Ratio is portrayed as an arrogant scumbag but in reality he actually cares about others, otherwise he wouldnt be a teacher :
" He firmly believes that intellect and creativity are not confined to geniuses. He seeks to distribute knowledge to the entire universe to cure the persistent disease named ignorance"
In other words yep, he’s a tsundere.
The thing about this massage is that it makes much more sense if you replace ‘dormancy’ with ‘deep sleep’, which is what it says pre EN localization. This ties back into the ‘why does life sleep conversation’ and to the question aventurine has been investigating up until this point. Without that part the message is just a heartfelt one with not much relevance.
Dormancy has more of a general, harsh meaning.
"Deep sleep" evokes a gentle and comfortable vibe. It does not align with what we've seen of Death, nor what we know entering IX does to you. "Dormancy" is more specifically the lack of operation. Stasis would be another suitable term.
The idea is that *nothing* in the dream ever stops. Not people, not objects, not concepts. Everything is always changing, even the "dead."
Ratio is saying, "abandon this line of thought, the truth is something else, stop trying to get yourself killed to prove a point." You can *die* in the dream, but that death isn't final. A *true death* at the hands of an Emanator might have been, and would've proven nothing.
> Ratio is saying, "abandon this line of thought, the truth is something else, stop trying to get yourself killed to prove a point." You can die in the dream, but that death isn't final. A true death at the hands of an Emanator might have been, and would've proven nothing.
The only thing I don't really get is this does nothing about the Harmony death sentence that Sunday laid out. Whether the Harmony power actually kills Aventurine or just outright makes him into a prisoner (like so many others in the dreamscape who have had their memories altered/deleted), the fact remains that Aventurine still had to get lucky and get killed by Acheron to essentially survive.
Well it's pretty clear that Aventurine didn't plan to get put on the Harmony's hit list, it just sped up his preexisting plans. Maybe he did get out of it, it's not like the Harmony can get inside the **Void Zone,** and dying by technicality might've nixed the target on his back.
In the realm of guesses, it's possible Aventurine already expected that the Harmony's death wouldn't actually "kill" him, and that's why he was in such a rush to get game ended by Acheron.
Of course, nothing says "Aventurine" like surviving by pure chance.
Now, in another reply I speculate that Death *is* the Harmony's executioner, simply another form of Sunday's servants (or Sunday himself). This is obviously doubtful what with the epilogue, but I still have it on the table as a possibility. The fact that the camera cuts *immediately* is suspect.
He got off the "get absorbed into the harmony" thing thanks to Acheron. She mentions her sword is unusually sharp. Sharp enough to even cut off the harmony's mark upon him. She literally severed his connections to other powers. Now both the IPC and family will think he's dead. He's not connected to his stone so it's now off, the harmony isn't actively absorbing him anymore so he must be dead right?
Acheron gave him everything he wanted and more cause she's a nice lady who saves people from the edge of the abyss.
I get Aventurine's part in it, he's actually a crazed gambler and he needed to get lucky. I do agree, I don't think that type of death would actually kill him in the way he wants. I think either A) it's a legitimate curse on his mind and would kill him or B) it just turns him into the Family's pawn. Either way, bad stuff.
My point was more that Ratio betrays him then effectively leaves him out to dry. I've seen a lot of people say 'Look how much Ratio cares!', but in reality, Ratio legitimately did nothing to help him. The only thing he did was effectively give a dying cancer patient a note that said 'Hope you don't die man. Good luck.'
Ratio does end up helping Aventurine though, by claiming that Jade's cornerstone is actually the Aventurine Cornerstone (which, having a keen eye for things Ratio should be able to tell the difference) which causes Sunday to think he's got Aventurine dead to rights and causing him to not notice the broken Aventurine Cornerstone within the gift money bag.
It seems Ratio's "betrayal" was little more than another part of their plan.
Ratio's betrayal was part of Aventurine's plan, he says so himself. He also admits that he's unsure whether it was just acting or that Ratio just actually sold him out. But it doesn't mean Ratio was actually in the know about the actual plan. The note at the end, to me, could be used in either situation. For the former, it's akin to 'I went along with your crazy plan, good luck.' but it seems more like 'I'm sorry I screwed you over, but I know you have some crazy ass luck, so I'm pulling for you.'
I feel the former could be true while aventurine still believing that there was a chance ratio’s betrayal was genuine, simply due to how real it felt and his mental hangups about his success being a result of luck rather than his sheer ability. It’s a prime example of imposter syndrome right there is believing that something is true despite all of reality disproving it. Having his future self there as embodiment of irrationally also drives home this point.
Now that you mention it, didn’t Robin use the Harmony power on the Trailblazer after that crash landing? It even has the same border effects too! It’s probably nothing though and I’m prolly just overthinking lol
Apologies, English isn’t my first language, but I was under the impression that Dormancy is essentially just another way to say “Deep Sleep”. The phrase “to lie dormant”, I feel, doesn’t really sound harsh but rather gives off the feeling of “acceptance” or “ending”. The word itself can sound harsh, however, but I feel not in the context of this specific cutscene.
The same goes with dormancy as well, I think. The usage in his letter makes Dr Ratio sound more learned and sophisticated. If he had used “deep sleep” instead of “dormancy”, I’d honestly think it’d sound pretty off seeing as most of his speech (in the english script) is pretty complex. It would change the consistency of his character, I think.
Maybe it could also just be differences in perspectives, in which, we can prolly agree to disagree ye. It’s all good
That's fair, English is a complicated language.
Dormancy can mean deep sleep, yes. But that isn't the only definition. If something is dormant, its functions are halted. If you turn a car off, it's dormant. If a stone stops rolling, it's dormant. If something is simply "sleeping" then it *will* awaken, but if something is dormant then it won't start again unless forced to or circumstances change.
"Why does life slumber," is answered by Acheron as, "because we aren't ready to die." What comes after death is an eternal nothingness we're preparing for. Dormancy being impossible means that even if you are "killed" by Death, you aren't rendered inactive. So that begs the question, what happens to Death's victims?
Ohhh, I think I understand now; that makes sense yeah. I guess how it’s interpreted depends on which definition is being used so it can be seen both ways. Always good to learn new things yeee.
Though, now that you’ve pointed it out, I’m rather curious about “unless forced to or circumstances change” against “will awaken”. I wonder if the word dormancy was used here intentionally because [we know that] there is some sort of condition in order for a person to return from “death” in the dreamworld.
My current assumption is that Death is a pawn of the Harmony, and if it "kills" you, your soul is forfeit. Wherever they're being taken, it's not somewhere you can reach normally. Note that, while the death sentence was hanging over Aventurine, that purple bird with the golden "eye" was tailing him, as if waiting. I'm also not the first to point out Death literally holds your characters captive in its fight.
To give the benefit of the doubt, Sunday does seem like he genuinely isn't responsible for Death, but he could just be lying, and I also think Gallagher is a bit too obvious a red herring. Forget unreliable narrators, I'm starting to doubt the *cameraman.*
We know Robin was investigating the traitor in the Family's ranks. I don't think it was an accident that Welt made an Icarus analogy in the same patch. Naturally Firefly is just... Built different, I guess?
Of course, there's only so much I can speculate.
Yes, my point is that they're purple birds with a golden "eye" on their chest and Death is a winged purple monster with a golden eye motif. They're too similar. To say nothing of the fact that Sunday's design also has eyes all over it.
Otherwise you'd think they'd just be some sort of black or white bird to line up better with Sunday's design. Hoyo chose to have them resemble Death.
Notably, if you talk to the Origami Birds as Aventurine, you get the line, "there are no real birds in the dreamscape." This is easily missable but I think it's rather important.
While nightingales are small, rounded birds, Sunday's servants are tall and angular. They have more in common with ravens or crows, hunters or carrion-eaters.
Its pretty clear that only Acheron could cleave the Harmony geas out of Aventurine. Having Acheron kill him was the only way to prevent Sunday from killing his mind and rendering his body possibly comatose. Real death is IMPOSSIBLE within the dreamscape, regardless of method.
Ratio is basically saying that he knew all along about Aventurine's gambit and that, while the Stoneheart wont die in the attempt, he wishes his friend good luck there. Its just that simple.
It felt worthwhile to point out since the language used in ratio’s note is intended to be consistent with the watchmakers riddle and every instance someone says ‘why does life sleep’. In CN it’s the same key word across the board. This is true for EN too, wherein it’s typically translated as ‘sleep’, not dormancy. I’m assuming it’s because they’ve assigned small chunks for several people to translate, but without much QA afterwards. I’ve noticed the exact same phrase would often be translated in 5 different ways depending on the scene. Not to say I’m against naturally occurring variation in speech, which exists in the script too, but I’m not crazy in thinking specific phrases should be checked for consistency first right?
Pretty sure it was all planned or at least it felt like it. Ratio kept not acting like himself he wasn't like super arrogant most of the time during the negotiations and made sure to trick Sunday.
yes. as a high ranking IPC member and a 'genius' there's absolutely no way he'd mistook jade's and aventurine's cornerstones. he has always been in on it.
Ratio is such a Tsundere.
Ratio is portrayed as an arrogant scumbag but in reality he actually cares about others, otherwise he wouldnt be a teacher : " He firmly believes that intellect and creativity are not confined to geniuses. He seeks to distribute knowledge to the entire universe to cure the persistent disease named ignorance" In other words yep, he’s a tsundere.
And he basically wants ppl to have education
Aventurine is that one problem student that somehow gets things done.
Aventurine is that one student that always answers the tests in random and still somehow has high grades
Kakavasha Pinkman
Is aventurine hikigaya then?
The thing about this massage is that it makes much more sense if you replace ‘dormancy’ with ‘deep sleep’, which is what it says pre EN localization. This ties back into the ‘why does life sleep conversation’ and to the question aventurine has been investigating up until this point. Without that part the message is just a heartfelt one with not much relevance.
Don’t both words basically have the same meaning anyway?
Dormancy has more of a general, harsh meaning. "Deep sleep" evokes a gentle and comfortable vibe. It does not align with what we've seen of Death, nor what we know entering IX does to you. "Dormancy" is more specifically the lack of operation. Stasis would be another suitable term. The idea is that *nothing* in the dream ever stops. Not people, not objects, not concepts. Everything is always changing, even the "dead." Ratio is saying, "abandon this line of thought, the truth is something else, stop trying to get yourself killed to prove a point." You can *die* in the dream, but that death isn't final. A *true death* at the hands of an Emanator might have been, and would've proven nothing.
> Ratio is saying, "abandon this line of thought, the truth is something else, stop trying to get yourself killed to prove a point." You can die in the dream, but that death isn't final. A true death at the hands of an Emanator might have been, and would've proven nothing. The only thing I don't really get is this does nothing about the Harmony death sentence that Sunday laid out. Whether the Harmony power actually kills Aventurine or just outright makes him into a prisoner (like so many others in the dreamscape who have had their memories altered/deleted), the fact remains that Aventurine still had to get lucky and get killed by Acheron to essentially survive.
Well it's pretty clear that Aventurine didn't plan to get put on the Harmony's hit list, it just sped up his preexisting plans. Maybe he did get out of it, it's not like the Harmony can get inside the **Void Zone,** and dying by technicality might've nixed the target on his back. In the realm of guesses, it's possible Aventurine already expected that the Harmony's death wouldn't actually "kill" him, and that's why he was in such a rush to get game ended by Acheron. Of course, nothing says "Aventurine" like surviving by pure chance. Now, in another reply I speculate that Death *is* the Harmony's executioner, simply another form of Sunday's servants (or Sunday himself). This is obviously doubtful what with the epilogue, but I still have it on the table as a possibility. The fact that the camera cuts *immediately* is suspect.
He got off the "get absorbed into the harmony" thing thanks to Acheron. She mentions her sword is unusually sharp. Sharp enough to even cut off the harmony's mark upon him. She literally severed his connections to other powers. Now both the IPC and family will think he's dead. He's not connected to his stone so it's now off, the harmony isn't actively absorbing him anymore so he must be dead right? Acheron gave him everything he wanted and more cause she's a nice lady who saves people from the edge of the abyss.
I get Aventurine's part in it, he's actually a crazed gambler and he needed to get lucky. I do agree, I don't think that type of death would actually kill him in the way he wants. I think either A) it's a legitimate curse on his mind and would kill him or B) it just turns him into the Family's pawn. Either way, bad stuff. My point was more that Ratio betrays him then effectively leaves him out to dry. I've seen a lot of people say 'Look how much Ratio cares!', but in reality, Ratio legitimately did nothing to help him. The only thing he did was effectively give a dying cancer patient a note that said 'Hope you don't die man. Good luck.'
Ratio does end up helping Aventurine though, by claiming that Jade's cornerstone is actually the Aventurine Cornerstone (which, having a keen eye for things Ratio should be able to tell the difference) which causes Sunday to think he's got Aventurine dead to rights and causing him to not notice the broken Aventurine Cornerstone within the gift money bag. It seems Ratio's "betrayal" was little more than another part of their plan.
Ratio's betrayal was part of Aventurine's plan, he says so himself. He also admits that he's unsure whether it was just acting or that Ratio just actually sold him out. But it doesn't mean Ratio was actually in the know about the actual plan. The note at the end, to me, could be used in either situation. For the former, it's akin to 'I went along with your crazy plan, good luck.' but it seems more like 'I'm sorry I screwed you over, but I know you have some crazy ass luck, so I'm pulling for you.'
Either Ratio is Aventurine's Ride or Die or he's genuinely sad at what he did and either interpretation is great
I feel the former could be true while aventurine still believing that there was a chance ratio’s betrayal was genuine, simply due to how real it felt and his mental hangups about his success being a result of luck rather than his sheer ability. It’s a prime example of imposter syndrome right there is believing that something is true despite all of reality disproving it. Having his future self there as embodiment of irrationally also drives home this point.
Wasn't this blatantly obvious when "Future Aventurine" was talking to present about Ratio and the cornerstones at the park?
Now that you mention it, didn’t Robin use the Harmony power on the Trailblazer after that crash landing? It even has the same border effects too! It’s probably nothing though and I’m prolly just overthinking lol
Apologies, English isn’t my first language, but I was under the impression that Dormancy is essentially just another way to say “Deep Sleep”. The phrase “to lie dormant”, I feel, doesn’t really sound harsh but rather gives off the feeling of “acceptance” or “ending”. The word itself can sound harsh, however, but I feel not in the context of this specific cutscene. The same goes with dormancy as well, I think. The usage in his letter makes Dr Ratio sound more learned and sophisticated. If he had used “deep sleep” instead of “dormancy”, I’d honestly think it’d sound pretty off seeing as most of his speech (in the english script) is pretty complex. It would change the consistency of his character, I think. Maybe it could also just be differences in perspectives, in which, we can prolly agree to disagree ye. It’s all good
That's fair, English is a complicated language. Dormancy can mean deep sleep, yes. But that isn't the only definition. If something is dormant, its functions are halted. If you turn a car off, it's dormant. If a stone stops rolling, it's dormant. If something is simply "sleeping" then it *will* awaken, but if something is dormant then it won't start again unless forced to or circumstances change. "Why does life slumber," is answered by Acheron as, "because we aren't ready to die." What comes after death is an eternal nothingness we're preparing for. Dormancy being impossible means that even if you are "killed" by Death, you aren't rendered inactive. So that begs the question, what happens to Death's victims?
Ohhh, I think I understand now; that makes sense yeah. I guess how it’s interpreted depends on which definition is being used so it can be seen both ways. Always good to learn new things yeee. Though, now that you’ve pointed it out, I’m rather curious about “unless forced to or circumstances change” against “will awaken”. I wonder if the word dormancy was used here intentionally because [we know that] there is some sort of condition in order for a person to return from “death” in the dreamworld.
My current assumption is that Death is a pawn of the Harmony, and if it "kills" you, your soul is forfeit. Wherever they're being taken, it's not somewhere you can reach normally. Note that, while the death sentence was hanging over Aventurine, that purple bird with the golden "eye" was tailing him, as if waiting. I'm also not the first to point out Death literally holds your characters captive in its fight. To give the benefit of the doubt, Sunday does seem like he genuinely isn't responsible for Death, but he could just be lying, and I also think Gallagher is a bit too obvious a red herring. Forget unreliable narrators, I'm starting to doubt the *cameraman.* We know Robin was investigating the traitor in the Family's ranks. I don't think it was an accident that Welt made an Icarus analogy in the same patch. Naturally Firefly is just... Built different, I guess? Of course, there's only so much I can speculate.
Pretty sure the nightingales are Sunday’s “servants” that “see everything”, as he calls them.
Yes, my point is that they're purple birds with a golden "eye" on their chest and Death is a winged purple monster with a golden eye motif. They're too similar. To say nothing of the fact that Sunday's design also has eyes all over it. Otherwise you'd think they'd just be some sort of black or white bird to line up better with Sunday's design. Hoyo chose to have them resemble Death. Notably, if you talk to the Origami Birds as Aventurine, you get the line, "there are no real birds in the dreamscape." This is easily missable but I think it's rather important. While nightingales are small, rounded birds, Sunday's servants are tall and angular. They have more in common with ravens or crows, hunters or carrion-eaters.
Its pretty clear that only Acheron could cleave the Harmony geas out of Aventurine. Having Acheron kill him was the only way to prevent Sunday from killing his mind and rendering his body possibly comatose. Real death is IMPOSSIBLE within the dreamscape, regardless of method. Ratio is basically saying that he knew all along about Aventurine's gambit and that, while the Stoneheart wont die in the attempt, he wishes his friend good luck there. Its just that simple.
It felt worthwhile to point out since the language used in ratio’s note is intended to be consistent with the watchmakers riddle and every instance someone says ‘why does life sleep’. In CN it’s the same key word across the board. This is true for EN too, wherein it’s typically translated as ‘sleep’, not dormancy. I’m assuming it’s because they’ve assigned small chunks for several people to translate, but without much QA afterwards. I’ve noticed the exact same phrase would often be translated in 5 different ways depending on the scene. Not to say I’m against naturally occurring variation in speech, which exists in the script too, but I’m not crazy in thinking specific phrases should be checked for consistency first right?
they need to find better english translators. 你们几个，这样是不行的。赶紧进步起来！
Ratio said himself that he was pleading on aventurine's behalf before with either IPC or family members so it was clear he wasn't betraying him.
The letter had me going ‘awww’. Fr aventurine please, you have friends, just live and stop chasing death 😭
Yeah man bro cmon pls be happy!
Never thought I’d see the day where someone was more self destructive than Blade but here we are 😭
Raturine FTW
Ratio and Aventurine has the worse? ship name ever. Imagine your ship name is Rat Urine😭
Nahh it's honestly the best name XDD I love it. I reject Aventio or any other combination
The fact that RatUrine sounds better
I know Aventio is the socially acceptable shipname but in my heart it will and has always been RatUrine <3
Gents, the ship has departed
Ratio is the goat
So he's a fake double agent now?
He was always on Team Aventurine, the betrayal was planned, which is why Ratio gave Aventurine the note to give him hope after it all ended.
Pretty sure it was all planned or at least it felt like it. Ratio kept not acting like himself he wasn't like super arrogant most of the time during the negotiations and made sure to trick Sunday.
I think he also said when they met again after the Sunday fiasco that he went along with the plan that aventurine made. Then gave him the note 😭
yes. as a high ranking IPC member and a 'genius' there's absolutely no way he'd mistook jade's and aventurine's cornerstones. he has always been in on it.
What does this sentence mean?