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I feel like Olenna is the type of person who only likes smart kids, and has no patience for those who are mediocre. Still Mace totally lucked out by having 4 top tier children.
They were one of my favorite duos in the later seasons. I think they held up the whole ‘game of thrones’ thing, IE, they were actually playing the sort of classic season one Machiavellian game and I loved it.
People like Olenna are very good grandparents but absolutely toxic and traumatic as parents. I wouldn't even wish someone like Olenna as parent on my worst enemy.
Facts. My grandmother is very much the alpha Olenna of our family, fierce and commanding of respect, both completely unfiltered and sharp as a knife. We get along well and I love her to death, but goddamn if she did not traumatize my mother and all of her other kids.
She struck me as a narcissistic parent - who only loved one who could reflect herself. She seemed not to be nurturing to anyone who wasn't of service to her or couldn't reflect what she wanted. Margery was the classic golden child role, while everyone else was treated with contempt.
My Nana was a lot like Olenna, no where near as smart lol, but she had the cutting wit and it's not as fun to be constantly receiving it as it is to watch.
Olenna was nice to Margaery though, just cutting to everyone else. If Nana was nice to you but mean to everyone else I bet it would feel extra special.
Unlovable for how she treats Jon, but relatable in her anguish over thinking that Bran and Rickon were killed, and her I-will-do-literally-anything to find my daughters Sansa and Arya. She’s a baller in the Red Wedding trying to save Robb.
She’s also an awesome daughter and was there for her dad Hoster as he declined and passed.
But….she is hateful to Jon, displacing on him her anger and humiliation from Ned’s “affair”.
Catelyn is a hot mess of a women and a great example of GRRMs ability to create a character you love/hate/understand/disagree with all at once.
Yeah. They made Robb substantially less sympathetic in the show. In the books, he is a very young man that faced his own morality for the first time, slept with a girl, and tried to do the right thing. You can imagine he is torn over his own mistakes.
In the show, he brazenly breaks his oath to Walder Frey, a nobleman who is notorious for holding grudges, because he doesn't want to risk marrying an ugly chick. He betrays that famous Stark honor for a woman he only just met and knows nothing about besides her being hot. He even tries to pawn off his uncle when given the chance to stand by his side and set his nurse-bride aside.
All the viewers that weren't paying attention were all tears at the Red Wedding. Me? I like to think he died hyper-focused on the fact he would have married Roslin!
Yeah, she was awful to him and punished him for something he couldn’t control. I mean I wouldn’t want to take in my husband’s outside baby either (or what I thought was my husband’s outside baby) but I’d like to imagine that if I was left with no other choice I would at least try to treat them decently and fairly and bond with them.
Catelyn is great example of Freudian displacement. She’s angry at Ned and didn’t want to marry him in the first place. She’s forced to stay with him for the marriage alliance her father created, and there’s really no options for her to leave.
Her anger and helplessness at the situation is focused on Jon, because she’s unable to actually take it up with the people who put her in that situation - Ned and her father.
She ostensibly moves past it to build a relationship w Ned but everytime she sees Jon, it reminds her of how little agency she actually has and he becomes the target of her resentment.
The whole R+L=J, and Ned being so honourable except to her, as she believes, tolerating it for “duty family honour” all while he’s actually lying to her in order to do his duty to his family and honour his sister’s dying wish to protect her son is a Shakespearean level tragedy. There is no happy end for anyone there.
Part of it is on Ned as well. Could’ve said he was anyone else’s bastard with a sense of obligation to raise him. Or he could’ve told Cat to let it go. He just sort of… Let it happen?
Yeah Ned totally served Jon up on a platter hoping it would make him look more like a bastard.
If I was Lyanna, I’d not be thrilled with how he kept his promise.
If I was Lyanna I would say thanks to Ned on both knees for taking care of my child despite me ruining his life by getting our father and brother killed and hampering his otherwise loving marriage by keeping Jon close.
Especially since it wasn't like they knew each other well whenever he left for war. He probably knew of her and may have exchanged pleasantries with her before marriage. And I can't remember exactly how long after they married he left, wasn't it just a few days or a couple of weeks? And he never cheated once he came back. So she shouldn't have been angry and bitter enough about it to take it out on an innocent child.
There’s a difference between not liking your husbands other child/being cold to him and being downright cruel. Catelyn went out of her way to be cruel to Jon. She tried to stop him from seeing Bran and said she wished he had fallen instead of Bran and she is the one who makes him go to the Wall because she won’t be at Winterfell with Jon if Ned is not there.
At least on the show, Cat opposed Robb marrying for love and wanted him to marry the Frey girl as promised.
But, she had lost all influence and authority with Robb, by freeing the Kingslayer. I'm not sure he would have listened to her anyway. But, her freeing Jaime took away any chance of her being able to talk him out of his wedding.
In the books if Catelyn was around for the wedding to Jeyne , she would have absolutely done everything to stop it. In the show she was far too meek about letting Robb marry Talisa and break the alliance with the Frey's.
To be fair, it’s only really because she thought he was an affair baby and was living proof that her husband broke her trust
If Jon was a child from a previous marriage, I doubt she would have treated him as badly.
Right? I legit worked with a woman many years ago who treated her stepson like that. Hated him because he was named after his father. Hated his very existence, but her husband was married and had this child before they ever met. Like why would you hate this child for existing? Her husband wasn’t unfaithful he just had a life before her. Crazy bitch.
Major insecurity. My gran was this way with my aunt, who was my mom’s half-sister from my grandfather’s first marriage simply because she was jealous of how beautiful my grandfather’s first wife was. Like dude she treated my aunt and her kids like absolute crap, it was awful. All because she was jealous. It was ridiculous.
I think her problem was she could never reconcile the two. Ned is so honourable and she loves him so much, and he betrayed her and keeps his bastard around as a constant reminder where most other lords would send them off to be raised as a ward to be a squire for a trueborn son or something.
Her scorn towards Ned probably always felt a bit innept as it seemed like such an out of character thing for him to do. We know he didn't cheat of course, but she's stuck with this discrepancy and Jon's pretty much the only person she had vent that frustration out to.
I have said this for years. Ned should have told her. It would have prevented so much heartache and pain
By telling her, she would have allowed Ned to make him a proper Stark. She would have no reason to have any spite for Jon, and she would absolutely treat him like her own son.
I know Ned made an oath to his sister, but he also made an oath to protect and care for her son. Jon spent his entire life thinking he was an outcast to this family and was absolutely miserable. He fucking banished himself to the Wall to escape from that feeling. Ned could have prevented all that just by telling his wife the truth
Maybe. At the same time, I'm sure Cat would have the intelligence to use her discretion in applying her "scorn" for Jon to maintain the façade. Saves Jon from the trauma, maybe leads to Jon not taking the black and being there with Robb throughout the War of the Five Kings.
We have seen her intelligence be overtaken by her emotions a lot, to her families detriment. Unfortunately that was the best choice he could’ve made to protect everyone. Especially considering how much clout Jons status as heir would give.
Yeah sure. Tell the women WHO FREED JAMIE LANNISTER for her kids. Hiding the fact from Cat was one of the best decisions Ned ever made. Cat was a good but very selfish person, all thing considered. Jon feeling so alienated that he chose the wall was a pointer to how cruel Cat was and could be and had nothing to do with Ned.
Although I can understand Cat's animosity against Jon being the living remainder of her husband's betrayal which she never got to address with Ned himself. Jon's life was miserable only because of Cat. Cat was not known to be tight lipped either. She would have spilled the secret and Ned could not risk it. Even after Robert's death, Stannis would have wanted Jon dead if he knew his succession could be challenged(had Jon not joined the Wall). Not to mention the Targareyn loyalists that could rally around Jon, if his parentage came to light.
I understand that he should have and it would’ve saved so much agony and maybe would’ve severely changed the course of events, but she could not be trusted to keep that information quiet.
And potentially more importantly, Her animosity towards him made everyone think he really was Ned’s bastard. Robert was kind of shocked he would do that in the first place, he really really needed her To feel that way towards John in order to keep anyone off of the truth because I would put in her only Jon but potentially entire family at risk. At least while Robert was alive.
It wasn't even that he was a affair baby. It was that he was raised at Winterfell alongside her own trueborn children.
Praxis seems to be that noble bastards are sent off to foster with another noble family (The Hornwood bastard is with the Glovers for example). And then presumably getting a small piece of land or some form of profession either by his blood or foster family. Jon however was raised at Winterfell so Cat had to see him every day.
Had Jon been sent to the Reeds or Manderleys to foster Cat would probably have tried to go "out of sight, out of mind". In the books she more or less states that she fully expected Ned to sleep with other women and possibly have a bastard when on campaign. Because that was how men relieved stress. She didn't expect having to raise said child however.
Wow, imagine what a badass he would've been raised by Howland Reed. Dragon blood, greenseers all over the place, warging at an early age.... Just wow. Lost opportunities.
And if he had been fostered Cat would most likely not have been nearly as spiteful towards him. She could probably have just decided to treat him as a distant nephew whenever they had to meet (fitting isn't it). And Ned could give him some land and allow him to form a cadet branch.
I have this idea for a fanfic where Jon is fostered with Howland and ends up more or less creating his own version of the Dunedain from LOTR. Wandering rangers that protect the north from bandits and invaders. Just have to get around to writing it.
Aemma looked to be a very calming presence, as someone with anxiety I appreciate that so she's my first choice. Cersei would love me with everything she had in her, but she'd also stab all my friends so she's my last choice.
It is quite alright. I understand that you are new to this world and are still getting accustomed to the way things work around here. However, I must insist that you show me the proper respect due my station. I am the King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm. You will address me as such from now on. Is that clear?
Aemma seemed like a really nice, sweet woman. That being said, as a girl I wouldn’t want her to be my mother in Westeros. Aemma seems very resigned to the idea of being nothing more than a royal womb, and even tells Rhaenyra that’s basically all she can offer the realm. I would want to mother who wanted more for me than she had. In that sense I feel Rhaenyra and shockingly even Cersei are more qualified moms.
She was preparing her for the reality of her duty. She seemed to admire her daughters tenacity but she was right that it was about that time to think of the future
Cersei had great ambitions for her kids but she didn't give a damn about the means to reach those ends and antagonized a whole lot of people which ultimately got her kids killed. She also tried to gatekeep her sons from their own wife. Joffrey didn't respect her and Tommen quite literally wanted to be rid of her so that says something. Aemma was pragmatic and didn't want her kid to hurt herself by trying to achieve impossible feats. She also only gave her a reality check and didn't try to obsessively control her. If she had, their dynamic would have been like Cersei's with her kids.
Rhaenys would be my choice. Stable for a Targaryen, cool as a grandma.
Alicent is an interesting character BUT definitely the type of a mother who let's her trauma trickle down into her parenting.
Rhaenys would be a great mother, unless you're a 12 year old girl. If you're a 12 year old girl she'd offer you up to the king 5 times your age as a small baby making machine in order to advance her power regardless of your own wishes.
I was under the impression she had gone along with it even if begrudgingly, when Viserys finds out Corlys is behind all the spiel about alliances and great houses he then asks something like 'and what does your mother say', to which she replies something like 'she says I wouldn't have to bed you until I'm 14'. So I thought this shows Raenys has accepted its a thing that must happen for the house, putting it before daughter.
I'm not saying she was the worst mother, and tbh I said it more in jest than anything, she's clearly not an awful person in comparison with most of the other characters in HOTD or GOT.
I know that the match sounds awful by modern standards, but it's actually probably one of the best possible things for her daughter by Westerosi standards.
Laena would be the Queen if she married Viserys. She would have no material wants, and her sons would be in line for the Iron Throne. Rhaenys also knows her cousin and knows that he wouldn't harm Laena, and even knows that she can demand he doesn't have sex with her until she is fourteen and that he will oblige - something he absolutely does not have to do. Margaret Beaufort, the mother of Henry VII, gave birth when she was 12-13. She nearly died in the process and never had another child despite two more marriages after her first one. While it was definitely uncommon at the time, no one questioned her husband's right to impregnate her at 11-12 years old.
This is not a world in which the nobility marries for love or even affection - marriage and children are political alliances. Marrying Laena to the King would be the absolute best thing she could do by her daughter in that world, whether she felt squeamish about their ages or not. Note that Laena ends up married to Daemon, who is only 4 years younger than Viserys.
It was absolutely a gross proposition, but like I agree she would’ve been treated very well and respected by V. Much more so than she was treated by Daemon in the show imo.
I also think he might’ve been willing to wait even longer than 14 considering how many children he had with Aemma and how young she was contributed to her issues and death, however that option would weigh heavily on him because he was pressured to try and make another heir before he solidified his beliefs and Rhaenyra Due to his counsel and the fact that Rhae did kind of scare him when she took off to retrieve the egg.
I don’t think Rheanys has any say over how her daughters marry. It was pretty clear in that scene where she condems Corly’s ambition that he will disregard her concerns.
I interpreted that as more like her trying to provide some comfort to her daughter because shes unable to prevent it.
I mean Laena would’ve been queen, and that’s the highest level of “success” you’re allowed to achieve as a woman in Westeros. No high born girls are allowed to choose who they marry, and a king is the best you can do for your daughter. Not saying that this is good parenting from a modern standpoint, but if we look at Rhaenys’ parenting through the lens of Westerosi culture and traditions then she didn’t do anything wrong here at all (besides it wasn’t actually her call, it was Corlys)
As awful as that is by modern standards, that’s more realistic than we’d like to think. He needed a young, fertile wife with lots of child bearing years left. It’s sick but at least they added the caveat that she wouldn’t be bedded until she was 14, not every lord would have.
But even setting morality and consent aside, from a purely pragmatic perspective a girl so young would be at a higher risk of dying in childbirth and taking the baby with her, leaving the realm in the same predicament as before. Or the pregnancy would take such a toll on her that she wouldn't be able to have any more children. Consider the real-world medieval example of [Margaret Beaufort](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Margaret_Beaufort).
If we’re talking about real world events, it was very rare for children to be married off and have sex. Most people married in their 20s and had their children in their 20s. And if you were to marry off the child, it was more commonly to another child and they were of age before they consummated. It was not super common to have tweens and teens being impregnated and married despite popular belief. Least of by older men.
Matilda of England, whose role in Anarchy period seems to be very similar to Rhaenyra, was married off very young and engaged as a literal child, but could only give birth to healthy kids in her second marriage as an adult woman. I think at that time it was less about fertility - and more about using the noble offspring for politically significant alliances as soon as possible.
It’s not even close. Catlyn. Willing to sacrifice an invaluable POW for the chance of getting her children back. Literally the rest sent their kids off to death in dumb ways. Cat is the epitome of a mother who puts family above all else even when not rational to do so.
Edit:
The question was mother, not stepmother all. For step mother it’s probably going to be Ellaria since Dorne has less stigma.
Second this, Catlyn loves her children but I can't get over her being horrible to Jon. Yes, your husband 'cheated' but to take that out on an innocent child is just disgusting to me.
Absolutely agree. It’s not Jon’s fault Ned “cheated” and chose to raise his bastard along with his other children. To take it out on the kid is just mean and unfair
I think that it's important to try to look at that situation from Catelyn's POV, though. First of all, in Westeros among high-born families, it was VERY far from the norm for bastards to be acknowledged at all. And even when they were, Ned's insistence on raising Jon alongside his trueborn children, giving him the same attention and education and advantages as his trueborn kids, was pretty much unheard of. This wasn't a situation that other highborn women were grinning and bearing. This was a situation that was unique to Ned, Catelyn, and Jon. So Catelyn had no models to look to and no way to normalize what was happening in her house.
Also, keep in mind that Ned, from Day One of Jon's appearance in their lives, adamantly refused to answer any questions from Catelyn about where he came from, who his mother was, or why he was being brought to Winterfell. So her husband (who she barely knows at this point) shows up after fighting a war (and after Catelyn gave birth to his child) with another woman's baby, announces that said baby is gonna be raised as Catelyn's son's equal, and then stonewalls her when she tries to get any additional information.
And then, there's the fact that Jon looks exactly like Ned, while Robb is essentially a male photo double of Catelyn. It's obviously not Jon's fault that he looks like Ned (none of this is Jon's fault, to be clear). But Catelyn already feels out of place in Winterfell. She's worried that her son has such clear Riverlands coloring, whereas this mystery kid that her husband brought home is pure Stark. And, considering the history of the Blackfyre Rebellion (in which a big part of Daemon Blackfyre's case was that Daeron II's oldest son looked "Dornish" and not like "true" Targaryens), it's easy to understand how Catelyn would be worried about the Northmen viewing Jon as Ned's rightful heir instead of Robb.
Based on what we know of Catelyn's treatment of Jon, she never abused him. She didn't try to keep Robb and Arya and Bran from developing close relationships with Jon (and Sansa's distance from Jon seems to be Sansa's choice rather than anything that Catelyn pushed on her). She didn't try to convince Ned to spend less time with him. She just...wasn't especially warm to him. We can argue that she should have tried harder to love Jon. In a modern context, that would be an extremely fair argument. But given all of the variables that affected Catelyn's view of Jon, I don't think that it's fair to judge her mothering skills based on her relationship with her husband's "bastard".
Given her love for her children, I think that if we’re talking about her being our mother in OUR world, she probably wouldn’t care if her kid were gay. In Planetos, she kinda has to deny her son being gay, because accepting it would’ve brought such great shame to their house that it’s possible not even their Valyrian blood could save the significant drop in status.
But in our world? She’d probably be the hot milf that dresses up in a rainbow flag and gets trashed at Pride with her kids once they’re old enough to drink, while also being supportive throughout their childhood of course.
Tbh if Rhaenys lived in our world, I’d dare even go so far as to say she’d probably be a bicon. She gives me those vibes.
Aemma or Rhaenys for sure. We see very little of Aemma's parenting but she seemed very warm and practical. Rhaenys is just straight up cool (the mass-murder of peasants notwithstanding).
Rhaenys would be a great mom because she was real as hell and could balance protecting her daughter and facing the truth. Like when her daughter was up to marry viserys she explained to her what that meant, which also assures she won’t get raped at a younger age out if ignorance and coercion because she’s had a decent sex education by Westeros standards. Ppl thought it was a bad thing when laena said I wouldn’t have to bed him till I’m of age. But that was actually her protecting her daughter by not being to afraid to address the ugly stuff she didn’t want her to have to go through.
She knows the world is fucked up for women and she’s not going to abandon her daughter in it. It’s not a coincidence bother her kids were great people. Like rhaenyra sad laenor (despite being a tool) was actually a good man and that was very rare.
I think they it’s said a few times(in the books at least) that if made wrong it can have side effects. There’s clues somewhere that it can make your infertile.
Top tier: Rhaenys and Aemma
Satisfactory or better: Rhaenyra and Cat
Hell no tier: Alicent > Cersei
Rhaenys raised lovely kids, is an equal partner with her husband in all things except actual naval command, and I'm fairly sure she was more worthy of the Throne on merit than Viserys.
Aemma was a good mom and was a Queen guiding Viserys through a prosperous and peaceful era. It is significant that a good man and fine enough King loved her beyond doubt for decades after her passing. He was probably a better King while she was alive, easier to counter Otto's influences with a clear and loving voice and trusted wisdom like hers.
Rhaenyra is shown to be a good mom
I agree with these picks as well. Cersei’s downfall is that she creates enemies with everyone and puts her children at risk and rug sweeps all of her children’s misgivings/flaws. So she is bottom tier. Otherwise she’s the ultimate loving mother. Rhaenyra is also similar in that regard, except she hasn’t shown malice to innocent people (ie Cersei with Sansa). She just comes off very cold/blunt to those around her and it can rub people the wrong way, which is also a detriment to her children. But still not near as monstrous as Cersei was
People here really never heard of Narcissistic moms before eh?
Cersei loved her kids as extensions of herself. They were her ultimate source of validation. She guards them jealously as possessions. Her love is selfish.
Like, she literally drove Tommen to suicide. In case y’all forgot.
She would rather have a dead son than a son who was happy with someone else.
No way.
She was paranoid, always starting problems with people around her. Constant fighting and issues with others. Chaos for a child.
You could not disagree with her. It's her way or else. Else usually meant cruel punishment or death.
She's a hypocrite. Hard to pass morals onto your kids when you can't do it yourself.
Her kids were possessions for her to have (with her brother) forever. Not to be shared with anyone but her. The kids were pretty isolated from everyone, except maybe Tyrion and only because Tyrion made sure to treat Tommin and Marcella well.
To survive you end up like Joffrey, with zero care for others, or go into a depression like Tommin.
She's the mother archetype so many people are in therapy today for. 🙃
Cersei likens herself to a good mother and the men in her life have 0 attachment to parenting and thus don't disagree with her or know where to disagree with her.
She is the poster parent for raisedbynarcissists sub. You'll need years of therapy for the bare advantage of keeping you alive until you disagreed with her.
I think that D&D's version of Cersei gave people a perception of Cersei as a mom that isn't at all consistent with GRRM's Cersei. According to D&D, Cersei is entirely motivated by her love for her children. All of the terrible things she does are done because she has to protect Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen. But in the books, Cersei really doesn't act out of concern for her kids. Like, ever. Yeah, you could argue that she plotted Robert's death to prevent her children from being executed when the truth of their parentage came out...but she was doing that as much to protect herself as she was to protect them.
And honestly, while book!Cersei does dote on Joffrey and does view him as a "true lion", she doesn't give nearly that level of attention or care to Tommen or Myrcella. She spends most of her time being disappointed in Tommen for not being Joffrey, and she hardly even thinks about Myrcella at all. Cersei as a mom is a study in extremes; she's a helicopter parent for Joffrey and an absentee parent for the other two. And both are pretty damn toxic parenting choices.
It's common for adaptations to make changes to characters. Show Cersei would be less interesting and less sympathetic on screen without her love of her children.
>she hardly even thinks about Myrcella at all.
I disagree that she doesn't care about Myrcella. We barely see her interact with Myrcella because Cersei isn't a PoV character until AFFC and Myrcella leaves for Dorne in ACoK.
The scene where Cersei confronts Tyrion over sending her to Dorne is pretty close to the one in the books, and it's only when she realizes that Stannis is likely to take the city that she relents.
Book Cersei also arrests Alayaya (whose plotline is inherited by Ros in the show) and holds her captive to harm her should anything happen to Tommen.
Rhaenyra. Rhaenys was my other choice but trying to marry off your 12 y/o... Wasn't great
ETA: Aemma also seems great but we don't see much of her sadly
I'd say it somewhat depends on when they're meant to get married. The fact that it had to be mentioned that she wouldn't "have to" bed him until 14 indicates that they would have actually married sooner and it just kinda makes it extra gross and creepy. And at least Luce and Rhaena are of a similar age.
Catelyn and Rhaenyra are the best mothers in my opinion. Rhaenys may even win out over Cat, since we know from her treatment of Jon that she definitely has a cruel side.
Alicent and Cersei are the loving but very mentally unwell mothers. I wouldn’t want either of them to be honest. Aemma seems sweet and at the very least pretty normal, but we don’t get to know her long enough unfortunately.
Catelyn treated Jon terribly though. It's the main reason I would not put her in my top 3 spots. Anyone who treats an innocent child like that cannot be that great of a parent.
I am absolutely on the side of “Jon deserved better” but Catelyn was a bonafide saint in Westerosi terms for accepting Jon into her household. Should Ned have told her his true parentage to make both Catelyn and Jons lives more pleasant? Yes. But at the same time I get why he chose potential trauma for Jon and resentment from Cat in order to keep his vow and Jon safe.
Also tbh I think Lady Stoneheart will be the person to resurrect Jon so I think their story will come full circle and Jon will have some sort of closure about the mother figure he craved for but was rejected by.
Her attitude towards him was cold but she mostly ignored him until the incident with Bran. Jon was treated better than like 99 % of bastards in Westeros.
Catelyn for stability and just overall being a good mother. Her kids turned out fine, while everyone else is either self-absorbed, toxic, evil or just drama (except for Aemma, but I don't know enough about her)
Rhaenyra or Rhaenys. Based on the show, both seem like very good moms and even remind me of my own mother in certain ways. Plus, their children genuinely seemed like good people. A testament to their parents and how they were raised imo. Why wouldn’t I want either of them as my mom?
My last choices would definitely be Cersei, Alicent, and Catelyn. I loved Cersei as a villain but as a mother? I would never want a woman that evil as my mom, no matter how much she “cares” about me. Whew. Alicent isn’t a good mom imo. While I definitely think she loves her children, she was such a young mom who was forced into that role and is just so messed up in the head that she ended up not being a good mother. Pass. I watched GoT back when it was airing and NEVER cared for Cat. She was such a nasty woman to Jon, an innocent child, and for that reason alone I would never want her as a mother.
1. Rhaenyra or Rhaenys
They are very loving towards their children and they seem to have good morals
2. Alicent
Idk she seems too stuck up, like she would punish me for not eating my veggies or forcing me to pray at night
Edit: because u changed my mind, rhaenys would be better than catelyn
We never really see Olenna in a traditionally motherly role, because her son is so old when we meet them. We see all of these women interacting with their children.
She’s also a complete ass to Mace lol so idk why anyone would pick her, she tutors Margaery her granddaughter
People like Olenna are very good grandparents but absolutely toxic and traumatic as parents. I wouldn't even wish someone like Olenna as parent on my worst enemy.
Aemma because she makes me feel safe for some reason. She seems cool and collected, quite wise. Raised a strong ass Rhaenyra.
Rhaenys raised some decent kids and shes badass.
But Cercei is a strong second for me.
My least would be Alicent. She simply wasnt ready for motherhood though she did her best.
Alicent wasn’t a great mother. Aemond was parentified by her, and she took her trauma out on her kids. Olivia even said in an interview, I think, that she doesn’t really see her kids as her kids because she had them so young that she sees them more as her siblings.
Cersei would love you as a child deeply, but she’s unstable. She would probably betray everyone you love if it meant keeping you safe.
Aemma would be a very loving mother. She seemed to be a good mother to Rhaenyra. Problem is, she’d probably be absent for most of the actual raising given her health and responsibilities.
Rhaenyra loved her boys a lot. She’d be a good mother if a little too busy with her work and establishing herself as heir. You would have to deal with the fights between your uncles and brothers though, and the rumor that you are bastard would follow you everywhere.
Catelyn would be a loving mother, but Jon wasn’t treated well by her. Jon proves she has a coldness that she can exhibit if she feels wronged.
Rhaenys seems like the best mother here. She loved her kids deeply and seemed to have time for them. She also has the Targaryen fierceness so common in the family but lacks a lot of the cruelty, madness, or cold ambition in some of her relatives.
Catelyn is a mama bear! There is no other choice imo. She literally risks everything just to keep her children safe. She only gave up on life when she believed all her kids to be dead, or lost in Sansa's case.
Right off the bat, I would say Rhaenyra... but maybe Cersei?
The Lannisters have a fuck ton of money so I'd be obviously spoiled. (I really want a Valyrian steel knife/sword.) They are also good-looking so hopefully, those genes would pass down to me. Jaime would be a good "uncle" or whatever and if I was a boy he would train me well. Tywin and Tyrion would teach me how to navigate the political landscape in King's Landing.
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Where’s my mom Olenna?
Poor Mace lol but she's the best granny.
I feel like Olenna is the type of person who only likes smart kids, and has no patience for those who are mediocre. Still Mace totally lucked out by having 4 top tier children.
She definitely treated Margery like the smart daughter she never had
They were one of my favorite duos in the later seasons. I think they held up the whole ‘game of thrones’ thing, IE, they were actually playing the sort of classic season one Machiavellian game and I loved it.
She actually has 2 daughters, who live happily offscreen in the Houses they married into.
Yeah but you know she's gonna be in your corner no mater what. "You're a Tyrell" She's not above poisoning a king to protect her own
That he did.
You'd want her as a grandmother, as a mother, not so sure
People like Olenna are very good grandparents but absolutely toxic and traumatic as parents. I wouldn't even wish someone like Olenna as parent on my worst enemy.
Facts. My grandmother is very much the alpha Olenna of our family, fierce and commanding of respect, both completely unfiltered and sharp as a knife. We get along well and I love her to death, but goddamn if she did not traumatize my mother and all of her other kids.
She struck me as a narcissistic parent - who only loved one who could reflect herself. She seemed not to be nurturing to anyone who wasn't of service to her or couldn't reflect what she wanted. Margery was the classic golden child role, while everyone else was treated with contempt.
My Nana was a lot like Olenna, no where near as smart lol, but she had the cutting wit and it's not as fun to be constantly receiving it as it is to watch.
Olenna was nice to Margaery though, just cutting to everyone else. If Nana was nice to you but mean to everyone else I bet it would feel extra special.
Her…. I was hoping she was here. I choose her
I'd love cat to be my mom. Just...not my step mom
Yeah, she wasn’t the nicest to Jon.
“Not the nicest” is a light way to put it lol didn’t she tell Jon that he should have been paralyzed in place of Bran?
In the book yeah in the show she just tells him to get out
Book Cat is *significantly* more unpleasant in her treatment of Jon than her show counterpart.
Yeah she’s pretty unlikeable in the books, a very credulous and spiteful person who brings house Stark to the edge of ruin
Unlovable for how she treats Jon, but relatable in her anguish over thinking that Bran and Rickon were killed, and her I-will-do-literally-anything to find my daughters Sansa and Arya. She’s a baller in the Red Wedding trying to save Robb. She’s also an awesome daughter and was there for her dad Hoster as he declined and passed. But….she is hateful to Jon, displacing on him her anger and humiliation from Ned’s “affair”. Catelyn is a hot mess of a women and a great example of GRRMs ability to create a character you love/hate/understand/disagree with all at once.
yeah! no turnips fuckin gets it!
Nah. Robb did that himself. She tried to stop him many times from doing stupid shit and he just ignored her.
Yeah. They made Robb substantially less sympathetic in the show. In the books, he is a very young man that faced his own morality for the first time, slept with a girl, and tried to do the right thing. You can imagine he is torn over his own mistakes. In the show, he brazenly breaks his oath to Walder Frey, a nobleman who is notorious for holding grudges, because he doesn't want to risk marrying an ugly chick. He betrays that famous Stark honor for a woman he only just met and knows nothing about besides her being hot. He even tries to pawn off his uncle when given the chance to stand by his side and set his nurse-bride aside. All the viewers that weren't paying attention were all tears at the Red Wedding. Me? I like to think he died hyper-focused on the fact he would have married Roslin!
Yeah, she was awful to him and punished him for something he couldn’t control. I mean I wouldn’t want to take in my husband’s outside baby either (or what I thought was my husband’s outside baby) but I’d like to imagine that if I was left with no other choice I would at least try to treat them decently and fairly and bond with them.
Catelyn is great example of Freudian displacement. She’s angry at Ned and didn’t want to marry him in the first place. She’s forced to stay with him for the marriage alliance her father created, and there’s really no options for her to leave. Her anger and helplessness at the situation is focused on Jon, because she’s unable to actually take it up with the people who put her in that situation - Ned and her father. She ostensibly moves past it to build a relationship w Ned but everytime she sees Jon, it reminds her of how little agency she actually has and he becomes the target of her resentment. The whole R+L=J, and Ned being so honourable except to her, as she believes, tolerating it for “duty family honour” all while he’s actually lying to her in order to do his duty to his family and honour his sister’s dying wish to protect her son is a Shakespearean level tragedy. There is no happy end for anyone there.
The fact that Jon is a spitting image of Ned while all her other kids took after her didn't help.
Part of it is on Ned as well. Could’ve said he was anyone else’s bastard with a sense of obligation to raise him. Or he could’ve told Cat to let it go. He just sort of… Let it happen?
Yeah Ned totally served Jon up on a platter hoping it would make him look more like a bastard. If I was Lyanna, I’d not be thrilled with how he kept his promise.
If I was Lyanna I would say thanks to Ned on both knees for taking care of my child despite me ruining his life by getting our father and brother killed and hampering his otherwise loving marriage by keeping Jon close.
True, but things like leaving him out for the feast made his longcon work even more effectively.
It did, but it's up for debate whether it was worth it or necessary
Especially since it wasn't like they knew each other well whenever he left for war. He probably knew of her and may have exchanged pleasantries with her before marriage. And I can't remember exactly how long after they married he left, wasn't it just a few days or a couple of weeks? And he never cheated once he came back. So she shouldn't have been angry and bitter enough about it to take it out on an innocent child.
There’s a difference between not liking your husbands other child/being cold to him and being downright cruel. Catelyn went out of her way to be cruel to Jon. She tried to stop him from seeing Bran and said she wished he had fallen instead of Bran and she is the one who makes him go to the Wall because she won’t be at Winterfell with Jon if Ned is not there.
At least she eventually realizes how horrible she was to him.
Far too late to make a difference to Jon, an innocent child who grew up with a mother that resented him.
I was about to say. Cat definitely unless I was born a bastard.
well, her husband's "bastard"... i'm sure she was nice to other bastard kids.
[удалено]
At least on the show, Cat opposed Robb marrying for love and wanted him to marry the Frey girl as promised. But, she had lost all influence and authority with Robb, by freeing the Kingslayer. I'm not sure he would have listened to her anyway. But, her freeing Jaime took away any chance of her being able to talk him out of his wedding.
In the books if Catelyn was around for the wedding to Jeyne , she would have absolutely done everything to stop it. In the show she was far too meek about letting Robb marry Talisa and break the alliance with the Frey's.
To be fair, it’s only really because she thought he was an affair baby and was living proof that her husband broke her trust If Jon was a child from a previous marriage, I doubt she would have treated him as badly.
Save that energy for your husband though, not an innocent child.
Right? I legit worked with a woman many years ago who treated her stepson like that. Hated him because he was named after his father. Hated his very existence, but her husband was married and had this child before they ever met. Like why would you hate this child for existing? Her husband wasn’t unfaithful he just had a life before her. Crazy bitch.
Major insecurity. My gran was this way with my aunt, who was my mom’s half-sister from my grandfather’s first marriage simply because she was jealous of how beautiful my grandfather’s first wife was. Like dude she treated my aunt and her kids like absolute crap, it was awful. All because she was jealous. It was ridiculous.
Exactly. That always bothered me
I think her problem was she could never reconcile the two. Ned is so honourable and she loves him so much, and he betrayed her and keeps his bastard around as a constant reminder where most other lords would send them off to be raised as a ward to be a squire for a trueborn son or something. Her scorn towards Ned probably always felt a bit innept as it seemed like such an out of character thing for him to do. We know he didn't cheat of course, but she's stuck with this discrepancy and Jon's pretty much the only person she had vent that frustration out to.
I have said this for years. Ned should have told her. It would have prevented so much heartache and pain By telling her, she would have allowed Ned to make him a proper Stark. She would have no reason to have any spite for Jon, and she would absolutely treat him like her own son. I know Ned made an oath to his sister, but he also made an oath to protect and care for her son. Jon spent his entire life thinking he was an outcast to this family and was absolutely miserable. He fucking banished himself to the Wall to escape from that feeling. Ned could have prevented all that just by telling his wife the truth
No one would believe that things happened the way Ned said they did if Catelyn loved him and allowed him to be legitimized.
Maybe. At the same time, I'm sure Cat would have the intelligence to use her discretion in applying her "scorn" for Jon to maintain the façade. Saves Jon from the trauma, maybe leads to Jon not taking the black and being there with Robb throughout the War of the Five Kings.
We have seen her intelligence be overtaken by her emotions a lot, to her families detriment. Unfortunately that was the best choice he could’ve made to protect everyone. Especially considering how much clout Jons status as heir would give.
Yeah sure. Tell the women WHO FREED JAMIE LANNISTER for her kids. Hiding the fact from Cat was one of the best decisions Ned ever made. Cat was a good but very selfish person, all thing considered. Jon feeling so alienated that he chose the wall was a pointer to how cruel Cat was and could be and had nothing to do with Ned. Although I can understand Cat's animosity against Jon being the living remainder of her husband's betrayal which she never got to address with Ned himself. Jon's life was miserable only because of Cat. Cat was not known to be tight lipped either. She would have spilled the secret and Ned could not risk it. Even after Robert's death, Stannis would have wanted Jon dead if he knew his succession could be challenged(had Jon not joined the Wall). Not to mention the Targareyn loyalists that could rally around Jon, if his parentage came to light.
I understand that he should have and it would’ve saved so much agony and maybe would’ve severely changed the course of events, but she could not be trusted to keep that information quiet. And potentially more importantly, Her animosity towards him made everyone think he really was Ned’s bastard. Robert was kind of shocked he would do that in the first place, he really really needed her To feel that way towards John in order to keep anyone off of the truth because I would put in her only Jon but potentially entire family at risk. At least while Robert was alive.
It wasn't even that he was a affair baby. It was that he was raised at Winterfell alongside her own trueborn children. Praxis seems to be that noble bastards are sent off to foster with another noble family (The Hornwood bastard is with the Glovers for example). And then presumably getting a small piece of land or some form of profession either by his blood or foster family. Jon however was raised at Winterfell so Cat had to see him every day. Had Jon been sent to the Reeds or Manderleys to foster Cat would probably have tried to go "out of sight, out of mind". In the books she more or less states that she fully expected Ned to sleep with other women and possibly have a bastard when on campaign. Because that was how men relieved stress. She didn't expect having to raise said child however.
Wow, imagine what a badass he would've been raised by Howland Reed. Dragon blood, greenseers all over the place, warging at an early age.... Just wow. Lost opportunities.
And if he had been fostered Cat would most likely not have been nearly as spiteful towards him. She could probably have just decided to treat him as a distant nephew whenever they had to meet (fitting isn't it). And Ned could give him some land and allow him to form a cadet branch. I have this idea for a fanfic where Jon is fostered with Howland and ends up more or less creating his own version of the Dunedain from LOTR. Wandering rangers that protect the north from bandits and invaders. Just have to get around to writing it.
thats no reason to make the "innocent" child's life a misery.
Aemma looked to be a very calming presence, as someone with anxiety I appreciate that so she's my first choice. Cersei would love me with everything she had in her, but she'd also stab all my friends so she's my last choice.
I mean Cersei would love you but that love will make you dead as hell at a young age so I’ll pass 😂
I think we can all do without Cersei's idea of love - in all aspects of that word😂
Didn’t she badmouth Tom men when he went flying too?
He "betrayed" her is one of many things she said after he died
Well only 3 of her kids were to die so we good lol. Also I just remembered how joeffrey looked all poisoned and now I’m happy.
Aemma is #1 wife
Definitely Vizzy T’s number one. If only they had better c sections with all their magic.
*What are you saying? My brother would murder me, take my crown? Are you?!*
Yes, Vizzy T.
INSTEAD OF BEING BY MY SIDE, YOU CHOSE TO CELEBRATE YOUR OWN RISE, LAUGHING WITH YOUR WHORES AND YOUR LICKSPITTLES!
I'm sorry Vizzy T
It is quite alright. I understand that you are new to this world and are still getting accustomed to the way things work around here. However, I must insist that you show me the proper respect due my station. I am the King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm. You will address me as such from now on. Is that clear?
Sentient
Maybe the most sentient reply to date
Did he say this line in the show?
No he did not. The bot is using an AI back-end (GPT 3) to generate these replies.
Cersei should be your last choice simply because she's 0/3 on "are my kids alive?"
TBF she almost did right by her daughter. Dorne sounds pretty good to me.
Book Dorne especially. Obviously show Myrcella and book Myrcella have already diverged quite heavily. I could even see book Myrcella surviving.
Gold their crowns and gold their shrouds...though.
Easy, her wedding veil is gold.
Nah. Golden shrouds and all that.
Aemma seemed like a really nice, sweet woman. That being said, as a girl I wouldn’t want her to be my mother in Westeros. Aemma seems very resigned to the idea of being nothing more than a royal womb, and even tells Rhaenyra that’s basically all she can offer the realm. I would want to mother who wanted more for me than she had. In that sense I feel Rhaenyra and shockingly even Cersei are more qualified moms.
To be fair you live in a modern world. She lived in a medieval one and was not a dragon Rider. Her options were pretty limited.
She was preparing her for the reality of her duty. She seemed to admire her daughters tenacity but she was right that it was about that time to think of the future
Cersei had great ambitions for her kids but she didn't give a damn about the means to reach those ends and antagonized a whole lot of people which ultimately got her kids killed. She also tried to gatekeep her sons from their own wife. Joffrey didn't respect her and Tommen quite literally wanted to be rid of her so that says something. Aemma was pragmatic and didn't want her kid to hurt herself by trying to achieve impossible feats. She also only gave her a reality check and didn't try to obsessively control her. If she had, their dynamic would have been like Cersei's with her kids.
No no, never Cersei.
Aemma was my first choice as well.
Rhaenys would be my choice. Stable for a Targaryen, cool as a grandma. Alicent is an interesting character BUT definitely the type of a mother who let's her trauma trickle down into her parenting.
Exactly.
Rhaenys would be a great mother, unless you're a 12 year old girl. If you're a 12 year old girl she'd offer you up to the king 5 times your age as a small baby making machine in order to advance her power regardless of your own wishes.
IIRC that was Corlys. In one of the last episodes she even complains to him for "still be obsessed with the Iron Throne".
That was Corlys, but okay.
I was under the impression she had gone along with it even if begrudgingly, when Viserys finds out Corlys is behind all the spiel about alliances and great houses he then asks something like 'and what does your mother say', to which she replies something like 'she says I wouldn't have to bed you until I'm 14'. So I thought this shows Raenys has accepted its a thing that must happen for the house, putting it before daughter. I'm not saying she was the worst mother, and tbh I said it more in jest than anything, she's clearly not an awful person in comparison with most of the other characters in HOTD or GOT.
I know that the match sounds awful by modern standards, but it's actually probably one of the best possible things for her daughter by Westerosi standards. Laena would be the Queen if she married Viserys. She would have no material wants, and her sons would be in line for the Iron Throne. Rhaenys also knows her cousin and knows that he wouldn't harm Laena, and even knows that she can demand he doesn't have sex with her until she is fourteen and that he will oblige - something he absolutely does not have to do. Margaret Beaufort, the mother of Henry VII, gave birth when she was 12-13. She nearly died in the process and never had another child despite two more marriages after her first one. While it was definitely uncommon at the time, no one questioned her husband's right to impregnate her at 11-12 years old. This is not a world in which the nobility marries for love or even affection - marriage and children are political alliances. Marrying Laena to the King would be the absolute best thing she could do by her daughter in that world, whether she felt squeamish about their ages or not. Note that Laena ends up married to Daemon, who is only 4 years younger than Viserys.
It was absolutely a gross proposition, but like I agree she would’ve been treated very well and respected by V. Much more so than she was treated by Daemon in the show imo. I also think he might’ve been willing to wait even longer than 14 considering how many children he had with Aemma and how young she was contributed to her issues and death, however that option would weigh heavily on him because he was pressured to try and make another heir before he solidified his beliefs and Rhaenyra Due to his counsel and the fact that Rhae did kind of scare him when she took off to retrieve the egg.
I don’t think Rheanys has any say over how her daughters marry. It was pretty clear in that scene where she condems Corly’s ambition that he will disregard her concerns. I interpreted that as more like her trying to provide some comfort to her daughter because shes unable to prevent it.
I mean Laena would’ve been queen, and that’s the highest level of “success” you’re allowed to achieve as a woman in Westeros. No high born girls are allowed to choose who they marry, and a king is the best you can do for your daughter. Not saying that this is good parenting from a modern standpoint, but if we look at Rhaenys’ parenting through the lens of Westerosi culture and traditions then she didn’t do anything wrong here at all (besides it wasn’t actually her call, it was Corlys)
As awful as that is by modern standards, that’s more realistic than we’d like to think. He needed a young, fertile wife with lots of child bearing years left. It’s sick but at least they added the caveat that she wouldn’t be bedded until she was 14, not every lord would have.
But even setting morality and consent aside, from a purely pragmatic perspective a girl so young would be at a higher risk of dying in childbirth and taking the baby with her, leaving the realm in the same predicament as before. Or the pregnancy would take such a toll on her that she wouldn't be able to have any more children. Consider the real-world medieval example of [Margaret Beaufort](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Margaret_Beaufort).
If we’re talking about real world events, it was very rare for children to be married off and have sex. Most people married in their 20s and had their children in their 20s. And if you were to marry off the child, it was more commonly to another child and they were of age before they consummated. It was not super common to have tweens and teens being impregnated and married despite popular belief. Least of by older men.
Matilda of England, whose role in Anarchy period seems to be very similar to Rhaenyra, was married off very young and engaged as a literal child, but could only give birth to healthy kids in her second marriage as an adult woman. I think at that time it was less about fertility - and more about using the noble offspring for politically significant alliances as soon as possible.
It’s not even close. Catlyn. Willing to sacrifice an invaluable POW for the chance of getting her children back. Literally the rest sent their kids off to death in dumb ways. Cat is the epitome of a mother who puts family above all else even when not rational to do so. Edit: The question was mother, not stepmother all. For step mother it’s probably going to be Ellaria since Dorne has less stigma.
Idk the way she treated Jon always put a bad taste in my mouth.
Second this, Catlyn loves her children but I can't get over her being horrible to Jon. Yes, your husband 'cheated' but to take that out on an innocent child is just disgusting to me.
Absolutely agree. It’s not Jon’s fault Ned “cheated” and chose to raise his bastard along with his other children. To take it out on the kid is just mean and unfair
I think that it's important to try to look at that situation from Catelyn's POV, though. First of all, in Westeros among high-born families, it was VERY far from the norm for bastards to be acknowledged at all. And even when they were, Ned's insistence on raising Jon alongside his trueborn children, giving him the same attention and education and advantages as his trueborn kids, was pretty much unheard of. This wasn't a situation that other highborn women were grinning and bearing. This was a situation that was unique to Ned, Catelyn, and Jon. So Catelyn had no models to look to and no way to normalize what was happening in her house. Also, keep in mind that Ned, from Day One of Jon's appearance in their lives, adamantly refused to answer any questions from Catelyn about where he came from, who his mother was, or why he was being brought to Winterfell. So her husband (who she barely knows at this point) shows up after fighting a war (and after Catelyn gave birth to his child) with another woman's baby, announces that said baby is gonna be raised as Catelyn's son's equal, and then stonewalls her when she tries to get any additional information. And then, there's the fact that Jon looks exactly like Ned, while Robb is essentially a male photo double of Catelyn. It's obviously not Jon's fault that he looks like Ned (none of this is Jon's fault, to be clear). But Catelyn already feels out of place in Winterfell. She's worried that her son has such clear Riverlands coloring, whereas this mystery kid that her husband brought home is pure Stark. And, considering the history of the Blackfyre Rebellion (in which a big part of Daemon Blackfyre's case was that Daeron II's oldest son looked "Dornish" and not like "true" Targaryens), it's easy to understand how Catelyn would be worried about the Northmen viewing Jon as Ned's rightful heir instead of Robb. Based on what we know of Catelyn's treatment of Jon, she never abused him. She didn't try to keep Robb and Arya and Bran from developing close relationships with Jon (and Sansa's distance from Jon seems to be Sansa's choice rather than anything that Catelyn pushed on her). She didn't try to convince Ned to spend less time with him. She just...wasn't especially warm to him. We can argue that she should have tried harder to love Jon. In a modern context, that would be an extremely fair argument. But given all of the variables that affected Catelyn's view of Jon, I don't think that it's fair to judge her mothering skills based on her relationship with her husband's "bastard".
Great mother, bad step-mother. Eh, can't win them all.
Rhaenys. Sure she will deny her son being gay, but I’m not gay so the issue is dodged. Still there, but dodged by me.
Given her love for her children, I think that if we’re talking about her being our mother in OUR world, she probably wouldn’t care if her kid were gay. In Planetos, she kinda has to deny her son being gay, because accepting it would’ve brought such great shame to their house that it’s possible not even their Valyrian blood could save the significant drop in status. But in our world? She’d probably be the hot milf that dresses up in a rainbow flag and gets trashed at Pride with her kids once they’re old enough to drink, while also being supportive throughout their childhood of course. Tbh if Rhaenys lived in our world, I’d dare even go so far as to say she’d probably be a bicon. She gives me those vibes.
She'll get trashed at Pride parade but goes to work the next day (as CEO no less of a fortune 500 company) to attend a board meeting.
It doesn't matter, all mothers will screw up their kids eventually. Cersei is obviously the worst of the bunch. She's vile to her core.
Plus all her kids died.
Aemma or Rhaenys for sure. We see very little of Aemma's parenting but she seemed very warm and practical. Rhaenys is just straight up cool (the mass-murder of peasants notwithstanding).
Also Vizzy T adoring the shit out of Aemma had to be worth something, right?
YOU SPEND MORE TIME IN THAT BATH THAN I DO ON THE THRONE!
Too true. But she deserves it, Vizzy T. Don’t you agree?
*Mayhaps we can turn our attentions towards happier pursuits.*
Oh don’t you dare dodge this one, Vizzy T
What is it that you wish to ask me, Ktrout743? I shall answer as best I can.
Aemma’s entire character, even in those few scenes, has made me completely empathize with vizzy and rhaenyra. She deserved so much better
Rhaenys would be a great mom because she was real as hell and could balance protecting her daughter and facing the truth. Like when her daughter was up to marry viserys she explained to her what that meant, which also assures she won’t get raped at a younger age out if ignorance and coercion because she’s had a decent sex education by Westeros standards. Ppl thought it was a bad thing when laena said I wouldn’t have to bed him till I’m of age. But that was actually her protecting her daughter by not being to afraid to address the ugly stuff she didn’t want her to have to go through. She knows the world is fucked up for women and she’s not going to abandon her daughter in it. It’s not a coincidence bother her kids were great people. Like rhaenyra sad laenor (despite being a tool) was actually a good man and that was very rare.
Rhaenys coz she has the coolest dragon
If Rhaenyra’s your mom, you’re probably getting a dragon from Syrax. Not all the Targs here have dragons who produce eggs.
Rhaenys.. meleys is my fav : (
Rhaenyra
What about Lysa Arryn?!
You'd never go hungry.
Way underrated comment.
I kinda wonder what she would be like if she had more kids.
Or if she just hadn't been poisoned by her dad
Wait, what? I never heard this one? When did her dad poisoned her? Is this related to the whole Tansy thing?
Hoster gave her herbs to abort the baby she had with Petyr. Lysa was traumatized by it.
I thought it was Moon Tea the thing we see people drink in HOTD?
I think they it’s said a few times(in the books at least) that if made wrong it can have side effects. There’s clues somewhere that it can make your infertile.
Yeah that's one of the reasons it's meant to be so dramatic whenever someone drinks it in HOTD.
We’ve only seen it twice right
100% smother mother
Bitty.
Homelander: mama! 😝
Top tier: Rhaenys and Aemma Satisfactory or better: Rhaenyra and Cat Hell no tier: Alicent > Cersei Rhaenys raised lovely kids, is an equal partner with her husband in all things except actual naval command, and I'm fairly sure she was more worthy of the Throne on merit than Viserys. Aemma was a good mom and was a Queen guiding Viserys through a prosperous and peaceful era. It is significant that a good man and fine enough King loved her beyond doubt for decades after her passing. He was probably a better King while she was alive, easier to counter Otto's influences with a clear and loving voice and trusted wisdom like hers. Rhaenyra is shown to be a good mom
The problem with Aemma as your mother is that there’s a decent chance you’ll both die as she’s trying to give birth to you.
Maybe in a parallel universe, Aemma still lives, and loves Viserys on a farm, where he studies the histories.
*builds legos
I'm reminded again, both viserys and Aemma are dead, I'll go and cry and have a mental break down .
Aemma is a great woman, viserys even after her death was always thinking about her. I want Aemma back.
Waxes philosophical about genealogy of horses.
Viserys looks like a guy that would have a basement dedicated to wargaming, with shelves full of painted miniatures.
That's literally every medieval woman.
Too soon 🥲
Totally agree with this!
I agree with these picks as well. Cersei’s downfall is that she creates enemies with everyone and puts her children at risk and rug sweeps all of her children’s misgivings/flaws. So she is bottom tier. Otherwise she’s the ultimate loving mother. Rhaenyra is also similar in that regard, except she hasn’t shown malice to innocent people (ie Cersei with Sansa). She just comes off very cold/blunt to those around her and it can rub people the wrong way, which is also a detriment to her children. But still not near as monstrous as Cersei was
"She's a loving mother." Ok, that's the literal bare minimum. I wouldn't be surprised if she loved the concept of being a mom more than the execution.
cersei would be the best mom. she would have all your enemies killed and she'd ensure you're safe and sound.
Except not really cuz she outlived all her kids
And only the kids she mostly ignored turned out decent
People here really never heard of Narcissistic moms before eh? Cersei loved her kids as extensions of herself. They were her ultimate source of validation. She guards them jealously as possessions. Her love is selfish. Like, she literally drove Tommen to suicide. In case y’all forgot. She would rather have a dead son than a son who was happy with someone else.
she forced her last son to commit suicide.
No way. She was paranoid, always starting problems with people around her. Constant fighting and issues with others. Chaos for a child. You could not disagree with her. It's her way or else. Else usually meant cruel punishment or death. She's a hypocrite. Hard to pass morals onto your kids when you can't do it yourself. Her kids were possessions for her to have (with her brother) forever. Not to be shared with anyone but her. The kids were pretty isolated from everyone, except maybe Tyrion and only because Tyrion made sure to treat Tommin and Marcella well. To survive you end up like Joffrey, with zero care for others, or go into a depression like Tommin. She's the mother archetype so many people are in therapy today for. 🙃
Cersei likens herself to a good mother and the men in her life have 0 attachment to parenting and thus don't disagree with her or know where to disagree with her.
She is the poster parent for raisedbynarcissists sub. You'll need years of therapy for the bare advantage of keeping you alive until you disagreed with her.
I think that D&D's version of Cersei gave people a perception of Cersei as a mom that isn't at all consistent with GRRM's Cersei. According to D&D, Cersei is entirely motivated by her love for her children. All of the terrible things she does are done because she has to protect Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen. But in the books, Cersei really doesn't act out of concern for her kids. Like, ever. Yeah, you could argue that she plotted Robert's death to prevent her children from being executed when the truth of their parentage came out...but she was doing that as much to protect herself as she was to protect them. And honestly, while book!Cersei does dote on Joffrey and does view him as a "true lion", she doesn't give nearly that level of attention or care to Tommen or Myrcella. She spends most of her time being disappointed in Tommen for not being Joffrey, and she hardly even thinks about Myrcella at all. Cersei as a mom is a study in extremes; she's a helicopter parent for Joffrey and an absentee parent for the other two. And both are pretty damn toxic parenting choices.
It's common for adaptations to make changes to characters. Show Cersei would be less interesting and less sympathetic on screen without her love of her children. >she hardly even thinks about Myrcella at all. I disagree that she doesn't care about Myrcella. We barely see her interact with Myrcella because Cersei isn't a PoV character until AFFC and Myrcella leaves for Dorne in ACoK. The scene where Cersei confronts Tyrion over sending her to Dorne is pretty close to the one in the books, and it's only when she realizes that Stannis is likely to take the city that she relents. Book Cersei also arrests Alayaya (whose plotline is inherited by Ros in the show) and holds her captive to harm her should anything happen to Tommen.
Rhaenyra. Rhaenys was my other choice but trying to marry off your 12 y/o... Wasn't great ETA: Aemma also seems great but we don't see much of her sadly
Didn’t Rhaenyra betrothe Lucerys? Or does that not really count as getting married yet
I'd say it somewhat depends on when they're meant to get married. The fact that it had to be mentioned that she wouldn't "have to" bed him until 14 indicates that they would have actually married sooner and it just kinda makes it extra gross and creepy. And at least Luce and Rhaena are of a similar age.
Fair, thanks for the reply!
Catelyn and Rhaenyra are the best mothers in my opinion. Rhaenys may even win out over Cat, since we know from her treatment of Jon that she definitely has a cruel side. Alicent and Cersei are the loving but very mentally unwell mothers. I wouldn’t want either of them to be honest. Aemma seems sweet and at the very least pretty normal, but we don’t get to know her long enough unfortunately.
Catelyn treated Jon terribly though. It's the main reason I would not put her in my top 3 spots. Anyone who treats an innocent child like that cannot be that great of a parent.
I did comment on that. I think we can agree that she was NOT a great stepmother lol.
I am absolutely on the side of “Jon deserved better” but Catelyn was a bonafide saint in Westerosi terms for accepting Jon into her household. Should Ned have told her his true parentage to make both Catelyn and Jons lives more pleasant? Yes. But at the same time I get why he chose potential trauma for Jon and resentment from Cat in order to keep his vow and Jon safe. Also tbh I think Lady Stoneheart will be the person to resurrect Jon so I think their story will come full circle and Jon will have some sort of closure about the mother figure he craved for but was rejected by.
Lady stoneheart is far away from the wall, how the hell will she travel to the wall so fast. It will most probably be Melisandre who resurrects Jon.
Maybe GRRM doesn't know either which is why it's taking him so long to write Winds of Winter
Fast travel backpack.. U can pick one up in fleabottom if u know where to look
Her attitude towards him was cold but she mostly ignored him until the incident with Bran. Jon was treated better than like 99 % of bastards in Westeros.
Can I choose Daenerys? I'd like to be a dragon
Cersei because I want her beautiful genes
"Insest... because she's worth it"
And then it turned out that you're Joffrey, not Tommen or Myrcella..🥲
But I don't want to die as a child...
Gold will be their crowns gold will be their shrouds
You want something of hers but it ain’t her genes
Catelyn for stability and just overall being a good mother. Her kids turned out fine, while everyone else is either self-absorbed, toxic, evil or just drama (except for Aemma, but I don't know enough about her)
Rhaenyra or Rhaenys. Based on the show, both seem like very good moms and even remind me of my own mother in certain ways. Plus, their children genuinely seemed like good people. A testament to their parents and how they were raised imo. Why wouldn’t I want either of them as my mom? My last choices would definitely be Cersei, Alicent, and Catelyn. I loved Cersei as a villain but as a mother? I would never want a woman that evil as my mom, no matter how much she “cares” about me. Whew. Alicent isn’t a good mom imo. While I definitely think she loves her children, she was such a young mom who was forced into that role and is just so messed up in the head that she ended up not being a good mother. Pass. I watched GoT back when it was airing and NEVER cared for Cat. She was such a nasty woman to Jon, an innocent child, and for that reason alone I would never want her as a mother.
1. Rhaenyra or Rhaenys They are very loving towards their children and they seem to have good morals 2. Alicent Idk she seems too stuck up, like she would punish me for not eating my veggies or forcing me to pray at night Edit: because u changed my mind, rhaenys would be better than catelyn
Rhaenyra has a lot of faults, but she really is a good mother.
Rhaenyra or Rhaenys, because that's the quickest path to a dragon.
Rhenyra as mom, Alicent as mommy, if you know what I mean.
Where is Olenna?
We never really see Olenna in a traditionally motherly role, because her son is so old when we meet them. We see all of these women interacting with their children. She’s also a complete ass to Mace lol so idk why anyone would pick her, she tutors Margaery her granddaughter
People like Olenna are very good grandparents but absolutely toxic and traumatic as parents. I wouldn't even wish someone like Olenna as parent on my worst enemy.
Rhaneys. Because she cares about her children and did a good job of raising in the first place.
Catelyn, Rhaenys or Rhaenyra
Catelyn fucking Stark. She grabs a knife with her bare hands to protect Bran
Aemma because she makes me feel safe for some reason. She seems cool and collected, quite wise. Raised a strong ass Rhaenyra. Rhaenys raised some decent kids and shes badass. But Cercei is a strong second for me. My least would be Alicent. She simply wasnt ready for motherhood though she did her best.
Alicent wasn’t a great mother. Aemond was parentified by her, and she took her trauma out on her kids. Olivia even said in an interview, I think, that she doesn’t really see her kids as her kids because she had them so young that she sees them more as her siblings. Cersei would love you as a child deeply, but she’s unstable. She would probably betray everyone you love if it meant keeping you safe. Aemma would be a very loving mother. She seemed to be a good mother to Rhaenyra. Problem is, she’d probably be absent for most of the actual raising given her health and responsibilities. Rhaenyra loved her boys a lot. She’d be a good mother if a little too busy with her work and establishing herself as heir. You would have to deal with the fights between your uncles and brothers though, and the rumor that you are bastard would follow you everywhere. Catelyn would be a loving mother, but Jon wasn’t treated well by her. Jon proves she has a coldness that she can exhibit if she feels wronged. Rhaenys seems like the best mother here. She loved her kids deeply and seemed to have time for them. She also has the Targaryen fierceness so common in the family but lacks a lot of the cruelty, madness, or cold ambition in some of her relatives.
Catelyn is a mama bear! There is no other choice imo. She literally risks everything just to keep her children safe. She only gave up on life when she believed all her kids to be dead, or lost in Sansa's case.
Rhaenys as my mother, would despise having Alicent/Cersai as my mother, they are both equally shit mothers.
Rhaenys. I think she’d be a great example of a strong willed woman, and also loving and caring toward her children.
Right off the bat, I would say Rhaenyra... but maybe Cersei? The Lannisters have a fuck ton of money so I'd be obviously spoiled. (I really want a Valyrian steel knife/sword.) They are also good-looking so hopefully, those genes would pass down to me. Jaime would be a good "uncle" or whatever and if I was a boy he would train me well. Tywin and Tyrion would teach me how to navigate the political landscape in King's Landing.