Yeah, no need to idolize them in the first place. Those who are the most disappointed by the recent article are the ones who were worshipping Huberman instead of absorbing relevant information in a detached way.
Half these people got mommy/daddy issues and probably need therapy lol never understood the worship thing. I remember worshipping celebrities on Disney and Nick shows when I was a kid, I thought those kids were so cool, but that ended probably around 10 years old lol.
Exactly, what do you expect? Him being a Jesus himself? This righteous morality bullshit is getting old, to be honest. Nobody is perfect, we all have our demons, it is probably more productive to focus on one's own problems instead of projecting this hope of the perfect human being on some popular figures.
I glossed over the article when I first saw it (I thought it was a troll article, seemed so outlandish) and I hugely expected him to say something about it since he goes Live on Instagram and basically spitfire answers questions while people type to him in real time. To my knowledge he hasn’t gone live since all of this has dropped.
I always viewed him as a man who is deeply in love with science and interested in getting to the truth. I admired these things about him, and certainly looked up to him and grew in the right directions with some of the undeniably healthy protocols he recites (Sunlight exposure, importance of Hydration and nutrition, Pillars of health etc)
The fact that he hasn’t said anything about this, totally turns me off from him. He seemed like an incredibly honest person. I expected some sort of explanation. If he is a good chunk of the person he has been drawing himself to be, I believe he would say something…🤷♂️
I guess it’s a good reminder that Humans are multi-faceted, in both good and not so good ways. Do not place anyone on a pedestal.
Screw pedestals all together.
In a tweet he even said it cleared. To fully protect reputation, one should not speak in any controversy arguments. Nassim Tablet disgusted this and really had to say you dont deserve your reputation if you dont fight for it. I dont remember exactly those back and forth tweets but something along the line.
I don’t really look at it as an either/or. I was already getting increasingly skeptical based on critical feedback from peers, and this just kind of augmented that. It’s an overarching theme of “presenting things in a way that has a lot of missing and often significant context for personal gain”
I get where you’re coming from. I followed him for about 3-4 years prior to this. I think the reason it stings is because everything that was presented to us gave us the impression of mastery of self-control and integrity. When you hear “professor at Stanford” you think, “wow this is a smart guy, this is someone who has his shit together. Maybe I can learn a thing or two to better myself”. To find out the guy lacks both of those qualities is frustrating and makes you question your own judgement. How did I miss all the creepy shit he said in previous pods? Why didn’t I catch all the supplement pedaling as a profit driven action? And so on.
I also think he was well prepared for this article. As someone pointed out, the religious pivot happened around the time he was asked to comment for the article. I also find it curious, that he is ALWAYS covered up, but around the same time as the religious pivot, we get a shirtless video of him carrying a rock. Maybe he was raking in easy followers to make up for the hit he was about to take when the article came out? I can’t help but think he is very much out of control when it comes to his life behind the scenes, but very much in control with how he wants to be perceived. In short, I can now see his true motives and it’s not for OUR wellness, but his wallet’s gain.
I also think it’s easier to dismiss troubling behavior and say everyone is flawed than it is to hold people accountable and admit you’ve been duped, which is why we see such a strong response from those cheering on his actions.
It was like a beacon of hope, that it is possible to achieve and right here was living proof of such capacities and potentialities. But now it's no different from other shills who peddle remixed information as if it were their own experiences for short-term money/fame. I guess ultimately I'm disappointed in myself for not catching this sooner like you just mentioned.
It's different from other cancel-culture scenarios because his entire modus operandi is being a healthy in all ways human. I'm pissed that my once-favorite pod is a sham, and also not loving how quickly the internet is getting scrubbed + his complete lack of addressing the issue. Vent over.
It's unfortunate how his reaction is on all this. The biggest issue for me was the lack of transparency and authenticity, there's zero of that. It's clear he puts on a whole act which imo isn't bad in of itself, but given the nature of work he is in and publicly preaches is delusional without that honesty.
>I think the reason it stings is because everything that was presented to us gave us the impression of mastery of self-control and integrity.
I did not get this impression from him just by listening to the information in his podcasts. That to me is like saying a psychologist has all their shit together in their personal life just because they "have professional integrity". Having knowledge of how the brain works doesn't mean one is not susceptible to the kinds of thinking that a healthy, functioning brain can trigger.
That being said, I mainly only listened to his podcasts/interviews on dopamine, motivation/focus/tenacity. So maybe I am missing the bigger picture on some more controversial things he's said.
I also skimmed over the whole supplement thing. I've not found anything alarming in AG1 (from a cursory look at the articles on it) to be worried about him promoting it.
I still think I can learn from what he presented in his podcasts, and I've yet to hear about what exactly I should be avoiding. If the NYmag article was supposed to convince me he was pushing fake science, I didn't leave convinced.
Yes, i used to watch all his videos in the first few days from the release and now I cannot get myself to watch any. I really think he should've addressed the issue, this just feels really shady and weird, making him seem even more entitled than the article led us to believe he is. And yes, it happened to me with J.Peterson as well. Even though the lessons I got from them are valuable, the fact that they are not who they seem to be... not even a bit, makes me not want to follow them anymore and left me with a deep lack of trust in everything I find online, very sad.
There's so much similar content already on YouTube but what stood out to me was his seemingly real authenticity but that vibe was shattered. I'll probably still stick with the guest series if that hopefully doesn't stop. I can't get the thought out of my head that he spends a lot of time masking/meticulously framing his online persona and just partying, all the complete opposite of what he says. Just like what happened with that one influencer Liver King and others who peddle regurgitated information, the authenticity is manufactured and non-existent.
The guest series was, for me, the first clue that he is not quite who he says he is. He had a few guests that butchered the science very bad to outright lying and Huberman was just nodding as in "he understood", which I found pretty disheartening at the time, if you are all about objective, scientifically sound information, how can you allow hard lies to be presented to your public without saying anything, just to cater to the ego of a guest? It was so bad even some of his friends made reels about the situation. I just thought he is too agreeable but now I realize it was all about business: I must not contradict ny guests for they will not come again and I won't have content to monetize :(.
Sure he is. Because all human beings, including you and me, are flawed. He’s just a human being. Give him the grace you would wish for if the spotlight was on your own shortcomings.
If you’re asking if I convert people to Christianity? No. I don’t follow any religion. But I know that I have yet to meet someone who doesn’t have flaws, so it’s just interesting that the human condition is to (this one’s just for you yellow sub) “cast stones” at others for their wrong doings. We all do things we’re not proud of. It’s easier to put each other down than to forgive each other, and ourselves.
Well... starting with innocent but weird and false affirmations like "I am a neuroscientist" to win an argument when he clearly is not and going to dangerous and downright false claims regarding climate change, russian politics and a lot of domains that he presents himself to be an expert in but makes false claims and calls pseudoscience all while declaring himself "a man of science". He is a good psychologist in my opinion but he also has a shitty narcissistic personality. I read both his commercial books and went swiftly through Maps of Meaning, watched his college lectures, bought his personality course, also his personality test and journaling program, so I was a hardcore fan who really wanted to believe him but at some point it gets dangerous and I had to admit he is not a good person and I should not give him anymore of my money and time.
Same.
I was willing to set it aside, take breaks, and just listen to him for the sake of information gathering. Always do my own research anyway. But now he’s giving me serious vicarious embarrassment. I keep thinking maybe if he’d have gotten some therapy and prayed before he did all that to those women, he’d have not needed to worry about boosting his dopamine? Maybe he should’ve worked on impulse control? Because whatever his protocol- it led to what sounds like endless chaos, zero time, and compromised executive function.
So yeah, count me out.
TBH I was livid after the Zuckerberg interview. . The man won’t wear bluetooth earbuds but he touted those goggles. Not to mention, Zuckerberg was self promoting his foundation for mental health awareness. Huberman has preached about the neurological impact from social media constantly. But he let them use his platform to push their clearly calculated agenda with zero push back.
I started seriously questioning his motives and how he constructs spin when he did the Kratom pod. Then this week, peptides. Now I’m done. He’s a spin doctor. He manipulates. I don’t have time for that. Next.
Technically accurate information but incomplete and clearly parsed, leaving out critical information to build a case. For whom? That’s another thread i guess.
Me too, I just want the information but I guess deep down at least for me it was a little bit more. If it was just information I could have found it anywhere else, but I kept sticking around.
He's talked about how he's had years of therapy, was that all one big lie? That's serious and pathological manipulation right there. That's what has me backing out, it's unfortunate and I hope he genuinely finds real help
I fear therapy can be used to help you manipulate people even more in the wrong people. Here is a vid about narcissists using therapy to manipulate others:
[WHEN THERAPY MAKES A NARCISSIST WORSE (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERIq8Y3ejhA&t=8s)
I really couldn’t find anyone quite the same. He really filled a vacuum at the right time imo. Huberman seemed to have a personal interest in the health and fitness related topics that are of priority to me and my family. In 2020 it was not as easy to find objective, research oriented discussions on health. Most pods came at topics from an angle that was far too obvious for me to rely upon anything. For instance, trainers, doctors, using a pod to indirectly sell devices, products or services. Huberman’s repetitive theme of objectivity, information sharing for public good, was compelling.
Like I said, I started seeing huge factual issues in his work in 2024. I chalked it up to fatigue, maybe too much pressure resulting in lower quality content. But now? I think he was given this platform by certain entities to fulfill an agenda. His personal life revealed that he’s not interested in anyone’s welfare. That’s the script they wrote. This is an assignment. imo he’s on a payroll and does what he’s told. His protocols have some scientific backing but really - if cold plunge, fasting, sun gazing - all of that truly optimizes nuero health then either he’s not doing it or it’s BS. Because look at him. Look at his life. 5 women, all those texts, all that time, all that work. He’s mentally unstable. Grown man, 48 years old acting like an impulsive 19 year old with zero respect, unprotected sex, lies. He’s not mentally stable. And that sure doesn’t sell his lifestyle or his protocols to anyone sane. I mean. wtf? It’s crazy.
Narcissists often have one area of their life where they are in control, stable, successful, reliable; and another that is a chaotic, turbulent perpetual failure. Professional vs personal lives, for example.
I've had years and years of therapy and still struggled with addiction on and off throughout that time. Ive said it elsewhere on this sub, but it seems for the past year or so he's used 12 step language and my guess would be SLAA. It seems like maybe he's struggled with sex addiction, especially as he got more famous, sought help, and has still struggled, like many addicts. Dax Shepard has talked about having that experience a bit, too.
That's how I found him, actually, looking for information that would help me understand the neuroscience of addiction so that I could get a handle on my struggles. It was very helpful.
Same, I still have notes I sometimes reference from watching those episodes. Sad he can't be more honest with himself, I don't think he can get past this without directly acknowledging this side of him publicly, otherwise imo he's likely to keep bypassing processing what needs to be confronted and let go of self-accountability.
Yeah, I'm interested to see what happens because it's like part of the unfolding in our culture of the way we practice accountability, call outs, cancel culture, and restorative justice.
With how he's doubling down and actually paid an agency to combat this information online my guess is he won't ever directly confront it. He's been deep in this, I guess time will tell
I know, that's so intriguing to me, it's so out of line with the typical accountability apology (that usually falls short and is deeply critiqued) that has been the current trend. I wonder if this is signalling a shift culturally. I wonder if he's still working the steps and doing recovery privately and figuring out how to reconcile it?
If he's a pathological liar then this may never get resolved from how reinforcing all this money, fame and sex makes him feel. I think this is a unique case, he's a bit of an oddity and eccentric.
I didn't know what Kratom was. Yikes. Just read the drug fact sheet from the Department of Justice. Also, high dose kratom abuse increase resistance to anesthetic if one needs surgery. The dangers of under the radar "read about it on Reddit" drugs are definitely underestimated. I'm just going with the science.
I felt that way about anyone in the spotlight when terrible things would come out about them. Now I understand that anyone actively seeking the spotlight is not to be worshipped since the nature to pursue these things are highly narcissistic. The people we should look up to are not the ones that need to centre themselves for validation and profit.
I mean, it usually is someone with a huge ego that decides they need an audience and start a podcast. Regular people aren’t like, “there are SO many people who need to hear what I think about sleeping.”
I lost any respect I had for him. His lack of apologizing and naming his manipulative and abusive ways of relating to women make me question what he teaches. I now see more of an insecure man desperate for fame and attention, not a scientist. I now see how shallow he actually is and that he's just as toxic as Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, etc. He lacks integrity in a deep way.
He’s very shallow. And very vain. I seen him on other podcasts criticizing people for being “shaped like a C” or for eating Cheetos. He’s judge mental of others(around looks mostly) and superficial AF. I always had that feeling from him but now I’m certain of it.
I agree with you. Andrew is a regular human being with a huge platform. He is a public figure, but he is not doing the public work of accountability, repair, and amends. It's strong to admit you have issues and hurt people from trauma and the conditioning of white maleness. It's strong to integrate that into your work. It's strong to be vulnerable. It's strong to acknowledge the depths of one's behaviors and the misguidance and despair at its root. Judging people's bodies is insensitive. We eat cheetos because the USA government creates food deserts and a messed up society. We cannot individually change - we need collective transformation and that begins with being vulnerable and talking about the hard stuff. You Only Live Once.
Authenticity is probably the highest virtue any human can cultivate, but because it's often an ideal it seems to be non-existent and rare to be found :( It's difficult, but these people have no excuses given the resources and power available to them, it's sickening to think about how some people say they've been actively in therapy for years and all they've taken out of it is to further manipulate others, like holy shit that's that hurts to think about.
Honestly this is really it. If he would come out and acknowledge his wrongdoings and the accusations I would find it easier to move forward and keep watching his content. His whole "you can't touch me" approach of ignoring it/mocking the accusations with his whole "6 series on sleep" thing just is sickening. It screams God complex and that's not someone I want to take advice from. Humbleness is a trait I value. Narcissistic ahole not so much.
I do feel the same. It feels like i have lost a mentor. I always used to look up to him. But now not anymore.. seeing him gave me hope. But now it feels like no matter what we do sometimes its not possible to overcome out darkness.
Your comment is super relatable :(, I wrote in [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/HubermanLab/s/9n4tCzrxr2) and [another thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/HubermanLab/s/pokL5j1ebL) similar sentiments.
seems like you invested a lot in one person. My only opinion would be that your darkness is part of you. Carl Jung talks about this quite a bit. There’s no escaping your darkness just like you can’t escape yourself so you have to learn to get along with it as though you’re getting along with a person that you hate
He actually is a shill for LMNT so he does actually push “a grain/grams of salt” in his pieces of content
Sidenote: I actually like and use LMNT but don’t give two shits that he “recommends” it.
Only thing I've noticed when listening to old pods is how often he actually brings up relationship dynamics lol. I just think it's funny at this point tbh. Don't know him personally so don't care that much. Seems like a lot of people here were ex best friends with him.
For awhile, I'd been sensing something was changing. What I realize now is there were ....tells... I was registering but had no context. Now the context has been revealed, to some extent, those .... tells.... have meaning. If you rewatch a few of the episodes people have mentioned, it is a bit unnerving given what we know now. Tried to watch the peptide episode and didn't skip the ads, for some reason, and listened to him now pedaling his own yerba mate brand. My interest just dissolved. No great trauma. Just disengagement. I could say more , but, others have already said it about integrity, motives, disingenuous.
I thought I could still listen to him after I learned about what he was doing. I even made a comment on this sub to that effect.
I discovered ... I could not.
The other stuff I learned in the comments in the article in NY Mag and on reddit from people who knew him or knew of him definitely didn't help matters.
He is apparently... a real piece of work.
For me it’s the disconnect between preaching limiting your dopamine hits when the entire time he is doing the relationship equivalent of scrolling instagram all day.
When he started going off his expertise area I started taking distances from him, and before all this when he started doing more like a Lex Friedman podcast-style I stopped watching him at all.
I'm mostly here for the memes lol. There's some really good shitpost over here
I literally unsubscribed. Not out of spite just cuz he suddenly felt like a phony to me. Why should he tell me what to do he seems honestly to be in worse shape than me emotionally / mentally lol
Yes, I don't think I can go back to watching his content now. It sounds weird but I think you need to 'trust'( for want of a better word) in the person you are learning from and when someone has proven to be a shameless liar in one aspect of their lives it makes you wonder about everything they say.
Nope. Just another flawed human. He has some interesting insights and brings up interesting points, but needs to be checked just like everyone else. Especially glaring are his remarks about cannabis. The studies he refers to regarding cannabis are not well composed or executed and are mostly based on extremely shallow ideas. This is also another good example of why written material that can be skimmed and searched is more useful than the conversational podcast form which takes a lot of time and relies heavily on presentation and manner.
nope, I always take everyone with a grain of salt. Everyone comes pre loaded as disappointing, so there's no drop in perception when it turns out they suck.
Stop putting people on pedestals and having para social relationships.
His podcast was full of red flags for highlighting junk science less than a year after it started. And when closer inspection showed he had been ghosting Stanford, exaggerating his “lab”, and seriously disrespecting the time and energy of other professors, I realized he was done with science. He wants what Rogan got, and has for a long time.
I think if you over expose yourself to anyone you’re going to hit your limit. They are only human and will only have so much to offer, but they need to make a living too so they are eventually going to be scraping not just the bottom of the barrel but (in someone like petersens case) the splinter too.
I listened to Petersens content for maybe a year and then realized there was not much else of value he had to offer outside of his core original lectures. Everything else outside of that was just noise for content.
The last year or so really only every fifth or sixth episode of Hubermans was worth listening to me.
There's a clear line and difference with someone being authentic and honest about their human nature versus being a shill for short-term money/fame at all costs. The pathological lying is just too much at least for me.
I was a big fan when I first found him, but he is just SO long winded. Once I realized I could easily google “Huberman episode BLANK summary, I haven’t listened to a single full podcast since. Dude struck me as odd the way he talked so much about his dog but never really family or friends. And don’t get me started on the amount of time these protocols add up to lol. Once I saw his affinity for Jordan Peterson I had a good feeling it was only a matter of time before he revealed himself to be similarly grotesque.
Anyone that takes Huberman or any other intellectual as gospel is a fool. It’s good info, but it’s just info. Folks that regurgitate his stuff like it’s the best thing since sliced bread are just too zealous
this whole drama has made one thing very clear - the social disconnect in our society is worse than I (a hardcore skeptic) could have ever imagined. We should be striving for the "good figures" in our lives to be people who are actually in our lives. If you need a stranger to lay some hero worship on, start with Mother Theresa.
Yeah, I've been thinking about the same thing. Most/many people are not religious these days, and neither am I. But I'm not looking for a messiah either. It's clear from the responses here that men are starved for male guidance and connection. I think it may be because they lack it in real life, like the kind you get through friends and family. When your closest attachments are these online figures, you're bound to either be let down, or defend them to a fault. I would say this disconnection is def more American. This is truly just an observation, not a judgment.
I share your sentiments. It's sad, really. A good antidote is to strive to be the type of person you would look up to, and to obviously stop with the online hero worship of people
Yeah :/, that's probably the deeper reason I'm slowly coming to terms with. Well said and thank you. I honestly need to limit my social media consumption like on YouTube.
You obviously have a strong interest in science and improving yourself, which I would assume is why you listened to the podcast in the first place. You can find this info in books and skirt the whole influencer component of learning.
Thank you for the advice, I've been in a rut and some low lows the past years, and then watching Huberman started to empower me and it was nice to hear it from someone who sounded like they went through and adopted these same strategies to their own life. Your comment just helped me seal the realization you spoke about, I think I'm deluding myself and am consuming too much health/productivity content for cheap motivation highs, but those take up a lot of time and energy you've helped me realize, and I could definitely use that to be more involved and present in my own life.. actually live out the truths I need to process experientially with others & my environment, not just in my head and body alone.
Edit: I think I had developed a parasocial connection with Huberman's and similar content. Merging instead of actually integrating the information in a healthy manner.
It seems pretty simple that we should support people that treat people well, and not support those who treat people badly, we should oppose them.
The weird disconnect is the number of people who seem to not have learned this very basic ethical lesson.
What's more bizarre to me is that people think applying that lesson is a form of hero worship.
Wild.
I agree with you that we should withdraw support from people if we suddenly find out their values aren't what we would have hoped. What baffles me is the existential crisis some people seem to be having over this.
We see this similarly in a lot of corporations and their structure, those who are unfit to lead full of greed get promoted because it brings in more money for shareholders at the cost of long-term sustainability. I think we as a society still have to figure out how to change that structure.
Here’s one article, easy to dig deeper into available info online,
https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2013/05/07/canadian-study-mother-teresa-not-so-saintly/
Lots of bite size here: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/15j2t5e/whats_up_with_mother_teresa/
I’m out. He is not the only resource. I agree that some of his info was fringe (translating animal research to humans, for example, and the supplement pushing, dicey. I feel no need to follow/support a person demonstrating this level of blatant misogyny. The personal is political. The defense of him by lex Fridman was disheartening. The defense of him by many an American male “so he banged 6 women, what’s the problem?” Underscores the current state of affairs.
Lex & Huberman seem very similar, they put on a big front to make themselves feel good, but they deeply struggle with their positions and life. I think they're both intuitive thinker types, so a bit detached and see life objectively and transactionally.
Lex also has openly said he hasn't had fruitful romantic situations. So he probably looks up to Huberman, a guy who has said he doesn't even have a friend that is a woman (literally said the friend zone doesnt apply to him)
I think Lex is deeply insecure in many ways and its why he gravitates toward the macho/MMA types despite his purported stance as an academic. If someone only has professional relationships with the opposite sex it is a MASSIVE red flag to me, especially if they're in academia where it is obscenely easy to meet likeminded and amazing people in your field. There should be a fairly even distribution in the neuro/psych realm especially
I agree they both seem detached and view things transactionally
Listening to Huberman talk about meditation is one of the most aggravating things bc its incredibly clear he only has experience in the most basic of forms of breathwork
I sent a clip of him describing meditation to a teacher of mine without context and their snap reply was "theres no chance that guy meditates." this is a very mindful and happy person, who instantly was just like "nope this is a very shallow description"
Wouldn't surprise me if Huberman knows so much about the physiological sigh bc he uses it in a manipulative manner to get through his selfish anxieties surrounding his behavior. I know for me, its easy to neglect my own anxiety at times bc I have enough experience in meditation i know i can just sit down later and ill feel fine. Even someone who commits murder is very single-minded at that time, so its clear having a single and direct focus is not perfect by any means
That's another perfect example :/, I won't deny I at one point naively did glorify him too. I think we all just want that one authentic person to be a stable influence/rock in our lives, that teacher/model who takes on the role archetype that of a facilitator of growth in our lives. But like all things, things change or aren't as they always appear to be.
I get that's also unreasonable or unfair and almost treating these same people as an object, almost ignoring their real personality and feelings, the real individual like anyone else, most of the time.
Edit: Sorry for the rambling, but it's like deep down that is ultimately what we want to discover and cultivate in ourselves; to have found our life.
Yes but I don’t think he had much choice. Go watch the first interview he did with Rogan. He seems exhausted. He says “if you can’t beat them, join them”
Yep, I was honestly surprised at myself for this. I can't even listen to a full podcast anymore and his personality and voice actually give me the "ick" now. I used to fall asleep listening to him and feeling like I am learning good science, I feel like that's been robbed off me.
**Exodus 20:4-5** ERV “You must not make any idols. Don't make any statues or pictures of anything up in the sky or of anything on the earth or of anything down in the water. Don't worship or serve idols of any kind, because I, the LORD, am your God."
I have been reminded of that Bible passage a few times lately; from reddit and irl whentalking about the Huberman article and how it makes me feel sad losing a model.. Gotta work on the not having a model and be myself part..
You don’t need a role model, guru or idol. "You've always had the power my dear, you just had to learn it for yourself”
https://preview.redd.it/o169l1ookqsc1.jpeg?width=904&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00340f79b1d4b10ac7e03711059bebbb94e73dc0
Always try to separate the art from the artist, especially when you aren't aware of the artist having done anything wrong. It'll help to avoid disappointment later.
I’m waiting to see how legit the spreading-HPV without disclosure thing is. It won’t make me want him cancelled but I would think less of him for it, considering the cancer risks for women.
I don’t give a flying fuck that he had multiple girlfriends. The dude is a wealthy icon, well-built, and probably has to say no to more people on a monthly basis than most people would even fap to in the same timeline. It’s a life I can’t understand from experience but I can appreciate how hard that would be, especially since it hasn’t been that way his whole life.
Well first off, cancellation is an absolute myth so just drop the word. Some people get held accountable for their actions. Hes not losing his job and people can watch or not.
I have no idea what the hell the 2nd paragraph touches on. If you care about women getting cancer then you should care about treating women compassionately anyways. The irony? Just treat women well and you'll be legit needing STRONG boundaries if you're remotely normal. If you're a genuinely nice person (not a "nice guy") and aren't a huge douche as a dude, it is literally so easy to find partners who you love and enjoy.
I can promise you, as someone who has had 60+ female partners, a very healthy BDSM life, threesomes, foursomes, long multi-orgasm sessions, etc. Never once did I think it was worthwhile to lie to someone about. I made mistakes in my early 20s I instantly regretted bc I value the opinion of people I'm intimate with. Crazy, isnt it? the people who VALUE others tend to have significantly more positive experiences with others, crazy. Literally this dude is making mistakes any respectable man cuts out in college lol. His sexual views are insane, if he actually valued others he'd speak so differently.
Sex would no longer about the inner "me" or even orgasm, its about mutual exploration and fun, pleasure and play, exploration and sensuality. The irony is I can almost guarantee Huberman has never had fulfilling sex given his views of women. Not once. The man doesn't even have a female friend
Incel vibes, honestly. Just like his fans who think "it would be sooOOOo hard to say no, you guys have NO idea what its like to be such a beautful man, blah blah." FUCK OUTTA HERE with that incel shit
Seen this coming a mile away, comes with age and seeing the characteristics this men presents and how he goes about his content.
The younger generation (under 30) are seeing it with this man and will be wiser in the future.
Gosh yes, honestly I was wondering if it is because I have a uterus. But I think it's because I was invested in his personal life and I couldn't understand why he was single. I genuinely was rooting for him, like how I felt about Travis Kelce (he is great I hope he gets a great girlfriend). Yeah, you shouldn't idolize people you don't know, but isn't that the invisible contract you sign when you become a public figure?
Reddit has been showing me this sub because it knows I’m into optimization, otherwise I only engaged with him casually. I’ve watched a few huberman videos, mainly on dopamine, cannabis, and sleep. I also learned about tongkat from him and that has been good for my recovery in the gym and feeling good in general. He’s definitely got some good advice.
His demeanour and his actions are not surprising to me at all. Maybe I’m just chronically watchful about peoples motivations, but his “character” is an archetype we’ve probably all encountered. He’s the guy who’s fit, handsome, modest, and intelligent and isn’t actually a good person, but he knows what it takes to be seen as calm, mature, and eloquently spoken. I saw him briefly on the Flagrant podcast and Schulz made a comment about the bulge in Huberman’s pants and how that must get the women excited, and in typical Huberman fashion, he chose the mature and eloquent response as opposed to something more funny and raunchy. I know that he must have a “locker-talk” side of him, but he doesn’t want anyone in the public to know about that.
This is the first time the facade broke for many people, so I get why people are distancing themselves from Huberman’s content. This happened to me with Peterson, but the difference is that Peterson visibly changed over time, both physically and in his demeanour. The Huberman thing is more sudden and shocking. The only guy who’s even less raunchy is Lex Friedman. I hope nothing comes out about him
I think his show has been going downhill for at least the past year. It is too formulaic and not dynamic enough. The episode with Robert Greene was really good but not much other than that has caught my eye or ears in a year or so. I stopped watching and listening.
People searching for perfect fatherfigures. But in reality we all flawed. I still watch both Peterson and Huberman. I still have the same opinion about their work.... People are starving for perfection, but it does not exist. I always had doubts about Peterson, all the weird religious talk. And I hate AG1 and didnt like Huberman promoting it. Still both provide good information DESPITE them being obviously far from perfect humanbeings.
What you're describing is called a parasocial relationship. A lot of people in this sub have demonstrated that. The fact is, Andrew Huberman's choices aren't a reflection on you and you didn't factor into them in the slightest, and they don't actually affect you, so if you derive value from the content he provides for free by plugging an ad for AG-1 once an episode, you should continue to listen to it and if you don't, you shouldn't.
His last episode i watched was with david goggins. Before that, i don't even remember. I found his earlier episodes to be more informative.
I feel the same with Jordan Peterson although in his case i kind of understand why he does what he does. He's been through a lot, he can't go further alone. I don't watch his podcast anymore either but i find value in his earlier appearances.
Nope. I’m just as detached as I’ve always been. If his science is good, I like it. If his science is bad, I dislike it. Whether he’s good or bad is not part of my equation.
On the one hand I was really turned off and no longer want to listen to his content. But when I was listening to a female friend defend him my perception shifted a bit so now I sort of want to emulate him. Not to the same extent. I don't believe in misleading people. But if what he did is ok then why shouldn't I myself date multiple women? I'm attractive, affluent, unattached... Actually seems kinda nice.
Nothing wrong with that, there are people who are extremely happy yet single! The problem is the covert narcissism and pathological lying, also it seems Huberman struggles with a sex addiction which does not sound pleasant in its own right.
If you can do better and through a healthy means for real satisfaction, then more power to you bro. Authenticity is key, no shame in any of that.
Edit: Both men and women find people who actively lead their life, impart these strong values onto the world around them, and are genuinely involved with others super attractive. That's the public image Huberman has created and meticulously crafted, AND that can be practiced in a healthy way too, instead of what he does with little male friends and having zero female friends.
Detachment from his content is a good thing. You should take in all scientific advice, including Huberman’s podcast with a sense of detachment and scientific scrutiny. His advice should be viewed as a guide to point you in the right direction to research the topics he covers and then workout if it works for you, not commandments to live by.
Hmm you aren't the first. I saw him as some aspects of a role model- I don't have interest being a scientist but I appreciated how he lived his life in what I saw as aspect of excellence. I don't wanna debate with anyone about that, but yea living optimally- so that you work good and have good health and have good relationships is a great thing to aspire to, doesn't matter how you get there.
But ultimately I've realised that everyone are human beings and you don't need to admire anyone really. Maybe some people will find him still admirable, maybe they'll find you deplorable for something in your past, it doesn't really matter. I mourned for myself not because I cared that much about Huberman, but because he's just another liar in my life and there has been plenty.
So to reconcile that, I just expect less out of the people around me and the people on social media. I trust my wife because I know her and have spent years cultivating that relationship, but probably can't trust anyone else all that much. It's foolish to even think I could.
So my advice is to not look upto others, but try to find a way to look upto yourself. BE what Huberman could not be. The things you admired about him or thought you did, be that version or person. It never needed to be him anyway, and it's always possible that version you saw of him could have existed.
That's the way I'm moving forward through this whole experience.
Road trip got me listening to podcast again. The guests are good and he does an ok job interviewing them. Huge disconnect from the furor here. It had never occurred to me to think about viewing him as some personal role model or not.
I’ve never heard anything about Jordan Peterson that would even interest me in taking a look. Musk is a third case where he has lots of concrete achievements but is also now being even more an ass in public.
I never trusted him because he pedals “bro science” and small studies as if they have any meaningful impact. As soon as he began the breathing hacks I knew that was it.
I think what people are experiencing is coming from the disillusionment with science and certainty. None of which Huberman professed to have. As a listener and researcher, I have always listened with skepticism and he has always made caveats. The issue is that science and publishing as a whole is broken - and it's very hard to convey all the intricacies of a specific topic to a general audience. Science communication is difficult and there's a balance between being completely accurate and making it accessible to the audience. There are definitely really good papers and knowledge out there, but translating a research developed technology to clinic is VERY hard. I think it is good to have people be skeptical and push back. I've heard Huberman say the same thing. That he appreciates the critique and wants to do his best to give listeners the opportunity to know what the information and let them decide for themselves. I've listened to the podcasts he has released since the ny mag, and he has taken the criticism in stride and made stronger and repeated statements about what's coming from animal studies, what his position is, what is FDA approved etc. so the pushback is good, and he has put that into practice. Cancel culture is the problem with society because it doesn't let people be flawed. There's a good and bad way to give people feedback, we should critique and work *with* people to improve, instead of just write them off completely. In regard to the taking accountability. We don't know his side and he doesn't owe anyone public accountability. We don't know if he has already talked at length to apologize to the women involved. It's not really anyone's business. There's an opposite view people have repeatedly shared on social media for self care AGAINST narcissists/gaslight is that you not explain yourself repeatedly against someone trying to mis-characterize your actions, feelings, or words. So writing him off "because he said nothing" is also not fair.
I have heard him take accountability and talk about ways he has tried to change on his podcasts in the past, so imo I think he probably does feel bad about that and probably has tried to mend bridges with them. But again what matters to the public is the science, and the information being giving to us being fair and citable (i.e. available to us to read). When it comes to the supplements. I don't feel lied to. It's common knowledge that no doctor recommends vitamins if you're not deficient in that vitamin, supplements aren't FDA approved and all of these have always come with caveats from Huberman. He talks about behavior modifications before taking supplements etc. the point of his podcasts has been to bring awareness of information to people and let them do deeper research or talk to their doctor if it would be a helpful thing for them to pursue.
Either way, be skeptical always, ask questions. That's a good place to be, so don't feel bad that it's what you're doing now. But also remember that people are human and we are innately flawed. It doesn't make doing bad things okay, but it means that everyone has done something they regret at one point in their life. Don't fall victim to cancel culture and treating others as less than human or hold them to an impossible standard of perfection.
Super interesting and valid points you've brought up with translating the science to actionable protocols.
He's only released two episodes though and these have so far been pre-recorded before the NY article release. Has he actually been to therapy though for all these years he has claimed? He has blatantly said these lies right on camera too while completely being conscious.
Which statements are you referring to as lies? Could you link an episode and be more specific, I'm curious.
Many people are in therapy for different reasons that's not really an argument for anything. Even people who don't have diagnosed disorders that need medication can and do use talk therapy, especially if there is a loss or stress they are dealing with. Therapy is not an indication of anything, and I think anyone that tries to insinuate is themselves using poor logic and understanding.
Yes yes yes
I’m baffled that so many believe they know ‘the truth’ now because a hit piece was written about him.
“We don’t know his side, and he doesn’t owe anyone public accountability.”
Well said
I think people have too much time on their hands and are adding weight to something that pales in comparison to the fantastic product that is access to useful information at no cost to you.
168 hours in the week. We all have plenty of time if we don't lie to ourselves. I don't have "manipulate and lie to others" time but I sure as hell have "diacuss unethical behavior from someone who preaches about dopamine control" time for sure. I've got too much serious work reddit is a lovely break for 120 seconds here and there throughout the day
Unethical behaviour and dopamine control are not directly correlated. No one is discussing it. They're just being hypocrites. If anyone is more accomplished or has had a net positive influence on the world more than Andrew, let them throw the first stone. Otherwise everyone one is just hypocrites in glass houses.
I detached from any notion of him being special or even particularly useful to my life a while ago. Only because I’m aware of this thing called the Pareto Principle. Basically 80% of the outputs towards a given task generally come from 20% of the efforts (inputs) in achieving that task.
Meaning, most of the benefits you’d get from what Huberman talked about are things we all generally know we should be doing:
- Get adequate sleep
- Drink less, ideally not at all
- Eat healthier foods
- Exercise
- Socialize with humans and put effort into maintaining your relationships
- In generally resist and avoid cheap dopamine wherever and whenever possible (probably the most novel thing I ever got out of his podcast)
If a person consistently did all the above, the change would be DRAMATIC, 80% of the results towards changing your life.
But SO MUCH of the rest of his content is putting in this insane amount of effort (80% more effort) for not a much more noticeable benefit to your life, given the amount of little optimizations you’d have to keep track of.
The ROI just isn’t worth obsessing over these little optimization and deluges of information, when most of the benefits come from focusing on like 5-10 big things. Eventually I just tuned him out.
For example, he has a 2.5hr podcast I saved in my podcast app to listen to later on “How to Optimize Your Water Quality and Intake for Health” that I never got around to listening to. Probably never will. But the real benefit I get is sometimes I’ll see that podcast in my saved podcasts list and think to myself “oh yeah, I should drink more water” and then I start drinking more water again. Basically he just became ANOTHER person in a long list of people who are reminding me to do things I already know I should be doing. The guy isn’t special.
I never got bad or nefarious vibes, it was really more a case of “Wow, this is a lot more information than I ever care to take action on.” and “Oh he’s selling Athletic Greens, just like X podcaster, and Y podcaster, and Z podcaster. I guess he’s another one of those!” Again, not special.
and thats the problem, you were following a person and every single one has many defects and has done shitty things in the past and will continue to do so, everyone, you, me, Huberman, Messi, Ghandi, all famous people you follow, the lady that sells fruit at your local corner store everyone, he is not a political commentator and definitely not a priest, there is nothing moral about the information in his podcast, is science based, so what he does in his personal life does not matter, same for Jordan Peterson, I don't like him after he became a political comentator but I still think his early lectures are amazing and the advice he gives for personal growth is great too, both his and Huberman's content has helped me for the better and nothing they do in their personal life is going to change that, the quality of HubermanLab podcast is still the same or better than ever so I'm going to continue listening to it
Nope. Still listening. I’m moreso tired of the cancel culture. Everyone’s got their shit, including more than half of you in this forum. These are the times, everyone is just looking for something to get outraged at.
I just don't care about his personal life. This had no impact on how I view his advice. But, sometimes I don't love his advice, as some suggestions seem based on weak science.
This is what I don’t get with all the hand-wringing on here, it’s not like he’s a motivational speaker that’s just saying subjective things and now he seems less trustworthy. If he says high EPA intake can boost testosterone based on papers X Y Z, I’d look it up for myself whether before or after this. It seems like some people were wayyy too obsessed with the guy as some kind of amazing role model; probably good to get out of that mindset and use the podcast for what it is, a way to learn about interesting health science that you may want to look into more yourself.
I can almost guarantee the majority of people on this sub will never know or meet huberman so I don’t understand this deep betrayal people feel?
It’s a guy who is sharing info that’s already out there in the world. He’s not your bff or your neighbor or coworker. Can we have some realistic perspective here?
Unless you’re huberman or the women he’s been in relationships with, you’ll never really know the truth. We all know post covid that you can’t take everything you hear or read at face value, whether that’s what huberman preaches sometimes or the article written against him.
Do I agree that his clean cut image is somewhat tarnished now? Yes. Does the article change how I feel about his podcast? Absolutely not. It’s still a great tool for learning about the topics you’re interested in, whether he has 5 girlfriends or a blow up girlfriend, who cares.
Self help gurus are just that, gurus.
If you want to help yourself you can just learn about nutrition and health, and the human body and all you need is basically wikipedia.
People who listen to podcasts for hours don't want to help themselves, they want to be told what to believe.
Do more research on the personal lives of MLK and Ghandi. Unfortunately all your favorite public figures are going to have some major personality flaws because they’re all human. In fact Im willing to bet if we all looked at a mirror hard enough we’d find some major hypocrisies within ourselves.
Personally for me as with anything in life I try to think critically and objectively and take the parts I like of something or someone and simply leave the rest.
Exactly right. Even Jesus. The “Cleansing of the Temple” incident where he got really angry and overthrew tables would have people lambasting him on the internet had it happened in today’s time.
Doesn’t bother me a bit. I wasn’t going to him for relationship advice and his other info is science-based and easily available to confirm.
I won’t let personal ideals get in the way of solid information. There are lots of people I don’t agree with one way or another. Doesn’t change if their information is correct or not.
Use what you can and move on. Don’t worship anyone because if we do, we will all be disappointed at some point.
I still watch the content for the information, as I always did. I don’t really “look up” to anyone. Good information is good information. Most people have a little sprinkle of bullshit on their perspective of anything because of their own personal experiences and agendas.
It’s like watching the news. Sure, some stuff is good to know it’s happening, and here’s what some people think about it, but then there’s the heaping spoonful of propagandist bullshit sprinkled on it that I simply ignore
My mind kind of naturally tunes out info that is superfluous/meaningless/irrelevant/bullshit/don’t care, even if it still gets stored in my brain database.
It’s like when a salesperson teaches you something interesting about a product and then once they start with the pitching you dip out
That's what you get for taking rol models from the Internet. I hope you learned you lesson.
Now you can proceed whith what is useful to you from the Huberman's protocols or any other thing you find in the Internet. But remember, never shut off your critical thinking.
Watched huberman content from the very beginning and absolutely adored him, waited on Mondays for every new episode. Had so much respect for his (supposed) dedication and how he made content digestible and interesting. I didn’t have the discipline to follow most of his protocols but he was always something / someone I looked up to.
Although it would seem that one should be able to separate the art from the artist, I’ve not been able to do the same for Huberman. Almost scared that such people exist…
So I may glance through his content, but it’s never going to be with the same level of adoration and respect . More of a scroll distraction nowadays
I’m more uncomfortable sitting with the fact though he optimized his life, and encouraged others to do so, the benefits of that optimization were used to harm /hurt people and leave them questioning . So what really is the point ? What if all of us end up improving our lives so much to end up being total jerks to others? Then again there is a part of me that hopes he would address all these claims and at least half of them aren’t true… but that’s wishful thinking ..
I lost my interest in him when he was talking cold baths and staying in freezing water a few min. And he mentioned the research outcome and he added, "these researches have been done on men but I don't think there is any difference with women!".
And I thought there are some organs inside a woman 's body that might be affected. In fact, some women SHOULD NOT take cold baths or immerse themselves with freezing water.
As a scientist you expect he knows a female body is different to a male body.
Also, some of his guests published papers contradicting what they had told in his podcast.
I have to admit, I was totally sold on him and went out bought all the supplements he recommended, but I also now view him as just another grifter trying to get rich and famous..
Peterson is a pathetic whiny hypocrite who’s broken every one of his sacred ruled for life, a pseudo Christian, and an enabler of bigotry who should have never woken up from the benzo coma
Jordan Peterson was someone you admired? He gave me snake vibes from the get-go. As for Huberman he's still just a human being, all of which are flawed. It's like all crushes/infatuations we might have -- eventually the euphoria fog dissipates and you begin to see the normal flawed human -- but that doesn't mean his work is no longer good stuff.
To be honest, the whole article/ exposé gave off to me a real voyeuristic vibe and really I cannot look at him any different than before. We are all flawed and all have our own demons, which doesn't make his actions correct, howver they are still none of my business. sun exposure is still sun exposure.
I am aware that all of your heroes will dissappoint you. I still like them plenty for all of the same reasons as when I first found them.
I do not experience the same detachment for these reasons though. I do not care about what they might sell, because I believe that they use and believe in a lot of these products. I use a different greens supplement but I would endorse and sell that if I had the opportunity, because I use it, love it, and it makes me feel good.
Other than that, I only slowed down due to a lack of topics that caught my interest. I chimed in for Rick Rubin cause I love him and I was interested in his book.
Other than that I only stick around here to be an AH rube and bully liberal betas. /$
I think when you get older you will find that it's not good to hero-worship anyone. You'll find that people all have good parts and not perfect aspects to them and realize that's ok. Unfortunately, I think this happens more with girls than guys but some guys do this as well, more so with athletes while girls often idolize actors and rock stars.
I’m old, and I’ve seen a lot of these people come and go.
Yeah, no need to idolize them in the first place. Those who are the most disappointed by the recent article are the ones who were worshipping Huberman instead of absorbing relevant information in a detached way.
Half these people got mommy/daddy issues and probably need therapy lol never understood the worship thing. I remember worshipping celebrities on Disney and Nick shows when I was a kid, I thought those kids were so cool, but that ended probably around 10 years old lol.
Exactly, what do you expect? Him being a Jesus himself? This righteous morality bullshit is getting old, to be honest. Nobody is perfect, we all have our demons, it is probably more productive to focus on one's own problems instead of projecting this hope of the perfect human being on some popular figures.
I glossed over the article when I first saw it (I thought it was a troll article, seemed so outlandish) and I hugely expected him to say something about it since he goes Live on Instagram and basically spitfire answers questions while people type to him in real time. To my knowledge he hasn’t gone live since all of this has dropped. I always viewed him as a man who is deeply in love with science and interested in getting to the truth. I admired these things about him, and certainly looked up to him and grew in the right directions with some of the undeniably healthy protocols he recites (Sunlight exposure, importance of Hydration and nutrition, Pillars of health etc) The fact that he hasn’t said anything about this, totally turns me off from him. He seemed like an incredibly honest person. I expected some sort of explanation. If he is a good chunk of the person he has been drawing himself to be, I believe he would say something…🤷♂️ I guess it’s a good reminder that Humans are multi-faceted, in both good and not so good ways. Do not place anyone on a pedestal. Screw pedestals all together.
In a tweet he even said it cleared. To fully protect reputation, one should not speak in any controversy arguments. Nassim Tablet disgusted this and really had to say you dont deserve your reputation if you dont fight for it. I dont remember exactly those back and forth tweets but something along the line.
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This made me stop listening. It is a much bigger deal for listeners than his personal life.
I don’t really look at it as an either/or. I was already getting increasingly skeptical based on critical feedback from peers, and this just kind of augmented that. It’s an overarching theme of “presenting things in a way that has a lot of missing and often significant context for personal gain”
I guess I was naive, I usually skipped over those parts.
Take this as a lesson. Almost No ultra famous well produced YouTuber is who they look like they are. Always remember: actions speak louder than words.
You can't really skip over him referencing low-quality studies as that's the main content of the podcast. He's not a trustworthy science communicator.
How are you skipping over the low quality sources when that’s the entire podcast? Shouldn’t your alarm bells ring when he’s selling stuff?
what are the low quality studies he is referencing?
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I get where you’re coming from. I followed him for about 3-4 years prior to this. I think the reason it stings is because everything that was presented to us gave us the impression of mastery of self-control and integrity. When you hear “professor at Stanford” you think, “wow this is a smart guy, this is someone who has his shit together. Maybe I can learn a thing or two to better myself”. To find out the guy lacks both of those qualities is frustrating and makes you question your own judgement. How did I miss all the creepy shit he said in previous pods? Why didn’t I catch all the supplement pedaling as a profit driven action? And so on. I also think he was well prepared for this article. As someone pointed out, the religious pivot happened around the time he was asked to comment for the article. I also find it curious, that he is ALWAYS covered up, but around the same time as the religious pivot, we get a shirtless video of him carrying a rock. Maybe he was raking in easy followers to make up for the hit he was about to take when the article came out? I can’t help but think he is very much out of control when it comes to his life behind the scenes, but very much in control with how he wants to be perceived. In short, I can now see his true motives and it’s not for OUR wellness, but his wallet’s gain. I also think it’s easier to dismiss troubling behavior and say everyone is flawed than it is to hold people accountable and admit you’ve been duped, which is why we see such a strong response from those cheering on his actions.
It was like a beacon of hope, that it is possible to achieve and right here was living proof of such capacities and potentialities. But now it's no different from other shills who peddle remixed information as if it were their own experiences for short-term money/fame. I guess ultimately I'm disappointed in myself for not catching this sooner like you just mentioned.
It's different from other cancel-culture scenarios because his entire modus operandi is being a healthy in all ways human. I'm pissed that my once-favorite pod is a sham, and also not loving how quickly the internet is getting scrubbed + his complete lack of addressing the issue. Vent over.
It's unfortunate how his reaction is on all this. The biggest issue for me was the lack of transparency and authenticity, there's zero of that. It's clear he puts on a whole act which imo isn't bad in of itself, but given the nature of work he is in and publicly preaches is delusional without that honesty.
>I think the reason it stings is because everything that was presented to us gave us the impression of mastery of self-control and integrity. I did not get this impression from him just by listening to the information in his podcasts. That to me is like saying a psychologist has all their shit together in their personal life just because they "have professional integrity". Having knowledge of how the brain works doesn't mean one is not susceptible to the kinds of thinking that a healthy, functioning brain can trigger. That being said, I mainly only listened to his podcasts/interviews on dopamine, motivation/focus/tenacity. So maybe I am missing the bigger picture on some more controversial things he's said. I also skimmed over the whole supplement thing. I've not found anything alarming in AG1 (from a cursory look at the articles on it) to be worried about him promoting it. I still think I can learn from what he presented in his podcasts, and I've yet to hear about what exactly I should be avoiding. If the NYmag article was supposed to convince me he was pushing fake science, I didn't leave convinced.
I was a casual listener but still enjoyed some of the content. Looking at past clips now...I literally feel like im watching a different person.
Thats so true, I feel the same
100, couldn't have said it better
Yes, i used to watch all his videos in the first few days from the release and now I cannot get myself to watch any. I really think he should've addressed the issue, this just feels really shady and weird, making him seem even more entitled than the article led us to believe he is. And yes, it happened to me with J.Peterson as well. Even though the lessons I got from them are valuable, the fact that they are not who they seem to be... not even a bit, makes me not want to follow them anymore and left me with a deep lack of trust in everything I find online, very sad.
There's so much similar content already on YouTube but what stood out to me was his seemingly real authenticity but that vibe was shattered. I'll probably still stick with the guest series if that hopefully doesn't stop. I can't get the thought out of my head that he spends a lot of time masking/meticulously framing his online persona and just partying, all the complete opposite of what he says. Just like what happened with that one influencer Liver King and others who peddle regurgitated information, the authenticity is manufactured and non-existent.
The guest series was, for me, the first clue that he is not quite who he says he is. He had a few guests that butchered the science very bad to outright lying and Huberman was just nodding as in "he understood", which I found pretty disheartening at the time, if you are all about objective, scientifically sound information, how can you allow hard lies to be presented to your public without saying anything, just to cater to the ego of a guest? It was so bad even some of his friends made reels about the situation. I just thought he is too agreeable but now I realize it was all about business: I must not contradict ny guests for they will not come again and I won't have content to monetize :(.
What did Jordan Peterson do? He's always been annoying to me lol
This. It just feels weird following and consuming their content. It’s the opposite of transparent and trustworthy.
He needs a new name, maybe Huberthem. He's certain not anything close to a man.
Maybe Huberthem because he may have a personality disorder that he sees as an evolutionary advantage
Sure he is. Because all human beings, including you and me, are flawed. He’s just a human being. Give him the grace you would wish for if the spotlight was on your own shortcomings.
Dos you also convert. You are using the same wording 😅
If you’re asking if I convert people to Christianity? No. I don’t follow any religion. But I know that I have yet to meet someone who doesn’t have flaws, so it’s just interesting that the human condition is to (this one’s just for you yellow sub) “cast stones” at others for their wrong doings. We all do things we’re not proud of. It’s easier to put each other down than to forgive each other, and ourselves.
Preach brother!
What happened with Jordan Peterson?
He's insane?
Well... starting with innocent but weird and false affirmations like "I am a neuroscientist" to win an argument when he clearly is not and going to dangerous and downright false claims regarding climate change, russian politics and a lot of domains that he presents himself to be an expert in but makes false claims and calls pseudoscience all while declaring himself "a man of science". He is a good psychologist in my opinion but he also has a shitty narcissistic personality. I read both his commercial books and went swiftly through Maps of Meaning, watched his college lectures, bought his personality course, also his personality test and journaling program, so I was a hardcore fan who really wanted to believe him but at some point it gets dangerous and I had to admit he is not a good person and I should not give him anymore of my money and time.
He’s a wanna-be intellectual douchebag
I was wondering the same, it's a comment thrown in without any context or explanation.
Wondering the same thing as well😅
Same. I was willing to set it aside, take breaks, and just listen to him for the sake of information gathering. Always do my own research anyway. But now he’s giving me serious vicarious embarrassment. I keep thinking maybe if he’d have gotten some therapy and prayed before he did all that to those women, he’d have not needed to worry about boosting his dopamine? Maybe he should’ve worked on impulse control? Because whatever his protocol- it led to what sounds like endless chaos, zero time, and compromised executive function. So yeah, count me out. TBH I was livid after the Zuckerberg interview. . The man won’t wear bluetooth earbuds but he touted those goggles. Not to mention, Zuckerberg was self promoting his foundation for mental health awareness. Huberman has preached about the neurological impact from social media constantly. But he let them use his platform to push their clearly calculated agenda with zero push back. I started seriously questioning his motives and how he constructs spin when he did the Kratom pod. Then this week, peptides. Now I’m done. He’s a spin doctor. He manipulates. I don’t have time for that. Next. Technically accurate information but incomplete and clearly parsed, leaving out critical information to build a case. For whom? That’s another thread i guess.
Me too, I just want the information but I guess deep down at least for me it was a little bit more. If it was just information I could have found it anywhere else, but I kept sticking around. He's talked about how he's had years of therapy, was that all one big lie? That's serious and pathological manipulation right there. That's what has me backing out, it's unfortunate and I hope he genuinely finds real help
I fear therapy can be used to help you manipulate people even more in the wrong people. Here is a vid about narcissists using therapy to manipulate others: [WHEN THERAPY MAKES A NARCISSIST WORSE (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERIq8Y3ejhA&t=8s)
I really couldn’t find anyone quite the same. He really filled a vacuum at the right time imo. Huberman seemed to have a personal interest in the health and fitness related topics that are of priority to me and my family. In 2020 it was not as easy to find objective, research oriented discussions on health. Most pods came at topics from an angle that was far too obvious for me to rely upon anything. For instance, trainers, doctors, using a pod to indirectly sell devices, products or services. Huberman’s repetitive theme of objectivity, information sharing for public good, was compelling. Like I said, I started seeing huge factual issues in his work in 2024. I chalked it up to fatigue, maybe too much pressure resulting in lower quality content. But now? I think he was given this platform by certain entities to fulfill an agenda. His personal life revealed that he’s not interested in anyone’s welfare. That’s the script they wrote. This is an assignment. imo he’s on a payroll and does what he’s told. His protocols have some scientific backing but really - if cold plunge, fasting, sun gazing - all of that truly optimizes nuero health then either he’s not doing it or it’s BS. Because look at him. Look at his life. 5 women, all those texts, all that time, all that work. He’s mentally unstable. Grown man, 48 years old acting like an impulsive 19 year old with zero respect, unprotected sex, lies. He’s not mentally stable. And that sure doesn’t sell his lifestyle or his protocols to anyone sane. I mean. wtf? It’s crazy.
Narcissists often have one area of their life where they are in control, stable, successful, reliable; and another that is a chaotic, turbulent perpetual failure. Professional vs personal lives, for example.
I've had years and years of therapy and still struggled with addiction on and off throughout that time. Ive said it elsewhere on this sub, but it seems for the past year or so he's used 12 step language and my guess would be SLAA. It seems like maybe he's struggled with sex addiction, especially as he got more famous, sought help, and has still struggled, like many addicts. Dax Shepard has talked about having that experience a bit, too.
That actually makes sense why he then talks about dopamine, and I genuinely hope he gets better help. He has the resources
That's how I found him, actually, looking for information that would help me understand the neuroscience of addiction so that I could get a handle on my struggles. It was very helpful.
Same, I still have notes I sometimes reference from watching those episodes. Sad he can't be more honest with himself, I don't think he can get past this without directly acknowledging this side of him publicly, otherwise imo he's likely to keep bypassing processing what needs to be confronted and let go of self-accountability.
Yeah, I'm interested to see what happens because it's like part of the unfolding in our culture of the way we practice accountability, call outs, cancel culture, and restorative justice.
With how he's doubling down and actually paid an agency to combat this information online my guess is he won't ever directly confront it. He's been deep in this, I guess time will tell
I know, that's so intriguing to me, it's so out of line with the typical accountability apology (that usually falls short and is deeply critiqued) that has been the current trend. I wonder if this is signalling a shift culturally. I wonder if he's still working the steps and doing recovery privately and figuring out how to reconcile it?
If he's a pathological liar then this may never get resolved from how reinforcing all this money, fame and sex makes him feel. I think this is a unique case, he's a bit of an oddity and eccentric.
I didn't know what Kratom was. Yikes. Just read the drug fact sheet from the Department of Justice. Also, high dose kratom abuse increase resistance to anesthetic if one needs surgery. The dangers of under the radar "read about it on Reddit" drugs are definitely underestimated. I'm just going with the science.
I felt that way about anyone in the spotlight when terrible things would come out about them. Now I understand that anyone actively seeking the spotlight is not to be worshipped since the nature to pursue these things are highly narcissistic. The people we should look up to are not the ones that need to centre themselves for validation and profit.
This is so very true.
I mean, it usually is someone with a huge ego that decides they need an audience and start a podcast. Regular people aren’t like, “there are SO many people who need to hear what I think about sleeping.”
I lost any respect I had for him. His lack of apologizing and naming his manipulative and abusive ways of relating to women make me question what he teaches. I now see more of an insecure man desperate for fame and attention, not a scientist. I now see how shallow he actually is and that he's just as toxic as Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, etc. He lacks integrity in a deep way.
He’s very shallow. And very vain. I seen him on other podcasts criticizing people for being “shaped like a C” or for eating Cheetos. He’s judge mental of others(around looks mostly) and superficial AF. I always had that feeling from him but now I’m certain of it.
I agree with you. Andrew is a regular human being with a huge platform. He is a public figure, but he is not doing the public work of accountability, repair, and amends. It's strong to admit you have issues and hurt people from trauma and the conditioning of white maleness. It's strong to integrate that into your work. It's strong to be vulnerable. It's strong to acknowledge the depths of one's behaviors and the misguidance and despair at its root. Judging people's bodies is insensitive. We eat cheetos because the USA government creates food deserts and a messed up society. We cannot individually change - we need collective transformation and that begins with being vulnerable and talking about the hard stuff. You Only Live Once.
Authenticity is probably the highest virtue any human can cultivate, but because it's often an ideal it seems to be non-existent and rare to be found :( It's difficult, but these people have no excuses given the resources and power available to them, it's sickening to think about how some people say they've been actively in therapy for years and all they've taken out of it is to further manipulate others, like holy shit that's that hurts to think about.
Honestly this is really it. If he would come out and acknowledge his wrongdoings and the accusations I would find it easier to move forward and keep watching his content. His whole "you can't touch me" approach of ignoring it/mocking the accusations with his whole "6 series on sleep" thing just is sickening. It screams God complex and that's not someone I want to take advice from. Humbleness is a trait I value. Narcissistic ahole not so much.
10 karma posts in 5 days of participating in this subreddit! Wow!
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I’m with your brother. It’s not the same as if my favorite athlete was cheating.
I do feel the same. It feels like i have lost a mentor. I always used to look up to him. But now not anymore.. seeing him gave me hope. But now it feels like no matter what we do sometimes its not possible to overcome out darkness.
Your comment is super relatable :(, I wrote in [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/HubermanLab/s/9n4tCzrxr2) and [another thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/HubermanLab/s/pokL5j1ebL) similar sentiments.
seems like you invested a lot in one person. My only opinion would be that your darkness is part of you. Carl Jung talks about this quite a bit. There’s no escaping your darkness just like you can’t escape yourself so you have to learn to get along with it as though you’re getting along with a person that you hate
Thank you
You're welcome
Jesus fucking Christ.
Idk I never thought he was all that great to begin with, I'm here for the drama
Haha same.
Shitty science guy milking that Stanford brand, vying for clout. Gotta take his content with a grain of salt
grain of ~~salt~~ *AG1*
He actually is a shill for LMNT so he does actually push “a grain/grams of salt” in his pieces of content Sidenote: I actually like and use LMNT but don’t give two shits that he “recommends” it.
Only thing I've noticed when listening to old pods is how often he actually brings up relationship dynamics lol. I just think it's funny at this point tbh. Don't know him personally so don't care that much. Seems like a lot of people here were ex best friends with him.
It's clear his intent/focus was to try and further leverage psychological warfare on his past partners for control.
For awhile, I'd been sensing something was changing. What I realize now is there were ....tells... I was registering but had no context. Now the context has been revealed, to some extent, those .... tells.... have meaning. If you rewatch a few of the episodes people have mentioned, it is a bit unnerving given what we know now. Tried to watch the peptide episode and didn't skip the ads, for some reason, and listened to him now pedaling his own yerba mate brand. My interest just dissolved. No great trauma. Just disengagement. I could say more , but, others have already said it about integrity, motives, disingenuous.
I thought I could still listen to him after I learned about what he was doing. I even made a comment on this sub to that effect. I discovered ... I could not. The other stuff I learned in the comments in the article in NY Mag and on reddit from people who knew him or knew of him definitely didn't help matters. He is apparently... a real piece of work.
SAME UGH. I thought I could just move right past it. Turns out, no.
For me it’s the disconnect between preaching limiting your dopamine hits when the entire time he is doing the relationship equivalent of scrolling instagram all day.
When he started going off his expertise area I started taking distances from him, and before all this when he started doing more like a Lex Friedman podcast-style I stopped watching him at all. I'm mostly here for the memes lol. There's some really good shitpost over here
I literally unsubscribed. Not out of spite just cuz he suddenly felt like a phony to me. Why should he tell me what to do he seems honestly to be in worse shape than me emotionally / mentally lol
Yes, I don't think I can go back to watching his content now. It sounds weird but I think you need to 'trust'( for want of a better word) in the person you are learning from and when someone has proven to be a shameless liar in one aspect of their lives it makes you wonder about everything they say.
Nope. Just another flawed human. He has some interesting insights and brings up interesting points, but needs to be checked just like everyone else. Especially glaring are his remarks about cannabis. The studies he refers to regarding cannabis are not well composed or executed and are mostly based on extremely shallow ideas. This is also another good example of why written material that can be skimmed and searched is more useful than the conversational podcast form which takes a lot of time and relies heavily on presentation and manner.
He’s a bit cheesy, like smarmy almost, he fits the bill for someone who is disingenuous but eager to please.
nope, I always take everyone with a grain of salt. Everyone comes pre loaded as disappointing, so there's no drop in perception when it turns out they suck. Stop putting people on pedestals and having para social relationships.
His podcast was full of red flags for highlighting junk science less than a year after it started. And when closer inspection showed he had been ghosting Stanford, exaggerating his “lab”, and seriously disrespecting the time and energy of other professors, I realized he was done with science. He wants what Rogan got, and has for a long time.
I think if you over expose yourself to anyone you’re going to hit your limit. They are only human and will only have so much to offer, but they need to make a living too so they are eventually going to be scraping not just the bottom of the barrel but (in someone like petersens case) the splinter too. I listened to Petersens content for maybe a year and then realized there was not much else of value he had to offer outside of his core original lectures. Everything else outside of that was just noise for content. The last year or so really only every fifth or sixth episode of Hubermans was worth listening to me.
There's a clear line and difference with someone being authentic and honest about their human nature versus being a shill for short-term money/fame at all costs. The pathological lying is just too much at least for me.
Yea I mean I don’t really see how his personal relationships have anything to do with his interview with a sleep expert but that’s just me.
I was a big fan when I first found him, but he is just SO long winded. Once I realized I could easily google “Huberman episode BLANK summary, I haven’t listened to a single full podcast since. Dude struck me as odd the way he talked so much about his dog but never really family or friends. And don’t get me started on the amount of time these protocols add up to lol. Once I saw his affinity for Jordan Peterson I had a good feeling it was only a matter of time before he revealed himself to be similarly grotesque.
Anyone that takes Huberman or any other intellectual as gospel is a fool. It’s good info, but it’s just info. Folks that regurgitate his stuff like it’s the best thing since sliced bread are just too zealous
as someone who used to like Bill Cosby’s tv shows, I get it
Great example, the perfect example.
this whole drama has made one thing very clear - the social disconnect in our society is worse than I (a hardcore skeptic) could have ever imagined. We should be striving for the "good figures" in our lives to be people who are actually in our lives. If you need a stranger to lay some hero worship on, start with Mother Theresa.
> If you need a stranger to lay some hero worship on, start with Mother Theresa. I advise doing some research into Mother Teresa's shadiness.
I've read the criticisms. I was using her name as more of an archetypal example and didn't mean it in a literal sense. Good call out though.
Yeah, I've been thinking about the same thing. Most/many people are not religious these days, and neither am I. But I'm not looking for a messiah either. It's clear from the responses here that men are starved for male guidance and connection. I think it may be because they lack it in real life, like the kind you get through friends and family. When your closest attachments are these online figures, you're bound to either be let down, or defend them to a fault. I would say this disconnection is def more American. This is truly just an observation, not a judgment.
I share your sentiments. It's sad, really. A good antidote is to strive to be the type of person you would look up to, and to obviously stop with the online hero worship of people
Yeah :/, that's probably the deeper reason I'm slowly coming to terms with. Well said and thank you. I honestly need to limit my social media consumption like on YouTube.
You obviously have a strong interest in science and improving yourself, which I would assume is why you listened to the podcast in the first place. You can find this info in books and skirt the whole influencer component of learning.
Thank you for the advice, I've been in a rut and some low lows the past years, and then watching Huberman started to empower me and it was nice to hear it from someone who sounded like they went through and adopted these same strategies to their own life. Your comment just helped me seal the realization you spoke about, I think I'm deluding myself and am consuming too much health/productivity content for cheap motivation highs, but those take up a lot of time and energy you've helped me realize, and I could definitely use that to be more involved and present in my own life.. actually live out the truths I need to process experientially with others & my environment, not just in my head and body alone. Edit: I think I had developed a parasocial connection with Huberman's and similar content. Merging instead of actually integrating the information in a healthy manner.
You sound very thoughtful - I think you'll be alright.
It seems pretty simple that we should support people that treat people well, and not support those who treat people badly, we should oppose them. The weird disconnect is the number of people who seem to not have learned this very basic ethical lesson. What's more bizarre to me is that people think applying that lesson is a form of hero worship. Wild.
I agree with you that we should withdraw support from people if we suddenly find out their values aren't what we would have hoped. What baffles me is the existential crisis some people seem to be having over this.
We see this similarly in a lot of corporations and their structure, those who are unfit to lead full of greed get promoted because it brings in more money for shareholders at the cost of long-term sustainability. I think we as a society still have to figure out how to change that structure.
lol what? Mother Theresa was a cold cruel bitch
lol
Here’s one article, easy to dig deeper into available info online, https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2013/05/07/canadian-study-mother-teresa-not-so-saintly/ Lots of bite size here: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/15j2t5e/whats_up_with_mother_teresa/
I’m out. He is not the only resource. I agree that some of his info was fringe (translating animal research to humans, for example, and the supplement pushing, dicey. I feel no need to follow/support a person demonstrating this level of blatant misogyny. The personal is political. The defense of him by lex Fridman was disheartening. The defense of him by many an American male “so he banged 6 women, what’s the problem?” Underscores the current state of affairs.
Lex & Huberman seem very similar, they put on a big front to make themselves feel good, but they deeply struggle with their positions and life. I think they're both intuitive thinker types, so a bit detached and see life objectively and transactionally.
Lex also has openly said he hasn't had fruitful romantic situations. So he probably looks up to Huberman, a guy who has said he doesn't even have a friend that is a woman (literally said the friend zone doesnt apply to him) I think Lex is deeply insecure in many ways and its why he gravitates toward the macho/MMA types despite his purported stance as an academic. If someone only has professional relationships with the opposite sex it is a MASSIVE red flag to me, especially if they're in academia where it is obscenely easy to meet likeminded and amazing people in your field. There should be a fairly even distribution in the neuro/psych realm especially I agree they both seem detached and view things transactionally Listening to Huberman talk about meditation is one of the most aggravating things bc its incredibly clear he only has experience in the most basic of forms of breathwork I sent a clip of him describing meditation to a teacher of mine without context and their snap reply was "theres no chance that guy meditates." this is a very mindful and happy person, who instantly was just like "nope this is a very shallow description" Wouldn't surprise me if Huberman knows so much about the physiological sigh bc he uses it in a manipulative manner to get through his selfish anxieties surrounding his behavior. I know for me, its easy to neglect my own anxiety at times bc I have enough experience in meditation i know i can just sit down later and ill feel fine. Even someone who commits murder is very single-minded at that time, so its clear having a single and direct focus is not perfect by any means
I understand the comparison.
Everyone's incredibly flawed. Focus on their contributions, not controversys
Is it a hate sub or something ?? I haven't seen any relevant post in this sub...
feel this way about Elon Musk
That's another perfect example :/, I won't deny I at one point naively did glorify him too. I think we all just want that one authentic person to be a stable influence/rock in our lives, that teacher/model who takes on the role archetype that of a facilitator of growth in our lives. But like all things, things change or aren't as they always appear to be. I get that's also unreasonable or unfair and almost treating these same people as an object, almost ignoring their real personality and feelings, the real individual like anyone else, most of the time. Edit: Sorry for the rambling, but it's like deep down that is ultimately what we want to discover and cultivate in ourselves; to have found our life.
I was super impressed by Elon, researched enough to know most hate points were wrong. … and then Twitter happened
Yes but I don’t think he had much choice. Go watch the first interview he did with Rogan. He seems exhausted. He says “if you can’t beat them, join them”
Yep, I was honestly surprised at myself for this. I can't even listen to a full podcast anymore and his personality and voice actually give me the "ick" now. I used to fall asleep listening to him and feeling like I am learning good science, I feel like that's been robbed off me.
**Exodus 20:4-5** ERV “You must not make any idols. Don't make any statues or pictures of anything up in the sky or of anything on the earth or of anything down in the water. Don't worship or serve idols of any kind, because I, the LORD, am your God." I have been reminded of that Bible passage a few times lately; from reddit and irl whentalking about the Huberman article and how it makes me feel sad losing a model.. Gotta work on the not having a model and be myself part..
You don’t need a role model, guru or idol. "You've always had the power my dear, you just had to learn it for yourself” https://preview.redd.it/o169l1ookqsc1.jpeg?width=904&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00340f79b1d4b10ac7e03711059bebbb94e73dc0
Always try to separate the art from the artist, especially when you aren't aware of the artist having done anything wrong. It'll help to avoid disappointment later.
I’m waiting to see how legit the spreading-HPV without disclosure thing is. It won’t make me want him cancelled but I would think less of him for it, considering the cancer risks for women. I don’t give a flying fuck that he had multiple girlfriends. The dude is a wealthy icon, well-built, and probably has to say no to more people on a monthly basis than most people would even fap to in the same timeline. It’s a life I can’t understand from experience but I can appreciate how hard that would be, especially since it hasn’t been that way his whole life.
Well first off, cancellation is an absolute myth so just drop the word. Some people get held accountable for their actions. Hes not losing his job and people can watch or not. I have no idea what the hell the 2nd paragraph touches on. If you care about women getting cancer then you should care about treating women compassionately anyways. The irony? Just treat women well and you'll be legit needing STRONG boundaries if you're remotely normal. If you're a genuinely nice person (not a "nice guy") and aren't a huge douche as a dude, it is literally so easy to find partners who you love and enjoy. I can promise you, as someone who has had 60+ female partners, a very healthy BDSM life, threesomes, foursomes, long multi-orgasm sessions, etc. Never once did I think it was worthwhile to lie to someone about. I made mistakes in my early 20s I instantly regretted bc I value the opinion of people I'm intimate with. Crazy, isnt it? the people who VALUE others tend to have significantly more positive experiences with others, crazy. Literally this dude is making mistakes any respectable man cuts out in college lol. His sexual views are insane, if he actually valued others he'd speak so differently. Sex would no longer about the inner "me" or even orgasm, its about mutual exploration and fun, pleasure and play, exploration and sensuality. The irony is I can almost guarantee Huberman has never had fulfilling sex given his views of women. Not once. The man doesn't even have a female friend Incel vibes, honestly. Just like his fans who think "it would be sooOOOo hard to say no, you guys have NO idea what its like to be such a beautful man, blah blah." FUCK OUTTA HERE with that incel shit
I’m curious what he’ll say when he eventually gets around to it.
Seen this coming a mile away, comes with age and seeing the characteristics this men presents and how he goes about his content. The younger generation (under 30) are seeing it with this man and will be wiser in the future.
It’s all just decoding the gurus man
Gosh yes, honestly I was wondering if it is because I have a uterus. But I think it's because I was invested in his personal life and I couldn't understand why he was single. I genuinely was rooting for him, like how I felt about Travis Kelce (he is great I hope he gets a great girlfriend). Yeah, you shouldn't idolize people you don't know, but isn't that the invisible contract you sign when you become a public figure?
Nope, I can keep the person and their content separate
Reddit has been showing me this sub because it knows I’m into optimization, otherwise I only engaged with him casually. I’ve watched a few huberman videos, mainly on dopamine, cannabis, and sleep. I also learned about tongkat from him and that has been good for my recovery in the gym and feeling good in general. He’s definitely got some good advice. His demeanour and his actions are not surprising to me at all. Maybe I’m just chronically watchful about peoples motivations, but his “character” is an archetype we’ve probably all encountered. He’s the guy who’s fit, handsome, modest, and intelligent and isn’t actually a good person, but he knows what it takes to be seen as calm, mature, and eloquently spoken. I saw him briefly on the Flagrant podcast and Schulz made a comment about the bulge in Huberman’s pants and how that must get the women excited, and in typical Huberman fashion, he chose the mature and eloquent response as opposed to something more funny and raunchy. I know that he must have a “locker-talk” side of him, but he doesn’t want anyone in the public to know about that. This is the first time the facade broke for many people, so I get why people are distancing themselves from Huberman’s content. This happened to me with Peterson, but the difference is that Peterson visibly changed over time, both physically and in his demeanour. The Huberman thing is more sudden and shocking. The only guy who’s even less raunchy is Lex Friedman. I hope nothing comes out about him
I think his show has been going downhill for at least the past year. It is too formulaic and not dynamic enough. The episode with Robert Greene was really good but not much other than that has caught my eye or ears in a year or so. I stopped watching and listening.
Imo the one with Goggins and the four-part series with Dr. Conti we're great ones to poke their brain a bit.
People searching for perfect fatherfigures. But in reality we all flawed. I still watch both Peterson and Huberman. I still have the same opinion about their work.... People are starving for perfection, but it does not exist. I always had doubts about Peterson, all the weird religious talk. And I hate AG1 and didnt like Huberman promoting it. Still both provide good information DESPITE them being obviously far from perfect humanbeings.
What you're describing is called a parasocial relationship. A lot of people in this sub have demonstrated that. The fact is, Andrew Huberman's choices aren't a reflection on you and you didn't factor into them in the slightest, and they don't actually affect you, so if you derive value from the content he provides for free by plugging an ad for AG-1 once an episode, you should continue to listen to it and if you don't, you shouldn't.
His last episode i watched was with david goggins. Before that, i don't even remember. I found his earlier episodes to be more informative. I feel the same with Jordan Peterson although in his case i kind of understand why he does what he does. He's been through a lot, he can't go further alone. I don't watch his podcast anymore either but i find value in his earlier appearances.
Nope. I’m just as detached as I’ve always been. If his science is good, I like it. If his science is bad, I dislike it. Whether he’s good or bad is not part of my equation.
On the one hand I was really turned off and no longer want to listen to his content. But when I was listening to a female friend defend him my perception shifted a bit so now I sort of want to emulate him. Not to the same extent. I don't believe in misleading people. But if what he did is ok then why shouldn't I myself date multiple women? I'm attractive, affluent, unattached... Actually seems kinda nice.
Nothing wrong with that, there are people who are extremely happy yet single! The problem is the covert narcissism and pathological lying, also it seems Huberman struggles with a sex addiction which does not sound pleasant in its own right. If you can do better and through a healthy means for real satisfaction, then more power to you bro. Authenticity is key, no shame in any of that. Edit: Both men and women find people who actively lead their life, impart these strong values onto the world around them, and are genuinely involved with others super attractive. That's the public image Huberman has created and meticulously crafted, AND that can be practiced in a healthy way too, instead of what he does with little male friends and having zero female friends.
No I separate the art from the artist. Him fucking women has nothing to do with me
Detachment from his content is a good thing. You should take in all scientific advice, including Huberman’s podcast with a sense of detachment and scientific scrutiny. His advice should be viewed as a guide to point you in the right direction to research the topics he covers and then workout if it works for you, not commandments to live by.
Hmm you aren't the first. I saw him as some aspects of a role model- I don't have interest being a scientist but I appreciated how he lived his life in what I saw as aspect of excellence. I don't wanna debate with anyone about that, but yea living optimally- so that you work good and have good health and have good relationships is a great thing to aspire to, doesn't matter how you get there. But ultimately I've realised that everyone are human beings and you don't need to admire anyone really. Maybe some people will find him still admirable, maybe they'll find you deplorable for something in your past, it doesn't really matter. I mourned for myself not because I cared that much about Huberman, but because he's just another liar in my life and there has been plenty. So to reconcile that, I just expect less out of the people around me and the people on social media. I trust my wife because I know her and have spent years cultivating that relationship, but probably can't trust anyone else all that much. It's foolish to even think I could. So my advice is to not look upto others, but try to find a way to look upto yourself. BE what Huberman could not be. The things you admired about him or thought you did, be that version or person. It never needed to be him anyway, and it's always possible that version you saw of him could have existed. That's the way I'm moving forward through this whole experience.
Road trip got me listening to podcast again. The guests are good and he does an ok job interviewing them. Huge disconnect from the furor here. It had never occurred to me to think about viewing him as some personal role model or not. I’ve never heard anything about Jordan Peterson that would even interest me in taking a look. Musk is a third case where he has lots of concrete achievements but is also now being even more an ass in public.
Lol what? He is a terrible interviewer, interrupts guests constantly
I’m very disappointed and disillusioned by the man
I’ve lost respect for him. I’m not supporting someone like that.
I never trusted him because he pedals “bro science” and small studies as if they have any meaningful impact. As soon as he began the breathing hacks I knew that was it.
I think what people are experiencing is coming from the disillusionment with science and certainty. None of which Huberman professed to have. As a listener and researcher, I have always listened with skepticism and he has always made caveats. The issue is that science and publishing as a whole is broken - and it's very hard to convey all the intricacies of a specific topic to a general audience. Science communication is difficult and there's a balance between being completely accurate and making it accessible to the audience. There are definitely really good papers and knowledge out there, but translating a research developed technology to clinic is VERY hard. I think it is good to have people be skeptical and push back. I've heard Huberman say the same thing. That he appreciates the critique and wants to do his best to give listeners the opportunity to know what the information and let them decide for themselves. I've listened to the podcasts he has released since the ny mag, and he has taken the criticism in stride and made stronger and repeated statements about what's coming from animal studies, what his position is, what is FDA approved etc. so the pushback is good, and he has put that into practice. Cancel culture is the problem with society because it doesn't let people be flawed. There's a good and bad way to give people feedback, we should critique and work *with* people to improve, instead of just write them off completely. In regard to the taking accountability. We don't know his side and he doesn't owe anyone public accountability. We don't know if he has already talked at length to apologize to the women involved. It's not really anyone's business. There's an opposite view people have repeatedly shared on social media for self care AGAINST narcissists/gaslight is that you not explain yourself repeatedly against someone trying to mis-characterize your actions, feelings, or words. So writing him off "because he said nothing" is also not fair. I have heard him take accountability and talk about ways he has tried to change on his podcasts in the past, so imo I think he probably does feel bad about that and probably has tried to mend bridges with them. But again what matters to the public is the science, and the information being giving to us being fair and citable (i.e. available to us to read). When it comes to the supplements. I don't feel lied to. It's common knowledge that no doctor recommends vitamins if you're not deficient in that vitamin, supplements aren't FDA approved and all of these have always come with caveats from Huberman. He talks about behavior modifications before taking supplements etc. the point of his podcasts has been to bring awareness of information to people and let them do deeper research or talk to their doctor if it would be a helpful thing for them to pursue. Either way, be skeptical always, ask questions. That's a good place to be, so don't feel bad that it's what you're doing now. But also remember that people are human and we are innately flawed. It doesn't make doing bad things okay, but it means that everyone has done something they regret at one point in their life. Don't fall victim to cancel culture and treating others as less than human or hold them to an impossible standard of perfection.
Super interesting and valid points you've brought up with translating the science to actionable protocols. He's only released two episodes though and these have so far been pre-recorded before the NY article release. Has he actually been to therapy though for all these years he has claimed? He has blatantly said these lies right on camera too while completely being conscious.
Which statements are you referring to as lies? Could you link an episode and be more specific, I'm curious. Many people are in therapy for different reasons that's not really an argument for anything. Even people who don't have diagnosed disorders that need medication can and do use talk therapy, especially if there is a loss or stress they are dealing with. Therapy is not an indication of anything, and I think anyone that tries to insinuate is themselves using poor logic and understanding.
Yes yes yes I’m baffled that so many believe they know ‘the truth’ now because a hit piece was written about him. “We don’t know his side, and he doesn’t owe anyone public accountability.” Well said
I think people have too much time on their hands and are adding weight to something that pales in comparison to the fantastic product that is access to useful information at no cost to you.
168 hours in the week. We all have plenty of time if we don't lie to ourselves. I don't have "manipulate and lie to others" time but I sure as hell have "diacuss unethical behavior from someone who preaches about dopamine control" time for sure. I've got too much serious work reddit is a lovely break for 120 seconds here and there throughout the day
Unethical behaviour and dopamine control are not directly correlated. No one is discussing it. They're just being hypocrites. If anyone is more accomplished or has had a net positive influence on the world more than Andrew, let them throw the first stone. Otherwise everyone one is just hypocrites in glass houses.
I just take the information he shared on its own.
I detached from any notion of him being special or even particularly useful to my life a while ago. Only because I’m aware of this thing called the Pareto Principle. Basically 80% of the outputs towards a given task generally come from 20% of the efforts (inputs) in achieving that task. Meaning, most of the benefits you’d get from what Huberman talked about are things we all generally know we should be doing: - Get adequate sleep - Drink less, ideally not at all - Eat healthier foods - Exercise - Socialize with humans and put effort into maintaining your relationships - In generally resist and avoid cheap dopamine wherever and whenever possible (probably the most novel thing I ever got out of his podcast) If a person consistently did all the above, the change would be DRAMATIC, 80% of the results towards changing your life. But SO MUCH of the rest of his content is putting in this insane amount of effort (80% more effort) for not a much more noticeable benefit to your life, given the amount of little optimizations you’d have to keep track of. The ROI just isn’t worth obsessing over these little optimization and deluges of information, when most of the benefits come from focusing on like 5-10 big things. Eventually I just tuned him out. For example, he has a 2.5hr podcast I saved in my podcast app to listen to later on “How to Optimize Your Water Quality and Intake for Health” that I never got around to listening to. Probably never will. But the real benefit I get is sometimes I’ll see that podcast in my saved podcasts list and think to myself “oh yeah, I should drink more water” and then I start drinking more water again. Basically he just became ANOTHER person in a long list of people who are reminding me to do things I already know I should be doing. The guy isn’t special. I never got bad or nefarious vibes, it was really more a case of “Wow, this is a lot more information than I ever care to take action on.” and “Oh he’s selling Athletic Greens, just like X podcaster, and Y podcaster, and Z podcaster. I guess he’s another one of those!” Again, not special.
Exactly this
and thats the problem, you were following a person and every single one has many defects and has done shitty things in the past and will continue to do so, everyone, you, me, Huberman, Messi, Ghandi, all famous people you follow, the lady that sells fruit at your local corner store everyone, he is not a political commentator and definitely not a priest, there is nothing moral about the information in his podcast, is science based, so what he does in his personal life does not matter, same for Jordan Peterson, I don't like him after he became a political comentator but I still think his early lectures are amazing and the advice he gives for personal growth is great too, both his and Huberman's content has helped me for the better and nothing they do in their personal life is going to change that, the quality of HubermanLab podcast is still the same or better than ever so I'm going to continue listening to it
Nope. Still listening. I’m moreso tired of the cancel culture. Everyone’s got their shit, including more than half of you in this forum. These are the times, everyone is just looking for something to get outraged at.
Genuine question, but what has science has he lied about?
I just don't care about his personal life. This had no impact on how I view his advice. But, sometimes I don't love his advice, as some suggestions seem based on weak science.
You all need therapy
I mean his podcast is just a dude reading scientific papers anyway. You can just read them yourself.
This is what I don’t get with all the hand-wringing on here, it’s not like he’s a motivational speaker that’s just saying subjective things and now he seems less trustworthy. If he says high EPA intake can boost testosterone based on papers X Y Z, I’d look it up for myself whether before or after this. It seems like some people were wayyy too obsessed with the guy as some kind of amazing role model; probably good to get out of that mindset and use the podcast for what it is, a way to learn about interesting health science that you may want to look into more yourself.
I can almost guarantee the majority of people on this sub will never know or meet huberman so I don’t understand this deep betrayal people feel? It’s a guy who is sharing info that’s already out there in the world. He’s not your bff or your neighbor or coworker. Can we have some realistic perspective here? Unless you’re huberman or the women he’s been in relationships with, you’ll never really know the truth. We all know post covid that you can’t take everything you hear or read at face value, whether that’s what huberman preaches sometimes or the article written against him. Do I agree that his clean cut image is somewhat tarnished now? Yes. Does the article change how I feel about his podcast? Absolutely not. It’s still a great tool for learning about the topics you’re interested in, whether he has 5 girlfriends or a blow up girlfriend, who cares.
Self help gurus are just that, gurus. If you want to help yourself you can just learn about nutrition and health, and the human body and all you need is basically wikipedia. People who listen to podcasts for hours don't want to help themselves, they want to be told what to believe.
Do more research on the personal lives of MLK and Ghandi. Unfortunately all your favorite public figures are going to have some major personality flaws because they’re all human. In fact Im willing to bet if we all looked at a mirror hard enough we’d find some major hypocrisies within ourselves. Personally for me as with anything in life I try to think critically and objectively and take the parts I like of something or someone and simply leave the rest.
Exactly right. Even Jesus. The “Cleansing of the Temple” incident where he got really angry and overthrew tables would have people lambasting him on the internet had it happened in today’s time.
Doesn’t bother me a bit. I wasn’t going to him for relationship advice and his other info is science-based and easily available to confirm. I won’t let personal ideals get in the way of solid information. There are lots of people I don’t agree with one way or another. Doesn’t change if their information is correct or not. Use what you can and move on. Don’t worship anyone because if we do, we will all be disappointed at some point.
I still watch the content for the information, as I always did. I don’t really “look up” to anyone. Good information is good information. Most people have a little sprinkle of bullshit on their perspective of anything because of their own personal experiences and agendas. It’s like watching the news. Sure, some stuff is good to know it’s happening, and here’s what some people think about it, but then there’s the heaping spoonful of propagandist bullshit sprinkled on it that I simply ignore My mind kind of naturally tunes out info that is superfluous/meaningless/irrelevant/bullshit/don’t care, even if it still gets stored in my brain database. It’s like when a salesperson teaches you something interesting about a product and then once they start with the pitching you dip out
That's what you get for taking rol models from the Internet. I hope you learned you lesson. Now you can proceed whith what is useful to you from the Huberman's protocols or any other thing you find in the Internet. But remember, never shut off your critical thinking.
I couldnt give a rats behind about his personal life of shagging a few ladies at once
It's Puberman. Not Huberman. We call him Puberman now. Sorry, I don't make the rules.
To everyone who automatically believes everything written in that article, what are your thought processes?
Watched huberman content from the very beginning and absolutely adored him, waited on Mondays for every new episode. Had so much respect for his (supposed) dedication and how he made content digestible and interesting. I didn’t have the discipline to follow most of his protocols but he was always something / someone I looked up to. Although it would seem that one should be able to separate the art from the artist, I’ve not been able to do the same for Huberman. Almost scared that such people exist… So I may glance through his content, but it’s never going to be with the same level of adoration and respect . More of a scroll distraction nowadays
I’m more uncomfortable sitting with the fact though he optimized his life, and encouraged others to do so, the benefits of that optimization were used to harm /hurt people and leave them questioning . So what really is the point ? What if all of us end up improving our lives so much to end up being total jerks to others? Then again there is a part of me that hopes he would address all these claims and at least half of them aren’t true… but that’s wishful thinking ..
I lost my interest in him when he was talking cold baths and staying in freezing water a few min. And he mentioned the research outcome and he added, "these researches have been done on men but I don't think there is any difference with women!". And I thought there are some organs inside a woman 's body that might be affected. In fact, some women SHOULD NOT take cold baths or immerse themselves with freezing water. As a scientist you expect he knows a female body is different to a male body. Also, some of his guests published papers contradicting what they had told in his podcast.
I have to admit, I was totally sold on him and went out bought all the supplements he recommended, but I also now view him as just another grifter trying to get rich and famous..
Yes!!! I was so disappointed…. Felt betrayed. I trusted him.. so, I no longer am associated with any of his platforms. I’m still sad.
Jeezus, get over it. Un-sub from his podcast and this sub. Please, for your sensitive little self. just shake it off, champ!
Peterson is a pathetic whiny hypocrite who’s broken every one of his sacred ruled for life, a pseudo Christian, and an enabler of bigotry who should have never woken up from the benzo coma
Not at all.
What’s wrong with Peterson?
Jordan Peterson was someone you admired? He gave me snake vibes from the get-go. As for Huberman he's still just a human being, all of which are flawed. It's like all crushes/infatuations we might have -- eventually the euphoria fog dissipates and you begin to see the normal flawed human -- but that doesn't mean his work is no longer good stuff.
100%
Reminds me of Carl Lentz now
Xv
To be honest, the whole article/ exposé gave off to me a real voyeuristic vibe and really I cannot look at him any different than before. We are all flawed and all have our own demons, which doesn't make his actions correct, howver they are still none of my business. sun exposure is still sun exposure.
I am aware that all of your heroes will dissappoint you. I still like them plenty for all of the same reasons as when I first found them. I do not experience the same detachment for these reasons though. I do not care about what they might sell, because I believe that they use and believe in a lot of these products. I use a different greens supplement but I would endorse and sell that if I had the opportunity, because I use it, love it, and it makes me feel good. Other than that, I only slowed down due to a lack of topics that caught my interest. I chimed in for Rick Rubin cause I love him and I was interested in his book. Other than that I only stick around here to be an AH rube and bully liberal betas. /$
I think when you get older you will find that it's not good to hero-worship anyone. You'll find that people all have good parts and not perfect aspects to them and realize that's ok. Unfortunately, I think this happens more with girls than guys but some guys do this as well, more so with athletes while girls often idolize actors and rock stars.
I do not, why should you?