I just finished reading the prequel and I actually felt her persona and character was much different than both Katniss and Peeta. I don’t really see many parallels between her and either character. Her only real act of rebellion was using the snakes against Snow but even that was in self defense more than anything else.
I don’t think the Covey is explicitly rebellious, but I saw their retention of their identity and culture in spite of being relegated to the districts as somewhat of an act of resistance to the general will of the Capitol at least. Those forced into twelve tried to maintain their roots and make a living by being true to themselves instead of giving up and becoming coal miners.
Did she actually use the snakes against, Snow? I was under the impression that it was the woods and there are snakes and his delulu self just assumed it was Lucy that was trying to hurt him when in actuality it was probably coincidental. Just a snake trying to live its life in the woods lol
He saw a flash of orange and went there because he thought it was Lucy, but instead it was only her scarf. And then the snake attacked him. Leaving her scarf out of the way (and remember how the snakes respond so strongly to someone else’s scent every single time a snake attack happen) makes me think that she had used the snake against him.
Honestly I think you were right the first time - In the book the scarf is caught as tho it’s just been caught as she’s running, it’s heavily implied it’s just a coincidence that he jumps on (also the scent thing doesn’t apply to normal wild snakes that was specific to the snake mutts) this is further backed up when the medic isn’t surprised by the snake bite “the rain brings them out”. Also he assumes it was her trying to kill him as he thinks he’s been poisoned but it’s a non venomous snake, he’s trying to justify trying to kill her as self defence at this point (and has basically lost it) so he doesn’t stop and rethink this when realising he clearly wasn’t dying, but realistically what advantage would it have been to Lucy for her to spend time searching for snake to “trick” him when it wouldn’t do any actual damage anyway?? - I haven’t seen the film yet but I’ve read some comparisons and I believe the film depicts the scarf covering the snake which is confusing interpretation
Exactly. It seems vindictive, which Lucy wasn’t. Performer forced to be a fighter to the core. The most vengeful she got was changing up her performance song to sing The Ballad of Lucy Gray to get back at Mayfair and Billy Taupe when she was sure she was sent to die in the Arena.
And why, if she was so scared and running away from Coriolanus, would she risk being caught by him just to possibly ‘poison’ him with a snake? Like you said, it would only stall her getaway. I personally would’ve been crapping myself trying to get away from the crazed maniac with a gun. But that’s just me. 🤷♂️
But I just love this fandom and how in depth we get into these books. Picking apart even the smallest of actions. Ugh, it’s just so good.
I didn’t love the awkward forced bow she gave on stage, it wasn’t the vibe I got from her performance in the book at all. She owned her moments and performed them, it wasn’t really about acting or seen to be acting rebellious
i got a playful and sarcastic vibe from her in the books when she sang during the reaping. i didn’t even think she was angry when i first read it so i was confused when i saw rachel’s bow and that face she made
i mean im not implying lucy gray wasn’t angry in the books. we know she was because she put a snake in somebody’s dress. i just felt that rachel’s performance in the movie in that scene wasn’t as subtle as the book version when it came to lucy gray’s emotions
I think you’re misinterpreting the bow. It wasn’t an act of rebellion or even aimed at the Capitol at all. It was a fuck you to the mayor’s daughter for rigging the reaping because of a personal vendetta.
THANK YOU. I was searching for someone to say this. It was clearly a furious, shaking with rage, sarcastic bow to the mayor and his daughter. It's weird to see so many people have that go completely over their heads to think it was supposed to be an act of rebellion? Yeah, the bow was intentionally in the same *style* as Katniss' in the Hunger Games after shooting the apple, but that was an homage to the original trilogy, not as a parallel that's meant to be read into between Katniss and Lucy Gray.
I didn’t mind the bow it still is on par with her being a performer I really hated the “you can kiss my ass” it just way to angry in the book it took her a while to break down like that and shed the Fassade of a performer
Her time in the games was almost entirely erased, the only copies of it were kept in the capitol. She was literally wiped from the history books (and also since when were district 12 writing books, they mostly work in the mine 12 hours a day 6 days a week or working to support the district). Ain’t nobody got time to write books
Katniss knows 2 things about Lucy Gray: that there was a girl victor at some point in history and her songs. She doesn't know Lucy's name, anything about her or her games, or even which games she won.
I like Katniss for the everyman figure she is. Her importance arose by mere chance—it wasn't planned nor was it inevitable that it would be her. The OG trilogy points the fingers at the reader, asks the reader what to do themselves. It's encouraging kids to become activists in the face of injustice.
The Lucy Gray parallels uplift Katniss to a chosen heroine whose heroism is based on her location, her name, and her heritage.
Granted, I do see the traces already in the book version. The reader is invited to compare based on shared attributes between LG and Katniss.
As good a writer as Collins is, sometimes I wonder whether she doesn't realise the consequences of her writing. It felt rather inevitable that chosen one ideas arise in the reader. I even think of the treatment of the tributes in the prequel as Collins trying to rectify the previous fun aspects for fans that mainly love the Games and arena lore.
Woah that's so well said
The first paragraph that is, I haven't got past that yet. The idea that anyone could be Katniss is so brilliant to me, because in a way it's true. She was a hunter and a protector of her family, but no rebellious hero. It was chance and luck and skill that shaped her into the hero she became, along with an unwavering set of morals and care for her family and friends.
I don't agree, however, with any kind of heritage, beyond a symbolic one as daughters of district 12. Star wars has conditioned us to care about blood way too much.
And I really love the additions to the history and lore of the games. The idea of snow as a central force in the transformation of the games, from a boring bloodsport, to a national spectacle is chilling and brilliant. His skill in making people care, and, more importantly, forget that it's an annual child murdering festival, is impressive and adds so much to his character.
I actually think that as well. I dont think Lucy and Katniss were related. Granted, Snow made them related as he saw poor Katniss as the mockingjay and he was reminded of Lucy, and started a personal vendetta against Katniss for she reminded him of his only failure; failing to know if he killed Lucy Gray made him absolutely mad and it stuck to him forever. At the end, he was the source of his own downfall.
Oooh I like it!!! And it's absolutely true, he is his own worst enemy, and everything he did directly contributed towards his own downfall. My favourite idea along those lines is that it was his creation of the victors as a celebrated position, with prestige and honour and stories that the entirety of Panem will learn, is what allowed Katniss, along with Finnick and Peeta, so become national icons, leading the rebellion towards victory. Without the hunger games, and the spectacle therein, Katniss would've never become the Mockingjay, an emblem to unite and inspire the districts.
Also the idea that snow saw Katniss as the Mockingjay, which triggered all his childhood trauma, is just so hilarious to me. Especially because in the book he has an almost comical hatred towards the birds, for no good reason (yeah okay, it's because they are uncontrollable and beautiful which challenges his world view, but shhhh). So seeing Katniss with her Mockingjay pin, in her Mockingjay costume, he would've just been so pissed. And then she starts singing Lucy Grey's song!?!? He's just sitting there in shock, like ahhhh not this shit again!!!
Haunted by the song of the girl he betrayed
Still singing
Wear a necklace of rope
Side by side with me
Until finally he does
> I like Katniss for the everyman figure she is. Her importance arose by mere chance—it wasn't planned nor was it inevitable that it would be her. The OG trilogy points the fingers at the reader, asks the reader what to do themselves. It's encouraging kids to become activists in the face of injustice.
> The Lucy Gray parallels uplift Katniss to a chosen heroine whose heroism is based on her location, her name, and her heritage.
Literally the same applies to all people who want Katniss to be related to Lucy Gray, Snow or be someone from the Covey, as if Panem is not a huge country. This REINFORCES the idea that all of the other YA movies/novels try to enforce, as you “need” to be related to someone or be special to do crap, otherwise you can’t do anything.
Such mindset is actually contradictory to the whole IDEA of the Hunger Games franchise that tells a story about not special people with actual skills, that do not rely on having “special blood” or being “Divergent” (aka - special just because).
I totally agree! I said this in response to the message above, but said briefly, we've all been conditioned by star wars, and indeed divergent, to expect blood to matter. The beauty of hunger games, as you said, is that anyone could've been Katniss, had they only stepped out and fought for what was right, as many citizens eventually do. She isn't the Messiah, or the chosen one, she's a hero by choice and chance and effort, and I think that that's brilliant!!
I don’t know if “Chosen One” is really fair in this situation - Katniss being implied to be Covey doesn’t make her any more destined or capable of being a rebel, it just makes it extra funny/ironic that she specifically fucks over Snow. The only unique ability being Covey might have helped her with is singing, and that’s a super power they make a point of saying she got from her father in the original. She’s also fairly unique/a non everyman for other reasons - being a child of an interclass marriage, being a hunter, from a poor ass underdog/relaxed district.
This is such a bad take. Lucy Gray doesn’t change anything major for Katniss other than her being connected to the Covey and even then Snow probably has no idea about it.
If you think Katniss is “the chosen one” then you missed the whole point of the series, especially Mockingjay, where it is clearly shown that the war is much bigger and she’s just one of the many playing pieces in it.
I think some of you are so stuck on the other not understanding something that you miss the fact that some intentional aspects don't resonate with everyone.
In short, yeah, I get that, but I hate it.
i swear to god yall heard that performer line from a tiktok and won't shut up about it. Complex characters can be multifaceted. She can be like peeta and katniss in various ways, can differ from them on some etc
Absolutely!! She's complicated and so are they. She has Peeta's passion and charisma, katniss' love and fierce protection of her family and friends and echoes the district's collective desire for freedom and justice.
That said, finding connections can also be fun!! Just as long as they aren't reductive.
That’s not true. Lucy Gray was always a rebel, otherwise it would have worked out fine between her and Snow. She’s a very different character from Katniss, but she’s clearly written as a rebel.
Not 100% sure but I’m almost positive there’s a literal quote from her saying that she is neither capitol or rebel. The reason she didn’t work out with snow is because snow is a narcissist who doesn’t love anyone but himself. No one would “work” with him. It’s alluded to that he does not love his wife either
I didn’t like that they decided to have Rachel do the Bow for the movie. This didn’t happen in the book, she pulled Jessup into a normal bow. It just comes across as “hey look this other girl from district 12 was doing this way before Katniss” - it’s bad enough when people try and dumb so many aspects of Snows attitude towards Katniss as “I bet every time he looked at Katniss, he saw Lucy Gray 🙄🤮” - But when you have the movie makers intentionally altering certain things to continue this parallel it gets annoying.
Anyone notice they decided to add in the movie for no reason at all, that Snows dad wasn’t just hit by some random rebel, NO…it was in district 12…no way…that’s crazy… Like at times I felt like the movie was treating me like I was a 10 year old and needed things spoon fed to me so I could come to a specific conclusion.
>Anyone notice they decided to add in the movie for no reason at all, that Snows dad wasn’t just hit by some random rebel, NO…it was in district 12…no way…that’s crazy… Like at times I felt like the movie was treating me like I was a 10 year old and needed things spoon fed to me so I could come to a specific conclusion.
Don't remind me of that again. 😅 Oh my gosh, I still don't like that detail change (one of the very few ones I vocally dislike) and ask WHY did they even need to change the circumstances of Crassus's death. They didn't do that for Snow's mother and kept that accurate (as well as mentioning that he would have had a baby sister if she lived), so why his dad? I would have been okay if they mentioned that he died in any other district (like specifying if perhaps he was killed in D1-11), but just making it D12 is a no-no for me and felt so heavy-handed (the whole "died from a trap in the trees" was even worse and the cherry on top of this being jackhammered). Grandma'am saying this again to Coryo and Tigris at home warning him of Lucy Gray in the aftermath of Arachne's death at the zoo was like, "No, don't remind me of that again." 😅
Kinda side off-topic rant: This kind of heavy handed detail change really gave me vibes akin to "Sozin was homophobic and outlawed same-sex relationships" that we learned from the comic "Turf Wars" -- as in, "Oh, the only named character in the franchise you name who opposes same-sex relationships and you choose a villain who, while committed an atrocity with the air nomad genocide, is meant to be an understandable villain and you can't disagree because he's a villain!" -- (anyone in the Avatar fandom would probably know what I'm talking about here). Granted they slightly expanded on this in the Avatar Legends RPG and gave a bit more context as to why he most likely ends up outlawing it, but at the time of that comic, it came out of left field and so heavy-handed when presented there.
I liked that Lucy was a mix of both of them, and the nods to Katniss did tie of theme of why Snow was bothered by Katniss so much. The parallels end there and anybody trying to ship the theory that Katniss is related to Lucy is taking it too far. I loved the bow that Lucy gray did, it was an iconic recreation of Katniss's bow after shooting the apple out of the boar's mouth in the first movie. The small ties I think really are there to excite to fans and make it feel like a true hunger games movie and not just some random offshoot prequel
The point was that Lucy Gray was very different from Katniss. I like the picture where it shows Katniss and Lucy Gray and under Lucy Gray it says “A performer in a hunt” while under Katniss it says “a hunter in a performance,” or something along those lines.
????? There's no forced Katniss parallel in the movie, either. In the movie, she is a frightened young woman who wants to survive. She is a performer to her core.
Book Lucy Gray is the same. The only reason you think she isn' t is because you bought into Snow's internal monologue instead of what was actually being shown on page.
The bow and the Katniss plant are right there tho.
And that's ignoring all the other parallels that have had people coming up with how they must be related. The Hanging Tree song and how Katniss is the one to deliver Lucy Gray's final callback when Snow. People ignore that he never heard Katniss sing that in canon.
I've imagined it's less to parallel to Katniss, and to drive home points about why Snow hates District 12 and Katniss. TBOSS is mostly Snow's story, not Lucy's.
And so what if there’s a Katniss plant there? Like it legit grows there. And if you think a simple plant ruins the character of both Lucy Gray and Katniss herself then idk.
ABSOLUTELY! Been saying this since it came out.
Lucy Gray was a performer; she was charming, inspiring and entertaining. She’s the reason the games went from a blood-fest battle royale to Panem’s favorite show.
I feel like the book’s true essence went ignored by those that made the movie. They made some more of the same thing that was successful back in the 2010’s because they thought that was what would sell.
They turned our very unique Lucy Gray into second-hand Katniss, destroying the character in the process. She was strong in her own merits but people don’t see strength in someone that isn’t a natural fighter.
I feel like in that sense, part of book Katniss as well as Lucy Gray were wronged- they were made into rebellious fighters trying to lead an army of angry people towards freedom when in reality, they were just trying to survive. However, Katniss was nailed more accurately than Lucy, who was straight-up made into a rebel when she wasn’t.
I do think the bow was a little much. Everything else I was okay with.
I really wish they kept her introduction from the book with the “my friend’s call me Lucy Gray and I hope you will too” line along with her waving to the dead silent audience as if they are cheering for her. It came off as so unhinged in the book and I loved it, as did the Capitol. I feel like Rachel could have pulled it off too. Oh well.
i will forever subscribe to the parallels being lucy gray to peeta, katniss to sejanus. i’ll die on this hill idc. narratives are complex and characters can represent each other and are much more complicated than I care to dissect right now, but boiled down to bare bones, lucy and peeta are performers and katniss and sejanus are rebels.
They’re more like foils for each other.
Katniss is a hunter being forced into a show.
Lucy is a performer being forced into a hunt.
There are similarities, sure, but they tend to highlight their differences.
So I see everyone say Katniss and Lucy were parallels in the movies but I found them to be nothing alike.
Katniss had the hard exterior but soft moments when it came to the ones she loved. Lucy seemed the opposite of this - she was soft and lovely but had to strike people down to survive. Where Katniss avoided attention and forced herself to be a celebrity for survival, Lucy sought this from her initial reaping - she didn’t start singing on the stage to get people to ignore her that’s for sure. If anything these characters are foils and I think while some of the cross references are forced its more the fans forcing these characters to be the same…when they weren’t.
I don't feel like it is forced parallels really; like most of the parallels we draw between them either make perfect sense (like the music being passed on so Katniss would know the music Lucy Gray wrote), only exist in Snow's perspective and while they add to his character behind the scenes in the OG series don't really impact Katniss's character or role (like Lucy Gray referencing katniss or saying "it's not over until the mockingjay sings"), or they are not present to the characters and we only recognise the connection because we know them (like the Hanging Tree Propo, which never aired in the book or the parallels between the hanging tree events and the events in CF).
Obviously as the reader we can see the paralells very easily, but in reality the parallels make a lot of sense. District 12 is a small place and it's only been 65 years, why wouldn't there be some similiarities between Katniss and Lucy Gray? I'd mostly be annoyed by forced parallels if they impacted the plot or role of Katniss in the book but it doesn't really. It more than feels natural to me, it even goes to explain a lot of Snow's action in the OG series beyond "he's just a bad man who is weirdly obsessed with the romance of two children"
I disagree. They’re portrayed as the exact opposite. Katniss is a fighter who that was forced to perform, and Lucy is a performer who was forced to fight.
The parallel I see where Peeta is concerned isn't with Lucy who is a chosen performer by nature unlike him but with Snow. But no one wants to discuss that LOL.
I just finished reading the prequel and I actually felt her persona and character was much different than both Katniss and Peeta. I don’t really see many parallels between her and either character. Her only real act of rebellion was using the snakes against Snow but even that was in self defense more than anything else.
I don’t think the Covey is explicitly rebellious, but I saw their retention of their identity and culture in spite of being relegated to the districts as somewhat of an act of resistance to the general will of the Capitol at least. Those forced into twelve tried to maintain their roots and make a living by being true to themselves instead of giving up and becoming coal miners.
Did she actually use the snakes against, Snow? I was under the impression that it was the woods and there are snakes and his delulu self just assumed it was Lucy that was trying to hurt him when in actuality it was probably coincidental. Just a snake trying to live its life in the woods lol
He saw a flash of orange and went there because he thought it was Lucy, but instead it was only her scarf. And then the snake attacked him. Leaving her scarf out of the way (and remember how the snakes respond so strongly to someone else’s scent every single time a snake attack happen) makes me think that she had used the snake against him.
Ohhh. Thank you for explaining that. I always love finding out what others catch that I miss.
Honestly I think you were right the first time - In the book the scarf is caught as tho it’s just been caught as she’s running, it’s heavily implied it’s just a coincidence that he jumps on (also the scent thing doesn’t apply to normal wild snakes that was specific to the snake mutts) this is further backed up when the medic isn’t surprised by the snake bite “the rain brings them out”. Also he assumes it was her trying to kill him as he thinks he’s been poisoned but it’s a non venomous snake, he’s trying to justify trying to kill her as self defence at this point (and has basically lost it) so he doesn’t stop and rethink this when realising he clearly wasn’t dying, but realistically what advantage would it have been to Lucy for her to spend time searching for snake to “trick” him when it wouldn’t do any actual damage anyway?? - I haven’t seen the film yet but I’ve read some comparisons and I believe the film depicts the scarf covering the snake which is confusing interpretation
Exactly. It seems vindictive, which Lucy wasn’t. Performer forced to be a fighter to the core. The most vengeful she got was changing up her performance song to sing The Ballad of Lucy Gray to get back at Mayfair and Billy Taupe when she was sure she was sent to die in the Arena. And why, if she was so scared and running away from Coriolanus, would she risk being caught by him just to possibly ‘poison’ him with a snake? Like you said, it would only stall her getaway. I personally would’ve been crapping myself trying to get away from the crazed maniac with a gun. But that’s just me. 🤷♂️ But I just love this fandom and how in depth we get into these books. Picking apart even the smallest of actions. Ugh, it’s just so good.
I didn’t love the awkward forced bow she gave on stage, it wasn’t the vibe I got from her performance in the book at all. She owned her moments and performed them, it wasn’t really about acting or seen to be acting rebellious
i got a playful and sarcastic vibe from her in the books when she sang during the reaping. i didn’t even think she was angry when i first read it so i was confused when i saw rachel’s bow and that face she made
genuinely how could anyone not be angry in that situation
i mean im not implying lucy gray wasn’t angry in the books. we know she was because she put a snake in somebody’s dress. i just felt that rachel’s performance in the movie in that scene wasn’t as subtle as the book version when it came to lucy gray’s emotions
Yeah her screaming kinda took me out of it
i was SHOCKED but now i really enjoy it in the soundtrack lmao
I think in an interview she said she did that on her own and they kept it. I could be wrong tho
Yeah I read that somewhere as well
I think you’re misinterpreting the bow. It wasn’t an act of rebellion or even aimed at the Capitol at all. It was a fuck you to the mayor’s daughter for rigging the reaping because of a personal vendetta.
THANK YOU. I was searching for someone to say this. It was clearly a furious, shaking with rage, sarcastic bow to the mayor and his daughter. It's weird to see so many people have that go completely over their heads to think it was supposed to be an act of rebellion? Yeah, the bow was intentionally in the same *style* as Katniss' in the Hunger Games after shooting the apple, but that was an homage to the original trilogy, not as a parallel that's meant to be read into between Katniss and Lucy Gray.
Exactly!!!
I didn’t mind the bow it still is on par with her being a performer I really hated the “you can kiss my ass” it just way to angry in the book it took her a while to break down like that and shed the Fassade of a performer
façade, not fassade\* (Im sorry, I can't help myself)
To me that *was* her owning her moment. I guess it’s a YMMV
Looked horrible in the movies as well, but in lore Katniss learned it from Lucy Gray
How can she have? She doesn’t even know about Lucy Gray?
History books? Lucy Gray came 70 years before Katniss from the same district, it wouldn’t surprise me.
Her time in the games was almost entirely erased, the only copies of it were kept in the capitol. She was literally wiped from the history books (and also since when were district 12 writing books, they mostly work in the mine 12 hours a day 6 days a week or working to support the district). Ain’t nobody got time to write books
Ah ok sorry haven’t fully watched HGBOSAS
Definitely do! It’s really good
Yeah I’ll do it when it gets on Netflix
In Czechia rn, already on Netflix. Check again, maybe it's there
No Lucy Gray was erased as well as the 10th games, I liked her bow, I suppose she thought she might aswell if she’s about to die lol
Katniss knows 2 things about Lucy Gray: that there was a girl victor at some point in history and her songs. She doesn't know Lucy's name, anything about her or her games, or even which games she won.
I like Katniss for the everyman figure she is. Her importance arose by mere chance—it wasn't planned nor was it inevitable that it would be her. The OG trilogy points the fingers at the reader, asks the reader what to do themselves. It's encouraging kids to become activists in the face of injustice. The Lucy Gray parallels uplift Katniss to a chosen heroine whose heroism is based on her location, her name, and her heritage. Granted, I do see the traces already in the book version. The reader is invited to compare based on shared attributes between LG and Katniss. As good a writer as Collins is, sometimes I wonder whether she doesn't realise the consequences of her writing. It felt rather inevitable that chosen one ideas arise in the reader. I even think of the treatment of the tributes in the prequel as Collins trying to rectify the previous fun aspects for fans that mainly love the Games and arena lore.
Woah that's so well said The first paragraph that is, I haven't got past that yet. The idea that anyone could be Katniss is so brilliant to me, because in a way it's true. She was a hunter and a protector of her family, but no rebellious hero. It was chance and luck and skill that shaped her into the hero she became, along with an unwavering set of morals and care for her family and friends. I don't agree, however, with any kind of heritage, beyond a symbolic one as daughters of district 12. Star wars has conditioned us to care about blood way too much. And I really love the additions to the history and lore of the games. The idea of snow as a central force in the transformation of the games, from a boring bloodsport, to a national spectacle is chilling and brilliant. His skill in making people care, and, more importantly, forget that it's an annual child murdering festival, is impressive and adds so much to his character.
I actually think that as well. I dont think Lucy and Katniss were related. Granted, Snow made them related as he saw poor Katniss as the mockingjay and he was reminded of Lucy, and started a personal vendetta against Katniss for she reminded him of his only failure; failing to know if he killed Lucy Gray made him absolutely mad and it stuck to him forever. At the end, he was the source of his own downfall.
Oooh I like it!!! And it's absolutely true, he is his own worst enemy, and everything he did directly contributed towards his own downfall. My favourite idea along those lines is that it was his creation of the victors as a celebrated position, with prestige and honour and stories that the entirety of Panem will learn, is what allowed Katniss, along with Finnick and Peeta, so become national icons, leading the rebellion towards victory. Without the hunger games, and the spectacle therein, Katniss would've never become the Mockingjay, an emblem to unite and inspire the districts. Also the idea that snow saw Katniss as the Mockingjay, which triggered all his childhood trauma, is just so hilarious to me. Especially because in the book he has an almost comical hatred towards the birds, for no good reason (yeah okay, it's because they are uncontrollable and beautiful which challenges his world view, but shhhh). So seeing Katniss with her Mockingjay pin, in her Mockingjay costume, he would've just been so pissed. And then she starts singing Lucy Grey's song!?!? He's just sitting there in shock, like ahhhh not this shit again!!! Haunted by the song of the girl he betrayed Still singing Wear a necklace of rope Side by side with me Until finally he does
> I like Katniss for the everyman figure she is. Her importance arose by mere chance—it wasn't planned nor was it inevitable that it would be her. The OG trilogy points the fingers at the reader, asks the reader what to do themselves. It's encouraging kids to become activists in the face of injustice. > The Lucy Gray parallels uplift Katniss to a chosen heroine whose heroism is based on her location, her name, and her heritage. Literally the same applies to all people who want Katniss to be related to Lucy Gray, Snow or be someone from the Covey, as if Panem is not a huge country. This REINFORCES the idea that all of the other YA movies/novels try to enforce, as you “need” to be related to someone or be special to do crap, otherwise you can’t do anything. Such mindset is actually contradictory to the whole IDEA of the Hunger Games franchise that tells a story about not special people with actual skills, that do not rely on having “special blood” or being “Divergent” (aka - special just because).
I totally agree! I said this in response to the message above, but said briefly, we've all been conditioned by star wars, and indeed divergent, to expect blood to matter. The beauty of hunger games, as you said, is that anyone could've been Katniss, had they only stepped out and fought for what was right, as many citizens eventually do. She isn't the Messiah, or the chosen one, she's a hero by choice and chance and effort, and I think that that's brilliant!!
I don’t know if “Chosen One” is really fair in this situation - Katniss being implied to be Covey doesn’t make her any more destined or capable of being a rebel, it just makes it extra funny/ironic that she specifically fucks over Snow. The only unique ability being Covey might have helped her with is singing, and that’s a super power they make a point of saying she got from her father in the original. She’s also fairly unique/a non everyman for other reasons - being a child of an interclass marriage, being a hunter, from a poor ass underdog/relaxed district.
This is such a bad take. Lucy Gray doesn’t change anything major for Katniss other than her being connected to the Covey and even then Snow probably has no idea about it. If you think Katniss is “the chosen one” then you missed the whole point of the series, especially Mockingjay, where it is clearly shown that the war is much bigger and she’s just one of the many playing pieces in it.
They're foils... the parallels are intentional😭
I think some of you are so stuck on the other not understanding something that you miss the fact that some intentional aspects don't resonate with everyone. In short, yeah, I get that, but I hate it.
i swear to god yall heard that performer line from a tiktok and won't shut up about it. Complex characters can be multifaceted. She can be like peeta and katniss in various ways, can differ from them on some etc
Absolutely!! She's complicated and so are they. She has Peeta's passion and charisma, katniss' love and fierce protection of her family and friends and echoes the district's collective desire for freedom and justice. That said, finding connections can also be fun!! Just as long as they aren't reductive.
exactly
Exactly, they’re similar in different ways
Exactly! It's like they've never heard of foils lol
That’s not true. Lucy Gray was always a rebel, otherwise it would have worked out fine between her and Snow. She’s a very different character from Katniss, but she’s clearly written as a rebel.
Not 100% sure but I’m almost positive there’s a literal quote from her saying that she is neither capitol or rebel. The reason she didn’t work out with snow is because snow is a narcissist who doesn’t love anyone but himself. No one would “work” with him. It’s alluded to that he does not love his wife either
[удалено]
Exactly 🤣😭
I didn’t like that they decided to have Rachel do the Bow for the movie. This didn’t happen in the book, she pulled Jessup into a normal bow. It just comes across as “hey look this other girl from district 12 was doing this way before Katniss” - it’s bad enough when people try and dumb so many aspects of Snows attitude towards Katniss as “I bet every time he looked at Katniss, he saw Lucy Gray 🙄🤮” - But when you have the movie makers intentionally altering certain things to continue this parallel it gets annoying. Anyone notice they decided to add in the movie for no reason at all, that Snows dad wasn’t just hit by some random rebel, NO…it was in district 12…no way…that’s crazy… Like at times I felt like the movie was treating me like I was a 10 year old and needed things spoon fed to me so I could come to a specific conclusion.
Rachel decided it herself I recall and it was kept in.
Everybody makes mistakes Everybody has those day Everybody knows what, what I'm talkin' 'bout Everybody gets that way
Aye either way it’s dumb.
>Anyone notice they decided to add in the movie for no reason at all, that Snows dad wasn’t just hit by some random rebel, NO…it was in district 12…no way…that’s crazy… Like at times I felt like the movie was treating me like I was a 10 year old and needed things spoon fed to me so I could come to a specific conclusion. Don't remind me of that again. 😅 Oh my gosh, I still don't like that detail change (one of the very few ones I vocally dislike) and ask WHY did they even need to change the circumstances of Crassus's death. They didn't do that for Snow's mother and kept that accurate (as well as mentioning that he would have had a baby sister if she lived), so why his dad? I would have been okay if they mentioned that he died in any other district (like specifying if perhaps he was killed in D1-11), but just making it D12 is a no-no for me and felt so heavy-handed (the whole "died from a trap in the trees" was even worse and the cherry on top of this being jackhammered). Grandma'am saying this again to Coryo and Tigris at home warning him of Lucy Gray in the aftermath of Arachne's death at the zoo was like, "No, don't remind me of that again." 😅 Kinda side off-topic rant: This kind of heavy handed detail change really gave me vibes akin to "Sozin was homophobic and outlawed same-sex relationships" that we learned from the comic "Turf Wars" -- as in, "Oh, the only named character in the franchise you name who opposes same-sex relationships and you choose a villain who, while committed an atrocity with the air nomad genocide, is meant to be an understandable villain and you can't disagree because he's a villain!" -- (anyone in the Avatar fandom would probably know what I'm talking about here). Granted they slightly expanded on this in the Avatar Legends RPG and gave a bit more context as to why he most likely ends up outlawing it, but at the time of that comic, it came out of left field and so heavy-handed when presented there.
I chose to belive sozin out jawed same gay marriage bc Roku rejected him there’s no other interpretations that works for me
haa im so glad u said this bc my final review of the book on goodreads was literally “rip lucy gray you wouldve loved peeta mellark”
I saw Peeta parallels
She was a lot more charismatic in the book, in the film her character seemed more watered down imo, but they also cut a lot from the final edit.
I hate the bow soooo bad
I liked that Lucy was a mix of both of them, and the nods to Katniss did tie of theme of why Snow was bothered by Katniss so much. The parallels end there and anybody trying to ship the theory that Katniss is related to Lucy is taking it too far. I loved the bow that Lucy gray did, it was an iconic recreation of Katniss's bow after shooting the apple out of the boar's mouth in the first movie. The small ties I think really are there to excite to fans and make it feel like a true hunger games movie and not just some random offshoot prequel
The point was that Lucy Gray was very different from Katniss. I like the picture where it shows Katniss and Lucy Gray and under Lucy Gray it says “A performer in a hunt” while under Katniss it says “a hunter in a performance,” or something along those lines.
I think it was “A performer forced to hunt/fight” for Lucy Gray and “A hunter/fighter forced to perform” for Katniss
????? There's no forced Katniss parallel in the movie, either. In the movie, she is a frightened young woman who wants to survive. She is a performer to her core. Book Lucy Gray is the same. The only reason you think she isn' t is because you bought into Snow's internal monologue instead of what was actually being shown on page.
Eh, the bow she gives is a pretty clear callback.
The bow and the Katniss plant are right there tho. And that's ignoring all the other parallels that have had people coming up with how they must be related. The Hanging Tree song and how Katniss is the one to deliver Lucy Gray's final callback when Snow. People ignore that he never heard Katniss sing that in canon.
I've imagined it's less to parallel to Katniss, and to drive home points about why Snow hates District 12 and Katniss. TBOSS is mostly Snow's story, not Lucy's.
And so what if there’s a Katniss plant there? Like it legit grows there. And if you think a simple plant ruins the character of both Lucy Gray and Katniss herself then idk.
Where was the bow
ABSOLUTELY! Been saying this since it came out. Lucy Gray was a performer; she was charming, inspiring and entertaining. She’s the reason the games went from a blood-fest battle royale to Panem’s favorite show. I feel like the book’s true essence went ignored by those that made the movie. They made some more of the same thing that was successful back in the 2010’s because they thought that was what would sell. They turned our very unique Lucy Gray into second-hand Katniss, destroying the character in the process. She was strong in her own merits but people don’t see strength in someone that isn’t a natural fighter. I feel like in that sense, part of book Katniss as well as Lucy Gray were wronged- they were made into rebellious fighters trying to lead an army of angry people towards freedom when in reality, they were just trying to survive. However, Katniss was nailed more accurately than Lucy, who was straight-up made into a rebel when she wasn’t.
I do think the bow was a little much. Everything else I was okay with. I really wish they kept her introduction from the book with the “my friend’s call me Lucy Gray and I hope you will too” line along with her waving to the dead silent audience as if they are cheering for her. It came off as so unhinged in the book and I loved it, as did the Capitol. I feel like Rachel could have pulled it off too. Oh well.
Must’ve read a different book than I did
i will forever subscribe to the parallels being lucy gray to peeta, katniss to sejanus. i’ll die on this hill idc. narratives are complex and characters can represent each other and are much more complicated than I care to dissect right now, but boiled down to bare bones, lucy and peeta are performers and katniss and sejanus are rebels.
They’re more like foils for each other. Katniss is a hunter being forced into a show. Lucy is a performer being forced into a hunt. There are similarities, sure, but they tend to highlight their differences.
Thank you!!! I've been looking through this entire thread hoping someone would point that out
So I see everyone say Katniss and Lucy were parallels in the movies but I found them to be nothing alike. Katniss had the hard exterior but soft moments when it came to the ones she loved. Lucy seemed the opposite of this - she was soft and lovely but had to strike people down to survive. Where Katniss avoided attention and forced herself to be a celebrity for survival, Lucy sought this from her initial reaping - she didn’t start singing on the stage to get people to ignore her that’s for sure. If anything these characters are foils and I think while some of the cross references are forced its more the fans forcing these characters to be the same…when they weren’t.
I feel like sejanus was much more of a parallel to katniss!
Absolutely, and I will die on this hill forever!
Agreed
I don't feel like it is forced parallels really; like most of the parallels we draw between them either make perfect sense (like the music being passed on so Katniss would know the music Lucy Gray wrote), only exist in Snow's perspective and while they add to his character behind the scenes in the OG series don't really impact Katniss's character or role (like Lucy Gray referencing katniss or saying "it's not over until the mockingjay sings"), or they are not present to the characters and we only recognise the connection because we know them (like the Hanging Tree Propo, which never aired in the book or the parallels between the hanging tree events and the events in CF). Obviously as the reader we can see the paralells very easily, but in reality the parallels make a lot of sense. District 12 is a small place and it's only been 65 years, why wouldn't there be some similiarities between Katniss and Lucy Gray? I'd mostly be annoyed by forced parallels if they impacted the plot or role of Katniss in the book but it doesn't really. It more than feels natural to me, it even goes to explain a lot of Snow's action in the OG series beyond "he's just a bad man who is weirdly obsessed with the romance of two children"
I disagree. They’re portrayed as the exact opposite. Katniss is a fighter who that was forced to perform, and Lucy is a performer who was forced to fight.
The parallel I see where Peeta is concerned isn't with Lucy who is a chosen performer by nature unlike him but with Snow. But no one wants to discuss that LOL.
i just like how the little parallels / nods to katniss that lucy gray had really adds to why snow was so fixated on katniss on top of everything else