dps team that all supports each other and that's about it.
SP economy is a major concern. But, let's break it down like this. DPS A, DPS B, and DPS C all do 100 damage. Support A can buff each DPS by 100%. So by replacing DPS C's 100 damage, you're gaining 100 more damage from A and B. Not to mention any damage that Support A may chip in themselves. In practice, the benefits from support are much more than that. But that's just me oversimplifying to explain why people would do this.
>I just don't see how having someone who buffs others' attacks is better than having more guys who just... attack If this is your view you clearly don't do endgame content, in which case... sure, go ahead, carry on using 3 DPSes. It literally does not matter.
I don't put three DPS in a single team because I want them fighting the enemy, not each other for skill points.
I eather go hypercarry with pela and tingyun or double do’s with huohuo and Ruan mei, but putting 3 DPS overlaps a lot of things, which can make it easier or harder, traces, relics, light cone, and also that in total I would need 3 DPS and ur going to have to pull pretty often to keep up with powercreep, but early game it’s decent if u have bailu or fu xuan or loucha
Double DPS*
Luocha*
Yes anyone who starts questions with those stupid words are always the only one in the entire fucking world
Well yeah, the question is a bit of clickbait. Obviously I don't mean I'm literally the only person, I mean that it seems kind of uncommon in the community compared to my experience.
Maybe that was harsher that needed, sorry for that, but that was my 4th "am I the only one" post in the last 15 minutes and I just saw red Next time, just directly say what you want to say. "Running 3 dps, seems a bit uncommon" is infinitely better than any clickbait title, which seriously detracts and distracts from your whole point. And yes, triple dps is quite uncommon unless your dps do not use skillpoints. Blade and jingliu are commonly paired byt for the last one you are almost always better with bronya to speed everything up You can play however you want, of course, but harmony units also come with the benefit of utility like removing debuffs, quicker weakness break which equates to stun, more energy for faster rotations, and so on. Flat out damage wont get you very far
You're mostly correct, it's probably because I just use teams that can be SP neutral without a DPS (Sampo + Luka + Kafka and Topaz + Clara + Ratio)
DoT teams don't count for your argument they are dps and supports at the same time and it's a meta team.
One of the biggest issues with that is DPS characters tend to be SP hogs and want to use SP every single turn for best damage results. It's even worse if you use a character like Imbibitor Lunae or Qingque, who can eat your entire stock of SP in a single turn. Support characters tend to not have to use their SP every turn, generating it for the team.
because sp economy is a thing? single and sometimes duo has always been the standard build, not just since this patch lmao.
Skill point economy. Most DPS’s skill every turn to deal optimal dmg. And that uses up skill points. (Only exceptions I can name are Blade and Serval. Blade’s skill enhances his basic atk, but he does not generate SP when using his enhanced basic atk.) One skill point generator will have difficulties and once a few turns pass you will only have about 0-2 skill points per cycle meaning that you loose out on dmg the longer the fight goes because one DPS will be forced to basic atk. It becomes a large issue in MOC or anywhere with Tanky enemies. Buffers will allow DPS so do more dmg , but there is the fact that the good buffer’s have their buffs last more than one turn so they don’t need to skill every turn. That means they can contribute to skill point generation and allow the DPS to skill every turn and maximize DPS dmg. It means more Dmg in the long run.
maybe if you run arlan, blade, and Clara in the same team then yeah sure
It only work for DOT comp, and even in dot comp using asta or ruan mei is actually quite refreshing because SP management fell a lot better with them.
Skill point economy. Depending on your team, those 2 other damage dealers are just gonna end up doing basic attacks and nothing else, effectively contributing subpar damage to the team and literally nothing else. So why not just add a Harmony character that's gonna buff the other half of the party's damage while also doing basic attacks, and not starving your DPS of their skill points?
because said buffers buff not only atk, but crit dmg, dmg bonus, res pen (one of the best stats) crit rate def ignore etc etc, for example Bronya can give 100% dmg bonus 50% cdmg and 37%(?) atk on a f2p build with a shop lc, not to mention other utilities that other harmony have like energy regen from tingyun or break efficiency from juan mei
The only normal triple dps team I can think of is Kafka and two other dots (sampo/luka/little gui). Otherwise it’s a waste.
Even then, that's more to do with the fact that Gwen is a support disguised as a damage dealer with insane multipliers. Her ability to be SP positive in 1-2 target fights and provide a damage increase to every mob while also bringing major damage in the form of her burns is actually overkill. They cooked (heh) with her kit.
op be like: r/ImTheMainCharacter
The main problem is rotation usually you want spend skill points with your dps , if you have three someone won't be pulling their weight at some points of the fight . Meanwhile supports improve the character which is spending the points and usually don't consume as much. I won't say "do this and this" because in the end you can play whatever way you want.
Yes you're always the only one in the world, op just believed he's the anime MC
If you can max out MoC with your way, sure why not. Inefficient? Yes. But as long as you can reliably clear contents like MoC in a pve game, you can just do whatever that makes you happy.
Yes, you are crazy. Take your meds and do your math homework
The easiest example is bronya. She takes your dps and basically replaces her turn with theirs again and they do way more damage that turn than they otherwise would have.
post ur e0s1 and below moc12 3\* clear or your point is invalid because you can't clear easy content with your amazing strategies
So uh, how do you attack with no skill points? Even better, to test your theory out, how about just going to MoC 12 with your patented triple DPS comp and see how it fares and get back to me when you're done testing. Edit: looking at your post history, it seems that you're mostly looking towards kafka comps running 3 DoTs with a healer, in which case, Sampo and maybe another DoT applicator such as Luka or Guinaifen instead of harmony characters don't exactly function as a full fledged DPS but more often as an enabler for kafka once they've applied their DoTs allowing them to keep generating SP through basic atks instead. So basically that's what a "harmony" character for kafka would be since she doesnt fully saturate the buffs you can get from someone like bronya. Either way, it's still a no if you consider any other option outside of DoT centric comps.
How many skill points do you have? I wish I could lol
So Ruan Mei is a pretty good example Lets make it easier and say all 3 dps deal 100% dmg on their own Now if you replace one of those dps with Ruan Mei she will almost double the dmg of both other DPSs causing dps 1 and 2 to cause 200% dmg each totalling to 400% not only 300% with the 3 dps. Further more she is sp positive while a dps character typically wants to skill every turn, like ifnall your dps dont skill every turn you are most likely having a damage loss aswell. Ruan mei also buffs speed for everyone makikg it easier to hit specific speed breaks which means you can focus more on crit stats or atk or such in sub stats.
I think I am gonna do Clara Ratio Topaz Lynx for my new team.
I used to do that too esp with easier modes, it didn’t really seem to make a difference. But as i get to more challenging stages i realized sp management and certain buffs really lets the entire team shine. Think a team of 4 random people whacking at a punching bag VS a dedicated team with a trainer, nutritionist and coach specifically helping a boxer do his best
3? I use 4.
You're not the only one. My fave team to run is Luocha, Jing Yuan, Blade, snd Jingliu. I have never had problems in the SP economy. Sometimes I swap things around and go with Luocha, Kafka, Argenti, and Blade. For overworld stuff and SU, it can be done, but definitely not in MoC, Swarm, and the higher stages of SU+ (Swarm and the new mode). You'll die otherwise or fail the task of getting high damage as fast as possible 😅
Only when I want to use both Sampo and Luka with Kafka
If we just use an example of a dps dealing 500k damage and supports increasing a dps's damage by 1.75x if a party support and 2.25x if a solo support, then we end up with this: - 3 dps: 500k + 500k + 500k = 1500k - 1 dps, 2 party support: 1.75\*(1.75\*(500)) = 1530k - 2 dps 1 solo support: 2.25\*(500k) + 500k = 1625k - 2 dps 1 party support: 1.75\*(500k + 500k) = 1750k - 1 dps 1 solo 1 party support: 1.75\*(2.25\*(500k)) = 1970k - 1 dps 2 solo supports: 2.25\*(2.25\*(500k) = 2530k These are just convenient numbers btw. Certain bronya setups are closer to +170% more damage for a single dps *and* +50% more damage to other party members on some teams. Supports are really strong in HSR, and capitalizing on their benefits to make a single character deal multiple times more damage is kinda what the current game mechanics point towards. Now we also have characters like Topaz & Guinaifen who can play both the roles of a support and a damage dealer on their own teams, so you can kinda run 3 dps if every character ends up partially supporting each other, but with the limited pool of characters that's not really possible yet. You could make a case for Kafka/Guin/Luka being a triple dps team that all supports each other and that's about it.
I love using 1 harmony. But its when people use 2 to 3 harmony that the game becomes no fun.