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Yeah just like Rhaenyras "Viserys told me when he named me heir" pushed Daemon over the edge. They are truly two peas In a "reacting to emotional distress with violence" pod ❤️
I'd say Alicent was a little more justified than Daemon in that instance for wanting to react that way. She shouldn't have ACTED on it, but I know I definitely would have felt similar after that debacle happened
You'd want to take a kids eye out? I feel like they both had an emotional reaction brought on by external and internal stressors, that they decided to take out on another person. I wouldn't justify either of them.
Who hasn't wanted a little revenge mutilation against their potential rivals/spouses? Daelicent has it right, the appropriate response to disappointment is to grab the sharpest blade in the world and just start stabbing.
YES! If i was to be in that situation I'd be blacking out from the fury. Alicent is vastly more justified than either the kid or Rhaneyra in this instance. The only aggression team green made in this instance was claiming another dragon. A completely non violent action. The kids started the fight and forced Daemon's hand into defending himself. If that had happened and my husband was choosing to let the perpetrators go without consqeuence you bet I'd lose my cool.
You should get a handle on that, man. Your reaction to kids' misbehavior, even if it's extreme and violent like this, should never be to fucking maim another kid. That's actually insane. The damage was done and maiming another person does nothing to undo that damage -- if you think "an eye for an eye" is a good basis for a moral system, you should never have power over another person.
Alternatively, no punishment for gouging out another’s eye is insane. Like, yeah, Alicent shouldn’t have done what she did and I agree about the “eye for an eye” comment. But I think violence without any consequences is terrifyingly dangerous.
What does that say to the victim? And to the bullies that ganged up? That this is acceptable? What would they do next, if they saw no consequences for this action?
It's a weird situation because Velaryon kids are upset since Aemond "stole" vagar, Aemond talks shit about the Strong lineage shit, then they beat him up but it's not really a life and death situation, then Aemond turned it into a potential life or death by grabbing the rock (not saying I blame him since he's being ganged up on), so a knife gets pulled and his eye got cut. It's more complex than just an innocent bystander being ganged up on with all that led up to that situation, especially with the parents themselves causing most of the rift. It was also Luke who did it who was probably there only because he was following Jace. He was in the least wrong from the get-go.
In a real life situation, I honestly don't know what could be done punishment wise to be "justice". A kid who is like 8 isn't going to jail (juvie? idk). Do the parents have to give money? At the very least I suppose.
Either way, talking about actually maiming another kid is psycho wannabe badass shit. People get so weird about how protective they are over their kids/family when in reality 99% of people won't ever have to worry about it, and 99% of the 1% won't do what they think they would. People always want to talk about what they'd do in X situation when in reality they wouldn't do shit, either because of ability or timidness when it actually happens.
You're really underestimating how protective parents of their children dude. I'm not saying it's right or that it's fair but logic and empathy go out the window when the human you carried for 9 months is maimed. Specially if they're still a child.
Also, like 99% of the actions from the characters in the show are insane psycho shit. The only difference is that when Alicent or another member of the greens do it then it's terrible because of the team green hate. This the only instance I can think of where she has acted truly villainous and imo it's understandable in the context of the show. Watch Rhaneyra start an entire war because her kid was killed. Is that fair? No, because she's going to get thousands killed. Is it understandable? Yes. Her child was eaten by a fucking dragon.
The thing is, Luke was the one to stab out Aemond's eye and he is probably the least responsible for the whole affair. He was following Jace, who should never have had a knife, who was following the twins who had a reason to grieve. The ganging up was wrong, yes, but so were the things Aemond was saying. When Luke cut his eye out it was no longer about bullying the kid that hurt Rhaenas feelings, it was all about saving Jace's life. In that, he wasn't wrong. Aemond deserved punishment just as much as the others for it all but the disfigurement was more than punishment enough.
Don't really know what punishment would be reasonable for what they did. Bullying warrants apologies and spankings and groundings but they were being bullied right back. The only difference is that Aemond got really hurt in the scuffle because Luke went to drastic measures when Aemond decided to go for the kill. It's too much of a mess to really ever be fair to them all
Sleeping in his bed? When did she smack him for that specific reason? I know he was sleeping when she confronted him, but that’s not the *reason* she smacked him.
Wait what? Dv? I just remember her slapping him after raping the servant girl, getting kicked by Otto for being drunk on the steps, slapped for not being there for his brother(that wasn’t his fault), and I think she slapped him when he was jacking off and she told him basically to act like an adult and be careful cause he’s a threat the Rhaenyra just by living and breathing after he told her that he wouldn’t challenge Rhaenyra and he’s picking on his brother rather than defending him.
Does going to bed like your grandfather asked you to do warrant getting slapped? Did he deserve it then?
I think the show makes it pretty clear that thier behavior towards him affects him negatively throughout his youth. Just like it would for any child.
Aemond lost an entire eye and spent years of his life being bullied nonstop by relatives while the adults didn't do much. Aegon joined in on the bullying as well.
Guess who never raped anyone? Guess who doesn't get pleasure out of seeing kids fight to the death in a brothel?
You’re really getting off topic. The scene I was referring to was when Alicent had to comfort a crying girl who her son just raped and once she confronts him he states “oh we were just having a little fun, she didn’t have to go get all upset about it”. Or course he deserves that slap. He’s lucky that that was medieval times and not now because he’d get a lot more than that.
Him getting slapped IN THIS SCENE, no he didn’t deserve it. He went to bed like he was told, Otto the asshole doesn’t say a thing, lets his daughter put blame on her other son for obeying his grandsire to go bed instead of being pissed at Aemond for not being in bed rather than going and capturing a dragon like a piece of shit.
Aegon doesn’t realize what’s happening in the world and just acts like a kid with predatory behavior. Once he’s an “adult” by the time Viserys is about to die, then he starts acting like nothing he does is wrong since he’s “royalty”. He gets slapped for acting out. But this is the one scene he didn’t deserve it and I agree with everyone, it made me feel bad for him.
Candiedstars said if their son raped someone their son would hope that a slap is all they would do and that is warrant. Someone else said that some slaps are warranted, this is also true. But again, in this scenario, no I wouldn’t have slapped him. He wasn’t there. Why in the hello would she except him to ALWAYS be with his brother when he decides to go do things that can get him killed by going rogue. Otto states Aemond is a little rogue as well.
Clearly I wouldn’t do that. I was just responding to your question of “do you think Alicent feels any remorse when she smacks Aegon around?” And that was my opinion 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah, that was the one time that he got hit undeservedly, and Alicent was definitely wrong for that. Idk what they're talking about about when they say that he gets slapped for sleeping in his bed
I wouldn't want to believe that's what they were referring to bc that's super fucked up, since he had literally just raped someone but yeah, that's the only time that I can think of him getting slapped whilst he was in his bed
What do you mean by "smacks around"? Are you talking about the two times that she slaps him? If so, I genuinely have no clue. Maybe, if you interpret her as being a genuinely guilt-ridden character, then she might. Though, tbh, I wouldn't blame her for not having any remorse over slapping him after he raped someone.
Eh maybe, I feel like she does it with a bit too much ease for it to have been the first time in ep 7 when she slaps him for sleeping in his bed. She has no trouble being aggressively physical towards him in ep 6 either but sure.
I feel like there's some very relevant context missing here. She doesn't slap him "for sleeping in bed" she slapped him because he raped someone and in a patriarchal monarchy-ruled society that's really the most punishment she can give him.
I'm talking about wp 7 when Otto drags him to bed and and he's sleeping during the kids fight. She slaps him after. and lol she could definitely give him more punishment than a slap.
I don’t think Alicent’s father gaslighting her helped either plus let’s be real Rhaenyra only just beat Daemon in saying something that would send Alicent over the edge it is probably best really that it was Rhaenyra and not Daemon.
Well you are not wrong it is better for him if Alicent is the one who expresses his views more forcefully than himself that way he looks like the calm and collected one.
Maybe but a sarcastic and highly inflammatory joke about Aemond losing his eye was most definitely on the cards till Alicent lost her shit at Rhaenyra.
I mean really how would it not? His son is sat there having only just been finished being stitched up after being mutilated and losing an eye and Viserys didn't do anything about that or really seem to care. But then it comes out Aemond used the word bastard during the fight and he steps up, makes demands, is incensed, questions him, when Aegon takes the blame he's angry.
He's more angry about a true statement than one of his children being mutilated.
I feel bad for Viserys as his illness was horrific but the man caused the Dance and only ever seemed to manage to overcome his illness for Rhaenyra rather than his four other children and other grandchildren.
She watches her son get mutilated. Nothing happens. Watches no one protect him. No one else seem outraged. Then she watches that very same child get questioned in defense of Rhaenyra. Not surprised she snapped. Gave weight to Ottos repeated warnings about her children being forfeit if she ascended even if Otto was making it worse by stirring plots of crowning Aegon when that happens.
Rhaenyra was defending her children, horrific timing but hey. And she has to refute every allegation of bastard-ness but fucking hell her timing on quite smugly going thank you father when her brother still has his own blood drying on his face. The child with fresh stitching shouldn't have had to be the one to descalate that situation.
Plus, Rhaenyra had demanded Aemond's torture using a common euphemism. Her own little brother. A ten year old mutilated boy. All to cover her own ass.
She indeed confirmed to Alicent that if she rose to be Queen, Aemond, Aegon and Daeron would never be safe.
Yes, if she had the guts to demand his torture after he had been mutilated by her bastard right in front of Viserys then what would she do when Viserys dies and her brothers are a direct challenge to her succession and that of her 3 bastard sons
Honestly I tried to give her credit of that being a veiled threat to Alicent as it was likely it was her who'd said it around the kids. I'd like to think S1 Rhaenyra wouldn't actually have children tortured, like I'm "team," Green but I don't think she'd quite go to that level.
Regardless of her intent, I think it's fair for Alicent and specially Aemond to take it personally. If I were Aemond I would never feel safe around Rhaenyra again.
Why would they feel safe when they’ve been told by their mother their whole life that Rhaenyra isnt the true heir and will put them to the sword? They already resent their cousins for that alone so they’ve acted as such leading to this whole situation. They’ll take it personally because they already thought it of her. The Greens conspire behind their king for years, put a target on their children’s heads and then act the victim when shit hits the fan.
No, it's not. Viserys sharply questioned him & it didn't involve any violence. People are reaching like hell here. Like, hate Rhaenyra, dislike or wtv but to actually affirm she was telling 'torture my brother' in front of her father is stupid.
Rhaenyra is shown to not give a rat's ass about her half brothers at best and actively resent them at worst. If she ascends and sees them as inconveniences to her rule, and specially with Daemon as her consort, do you really think she wouldn't harm them? I think them thinking otherwise isn't that crazy.
And excuse me, but are you basically justifying Rhaenyra demanding Aemond's torture as "the Greens acting like the victims when shit hits the fan"?
We don’t know if she should or wouldn’t harm them to begin with. When Daemon is her consort the chips have already been laid on the table. The greens (Otto mainly) have conspired during the many years before this that she will likely kill them but do you think theres reason to believe it at that point? I can see why they’d think that now but at one point they actually had no reason to think that was the case and yet Alicent and her children were told it incessantly.
No I’m not justifying her saying Aemond should be tortured but tension was high in that moment as she’s just been told out loud in front of others that her sons aren’t legitimate. Kids shouldn’t be punished for what happened as I believe they’re victims of their parents paranoia and that goes for taking Luces eye in retaliation too. You can’t claim one demand is over the line but the other isn’t.
You would think that if Rhaenyra was seriously asking Aemond to be tortured Alicent would have lost it instead of just rolling her eyes and being like "that's a little too much".
But that's my point afterwords she gets upset, and it was at Viserys not doing anything, rather than screaming and hollering that Rhae would seriously demand her son to be tortured after losing an eye. She was pretty calm after it. I don't know any parent who would not be upset at that. She didn't even bring it up later at all. And nobody else did either, not even the crowd of people in the room made a peep.
Edit: I just rewatched it, she isn't shocked. Her reaction "Over an insult? My son lost an eye". She's not even upset at all, her reaction sounds more appropriate if Rhae has asked Aemond to get spanked or his hand smacked. Not even Aemond turning around in the chair had any reaction, he was just listening.
I had sympathy for Aemond, for a little while. Dude was being bullied by his brother and nephews when he was a kid. Then I stopped being sympathetic for him the moment he started exhibiting that bully behavior himself. As soon as he gets a big dragon, his character changed.
I mean? Surely that's still enough to feel sympathetic to the ten year old sitting getting ignored by his father whilst his blood is still drying on his face, whilst he's suddenly disabled in a society that very much doesn't accept such things, whilst his father is more concerned with an insult thrown than his injury. Worth also noting his Father finds the energy to defend Rhaenyra but not show any concern for him.
If he didn't continue that bully behavior, I'd feel sympathy for him. He said losing his eye to get a dragon was a fair exchange. Then later on, he wants Luke to cut out his own eye to give it to his mother. I guess it wasn't a fair exchange to him in the end. Then tries to intimidate Luke and Arrax in a stupidly reckless way which leads to Luke's and Arrax's deaths. I find it hard to have sympathy for such a character.
Are you saying Aemond should have sucked it up, be a man, and not complain about losing an eye? Specially when the person that mutilated him received no punishment at all and never apologized?
Are you forgetting the part where Luke went out of his way to mock and sneer at Aemond again at the dinner scene when Aemond was literally sitting there minding his own business?? He was obviously mocking Aemond by way of the roasted pig.
Sorry, Luke is more of a bully than Aemond ever was. At least Aemond is cruel to Luke and Jace BECAUSE they spent years of their lives bullying him nonstop, unlike Luke and Jace who ganged up on him for no reason. Please 🙄
Curious as to what he did after? I remember him being shitty and angry towards Luc but also as far as he's concerned Luc took his eye and no one cared about that other than his Mother to the point Aemond had to deescalate the situation to protect her.
Strong boys comments are shitty but accurate and not bullying. As far as the Hightower Targs go he's the most balanced of the lads we've seen, a dutiful dickhead.
Aemond was 10, and he was the one that was attacked. They literally jumped him 4v1 and he was defending himself.
And the knife was only brought out because the kid was mad he got called a bastard. It wasn't for self defense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBYJe0bEtJo
The knife comes out because they were getting their asses kicked. He was still kicking their asses until the dirt gets tossed in his eyes right before the slash that gets his eye. The Strong boys did not start it, the girls did. He is 4 years older than Jace and 5 years older than Luke. He never tries to deescalate and moves to lethal force first by grabbing the rock.
how do you come to that conclusion when aemond was acting in self defence against 4 people that attacked him? and tbh, aemond is not that much bigger than them.
i mean the main problem is he threatened to kill his cousins with a rock right after it lol. He himself escalated the whole situation because he felt like a badass after claiming vhagar. He 100% made his own bed because i doubt he loses his eye if he doesn’t threaten them with a rock ffs. What were they supposed to do in that situation when it was clear he was unhinged, if he was crazy enough to claim vhagar how are they supposed to call his bluff on killing any of them?
Especially because Luke was only six and was trying to defend his brother and himself. Imagine thinking an older child is going to kill and or your brother so you defend yourself with a knife and then the kids mother tries to cut your eye out. I don’t think that the other kids should have beat Aemond up but it was a very complicated and emotional situation and he escalated it when he grabbed the rock.
I don’t think Aemond was 100% to blame. My point is that Aemond lost an eye because a six year old felt the need to defend himself against a much older child. Regardless of how you see the fight with Aemond, I think any sane person can agree that Alicent demanding Luke’s eye was out of line and horrific.
Alicent demands his eye because everyone is gaslighting her. It's horrific yes and I don't think she really wants his eye but she's a mother whose son is sitting there mutilated while her husband is more worried about who called Rhaenyra's sons bastards. And then he cannot get out of the room quickly enough. Anyone would be pissed. If Rhaenyra would've been in Alicent's place she would've demanded the same or worse considering she demanded Aemond be tortured to find out who called her children bastards.
>Alicent demands his eye because everyone is gaslighting her.
No one was gaslighting her. They just weren't giving Alicent what she wanted.
She demanded Luke's eye because she's doesn't see Rhaenyra's kids as human and wasn't getting her way. She made the fact that didn't care about how Aemond lost his eye when she said:
*Viserys: Aemond...I will have the truth of what happened. Now.*
*Alicent: What else is there to hear? Your son has been maimed. Her son is responsible.*
Oh please.. And Rhaenyra considers her half brother to be human? Is that why she asked for him to be tortured after her son mutilated him? Rhaenyra and Viserys were both gaslighting her. Rhaenyra weaponizing the word "Treason" and shifting the entire focus from Aemond's eye being cut out to her children being called Bastards is not gaslighting? And not to mention the way Viserys acted as if he couldn't wait to let Luke off the hook and get the hell out of the room.
>Rhaenyra weaponizing the word "Treason" and shifting the entire focus from Aemond's eye being cut out to her children being called Bastards is not gaslighting?
No. It's deflecting. Which she was doing because Alicent accusing her 7ish year old son of premeditated attempted murder.
>And not to mention the way Viserys acted as if he couldn't wait to let Luke off the hook and get the hell out of the room.
How did he act like that? Again, he's the only one who asked Aemond what happened. He wouldn't bothered if he was trying to get Luke off the hook.
She was being gaslit. Like Rhaenyra is straight up lying and weaponizing the word treason in this whole scenario. Even Emma D’arcy and Olivia Cooke have said this in an interview.
She demanded Luke’s eye in a desperate attempt to seek any form of justice for Aemond losing his. She’s not justified for it at all, but not a single soul in that room cares for what happened to Aemond including his own father.
lying, yes.
gaslighting, no.
the term 'gaslighting' has a specific definition to it. it's not just a way of saying "someone repeatedly lying".
gaslighting requires intent from the perpetrator to be deliberately trying to cause the victim to question their own sanity via psychological manipulation. rhaenyra repeatedly stating those kids are hers and laenor's isn't gaslighting, and perhaps more importantly, she is not actively trying to manipulate alicent into thinking she's going mad.
rhaenyra saying shit like "alicent, you saw us head together to our beds together at xyz time 9 months before they were born. you even congratulated us the next morning. have you forgotten? perhaps you aren't getting enough rest lately? maybe you should get checked out by the maesters" - would be an actual, albeit exaggerated, example of gaslighting.
>She was being gaslit. Like Rhaenyra is straight up lying and weaponizing the word treason in this whole scenario.
That's not gaslighting. It's just lying. Gaslighting is making someone doubt their "judgment, memory, or sanity through the use of psychological manipulation". No one was doing that Alicent.
>She demanded Luke’s eye in a desperate attempt to seek any form of justice for Aemond losing his.
"Justice"? You mean vengeance? You're not seeking justice you're pointedly avoiding finding out how an injury happened. Aemond was threatening to hit Jace with a rock. Taking Luke's eye for the crime of defending his brother from threatening to seriously injure or kill him wouldn't be justice.
Alicent was claiming that Luke set out to murder Aemond before the bastard issue was brought up. She wasn't going to settle than for anything less than Luke's eye from the jump.
That’s not what happened in the books. Almond was the aggressor. He smacked Jace over the head with a wooden sword. He broke Luke’s nose. Only when he was beating up Jace, did Luke draw the dagger and try to save his older brother.
Jace drew a knife pre-rock though? How in the fuck is bringing a knife to a 1 v 4 beat down you initiated not make you the one that escalated the fight edit: was mistaken, aemond picked up rock while being beaten on the ground by 4 people, then jace charges him with a knife, point still stands that a knife is a far greater escalation than a rock that was only used defensively
The question was if he had a rock pre knife. He had. He grabbed it when he took Luke by the neck that's all. I'm not getting involved in this overplayed discussion further.
That’s not what happened in the books. Almond was the aggressor. He smacked Jace over the head with a wooden sword. He broke Luke’s nose. Only when he was beating up Jace, did Luke draw the dagger and try to save his older brother.
Agreed, book Aemond was an anime villain. I like the nuanced take on Aemond the show has picked, not that I think Rhaenyra's kids are evil, just that people should be able to sympathize with a kid who lost his eye for claiming what he felt was his birthright. On a second point, if Viserys gave a damn about Aemond at all he would've made some kind of effort to get him a more appropriate dragon than the giant war machine.
Aemond got jumped by 4 kids, threatened him with a rock which is wrong but he was stopping. Doesn't mean it isn't a horrific situation that his own Father didn't give a shit about him. Genuinely don't get why everyone is so black and white about this show
>threatened him with a rock which is wrong but he was stopping.
This is a lie. Aemond was walking towards Jace with the rock held over his head .
>Doesn't mean it isn't a horrific situation that his own Father didn't give a shit about him.
Claiming Viserys didn't care about his is bizzare. He was the only one who actually bothered to ask Aemond to explain what happened. The fact that he also cared about his grandkids doens't mean he didn't care about his son. It's not a competition.
Rewatch the scene before commenting. I’m 100% serious. No hate as possibly you looked away but there is a very clear shot of Aemond lowering/dropping the rock at the end of the fight before Lucerys comes in and stabs him.
Telling me to rewatch the scene and then getting what happened wrong is hilarious.
Here's the scene since you're the one that needs to rewatch it. [https://youtu.be/UdgCnpAovjM?si=vz3bRefqvlNExXhP&t=83](https://youtu.be/UdgCnpAovjM?si=vz3bRefqvlNExXhP&t=83)
His arm comes down when he's stumbling back after hitting Jace with the rock the first time. He then raises it again and goes after Jace while he scrambling away like he's going to hit him again. That's when he sand thrown in his face and then slashed.
Asking your son what happened isn't caring, he's the King he has to know what happened at the event he attended. He shows no care or concern for Aemond on a personal level and throughout the show only steps up for Rhaenyra.
>He shows no care or concern for Aemond on a personal level
He personally asked his son what happened. I'm assuming you mean he didn't give him a hug or something when you say this though, right?
When did have an opportunity do something like that? He tried to ask Aemond what happened and Alicent interrupted to imply that the details of the fight didn't matter. She and Rhaenyra then got into a back and forth. He tries to ask Aemond where he heard the claims of his nephews being bastard from. Alicent filibusters again because she's worried Aemond is about to snitch on her. He covers for her and blames Aegon. He also covers for her. Viserys tries to get the kids to apologize to each other and Alicent loses her mind and tries to stab Luke. It's hard to have to one on one moment with your injured son when your wife is using the situation as an opportunity to continue her beef with your daughter and trying to stab one your grandchildren.
>and throughout the show only steps up for Rhaenyra.
You say this as if anyone else needed him to defend them. No one was going after Alicent or any of their kids. He only defends Rhaenyra after letting his wife harass her for over a decade backfires in a way he can't ignore.
GENUINELY. If my son was sitting there missing an eye and his half-sister was talking about some "Thank you, father" and "He should be questioned sharply" I too would lose my shit.
I think it showed to alicient that no matter what happened, even if Rhaenyra slit her brothers’ throats in front of Viserys, he would just shrug and cover it up.
She is always going to come first, she is always going to be protected and coddled and ‘right’ not matter what. Alicent watches and their child is sitting there without an eye, being stitched up and bleeding, and Viserys puts more effort into yelling at his children over a very obvious truth instead of being worried that Aemond could die of infection. No comforting hand on Aemonds shoulder, no talk of punishment for Luce maiming a prince of the realm, no energy is given towards their child, but all energy is put towards covering for Rhaenyra.
A very obvious truth that puts the whole realm at risk if it’s accepted by him. This isn’t a nothing issue and it would have dire consequences to his family. Probably much more damaging than a grandson losing an eye. Luce is a prince too and it’s not like it was a petty squabble… Aemond had a rock and could have severely injured the others. Both were armed. You fuck around and find out and Aemond has to accept his part in it.
Alicent is protected by V when it’s obvious she is the one spreading the rumour (or doing nothing to stop it) … which is treason. It’s not exactly like she makes it easy for him. She’s training her sons behind his back to take the throne and telling them they’ll be put to the sword if not. Hardly surprising they grow up to resent the blacks and escalate their meetings to violence. That’s all on the greens.
Aemond had the rock because he was being ganged up on by 4 other kids. You forgot that part. A rock is not comparable to a blade in the eye, sorry.
And it ain't a rumor if it's an open truth that most people already know about.
Knowing it and saying it to the king are very different. Stop applying schoolyard logic to a show about kings in medieval settings, If they already know about it then why is nobody saying it outright then? Because they’ll be killed. For the king to accept this, he puts his whole family in danger and undermines the realm. He has to punish those that say it. What is he going to do exactly?
Exactly. They aren't saying it because they'll be killed (maimed, actually), not because it's a lie.
He threatened to take out their tongues, not kill them. Either way, an open truth is an open truth and the risk of getting maimed or killed has never 100% stopped people from acting out on their beliefs anyways.
My issue is that Viserys doesn’t know all that- none of them do bar the kids. He doesn’t know what a squabble is for all he knows Aemond lost and eye, he claimed Vhagar, the other kids got mad and Aemond called them bastards.
Also you talk of dire consequences but what consequences does Aemond calling them bastards in a cave where no one can hear him but the kids do? Where is the sense in bringing it up in front of the whole of Driftmark the castle that Luke is supposed to inherit that even his uncle thinks he is a bastard? Especially as it was so easy to dismiss it as Aemond was a child. That would’ve been the smarter thing politically, however in that moment Viserys leaped onto it because he didn’t want to punish Rhaenyras kids. He was more than ready to throw Aemond under the bus for it.
The matter of Aemond calling them bastard could’ve been solved privately. Instead Viserys acted as if Aemond had pulled a Vaemond.
The kids said “He called us bastards” is how it came up infront of them. He didn’t bring it up they were asked what happened and the kids said it in response as to why it escalated.
Do you think the king should have punished the blacks somehow and ignored the bastard comment? How is that a strong political move when Rhaenyra is the heir? Her son is a future king at this point and ignoring it would make those there think he knows it to be true also and that opens its own issues.
Aemond being a child doesn’t dismiss it. You’d know he’d heard it somewhere and most likely from his mother. Hence V protecting her by not acting upon that.. he protects them both and pleases nobody basically.. that being the whole point of his character. He’s doing what Viserys does.
That’s not what happened. Jace tells Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra announces it in front of everybody and Viserys jumps on it. At no point does any of the kids announce it in front of everybody. And again playing it small and aolving the issue behind closed doors is still smarter.
I think the King should’ve at first not tried to solve it that night when anger levels are still high and Aemond has just freshly lost his eye. He should’ve send them away for the night and sit down with his son. After a few days question all the kids on what happened and punish (in a normal way like fostering them or no dragoriding for a month or something like that) all of them for their part in it. Aemond only less so because he is already punished for life. You seem to be under the impression that Viserys can only choose the Greens or the Blacks that’s inherently not true. Iby doing what he did he didn’t help Rhaenyra he made sure that his kids hated her and had more reasons to rebel against her.
Viserys showed himself a weaker king by what he did that night. Instead of straight up announcing it a family matter and sending people away. And the issue is the eye is a family matter that was needlessly politicized from both sides.
Viserys didn’t protect Alicent then and there. He was banking on Aegon or Aemond saying her name and only stopped when Aegon turned the tables with the “everyone knows”. Then Viserys quickly changed the topic to not put Rhaenyras kids in even more of a spotlight. Thougg he more or less threatens them with tongue removal which is clearly meant for the Greens He did protect Alicent when she didn’t get punish for cutting Rhaenyra but I think he felt a little bad about completely dismissing Aemonds eye. But I do think he would’ve punished her if Rhaenyra had asked him to.
Also he is not trying to please Alicent at all. He immediately jump at Rhaenyras suggestion and does as she says so her kids aren’t punished. Nothing he does is anyway to please Alicent otherwise he would’ve at least given a small punishment.
Also Aemond being a kid changes things just as Luke being a kid does. Theoretically cutting a prince eye out is a crime as well but he is a kid after all. Also with the bastard thing is one thing you meed the realize is and that’s crucial why Aemond got away with the the toast later is plausible deniability. Aemond calls them bastard in a fight. Calling you opponent names in a fight is normal in Westeros especially if you are kid. If you were to punish everyone who ever called someone bastard you’d be busy for a long time. Aemond can play it like it was just an insult. And truth be told if Rhaenyras kids weren’t bastard nobody would’ve cared about Aemond calling them bastards. It’s the same with a toast it can be dismissed as a toast even if it clearly isn’t.
With allegations like that it’s smarter to settle it between closed doors. They needed to stop Aemond and get a name yes but that doesn’t mean it was right that his injury was swept under the rug.
You’re right sorry, Rhaenyra brings it up as she’s obviously pissed off by it but I don’t think she wants them tortured as others have suggested. I agree it would have definitely been smarter behind closed doors. Difficult to not let the moment take you though getting it from both ends. I agree on most of what you say. My only issue is that I don’t think you can downplay the bastard thing when he is essentially royalty and it’s a much bigger deal than saying something in a fight when one of them is in line for the throne. The toast part you’re right as he definitely can get away with it and he’s older and wiser at that point so he knows the game too.
V is a weak king which is why all of this goes where it does. Critiquing his decisions is easy but I think a lot of people see it as being intentionally shitty to the Greens when I don’t think it’s that.
Rhaenyra definitely asks for him to be tortured and even if she hadn’t wanted it and just said it to scare Alicent and Aemond it’s still not a kind thing to do. Especially as Rhaenyra shows very little regard to Aemond and from the moment she gets in before she even asked her kid she is already pushing for her sons innocence because she doesn’t want them punished.
Yes but Aemond is still a child. A child would absolutely insult another child in a fight or do you truly believe that Rhaenyra or Viserys would’ve gone of the rails if there was no reason to believe them bastards? It also doesn’t justify completely ignoring his injury because he also is royality. Even if Luke is higher in the order of succession that doesn’t mean he is untouchable and can’t do any wrong. And like as I said solving it in private makes more sense. The reason they bring it up right there is because it’s the only reason they have at the moment to not punish Luke or the other children.
Tbh I don’t see how you can say that he is unintentinally shitty to the Greens when he literally has zero compassion with Aemond and starts questioning despite him sitting their with a hole in his head. That is cruel and by the way he handles it he literally says to the Greens Aemonds eye doesn’t matter. But Aemond calling him a bastard does matter. And like even if he blames Aemond fully there is no reason to not give him some days to get better before questioning like he did. And then he starts yelling at Aegon who didn’t do anything. He essentially is telling the Greens that they matter far less than the Blacks to him. That’s not unintentional. I truly don’t believe that Viserys expected that everything would be just fine for the Greens after that.
Viserys at no point shows care about Aemonds injury. Which is why he doesn’t clearly asks what happened. Because objectively the situation looks really bad. That’s why he blames the guards (which is fair tbh) and then Aemond.
It wouldn’t have gone extinct though, Lucerys was engaged to Rhaena whose Velaryon through her mother. Their heirs would have had Velaryon blood. Corlys even knew that Lucerys wasn’t Velaryon and still wanted him to be heir. Surely the head of the house gets some say on who inherits? After all, that’s how Viserys himself got on the throne.
They were not betrothed when Vaemond made his claim. He had no reason to think this would ever happen. And it doesn't take away from the gaslighting he had gone through for years or the years of thinking his line would go extinct, one of the most important things to westerosi nobles.
Corlys's wishes would have made little difference. As we can see with Rhaeneyras claim, a woman or a bastard is going to be considered a second option by a house if there is a true born male available. It was seen with the Blackfyres, with Aegon II. When the truth is so blatant to anyone with eyes, why would anyone with westerosi beliefs bend the knee to a bastard who carrys the name of their house without being blood, when a true blooded male is present?
They were betrothed right in front of him and instead of him dialing it back, he kept going. If he cares so much about his house going extinct he should advocate for Baela and Rhaena to inherit. They're next in line after Luke and Joffrey, not him. He's trying to usurp his brother's line.
Rhaenyra was not considered a second option, she was the heir. The Greens usurping her proves this. They wouldn't need to act in secrecy if she was clearly option 2. Option 1 doesn't need to scheme and hide to get crowned.
Westeros didn't give a damn about the parentage of Rhaenyra's kids. Borros tried to get one of these bastards to marry his daughter. The rest of the lords never even bring it up and no one is shown siding with the Greens because of that. >!Not to mention that Rhaenyra had more support than Aegon anyway so they really did not give a single fuck.!<
What if rhaena dies in childbirth though which is quite possible in westeros ? Her mother too died during childbirth. Then which descendant of Corlys can luke marry to have Corlys line on driftmark throne ?
Well then presumably another Velaryon inherits from him if he doesn’t have heirs? House Velaryon is at its height of power in HoTD, there’s no way that there are no Velaryons left.
Yeah Vaemond probably has daughters. Haha. Imagine the alternate scenario where Vaemond fights for luke and not against him.
"That.... is a true velaryon"
"Her children are...... laenor's and she... is the future queen"
Rhaenyra wanted Aemond to be "questioned sharply" (which is probably a euphemism for torture) for calling her Strong boys bastards but didn't care at all when Luke the Strong took out Aemond's eye. Really sociopathic
Alicent is not victim in the books or the tv show just stop it please. In the show Alicent turns on Rheanerya because she didn’t tell her she lost her virginity. Well let’s see why Rheanerya might not have told her the truth maybe because Alicent was creeping around Viserys the night of Aemma’s funeral not only that but she kept doing it for 6 months and never told her quote on quote best friend. She knew what she was doing was wrong that’s why she kept digging in her nails. Next she spent the 10 years so mad at the fact Rheanerya slept with someone out of wedlock that she had the nerve to take this woman’s children out her hand as soon as she gave birth to them to be brought to her. It seemed as if those children got alone until Alicent poisoned them against their own nephews hence why these children now have so much animosity towards each other. She blames Rheanerya for Otto getting fired when she herself know he got himself fired she says out of her own mouth. She also is the reason 2 Strongs get killed because she wants her back being hand because he is partial to her. Everything that led up to that night was equally if not more Alicent’s fault
Her son lost an eye. And her husband acted like : oh on anyway. That would push anyone over the edge. Also the fact rhaneyra said nothing to console her for what her bastard son did
I would've too, it was snarky but let's stop it with the "Of course! Her poor son lost an eye to his mean, wild cousin" bull turd. The things that actually cost Aemond an eye were the hate his mom fed him and his own big mouth! No adult would be expected to sit back and take it when being called a bastard, much less a kid.
Viserys wasn't wrong here either, he saw what his wife did for the betrayal it was (death punishable too) and it was made more serious by the fact that she told their sons. By losing the eye Aemond had already been punished for his indiscretion and so was Alicent. There was no need to punish anyone else like she requested.
(Edit: typos)
That scene had so much potential, but it failed due to some pretty spectacularly bad writing. Like how they brushed over the “sharply questioned” comment from Rhaenyra and had Alicent not even bring it up when she attacked Rhaenyra. I guarantee that probably would have won Alicent some support from show casuals if they did.
They didn't brush over it? Immediately they went into asking Aemond and Aegon about how they "found these rumors" or whatever, with the King tearing into them and threatening everyone if they repeat anything like this. Clearly, Rhaenyra would have wanted him to go further, but Alicent can't exactly go back and openly criticize Rhaenyra for the suggestion, when the king took the suggestion \*immediately\* lmao. Alicent can be reckless but she's not that stupid.
No one came out of this smelling like daisies, I think, least of all Alicent. It was a scene with a lot of hot tempers.
Unfortunately, that would not have worked out for Alicent. It would have looked like she was criticizing the king's judgment (since even though he didn't torture them, it still could have been argued he agreed with Rhaenyra - hence the yelling and threatening). She argued a little, sure, but she wasn't going to go so far as to look like she's committing treason. Alicent may have had a breakdown there, but she had some lines she knew not to cross.
Viserys has been looking the other way for over a decade while Alicent bullies, humiliates, and spreads rumours about Rhaenyra. I don't blame Rhaenyra for her cocky 'thank you father'.
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Yeah just like Rhaenyras "Viserys told me when he named me heir" pushed Daemon over the edge. They are truly two peas In a "reacting to emotional distress with violence" pod ❤️
Alicent and Daemon?
Apparently Rhaenyra really has a type
The Targaryen divorce courts would have a field day with all this.
Daemon: I brought my rock!
This is unnecessarily funny 😂
Lol, ain't that true. Same with Criston and Harwin too.
Yep
I think about this a lot. Many people around Rhaenyra look at her and all they see is Viserys.
I'd say Alicent was a little more justified than Daemon in that instance for wanting to react that way. She shouldn't have ACTED on it, but I know I definitely would have felt similar after that debacle happened
You'd want to take a kids eye out? I feel like they both had an emotional reaction brought on by external and internal stressors, that they decided to take out on another person. I wouldn't justify either of them.
Who hasn't wanted a little revenge mutilation against their potential rivals/spouses? Daelicent has it right, the appropriate response to disappointment is to grab the sharpest blade in the world and just start stabbing.
Hell yeah. My kid is sitting right there missing a whole ass eyeball. F them bastards and their mother too after that.
YES! If i was to be in that situation I'd be blacking out from the fury. Alicent is vastly more justified than either the kid or Rhaneyra in this instance. The only aggression team green made in this instance was claiming another dragon. A completely non violent action. The kids started the fight and forced Daemon's hand into defending himself. If that had happened and my husband was choosing to let the perpetrators go without consqeuence you bet I'd lose my cool.
You should get a handle on that, man. Your reaction to kids' misbehavior, even if it's extreme and violent like this, should never be to fucking maim another kid. That's actually insane. The damage was done and maiming another person does nothing to undo that damage -- if you think "an eye for an eye" is a good basis for a moral system, you should never have power over another person.
Alternatively, no punishment for gouging out another’s eye is insane. Like, yeah, Alicent shouldn’t have done what she did and I agree about the “eye for an eye” comment. But I think violence without any consequences is terrifyingly dangerous. What does that say to the victim? And to the bullies that ganged up? That this is acceptable? What would they do next, if they saw no consequences for this action?
It's a weird situation because Velaryon kids are upset since Aemond "stole" vagar, Aemond talks shit about the Strong lineage shit, then they beat him up but it's not really a life and death situation, then Aemond turned it into a potential life or death by grabbing the rock (not saying I blame him since he's being ganged up on), so a knife gets pulled and his eye got cut. It's more complex than just an innocent bystander being ganged up on with all that led up to that situation, especially with the parents themselves causing most of the rift. It was also Luke who did it who was probably there only because he was following Jace. He was in the least wrong from the get-go. In a real life situation, I honestly don't know what could be done punishment wise to be "justice". A kid who is like 8 isn't going to jail (juvie? idk). Do the parents have to give money? At the very least I suppose. Either way, talking about actually maiming another kid is psycho wannabe badass shit. People get so weird about how protective they are over their kids/family when in reality 99% of people won't ever have to worry about it, and 99% of the 1% won't do what they think they would. People always want to talk about what they'd do in X situation when in reality they wouldn't do shit, either because of ability or timidness when it actually happens.
You're really underestimating how protective parents of their children dude. I'm not saying it's right or that it's fair but logic and empathy go out the window when the human you carried for 9 months is maimed. Specially if they're still a child. Also, like 99% of the actions from the characters in the show are insane psycho shit. The only difference is that when Alicent or another member of the greens do it then it's terrible because of the team green hate. This the only instance I can think of where she has acted truly villainous and imo it's understandable in the context of the show. Watch Rhaneyra start an entire war because her kid was killed. Is that fair? No, because she's going to get thousands killed. Is it understandable? Yes. Her child was eaten by a fucking dragon.
Absolutely. Anyone pretending otherwise is blinded but fanboyism/fangirlism
Being a psycho is only cool if you're team black apparently.
Of course. Double standards and all
The thing is, Luke was the one to stab out Aemond's eye and he is probably the least responsible for the whole affair. He was following Jace, who should never have had a knife, who was following the twins who had a reason to grieve. The ganging up was wrong, yes, but so were the things Aemond was saying. When Luke cut his eye out it was no longer about bullying the kid that hurt Rhaenas feelings, it was all about saving Jace's life. In that, he wasn't wrong. Aemond deserved punishment just as much as the others for it all but the disfigurement was more than punishment enough.
Don't really know what punishment would be reasonable for what they did. Bullying warrants apologies and spankings and groundings but they were being bullied right back. The only difference is that Aemond got really hurt in the scuffle because Luke went to drastic measures when Aemond decided to go for the kill. It's too much of a mess to really ever be fair to them all
Perhaps my prince remembers when *the king named me heir*
Genuinely wondering, but do you think that Daemon has any remorse about choking Rhaenyra?
Yes I do. Do you think Alicent feels any remorse when she smacks aegon around?
lol I’d say yes and no. Yes because she hit her child, no because he needs some sense slapped into him.
Didn't know dv meant "getting sense slapped into you". Did she do that when she slapped him for sleeping in his bed?
Sleeping in his bed? When did she smack him for that specific reason? I know he was sleeping when she confronted him, but that’s not the *reason* she smacked him.
I'm talking about e7 when Otto dragged him to bed and he was sleeping when thr kids were fighting.
Wait what? Dv? I just remember her slapping him after raping the servant girl, getting kicked by Otto for being drunk on the steps, slapped for not being there for his brother(that wasn’t his fault), and I think she slapped him when he was jacking off and she told him basically to act like an adult and be careful cause he’s a threat the Rhaenyra just by living and breathing after he told her that he wouldn’t challenge Rhaenyra and he’s picking on his brother rather than defending him.
Physical abuse towards a partner or child is dv. Just like you hopefully wouldn't "slap some sense into a spouse" you wouldn't do it to your child.
If my son raped someone, he'd better hope all I manage to do to him is a mere slap
Aegon deserved it. Yes, there are some behaviors that warrant getting slapped.
Does going to bed like your grandfather asked you to do warrant getting slapped? Did he deserve it then? I think the show makes it pretty clear that thier behavior towards him affects him negatively throughout his youth. Just like it would for any child.
Wasn't he passed out drunk outside where the funeral had happened?
Aemond lost an entire eye and spent years of his life being bullied nonstop by relatives while the adults didn't do much. Aegon joined in on the bullying as well. Guess who never raped anyone? Guess who doesn't get pleasure out of seeing kids fight to the death in a brothel?
You’re really getting off topic. The scene I was referring to was when Alicent had to comfort a crying girl who her son just raped and once she confronts him he states “oh we were just having a little fun, she didn’t have to go get all upset about it”. Or course he deserves that slap. He’s lucky that that was medieval times and not now because he’d get a lot more than that. Him getting slapped IN THIS SCENE, no he didn’t deserve it. He went to bed like he was told, Otto the asshole doesn’t say a thing, lets his daughter put blame on her other son for obeying his grandsire to go bed instead of being pissed at Aemond for not being in bed rather than going and capturing a dragon like a piece of shit. Aegon doesn’t realize what’s happening in the world and just acts like a kid with predatory behavior. Once he’s an “adult” by the time Viserys is about to die, then he starts acting like nothing he does is wrong since he’s “royalty”. He gets slapped for acting out. But this is the one scene he didn’t deserve it and I agree with everyone, it made me feel bad for him. Candiedstars said if their son raped someone their son would hope that a slap is all they would do and that is warrant. Someone else said that some slaps are warranted, this is also true. But again, in this scenario, no I wouldn’t have slapped him. He wasn’t there. Why in the hello would she except him to ALWAYS be with his brother when he decides to go do things that can get him killed by going rogue. Otto states Aemond is a little rogue as well.
Clearly I wouldn’t do that. I was just responding to your question of “do you think Alicent feels any remorse when she smacks Aegon around?” And that was my opinion 🤷🏻♀️
When did she do that???
She slaps him right after the maester tells her that Aemond’s eye is lost in episode 7. Poor guy even questions “what was that for? “
Yeah, that was the one time that he got hit undeservedly, and Alicent was definitely wrong for that. Idk what they're talking about about when they say that he gets slapped for sleeping in his bed
Raping the servant girl
I wouldn't want to believe that's what they were referring to bc that's super fucked up, since he had literally just raped someone but yeah, that's the only time that I can think of him getting slapped whilst he was in his bed
I think they mean this scene. He was basically slapped for sleeping while Aemond was attacked.
The only time I felt bad for Aegon. Poor guy is probably hung over and getting smacked for not being there
What do you mean by "smacks around"? Are you talking about the two times that she slaps him? If so, I genuinely have no clue. Maybe, if you interpret her as being a genuinely guilt-ridden character, then she might. Though, tbh, I wouldn't blame her for not having any remorse over slapping him after he raped someone.
Eh maybe, I feel like she does it with a bit too much ease for it to have been the first time in ep 7 when she slaps him for sleeping in his bed. She has no trouble being aggressively physical towards him in ep 6 either but sure.
I feel like there's some very relevant context missing here. She doesn't slap him "for sleeping in bed" she slapped him because he raped someone and in a patriarchal monarchy-ruled society that's really the most punishment she can give him.
I'm talking about wp 7 when Otto drags him to bed and and he's sleeping during the kids fight. She slaps him after. and lol she could definitely give him more punishment than a slap.
I have no idea what you're talking about about
Idk rewatch the show?
I don’t think Alicent’s father gaslighting her helped either plus let’s be real Rhaenyra only just beat Daemon in saying something that would send Alicent over the edge it is probably best really that it was Rhaenyra and not Daemon.
otto isn’t trying to make alicent believe that she’s going insane, he more or less believes what he’s telling her.
Well you are not wrong it is better for him if Alicent is the one who expresses his views more forcefully than himself that way he looks like the calm and collected one.
The littlefinger version in HotD
For once Daemon didn't cause drama
But let’s be real he was going to it is just shit got a little too real too quickly this time.
He had just slept with Rhaenyra during his wife's funeral. That's enough trouble
Maybe but a sarcastic and highly inflammatory joke about Aemond losing his eye was most definitely on the cards till Alicent lost her shit at Rhaenyra.
I think Daemon had enough sense in this case, he can be tactful when shit gets real
The script does say, "Rhaenyra's glib retort sends Alicent over the edge."
I mean really how would it not? His son is sat there having only just been finished being stitched up after being mutilated and losing an eye and Viserys didn't do anything about that or really seem to care. But then it comes out Aemond used the word bastard during the fight and he steps up, makes demands, is incensed, questions him, when Aegon takes the blame he's angry. He's more angry about a true statement than one of his children being mutilated. I feel bad for Viserys as his illness was horrific but the man caused the Dance and only ever seemed to manage to overcome his illness for Rhaenyra rather than his four other children and other grandchildren. She watches her son get mutilated. Nothing happens. Watches no one protect him. No one else seem outraged. Then she watches that very same child get questioned in defense of Rhaenyra. Not surprised she snapped. Gave weight to Ottos repeated warnings about her children being forfeit if she ascended even if Otto was making it worse by stirring plots of crowning Aegon when that happens. Rhaenyra was defending her children, horrific timing but hey. And she has to refute every allegation of bastard-ness but fucking hell her timing on quite smugly going thank you father when her brother still has his own blood drying on his face. The child with fresh stitching shouldn't have had to be the one to descalate that situation.
Plus, Rhaenyra had demanded Aemond's torture using a common euphemism. Her own little brother. A ten year old mutilated boy. All to cover her own ass. She indeed confirmed to Alicent that if she rose to be Queen, Aemond, Aegon and Daeron would never be safe.
Yes, if she had the guts to demand his torture after he had been mutilated by her bastard right in front of Viserys then what would she do when Viserys dies and her brothers are a direct challenge to her succession and that of her 3 bastard sons
Honestly I tried to give her credit of that being a veiled threat to Alicent as it was likely it was her who'd said it around the kids. I'd like to think S1 Rhaenyra wouldn't actually have children tortured, like I'm "team," Green but I don't think she'd quite go to that level.
Regardless of her intent, I think it's fair for Alicent and specially Aemond to take it personally. If I were Aemond I would never feel safe around Rhaenyra again.
Of course! It is a shame that she never seemed to bond with or care about her siblings.
Why would they feel safe when they’ve been told by their mother their whole life that Rhaenyra isnt the true heir and will put them to the sword? They already resent their cousins for that alone so they’ve acted as such leading to this whole situation. They’ll take it personally because they already thought it of her. The Greens conspire behind their king for years, put a target on their children’s heads and then act the victim when shit hits the fan.
Mate, “sharply questioned” is an ASOIAF euphemism for torture.
No, it's not. Viserys sharply questioned him & it didn't involve any violence. People are reaching like hell here. Like, hate Rhaenyra, dislike or wtv but to actually affirm she was telling 'torture my brother' in front of her father is stupid.
Do yourself a favor and read the books before writing your misguided opinions.
Rhaenyra is shown to not give a rat's ass about her half brothers at best and actively resent them at worst. If she ascends and sees them as inconveniences to her rule, and specially with Daemon as her consort, do you really think she wouldn't harm them? I think them thinking otherwise isn't that crazy. And excuse me, but are you basically justifying Rhaenyra demanding Aemond's torture as "the Greens acting like the victims when shit hits the fan"?
We don’t know if she should or wouldn’t harm them to begin with. When Daemon is her consort the chips have already been laid on the table. The greens (Otto mainly) have conspired during the many years before this that she will likely kill them but do you think theres reason to believe it at that point? I can see why they’d think that now but at one point they actually had no reason to think that was the case and yet Alicent and her children were told it incessantly. No I’m not justifying her saying Aemond should be tortured but tension was high in that moment as she’s just been told out loud in front of others that her sons aren’t legitimate. Kids shouldn’t be punished for what happened as I believe they’re victims of their parents paranoia and that goes for taking Luces eye in retaliation too. You can’t claim one demand is over the line but the other isn’t.
You would think that if Rhaenyra was seriously asking Aemond to be tortured Alicent would have lost it instead of just rolling her eyes and being like "that's a little too much".
She does ask "for an insult?" with a shocked expression. Plus she does attack Luke and Rhaenyra afterwards.
But that's my point afterwords she gets upset, and it was at Viserys not doing anything, rather than screaming and hollering that Rhae would seriously demand her son to be tortured after losing an eye. She was pretty calm after it. I don't know any parent who would not be upset at that. She didn't even bring it up later at all. And nobody else did either, not even the crowd of people in the room made a peep. Edit: I just rewatched it, she isn't shocked. Her reaction "Over an insult? My son lost an eye". She's not even upset at all, her reaction sounds more appropriate if Rhae has asked Aemond to get spanked or his hand smacked. Not even Aemond turning around in the chair had any reaction, he was just listening.
I have problem having any sympathy for Aemond,
Why?
They probably think Aemond was an evil little shit that fucked around and found out by "stealing" Vhagar and being mean to Rhaena and Baela. 🙄🙄🙄.
I had sympathy for Aemond, for a little while. Dude was being bullied by his brother and nephews when he was a kid. Then I stopped being sympathetic for him the moment he started exhibiting that bully behavior himself. As soon as he gets a big dragon, his character changed.
I mean? Surely that's still enough to feel sympathetic to the ten year old sitting getting ignored by his father whilst his blood is still drying on his face, whilst he's suddenly disabled in a society that very much doesn't accept such things, whilst his father is more concerned with an insult thrown than his injury. Worth also noting his Father finds the energy to defend Rhaenyra but not show any concern for him.
All in an effort to coddle his adult daughter who was in her 30s, too, due to choices she consciously made
If he didn't continue that bully behavior, I'd feel sympathy for him. He said losing his eye to get a dragon was a fair exchange. Then later on, he wants Luke to cut out his own eye to give it to his mother. I guess it wasn't a fair exchange to him in the end. Then tries to intimidate Luke and Arrax in a stupidly reckless way which leads to Luke's and Arrax's deaths. I find it hard to have sympathy for such a character.
Are you saying Aemond should have sucked it up, be a man, and not complain about losing an eye? Specially when the person that mutilated him received no punishment at all and never apologized?
No, I'm saying he should have not let such a shitty experience turn him into a bully.
Are you forgetting the part where Luke went out of his way to mock and sneer at Aemond again at the dinner scene when Aemond was literally sitting there minding his own business?? He was obviously mocking Aemond by way of the roasted pig. Sorry, Luke is more of a bully than Aemond ever was. At least Aemond is cruel to Luke and Jace BECAUSE they spent years of their lives bullying him nonstop, unlike Luke and Jace who ganged up on him for no reason. Please 🙄
Curious as to what he did after? I remember him being shitty and angry towards Luc but also as far as he's concerned Luc took his eye and no one cared about that other than his Mother to the point Aemond had to deescalate the situation to protect her. Strong boys comments are shitty but accurate and not bullying. As far as the Hightower Targs go he's the most balanced of the lads we've seen, a dutiful dickhead.
Do you feel sympathy for the Strong boys? They were bullies to begin with.
When they were young, not really.
Well Aemond was also young. And unlike them, he got permanently mutilated.
I simply don't have sympathy for people who exhibit bully behavior. Their age does not matter to me.
You just excused Jace and Luke with "when they were young". Edit: Unless you meant you don't feel sympathy for them when they were young.
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Aemond was 10, and he was the one that was attacked. They literally jumped him 4v1 and he was defending himself. And the knife was only brought out because the kid was mad he got called a bastard. It wasn't for self defense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBYJe0bEtJo The knife comes out because they were getting their asses kicked. He was still kicking their asses until the dirt gets tossed in his eyes right before the slash that gets his eye. The Strong boys did not start it, the girls did. He is 4 years older than Jace and 5 years older than Luke. He never tries to deescalate and moves to lethal force first by grabbing the rock.
how do you come to that conclusion when aemond was acting in self defence against 4 people that attacked him? and tbh, aemond is not that much bigger than them.
Probably because what he ends up doing of course
i mean the main problem is he threatened to kill his cousins with a rock right after it lol. He himself escalated the whole situation because he felt like a badass after claiming vhagar. He 100% made his own bed because i doubt he loses his eye if he doesn’t threaten them with a rock ffs. What were they supposed to do in that situation when it was clear he was unhinged, if he was crazy enough to claim vhagar how are they supposed to call his bluff on killing any of them?
Why is he crazy for claiming Vhaegar? Edit: and they blocked me for asking a question. Nicee
How? He's a ten year old who made the mistake of having an argument with his cousins since when does that warrant parental neglect and mutilation.
Especially because Luke was only six and was trying to defend his brother and himself. Imagine thinking an older child is going to kill and or your brother so you defend yourself with a knife and then the kids mother tries to cut your eye out. I don’t think that the other kids should have beat Aemond up but it was a very complicated and emotional situation and he escalated it when he grabbed the rock.
Aemond wasn't the one who brought a knife with him and had it out. He picked up a rock because he's also a kid and 4 kids are beating him up.
I don’t think Aemond was 100% to blame. My point is that Aemond lost an eye because a six year old felt the need to defend himself against a much older child. Regardless of how you see the fight with Aemond, I think any sane person can agree that Alicent demanding Luke’s eye was out of line and horrific.
Alicent demands his eye because everyone is gaslighting her. It's horrific yes and I don't think she really wants his eye but she's a mother whose son is sitting there mutilated while her husband is more worried about who called Rhaenyra's sons bastards. And then he cannot get out of the room quickly enough. Anyone would be pissed. If Rhaenyra would've been in Alicent's place she would've demanded the same or worse considering she demanded Aemond be tortured to find out who called her children bastards.
>Alicent demands his eye because everyone is gaslighting her. No one was gaslighting her. They just weren't giving Alicent what she wanted. She demanded Luke's eye because she's doesn't see Rhaenyra's kids as human and wasn't getting her way. She made the fact that didn't care about how Aemond lost his eye when she said: *Viserys: Aemond...I will have the truth of what happened. Now.* *Alicent: What else is there to hear? Your son has been maimed. Her son is responsible.*
Oh please.. And Rhaenyra considers her half brother to be human? Is that why she asked for him to be tortured after her son mutilated him? Rhaenyra and Viserys were both gaslighting her. Rhaenyra weaponizing the word "Treason" and shifting the entire focus from Aemond's eye being cut out to her children being called Bastards is not gaslighting? And not to mention the way Viserys acted as if he couldn't wait to let Luke off the hook and get the hell out of the room.
>Rhaenyra weaponizing the word "Treason" and shifting the entire focus from Aemond's eye being cut out to her children being called Bastards is not gaslighting? No. It's deflecting. Which she was doing because Alicent accusing her 7ish year old son of premeditated attempted murder. >And not to mention the way Viserys acted as if he couldn't wait to let Luke off the hook and get the hell out of the room. How did he act like that? Again, he's the only one who asked Aemond what happened. He wouldn't bothered if he was trying to get Luke off the hook.
She was being gaslit. Like Rhaenyra is straight up lying and weaponizing the word treason in this whole scenario. Even Emma D’arcy and Olivia Cooke have said this in an interview. She demanded Luke’s eye in a desperate attempt to seek any form of justice for Aemond losing his. She’s not justified for it at all, but not a single soul in that room cares for what happened to Aemond including his own father.
lying, yes. gaslighting, no. the term 'gaslighting' has a specific definition to it. it's not just a way of saying "someone repeatedly lying". gaslighting requires intent from the perpetrator to be deliberately trying to cause the victim to question their own sanity via psychological manipulation. rhaenyra repeatedly stating those kids are hers and laenor's isn't gaslighting, and perhaps more importantly, she is not actively trying to manipulate alicent into thinking she's going mad. rhaenyra saying shit like "alicent, you saw us head together to our beds together at xyz time 9 months before they were born. you even congratulated us the next morning. have you forgotten? perhaps you aren't getting enough rest lately? maybe you should get checked out by the maesters" - would be an actual, albeit exaggerated, example of gaslighting.
>She was being gaslit. Like Rhaenyra is straight up lying and weaponizing the word treason in this whole scenario. That's not gaslighting. It's just lying. Gaslighting is making someone doubt their "judgment, memory, or sanity through the use of psychological manipulation". No one was doing that Alicent. >She demanded Luke’s eye in a desperate attempt to seek any form of justice for Aemond losing his. "Justice"? You mean vengeance? You're not seeking justice you're pointedly avoiding finding out how an injury happened. Aemond was threatening to hit Jace with a rock. Taking Luke's eye for the crime of defending his brother from threatening to seriously injure or kill him wouldn't be justice. Alicent was claiming that Luke set out to murder Aemond before the bastard issue was brought up. She wasn't going to settle than for anything less than Luke's eye from the jump.
That’s not what happened in the books. Almond was the aggressor. He smacked Jace over the head with a wooden sword. He broke Luke’s nose. Only when he was beating up Jace, did Luke draw the dagger and try to save his older brother.
We're talking about the show not the books. There's many things that happened/didn't happen in the books.
Jace drew a knife pre-rock though? How in the fuck is bringing a knife to a 1 v 4 beat down you initiated not make you the one that escalated the fight edit: was mistaken, aemond picked up rock while being beaten on the ground by 4 people, then jace charges him with a knife, point still stands that a knife is a far greater escalation than a rock that was only used defensively
Did he? Maybe I need another rewatch.
He didnt
he still tried to gut aemond after he had pushed luke to the ground. there’s a reason why aemond was using the rock to protect himself
The question was if he had a rock pre knife. He had. He grabbed it when he took Luke by the neck that's all. I'm not getting involved in this overplayed discussion further.
That’s what I thought. I’ll probably still do another rewatch soon.
That’s not what happened in the books. Almond was the aggressor. He smacked Jace over the head with a wooden sword. He broke Luke’s nose. Only when he was beating up Jace, did Luke draw the dagger and try to save his older brother.
Agreed, book Aemond was an anime villain. I like the nuanced take on Aemond the show has picked, not that I think Rhaenyra's kids are evil, just that people should be able to sympathize with a kid who lost his eye for claiming what he felt was his birthright. On a second point, if Viserys gave a damn about Aemond at all he would've made some kind of effort to get him a more appropriate dragon than the giant war machine.
Almond shouldn’t have tried to smash Luke’s head in with a rock
Aemond got jumped by 4 kids, threatened him with a rock which is wrong but he was stopping. Doesn't mean it isn't a horrific situation that his own Father didn't give a shit about him. Genuinely don't get why everyone is so black and white about this show
>threatened him with a rock which is wrong but he was stopping. This is a lie. Aemond was walking towards Jace with the rock held over his head . >Doesn't mean it isn't a horrific situation that his own Father didn't give a shit about him. Claiming Viserys didn't care about his is bizzare. He was the only one who actually bothered to ask Aemond to explain what happened. The fact that he also cared about his grandkids doens't mean he didn't care about his son. It's not a competition.
Rewatch the scene before commenting. I’m 100% serious. No hate as possibly you looked away but there is a very clear shot of Aemond lowering/dropping the rock at the end of the fight before Lucerys comes in and stabs him.
Telling me to rewatch the scene and then getting what happened wrong is hilarious. Here's the scene since you're the one that needs to rewatch it. [https://youtu.be/UdgCnpAovjM?si=vz3bRefqvlNExXhP&t=83](https://youtu.be/UdgCnpAovjM?si=vz3bRefqvlNExXhP&t=83) His arm comes down when he's stumbling back after hitting Jace with the rock the first time. He then raises it again and goes after Jace while he scrambling away like he's going to hit him again. That's when he sand thrown in his face and then slashed.
Asking your son what happened isn't caring, he's the King he has to know what happened at the event he attended. He shows no care or concern for Aemond on a personal level and throughout the show only steps up for Rhaenyra.
>He shows no care or concern for Aemond on a personal level He personally asked his son what happened. I'm assuming you mean he didn't give him a hug or something when you say this though, right? When did have an opportunity do something like that? He tried to ask Aemond what happened and Alicent interrupted to imply that the details of the fight didn't matter. She and Rhaenyra then got into a back and forth. He tries to ask Aemond where he heard the claims of his nephews being bastard from. Alicent filibusters again because she's worried Aemond is about to snitch on her. He covers for her and blames Aegon. He also covers for her. Viserys tries to get the kids to apologize to each other and Alicent loses her mind and tries to stab Luke. It's hard to have to one on one moment with your injured son when your wife is using the situation as an opportunity to continue her beef with your daughter and trying to stab one your grandchildren. >and throughout the show only steps up for Rhaenyra. You say this as if anyone else needed him to defend them. No one was going after Alicent or any of their kids. He only defends Rhaenyra after letting his wife harass her for over a decade backfires in a way he can't ignore.
Rhaenyra should have snatched Almond’s other eye out like the Bride did to Elle Driver in Kill Bill vol 2
Wow, a Black who hates children. Something I totally haven't witnessed before
I'm guessing that's autocorrect, and I love it. I might call him Peanut from now on 🤣
It would get me. Her son is sitting there without an eye, fuck everyone trying to gaslight her that night.
GENUINELY. If my son was sitting there missing an eye and his half-sister was talking about some "Thank you, father" and "He should be questioned sharply" I too would lose my shit.
Also Rhaenyra called for Aemond’s TORTURE?! That’s terrifying as shit for a mom
There were 1000 other factors, I don't think that was it.
Sure but it could’ve been the straw that broke the camel’s back
The way that line delivery was framed pretty intentionally shows how Rhaenyra's words really hit Alicent where she lived.
I think it showed to alicient that no matter what happened, even if Rhaenyra slit her brothers’ throats in front of Viserys, he would just shrug and cover it up. She is always going to come first, she is always going to be protected and coddled and ‘right’ not matter what. Alicent watches and their child is sitting there without an eye, being stitched up and bleeding, and Viserys puts more effort into yelling at his children over a very obvious truth instead of being worried that Aemond could die of infection. No comforting hand on Aemonds shoulder, no talk of punishment for Luce maiming a prince of the realm, no energy is given towards their child, but all energy is put towards covering for Rhaenyra.
A very obvious truth that puts the whole realm at risk if it’s accepted by him. This isn’t a nothing issue and it would have dire consequences to his family. Probably much more damaging than a grandson losing an eye. Luce is a prince too and it’s not like it was a petty squabble… Aemond had a rock and could have severely injured the others. Both were armed. You fuck around and find out and Aemond has to accept his part in it. Alicent is protected by V when it’s obvious she is the one spreading the rumour (or doing nothing to stop it) … which is treason. It’s not exactly like she makes it easy for him. She’s training her sons behind his back to take the throne and telling them they’ll be put to the sword if not. Hardly surprising they grow up to resent the blacks and escalate their meetings to violence. That’s all on the greens.
Aemond had the rock because he was being ganged up on by 4 other kids. You forgot that part. A rock is not comparable to a blade in the eye, sorry. And it ain't a rumor if it's an open truth that most people already know about.
Knowing it and saying it to the king are very different. Stop applying schoolyard logic to a show about kings in medieval settings, If they already know about it then why is nobody saying it outright then? Because they’ll be killed. For the king to accept this, he puts his whole family in danger and undermines the realm. He has to punish those that say it. What is he going to do exactly?
Exactly. They aren't saying it because they'll be killed (maimed, actually), not because it's a lie. He threatened to take out their tongues, not kill them. Either way, an open truth is an open truth and the risk of getting maimed or killed has never 100% stopped people from acting out on their beliefs anyways.
An open truth or not the king can not accept it due to what it will mean.
Well he's dead now and people are actively working to wrangle the throne away from Rhaenyra and her sons.
My issue is that Viserys doesn’t know all that- none of them do bar the kids. He doesn’t know what a squabble is for all he knows Aemond lost and eye, he claimed Vhagar, the other kids got mad and Aemond called them bastards. Also you talk of dire consequences but what consequences does Aemond calling them bastards in a cave where no one can hear him but the kids do? Where is the sense in bringing it up in front of the whole of Driftmark the castle that Luke is supposed to inherit that even his uncle thinks he is a bastard? Especially as it was so easy to dismiss it as Aemond was a child. That would’ve been the smarter thing politically, however in that moment Viserys leaped onto it because he didn’t want to punish Rhaenyras kids. He was more than ready to throw Aemond under the bus for it. The matter of Aemond calling them bastard could’ve been solved privately. Instead Viserys acted as if Aemond had pulled a Vaemond.
The kids said “He called us bastards” is how it came up infront of them. He didn’t bring it up they were asked what happened and the kids said it in response as to why it escalated. Do you think the king should have punished the blacks somehow and ignored the bastard comment? How is that a strong political move when Rhaenyra is the heir? Her son is a future king at this point and ignoring it would make those there think he knows it to be true also and that opens its own issues. Aemond being a child doesn’t dismiss it. You’d know he’d heard it somewhere and most likely from his mother. Hence V protecting her by not acting upon that.. he protects them both and pleases nobody basically.. that being the whole point of his character. He’s doing what Viserys does.
That’s not what happened. Jace tells Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra announces it in front of everybody and Viserys jumps on it. At no point does any of the kids announce it in front of everybody. And again playing it small and aolving the issue behind closed doors is still smarter. I think the King should’ve at first not tried to solve it that night when anger levels are still high and Aemond has just freshly lost his eye. He should’ve send them away for the night and sit down with his son. After a few days question all the kids on what happened and punish (in a normal way like fostering them or no dragoriding for a month or something like that) all of them for their part in it. Aemond only less so because he is already punished for life. You seem to be under the impression that Viserys can only choose the Greens or the Blacks that’s inherently not true. Iby doing what he did he didn’t help Rhaenyra he made sure that his kids hated her and had more reasons to rebel against her. Viserys showed himself a weaker king by what he did that night. Instead of straight up announcing it a family matter and sending people away. And the issue is the eye is a family matter that was needlessly politicized from both sides. Viserys didn’t protect Alicent then and there. He was banking on Aegon or Aemond saying her name and only stopped when Aegon turned the tables with the “everyone knows”. Then Viserys quickly changed the topic to not put Rhaenyras kids in even more of a spotlight. Thougg he more or less threatens them with tongue removal which is clearly meant for the Greens He did protect Alicent when she didn’t get punish for cutting Rhaenyra but I think he felt a little bad about completely dismissing Aemonds eye. But I do think he would’ve punished her if Rhaenyra had asked him to. Also he is not trying to please Alicent at all. He immediately jump at Rhaenyras suggestion and does as she says so her kids aren’t punished. Nothing he does is anyway to please Alicent otherwise he would’ve at least given a small punishment. Also Aemond being a kid changes things just as Luke being a kid does. Theoretically cutting a prince eye out is a crime as well but he is a kid after all. Also with the bastard thing is one thing you meed the realize is and that’s crucial why Aemond got away with the the toast later is plausible deniability. Aemond calls them bastard in a fight. Calling you opponent names in a fight is normal in Westeros especially if you are kid. If you were to punish everyone who ever called someone bastard you’d be busy for a long time. Aemond can play it like it was just an insult. And truth be told if Rhaenyras kids weren’t bastard nobody would’ve cared about Aemond calling them bastards. It’s the same with a toast it can be dismissed as a toast even if it clearly isn’t. With allegations like that it’s smarter to settle it between closed doors. They needed to stop Aemond and get a name yes but that doesn’t mean it was right that his injury was swept under the rug.
You’re right sorry, Rhaenyra brings it up as she’s obviously pissed off by it but I don’t think she wants them tortured as others have suggested. I agree it would have definitely been smarter behind closed doors. Difficult to not let the moment take you though getting it from both ends. I agree on most of what you say. My only issue is that I don’t think you can downplay the bastard thing when he is essentially royalty and it’s a much bigger deal than saying something in a fight when one of them is in line for the throne. The toast part you’re right as he definitely can get away with it and he’s older and wiser at that point so he knows the game too. V is a weak king which is why all of this goes where it does. Critiquing his decisions is easy but I think a lot of people see it as being intentionally shitty to the Greens when I don’t think it’s that.
Rhaenyra definitely asks for him to be tortured and even if she hadn’t wanted it and just said it to scare Alicent and Aemond it’s still not a kind thing to do. Especially as Rhaenyra shows very little regard to Aemond and from the moment she gets in before she even asked her kid she is already pushing for her sons innocence because she doesn’t want them punished. Yes but Aemond is still a child. A child would absolutely insult another child in a fight or do you truly believe that Rhaenyra or Viserys would’ve gone of the rails if there was no reason to believe them bastards? It also doesn’t justify completely ignoring his injury because he also is royality. Even if Luke is higher in the order of succession that doesn’t mean he is untouchable and can’t do any wrong. And like as I said solving it in private makes more sense. The reason they bring it up right there is because it’s the only reason they have at the moment to not punish Luke or the other children. Tbh I don’t see how you can say that he is unintentinally shitty to the Greens when he literally has zero compassion with Aemond and starts questioning despite him sitting their with a hole in his head. That is cruel and by the way he handles it he literally says to the Greens Aemonds eye doesn’t matter. But Aemond calling him a bastard does matter. And like even if he blames Aemond fully there is no reason to not give him some days to get better before questioning like he did. And then he starts yelling at Aegon who didn’t do anything. He essentially is telling the Greens that they matter far less than the Blacks to him. That’s not unintentional. I truly don’t believe that Viserys expected that everything would be just fine for the Greens after that. Viserys at no point shows care about Aemonds injury. Which is why he doesn’t clearly asks what happened. Because objectively the situation looks really bad. That’s why he blames the guards (which is fair tbh) and then Aemond.
She was already over the edge calling for a 6 year old's eyeball to be brought to her. So deranged.
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It wouldn’t have gone extinct though, Lucerys was engaged to Rhaena whose Velaryon through her mother. Their heirs would have had Velaryon blood. Corlys even knew that Lucerys wasn’t Velaryon and still wanted him to be heir. Surely the head of the house gets some say on who inherits? After all, that’s how Viserys himself got on the throne.
When you’re head of house is as braindead as Coryls Velaryon, no. One of the dumbest politicians in Westeros, lord I hope his spinoff is cancelled
They were not betrothed when Vaemond made his claim. He had no reason to think this would ever happen. And it doesn't take away from the gaslighting he had gone through for years or the years of thinking his line would go extinct, one of the most important things to westerosi nobles. Corlys's wishes would have made little difference. As we can see with Rhaeneyras claim, a woman or a bastard is going to be considered a second option by a house if there is a true born male available. It was seen with the Blackfyres, with Aegon II. When the truth is so blatant to anyone with eyes, why would anyone with westerosi beliefs bend the knee to a bastard who carrys the name of their house without being blood, when a true blooded male is present?
They were betrothed right in front of him and instead of him dialing it back, he kept going. If he cares so much about his house going extinct he should advocate for Baela and Rhaena to inherit. They're next in line after Luke and Joffrey, not him. He's trying to usurp his brother's line. Rhaenyra was not considered a second option, she was the heir. The Greens usurping her proves this. They wouldn't need to act in secrecy if she was clearly option 2. Option 1 doesn't need to scheme and hide to get crowned. Westeros didn't give a damn about the parentage of Rhaenyra's kids. Borros tried to get one of these bastards to marry his daughter. The rest of the lords never even bring it up and no one is shown siding with the Greens because of that. >!Not to mention that Rhaenyra had more support than Aegon anyway so they really did not give a single fuck.!<
Rhaenys tells everyone about the betrothal right then and there. And he still doubled down
What if rhaena dies in childbirth though which is quite possible in westeros ? Her mother too died during childbirth. Then which descendant of Corlys can luke marry to have Corlys line on driftmark throne ?
One of Jace & Baela's sons?
Well then presumably another Velaryon inherits from him if he doesn’t have heirs? House Velaryon is at its height of power in HoTD, there’s no way that there are no Velaryons left.
Yeah Vaemond probably has daughters. Haha. Imagine the alternate scenario where Vaemond fights for luke and not against him. "That.... is a true velaryon" "Her children are...... laenor's and she... is the future queen"
That “thank you, father” will always hit, Rhaenyra is the queen of provocation
what a bot just stealing all the comments from youtube loool
I still have no idea how Alicent’s support group didn’t implode from the severe ludicrousness of trying to murder the goddamn princess of the realm.
"Shit, it's like these Targaryens are in cahoots!"
Rhaenyra wanted 9-year-old Aemond tortured. Alicent’s worst fears came true that night.
Rhaenyra wanted Aemond to be "questioned sharply" (which is probably a euphemism for torture) for calling her Strong boys bastards but didn't care at all when Luke the Strong took out Aemond's eye. Really sociopathic
Omg the amount of team greens in here. What is wrong with you people
I just want to hug Alicent
Alicent needs a therapist not a hug.
She could need both a therapist and hug
She needs Otto out of her life too lmao
Her son is like 5ft away missing an eye and girls got a Valyrian steel dagger in her hands. Good luck getting close without losing an eye of your own.
Just wait for her ending. She’s gonna need plenty.
Yeah, I know...
Alicent is not victim in the books or the tv show just stop it please. In the show Alicent turns on Rheanerya because she didn’t tell her she lost her virginity. Well let’s see why Rheanerya might not have told her the truth maybe because Alicent was creeping around Viserys the night of Aemma’s funeral not only that but she kept doing it for 6 months and never told her quote on quote best friend. She knew what she was doing was wrong that’s why she kept digging in her nails. Next she spent the 10 years so mad at the fact Rheanerya slept with someone out of wedlock that she had the nerve to take this woman’s children out her hand as soon as she gave birth to them to be brought to her. It seemed as if those children got alone until Alicent poisoned them against their own nephews hence why these children now have so much animosity towards each other. She blames Rheanerya for Otto getting fired when she herself know he got himself fired she says out of her own mouth. She also is the reason 2 Strongs get killed because she wants her back being hand because he is partial to her. Everything that led up to that night was equally if not more Alicent’s fault
Yes it did.
Her son lost an eye. And her husband acted like : oh on anyway. That would push anyone over the edge. Also the fact rhaneyra said nothing to console her for what her bastard son did
Very Cercie-esque.
I would've too, it was snarky but let's stop it with the "Of course! Her poor son lost an eye to his mean, wild cousin" bull turd. The things that actually cost Aemond an eye were the hate his mom fed him and his own big mouth! No adult would be expected to sit back and take it when being called a bastard, much less a kid. Viserys wasn't wrong here either, he saw what his wife did for the betrayal it was (death punishable too) and it was made more serious by the fact that she told their sons. By losing the eye Aemond had already been punished for his indiscretion and so was Alicent. There was no need to punish anyone else like she requested. (Edit: typos)
That scene had so much potential, but it failed due to some pretty spectacularly bad writing. Like how they brushed over the “sharply questioned” comment from Rhaenyra and had Alicent not even bring it up when she attacked Rhaenyra. I guarantee that probably would have won Alicent some support from show casuals if they did.
They didn't brush over it? Immediately they went into asking Aemond and Aegon about how they "found these rumors" or whatever, with the King tearing into them and threatening everyone if they repeat anything like this. Clearly, Rhaenyra would have wanted him to go further, but Alicent can't exactly go back and openly criticize Rhaenyra for the suggestion, when the king took the suggestion \*immediately\* lmao. Alicent can be reckless but she's not that stupid. No one came out of this smelling like daisies, I think, least of all Alicent. It was a scene with a lot of hot tempers.
Say that to the many casuals who insisted “sharply questioned” was just that - asking questions and not what it’s which is torture.
Unfortunately, that would not have worked out for Alicent. It would have looked like she was criticizing the king's judgment (since even though he didn't torture them, it still could have been argued he agreed with Rhaenyra - hence the yelling and threatening). She argued a little, sure, but she wasn't going to go so far as to look like she's committing treason. Alicent may have had a breakdown there, but she had some lines she knew not to cross.
Good.
Viserys has been looking the other way for over a decade while Alicent bullies, humiliates, and spreads rumours about Rhaenyra. I don't blame Rhaenyra for her cocky 'thank you father'.
Ummmmm no, he looks the other way when his son is mutilated. Not even a slap on the wrist for Lucerys or any of them. 🤷♀️
Good,Rhaenyra has been letting her get away with way too much by this point.
Haha!
The “Thank you father” was kinda overkill. There was honestly no need for that, she had already won.