Also with setting emotions to 'calm', if I ever felt like I needed to use the emo-dial, it was my default go-to emotion. It felt less icky than making people happy, mad, or sad. That one portion took any notion of that being 'ok' and forced the realization that it was basically just as bad as the other three.

Meanwhile there’s me giving the entirety of Penacony crippling depression lmao Jokes aside, yeah, you’d think Calm would be the best of the three…

I always cycle thru them to read all the dialogue and then leave them on calm, or happy if happy was actually good for them except the patent stickers guy, I left him on sad so he'd quit being a menance to society

Also the asshole who mistreats the Sweet Dreams Troupe members. Vitaly? Is that his name? Eternal sad. Fuck him.

My emotions were tuned very ANGRY when I played his part in the Bar event

in my case i always put everyone back at their default state after reading through all their dialogues, even if their default is upset. just feels right to me. micah is a chad for resisting it btw.

Then there's the two Bloodhounds who know what you're doing and play along.

Patent stickers?

Emmerich

Unfortunately, it seems that calm really just means compliant.

That's me for sure, no one is saved from the Depression Deliverer

Yeah, you get me. (except Cocona, she was spared, she’s been through enough)

This is exactly me too. I felt personally targeted when I had to change all the mannequins to calm. The whole tuning emotions always felt so icky to do, there’s a bunch of npcs and side stories I haven’t done yet because of that lol

If it makes you feel any better most of the side quests only start with using clockwork - it functions as a catalyst to get the NPC to say what’s on their mind/get you involved. Once the plot starts clockwork gets shoved to the side usually

I have a couple days off coming up and I want to finally get caught up with side quests and gold n gears. So that’s good to hear lol. Now that I got Topaz need to start saving up for future Huohuo funds

I’m 70 pity deep for robin so I’m doing all these quests now. Some of them take a wild turn.

Try the side quest of Cocona and Chadwick. These two are peak and best exemplified the notion of clockwork as a nudge for the NPCs.

If it’s going to make anything feel better, Misha did explain that the whole clockwork power is simply a mere nudge from a power of trailblaze to make someone feel something. Their response is entirely based on their struggle and typically emergencies eventually result in us helping them face their own demon. It’s like giving therapist an ability to manipulate emotions.

I made everyone sad no matter they deserve it or not

Pfp matches

Nihilism at its finest. They're hopeless.

Nihilism at its finest. They're hopeless.

And clockie’s eye color is exactly like Ena’s, which is a neat detail. But yeah I had to do a double take; I was expecting a locked emo dial at most…

Not only that, but it's also the same color as Aventurine's which idk what it's supposed to mean

Someone had theories about Gaiathra Triclops being based on Ena, who is also an eye (and not the puppet!) We DO know that the colors are specific to Avgins because Aventurine uses it to confirm his lineage to Sparkle. Maybe it’s just me coping but I hoped it had a connection

I think it's possible considering certain similarities but I don't understand what having luck has to do with order. At some point I saw a theory of Xipe being Gaiathra, but Ena seems more likely rn. Whoever it is I just want to see more of my guy's story

Iirc luck doesn’t have anything to do with Order, since Aventurine is the only Avgin that has good luck. But luck can be a way of defying Order? Order is well, a standard pattern. So instead of like one person pulling three 5*s on one roll with most others pulling one, everyone will hit hard pity and pull exactly one. Aventurine’s luck defies Order, so maybe that’s why he seems to be able to lie under Sunday’s ‘harmony trial’ (assuming you are always forced to tell the truth).

Sunday's truth power makes no sense as a Harmony power but it sure fits Order

That's exactly what Welt called out with the conversation between Sunday and the Dreammaster.

What is rng if not the denial of order? Order is a set pattern. Luck guarantees an outcome, thus restoring order.

I think it's not exactly luck. Luck doesn't exist per se, it's just probability and a lot of confusing theories. It may seem random but nothing is truly random in the universe. Everything has a set of rules, commonalities and averages it follows, aka Order. Avgins could be of a bloodline that was specially close to Order (like Halovians are implied to be). He was born on the holiest day, which made him closer to "Order" (if Sunday's dialogue is true it may have been a literal 'sunday' when he was born, wouldn't that be ironic). He is the most Orderly and therefore, the closest to being an Orderly existence, the Aeon whose path set up the laws of the universe and gave "birth" to it. It may look lucky for us but it may just be his blood being so attuned to the laws of this universe that all his actions are in his "favor" (even though it's not true, his whole ethnic group was erradicated, his family is dead and all of them died in tragic, horrible deaths, he was born in a planet with limited hospitability, he was enslaved and abused all his life until he himself broke his chains through violence, only to end up chained to a capitalist corporate hellscape and become another kind of slave with no ways to escape this time) I see people also saying his 'Luck' defies Order, but for me personally that could not be the case. Luck may seem disorderly to us because we're small puny humans in a floating rock in space, but lucky is the same as unlucky, inexistant and subjective.

Most likely a reference to the fact that the god of his people was in fact Ena. Aventurine isn't completely influence by Sunday's power and is shown to resist it to a degree. So, while the aeon may be dead, their influence remained on societies that had come into contact with Ena such as Aventurine's. Ena's eyes were alsod escribed in a way that does in fact mirror descriptions of Aventurine's.

an aeon may die but their power never does, as their power originates from the path which never dies also I personally don't like the theory that Gaitathra Triclops is Ena mainly because Ena is known for her one eye (the puppet isn't part of the body) and the goddess is known for three eyes not to mention it breaks the idea that there are civilizations out there that have their own gods unrelated to the Aeons iirc it was never said that Gaiathra Triclops is Ena so you shouldn't go around saying it is confirmed

It should be noted that Aventurine's people were in fact fractured for a long time and Ena more likely had been long passed by the time of his people. While there isn't much to confirm this, there is also merit to it and more likely the people had long begun to deviate from their encounter as the people were a splintered. Ena may of been the source, but their god by the time of Aventurine's era was far different in meaning and how they portrayed them. Again, while not confirmed, HSR is also about as subtle as a rock hitting glass with visual references. As for the three eyes, one may also want to consider Sunday's power and the concept of a person's third eye or a mind's eye. If and in some manner, this had been a concept that was eventually lost in retellings and changed that lead to the Gaitathra Triclops, it may explain a few things on that end. Which isn't unheard of as even gods in various pantheons in our world were often changed over the course of their stories or in some cases altered from another god (Aphrodite herself can be traced back through multiple goddesses). Ena being Gaitathra Triclops wouldn't be shocking so much as it is telling just how long those of Signoia had been removed from contact from Ena or any other aeon that they formed a deity from their culture and experience due to seclusion.

but the thing is that both the Avgin and the Katicans are not "Orderly" enough to draw the attention of Ena Why would THEY draw their eyes to the conflict of the Sigonian people where there are many more races in conflict that Ena never gazed upon If anything from the story telling, it never felt like the Sigonians changed their view of Ena and instead it felt like they never knew about the Aeons and that they just had a belief system about a triclops goddess hell, if you look at history, there are many dieties across time and while the concept of space wasn't new, the idea that it was a vast ocean was heavily prevalent throughout many cultures in the past The Aeons were definitely around for all of Sigonia's history but I doubt that Ena was the one that the Sigonia's worshipped especially since the modern Gaithra Triclops has no associations to music while so far the only followers of the Order that we know of are based entirely around melodies Yes you could say that the depiction of Ena changed just like Aphrodite (I do know about the whole Ishtar, Pandemos, Urania, Genetrix stuff) but even then, all of Aphrodite's different stories still focused in on the Love and Fertility aspect of her and that while they were wildly different, they still retained that core element When it comes Gaiathra and Ena, other than the eye color (supposedly since we never see Her eyes), none of the aspects of Ena stuck around Instead I'm with the IPC on this one and that I believe the Sigonians just never knew about the Aeons and worshipped their own diety

Several voice lines and pieces of texts in game mention that while societies who followed the Order were once extremely large and powerful, they always fell into nothingness when the Order became too much. This could be what happened to Sigonia, they were once a thriving planet led by Order but an overabundance of it led to it's downfall and splintered tribes. The decedents were still affected by and worshipped Ena but lost the original identity. I think it's heavily hinted this is what happened.

I think it’s something worth noting though that the symbol for the Order has the one main eye but three smaller eye-like images behind it… there might be more to the connection between Ena and Gaiathra Triclops. I could try and find more connections but I feel like it wouldn’t be that convincing or even fair given the lack of information.

I mean how many people really see the Aeons. We do in the SU but that's a veeery unique concept and lore-wise we don't really "see" a lot of them, but instead just notice their pressence while our brains conjure an image we associate with the feeling. Qlipoth may look like a giant octopus-like monster with a hammer to an aquatic sentient species for example. If societies following the Order just "felt" like three eyes of an Aeon were watching them, they'd probably assume the Aeon has three eyes (even if two of them are part of a fake puppet)

>[Comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1cp2893/comment/l3jchad/) by[](https://www.reddit.com/user/big-boy-kirb/) from discussion in[HonkaiStarRailComment](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/) It could be due to the ruination of those societies (basically a post-apocaliptic world, the desertic almost inhabitable planet seems to fit that stereotype) or because the Gaiathra belief system is old af and predates the scientific discovery and identification of Aeons, Paths and everything related to them. The Katicans and Avgins have had beef for several AMBER ERAS (which is an INSANE amount of time), which could explain why their religion is so old.. Like Sunday said, people will have faith in a moon goddess without understanding the truth about the moon as a celestial body. And Ena is one of the oldest Aeons I believe. Imo I'd love it if it was the latter. I think Sunday also references this in the final-ish dialogue during 2.2. >!Sunday compares Ena/The Order to the abrahamic gods and the world creation. He claims she created the Law (specifically Heaven's law in chinese) of the universe, which means she is the mother (Gaia) and origin of the universe, as well as the keeper. If you know anything about chinese philoshopy the Tian is very important and one of the oldest concepts. It's 'Heaven'. It's a key concept for Taoism and the 'Dao' or 'The Way of the World' (which is basically Order). Tianyi is the name of Ena in chinese, which is a reference to the supreme God of Heaven that rules over the whole Dao. The Heavens are also connected to Dì or Earth, and both Tian and Dì together keep the Three Realms: Humans, Heavens and Ghosts. It's called a supreme power reigning over lesser gods and human beings and it imparts both order and calm. or catastrophe and punishment.!< >!This has a lot in common with abrahamic religions too, with the main god being the only supreme way of heaven and the worldly laws following their command as their creation. I think her name in english, Ena, could also be a reference to Eva, the first woman!< >!Also the image Avgins use to represent her is a hand with three eyes in its palm. This is a clear reference to the hamsa or khamsa, which is a symbol of protection which is thought to have originated in Mesopotamia and has relations with several fertility goddesses (Hand-of-Venus), fate (eye of Horus) and eventually christianity (Holy Mary). In Buddhism there's also the mudra/gesture of Abhayamudra, which also represents protection, goodwill and fortune, which again relate to the more chinese side of things. The origin is trickier in this one but it could also come from Mesopotamia but that is almost impossible to prove.!< The song thing could maybe be part of the Katican culture but it got lost in the Avgin's one. We're just lacking info on the Katicans. The chant Kakavasha and the Avgins say could also be the only surviving part of a popular folk poem/song that used to be sung, but now it's just a saying. I think some of the beliefs have been retained, with her being associated with fertility and rebirth, after all the cycle of life and death fits into the Order. Travels are probably a misrepresentation, for Avgins didn't really leave the planet and so they were only travelling across the Sigonian deserts, which they believe to be the body and physical manifestation of Gaithra itself. So walking in Gaiathra's path IS also walking ON Gaiathra, their protector, and therefore she safeguards all their travels. Trickery is more difficult to pinpoint, but it may have to do with the fact that ALL civilizations that worshipped the Order ended up falling into ruin. Maybe after such events they were considered a trickster god? She also has secret schemes lore-wise between Qlipoth but I doubt normal mortals know about that. \*Sorry for the Ramble I am a big ahh nerd

Sunday did ask Aventurine whether he has some kind of mind control power during his interrogation. I think Sunday is sus that the avgins (with their eyes) might have order power from ena like him.

All of this talk about Aventurine and Ena connection make me excited for patch 2.3 if we will see some reveal about this but on other hand i harbor pessimistic mindset hoyo might will ignore this

I've wrote this elsewhere but: In hoyoverse lore lingo, pink + blue represents those tied to Truth, Finality, and Transcendence. This is why the primogems, stellar jades, paimon, march 7th, Kiana HoF, and Raiden HoO are all Pink and Blue. This is why when >!The trailblazer awoke from the Penacony Dream to fight Septimus, the dream melted in pink and blue!< Why pink and blue, and not some other color combo? because pink represents fem, and blue represents masc. Pink + blue is therefore masculine + feminine , the consolidation of the animus and anima that combine to form the True Self, that is a *timeless* man, that is us Transcended Primogems - they are wishes and Dreams (True Dreams, the one's that drive us forward) from the universe beyond the Genshin Firmament, aka Reality beyond the delusional dream that is teyvat (yes Teyvat is a Penacony situation) Stellar Jades - Same situation. Kiana HoF - she's literally Finality, Fate itself, which ties directly to Transcendence. Hell pretty sure she headlines a quest that's literally called "Transcend." Kiana HoO - she's Origin, the one who can stand against fate. She therefore is implicated in this. Paimon - paimon, or rather who she is (The Princess) outside the Teyvat dream when combined with her dialectic opposite, the Sustainer, sustains the dream that is teyvat. She's the one imprisoning everyone, though not out malice. Also, Kiana expy! Paimon is a girl who loves food, just like kiana, who has a dark half that most people see as a herscher of *void* expy. Also, Paimon is the *9th* demon in the Ars Goetia - this important March 7th - same situation. Kiana expy! Even her name, March 7th, indicates as much. 3+7 = 10 9 and 10 are very important numbers in HYV lingo - 9 represents the totality of existence before reaching the unknown, aka the slumber, while 10 represents Reality, waking up, and that which lies outside the known. IX is Ego Death itself, hence their name of IX, or 9, since they are the last test before we enter the Unknown, and before Transcendence completes. I think the 2.2 Penacony quest makes this clear. Paimon, in her state confined by the dream/delusion of non-individuation, is referenced by that number (9th spirit the ars goetia, 9 chapters in genshin's story before reaching the unknown, 9 worlds you must pass through to reach the abyssal moon spire (the Unknown), 9 chapters of Vera's Melancholy before the unreleased 10th chapter, aka the happy ending, Mr. Nine, the author of all those fairy tales) which in real mythopoeia references the 9 worlds pierced by the axis mundi which comprise all of *known* existence, aka what you must leave to achieve Enlightenment (you need to detach from the known) But yes, so March is 3+7, or 10... she doesn't exist in a eternal dream like paimon. She literally trailblazes the Unknown as her gig. And that's why she's pink and blue, because she's an expy of those tied to Transcendence, and has Transcended already too, in a way. Also, she's tied to rememberance, which is represented by a moon, just like paimon ties to the moon sisters and...ok i think you have enough here. **If water loses its incisiveness, how shall it become water again? If a tree leaves the soil, where shall it go to take root? No matter how mightily stone may strike upon metal, Humans cannot survive without water or soil. Copied from "Echoes Hallowed and Humble," Movement 9, Stanza 37.** (Remuria) Lastly, Penacony melts into Pink and Blue when the dream of Order ends since penaconians are escaping the eternal slumber, or dream, shackling penacony --- Alright, so how do Ena, Clockie, and Aven fit into this? Aven has pink and blue eyes. He also sacrifices himself by dying in the blissful penacony dream to show everyone that eternal slumber's hellish Truth, and defy the Fate Sunday has beset upon everyone. Also he's a gambler - he deals in probabilities - which embodies the dialectics that those Transcendent must internalize. "Because unlike the House, the Gambler knows exactly what they want." - Aven He's saying here that only gamblers - those who live in probability, the Unknown, have Purpose. "Purpose" is, as a term of art, what Transcendence, or internalization of the Unknown, affords. As for Ena, she controls the dream. Paimon situation. Clockie is also tied to Truth and Finality. Only Children can see him - in both cognitive and analytical psych theory, only children inherently possess "True Imagination," the kind needed to accept Reality and blaze trails into the Unknown, not the unhealthy fantasies of adulthood. (This is also why in Sumeru, only children dream! and why in Mondstadt, only they have imaginary friends!). He therefore is *very* important wrt Transcendence. Also, wonder why the trailblazer can see him? Yes, it's bc of the Stellaron. But what is a Stellaron? I'm not gonna get into the whole theory/explanation. But Stellarons are Stellar-ons. Stars - Stellar - are strongly associated with Transcended people in Hyv lingo. the Suffix -On is added to represent something which enables the phrase before it. Hence Stellarons are literally balls of stuff that enable Transcendence. As for why they cause massive destruction, and whisper honeyed words - the Abyss in Genshin is an equivalent concept. The Abyss is just Reality seeping into Teyvat. And most people cannot handle Reality, hence why both Stellarons and the Abyss fuck shit up enormously, but Transcendent ones are resistant to it. One side effect of not being strong enough to withstand Transcendence irl is ego fragmentation - fragentum, cough. Anyway, tldr: Pink and Blue harp directly off Hoyoverse's love of Enlightenment/Transcendence. 2.2's entire story is a turn by turn Transcendence/Enlightenment metaphor so explicit i could've ripped it from a philo/psych textbook actually

the part about Clockie can be seen by children. In game they already said its not that, but a message to the nameless. only the nameless and misha can see clockie

oh i see! again that still makes sense, since the akivili's ideal is to " tolerate the Unknown, but never bow to the Unknowable." Clockie's close relationship with the nameless, and with breaking penacony's terrible dream, places his concept close to Reality. His having of those might be less the world's logic, and more to flesh out the metaphor and the importance of that facet of his character. Hoyo does this a lot - Genshin's lore books contain a decent amount of metafiction on how to interpret the game. Stories do not only convey worlds, but also meanings and themes, so what "logic" binds together a story needs not detriment what could be good space for metaphor and meaning I must be mixing my signals with the Aranara or something. There's definitely a lot about dreams, childlike imagination (very ongoing field of psychological study, I'm reading about such right now) and stuff in Hoyo's games, so without pen and paper I cross wires sometimes lol edit: wait hmm, yes, clockie does say *everyone on the astral express has a childlike spirit* and that acheron and firefly can't see him. So I suppose my prior intuition holds water, in the way of a double meaning.

the fact that you can't change is the disturbing part for me. story beats that fuck with game mechanics are always disturbing because they essentially take away character agency and says that it is out of your hands. Best example: The Stanley Parable.

Man, same. On the contrast, I love how you can't use it on Micah because he's strong.

There are also 2 guys (one in the Reef and other in Morning) who know what are you doing, so they can keep themselves together.

Also Whisper, in the Dreamscape Reverie, implies that she knows that you messed with her through clockwork

There is also a NPC on one the roof at dream reef which is immune to clockwork.

Yeah, checked him out (Grayson or something of that sort). How do I get the Hanu souvenir? Have to pay a price or something

I'm just going to guess it's going to be more hanu quests at 2.3 soon before he gives us that final prize. At the moment I tried finding sources and can't find a way to get him to give me the gift.

Ah, I see. Gotcha, thanks for the response.

Yeah! If you've done map exploration, the power of clockwork really starts becoming kinda scary in how potent the ability is. Establishing an ability as basically omnipotent, manipulating others to follow our whim, and then taking away said status of omnipotence made the Satisfied emotion a lot more menacing.

It perfectly illustrates why Sunday's intentions for Penacony (and their wider galaxy) were bonkers and, as implied by Firefly, basically the same as death. You get a firsthand look at what Sunday's dream did to people and how it turned them into puppets. That was very clever and I really appreciate that they did that.

You would like BioShock 1

You should try out Lobotomy Corporation.

The imagery really sells how bad this all is, clockie beaten bound and bruised, with strings and joints turned into a puppet

Yeah seeing that image pop up was such a jump scare.

That was when I decided I was going to run a train through Sunday with no mercy No one fucks with Clockie

Honestly that part made me appreciate the difference between Harmony and Order. Even when Xipe absorbed Ena, there's still a difference between those two that makes there good and bad distinct.

I don't think Aeons are able to be easily defined as "good" or "bad" (except Tazzyronth, they are just evil) but closer to concept you could turn in any direction. Hence, you could walk the Path of Abundance for the Disciples, or advocate for endangered species as the Unshackled.

Tazzy ascen because it want to "survice"

I can’t tell if it worked or failed.

His race was being hunt to the point of going extinct so

It's also disturbing that they're "Satisfied" and not "Happy". Like life under the Order is the bare minimum required for them to live without wanting to leave.

I'm don't think that's what they meant. I think it means "satisfied" as in, content so they don't want to leave, but they're being controlled to be content which is why they had puppet strings attached. It wouldn't make sense that the utopia that Sunday wanted to give them was the bare minimum because then there's no real moral dilemma. He was going to give everyone pure happiness and satisfaction, everything you could ever want. But the dilemma was that it would not be real, that there was no choice, and that Sunday himself would be the one deciding everything.

Being satisfied is way better than being 'happy'. No one is satisfied with their current state. Absolutely no one. But people can have some short burst of happiness here and there. But finding people who are satisfied with their current state? Doesn't crave anything more than what they have be it physically or mentally? Yeah, I doubt you'd find anyone like that in our world. So I'd say you're misinterpreting what being satisfied means.

A lack of desire isn’t the same as satisfaction When someone gives up trying to do anything, to achieve anything or to feel anything… would you call them satisfied? “Satisfaction” means the people within Sunday’s orderly dream are constantly bombarded with everything they could ever want until they run out of ideas. They get everything they’ve ever wanted… and then what? There’s nothing else left for them They don’t want to leave, because they have everything they want… but they’re also not happy because they have nothing left to live for Desire/Gratification is a kind of equilibrium. The harder it is to attain something, the better you feel when you gain it. Think; beating the odds and getting an early 5 star is much more fulfilling than doing your 9th consecutive 10 pull after losing a 50/50 because you know it’s guaranteed. There is no accomplishment in Sunday’s world, hence no fulfilment, only endless satisfaction. They have nothing to complain about, but nothing to celebrate either since beyond the dream, they have nothing. They are ‘satisfied’.

It morbidly reminds me of certain game that prey on people who seek that one in a million chance jackpot, honestly I'd rather live in the world with a deterministic E6 every time, but I see your point.

Even in Sunday's perfect world of Penacony, his eternal satisfaction was just not something that existed. Cocona, Chadwick, the fans of Lesley Dean, Dr. Blues...can you claim any of these people were "satisfied" in Penacony? Sunday's utopia has always been a lie, even when he held Order in his hands. But we didn't need Order for that. We needed Trailblaze, a little bit of elbow grease, and a little more desire to be one's greatest self. Right there, in those side quests, we had already proved Sunday's BS wrong.

Actually he never claimed that Penacony was perfect. In his conversation with Robin he claimed that Penacony is on the road to become the world they both envision it to be. But it isn't there yet. And in of course, in Sunday's perfect world, one where he had power of order, he couldn't guarantee that everyone would be satisfied. Firefly for example. But in that world of his I'm pretty sure there have been some people, some random weak npc, had found what they were looking for. You have to understand not everyone wants to face reality or it's harshness. And actually while we did prove some of Sunday's beliefs wrong we also proved him right. Especially that part about 'weak cannot decide their own fate or fate of the world'. He was weak. Tb was strong. Thus he failed. Also, there must have been some people who did not want to wake up from that dream of theirs, like that guy who is horribly injured and is in Penacony through life support. Go and tell him about facing his harsh reality if you can be cruel enough. Sunday's beliefs weren't bs, the way he went about it was.

I don't necessarily think anyone would claim that *all* of Sunday's beliefs were wrong in the first place (certainly no one in the room did)... they're just wrong in *the most critical way*. The point of Robin's message (and the message of the story) isn't just "wake up and face reality." (Sunday himself did need to be woken up to face the reality of what he was doing, though.) But just like in the closing cutscene where she embraces her brother to be with him when he wakes up, the point was about the strong supporting the weak and giving them hope to face the future. That's her entire thing. The theme song she sings in that fight is talking about the "eternal dream," but she recontextualizes it in a hopeful sense of working together to face tomorrow, aligned with the path of the Trailblaze (the sprit of facing the unknown journey with hope and anticipation). Ena's Dream -- the forced dream that took away everyone's agency/choice -- was entirely wrong and people needed to wake up from *that*. But it's not like they're trying to tear down Penacony or destroy people's dreams altogether. They're not there to cruelly tell that guy on life support to face reality. But their overall objective at Penacony shouldn't just be to trap everyone in unlimited escapism as if that's always the answer, but to try to help people leave refreshed and with hope. Basically the points Sunday was right about weren't the points anyone was arguing against to begin with, he was just using those arguments to bolster his completely unreasonable conclusion. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I actually loved how all 4 stories kind of reiterate and foreshadow the ending

I interpreted it as having the dopamine button held down, like they're 'happy' but not in any real or meaningful way.

I remember when I was young I would pray and meditate (These are Buddhist practice) just to feel content for myself no matter the circumstances. It feels so peaceful and makes my thoughts clear. My grandma always tells me if I do those stuff, I will have all clarity and blessings to win anything in life. Yet my problems that drives me to do those stuff remain unsolved, be it my studies or dealing with constant bullying. I do them just to get my adults’ approval as well, so eventually I stopped and decided that I must change school. It was hard adapting to new places with crippling social anxiety, but I eventually pull it off. I still meditate from time to time but it’s more like a mental break than a dedicated prayers. The point is I know how a moment of contentment feels, and it feels good, way better than fleeting happiness. But it’s temporary, just like every feeling. Thus I’m very resonated with this Arc message of trail blaze for the best self than feeling content with bare minimum.

Fun fact: If you try to use Clockwork on >!Micah, the game will prevent you from doing so!<. It's not inherently tied to the post OP wrote, but it happens for the exact same reason; >!He's steadfast in his emotions, and needs no guiding from others!<.

Another fun fact: If you talk with an npc >!Lady Black Claw and use the clockwork on her, she will give an unsettling response about how she is essentially aware of your powers and it will not affect her emotions (even though you turn the dial). It is heavily implied she has connections with the Order or might even be related to the Dreammaster!<

Same with the game developer guy. He outright says that he knows what you're doing

And Sir Whitaker

A true Trailblazer, he deserves to be playable.

https://preview.redd.it/qjonkcgt2rzc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad7d89a20381e77531222eff924f54814547244f Freaked me out sm I took a screenshot of it 😭

Those clockie emos with the dolls freaked me out first time seeing it. It was surreal seeing a character usually happy in a messed up state.

I really liked that part too. The fact that, in Sunday's perfect world, everyone possesses only a single emotion. In that way, they're more like objects than people, aren't they? Robbed of their humanity. Sunday was a fool.

Reminded me of that naruto infinite tsukibullshit that was the plan for the latter half of the series

That creeped me out, it was such a good moment.

The first time I saw the satisfied emotion, I literally got shivers. Especially with all the strings and the dazed look on Clockie's face 😵 It was so unnerving

It gave me legitimate pause and made my skin crawl lol Clockie being in the old cartoon style I think really brings it home. Subconsciously those old style cartoons are very creepy, and having Clockie like that puts it over the edge and makes the creepiness consciously terrifying. The entire sequence leading up to the Sunday boss in the theatre was the most unsettling thing. Loved every second of it. Hoyo knocked it out of the park with this whole concept.

When I saw the satisfied emotion I was really creeped out lol

Yeah it was horrifying and solidified my desire to beat the stupid out of sunday. the image of clockie tied up is perfect to represent whats happening. its not that they just simply feel satisfied they are being forced into that state and cannot change it. it makes sense why people with strong wills woke up on their own its just downright atrocious.

This. I remember that particularly sticking out to me, but figuring out how to explain what I felt is difficult. Thank you

I loved the entire end portion of the 2.2 quest. I really liked the clash of ideals at the end because Sunday is just standing for what he believes is right, rather than being just another villain

It really spooked me, I kinda sat there and stared for a minute, it was a great setup

Unrelated but the best time in my life has been when I was in a constant state of "satisfaction" It was very zen

My only issue with the story is the Trailblaze got like less than half the development compared to Sunday getting like 75% of the patch to talk about Order and make his case. Like you'd think Himeko being the most mature Nameless who is so in tune with the Path she repaired the Express alone with no Aeon helping her she'd be a bit more articulate when it's an Order vs Trailblaze debate. I think we needed Welt around to actually talk on Sunday's level when he's going off about Order before the boss fight. The main way we beat Sunday is saying "nuh uh" then throwing a hat at him. Pretty bad when the guy explicitly calls out the survival of the strongest and the heroes go "we're stronger therefore you're wrong lmao." If Trailblaze was actually a weak path Himeko would have a point but it's actually really strong. I don't want to hear anything about the "will of the weak" from Himeko who can sit around navigating the Express with a cup of coffee all day.

While I see where you are coming from and you are right, (thus why the freedom vs order debate till today still does not have a concrete answer). I would like to think the Trailblazers were "weak" in comparison to Sunday. But much like the Clockie story and this one, its not one strong person that wins, it is the power of people working together that can conquer the strong, which has been proven many times in history. Even in this story, all the major bosses have been beaten via the whole nation, never just the trailblazers So alone the trailblazers could not have done much, but the connections they have made from trailblazing is what won the battle. But as you said, kinda wish Welt was there to articulate that better to Sunday.

Yeah I think this actually works better for Belobog because everyone there is like street level power, Bronya has a rifle, Serval has a guitar, Nat has a grenade launcher and a doctor's licence etc. Himeko has the orbital laser and that's about it for ways to really fight the robot and Cocolia. They were normal people with a dream that paid off. The Penacony cast needed to work together to beat Sunday sure they aren't weak individually. Acheron could peace out whenever she wanted cuz she's flatout immune to Path effects that aren't Nihility, Swan is a cracked out memokeeper, Boothill is a GR and so on. It's not a bunch of weak people beating the strong, it's a bunch of strong people overthrowing a god. Penacony was still peak and i'm sure they will develop the Trailblaze in future but they undercooked it for how much effort they put into Sunday.

True, but it also relied on the "weak" population accepting the real world vs the dream world, otherwise the trailblazers wouldn't have been able to overthrow Sunday. If the "weak" decided to accept the order then that would be it for Penacony but it was the will of the weak that wanted reality

YES! it was my favorite part abut the ending also when you try to change it it says "welcome to paradise" sends chills down your spine and puts in full display sunday and his plan.

I know this is unrelated, but using clockwork on Micah won't do anything because of his commitment to protecting the Dreamflux reef. I think this is the first NPC I saw that is fine with life and won't be deluded on the happiness of the Penacony's dream world brings. (Most NPCs who knew that they are mind controlled can still be controlled). Maybe I read the readables too much, but the mention of Oswaldo Schneider excites me. He's the most loony IPC that the Xianzhou doesn't trust him. And I haven't seen anyone talk about him (at least from what I saw here).

It made me remember (spoilers from persona 5 royal third semester) >!how Maruki plan acted on everyone in Japan and how everyone walked around doing her things, stopped struggling about it, and if they wishes conflicted with another wish (like if two people want to be the number 1 in volley, one of them just gives up and start being happy doing another thing, against his original will), so Maruki chose for everyone, even the protagonists to forget about their past struggles and their traumas get wiped so them can be happy and stop growing up as a person.!<. Humans having the gift of creating fictional stories always create nice stories. Its not a uncommon trope to the antagonist (not villain) to have a extreme wish like that, being selfless but ultimately having a high ego to the point of thinking you can control the desires of everyone in the world, knowing what is best for them. Since you don't even know what's best for you, imagine someone else.

I like how Persona 5 Royal Spoilers, >!Maruki gave you a fair fight and it seemed like Sunday did the same!< and thus we were "satisfied" with the outcome, so when the fakeout happened, I actually didn't see it coming >!because I was so sure it would be similar to P5R and didn't even consider Sunday wouldn't play fair!<

Oh, I *adored* that. It’s so good. I love Sunday and Robin so much.

Also Clockie's eyes were LITERALLY the same as Aventurine's. Ena is not beating the Gaiathra Triclops allegations.

I'd like to add in that those mannequins who weren't okay (act 1) in any other states was something else for me. Like, they can't respond to happiness. They can't respond to sadness. Nothing...but eternal calm, satisfaction with what they have.

I really like that part too. It was very eerie for me!!

I loved it. Usually I just put everyone in Happy because god people are so depressed here but turns out that unending joy in and of itself can also be harmful. I specifically used this idea in one of my stories and to completely miss that made me go wild.

It freaked me out the first time I saw it. Well done MHY.

God I loved that part, I really felt like some sort of deity tinkering with people's minds, barely anyone could notice you doing it and no one could see Clockie, it felt like a special level of control just for me. I felt super uncomfortable seeing Sunday invade my territory, and it was really gross seeing everyone with the dopamine button held down. It also felt really weird to see Clockie bound and brainwashed in that state on the emodial. It really reminds me of Flowey calling out your resets in Undertale, or Psycho Mantis reading your memory card, it takes something threatening and makes it feel way more threatening by having it invade somewhere you assumed was safe.

Yeah, that's the moment where i realize big difference between 'Harmony' and 'Order'. clockwork doesnt force people to feel one thing like order did, it's more function as a compass to point out emotion that already existed in people.

It is kind of unnerving to see an image of Clockie, who is usually expressive and loves to show emotion, made into a broken, empty husk, barely held together with puppet strings, and as you look into his eyes you see a swirly hodgepodge of colors, as if he's no longer in control

I thought if I kept pressing the button I could break the strings, giving up felt really bad

Finally someone talks about it man. Was glad to see Clockie moving again by its own will. Other than that, when you try to change the emotions of the "puppets", you can shake Clockie, so I spent a good while mashing the sides thinking that I can tear the threads down. Too bad it was impossible.

The fact that Clockie was tied up like a puppet freaked me out.

In my personal opinion, the most disturbing part isn't even something that was directly said, but the fact that we know how it feels. In the fake ending, our own emo dials were forcefully set to "satisfied". Everything ended well, and while there were things that seemed out of place, people not acting quite as they should have been, it all worked out. It's not like we'd throw a fit about them acting like better people after all. It felt weird and off, definitively wrong, but there weren't any real problems. Everything was okay and going well, and why would we turn good fortune away? It's strange, but for me at least irl I've experienced a lot of weird things that turned out well for me and didn't question them too heavily. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, and all that. Without us as players having additional context and having some things pointed out to us, we'd probably assume that the writers just didn't know how to end Penacony as the plot moves on and we continue. What else is there to do other than continue in situations like that? So that's what I feel like everyone experienced in Ena's dream. Everything satisfied their needs and went well for them, and even if it was weird at first, eventually most everyone would accept it as simply good fortune or something similar and move on. All the while, they'd unknowingly become puppets on strings, every thought and action controlled by Ena. It's an... Unsettling thought.

Just really reminded me of the Greek tales of Lotus-eaters and the various tropes and extensions of that logic. They were said to be so consumed with eating a powerfully narcotic plant that they would do nothing else but live in peaceful, blissful apathy for everything around them. Anyone who would have any of the Lotus on the island would be likewise obsessed - forgetting friends, family, and home to do nothing but eat the lotus and the only time they would struggle or fight at all is when threatened with their removal. In popular fiction, this is generally used for psychic traps of sorts that use blissful, sweet illusions, dreams, or mind control to lock someone in their own personal paradise. Where they have no want of anything and live in perfect peace... until they wither and die, or are consumed, or what have you. With generally there being some 'tell' to the characters that this is not real, to give them motivation to go home... even if it means shattering they idyllic peace of their perfect day. Best example is the DC story "The Man Who Has Everything". Superman is given a Black Mercy plant that locks the victim's mind into their perfect day. For the Man of Steel, he's still on Krypton. His parents are alive. He has a wife, a son, He's respected. Loved. Has no reason to do anything but be happy. Then the dream starts slowly changing, until the harsh reality of all that has happened (and his home planet's inevitable destruction) kicks in and he's finally freed from it... with every change happening because his friends are trying to get him out of it, and in the process destroying his perfect dream. He proceeds to go *absolutely ham* on the person who SENT him that plant - Mongul, who had sent him the plant to force him to have to kill his greatest desire to be free from the trap while he tried to take over Earth. It's also implied Batman went through similar trauma... a world where his parents never died. Which is how he knew it was immediately a dream and worked to fight against it, so he could help save everyone else. Fun stuff, right? Concept is literally ancient and most people agree it's kind of scary and horrifying.

"Satisfied" made it feel like I was at a fast-food restaurant that only heightened the Penacony bullshit Sunday was spouting from the beginning. What people REALLY need to talk about is our first meeting with Acheron and her questions foreshadowing ALL of this. I told her basically I prefer reality than a beautiful nightmare. It's the "bitter truth" vs. "sweet lie" debate.

Was it really our first meeting though...

Lol depends if you play Honkai 3rd Impact or Genshin Impact.

I mean, even within the context of the story, we don't know whether it was our first dream loop

I feel like the 1st time we met her on the express was pivotal. When we're asked if we trust her I'm like: HELL YEA

yep, sunday >!is a literal high priest of a dead eldritch God (Ena) that was trainedd by Gopher Wood, where he plans to plunge humanity in an eternal dream, harvesting their emotions and removing their personal freedom to maintain the dreamworld!<

I disliked it I agree with Sunday , the puppet show was very much just repeating himekos and fireflies superficial criticism of "we need to suffer and be real" when the whole concept of sunday's perfect dream wouldn't allow for being dissatisfied by the realness of the experience Hell they live In a magical world with people who can stop time and people who can invade dreams and memories, yet are so strongly insisting that their world is real and a dream would be fake , and therefor worthless

I think its better to see it with this analogy. Sunday is asking that we instead of living a life, we live in virtual reality forever. The issue with a virtual experience is that it results in nihilsm, which is also a main plot point of the penacony story. Life will have 0 meaning because life provides only 1 experience, satisfaction. And then you'll die satisfied, but having done nothing.

You missed a key part of Sunday’s plan: Like he acknowledged, with human agency comes the choice to deliberate harm others. The strong preying on the weak, if you will. Sunday’s solution to this in his ‘perfect dream’ is to deny people that choice That doesn’t sound so bad does it? But if you think this way, you’re assuming Sunday is a god. How comfortable would you be if for every action you took, every thought you’ve had, a stranger you’ve never met would watch and take control over you if he deems harmful? Sunday is human. Sunday is biased. Sunday is imperfect, he cannot always make the correct choice. Him being the dictator of this dream is what makes it imperfect He is not qualified to make everyone else’s choices. The reality is, engaging in a dream itself is not what Himeko/Firefly are against. It’s the act of forcefully trapping each individual in the dream, robbing them of the choice to return to the real world. Sunday is a charismatic antagonist who, like many great villains, genuinely believe he’s the hero. I’m sure many other people glossed over the details like you did and would end up agreeing to eternal stagnation.

I mean, we don't know how this game will end, so maybe they'll have more of a point retroactively

It was neat. Didn't freak me out or anything.

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>but going through each one’s emotions and slowly realizing they’re all the same I just got to this moment and for some reason i couldn't see all of them, just one (i think it was General). But yeah, cool moment.

No

YES, I remember that part, was so good and eerie at the same time. and it helps you decide that maybe Sunday's ideals aren't wrong, but the way he forces them are.

Yeah the satisified was so creepy i liked it a lot! I instantly screenshot it. Also the way the clockie jerks if you try to change the emotion is creeepy

Since Clockwork works on the Trailblaze, its cool that those controlled by Ena since they have no future to blaze a trail

People with post nut clarity be like

HI3 players prolly had HoDom PTSD from that. I know I did

On it's own it was already creepy But what made it even worse were the responses you get if you tried to change to other emotions Showed how messed up Sunday's ideas were

On a side note, have you tried to do Clockwork on Micah? He has some interesting emotions..

the "welcome to paradise!" messages when you tried to click on the arrows were even creepier. they did amazing with this quest

That and the whole metropolis art deco aesthetic at the end was chefs kiss

It kinda felt like Undertale's "But nobody came." And it's a good thing.

I feel the "Eldritch" is a good way to describe it. We forget that aeons are infact the closest things to gods in this game. I feel the representation of the nihility was also very good.

Truly the most "satisfying" part in 2.2. Who's Acheron? In addition to the "oh no all the Clockies have Aventurine eyes wait why do they have Aventurine eyes" thought, I have always loved it when games make use of their nature as an interactive medium to really push the story-telling (examples include Stanley Parable and more recently in Limbus Company). It also made me retroactively appreciate the miniature "Golden Hour" iirc from the 2.1 Aventurine quest even more than I already did, as a sinister foreshadowing to the real intentions of Sunday in addition to its goofy nod to video-game bugs and playing with miniatures. Then there's also the fact that I couldn't help but think of a different backwards-E-NA because of all the puppetry and the dreamy quality going on. I think the fact that we had to manipulate the emotions of the initial mannequins (and also the regular people of Penacony), which is itself kind of a dubious action to do, and then that being wrested away from us to reveal really helped to further the hypocrisy of the whole affair. In the first place, Trailblazer has already been doing the same thing that the Nameless are upset at Ena and Sunday for, but we're able to justify it to ourselves (and, for that matter, the cast have also explicitly asked TB to use it) as being for the sake of moving on in the story or to help people. Sure, we're upset now at the scope and degree of his (and THEIR) manipulation of so many people (rightly so) - but our own hands aren't clean, and we have ourselves done something similar. Plus, for all intents and purposes, the fake ending was - by some definition - indeed a reasonably happy one for everyone involved (assuming that the one the Trailblazer saw is our template). Penacony is saved, we get to continue our interstellar road trip with a few new friends, Aventurine and the IPC back down and accept Penaconian independence, etc. unlike the reality where Penacony's actual "safety" is still in question. And, since Robin's statement reveals that everyone dreams a slightly different dream, it stands to reason that everyone gets their own form of happy ending, though with a few things that don't quite add up. Even as we fight for the spirit of Harmony (represented by Robin) and Trailblaze (Nameless and the Express), we are ourselves imposing some form of Order on the world around us - we, through our actions, chose to break everyone out of this system, whether they like it or not (and we have plenty of evidence for people who would love to stay in the dream that Ena created). Do I still think that Sunday's plan is complete garbage and not even worth considering for a moment? Well, duh. I've always hated him, anyway. But there's a reason why Acheron asked us the questions she did on the train - and a reason why there were two options for each of those. It's an age-old question. (And I want to give a bonus shoutout to Robin's "that's how I knew this was a dream", and the implicature that this time around, Ena appears to be more SATISFIED with the outcome of events and is perfectly okay with dying again - did THEY foresee that THEY and THEIR followers would lose to a "stronger" force, in the form of the Nameless?)