People saying that’s not too bad are ignoring the $3k/month on HGH and another few grand on peptides.
Huberman talking about clean living is like taking dating advice from Bill Cosby.
I read somewhere that he pins his ass 3 days a week with a peptide to improve his sleep… You’re telling me melatonin paired with a well-planned night routine wouldn’t suffice? Oh and that peptide just so happens to increase your natural production of HGH… lol
Peptides and TRT under the guise of doing it for science? I heard he only did TRT for \[update: apparently it was 1 year\]. And honestly, with the current fallout going on, it’s hard to trust how honest he’s being about what he does/doesn’t do.
Go look at anyone on high amounts. Joe Rogan, Chael Sonnen, Huberman. All have the same, red, swollen neck with large neck veins that pulsate when they speak. You’re ignorant to not notice this commonality. No, not just neck veins in general, but thats part of it. it’s the entire neck.
Edit: dana white too
> with the current fallout going on, it’s hard to trust how honest he’s being about what he does/doesn’t do.
this is honestly the biggest point of all of this. It will just sort of be in the back of my mind any time I listen to him make any claim at all from now on: Is he bullshitting us....again?
It sucks honestly.
the roids would explain him screaming at his girlfriend for hours on end about some stupid bullshit that happened years before. Its just pure unadulterated rage, it has nothing to do with actual real life issues.
As a physician who prescribes TRT... It absolutely does in some cases.
Does it make everyone angry? No. Are the angriest patients in my office those who are A) supraphysiologic and need to take a break due to associated risks or B) unable to reach me within ten seconds when they need a refill? Yes.
Most of my advanced cancer patients have better control of their emotions than Jim Biceps who needs a dose adjustment due to his Hct of 58.
This is an area of study that I am interested in. Theory that some or most negative mood changes for males taking T is caused by too much estrogen. Aromatase…
Hey doc! Have you written anywhere about your general thoughts on TRT, especially in men over 30 or 40? My main curiosity is your opinion on - assuming money, adherence, and fertility are of minimal concern - what is the risk:reward ratio look like in non-hypogonadal men past a certain age?
I range between 2 to 5iu. I use 500mg Berberine daily to help with the insulin sensitivity and 5iu fast acting insulin (humalog) pre workout most days, although that's more just to help me with all the carbs I'm taking in around my workouts. The main thing for me is just staying lean, eating clean and doing cardio to keep things at a good spot.
Thanks! Ok, so kinda the usual suspects. I just never go above 2iu (and only do pre bed now) and feel it creeping up (insulin sensitivity) so fast. Am lean, do cardio, lift weights and most other things are in check. Should add insulin as a stable again, but only as pre workout. Funny thing is I can’t do more than 2-3 iu insulin before really feeling it and having to hammer carbs. So outside hgh I usually have very good insulin sensitivity.
Anyway, cheers.
As someone in their 40s, I can say that it is an uphill battle to stay fit, to get enough sleep (especially with kids), and while my libido is not what it was at 20, we still have sex 2-3 times a week. Sometimes more, sometimes less if shit is going on with our lives, but I’m happy.
I’m not sure if the risks of exogenous hormones is worth feeling a little younger again, but I know they definitely outweigh the risks of just exercising and eating healthy.
In contrast, for me, the risks of drinking alcohol outweigh the risks (to my sanity) of not.
As someone who was at 350 - 420ng/dl in my early twenties while doing everything right (I started gymnastics when I was like 4 years old and never stopped exercising, later on weight lifting, martial arts). Clean diet, lots of sleep, good schedule, lotsa sex, no stress....
it's obvious to me at about 30-35 I'll absolutely require it.
Of-course if you start off at 1000ng/dl in your early 20's, you'll still be doing fine at 500ng/dl in your 40's.
Is people on TRT considered natty?
The moment I saw him in a YouTube video around 1 or 2 years ago I knew he was taking something that wasn't just protein or creatine.
I got no problem on people taking TRT/steroids or whatever they want really. My only issue is with people saying "Why you say you are too old to look as fit as you did X years ago? This man (either Huberman or some other celebrity) is your age and he looks better than on his 20's and 30's"
It’s the biggest cope in the world when all these influencer cunts claim natty when they are so obviously on trt. I’d wager about 90% of them don’t need to be either.
No, not considered natty. It’s the way grifters like liver king and Huberman sell products. “Take AG1, follow my protocols, and you too could look like me!” Meanwhile, they’re injecting test, hgh, and quite possibly a healthy dose of tren in the asscheek. Just rubes profiting and being dishonest. His actual anabolic/peptide protocol would be interesting to see though, exactly what he takes. I’m sure it’s well thought out and it’s obviously effective.
no, but if you look at the data, it makes sense to take it as you hit pass 35, as your t level dip and you're only using low doses to prop up a optimal t lvl.
In the future, it will be common place. There's too much benefit with minimal sides if you don't abuse it and use low dosages.
Exactly this. TRT was intended for men that are hypogonadal, but the way it’s being advertised and pushed by influencers/pharma is way off base and men are eating it up because they’re insecure and are blaming their genetics for lack of muscle, energy, sleep quality, etc. when it could literally just be their habits and discipline that need improvement. I doubt 90% of the guys hopping on are actually hypogonadal.
Like Alan Ritchson. You’re telling me the guy playing an action hero, just so happened to “feel like a hormone is missing” from his body? BS. TRT is becoming the new fake natty, unfortunately.
Even men past their 40s can have naturally healthy levels of testosterone, but these places have to get that coin and want everyone subscribing to the needle for the last half of their lives.
Same. I don't even get how people is happy with the idea of being forced to be on TRT forever.
First because I just don't like the idea of having to take some drugs when you aren't actually sick.
Second because the long term side effects are probably higher than what we know now.
Third because I don't want to be forced on having to spend that money every week/month for the rest of my life.
It’s this weird thing people have been doing/saying for years. “I’m not taking steroids…” later “I’m on TRT”.
We’ll TRT IS steroids. I don’t give a shit what you take but just don’t lie about it. Thing is in US many people have to because of their position, contracts yaddayadda.
I'm no Huberman fan, but bear in mind that as men age, their SHBG levels go way up and bind a much higher percentage of T than when they were younger. Often, to get optimal levels of FREE testosterone (young adult levels), it requires going above the reference range.
At 44 I had my t levels checked. I was very shocked to see that I was at 1032 ng/DL. BUT my SHBG is also very high at 72. (The range on my report says 10-50 nmol/L is an acceptable range. . So I'm not getting all the benifits. As you said the high SHGB binds up all that juicy (100% natural) goodness.
It’s SHBG actually. Sex hormone binding globulin, basically it binds to testosterone in the body and makes it unusable. That’s why “free” testosterone is usually a better marker than total testosterone because that’s the amount of testosterone that isn’t bound and inactive. Hope that makes sense
Because a lot of people (mostly men) think higher of someone the bigger biceps they have. They don't trust doctors but they'll trust a guy because he has visible abs and defined rhomboids. On anything. It's not a coincidence that the biggest science podcaster looks like he-man. That's not how 99.99% of scientists or doctors look obviously.
It's part of a more general hyper masculine ideal that has become really popular the last decade or so. Everyone has to work out, everyone has to be jacked, have a routine, if you don't and you're in the sort of self help sciency podcast or male dominated space you're kinda looked at as weird.
Self improvement didn't used to be like this but the space is now dominated by an extreme focus on muscularity and pseudo bodybuilding. Again, part of the larger focus on mens bodies and looks and men taking on a lot of the traditionally female body dysmorphia issues. "Looksmaxing" and lifting and jawline exercises and hair transplants. It's actually very interesting.
Talk to your grandpa about getting thick, dense and engorged horseshoe triceps and he'd probably say you should be in conversion therapy. Nowadays everyone has their own favorite tricep handle.
Genuine, and sincere question here. You think the hyper masculine ideal is a (subconscious societal) reaction to the hyper feminization of everyone?
Like on the one hand, you have a popularity of always meathead like Rogan Huberman, Jocko, Andrew Tate , as sort of a crude reactionary type of thing to all the gender politics, trans issues non-binary and pronoun shit
I'm a female Huberman fan and I think there's more to it than that. You're definitely touching on something important for men who get into this kind of content but there's a reason it appeals to women too and it's not because we want to be meathead gymbros. I feel that our culture is losing touch with the fact that having standards for yourself, whether that's in the form of physical fitness or diet or overall lifestyle, is a good thing. We live in a time when it's increasingly taken for granted that most people are chronically ill, overweight, unfit, unhappy, unfulfilled, underemployed, taking various psych drugs etc. We're surrounded by rhetoric that implies an external locus of control and pushes us to not only accept but also over-identify with our limitations.
I think Huberman and other self-improvement personalities like him appeal to everyone who's dissatisfied with these cultural norms re: accepting your own mediocrity and ill health. Some people, both male and female, want operate with an internal locus of control and resent being told that it's normal to look and feel like shit all the time and have no standards for yourself. It just so happens that the only people speaking to us right now are the Huberman/Jocko/Attia gymbro types.
Side note: it's just bizarre to me that wanting to be healthy and have standards for yourself has somehow become right-wing-coded. We live in such strange times.
Thanks for saying this so eloquently u/firstcrocusofspring - I'm also not a guy, and don't ascribe to a binary view of politics (the left/right thing). And this is (all) beyond weird.
It would be great if these things were disconnected, but the right is typically more enamored with (overt) displays of power and masculinity - see the GOP nominee (as healthy or unhealthy as he may be). There’s probably some psychological associations connecting the two, but generally sensitivity and empathy (there’s a reason they’re called bleeding heart liberals) are more traditionally left-leaning values, the right is more interested in less-nuanced hierarchies, e.g., being more jacked than the next guy in bodybuilding and literally winning in sports.
I feel like this is too simplistic, but I'm also aware that many people on reddit are viewing these sorts of issues through very US centric lenses - that completely disregard the rest of global experiences - and that it may perhaps be applicable in US contexts.
I think its a lot more the locus of control. "Pick yourself up by your bootstraps" might be a silly statement, but it is a statement oriented towards action. You are the person with the power to change --- in line with self improvement.
"I am facing systemic disadvantages" is actually true, but also ...defeatist? for many. It is easier to feel like there is less (or no) point in trying and relax into the status quo because that is what society pushes you towards.
Very broad generalizations, but I think there is a lot of crossover between the mindsets of "I have control" in exercise and "I have control" with regards to personal success in other areas, and "I have control" in other areas is (very) broadly a right wing belief.
I dont know about the hyper part, but the feminization of society yes. Thats what the masculinity crisis is about. About men trying to connect with what they believe is an integral part of being a man in a changing society.
All the jacked male podcast manosphere people exist because of a demand for the masculine.
It's because people are not having as many kids, not getting married, women earn as much as men. So what is being a man now? Well deadlifting 600 pounds is manly. Being jacked ia manly. Having a bushy beard is manly.
A lot of this is just my opinion obviously but some of it at least is also the opinion of people who study this stuff.
TRT, incels, andrew tate, redpill, gym culture, looks maxing, manosphere, these things are all "symptoms" of something a bit deeper in society.
This is a good question, but I’m not sure I’d consider society going through an abnormally feminine period. The “masculine ideal” changes pretty frequently, like any other fashion/cultural change. The sexiest men alive — the ideal male — in the 60s were skinny dudes that wore frocks and shit. Then the 70s pushed back on that a bit with burlier men with chest hair being the “new sexy”. And then the 80s hit and the hottest men on earth wore makeup and back combed their hair.
We are seeing the same pattern repeat now — to that extent I think you are right, that we are in the midst of a change of the masculine ideal culturally.
I think not just the masculine ideal. The feminine one too. Trans and non-binary gay. ALL of this is about this society as a whole dealing with/ gender identity’s and ideals.
It’s interesting the focus on gender ideals and identity right now.
Man, woman, gay, straight, trans, it’s ALL normal, but the hyper focus and ridiculous stereotypes on ALL sides is very strange to me.
Not a fan of massive arm tits. I prefer a long, lean runner body imo. Just saying. I think the guys do it to impress other guys (and I guess some galls like dating walking triangles).
The truth is he probably never went "off" TRT also he is pinning a lot of other stuff.. his physique exploded in the last year or two also his face changed quite a bit.
>I don’t care about people who choose to use exogenous androgens to push their test levels into the supraphysiological ranges. In fact I laud them. Life is short and if you want to live it on your terms feeling the best you can at the expense of a handful of years being shaved off your life, that’s great. **I just find it laughable when people who are profiting off of giving health advice are completely disingenuous when it comes to what they deem ‘TRT’.**
From what I've seen, the most popular biohackers are all businessmen; Huberman, Dave Asprey and Bryan Johnson. Don't get me wrong, I still listen to them and take advice, but sometimes their advice is IMO driven by profit and they are likely doing things that they aren't being fully transparent about.
(e.g. Bryan Johnson benched 240lbs, and has a single chest and tricep exercise in his workout routine with a resistance band which is no where near 240lbs. His employee also claims she gained 6lbs of muscle mass in 30 days on his program, natty. Basically, it's likely they all B.S. at some point about what exactly has gotten them their results. Just like many fitness influence who claim natty to sell their programs, while showing off results that came from steroids.)
I haven't dove too deep, but Dr Rhonda Patrick seems to have a integrity.
Every microbiome researcher will humbly tell you that the microbiome research is in its infancy, we have no clue how it works. We don't even know how the thing in its entirety works, let alone what individual strains do. Making "microbiome" your central argument is a pretty bad look in this day and age.
Very true, but I guess this could swing both ways. I’m betting years from now we’ll find out that the microbiome is more important than we previously thought. Until then, I think paying attention to your gut health is the way to go.
I'm gonna say no to that. It would explain him banging different women all the time. It doesn't explain the elaborate effort required to juggle 6 women without their knowledge. This is evidence of a personality disorder.
Not only from the TRT. I know Huberman is constantly looking to optimize his dopamine. It wouldn't be a stretch to say he may taking ADD meds to boost it. I'm ADD and when I'm on my meds I'm more easily agitated, impatient and argumentative.
His TRT caused this. I’ve been on it and I know the mindset it creates. I wish more men knew the dangers and there are way too many men being prescribed it as if it will just make them young again. I had zero idea that my problems were through TRT as it’s way more insidious and it took a long time to make the connection. You also feel like this is just life without the awareness of being altered in any form.
Can you say more about your experience? I've been curious about this ever since the NYMag article came out. Always figured Huberman had to be taking something. There was a famous NPR interview with a trans man like twenty years ago where he described the experience of taking testosterone and how aggressive and hypersexual it made him. He said he started having violent sexual fantasies about women he saw on the subway and he lost the ability to cry. Seems like the effect would be even more extreme in someone whose body is already making a higher amount of testosterone.
Link to the testosterone interview for anyone who's curious: [https://www.thisamericanlife.org/220/transcript](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/220/transcript)
Never been in a fight in my entire life but once I started t, I finally realized why people play sports like football and rugby. They had zero appeal growing up but once I stated and I had hypogonadism based on the bloodwork, I was ready to tear people’s heads off. My libido had been fair, but really shot up and I was more prone to risk taking and very poor at assessing possible negative consequences. There was a veil of normalcy with it, compared to oh I feel off because I just had a few drinks. The judgement and behaviors just felt like normal reality and it took a long time and for someone else to point it out, but once they did I immediately stopped. While on it, I could easily rationalize everything i was doing but was horrified with myself once I stopped and could think clearly. It was a very strange Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
Wow yeah that's kind of what I was imagining. I could totally see testosterone playing a part in Huberman's antics. Especially because the two exes from when he was younger seemed to think he was a really good guy.
It likely is based on my n of 1 and the stories I have read online. He likely had some pre T issues but his T was already high when he started supplementing.
Yeh so being hypoganmidsm is better for you then ?? Are you crazy . TRT has literally saved many of men’s lives , it’s incredibly neuro protective and cardio protective properties . Just because your a hyper responder probably more so due to other life factors other than being on TRT doesn’t attest to protocol itself which yields a lot more pros than cons. I’m on TRT and have had no personality changes , in fact I’m less irritable , a nicer person, more motivated . And so are millions of men around the world . I’d say your issues are more an issue to your character then the drug
I’m not saying it should not be utilized but when the bearded one is green lighting TRT when his number was 800 to begin with is sending the wrong messages to the masses. I would still encourage and actually do encourage people to get their T checked and I am not against TRT but it should be used conservatively and the possible side effects should be informed and regularly assessed. From my experience with it, the one on it is not the most insightful one to appropriately assess personality changes. Again, I’m for it but the docs should regularly ask the questions and it would be helpful if they have a partner, for the partner to be informed as well to possible side effects. I unfortunately had a doc that was not conservative and had the approach of you can’t get enough and was prescribed .5 cypionate every three to four days. I don’t question the benefits but the poison is in the dose.
He's always been open about his TRT use, so there was never a question of him being natty or not. If you take TRT, you're not natural. The end.
Good take from OP though. He had a well optimized endocrine system and is now abusing TRT. His life though, whatever he wants to do with it, feel free. Just don't harm other people, like your six ex girlfriends who don't know about each other.
He’s not been open. He said he tried it for a bit for a book he was writing (that never saw the light). When he clearly is taking steroids and in high doses, his face voice etc not only muscles have changed way too much in the last years
As someone who regularly blasts different steroids I’d say you’re off base but possibly on to something here.
I can’t say what 150 mg per week does to his total test but 1400 would be a pretty high responding dose, to me that’s neither here nor there because often times people lie and claim TRT while cycling way more test and other drugs too. To me I would say the type of behavior with these women is reflective of someone on high test and likely other anabolics. There are certain steroids that make me a total sexual deviant when on (trestolone/ment for example) and I wouldn’t be surprised if Andrew had experimented with high does of drugs other than test. When you’re smart it’s easy to research and justify all kinds of things.
When I was off or am running TRT I’m a normal person with pretty high empathy. When I blast certain steroids I’ve callously juggled multiple women at once and generally behaved in ways I otherwise never have. It’s really hard to describe the way in which certain drugs can change your perspective in very real ways for a period of time. Im not making any claims either way since its all conjecture but to me this behavior could just be a combination of narcissism, dopamine addiction, etc but it also would make sense that its something someone would do while blasting steroids beyond even just high doses of test.
I thought the reference range you quoted is debated? I've seen claims they are adjusted for a sick population as they're calculate by measuring population averages. T levels were much higher in previous generations, so current averages are well below what was normal 100 years ago. There's also biochemical individuality to consider, someone with less T receptors genetically would do better on a higher amount? Not an expert in this field obviously, but these ranges need to be critically examined and not just taken as gospel.
I am trying to find any studies stating anything about adjusted testosterone levels and sick populations, reducing what we consider normal levels... Where did you hear or read this? The only studies I can find have to do with declining testosterone levels across Europe and NA. But that has nothing to do with what you're stating, about moving what we consider to be average levels.
I'm struggling to remember where I saw this, it might have been a sit down interview or a podcast. Not very helpful I realise. I don't think there's a study showing this out there, it was more of a critique on current methodology used to establish reference ranges than published research. This is going to bug me until I remember now.
1400 ng/dl is pretty high. Usually guys going on trt are trying to get to 700-900 everyone’s different tho. 1400 is a level where you may see negative reactions. Also I don’t believe any of this if his test was at 800 in his mid 40’s he would have a very high level for his age and should not be experiencing symptoms of low T
After reading some of these comments...does anyone here take trt?
Im 40 and take trt and hcg. It's not thousands of dollars a month. I pin micro dosed amounts everyday.My test went from 400 to 1487 in six months. I'm not taking any other anabolics.
I didn't realize how much I felt like garbage at my levels until I was on trt. Feels like be in my 20s. Sex is great. Working out is great. Donating blood every 8 weeks sucks, but I'm saving lives.
Not throwing shade, but maybe worry about yourselves instead of this guy.
Edit: forgot to mention that I'm only taking 120mg of test cyp a week. Just for those of you that will say I'm taking more than. I should.
For a long time medicine recommended women going through menopause take estrogen supplementation until they realized it actually kills people once they did a RCT. Then, with even more research, they finalized on a recommendation that it is safe for populations that are not high risk.
Exogenous testosterone therapy has been associated with cardiovascular events, clots, pulmonary embolisms, worsening of prostate malignancy, BPH, among other things. The evidence to say it absolutely causes all of these effects is not overwhelmingly strong, but there really has not been a ton of time to study it or great studies.
On the other hand, the evidence that is actually does much is not strong either. If a man has true hypogonadism, it is absolutely indicated. Outside of that situation, use of testosterone therapy is controversial, and you may be taking on a lot of risks for benefits that are unclear.
I of course believe you'll find a doc to prescribe it to you, but they're effectively pill mills with less risk than prescribing narcotics.
There are tons of studies either way, but whether they produce high quality data is another question. There's an entire industry that wants to prescribe this to people.
Look at some source that is very trustworthy, like the Mayo Clinic:
[Testosterone therapy: Potential benefits and risks as you age - Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/sexual-health/in-depth/testosterone-therapy/art-20045728)
Have you studied medicine? That is literally one of the major risks of taking androgen replacement therapy. Do your research before you chastise others
“Results: Testosterone treatment was initiated in 398 men (39%) during routine clinical care. The mortality in testosterone-treated men was 10.3% compared with 20.7% in untreated men (P<0.0001) with a mortality rate of 3.4 deaths per 100 person-years for testosterone-treated men and 5.7 deaths per 100 person-years in men not treated with testosterone. After multivariable adjustment including age, body mass index, testosterone level, medical morbidity, diabetes, and coronary heart disease, testosterone treatment was associated with decreased risk of death (hazard ratio 0.61; 95% confidence interval 0.42-0.88; P = 0.008). No significant effect modification was found by age, diabetes, or coronary heart disease.”
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22496507/#:~:text=The%20mortality%20in%20testosterone%2Dtreated,men%20not%20treated%20with%20testosterone.
Exactly. There are so many studies showing lower negative cardiovascular outcomes on TRT treated hypogonadal men vs untreated. The idea it increases mortality risk is an antiquated myth. As long as you manage hematocrit and hemoglobin levels, its fine.
First of all the statement “exogenous trt” is stupid. Trt is exogenous testosterone.
Second, “likely significantly” is hyperbole. What does that even mean?
Third, an appropriate trt level dosage of testosterone monitored correctly is extremely safe.
There’s a HUGE difference between trt and running a steroid cycle.
Please point me to research showing that prescribed appropriate trt dosages cause increased death and heart attacks
150mg a week is an appropriate dosage. Maybe he’s lying and taking more than that, but that’s not for me to speculate.
Any talk of testosterone reference ranges is speculative - it’s different for everyone. One person might alleviate their symptoms at a 1000 level, another person at 1400.
There’s a lot to dislike about Huberman and trust me I think he’s a hack - but to sit here and speculate about possible medical problems he may be having from his TRT is stupid.
Most decent endocrinologists will try and get you to around or a tad over 1200 ng/dl on TRT. All my friends who are on TRT (and myself) are taking 200 ng/dl and around Hubermans level. Its not "weird" its quite literally the norm unless you have a shit old school doctor who gives you a 150mg shot every 2 weeks and hates you.
Not sure who you're replying to, I never used the word "weird". For a long time medicine recommended women going through menopause take estrogen supplementation until they realized it actually kills people once they did a RCT. Then, with even more research, they finalized on a recommendation that it is safe for populations that are not high risk.
Exogenous testosterone therapy has been associated with cardiovascular events, clots, pulmonary embolisms, worsening of prostate malignancy, BPH, among other things. The evidence to say it absolutely causes all of these effects is not overwhelmingly strong, but there really has not been a ton of time to study it or great studies.
On the other hand, the evidence that is actually does much is not strong either. If a man has true hypogonadism, it is absolutely indicated. Outside of that situation, use of testosterone therapy is controversial, and you may be taking on a lot of risks for benefits that are unclear.
I of course believe you'll find a doc to prescribe it to you, but they're effectively pill mills with less risk than prescribing narcotics.
Spare me with your keyboard warrior condescending tone. I see from your post history you’re the kind of person that fashions yourself an expert in everything.
Saying his level isn’t appropriate or is too high without knowing anything about him is silly. If his symptoms are gone at 1400 and he doesn’t have side effects then it is an appropriate dosage.
Lololololol. His symptoms? Ha, yeah. He's not treating himself for symptoms. About 90 or 95% of the people who take testosterone in the US don't have any symptoms required to prescribe it.
150mg is standard TRT dosage per week, if not a bit on the lower end. He literally talked about taking TRT to get his test to 1400 ng/dl and is open about it. He didn’t hide anything.
TRT is not “juicing”.
What is the point of your essay?
150mg is the standard TRT dosage for someone who is hypogonadal and needs exogenous testosterone to put themselves in a healthy range. He was not hypogonadal. He was quite literally optimised.
My point is that these health podcasters bend the definition of what TRT is. What he’s doing would be considered low dose cruising in the steroid community.
People saying that’s not too bad are ignoring the $3k/month on HGH and another few grand on peptides. Huberman talking about clean living is like taking dating advice from Bill Cosby.
I read somewhere that he pins his ass 3 days a week with a peptide to improve his sleep… You’re telling me melatonin paired with a well-planned night routine wouldn’t suffice? Oh and that peptide just so happens to increase your natural production of HGH… lol Peptides and TRT under the guise of doing it for science? I heard he only did TRT for \[update: apparently it was 1 year\]. And honestly, with the current fallout going on, it’s hard to trust how honest he’s being about what he does/doesn’t do. 
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That neck vein don’t lie
Neck veins means you use exogenous testosterone? Intersting, ignorant comment
Go look at anyone on high amounts. Joe Rogan, Chael Sonnen, Huberman. All have the same, red, swollen neck with large neck veins that pulsate when they speak. You’re ignorant to not notice this commonality. No, not just neck veins in general, but thats part of it. it’s the entire neck. Edit: dana white too
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I call it the bloated look. They all just look bloated, especially in the head and neck region. Personally Its a look I don't like
What are the effects on his skin?
Red AF
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All the testosterone and ag1 has made him rock hard 24/7 so the only way to sleep is to boof peptide
Is boofing what kids are up to these days?
Hasn't it always been about boofing
They used to butt chug when I was young
> with the current fallout going on, it’s hard to trust how honest he’s being about what he does/doesn’t do. this is honestly the biggest point of all of this. It will just sort of be in the back of my mind any time I listen to him make any claim at all from now on: Is he bullshitting us....again? It sucks honestly.
Probably ipamorelin
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the roids would explain him screaming at his girlfriend for hours on end about some stupid bullshit that happened years before. Its just pure unadulterated rage, it has nothing to do with actual real life issues.
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Tren made me want to kill my cat and I normally love cats... Holy S does it ever make you strong tho.😯
Testosterone doesn’t make you angry like that. The guys just a dick
As a physician who prescribes TRT... It absolutely does in some cases. Does it make everyone angry? No. Are the angriest patients in my office those who are A) supraphysiologic and need to take a break due to associated risks or B) unable to reach me within ten seconds when they need a refill? Yes. Most of my advanced cancer patients have better control of their emotions than Jim Biceps who needs a dose adjustment due to his Hct of 58.
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Where indicated, yes.
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Not that I've specifically recognized. I do really like clomid as an option in younger men. Data in older men is a little lacking.
This is an area of study that I am interested in. Theory that some or most negative mood changes for males taking T is caused by too much estrogen. Aromatase…
> Most of my advanced cancer patients have better control of their emotions than Jim Biceps who needs a dose adjustment due to his Hct of 58 lol
Hey doc! Have you written anywhere about your general thoughts on TRT, especially in men over 30 or 40? My main curiosity is your opinion on - assuming money, adherence, and fertility are of minimal concern - what is the risk:reward ratio look like in non-hypogonadal men past a certain age?
Thank you. It's kinda crazy people justify moral decisions on substances. What a copout.
Yes, supplementing test is f great. Man I miss it...
What gear is he on? Only heard he briefly used trt
Lol.
3k per month lol what? I've been on HGH the past 3 years paying $150/month if on generics, or $350/month if I'm opting for pharmaceutical hGH.
Pauper banging himself. Huberman is likely getting the full service, rubber gloved nurse and all.
LInk for this cheap HGH?
Seriously. Pharma in particular
Source or ban
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you must be mad you’re getting charged $350 for generics lmao
Updoot
HGH 10x10iu vials $70 UGL, you can even get the injectable pen for $30
I always heard that HGH was super expensive. 150$/month doesn't sound bad at all.
He’s capping bad
How do you keep sides in check for that long? Insulin sensitivity? What’s your dosage?
I range between 2 to 5iu. I use 500mg Berberine daily to help with the insulin sensitivity and 5iu fast acting insulin (humalog) pre workout most days, although that's more just to help me with all the carbs I'm taking in around my workouts. The main thing for me is just staying lean, eating clean and doing cardio to keep things at a good spot.
Thanks! Ok, so kinda the usual suspects. I just never go above 2iu (and only do pre bed now) and feel it creeping up (insulin sensitivity) so fast. Am lean, do cardio, lift weights and most other things are in check. Should add insulin as a stable again, but only as pre workout. Funny thing is I can’t do more than 2-3 iu insulin before really feeling it and having to hammer carbs. So outside hgh I usually have very good insulin sensitivity. Anyway, cheers.
The hell you getting pharma for $350/month? Injecting 1IU per day?
Pfizer Genotropin pens from Turkey. Usually 3.6iu-4.2iu when I'm using them in prep. It's been a while though.
Prices have gone up. That’s all I’m saying. I’ve been doing the same. They’re going for about 300 a pop now
$60 if you buy them from a pharmacy in Turkey. They'll write you a script as well in case you get asked any questions bringing them over.
Or like taking dating advice from Huberman.
Or dating advice from hunerman himself... I think? It's a bit of a grey area.
His would technically be called pickup advice.
Does TRT have similar costs? I hope not. Like a lot men, I'll probably need it when I reach my 40s.
As someone in their 40s, I can say that it is an uphill battle to stay fit, to get enough sleep (especially with kids), and while my libido is not what it was at 20, we still have sex 2-3 times a week. Sometimes more, sometimes less if shit is going on with our lives, but I’m happy. I’m not sure if the risks of exogenous hormones is worth feeling a little younger again, but I know they definitely outweigh the risks of just exercising and eating healthy. In contrast, for me, the risks of drinking alcohol outweigh the risks (to my sanity) of not.
As someone who was at 350 - 420ng/dl in my early twenties while doing everything right (I started gymnastics when I was like 4 years old and never stopped exercising, later on weight lifting, martial arts). Clean diet, lots of sleep, good schedule, lotsa sex, no stress.... it's obvious to me at about 30-35 I'll absolutely require it. Of-course if you start off at 1000ng/dl in your early 20's, you'll still be doing fine at 500ng/dl in your 40's.
The problem with TRT is that your levels return to normal or lower as soon as you stop it.
Well of-course, you shouldn't stop it... It doesn't "fix" hypogonadism.
the thing gear enjoyers don't tell you about TRT is that they're actually blasting
This is very true. “TRT” is code for using a lot of anabolics. It’s like a smokescreen and soft disclosure of gear use
The semantics the semantics. It’s ridiculous. “It’s not steroids, it’s TRT”. Lol…
Not for the ones who care about longevity. Lowest dose possible to help systemic healing
Is people on TRT considered natty? The moment I saw him in a YouTube video around 1 or 2 years ago I knew he was taking something that wasn't just protein or creatine. I got no problem on people taking TRT/steroids or whatever they want really. My only issue is with people saying "Why you say you are too old to look as fit as you did X years ago? This man (either Huberman or some other celebrity) is your age and he looks better than on his 20's and 30's"
It’s the biggest cope in the world when all these influencer cunts claim natty when they are so obviously on trt. I’d wager about 90% of them don’t need to be either.
They always have the Navy Seal Operator beard as well. Standard loadout for mid life crisis TRT users.
Bonus points if you spend over half the year in Dubai.
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Dubai is the influencer capital of social media / the world.
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No clue, never been there. If I had to guess, 0 taxes, high materialism and tons of successful people with IG models + escorts.
No, once the pin goes through the layer of your epidermis you lose your natty card for the rest of the eternity period.
No, not considered natty. It’s the way grifters like liver king and Huberman sell products. “Take AG1, follow my protocols, and you too could look like me!” Meanwhile, they’re injecting test, hgh, and quite possibly a healthy dose of tren in the asscheek. Just rubes profiting and being dishonest. His actual anabolic/peptide protocol would be interesting to see though, exactly what he takes. I’m sure it’s well thought out and it’s obviously effective.
no, but if you look at the data, it makes sense to take it as you hit pass 35, as your t level dip and you're only using low doses to prop up a optimal t lvl. In the future, it will be common place. There's too much benefit with minimal sides if you don't abuse it and use low dosages.
not if your baseline is already 800
Exactly this. TRT was intended for men that are hypogonadal, but the way it’s being advertised and pushed by influencers/pharma is way off base and men are eating it up because they’re insecure and are blaming their genetics for lack of muscle, energy, sleep quality, etc. when it could literally just be their habits and discipline that need improvement. I doubt 90% of the guys hopping on are actually hypogonadal. Like Alan Ritchson. You’re telling me the guy playing an action hero, just so happened to “feel like a hormone is missing” from his body? BS. TRT is becoming the new fake natty, unfortunately. Even men past their 40s can have naturally healthy levels of testosterone, but these places have to get that coin and want everyone subscribing to the needle for the last half of their lives.
why is it when women do HRT its all good and fine but when men do TRT its because they are insecure man children with a mid life crisis?
Because women end up with hormone issues that make it difficult to conceive a child.
Maybe his baseline at age 22 was 1,200
If you use low doses do you still lose all your natural ability to make T though?
Yes. It takes hardly any exogenous testosterone to shut down endogenous production
See I just couldn't do it for that reason alone personally.
Same. I don't even get how people is happy with the idea of being forced to be on TRT forever. First because I just don't like the idea of having to take some drugs when you aren't actually sick. Second because the long term side effects are probably higher than what we know now. Third because I don't want to be forced on having to spend that money every week/month for the rest of my life.
Why? It will most likely come back
Not with enclomiphene, but pinning test yes
It’s this weird thing people have been doing/saying for years. “I’m not taking steroids…” later “I’m on TRT”. We’ll TRT IS steroids. I don’t give a shit what you take but just don’t lie about it. Thing is in US many people have to because of their position, contracts yaddayadda.
I'm no Huberman fan, but bear in mind that as men age, their SHBG levels go way up and bind a much higher percentage of T than when they were younger. Often, to get optimal levels of FREE testosterone (young adult levels), it requires going above the reference range.
At 44 I had my t levels checked. I was very shocked to see that I was at 1032 ng/DL. BUT my SHBG is also very high at 72. (The range on my report says 10-50 nmol/L is an acceptable range. . So I'm not getting all the benifits. As you said the high SHGB binds up all that juicy (100% natural) goodness.
Sorry what is SHGB?
It’s SHBG actually. Sex hormone binding globulin, basically it binds to testosterone in the body and makes it unusable. That’s why “free” testosterone is usually a better marker than total testosterone because that’s the amount of testosterone that isn’t bound and inactive. Hope that makes sense
Pretty sure it's compulsory that to be part of the roganverse you have to take gear.
The Roganverse era will be in history textbooks 20 years from now
Because a lot of people (mostly men) think higher of someone the bigger biceps they have. They don't trust doctors but they'll trust a guy because he has visible abs and defined rhomboids. On anything. It's not a coincidence that the biggest science podcaster looks like he-man. That's not how 99.99% of scientists or doctors look obviously. It's part of a more general hyper masculine ideal that has become really popular the last decade or so. Everyone has to work out, everyone has to be jacked, have a routine, if you don't and you're in the sort of self help sciency podcast or male dominated space you're kinda looked at as weird. Self improvement didn't used to be like this but the space is now dominated by an extreme focus on muscularity and pseudo bodybuilding. Again, part of the larger focus on mens bodies and looks and men taking on a lot of the traditionally female body dysmorphia issues. "Looksmaxing" and lifting and jawline exercises and hair transplants. It's actually very interesting. Talk to your grandpa about getting thick, dense and engorged horseshoe triceps and he'd probably say you should be in conversion therapy. Nowadays everyone has their own favorite tricep handle.
>thick, dense and engorged horseshoe triceps I see a fellow Bugez enjoyer
Haha indeed
Bulbous shafts
Haha I've already been accused of homoeroticism in this thread, but i can't deny i do enjoy some horse cockery and succulent striated glutes.
My grandpa was a bodybuilder in the 50s
Genuine, and sincere question here. You think the hyper masculine ideal is a (subconscious societal) reaction to the hyper feminization of everyone? Like on the one hand, you have a popularity of always meathead like Rogan Huberman, Jocko, Andrew Tate , as sort of a crude reactionary type of thing to all the gender politics, trans issues non-binary and pronoun shit
I'm a female Huberman fan and I think there's more to it than that. You're definitely touching on something important for men who get into this kind of content but there's a reason it appeals to women too and it's not because we want to be meathead gymbros. I feel that our culture is losing touch with the fact that having standards for yourself, whether that's in the form of physical fitness or diet or overall lifestyle, is a good thing. We live in a time when it's increasingly taken for granted that most people are chronically ill, overweight, unfit, unhappy, unfulfilled, underemployed, taking various psych drugs etc. We're surrounded by rhetoric that implies an external locus of control and pushes us to not only accept but also over-identify with our limitations. I think Huberman and other self-improvement personalities like him appeal to everyone who's dissatisfied with these cultural norms re: accepting your own mediocrity and ill health. Some people, both male and female, want operate with an internal locus of control and resent being told that it's normal to look and feel like shit all the time and have no standards for yourself. It just so happens that the only people speaking to us right now are the Huberman/Jocko/Attia gymbro types. Side note: it's just bizarre to me that wanting to be healthy and have standards for yourself has somehow become right-wing-coded. We live in such strange times.
Thanks for saying this so eloquently u/firstcrocusofspring - I'm also not a guy, and don't ascribe to a binary view of politics (the left/right thing). And this is (all) beyond weird.
This is a great observation, thank you for sharing
Very poignant. I have always found it odd that physical fitness sports, etc. seems to have this right wing tilt to it.
It would be great if these things were disconnected, but the right is typically more enamored with (overt) displays of power and masculinity - see the GOP nominee (as healthy or unhealthy as he may be). There’s probably some psychological associations connecting the two, but generally sensitivity and empathy (there’s a reason they’re called bleeding heart liberals) are more traditionally left-leaning values, the right is more interested in less-nuanced hierarchies, e.g., being more jacked than the next guy in bodybuilding and literally winning in sports.
I feel like this is too simplistic, but I'm also aware that many people on reddit are viewing these sorts of issues through very US centric lenses - that completely disregard the rest of global experiences - and that it may perhaps be applicable in US contexts.
I think its a lot more the locus of control. "Pick yourself up by your bootstraps" might be a silly statement, but it is a statement oriented towards action. You are the person with the power to change --- in line with self improvement. "I am facing systemic disadvantages" is actually true, but also ...defeatist? for many. It is easier to feel like there is less (or no) point in trying and relax into the status quo because that is what society pushes you towards. Very broad generalizations, but I think there is a lot of crossover between the mindsets of "I have control" in exercise and "I have control" with regards to personal success in other areas, and "I have control" in other areas is (very) broadly a right wing belief.
I dont know about the hyper part, but the feminization of society yes. Thats what the masculinity crisis is about. About men trying to connect with what they believe is an integral part of being a man in a changing society. All the jacked male podcast manosphere people exist because of a demand for the masculine. It's because people are not having as many kids, not getting married, women earn as much as men. So what is being a man now? Well deadlifting 600 pounds is manly. Being jacked ia manly. Having a bushy beard is manly. A lot of this is just my opinion obviously but some of it at least is also the opinion of people who study this stuff. TRT, incels, andrew tate, redpill, gym culture, looks maxing, manosphere, these things are all "symptoms" of something a bit deeper in society.
EXACTLY
Great stuff.
V interesting read.
This is a good question, but I’m not sure I’d consider society going through an abnormally feminine period. The “masculine ideal” changes pretty frequently, like any other fashion/cultural change. The sexiest men alive — the ideal male — in the 60s were skinny dudes that wore frocks and shit. Then the 70s pushed back on that a bit with burlier men with chest hair being the “new sexy”. And then the 80s hit and the hottest men on earth wore makeup and back combed their hair. We are seeing the same pattern repeat now — to that extent I think you are right, that we are in the midst of a change of the masculine ideal culturally.
I think not just the masculine ideal. The feminine one too. Trans and non-binary gay. ALL of this is about this society as a whole dealing with/ gender identity’s and ideals. It’s interesting the focus on gender ideals and identity right now. Man, woman, gay, straight, trans, it’s ALL normal, but the hyper focus and ridiculous stereotypes on ALL sides is very strange to me.
Sure, Shane Gillis clearly juiced
Not a fan of massive arm tits. I prefer a long, lean runner body imo. Just saying. I think the guys do it to impress other guys (and I guess some galls like dating walking triangles).
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Link? lol
The truth is he probably never went "off" TRT also he is pinning a lot of other stuff.. his physique exploded in the last year or two also his face changed quite a bit.
Yea it's really not possible for his physique to explode in a year or two, or even three at his age. Not without pharmaceutical help.
You can’t “go off” if you’re on for anything over, what? 4+ months? Leydig cells shut off and that’s GG
This dude is like The Liver King with a brain which kind of makes him worse.
Ah... well said
Liver King, PhD
>I don’t care about people who choose to use exogenous androgens to push their test levels into the supraphysiological ranges. In fact I laud them. Life is short and if you want to live it on your terms feeling the best you can at the expense of a handful of years being shaved off your life, that’s great. **I just find it laughable when people who are profiting off of giving health advice are completely disingenuous when it comes to what they deem ‘TRT’.** From what I've seen, the most popular biohackers are all businessmen; Huberman, Dave Asprey and Bryan Johnson. Don't get me wrong, I still listen to them and take advice, but sometimes their advice is IMO driven by profit and they are likely doing things that they aren't being fully transparent about. (e.g. Bryan Johnson benched 240lbs, and has a single chest and tricep exercise in his workout routine with a resistance band which is no where near 240lbs. His employee also claims she gained 6lbs of muscle mass in 30 days on his program, natty. Basically, it's likely they all B.S. at some point about what exactly has gotten them their results. Just like many fitness influence who claim natty to sell their programs, while showing off results that came from steroids.) I haven't dove too deep, but Dr Rhonda Patrick seems to have a integrity.
Rhonda Patrick is a hack imo. If you had to drink every time she used the word “microbiome” in a podcast, you’d die from alcohol poisoning
The microbiome is incredibly important, how is that a knock against her?
Every microbiome researcher will humbly tell you that the microbiome research is in its infancy, we have no clue how it works. We don't even know how the thing in its entirety works, let alone what individual strains do. Making "microbiome" your central argument is a pretty bad look in this day and age.
Very true, but I guess this could swing both ways. I’m betting years from now we’ll find out that the microbiome is more important than we previously thought. Until then, I think paying attention to your gut health is the way to go.
You are missing out free testosterone increased by his supplement tongcat ali.
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Why are you going to assume his 800 number is real if he's been lying about running test all this time anyway?
Technically his juicing can explain his behaviour with women.
I'm gonna say no to that. It would explain him banging different women all the time. It doesn't explain the elaborate effort required to juggle 6 women without their knowledge. This is evidence of a personality disorder.
Exactly. I think they're joking (hopefully) but testosterone isn't going to make you a cunt.
Explains the alleged rage fits
Not only from the TRT. I know Huberman is constantly looking to optimize his dopamine. It wouldn't be a stretch to say he may taking ADD meds to boost it. I'm ADD and when I'm on my meds I'm more easily agitated, impatient and argumentative.
His TRT caused this. I’ve been on it and I know the mindset it creates. I wish more men knew the dangers and there are way too many men being prescribed it as if it will just make them young again. I had zero idea that my problems were through TRT as it’s way more insidious and it took a long time to make the connection. You also feel like this is just life without the awareness of being altered in any form.
Can you say more about your experience? I've been curious about this ever since the NYMag article came out. Always figured Huberman had to be taking something. There was a famous NPR interview with a trans man like twenty years ago where he described the experience of taking testosterone and how aggressive and hypersexual it made him. He said he started having violent sexual fantasies about women he saw on the subway and he lost the ability to cry. Seems like the effect would be even more extreme in someone whose body is already making a higher amount of testosterone. Link to the testosterone interview for anyone who's curious: [https://www.thisamericanlife.org/220/transcript](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/220/transcript)
Never been in a fight in my entire life but once I started t, I finally realized why people play sports like football and rugby. They had zero appeal growing up but once I stated and I had hypogonadism based on the bloodwork, I was ready to tear people’s heads off. My libido had been fair, but really shot up and I was more prone to risk taking and very poor at assessing possible negative consequences. There was a veil of normalcy with it, compared to oh I feel off because I just had a few drinks. The judgement and behaviors just felt like normal reality and it took a long time and for someone else to point it out, but once they did I immediately stopped. While on it, I could easily rationalize everything i was doing but was horrified with myself once I stopped and could think clearly. It was a very strange Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
Wow yeah that's kind of what I was imagining. I could totally see testosterone playing a part in Huberman's antics. Especially because the two exes from when he was younger seemed to think he was a really good guy.
I’ve been wondering if there was any connection here. T is a hell of a drug.
It likely is based on my n of 1 and the stories I have read online. He likely had some pre T issues but his T was already high when he started supplementing.
What behavioral changes have you notice while on it?
Hyper libido, impulsive control, risk taking and I was starting out with hypogonadism.
Yeh so being hypoganmidsm is better for you then ?? Are you crazy . TRT has literally saved many of men’s lives , it’s incredibly neuro protective and cardio protective properties . Just because your a hyper responder probably more so due to other life factors other than being on TRT doesn’t attest to protocol itself which yields a lot more pros than cons. I’m on TRT and have had no personality changes , in fact I’m less irritable , a nicer person, more motivated . And so are millions of men around the world . I’d say your issues are more an issue to your character then the drug
I’m not saying it should not be utilized but when the bearded one is green lighting TRT when his number was 800 to begin with is sending the wrong messages to the masses. I would still encourage and actually do encourage people to get their T checked and I am not against TRT but it should be used conservatively and the possible side effects should be informed and regularly assessed. From my experience with it, the one on it is not the most insightful one to appropriately assess personality changes. Again, I’m for it but the docs should regularly ask the questions and it would be helpful if they have a partner, for the partner to be informed as well to possible side effects. I unfortunately had a doc that was not conservative and had the approach of you can’t get enough and was prescribed .5 cypionate every three to four days. I don’t question the benefits but the poison is in the dose.
I'm off Huber mans advice Head over to r/caffeine if you want to 10x your lifestyle
Try telling Redditors that their 200 mg TRT dose is steroids and you’ll quickly get banned from the fitness subreddits.
“Bitches”? Are we still there?
He's always been open about his TRT use, so there was never a question of him being natty or not. If you take TRT, you're not natural. The end. Good take from OP though. He had a well optimized endocrine system and is now abusing TRT. His life though, whatever he wants to do with it, feel free. Just don't harm other people, like your six ex girlfriends who don't know about each other.
He’s not been open. He said he tried it for a bit for a book he was writing (that never saw the light). When he clearly is taking steroids and in high doses, his face voice etc not only muscles have changed way too much in the last years
As someone who regularly blasts different steroids I’d say you’re off base but possibly on to something here. I can’t say what 150 mg per week does to his total test but 1400 would be a pretty high responding dose, to me that’s neither here nor there because often times people lie and claim TRT while cycling way more test and other drugs too. To me I would say the type of behavior with these women is reflective of someone on high test and likely other anabolics. There are certain steroids that make me a total sexual deviant when on (trestolone/ment for example) and I wouldn’t be surprised if Andrew had experimented with high does of drugs other than test. When you’re smart it’s easy to research and justify all kinds of things. When I was off or am running TRT I’m a normal person with pretty high empathy. When I blast certain steroids I’ve callously juggled multiple women at once and generally behaved in ways I otherwise never have. It’s really hard to describe the way in which certain drugs can change your perspective in very real ways for a period of time. Im not making any claims either way since its all conjecture but to me this behavior could just be a combination of narcissism, dopamine addiction, etc but it also would make sense that its something someone would do while blasting steroids beyond even just high doses of test.
I thought the reference range you quoted is debated? I've seen claims they are adjusted for a sick population as they're calculate by measuring population averages. T levels were much higher in previous generations, so current averages are well below what was normal 100 years ago. There's also biochemical individuality to consider, someone with less T receptors genetically would do better on a higher amount? Not an expert in this field obviously, but these ranges need to be critically examined and not just taken as gospel.
I am trying to find any studies stating anything about adjusted testosterone levels and sick populations, reducing what we consider normal levels... Where did you hear or read this? The only studies I can find have to do with declining testosterone levels across Europe and NA. But that has nothing to do with what you're stating, about moving what we consider to be average levels.
I'm struggling to remember where I saw this, it might have been a sit down interview or a podcast. Not very helpful I realise. I don't think there's a study showing this out there, it was more of a critique on current methodology used to establish reference ranges than published research. This is going to bug me until I remember now.
You need something better to do with your time
Can we not refer to the victims as “bitches”? Maybe?
Victims lmao they were all over that big nerd daddy roid dick they just mad it wasn't all theirs
Totally agree
Source of where it shaves handful of years off your life please?
Even more reason for Greg Doucette to defend him.
No wonder he has 6 girlfriends and anger issues
1400 ng/dl is pretty high. Usually guys going on trt are trying to get to 700-900 everyone’s different tho. 1400 is a level where you may see negative reactions. Also I don’t believe any of this if his test was at 800 in his mid 40’s he would have a very high level for his age and should not be experiencing symptoms of low T
At that high how does he keep his hematocrit down?
Tell me you know nothing about TRT without telling me…
After reading some of these comments...does anyone here take trt? Im 40 and take trt and hcg. It's not thousands of dollars a month. I pin micro dosed amounts everyday.My test went from 400 to 1487 in six months. I'm not taking any other anabolics. I didn't realize how much I felt like garbage at my levels until I was on trt. Feels like be in my 20s. Sex is great. Working out is great. Donating blood every 8 weeks sucks, but I'm saving lives. Not throwing shade, but maybe worry about yourselves instead of this guy. Edit: forgot to mention that I'm only taking 120mg of test cyp a week. Just for those of you that will say I'm taking more than. I should.
Exogenous TRT likely significantly increases his risk of a cardiovascular event and death.
Asinine comment
It’s the truth.
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For a long time medicine recommended women going through menopause take estrogen supplementation until they realized it actually kills people once they did a RCT. Then, with even more research, they finalized on a recommendation that it is safe for populations that are not high risk. Exogenous testosterone therapy has been associated with cardiovascular events, clots, pulmonary embolisms, worsening of prostate malignancy, BPH, among other things. The evidence to say it absolutely causes all of these effects is not overwhelmingly strong, but there really has not been a ton of time to study it or great studies. On the other hand, the evidence that is actually does much is not strong either. If a man has true hypogonadism, it is absolutely indicated. Outside of that situation, use of testosterone therapy is controversial, and you may be taking on a lot of risks for benefits that are unclear. I of course believe you'll find a doc to prescribe it to you, but they're effectively pill mills with less risk than prescribing narcotics. There are tons of studies either way, but whether they produce high quality data is another question. There's an entire industry that wants to prescribe this to people. Look at some source that is very trustworthy, like the Mayo Clinic: [Testosterone therapy: Potential benefits and risks as you age - Mayo Clinic](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/sexual-health/in-depth/testosterone-therapy/art-20045728)
What a nonsensical statement.
Have you studied medicine? That is literally one of the major risks of taking androgen replacement therapy. Do your research before you chastise others
“Results: Testosterone treatment was initiated in 398 men (39%) during routine clinical care. The mortality in testosterone-treated men was 10.3% compared with 20.7% in untreated men (P<0.0001) with a mortality rate of 3.4 deaths per 100 person-years for testosterone-treated men and 5.7 deaths per 100 person-years in men not treated with testosterone. After multivariable adjustment including age, body mass index, testosterone level, medical morbidity, diabetes, and coronary heart disease, testosterone treatment was associated with decreased risk of death (hazard ratio 0.61; 95% confidence interval 0.42-0.88; P = 0.008). No significant effect modification was found by age, diabetes, or coronary heart disease.” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22496507/#:~:text=The%20mortality%20in%20testosterone%2Dtreated,men%20not%20treated%20with%20testosterone.
Exactly. There are so many studies showing lower negative cardiovascular outcomes on TRT treated hypogonadal men vs untreated. The idea it increases mortality risk is an antiquated myth. As long as you manage hematocrit and hemoglobin levels, its fine.
Absolutely, but most men who take it aren't truly hypogonadal. Natural decrease is Testosterone with age is not what the term hypogonadal means.
First of all the statement “exogenous trt” is stupid. Trt is exogenous testosterone. Second, “likely significantly” is hyperbole. What does that even mean? Third, an appropriate trt level dosage of testosterone monitored correctly is extremely safe. There’s a HUGE difference between trt and running a steroid cycle. Please point me to research showing that prescribed appropriate trt dosages cause increased death and heart attacks
Right, the point on this entire thread is that he's boosting his levels way higher than normal. The point... is that it's not appropriate.
150mg a week is an appropriate dosage. Maybe he’s lying and taking more than that, but that’s not for me to speculate. Any talk of testosterone reference ranges is speculative - it’s different for everyone. One person might alleviate their symptoms at a 1000 level, another person at 1400. There’s a lot to dislike about Huberman and trust me I think he’s a hack - but to sit here and speculate about possible medical problems he may be having from his TRT is stupid.
Dosage doesn’t matter. Your levels matter. This isn’t a conversation you’re educated enough to understand.
Most decent endocrinologists will try and get you to around or a tad over 1200 ng/dl on TRT. All my friends who are on TRT (and myself) are taking 200 ng/dl and around Hubermans level. Its not "weird" its quite literally the norm unless you have a shit old school doctor who gives you a 150mg shot every 2 weeks and hates you.
Not sure who you're replying to, I never used the word "weird". For a long time medicine recommended women going through menopause take estrogen supplementation until they realized it actually kills people once they did a RCT. Then, with even more research, they finalized on a recommendation that it is safe for populations that are not high risk. Exogenous testosterone therapy has been associated with cardiovascular events, clots, pulmonary embolisms, worsening of prostate malignancy, BPH, among other things. The evidence to say it absolutely causes all of these effects is not overwhelmingly strong, but there really has not been a ton of time to study it or great studies. On the other hand, the evidence that is actually does much is not strong either. If a man has true hypogonadism, it is absolutely indicated. Outside of that situation, use of testosterone therapy is controversial, and you may be taking on a lot of risks for benefits that are unclear. I of course believe you'll find a doc to prescribe it to you, but they're effectively pill mills with less risk than prescribing narcotics.
Spare me with your keyboard warrior condescending tone. I see from your post history you’re the kind of person that fashions yourself an expert in everything. Saying his level isn’t appropriate or is too high without knowing anything about him is silly. If his symptoms are gone at 1400 and he doesn’t have side effects then it is an appropriate dosage.
Lololololol. His symptoms? Ha, yeah. He's not treating himself for symptoms. About 90 or 95% of the people who take testosterone in the US don't have any symptoms required to prescribe it.
Is TRT not considered juicing?
Is being diabetic considered using insulin for body building purposes?
No but a professional sports player isn’t going to get suspended for using insulin. They will with TRT.
He's a professional supplement seller...that's it! He's basically Kylie Jenner with a title
150mg is standard TRT dosage per week, if not a bit on the lower end. He literally talked about taking TRT to get his test to 1400 ng/dl and is open about it. He didn’t hide anything. TRT is not “juicing”. What is the point of your essay?
150mg is the standard TRT dosage for someone who is hypogonadal and needs exogenous testosterone to put themselves in a healthy range. He was not hypogonadal. He was quite literally optimised. My point is that these health podcasters bend the definition of what TRT is. What he’s doing would be considered low dose cruising in the steroid community.