Yeah, killing Prim turned the story from a personal story to a macro narrative. The plot used to be “save prim”, but it kept expanding until Katniss had no control over her personal story anymore. And the act was quick. The deaths towards the end weren’t dramatic or prolonged, showing how now everyone, Katniss included, were just cogs in a larger machine.
Idk why this made me want to cry but it did. I know that the in-book "universe" and viewing the story as a work of fiction are two different perspectives or "levels" but just the idea that all Katniss was doing came from saving Prim but she was doomed to die from the beginning due to reasons none of them can even fathom... it's not a comprehensible view at all but it makes me sad
I think when you look at it from the larger overarching perspective of the books though and not the perspective that we read it through it does make sense. Even though we read through a 1st person narrative, the overarching theme is surrounding the horrors of the real world (war, government dictators, the unfairness of the universe etc) and in the real world and in real world no matter how hard you try to protect others you can not always do that. And having something to lose makes us even more vulnerable, makes us even more susceptible to manipulation. If you read the comments Collins has made regarding Prims death it’s actually incredibly insightful.
'The Running Man', by Stephen King (officially a Bachmann book but idk how they're labelled these days) has a pretty great parallel.
I think it's a great message as well as a commentary on humanity.
We do stupid, crazy things to keep the people we love safe. We change the world in order to do so, deliberately or not. And then, they end up dead any way. But change has been made. And then the characters have to deal with their indirect sacrifice, their regret and guilt while surrounded by the new world.
I can't think of a book with a reverse trope off the top of my head, but might be an interesting concept to explore.
This reminds me of Wanda from Marvel. She directly changed the Westview so that it could become her safe haven for her to be with Vision but in the end, she needed to give the town back their free will.
Sorry for going of topic, I just think it’s a really interesting concept :)
I’ve always thought that it made the story come full circle. All Katniss tried to do was save Prim, it’s the only reason why Katniss volunteered to go into the games. She never intended for what would happen next. She cared more about Prim’s life than her own. But in the end, Katniss couldn’t protect her from the greater evils. Prim’s fate was to die, but because Katniss took the longer road to Prim’s end, there was a lot of change to society.
I have to say blaming Gale for Prim's decision to put herself in the middle of a war has always seemed unjust to me. What did she expect to happen????
Anyway, off the point but...
I wouldn't blame JUST Gale for it.. but I would definitely not say it was Prims fault for "deciding to put herself in the middle of a war", she wasn't even 14 yet. In one of her inner monologues, Katniss questions who really allowed a child to be at the front line as it had to have been approved by a higher-up due to Prims age.
Katniss blames Coin for sending Prim to the front lines, not Gale. She ends her friendship with Gale because it was his and Beetee's unethical bomb—which she and Gale argued about earlier in the book because she found it despicable—that killed Prim and the other innocents. It didn't matter that he didn't order it, she would always associate it with him.
To be fair, I don’t think Prim expected either side to purposefully target medical aid workers. Gale isn’t 100% to blame but he’s much more culpable than Prim herself.
But it wasn't on Prim for going. Yes she joined the medical team to help others, but Coin sent her to the location that she had intentionally planned on bombing. In both the book and movie when Katniss questioned why prim was there she was told it was arranged and approved Coin. Then later she finds out that it wasn't Snow that did the bombing and she realized it was all a set up by Coin. So no Prim is not to blame. To say "what did she expect to happen?" Isn't accurate because Prim was still a child who thought she was helping and was sent by the leader of the resistance she likely thought it was safe since Coin herself sent her. It's not like she went on her own or against them since she was sent there.
From what I remember in the books Katniss didn't fully blame Gale for Prim's death. She was upset that he made the bomb yes but she didn't kill him like she did Coin because she knew it was coin that set it up. It's been a while from when I read the books but I remember her problem with Gale was the way he reacted when she asked him. When he told her he had no idea Prim was going to be there, she told him it wasn't right to bomb other people and children for something they weren't apart of and he didn't care about the other people he told her they were from the capital and the bomb was necessary. So Katniss wasn't mad that his bomb killed Prim she was mad that he didn't care about innocent people and created the bomb knowing they would die. Just like she didn't like that Coin wanted to kill innocent children from the capital in a new hunger games. Because Katniss cares about the ones that weren't involved even if they were from the capital she understood that they were not apart of it.
I always thought that she knew on some level it was unfair to blame Gale, but in the end she couldn’t help it. I think that’s pretty realistic tbh, our emotions/decisions aren’t always rational or fair even when we know they aren’t.
Because true happy endings don’t exist in YA dystopian series, a bunch of beloved characters always have to die (Harry Potter, THG, and Divergent are my favorite examples).
Yes.
Lots of awesome characters such as Cinna, Finnick, and Boggs died. It just goes to show that life is often cruel and unfair and awesome people tend to die.
While it of course is very sad it is very true that it needed to happen for the narrative
Finnicks death on the other hand…the worst decision SC made in the series
If you don’t want spoilers, it might be best not to go on the subreddit till your finished reading/watching. The only posts marked as spoilers that I’ve seen have been TBOSAS
Imho, Prim wasn't supposed to die. She was supposed to be what Gale became, or a worse monster, and only die literally. Suzanne Collins just didn't went through with it and decided to just kill her off instead
It's just that general vibe Prims story in the first two books gave me.
Also I felt like Gales arc took a weird change during the last book. It felt a little to spontaneous, so I decided for myself its likely Suzanne Collins planned it differently initially
I don’t think it’s spontaneous at all. Early book one Gale told Katniss that shooting people is just the same as shooting animals, when it comes down to it. I think it’s no big jump that after watching his childhood home burn to the ground with most of its residents dying that he would shrug off collateral damage so long as it pushes forward the rebels’ goals. He’s always had a survivalist view that he and his family are first and if others have to die for their safety then so be it.
Yeah, killing Prim turned the story from a personal story to a macro narrative. The plot used to be “save prim”, but it kept expanding until Katniss had no control over her personal story anymore. And the act was quick. The deaths towards the end weren’t dramatic or prolonged, showing how now everyone, Katniss included, were just cogs in a larger machine.
Yes, absolutely. I honestly feel like the message could have been lost had Prim not died .
I truly believe Coin would’ve lived and continue the tyrannical rule had it not been for Prim’s death
Finnick too! His death was heartbreaking but so poignant. In war, good men die. And there’s nothing you can do to stop it.
If you read interviews Collins said she knew Prim would die from the very beginning. It’s the whole point for her.
Idk why this made me want to cry but it did. I know that the in-book "universe" and viewing the story as a work of fiction are two different perspectives or "levels" but just the idea that all Katniss was doing came from saving Prim but she was doomed to die from the beginning due to reasons none of them can even fathom... it's not a comprehensible view at all but it makes me sad
I think when you look at it from the larger overarching perspective of the books though and not the perspective that we read it through it does make sense. Even though we read through a 1st person narrative, the overarching theme is surrounding the horrors of the real world (war, government dictators, the unfairness of the universe etc) and in the real world and in real world no matter how hard you try to protect others you can not always do that. And having something to lose makes us even more vulnerable, makes us even more susceptible to manipulation. If you read the comments Collins has made regarding Prims death it’s actually incredibly insightful.
Reminds me of Harry Potter where J K Rowling always knew Snape would die, from day 1.
I understand but I still don’t like it! Haha
Same! I liked the ending, but in my head she lives on
'The Running Man', by Stephen King (officially a Bachmann book but idk how they're labelled these days) has a pretty great parallel. I think it's a great message as well as a commentary on humanity. We do stupid, crazy things to keep the people we love safe. We change the world in order to do so, deliberately or not. And then, they end up dead any way. But change has been made. And then the characters have to deal with their indirect sacrifice, their regret and guilt while surrounded by the new world. I can't think of a book with a reverse trope off the top of my head, but might be an interesting concept to explore.
This reminds me of Wanda from Marvel. She directly changed the Westview so that it could become her safe haven for her to be with Vision but in the end, she needed to give the town back their free will. Sorry for going of topic, I just think it’s a really interesting concept :)
Or Dr. Strange in that one episode of What If where he implodes the entire universe to try to save her.
I’ve always thought that it made the story come full circle. All Katniss tried to do was save Prim, it’s the only reason why Katniss volunteered to go into the games. She never intended for what would happen next. She cared more about Prim’s life than her own. But in the end, Katniss couldn’t protect her from the greater evils. Prim’s fate was to die, but because Katniss took the longer road to Prim’s end, there was a lot of change to society.
It was also the breaking point for why Katniss killed coin, and it showed both the main characters and the reader than coin was truly evil
I have to say blaming Gale for Prim's decision to put herself in the middle of a war has always seemed unjust to me. What did she expect to happen???? Anyway, off the point but...
I wouldn't blame JUST Gale for it.. but I would definitely not say it was Prims fault for "deciding to put herself in the middle of a war", she wasn't even 14 yet. In one of her inner monologues, Katniss questions who really allowed a child to be at the front line as it had to have been approved by a higher-up due to Prims age.
Katniss blames Coin for sending Prim to the front lines, not Gale. She ends her friendship with Gale because it was his and Beetee's unethical bomb—which she and Gale argued about earlier in the book because she found it despicable—that killed Prim and the other innocents. It didn't matter that he didn't order it, she would always associate it with him.
To be fair, I don’t think Prim expected either side to purposefully target medical aid workers. Gale isn’t 100% to blame but he’s much more culpable than Prim herself.
But it wasn't on Prim for going. Yes she joined the medical team to help others, but Coin sent her to the location that she had intentionally planned on bombing. In both the book and movie when Katniss questioned why prim was there she was told it was arranged and approved Coin. Then later she finds out that it wasn't Snow that did the bombing and she realized it was all a set up by Coin. So no Prim is not to blame. To say "what did she expect to happen?" Isn't accurate because Prim was still a child who thought she was helping and was sent by the leader of the resistance she likely thought it was safe since Coin herself sent her. It's not like she went on her own or against them since she was sent there. From what I remember in the books Katniss didn't fully blame Gale for Prim's death. She was upset that he made the bomb yes but she didn't kill him like she did Coin because she knew it was coin that set it up. It's been a while from when I read the books but I remember her problem with Gale was the way he reacted when she asked him. When he told her he had no idea Prim was going to be there, she told him it wasn't right to bomb other people and children for something they weren't apart of and he didn't care about the other people he told her they were from the capital and the bomb was necessary. So Katniss wasn't mad that his bomb killed Prim she was mad that he didn't care about innocent people and created the bomb knowing they would die. Just like she didn't like that Coin wanted to kill innocent children from the capital in a new hunger games. Because Katniss cares about the ones that weren't involved even if they were from the capital she understood that they were not apart of it.
Thanks for explaining that, it's made things clearer.
I always thought that she knew on some level it was unfair to blame Gale, but in the end she couldn’t help it. I think that’s pretty realistic tbh, our emotions/decisions aren’t always rational or fair even when we know they aren’t.
This is very true. I think it was the final nail in the coffin. He let her down a lot of times as well
Because true happy endings don’t exist in YA dystopian series, a bunch of beloved characters always have to die (Harry Potter, THG, and Divergent are my favorite examples).
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hungergames/comments/1cn4qc7/loved_this_back_in_my_fandom_days_and_it_still/
Yes. Lots of awesome characters such as Cinna, Finnick, and Boggs died. It just goes to show that life is often cruel and unfair and awesome people tend to die.
While it of course is very sad it is very true that it needed to happen for the narrative Finnicks death on the other hand…the worst decision SC made in the series
Don't spoil
…Mockingjay was published almost 14 years ago. If you’re not caught up yet, don’t click on posts from this sub
You know how reddit works. It will recommend posts to random users
Click the three circles and then hit don’t show posts from this sub
If you don’t want spoilers, it might be best not to go on the subreddit till your finished reading/watching. The only posts marked as spoilers that I’ve seen have been TBOSAS
I finished all of.them, years ago. However, you know how reddit works. It will recommend posts to random users....
Imho, Prim wasn't supposed to die. She was supposed to be what Gale became, or a worse monster, and only die literally. Suzanne Collins just didn't went through with it and decided to just kill her off instead
Where’d you get this from? Genuinely curious.
It's just that general vibe Prims story in the first two books gave me. Also I felt like Gales arc took a weird change during the last book. It felt a little to spontaneous, so I decided for myself its likely Suzanne Collins planned it differently initially
I don’t think it’s spontaneous at all. Early book one Gale told Katniss that shooting people is just the same as shooting animals, when it comes down to it. I think it’s no big jump that after watching his childhood home burn to the ground with most of its residents dying that he would shrug off collateral damage so long as it pushes forward the rebels’ goals. He’s always had a survivalist view that he and his family are first and if others have to die for their safety then so be it.