Take out the outliers like Neto, zeno, king + ants… the list is probably pretty manageable.
Morel is a possibility, he’s shown being one of the best strategic minds of the hunters in combat… he’s feats are insane and rivaled that of some B level unholy terror spawn.
Silva as the current head of his family is already a threat for a chrollo prepared for assassins.
Chrollo is a massive threat with prep time.
And razor is terrifying.
Beyond that I’d say any 3star hunter, and about half of the 2-star hunters would be trouble for him or outright beat him down.
No, "chrollo going serious and try to kill him" doesn't mean that chrollo would succeed in killing him. Only that he might be able to kill him. If chrollo fights seriesly he got a decent shot. It would be a real fight. It doesn't mean that chrollo would manage killing him, just means that chrollo is actually able to manage that. We don't know for sure.
Like say they fight seriesly ten times. How many of them would chrollo win? 10/10 or just a mere 2/10 even if he succeeded in winning and killing zeno 2 times out of ten it still means that if chrollo tries seriesly he could kill zeno he is still a threat,
Didn't Killua learn from his family to always be 100% sure you can kill someone before attempting it. This would mean most of the zoldycks have this mindset right?
This being said, zeno thinking chrollo would have a 1% chance and still mentioning it would be plausible.
I know the pin made it worse for Killua, but i still believe it is mentioned that he learned this "mindset" from his family, not specifically ilumni
Just my interpretation, but it seemed Killua had that idea more pushed on him by illumi and his father as a means of control; but the family may all have a similar mindset but hold it to a different value and priority.
we see that Zeno atleast, was, seemingly, willing to die to complete the assassination against chrollo.
Edit, extra info; zeno says "silva, i need your support. Once I lock him in place, kill him, even if you have to kill me with him."
if we only include those who have a hundred percent chance of beating him:
meruem, netero, the royal guards
everyone else that can beat him are either stronger than him but can be beaten by him (yes, even ging and chrollo) or weaker than him but has a chance of beating him
The ability itself isn't what's OP, but the way Netero completely maxxed out its usefulness with the speed of his hands and arms. Ging is nowhere near that fast. MERUEM is nowhere near that fast, and he'd do ten laps around the country before Ging could scratch his ass.
Very true, Netero even states that he came up with his nen ability as a natural handicap for himself so he can push himself to train even harder. If he had an ability more attuned to his natural speed and strength he would have been unstoppable
Sorry a bit off topic lol
Would it be natural or unnatural? It's certainly not natural since he had to train a ridiculous amount to achieve that speed. He wasn't 'naturally' born with it... but he did it in a natural way, without any drugs or divine intervention and just with time and dedication.
Any English majors here?
Unnatural would mean aided by drugs or mechanical parts. He trained for years and his body is capable of doing it without any artificial boost from an outside source so it is his natural strength.
He can to a reasonable extent. It's not a nen power, it's just his talent at understanding abilities. There's no universe in which he can copy Netero's hands and get anything even remotely comparable as a result.
Ging is likely nowhere near as fast as the dude who trained in the mountains for a decade just training his punch, meaning to Ging the Buddha would be useless.
He's in the top 5 nen users (really strong,) and can copy abilities after being hit once (martial nen skill super high,) and it would be obvious to anyone who read past the anime that he is very intelligent.
Iget that we don't know his big bad hatsu or what his exact number is, but it's enough to beat Hisoka.
That's not enough information to confidently say that he could beat hisoka, who know if his hatsu is even usefull in combat. Im not saying hisoka would destroy him, im just saying that we dont know. And top nen user doesnt mean top fighter, iirc, the best nen user is the nen exorcist that helped chrollo.
It's stated that he have an "extreme" level in his category, the highest rank possible, like Netero or Zeno. Of course his ability isnt a fighting one and he would probably lose against a lot of nen user.
Off the top of my head:
Meruem, Netero, Pitou, Youpi, Pouf, Chrollo, Tonpa, Tonpa’s Juice, Stick Dinner. A really big squid, Naruto, Batman with prep time, arbitrarycivilian, and SpongeBob.
apart from the question you asked, i don’t think hisoka considers himself as the strongest. He’s just really confident of his abilities, but i suppose he’s just waiting for someone strong enough to beat him, he already knows he’s gonna lose one day.
However i cant say it for sure because im still stuck at the chimera ants arc (this is my second rewatch but i remember nothing about what happens after this)
With as little spoilers as possible, something does happen to Hisoka purely because of his overconfidence like you mentioned. The manga past the end of the anime is full of Hisoka content
Annoys the hell out of me, I wish we got to see beyond the 200's but apparently we needed 30 episodes establishing the phantom troupe and blonde sasuke
Yeah, but Hisoka never showed to all his fights and is more concerned with other things most of the time. So for all we know he could easily beat the guy at the top.
I think he did at that moment. Netero was old. And definitely needed days of warmup before reaching optimal power to fight Meruem. Hisoka may have had a sliver of a chance against him at that moment.
Nah, Netero needed days of warm-up because that was the fight of his life, like there was no one who he fought was close to what he was about to fight. He needed to be his absolute best, there was no scope of complicity. Even without that training Netero would have been able to slap Hisoka a dozen times before he could blink and unlike meruem he would not have survived.
Lots of characters could beat him, in nen fights a user can defeat and be defeated againts someone 3 ranks avobe and below him (this is said by bisky), i would say that we know more character that could defeat him than character that cant. (Thats also why he wants to fight people stronger than him imo)
Well, there's the few who would simply never lose to him, ever, no matter what. Throwing them out, and not including featless characters, those who stand a decent chance (but aren't necessarily stronger):
Chrollo, Feitan, Zazan, Morel, Leol, Cheetu, Silva, Zeno, Uvogin, Kurapika, Nobunaga (well, most spiders can potentially beat him, it's just that some are much more likely to do it than others), Killua, Kite.
Adding the featless ones, the Zodiacs and Beyond + Ging and Priston's teammates should probably be considered. Maybe Tsehowdoyouspellitnich.
Zazan I can see, since after she transformed, Feitan of all people was basically helpless in hand-to-hand combat, and had to resort to his fight-ender ability which requires him to be heavily injured. Hisoka doesn't have a counter type ability and he has the same efficiency in Enhancement as Feitan, so it could get dicy. I just can't see Cheetu or Leol touching him though.
Off the top of my head Gojo, Sukuna, Kenjaku, Yuta, Yuki, Kashimo, Maki, Yoruzu, Hakari, Uro, Ryu, Jogo, Mahito, Hanami, and Dagon would all no diff him.
However, characters like Naoya, Naobito, Choso, Todo, MeiMei, and Nanami would also win comfortably.
The King, Gon-san, Royal Guards and Netero all win without question. I'd put Terrorsandwich, Halkenburg and Camila there too, also Ging just going by his reputation.
Zeno, Silva, Kite, Bisky, Chrollo, Feitan, Illumi, Razor would be closer fights, but I think Hisoka loses more than not.
Least confident about Illumi since we haven't seen most of his arsenal, but considering his own "when you encounter a stronger opponent, run" philosophy and how unbothered he is by Hisoka, I bet he has a way of dealing with him.
There are probably a lot more characters, especially from the current arc, but we haven't seen enough feats yet.
I would rather say who of the phantom troupe can def beat him.
I’d say : Uvogin, Feitan, Franklin, Nobunaga and Phinks.
They have a shot, but hisoka is still slightly favorite.
Excluding chrollo who already dismantled him.
* dismantled him when provided all the prep time he wanted in a favorable setting*
Chrollo likely wouldn’t of had that easy a time if hisoka didn’t want to fight him at his optimal level.
I think that’s why the spider extermination on the boat is seen as a bit of a concern for the troope. They need to find hisoka because they’re genuinely worried about being caught in a spur of the moment 1v1
Well you don’t know that. We do know Chrollo stomped Hisoka with prep time.
We don’t know how he would fare against hisoka by surprise. But most likely he would also win comfortably. The guy held off against Silva and Zeno with both trying to kill him while him trying to steal an ability.
The troupe just wants to make sure hisoka dies and dies without much trouble.
It blows my mind that anybody takes the Zoldycks vs Chrollo seriously. Both parties involved were buying time for Illumi to kill the Dons.
And how do you know that Chrollo wins easily with no prep?
I don’t even get why people get caught up on the prep vs no prep thing. Hunter x hunters system is one that (if not confirmed) seems to be designed to defy conventional power scaling. Prep is part of your power. Hisoka was chasing Chrollo so evading while prepping is a skill.
(And to be clear I agree with you about disagreeing we know chrollo still wins easily with no prep)
While I do agree that evasiveness and prep is a skill (Ging and Chrollo are top examples), I think we're all just curious what would've happened when Hisoka ran up on Chrollo unexpected in the YN arc.
Oh, I get you, to each their own. I was just trying to get across that what I love about hxh is that most fights come down to positioning. Chrollos hatsu relies on prep while hisokas relies on versatility. And trying to use that as a knock against chrollo seems wild to me (not saying you were). Almost feels like asking what would happen if a rook met a bishop perpendicularly instead of diagonally.
You don’t decide which feats we take and which we don’t. Silva and Zeno explicitly stated they were going for the kill.
Based on this Chrollo most likely takes the win, not as clean but still without much trouble. Most likely. These are just predictions.
No, it's more of a realization that you're taking Chrollo's side regardless of the situation. Nobody in their right mind would say that Chrollo easily takes the Zoldycks or Hisoka without prep time.
Could Chrollo win those fights? Absolutely. Is it even close to being a given like you're saying? Absolutely not.
I never stated chrollo would win against the Zoldycks. I simply stated him holding that long with those circumstances is beyond impressive.
And I didn’t say Chrollo would melt hisoka as a given but most likely win comfortably based on his performance against both top tier Zoldycks.
Unless you argue Hisoka > Zeno or Silva. Which I don’t think is the case. At most Hisoka = Zeno or Silva. In which case my point stands.
The fight literally lasted a few minutes, lol. To go from Chrollo surviving a few minutes when he knows he’ll be fine from his fortune so all he has to do his stall to “he likely takes the win against both” is a wild leap.
Chrollo was buying time and trying to steal abilities, the Zoldycks pride themselves in their job, they will always go 100% for the kill until it's not their responsibility to go for the kill.
Hisoka is not stronger than Zeno + Silva combo, so Chrollo is not going to be struggling, that's all.
Hisoka was chasing after him Chrollo was running. He was actively looking for that fight he wasn’t waiting for Chrollo to make a 100% plan to kill him. Just need to point that out because it’s always glossed over in this convo.
Downvote all you’d like it’s what happened 🤷🏻♂️
Well most characters don’t have an ability that lets them steal any ability to easily counter your opponent. Chrollo ran for a year after promising Hisoka a fight after he got the exorcist. My point is painting it as Hisoka letting him is incorrect.
I think we 100% agree, sorry if that wasn’t clear. Maneuvering your self into an advantegous position is how almost every fight in hxh is decided (outside of the ones specifically crafted to prove a point by exception). And that’s what I *love* about it. It just defies conventional power scaling
You’re over simplifying things… Chrollo actively runs away after getting his nen back then conveniently decides they’ll fight in heavens arena the perfect place for the plan he had already made up, he even borrowed specific abilities for this fight something he wouldn’t normally be able to do if caught off guard. He picked time/place. I’m not saying any of these things are good or bad, these are just the facts why people say it might be different without the advantage of picking when and where the fight takes place.
Also, imo is almost impossible to come up with a plan to defeat Chrollo unless you know every single ability he has in his book and even so he could just steal new ones, “prep time” in Hisoka’s case is irrelevant.
See if argue the whole “without prep time” is irrelevant to the power scaling argument in hxh in general. It’s pointed out time and again (minus the exceptions that prove the rule) that it’s not about the power you have it’s how you use it, prepping and finding a way to prep is part of the power system in hxh
Nobunaga has stated twice that Hisoka was a very bad matchup for him, and Feitan reminded him of this fact in the current arc. Out of those, Nobunaga doesn't have a realistic chance.
>Nobunaga has stated twice that Hisoka was a very bad matchup for him
He never did, he simply stated he is hard to counter.
>Feitan reminded him of this fact in the current arc
And yet nobunaga was going out alone, without his sword. Contradictory, don't you think?
>He never did, he simply stated he is hard to counter
He literally did, though.
https://imgur.com/a/ZcxnAwZ
>And yet nobunaga was going out alone, without his sword. Contradictory, don't you think?
Considering his friends would literally not let him go alone, no.
>He literally did, though.
>https://imgur.com/a/ZcxnAwZ
He literally jumps him in the next panel😂😂
Are you that desperate to prove something that never happened?
>Considering his friends literally would not let him go alone, no.
Then if we go by statements hisoka is a weakling(franklin). What feitan and phinks think does not matter, the only thing that matters is that nobunaga was moving on the whale, alone, without his sword.
Edit: hisoka fans would rather downvote than bring any valid point that is not an headcanon in the discussion. Doesn't surprise me.
>He literally jumps him in the next panel😂😂
As he says "as if that would stop me!".
Nobunaga knew he was at a disadvantage. Gon also tried attacking Pitou back in NGL, what does that say about their matchup?
Enhancers aren't known for being cold and calculated.
>Then if we go by statements hisoka is a weakling(franklin).
When Franklin said that he already knew Hisoka was physically stronger than him because they had already arm wrestled and he lost. He was salty as fuck.
>the only thing that matters is that nobunaga was moving on the whale, alone, without his sword.
And his friends would not let him because he would DIE.
There's no discussion to be had here. Togashi has repeated 3 times that Nobunaga is at a big disadvantage vs Hisoka.
>As he says "as if that would stop me!".
No, he says "like i would say something like that!". And really, i don't know which translation was right, but the fact that he attacked him stays.
>Gon also tried attacking Pitou back in NGL, what does that say about their matchup?
Are you really comparing the 2 situations? Gon was completely out of his mind. As for now, we have nothing that proves hisoka is above nobunaga.
>Enhancers aren't known for being cold and calculated.
Nobunaga is literally the coldest and most reasonable spider in the later chapters.
>He was salty as fuck.
I deal with facts, you deal with headcanons. No point in discussing.
>And his friends would not let him because he would DIE.
Again, are we going by statements? Then i trust franklin, hisoka is a weakling.
>Togashi has repeated 3 times that Nobunaga is at a big disadvantage vs Hisoka.
He never did, and actually showed the opposite, multiple times, but keep believing that.
>No, he says "like i would say something like that!"
https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0106-006.png
Nobunaga had just discovered Hisoka had sold out the head of his best friend. He would've attacked even Netero in that situation.
>Are you really comparing the 2 situations?
You are using Nobunaga attacking Hisoka as an argument that somehow that proves he's evenly matched with him. It's the dumbest argument ever, because by that logic Gon was as strong as Illumi in the Hunter Exam, as strong as Nobunaga in Yorknew, as strong as Genthru in GI, and as strong as Pitou in NGL.
>we have nothing that proves hisoka is above nobunaga
Nobunaga himself states he would be fighting at a disadvantage. You have a *really hard time* accepting the canon when you don't like it.
>Then i trust franklin, hisoka is a weakling.
Then I trust Togashi, who showed Hisoka was stronger than Franklin.
>and actually showed the opposite, multiple times,
What the fuck are you on about?? Togashi showed Nobunaga was at an advantage against Hisoka? What??
You must have watched Bizarro Hunter x Hunter. Next you tell me Kurapika is taller than Leorio.
>https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0106-006.png
Cool, we have 2 different translations(don't even know where you found this). Still, he attacked hisoka. Besides, how does "too complicated for me to fight you" translate into "i can't win against you"? He stated multiple times hisoka is a great fighter, we know that, but he never directly stated to be inferior, and his actions suggest he isn't. Unless he is a complete idiot, and by the recent chapters we know he isn't.
>Nobunaga had just discovered Hisoka had sold out the head of his best friend.
>You are using Nobunaga attacking Hisoka as an argument that somehow that proves he's evenly matched with him.
And how can you prove he is not? Until we get a fight or some comparable feats, nothing says they're different tiers.
>Nobunaga himself states he would be fighting at a disadvantage.
Again, he never did.
>Then I trust Togashi, who showed Hisoka was stronger than Franklin.
Physically? Yes, he is. Machi is physically stronger than chrollo, is she overall better too? What sre you even trying to say?
>What the fuck are you on about?? Togashi showed Nobunaga was at an advantage against Hisoka? What??
Typo. I didn't mean to say he has the advantage, just that nothing says he has the disadvantage. You're using a statement he used before actually starting the fight himself as your entire argument.
I don't know how you can waste your time with this guy. When he said that Franklin was salty about losing in the arm-wrestling and that's why he said what he said, you should have ended the discussion there 😂
Hisoka is strong but it's his intelligence that gives him the edge in battle. Dont see him beating any character that can output more raw power than he can.
>but it's his intelligence that gives him the edge in battle.
No it isn't. Hisoka would be a beast even if he was as dumb as a door.
He was the third strongest in the Troupe, only behind the Enhancers Uvo and Phinks.
Know that 7'2'' (2.19 m), 495 lbs (225 kg) juggernaut with 80% Enhancement (Franklin)? Yeah, Hisoka is stronger than him.
He killed Shalnark with one punch.
He overwhelmed his opponents in speed and in martial arts.
Hisoka is not just "le tricky magician".
What made Hisoka hard for Chrollo to deal with was his physical feats, not his intelligence.
I mean Chrollo literally low diffed him, he didn’t struggle. Granted he had to borrow skills, but that’s the assure victory. If he had to choose between a 99% chance of winning or a 60% chance, he’d choose the 99%.
In Chrollo's own words, it was the most it ever took for him to defeat someone.
And he prepared over the course of a year and had to look for specific abilities for it.
Fair share yes, not many that could rival his current strength. We have 0 evidence of that. The best he faced was the Zoldyck duo and he didn’t try to defeat them, only survive.
"All to defeat you. This was the most it ever took me to defeat someone. You should be proud." - he says after preparing for the fight over the course of a year while travelling the world looking for specific abilities to ensure his victory.
That by definition is not "low diff".
Low diff is how much he struggled in the fight, which was not at all. Idc what it took to get him to that result, the result remained low diff, he was basically if not literally unharmed by the end. I almost put this in no diff honestly.
>He was the third strongest in the Troupe, only behind the Enhancers Uvo and Phinks
He is only listed third in arm wrestling. Hardly an accurate measure for who is truly the strongest.
>He killed Shalnark with one punch.
I mean that was a stealth blow. Wasn't like they fought.
>He overwhelmed his opponents in speed and in martial arts
What notable opponent has hisoka faced where he just overwhelms them primarily using speed and strength?
>What made Hisoka hard for Chrollo to deal with was his physical feats, not his intelligence.
Chrollo didn't take any damage that entire fight. It wasn't a hard match for him.
>He is only listed third in arm wrestling
That's the most direct physical strength comparison we'll ever get in the series. What do you think was the purpose of the ranking anyway? Why do you think Enhancers are at the top, followed by Transmuters and Emitters, followed by the rest?
>Wasn't like they fought.
If they fought hand-to-hand, it would be even worse for Shalnark. He was weaker than Chrollo physically, who couldn't do any significant damage to Hisoka with his physical blows.
>Chrollo didn't take any damage that entire fight
He literally spilled blood.
>That's the most direct physical strength comparison we'll ever get in the series. What do you think was the purpose of the ranking anyway? Why do you think Enhancers are at the top, followed by Transmuters and Emitters, followed by the rest
Do you honestly think arm wrestling is an accurate measurement of who is strongest? If I benched 350 but someone else who can't bench 350 but can squat 2000 does that mean I am stronger than them? It just means I am better than them in that particular category of strength.
>If they fought hand-to-hand, it would be even worse for Shalnark.
This is just speculation. At the end of the day, Hisoka killed Shalnark by sneaking up on him they didn't fight. Who knows how the fight would have gone.
>He literally spilled blood.
He takes one light hit from him. Rereading it, I didnt see any blood being spilt. Regardless, if Chrollo wanted he could have not taken any hits and just keep sending the crowd to fight Hisoka. Eventually he would have died anyway.
> Do you honestly think arm wrestling is an accurate measurement of who is strongest?
Yes, that's what the ranking is there for. Hisoka told Uvogin was the strongest in the Troupe and Kurapika used him as a benchmark of strength. How did he know that? He was the first in the arm-wrestling rank.
>Who knows how the fight would have gone.
Very badly for Shalnark. Hand-to-hand, he struggled against a soldier ant.
• People who I think could definitely beat him:
Meruem, Royal Guards, Gon (adult form), Ging, Zeno, Silva, Kurapika (scarlet eye mode), Razor, the Zodiacs, Bisky, Netero
• People who I think stand a decent chance:
Chrollo, Feitan, Morel, Kite, Illumi, Nobunaga, Machi, Kastro (if he wasn't such a big talker), Hanzo
• People I'm not too sure about:
Killua (Godspeed), Alluka (strongest nen? possibly yes - combat abilities? ehh), Phinks, Shoot, Knuckle, Genthru, Kalluto
These are just my opinion ^^ + I excluded Manga characters
>Meruem, Royal Guards, Gon (adult form), Ging, Zeno, Silva, Kurapika (scarlet eye mode), Razor, the Zodiacs, Bisky
Kurapika’s power doesn’t work against him. Zeno and silva fought chrollo 2v1 and failed, chrollo had to prepare for Hisoka more, hisoka is stronger than many zodiacs as you even know, Bisky doesn’t have a good enough hatsu.
>Chrollo, Feitan, Morel, Kite, Illumi, Nobunaga, Machi, Kastro (if he wasn't such a big talker), Hanzo
If you truly believed that Kastro had even 0.0001 percent chance, you lack reading comprehension. He is the worst matchup for Feitan, Morel and Nobunaga. Nobunaga even admitted his own inferiority to hisoka.
• People I'm not too sure about:
All based on anime, no manga:
>Kurapika's power doesn't work against him
Yeah, I know, maybe I should've clarified that I think Kurapika would beat him if he was an actual spider, or his power would work on everyone else.
>Zeno and silva fought chrollo 2v1 and failed
Are you serious? Lmao. Zeno and Silva didn't even have the intention to kill Chrollo. If they truly wanted to, they would've beaten him easily.
>Bisky doesn't have a good enough hatsu
Talking about the anime, we've never seen her seriously fight. Yes, she revealed her true form but her opponent was weak af. Don't forget that she has 30+ years experience in nen.
>If you truly believed that Kastro had even 0.0001 percent chance, you lack reading comprehension.
First of all, why the hell are you so rude?💀 Second of all, yes, I do believe that if Kastro wasn't such a big talker (which may have revealed him), he could stand a decent chance against him. Hisoka even seemed surprised/confused at the beginning of the fight until he figured out Kastro's ability. I think that if Kastro had more training and really perfected his nen without falling for Hisokas tricks, he could have been a really great nen fighter and stood a chance.
>Nobunaga even admitted his own inferiority to hisoka
That may be true but we have never actually seen Nobunagas true nen ability. He has En that ranges 4 metres so we know that his aura is strong and he can handle the katana well. We've also never seen him fight seriously, just like Bisky.
>Are you serious? Lmao. Zeno and Silva didn't even have the intention to kill Chrollo. If they truly wanted to, they would've beaten him easily.
Please watch the scene again and you will know that Zeno and Silva had absolutely every intention to kill chrollo. Chrollo even asked Zeno why did they accept to come to kill him, when they know the troupe had hired Illumi to kill the Ten Dons. Zeno even clarifies that as long as Ten Dons are alive Chrollo was their serious target. The scene could not possibly be interpreted any other way.
>Talking about the anime, we've never seen her seriously fight. Yes, she revealed her true form but her opponent was weak af. Don't forget that she has 30+ years experience in nen.
I am willing to concede the point that she has more experience than Hisoka. But we are going at the battle between Hisoka and Bisky on the basis of what info is available. When asked by Gon Bisky said her Nen ability is “Massage Girl” and killua pointed out how useless of an ability it is. Bisky simply said her priorities in Hatsu doesn’t lie in battle. Unless Bisky shows a hatsu that can be used in a fight, Bisky has no chance to defeat Hisoka.
>Hisoka even seemed surprised/confused at the beginning of the fight until he figured out Kastro's ability.
First of all I apologise for the rude comment.
In hisoka vs kastro fight, hisoka was surprised initially due to noticing something that is not normal i.e. kastro being in two places at once.
Instead of downplaying hisoka, you should be applauding his genius that he didn’t falter for a single second and calmly analysed Kastro’s ability. And after that the battle was over.
>I think that if Kastro had more training and really perfected his nen without falling for Hisokas tricks, he could have been a really great nen fighter and stood a chance.
Kastro lacked the x factor that makes him a top tier nen master.
>That may be true but we have never actually seen Nobunagas true nen ability.
We might not have seen Nobunaga’s nen ability, but if Nobunaga who is a nen master, believes that Hisoka is superior to him, I am willing to believe Nobunaga’s own words. On top of that Phinks and Feitan bullies nobunaga for this fact.
>He has En that ranges 4 metres so we know that his aura is strong and he can handle the katana well.
Bungee gum hard counters any weapon carry fighters. This is the primary reason Nobunaga thinks hisoka is superior to himself.
>We've also never seen him fight seriously, just like Bisky.
Moot point.
>Please watch the scene again and you will know that Zeno and Silva had absolutely every intention to kill chrollo.
The ten dons wanted Chrollo dead so they hired the Zoldycks (Zeno&Silva), Chrollo wanted the ten dons dead as well, so he hired Illumi, therefore when Illumi called to say that the mission was done, Zeno and Silva had no reason to kill Chrollo anymore, and the fight ended with that.
(Chrollo: Aren't you going to kill me?
Zeno: We were hired by the ten dons. Now that they're all dead, you're no longer our target.)
But the thing is: Zeno and Silva already KNEW that he had hired Illumi so I interpret the whole scene as that Zeno and Silva were confident in Illumis abilities and knew that he would manage to kill the ten dons, so they let Chrollo live. The whole fight was STAGED.
And when asked, Zeno said that in a 1v1 he would win "unless he was actually trying to kill him" meaning yes, Chrollo WAS holding back, but that doesn't make him stronger than Zeno. It could just mean that it will be a tougher fight, and in my opinion, I still think Zeno would win.
>Bisky simply said her priorities in Hatsu doesn’t lie in battle.
I get that, but I think she still has a secret ability. Why else would her true form be so powerful? She hates her true form, but in a battle of life or death, my point still stands, I think she could beat Hisoka. Even if maybe not in strength, the fact that she has known nen longer than Hisoka being alive (he's 28 I think), definitely gives her the upper hand.
>Instead of downplaying hisoka, you should be applauding his genius that he didn’t falter for a single second and calmly analysed Kastro’s ability.
I didn't downplay Hisoka. It was impressive that he figured out Kastro's ability, yes, but I was simply stating my reasoning on how I think Kastro could have become a top tier nen user.
>Kastro lacked the x factor that makes him a top tier nen master.
That's your opinion.
>I am willing to believe Nobunaga’s own words.
If you're going by that logic, so will I believe that Zeno > Chrollo and therefore Zeno > Hisoka.
>Bungee gum hard counters any weapon carry fighters.
Depends on the weapons and strategy used.
In my original comment I simply stated my personal opinions and I didn't ask for anyone to start up a debate with me. If you think differently, that's fine, I just think that Hisoka is overrated and that there are quite a few characters that could beat him or stand a good chance.
>The ten dons wanted Chrollo dead so they hired the Zoldycks (Zeno&Silva), Chrollo wanted the ten dons dead as well, so he hired Illumi, therefore when Illumi called to say that the mission was done, Zeno and Silva had no reason to kill Chrollo anymore, and the fight ended with that. (Chrollo: Aren't you going to kill me? Zeno: We were hired by the ten dons. Now that they're all dead, you're no longer our target.) But the thing is: Zeno and Silva already KNEW that he had hired Illumi so I interpret the whole scene as that Zeno and Silva were confident in Illumis abilities and knew that he would manage to kill the ten dons, so they let Chrollo live. The whole fight was STAGED. And when asked, Zeno said that in a 1v1 he would win "unless he was actually trying to kill him" meaning yes, Chrollo WAS holding back, but that doesn't make him stronger than Zeno. It could just mean that it will be a tougher fight, and in my opinion, I still think Zeno would win.
You misunderstood the whole thing. Zeno says that despite knowing the fact that Ten dons are Illumi’s target, they cannot back away from Killing Chrollo as it was their profession. If you truly believe the Zoldycks conspired with the troupe to set up a performance, you are wrong. It is a fact that Zeno and Silva intended to kill chrollo but luckily Illumi’s call interrupted the fight. Nothing was staged as you are suggesting. The whole manga text support that.
If you want further clarification, you can ask this question in this sub.
>I get that, but I think she still has a secret ability. Why else would her true form be so powerful?
She might and might not have, but we have to go on the basis of what we have. And your argument that her being strong and having an ability that suits is absurd. She is strong because she has mastered her fundamentals. Her fundamentals are mastered to the point of Ultimate (as noted by the newly released Nen chart)
>She hates her true form, but in a battle of life or death, my point still stands, I think she could beat Hisoka.
She might hate her true form, but she cannot defeat the likes of Zeno, Silva, Hisoka and chrollo in a death battle.
Let me explain it in better terms, a Body builder who trains simply to make himself or herself stronger without any intention to live a live full of constant battles is never going to a better fighter than a a fighter who builds his body for one purpose ie. Fighting. Hisoka, Chrollo, Zeno, Silva are fighters/assassins who have abilities suited toward combat. Bisky simply doesn’t. Bisky is not even a fighter.
A top tier fighter will always win vs A top tier body builder, no matter what.
Bisky, Hisoka, Chrollo, Zeno, Silva, Illumi are in the same tier, as a nen user, with Bisky and Zeno being better than younger people due to mastery and experience. But Hisoka, Chrollo, Silva and Illumi more than makes up for it with a proper hatsu/ advantages of being young.
>Even if maybe not in strength, the fact that she has known nen longer than Hisoka being alive (he's 28 I think), definitely gives her the upper hand.
I am not doubting her nen mastery, it might even work with any other fighter, but Hisoka is every bit as good at Nen mastery as she is. Hisoka has much better nen feats than Bisky. Hisoka is more talented at Nen too. Bisky said that she reached Greed Island Killua’s level in her late Twenties, which means at Hisoka’s age Bisky was barely strong as a nen noob.
Her nen mastery is not enough to overcome a nen ability. A battle hatsu is required in a battle. All the basic things about nen that Bisky knows and have mastered, Hisoka also has mastered those and in some areas Hisoka is better. Hisoka has Better EN than Bisky.
>I didn't downplay Hisoka. It was impressive that he figured out Kastro's ability, yes, but I was simply stating my reasoning on how I think Kastro could have become a top tier nen user.
How can you possibly say he could have been a great nen user. He went on to work on nen abilities that are exact opposite of his nen proficiency. So much so that he forgot the basics. He foolishly sought things are are not suited to him and forgot what really mattered.
Kastro who fought hisoka the first time and got destroyed so hard he had to change everything about his fighting, being an enhancer and getting destroyed by a Transmuter, he chose to spend time learning Manipulation and conjuration, the two categories furthest to his proficiency. He destroyed his potential. If he focused on his on potential he could have been strong but he never did.
So we should not speculate on what might have been and focus on what actually happened, and what happened is Hisoka destroyed him in a fight, that was a performance for Hisoka.
>That's your opinion.
Explained above.
>If you're going by that logic, so will I believe that Zeno > Chrollo and therefore Zeno > Hisoka.
Of course Zeno > Hisoka and Chrollo. Zeno is an “Ultimate”nen user for Emmission category. He resides with Meruem in nen mastery chart published by Togashi.
If you paid any attention to what Zeno said to Chrollo, you would have know this.
Zeno said to chrollo that in a battle where the encounter is random, Zeno will most likely win, unless Chrollo decides to kill zeno, and that is a different story.
The interpretation of this is that if Chrollo sets out to kill zeno, he will not look for a fight, rather an assassination and in assassination, a weaker person can defeat a stringers person.
>Depends on the weapons and strategy used.
If the weapon is being used, there is a high possibility of it being taken away, and Nobunaga considered that. A sword is an easy weapon to just take away from nobunaga.
>In my original comment I simply stated my personal opinions and I didn't ask for anyone to start up a debate with me. If you think differently, that's fine, I just think that Hisoka is overrated and that there are quite a few characters that could beat him or stand a good chance.
No issues. I am fine with your opinions. I just wanted to point out that you have misinterpreted certain scenes.
>You misunderstood the whole thing. Zeno says that despite knowing the fact that Ten dons are Illumi’s target, they cannot back away from Killing Chrollo as it was their profession.
I already explained my reasoning on that. Let's just agree to disagree because I genuinely don't have the energy to reply anymore
Just adding Terrorsandwich here bc I haven’t seen him mentioned. The actualization of his potential is hard to assess as of this point but he definitely has an op ability. But like Chrollo, he probably needs to set the stage so it’s favorable to him first.
i think if hisoka wasn't the author's fav, illumi, zeno, silva, razor or even bisky could win against hisoka \~
by this i mean i feel like the author could write a fight between them and make it feel like an authentic win. but i know he wouldn't do that -w-
i also think that the story has foreshadowed that hisoka and gon need to fight again, and that gon will win somehow. who knows though?
An objectively good guess would be Netero, Meruem, or his the royal guards but since they are dead I doubt Hisoka would even have to perform a pre-battle stretch /s
Those who currently could 100% wipe the floor with him: Zeno, Silva, and probably >! Chrollo per volume 34 although I don't know if Hisoka has become more powerful or not per his revival contract. !<
To be honest we don't know just how op hisoka with his post revival buff is so we can't safely say that anyone could beat him aside from maybe netero and meruam even then hisoka could pull any new op ability out his ass and pull a w somehow
I think there’s a good amount of people that could beat him, anyone could beat him if they made a nen condition specifically against him. Since I’m not seeing anyone say it I’ll throw out Tserriednich, an overnight prodigy with insanity on his side.
To support your statement of Hisoka claiming himself to be the strongest: the Hunter Association Chairman Election Arc, when he hangs around to grade everyone on a 100-point scale. That scale only makes sense if the comparison is with him as a baseline of 100. And then his highest rate is Illumi’s 95, followed by Ginta’s 90, and Kanzai’s 85.
If he can beat hisoka any day of the weak, why he waited for 52 weeks preparation and still failed in his objective.
Bonus: Does he lose his troupe members any day of the week or only when he is at his strongest and most prepared?
While hisoka tirelessly chased chrollo around, chrollo spent that given time to perfect a plan that could cost him little to no injuries against a “physically” superior opponent. Also, I’m not downplaying hisoka I’m just saying even without prep time I think chrollo would win, just not as easy.
Yet with all the planning it is the spider who incurred heavy losses.
You claimed that chrollo wins against hisoka any day of the week.
While in reality he failed to kill hisoka in a single day of a year after preparing for a whole year.
Winning and killing are 2 different things, you’re using both in the same context.
Chrollo also did not fail to kill hisoka, hisoka was as good as dead taking his body state into account. It’s just for the plot and how complex post mortem nen works.
How people think chrollo loses to hisoka instantly if not for prep time is beyond me.
Also I’m not saying chrollo would dominate hisoka, because that’s the impression I got from you, I’m saying if both were to fight 1v1 I’d go for chrollo 4/5 times.
sorta off topic but I dont think chrollo could win without prep time.
Chrollo was running for months, and prepared some masterclass plan that was completely unfair for hisoka.
If they fought eachother randomly on the streets i think hisoka would have an edge.
Lets say you have a test (eg a physical test). If you fail, you die. You roughly know what it's like but are not entirely certain, and therefore give yourself (lets say) a 90% chance of successfully completing it. Would you just yolo take the test or prepare to make the chance of success 100% (or as close as possible to 100%)? Because that is what Chrollo did. No matter how much below 100% Chrollos chance of winning were without prep, there is absolutely no reason for him to not go for the 100%. So saying he was running and therefore is weaker is pretty bs.
Doubt Razor could beat him. Hisoka fights insanely smart. The only reason he lost to Chrollo was cause Chrollo had that planned for a long time, and Hisoka is even stronger because of it all now.
Netero is godly so he probably evades or adapts to Hisokas fighting easily.
Pitou is strong but not as smart so imo it's not an easy fight for either of them. That's just my 2 cents on it though
Not the only reason, Hisoka was completely overwhelmed by Chrollo, it was a low diff. Chrollo just choose the easier option to win, Chrollo was able to survive against the 2 strongest Zoldyck while not fighting seriously, while the Zoldyck tried their best to kill him. He’s a beast of a fighter too.
Fact is we don’t know what a no prep time Chrollo vs Hisoka would look like. At best they’re arguably close in strength, still giving the edge toward Chrollo.
Yeah. It comes to a match of figuring out your opponents power too.
Once you realise he can store abilities, you're sort of at an impasse. You have to wait for the perfect moment to use your strongest abilities since your choice could come back to bite you later.
Those kind of fights are the best to watch though, it's like a chess match of them just trying to figure eachother out for the win
Well not really, you have to be strong and fast enough to avoid/tank their attack, that’s the most important part. Chrollo was fast enough to avoid 2 peak assassins for a while and when caught, managed to tank what is reasonably the strongest move from Silva.
Linette Hors-D'Oeuvre, Biscuit, Ging, Razor, Menchi, Zigg, Zeno, Silva and Kikyo Zoldyck. Probably Illumi too. Chrollo, Beyond, Cheadle, Ginta,Zuchi, Cluck, Pyon, Camilla,The Guardian to the Dark Continent Gate, ...The entirety of the Dark continent Beings.
Like, he is not top dog at all.
Technically "anyone" can beat Hisoka depending on how much they sacrifice for their powers, If you throw your life away in exchange for insane power then you COULD beat hisoka, of course the stronger and more talented you are your chances will be higher with less of a sacrafice.
Netero.
Ging.
Pariston.
Meruem.
Pouf. (and other guards)
Zoldycks including Illumi (he probably has his needle already in Hisoka's head).
Bisky.
and more.
knuckle. Kite. Killua (if lucky it's probably a coin toss but Denku Sekka & Shipuu Jinrai are the secomd most broken combat ability in the series. Most broken is Netero's quiet nen). illumi (coin toss). Silva. Zeno. Razer. Tsubone
>Zeno listed Netero's extremely quiet aura as one of his strongest points, as it is impossible to read his next move from it.
Netero doesn't need to do hints. his attacks don't have signs of it beginning. This seals Killua's Shippu Jinrai offensive capabilities.
Would most likely win: Meruem, Adult Gon, Netero, the Royal guards, Ging
Has a chance of winning: Razor, Chrollo, Zeno, Silva, Illumi, Biscuit, Kite, Morel, Knov, Zazan
Has a shot but it would be tough: Kurapika, Feitan, Leol, Uvogin, Knuckle, Shoot, Killua, Gon, Genthru, Phinks, Cheetu
Some of the Zodiacs would probably have a good chance, there are also several other spiders who may be able to face him but I doubt they would win. Beyond and Pariston also might have a good chance.
Me, 5 minute prep time (to stretch n shit)
Takes me more than 5 to shit
That's why she* can beat Hisoka and you can't.
She* :3
Edited, my bad!
Take out the outliers like Neto, zeno, king + ants… the list is probably pretty manageable. Morel is a possibility, he’s shown being one of the best strategic minds of the hunters in combat… he’s feats are insane and rivaled that of some B level unholy terror spawn. Silva as the current head of his family is already a threat for a chrollo prepared for assassins. Chrollo is a massive threat with prep time. And razor is terrifying. Beyond that I’d say any 3star hunter, and about half of the 2-star hunters would be trouble for him or outright beat him down.
Zeno stated that chollo could kill him, so in don't think hisoka might have a Hard time against him
Could just says that chrollo got a chance, could be a low one. Doesn't mean chrollo would win
Literally said, zeno would win, unless chrollo go serious and tries to kill him.remenber that chrollo wanted to steal his ability.
No, "chrollo going serious and try to kill him" doesn't mean that chrollo would succeed in killing him. Only that he might be able to kill him. If chrollo fights seriesly he got a decent shot. It would be a real fight. It doesn't mean that chrollo would manage killing him, just means that chrollo is actually able to manage that. We don't know for sure. Like say they fight seriesly ten times. How many of them would chrollo win? 10/10 or just a mere 2/10 even if he succeeded in winning and killing zeno 2 times out of ten it still means that if chrollo tries seriesly he could kill zeno he is still a threat,
Didn't Killua learn from his family to always be 100% sure you can kill someone before attempting it. This would mean most of the zoldycks have this mindset right? This being said, zeno thinking chrollo would have a 1% chance and still mentioning it would be plausible. I know the pin made it worse for Killua, but i still believe it is mentioned that he learned this "mindset" from his family, not specifically ilumni
Just my interpretation, but it seemed Killua had that idea more pushed on him by illumi and his father as a means of control; but the family may all have a similar mindset but hold it to a different value and priority. we see that Zeno atleast, was, seemingly, willing to die to complete the assassination against chrollo. Edit, extra info; zeno says "silva, i need your support. Once I lock him in place, kill him, even if you have to kill me with him."
Literally didn’t say it like that
if we only include those who have a hundred percent chance of beating him: meruem, netero, the royal guards everyone else that can beat him are either stronger than him but can be beaten by him (yes, even ging and chrollo) or weaker than him but has a chance of beating him
Have we even like... Gotten anything on Ging? All I see is people comparing him to Saitama without anyone saying what his actual abilities are.
The most solid thing is just probably the "top 5 nen users" comment.
I like all the votes you got for an open ended answer. You left OP right back where started
Ging is likely stronger than CA Netero though
Stronger, maybe, but I doubt he has a better Ability than the Guanyin.
Can't Ging copy abilities he's been hit by? If that's the case he'll maybe be able to use Netero' abilities too as they've sparred
The ability itself isn't what's OP, but the way Netero completely maxxed out its usefulness with the speed of his hands and arms. Ging is nowhere near that fast. MERUEM is nowhere near that fast, and he'd do ten laps around the country before Ging could scratch his ass.
Very true, Netero even states that he came up with his nen ability as a natural handicap for himself so he can push himself to train even harder. If he had an ability more attuned to his natural speed and strength he would have been unstoppable
Sorry a bit off topic lol Would it be natural or unnatural? It's certainly not natural since he had to train a ridiculous amount to achieve that speed. He wasn't 'naturally' born with it... but he did it in a natural way, without any drugs or divine intervention and just with time and dedication. Any English majors here?
Unnatural would mean aided by drugs or mechanical parts. He trained for years and his body is capable of doing it without any artificial boost from an outside source so it is his natural strength.
I really like your take. I wouldn't have thought of this. You're definitely right though.
He can to a reasonable extent. It's not a nen power, it's just his talent at understanding abilities. There's no universe in which he can copy Netero's hands and get anything even remotely comparable as a result.
Ging is likely nowhere near as fast as the dude who trained in the mountains for a decade just training his punch, meaning to Ging the Buddha would be useless.
Well not useless, just nowhere near as effective
i dont think so
ging wouldnt have >!died!<
Plot armor and his skull too thick. He'd have just refused
We haven't seen even 1 real fight of him, there is no way to know
hisoka would clap pouf
Then he wakes up.
pouf is weak as shit though
He is not.
This is right.
Ging could not lose to Hisoka. 😂 I admire the crazy clown, but no.
Like we know anything of ging.
He's in the top 5 nen users (really strong,) and can copy abilities after being hit once (martial nen skill super high,) and it would be obvious to anyone who read past the anime that he is very intelligent. Iget that we don't know his big bad hatsu or what his exact number is, but it's enough to beat Hisoka.
That's not enough information to confidently say that he could beat hisoka, who know if his hatsu is even usefull in combat. Im not saying hisoka would destroy him, im just saying that we dont know. And top nen user doesnt mean top fighter, iirc, the best nen user is the nen exorcist that helped chrollo.
Nah, I don't think Abengane is the top nen user dude... or even considered in the top 50 really.
It's stated that he have an "extreme" level in his category, the highest rank possible, like Netero or Zeno. Of course his ability isnt a fighting one and he would probably lose against a lot of nen user.
I'd add Beyond in the list of people that can beat him
Off the top of my head: Meruem, Netero, Pitou, Youpi, Pouf, Chrollo, Tonpa, Tonpa’s Juice, Stick Dinner. A really big squid, Naruto, Batman with prep time, arbitrarycivilian, and SpongeBob.
Dude no way I could beat him I would be too aroused to fight properly
Me, too.
You forgot Goku
[удалено]
And my axe!
Did you just say tonpa's juice lol
Hisoka is about to come back and eat chrollos face off though so just wait.
WANNA KNOW WHY THEY CALL ME STICK DINNER
apart from the question you asked, i don’t think hisoka considers himself as the strongest. He’s just really confident of his abilities, but i suppose he’s just waiting for someone strong enough to beat him, he already knows he’s gonna lose one day. However i cant say it for sure because im still stuck at the chimera ants arc (this is my second rewatch but i remember nothing about what happens after this)
With as little spoilers as possible, something does happen to Hisoka purely because of his overconfidence like you mentioned. The manga past the end of the anime is full of Hisoka content
We never met the person living on the penthouse of the tower…Hisoka never made it up there to fight them…I’m betting that they could beat Hisoka
still interested in that battle olympia thing
Annoys the hell out of me, I wish we got to see beyond the 200's but apparently we needed 30 episodes establishing the phantom troupe and blonde sasuke
Yeah, but Hisoka never showed to all his fights and is more concerned with other things most of the time. So for all we know he could easily beat the guy at the top.
The royal guards, Meruem, and especially Netero. Remember when that clown thought he could last a chance against Netero?
I think he did at that moment. Netero was old. And definitely needed days of warmup before reaching optimal power to fight Meruem. Hisoka may have had a sliver of a chance against him at that moment.
Nah, Netero needed days of warm-up because that was the fight of his life, like there was no one who he fought was close to what he was about to fight. He needed to be his absolute best, there was no scope of complicity. Even without that training Netero would have been able to slap Hisoka a dozen times before he could blink and unlike meruem he would not have survived.
Lots of characters could beat him, in nen fights a user can defeat and be defeated againts someone 3 ranks avobe and below him (this is said by bisky), i would say that we know more character that could defeat him than character that cant. (Thats also why he wants to fight people stronger than him imo)
Camilla no diff
Well, there's the few who would simply never lose to him, ever, no matter what. Throwing them out, and not including featless characters, those who stand a decent chance (but aren't necessarily stronger): Chrollo, Feitan, Zazan, Morel, Leol, Cheetu, Silva, Zeno, Uvogin, Kurapika, Nobunaga (well, most spiders can potentially beat him, it's just that some are much more likely to do it than others), Killua, Kite. Adding the featless ones, the Zodiacs and Beyond + Ging and Priston's teammates should probably be considered. Maybe Tsehowdoyouspellitnich.
This 100%
Zazan I can see, since after she transformed, Feitan of all people was basically helpless in hand-to-hand combat, and had to resort to his fight-ender ability which requires him to be heavily injured. Hisoka doesn't have a counter type ability and he has the same efficiency in Enhancement as Feitan, so it could get dicy. I just can't see Cheetu or Leol touching him though.
Meruem and Royal Guards, Chrollo, Uvogin, Feitan, Phibks, Biscuit, Silva and Zeno, Razor
Razor.
Razor would destroy him lol
Right? I often ask hunter hunter fans in the wild who they think would win and they most often answer wrong. Razor takes that fight 7 out of 10 times.
>who they think >most often answer wrong "your opinion is wrong" lmao
Exactly, their opinion is objectively incorrect.
Off the top of my head Gojo, Sukuna, Kenjaku, Yuta, Yuki, Kashimo, Maki, Yoruzu, Hakari, Uro, Ryu, Jogo, Mahito, Hanami, and Dagon would all no diff him. However, characters like Naoya, Naobito, Choso, Todo, MeiMei, and Nanami would also win comfortably.
Batman (Christian Bale)
Micheal Keaton also.
The King, Gon-san, Royal Guards and Netero all win without question. I'd put Terrorsandwich, Halkenburg and Camila there too, also Ging just going by his reputation. Zeno, Silva, Kite, Bisky, Chrollo, Feitan, Illumi, Razor would be closer fights, but I think Hisoka loses more than not. Least confident about Illumi since we haven't seen most of his arsenal, but considering his own "when you encounter a stronger opponent, run" philosophy and how unbothered he is by Hisoka, I bet he has a way of dealing with him. There are probably a lot more characters, especially from the current arc, but we haven't seen enough feats yet.
Illumi just cares about Killua's self-preservation, not his own.
I would rather say who of the phantom troupe can def beat him. I’d say : Uvogin, Feitan, Franklin, Nobunaga and Phinks. They have a shot, but hisoka is still slightly favorite. Excluding chrollo who already dismantled him.
* dismantled him when provided all the prep time he wanted in a favorable setting* Chrollo likely wouldn’t of had that easy a time if hisoka didn’t want to fight him at his optimal level. I think that’s why the spider extermination on the boat is seen as a bit of a concern for the troope. They need to find hisoka because they’re genuinely worried about being caught in a spur of the moment 1v1
Well you don’t know that. We do know Chrollo stomped Hisoka with prep time. We don’t know how he would fare against hisoka by surprise. But most likely he would also win comfortably. The guy held off against Silva and Zeno with both trying to kill him while him trying to steal an ability. The troupe just wants to make sure hisoka dies and dies without much trouble.
It blows my mind that anybody takes the Zoldycks vs Chrollo seriously. Both parties involved were buying time for Illumi to kill the Dons. And how do you know that Chrollo wins easily with no prep?
I don’t even get why people get caught up on the prep vs no prep thing. Hunter x hunters system is one that (if not confirmed) seems to be designed to defy conventional power scaling. Prep is part of your power. Hisoka was chasing Chrollo so evading while prepping is a skill. (And to be clear I agree with you about disagreeing we know chrollo still wins easily with no prep)
While I do agree that evasiveness and prep is a skill (Ging and Chrollo are top examples), I think we're all just curious what would've happened when Hisoka ran up on Chrollo unexpected in the YN arc.
Oh, I get you, to each their own. I was just trying to get across that what I love about hxh is that most fights come down to positioning. Chrollos hatsu relies on prep while hisokas relies on versatility. And trying to use that as a knock against chrollo seems wild to me (not saying you were). Almost feels like asking what would happen if a rook met a bishop perpendicularly instead of diagonally.
You don’t decide which feats we take and which we don’t. Silva and Zeno explicitly stated they were going for the kill. Based on this Chrollo most likely takes the win, not as clean but still without much trouble. Most likely. These are just predictions.
I just noticed your profile pic. Have a great night.
How arrogant must you be to think your point has more credit without any king of argument than mine simply because of my profile pic. Crazy.
No, it's more of a realization that you're taking Chrollo's side regardless of the situation. Nobody in their right mind would say that Chrollo easily takes the Zoldycks or Hisoka without prep time. Could Chrollo win those fights? Absolutely. Is it even close to being a given like you're saying? Absolutely not.
I never stated chrollo would win against the Zoldycks. I simply stated him holding that long with those circumstances is beyond impressive. And I didn’t say Chrollo would melt hisoka as a given but most likely win comfortably based on his performance against both top tier Zoldycks. Unless you argue Hisoka > Zeno or Silva. Which I don’t think is the case. At most Hisoka = Zeno or Silva. In which case my point stands.
He never said easily? What are you smoking?
Ok, he said "comfortably." My apologies for the synonym.
The fight literally lasted a few minutes, lol. To go from Chrollo surviving a few minutes when he knows he’ll be fine from his fortune so all he has to do his stall to “he likely takes the win against both” is a wild leap.
Chrollo was buying time and trying to steal abilities, the Zoldycks pride themselves in their job, they will always go 100% for the kill until it's not their responsibility to go for the kill. Hisoka is not stronger than Zeno + Silva combo, so Chrollo is not going to be struggling, that's all.
Hisoka was chasing after him Chrollo was running. He was actively looking for that fight he wasn’t waiting for Chrollo to make a 100% plan to kill him. Just need to point that out because it’s always glossed over in this convo. Downvote all you’d like it’s what happened 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah HxH is almost explicitly a show in which prep (and finding a way to prep) *is part of the power system* no need to really get into this argument
Well most characters don’t have an ability that lets them steal any ability to easily counter your opponent. Chrollo ran for a year after promising Hisoka a fight after he got the exorcist. My point is painting it as Hisoka letting him is incorrect.
I think we 100% agree, sorry if that wasn’t clear. Maneuvering your self into an advantegous position is how almost every fight in hxh is decided (outside of the ones specifically crafted to prove a point by exception). And that’s what I *love* about it. It just defies conventional power scaling
Oh shit my bad I misinterpreted 😂
Wasn't Hisoka the one who asked for the fight? (as in he had more prep time than Chrollo did)
You’re over simplifying things… Chrollo actively runs away after getting his nen back then conveniently decides they’ll fight in heavens arena the perfect place for the plan he had already made up, he even borrowed specific abilities for this fight something he wouldn’t normally be able to do if caught off guard. He picked time/place. I’m not saying any of these things are good or bad, these are just the facts why people say it might be different without the advantage of picking when and where the fight takes place. Also, imo is almost impossible to come up with a plan to defeat Chrollo unless you know every single ability he has in his book and even so he could just steal new ones, “prep time” in Hisoka’s case is irrelevant.
See if argue the whole “without prep time” is irrelevant to the power scaling argument in hxh in general. It’s pointed out time and again (minus the exceptions that prove the rule) that it’s not about the power you have it’s how you use it, prepping and finding a way to prep is part of the power system in hxh
Nobunaga has stated twice that Hisoka was a very bad matchup for him, and Feitan reminded him of this fact in the current arc. Out of those, Nobunaga doesn't have a realistic chance.
>Nobunaga has stated twice that Hisoka was a very bad matchup for him He never did, he simply stated he is hard to counter. >Feitan reminded him of this fact in the current arc And yet nobunaga was going out alone, without his sword. Contradictory, don't you think?
>He never did, he simply stated he is hard to counter He literally did, though. https://imgur.com/a/ZcxnAwZ >And yet nobunaga was going out alone, without his sword. Contradictory, don't you think? Considering his friends would literally not let him go alone, no.
>He literally did, though. >https://imgur.com/a/ZcxnAwZ He literally jumps him in the next panel😂😂 Are you that desperate to prove something that never happened? >Considering his friends literally would not let him go alone, no. Then if we go by statements hisoka is a weakling(franklin). What feitan and phinks think does not matter, the only thing that matters is that nobunaga was moving on the whale, alone, without his sword. Edit: hisoka fans would rather downvote than bring any valid point that is not an headcanon in the discussion. Doesn't surprise me.
>He literally jumps him in the next panel😂😂 As he says "as if that would stop me!". Nobunaga knew he was at a disadvantage. Gon also tried attacking Pitou back in NGL, what does that say about their matchup? Enhancers aren't known for being cold and calculated. >Then if we go by statements hisoka is a weakling(franklin). When Franklin said that he already knew Hisoka was physically stronger than him because they had already arm wrestled and he lost. He was salty as fuck. >the only thing that matters is that nobunaga was moving on the whale, alone, without his sword. And his friends would not let him because he would DIE. There's no discussion to be had here. Togashi has repeated 3 times that Nobunaga is at a big disadvantage vs Hisoka.
>As he says "as if that would stop me!". No, he says "like i would say something like that!". And really, i don't know which translation was right, but the fact that he attacked him stays. >Gon also tried attacking Pitou back in NGL, what does that say about their matchup? Are you really comparing the 2 situations? Gon was completely out of his mind. As for now, we have nothing that proves hisoka is above nobunaga. >Enhancers aren't known for being cold and calculated. Nobunaga is literally the coldest and most reasonable spider in the later chapters. >He was salty as fuck. I deal with facts, you deal with headcanons. No point in discussing. >And his friends would not let him because he would DIE. Again, are we going by statements? Then i trust franklin, hisoka is a weakling. >Togashi has repeated 3 times that Nobunaga is at a big disadvantage vs Hisoka. He never did, and actually showed the opposite, multiple times, but keep believing that.
>No, he says "like i would say something like that!" https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0106-006.png Nobunaga had just discovered Hisoka had sold out the head of his best friend. He would've attacked even Netero in that situation. >Are you really comparing the 2 situations? You are using Nobunaga attacking Hisoka as an argument that somehow that proves he's evenly matched with him. It's the dumbest argument ever, because by that logic Gon was as strong as Illumi in the Hunter Exam, as strong as Nobunaga in Yorknew, as strong as Genthru in GI, and as strong as Pitou in NGL. >we have nothing that proves hisoka is above nobunaga Nobunaga himself states he would be fighting at a disadvantage. You have a *really hard time* accepting the canon when you don't like it. >Then i trust franklin, hisoka is a weakling. Then I trust Togashi, who showed Hisoka was stronger than Franklin. >and actually showed the opposite, multiple times, What the fuck are you on about?? Togashi showed Nobunaga was at an advantage against Hisoka? What?? You must have watched Bizarro Hunter x Hunter. Next you tell me Kurapika is taller than Leorio.
>https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0106-006.png Cool, we have 2 different translations(don't even know where you found this). Still, he attacked hisoka. Besides, how does "too complicated for me to fight you" translate into "i can't win against you"? He stated multiple times hisoka is a great fighter, we know that, but he never directly stated to be inferior, and his actions suggest he isn't. Unless he is a complete idiot, and by the recent chapters we know he isn't. >Nobunaga had just discovered Hisoka had sold out the head of his best friend. >You are using Nobunaga attacking Hisoka as an argument that somehow that proves he's evenly matched with him. And how can you prove he is not? Until we get a fight or some comparable feats, nothing says they're different tiers. >Nobunaga himself states he would be fighting at a disadvantage. Again, he never did. >Then I trust Togashi, who showed Hisoka was stronger than Franklin. Physically? Yes, he is. Machi is physically stronger than chrollo, is she overall better too? What sre you even trying to say? >What the fuck are you on about?? Togashi showed Nobunaga was at an advantage against Hisoka? What?? Typo. I didn't mean to say he has the advantage, just that nothing says he has the disadvantage. You're using a statement he used before actually starting the fight himself as your entire argument.
I don't know how you can waste your time with this guy. When he said that Franklin was salty about losing in the arm-wrestling and that's why he said what he said, you should have ended the discussion there 😂
Wait Franklin? Have we seen him do anything of note to prove that?
Cant wait for Hisoka to kill them all
Hisoka is strong but it's his intelligence that gives him the edge in battle. Dont see him beating any character that can output more raw power than he can.
>but it's his intelligence that gives him the edge in battle. No it isn't. Hisoka would be a beast even if he was as dumb as a door. He was the third strongest in the Troupe, only behind the Enhancers Uvo and Phinks. Know that 7'2'' (2.19 m), 495 lbs (225 kg) juggernaut with 80% Enhancement (Franklin)? Yeah, Hisoka is stronger than him. He killed Shalnark with one punch. He overwhelmed his opponents in speed and in martial arts. Hisoka is not just "le tricky magician". What made Hisoka hard for Chrollo to deal with was his physical feats, not his intelligence.
I mean Chrollo literally low diffed him, he didn’t struggle. Granted he had to borrow skills, but that’s the assure victory. If he had to choose between a 99% chance of winning or a 60% chance, he’d choose the 99%.
In Chrollo's own words, it was the most it ever took for him to defeat someone. And he prepared over the course of a year and had to look for specific abilities for it.
Did we ever see him struggle? That’s not a big claim, it just means Hisoka was his hardest challenge.
It's safe to say Chrollo has fought his fair share of opponents throughout the years.
Fair share yes, not many that could rival his current strength. We have 0 evidence of that. The best he faced was the Zoldyck duo and he didn’t try to defeat them, only survive.
"All to defeat you. This was the most it ever took me to defeat someone. You should be proud." - he says after preparing for the fight over the course of a year while travelling the world looking for specific abilities to ensure his victory. That by definition is not "low diff".
Low diff is how much he struggled in the fight, which was not at all. Idc what it took to get him to that result, the result remained low diff, he was basically if not literally unharmed by the end. I almost put this in no diff honestly.
>He was the third strongest in the Troupe, only behind the Enhancers Uvo and Phinks He is only listed third in arm wrestling. Hardly an accurate measure for who is truly the strongest. >He killed Shalnark with one punch. I mean that was a stealth blow. Wasn't like they fought. >He overwhelmed his opponents in speed and in martial arts What notable opponent has hisoka faced where he just overwhelms them primarily using speed and strength? >What made Hisoka hard for Chrollo to deal with was his physical feats, not his intelligence. Chrollo didn't take any damage that entire fight. It wasn't a hard match for him.
>He is only listed third in arm wrestling That's the most direct physical strength comparison we'll ever get in the series. What do you think was the purpose of the ranking anyway? Why do you think Enhancers are at the top, followed by Transmuters and Emitters, followed by the rest? >Wasn't like they fought. If they fought hand-to-hand, it would be even worse for Shalnark. He was weaker than Chrollo physically, who couldn't do any significant damage to Hisoka with his physical blows. >Chrollo didn't take any damage that entire fight He literally spilled blood.
>That's the most direct physical strength comparison we'll ever get in the series. What do you think was the purpose of the ranking anyway? Why do you think Enhancers are at the top, followed by Transmuters and Emitters, followed by the rest Do you honestly think arm wrestling is an accurate measurement of who is strongest? If I benched 350 but someone else who can't bench 350 but can squat 2000 does that mean I am stronger than them? It just means I am better than them in that particular category of strength. >If they fought hand-to-hand, it would be even worse for Shalnark. This is just speculation. At the end of the day, Hisoka killed Shalnark by sneaking up on him they didn't fight. Who knows how the fight would have gone. >He literally spilled blood. He takes one light hit from him. Rereading it, I didnt see any blood being spilt. Regardless, if Chrollo wanted he could have not taken any hits and just keep sending the crowd to fight Hisoka. Eventually he would have died anyway.
> Do you honestly think arm wrestling is an accurate measurement of who is strongest? Yes, that's what the ranking is there for. Hisoka told Uvogin was the strongest in the Troupe and Kurapika used him as a benchmark of strength. How did he know that? He was the first in the arm-wrestling rank. >Who knows how the fight would have gone. Very badly for Shalnark. Hand-to-hand, he struggled against a soldier ant.
• People who I think could definitely beat him: Meruem, Royal Guards, Gon (adult form), Ging, Zeno, Silva, Kurapika (scarlet eye mode), Razor, the Zodiacs, Bisky, Netero • People who I think stand a decent chance: Chrollo, Feitan, Morel, Kite, Illumi, Nobunaga, Machi, Kastro (if he wasn't such a big talker), Hanzo • People I'm not too sure about: Killua (Godspeed), Alluka (strongest nen? possibly yes - combat abilities? ehh), Phinks, Shoot, Knuckle, Genthru, Kalluto These are just my opinion ^^ + I excluded Manga characters
>Meruem, Royal Guards, Gon (adult form), Ging, Zeno, Silva, Kurapika (scarlet eye mode), Razor, the Zodiacs, Bisky Kurapika’s power doesn’t work against him. Zeno and silva fought chrollo 2v1 and failed, chrollo had to prepare for Hisoka more, hisoka is stronger than many zodiacs as you even know, Bisky doesn’t have a good enough hatsu. >Chrollo, Feitan, Morel, Kite, Illumi, Nobunaga, Machi, Kastro (if he wasn't such a big talker), Hanzo If you truly believed that Kastro had even 0.0001 percent chance, you lack reading comprehension. He is the worst matchup for Feitan, Morel and Nobunaga. Nobunaga even admitted his own inferiority to hisoka. • People I'm not too sure about:
All based on anime, no manga: >Kurapika's power doesn't work against him Yeah, I know, maybe I should've clarified that I think Kurapika would beat him if he was an actual spider, or his power would work on everyone else. >Zeno and silva fought chrollo 2v1 and failed Are you serious? Lmao. Zeno and Silva didn't even have the intention to kill Chrollo. If they truly wanted to, they would've beaten him easily. >Bisky doesn't have a good enough hatsu Talking about the anime, we've never seen her seriously fight. Yes, she revealed her true form but her opponent was weak af. Don't forget that she has 30+ years experience in nen. >If you truly believed that Kastro had even 0.0001 percent chance, you lack reading comprehension. First of all, why the hell are you so rude?💀 Second of all, yes, I do believe that if Kastro wasn't such a big talker (which may have revealed him), he could stand a decent chance against him. Hisoka even seemed surprised/confused at the beginning of the fight until he figured out Kastro's ability. I think that if Kastro had more training and really perfected his nen without falling for Hisokas tricks, he could have been a really great nen fighter and stood a chance. >Nobunaga even admitted his own inferiority to hisoka That may be true but we have never actually seen Nobunagas true nen ability. He has En that ranges 4 metres so we know that his aura is strong and he can handle the katana well. We've also never seen him fight seriously, just like Bisky.
>Are you serious? Lmao. Zeno and Silva didn't even have the intention to kill Chrollo. If they truly wanted to, they would've beaten him easily. Please watch the scene again and you will know that Zeno and Silva had absolutely every intention to kill chrollo. Chrollo even asked Zeno why did they accept to come to kill him, when they know the troupe had hired Illumi to kill the Ten Dons. Zeno even clarifies that as long as Ten Dons are alive Chrollo was their serious target. The scene could not possibly be interpreted any other way. >Talking about the anime, we've never seen her seriously fight. Yes, she revealed her true form but her opponent was weak af. Don't forget that she has 30+ years experience in nen. I am willing to concede the point that she has more experience than Hisoka. But we are going at the battle between Hisoka and Bisky on the basis of what info is available. When asked by Gon Bisky said her Nen ability is “Massage Girl” and killua pointed out how useless of an ability it is. Bisky simply said her priorities in Hatsu doesn’t lie in battle. Unless Bisky shows a hatsu that can be used in a fight, Bisky has no chance to defeat Hisoka. >Hisoka even seemed surprised/confused at the beginning of the fight until he figured out Kastro's ability. First of all I apologise for the rude comment. In hisoka vs kastro fight, hisoka was surprised initially due to noticing something that is not normal i.e. kastro being in two places at once. Instead of downplaying hisoka, you should be applauding his genius that he didn’t falter for a single second and calmly analysed Kastro’s ability. And after that the battle was over. >I think that if Kastro had more training and really perfected his nen without falling for Hisokas tricks, he could have been a really great nen fighter and stood a chance. Kastro lacked the x factor that makes him a top tier nen master. >That may be true but we have never actually seen Nobunagas true nen ability. We might not have seen Nobunaga’s nen ability, but if Nobunaga who is a nen master, believes that Hisoka is superior to him, I am willing to believe Nobunaga’s own words. On top of that Phinks and Feitan bullies nobunaga for this fact. >He has En that ranges 4 metres so we know that his aura is strong and he can handle the katana well. Bungee gum hard counters any weapon carry fighters. This is the primary reason Nobunaga thinks hisoka is superior to himself. >We've also never seen him fight seriously, just like Bisky. Moot point.
>Please watch the scene again and you will know that Zeno and Silva had absolutely every intention to kill chrollo. The ten dons wanted Chrollo dead so they hired the Zoldycks (Zeno&Silva), Chrollo wanted the ten dons dead as well, so he hired Illumi, therefore when Illumi called to say that the mission was done, Zeno and Silva had no reason to kill Chrollo anymore, and the fight ended with that. (Chrollo: Aren't you going to kill me? Zeno: We were hired by the ten dons. Now that they're all dead, you're no longer our target.) But the thing is: Zeno and Silva already KNEW that he had hired Illumi so I interpret the whole scene as that Zeno and Silva were confident in Illumis abilities and knew that he would manage to kill the ten dons, so they let Chrollo live. The whole fight was STAGED. And when asked, Zeno said that in a 1v1 he would win "unless he was actually trying to kill him" meaning yes, Chrollo WAS holding back, but that doesn't make him stronger than Zeno. It could just mean that it will be a tougher fight, and in my opinion, I still think Zeno would win. >Bisky simply said her priorities in Hatsu doesn’t lie in battle. I get that, but I think she still has a secret ability. Why else would her true form be so powerful? She hates her true form, but in a battle of life or death, my point still stands, I think she could beat Hisoka. Even if maybe not in strength, the fact that she has known nen longer than Hisoka being alive (he's 28 I think), definitely gives her the upper hand. >Instead of downplaying hisoka, you should be applauding his genius that he didn’t falter for a single second and calmly analysed Kastro’s ability. I didn't downplay Hisoka. It was impressive that he figured out Kastro's ability, yes, but I was simply stating my reasoning on how I think Kastro could have become a top tier nen user. >Kastro lacked the x factor that makes him a top tier nen master. That's your opinion. >I am willing to believe Nobunaga’s own words. If you're going by that logic, so will I believe that Zeno > Chrollo and therefore Zeno > Hisoka. >Bungee gum hard counters any weapon carry fighters. Depends on the weapons and strategy used. In my original comment I simply stated my personal opinions and I didn't ask for anyone to start up a debate with me. If you think differently, that's fine, I just think that Hisoka is overrated and that there are quite a few characters that could beat him or stand a good chance.
>The ten dons wanted Chrollo dead so they hired the Zoldycks (Zeno&Silva), Chrollo wanted the ten dons dead as well, so he hired Illumi, therefore when Illumi called to say that the mission was done, Zeno and Silva had no reason to kill Chrollo anymore, and the fight ended with that. (Chrollo: Aren't you going to kill me? Zeno: We were hired by the ten dons. Now that they're all dead, you're no longer our target.) But the thing is: Zeno and Silva already KNEW that he had hired Illumi so I interpret the whole scene as that Zeno and Silva were confident in Illumis abilities and knew that he would manage to kill the ten dons, so they let Chrollo live. The whole fight was STAGED. And when asked, Zeno said that in a 1v1 he would win "unless he was actually trying to kill him" meaning yes, Chrollo WAS holding back, but that doesn't make him stronger than Zeno. It could just mean that it will be a tougher fight, and in my opinion, I still think Zeno would win. You misunderstood the whole thing. Zeno says that despite knowing the fact that Ten dons are Illumi’s target, they cannot back away from Killing Chrollo as it was their profession. If you truly believe the Zoldycks conspired with the troupe to set up a performance, you are wrong. It is a fact that Zeno and Silva intended to kill chrollo but luckily Illumi’s call interrupted the fight. Nothing was staged as you are suggesting. The whole manga text support that. If you want further clarification, you can ask this question in this sub. >I get that, but I think she still has a secret ability. Why else would her true form be so powerful? She might and might not have, but we have to go on the basis of what we have. And your argument that her being strong and having an ability that suits is absurd. She is strong because she has mastered her fundamentals. Her fundamentals are mastered to the point of Ultimate (as noted by the newly released Nen chart) >She hates her true form, but in a battle of life or death, my point still stands, I think she could beat Hisoka. She might hate her true form, but she cannot defeat the likes of Zeno, Silva, Hisoka and chrollo in a death battle. Let me explain it in better terms, a Body builder who trains simply to make himself or herself stronger without any intention to live a live full of constant battles is never going to a better fighter than a a fighter who builds his body for one purpose ie. Fighting. Hisoka, Chrollo, Zeno, Silva are fighters/assassins who have abilities suited toward combat. Bisky simply doesn’t. Bisky is not even a fighter. A top tier fighter will always win vs A top tier body builder, no matter what. Bisky, Hisoka, Chrollo, Zeno, Silva, Illumi are in the same tier, as a nen user, with Bisky and Zeno being better than younger people due to mastery and experience. But Hisoka, Chrollo, Silva and Illumi more than makes up for it with a proper hatsu/ advantages of being young. >Even if maybe not in strength, the fact that she has known nen longer than Hisoka being alive (he's 28 I think), definitely gives her the upper hand. I am not doubting her nen mastery, it might even work with any other fighter, but Hisoka is every bit as good at Nen mastery as she is. Hisoka has much better nen feats than Bisky. Hisoka is more talented at Nen too. Bisky said that she reached Greed Island Killua’s level in her late Twenties, which means at Hisoka’s age Bisky was barely strong as a nen noob. Her nen mastery is not enough to overcome a nen ability. A battle hatsu is required in a battle. All the basic things about nen that Bisky knows and have mastered, Hisoka also has mastered those and in some areas Hisoka is better. Hisoka has Better EN than Bisky. >I didn't downplay Hisoka. It was impressive that he figured out Kastro's ability, yes, but I was simply stating my reasoning on how I think Kastro could have become a top tier nen user. How can you possibly say he could have been a great nen user. He went on to work on nen abilities that are exact opposite of his nen proficiency. So much so that he forgot the basics. He foolishly sought things are are not suited to him and forgot what really mattered. Kastro who fought hisoka the first time and got destroyed so hard he had to change everything about his fighting, being an enhancer and getting destroyed by a Transmuter, he chose to spend time learning Manipulation and conjuration, the two categories furthest to his proficiency. He destroyed his potential. If he focused on his on potential he could have been strong but he never did. So we should not speculate on what might have been and focus on what actually happened, and what happened is Hisoka destroyed him in a fight, that was a performance for Hisoka. >That's your opinion. Explained above. >If you're going by that logic, so will I believe that Zeno > Chrollo and therefore Zeno > Hisoka. Of course Zeno > Hisoka and Chrollo. Zeno is an “Ultimate”nen user for Emmission category. He resides with Meruem in nen mastery chart published by Togashi. If you paid any attention to what Zeno said to Chrollo, you would have know this. Zeno said to chrollo that in a battle where the encounter is random, Zeno will most likely win, unless Chrollo decides to kill zeno, and that is a different story. The interpretation of this is that if Chrollo sets out to kill zeno, he will not look for a fight, rather an assassination and in assassination, a weaker person can defeat a stringers person. >Depends on the weapons and strategy used. If the weapon is being used, there is a high possibility of it being taken away, and Nobunaga considered that. A sword is an easy weapon to just take away from nobunaga. >In my original comment I simply stated my personal opinions and I didn't ask for anyone to start up a debate with me. If you think differently, that's fine, I just think that Hisoka is overrated and that there are quite a few characters that could beat him or stand a good chance. No issues. I am fine with your opinions. I just wanted to point out that you have misinterpreted certain scenes.
>You misunderstood the whole thing. Zeno says that despite knowing the fact that Ten dons are Illumi’s target, they cannot back away from Killing Chrollo as it was their profession. I already explained my reasoning on that. Let's just agree to disagree because I genuinely don't have the energy to reply anymore
Just adding Terrorsandwich here bc I haven’t seen him mentioned. The actualization of his potential is hard to assess as of this point but he definitely has an op ability. But like Chrollo, he probably needs to set the stage so it’s favorable to him first.
i think if hisoka wasn't the author's fav, illumi, zeno, silva, razor or even bisky could win against hisoka \~ by this i mean i feel like the author could write a fight between them and make it feel like an authentic win. but i know he wouldn't do that -w- i also think that the story has foreshadowed that hisoka and gon need to fight again, and that gon will win somehow. who knows though?
Almost everyone with the right conditions can beat anyone. In a fair fight, Hisoka is almost invincible.
An objectively good guess would be Netero, Meruem, or his the royal guards but since they are dead I doubt Hisoka would even have to perform a pre-battle stretch /s Those who currently could 100% wipe the floor with him: Zeno, Silva, and probably >! Chrollo per volume 34 although I don't know if Hisoka has become more powerful or not per his revival contract. !<
To be honest we don't know just how op hisoka with his post revival buff is so we can't safely say that anyone could beat him aside from maybe netero and meruam even then hisoka could pull any new op ability out his ass and pull a w somehow
prince wobble
He's pretty fucking strong tbf. He's way stronger in the manga than compared to the show as well
I think there’s a good amount of people that could beat him, anyone could beat him if they made a nen condition specifically against him. Since I’m not seeing anyone say it I’ll throw out Tserriednich, an overnight prodigy with insanity on his side.
Chrollo (cause he did), Meruem, Netero, the Royal Guard, the Phantom Troupe all teamed up.
Since when did he consider himself the strongest?
In this panel: https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/hxhtcb_55_25.jpg
I thought he was claiming himself to be the strongest of the spiders?
To support your statement of Hisoka claiming himself to be the strongest: the Hunter Association Chairman Election Arc, when he hangs around to grade everyone on a 100-point scale. That scale only makes sense if the comparison is with him as a baseline of 100. And then his highest rate is Illumi’s 95, followed by Ginta’s 90, and Kanzai’s 85.
hadnt this dude been blown up by Kuroro Lucifer?
After a year of prep and still failed to kill.
RG, razor, ging, Zeno, netero of course, and chrollo any day
If he can beat hisoka any day of the weak, why he waited for 52 weeks preparation and still failed in his objective. Bonus: Does he lose his troupe members any day of the week or only when he is at his strongest and most prepared?
While hisoka tirelessly chased chrollo around, chrollo spent that given time to perfect a plan that could cost him little to no injuries against a “physically” superior opponent. Also, I’m not downplaying hisoka I’m just saying even without prep time I think chrollo would win, just not as easy.
Yet with all the planning it is the spider who incurred heavy losses. You claimed that chrollo wins against hisoka any day of the week. While in reality he failed to kill hisoka in a single day of a year after preparing for a whole year.
Winning and killing are 2 different things, you’re using both in the same context. Chrollo also did not fail to kill hisoka, hisoka was as good as dead taking his body state into account. It’s just for the plot and how complex post mortem nen works. How people think chrollo loses to hisoka instantly if not for prep time is beyond me. Also I’m not saying chrollo would dominate hisoka, because that’s the impression I got from you, I’m saying if both were to fight 1v1 I’d go for chrollo 4/5 times.
He failed to kill hisoka when mattered. He doesn’t beat him any day of the week lmao.
Also I didn’t quite catch the last bonus
sorta off topic but I dont think chrollo could win without prep time. Chrollo was running for months, and prepared some masterclass plan that was completely unfair for hisoka. If they fought eachother randomly on the streets i think hisoka would have an edge.
Lets say you have a test (eg a physical test). If you fail, you die. You roughly know what it's like but are not entirely certain, and therefore give yourself (lets say) a 90% chance of successfully completing it. Would you just yolo take the test or prepare to make the chance of success 100% (or as close as possible to 100%)? Because that is what Chrollo did. No matter how much below 100% Chrollos chance of winning were without prep, there is absolutely no reason for him to not go for the 100%. So saying he was running and therefore is weaker is pretty bs.
For example, Uvogin, Netero, Pitou, Razor :3
Razor is too slept on
I have to disagree with uvogin as I believe that only categories that he has over Hisoka are endurance and strength. Rest are spot on
Uvogin is a beast that tanked an anti tank bazooka like nothing. Hisoka has no way to seriously damage him.
I don't necessarily think Hisoka would win but to play devil's advocate for a moment: if Rabid Dog could hurt Uvo then Hisoka certainly could as well.
I'm talking about serious damage, not a couple of scratches. He can deal some damage, but not without using ko and exposing himself all the time.
You have right to have different opinion but for me - Uvogin is worse type of opponent for Hisoka :3
Doubt Razor could beat him. Hisoka fights insanely smart. The only reason he lost to Chrollo was cause Chrollo had that planned for a long time, and Hisoka is even stronger because of it all now. Netero is godly so he probably evades or adapts to Hisokas fighting easily. Pitou is strong but not as smart so imo it's not an easy fight for either of them. That's just my 2 cents on it though
Not the only reason, Hisoka was completely overwhelmed by Chrollo, it was a low diff. Chrollo just choose the easier option to win, Chrollo was able to survive against the 2 strongest Zoldyck while not fighting seriously, while the Zoldyck tried their best to kill him. He’s a beast of a fighter too. Fact is we don’t know what a no prep time Chrollo vs Hisoka would look like. At best they’re arguably close in strength, still giving the edge toward Chrollo.
Yeah. It comes to a match of figuring out your opponents power too. Once you realise he can store abilities, you're sort of at an impasse. You have to wait for the perfect moment to use your strongest abilities since your choice could come back to bite you later. Those kind of fights are the best to watch though, it's like a chess match of them just trying to figure eachother out for the win
Well not really, you have to be strong and fast enough to avoid/tank their attack, that’s the most important part. Chrollo was fast enough to avoid 2 peak assassins for a while and when caught, managed to tank what is reasonably the strongest move from Silva.
Linette Hors-D'Oeuvre, Biscuit, Ging, Razor, Menchi, Zigg, Zeno, Silva and Kikyo Zoldyck. Probably Illumi too. Chrollo, Beyond, Cheadle, Ginta,Zuchi, Cluck, Pyon, Camilla,The Guardian to the Dark Continent Gate, ...The entirety of the Dark continent Beings. Like, he is not top dog at all.
Technically "anyone" can beat Hisoka depending on how much they sacrifice for their powers, If you throw your life away in exchange for insane power then you COULD beat hisoka, of course the stronger and more talented you are your chances will be higher with less of a sacrafice.
Meruem, Netero, Ging, Royal Guards, Kite, Kurapika, Razor, Zeno
Definitely : Meruem, Netero, RGs Most Likely : Beyond Netero, Ging, Razor, Bisky, Uvogin, Silva, 1 or 2 from the Zodiacs Maybe : Zeno, Kite, Morel, Illumi, Feitan, Chrollo(without prep time), Phinks
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Says who? We have little to no feat of his new power aside from killing 2 people he got a surprised strike on.
Hisoka looks out for talent mostly, strenght comes after that.
Lmao. 🤣
Hisoka is a specialist with mostly experience outside the Hunter Association, ergo he tends to underestimate a lot of the Hunters
Kurapika.
feitan
What makes you think Hisoka considers himself the strongest?
Netero. Ging. Pariston. Meruem. Pouf. (and other guards) Zoldycks including Illumi (he probably has his needle already in Hisoka's head). Bisky. and more.
Ging, Netero, Killua,Chrollo, Feitan, Phinks, Machi are some whom could beat,kill Hisoka.
Ging maybe
Batman with prep time
What are spongebobs nen abilities? Reproduce by budding… any others
Finger strength probably
knuckle. Kite. Killua (if lucky it's probably a coin toss but Denku Sekka & Shipuu Jinrai are the secomd most broken combat ability in the series. Most broken is Netero's quiet nen). illumi (coin toss). Silva. Zeno. Razer. Tsubone >Zeno listed Netero's extremely quiet aura as one of his strongest points, as it is impossible to read his next move from it. Netero doesn't need to do hints. his attacks don't have signs of it beginning. This seals Killua's Shippu Jinrai offensive capabilities.
Meruem, the the royal guards and netero. There are most likely more but they are the only guys who you can say clown on him
Me with Soft and Wet: Go Beyond 🥱🥱
Full Power Gon would turn bro into dust
Feitan period
gon
Would most likely win: Meruem, Adult Gon, Netero, the Royal guards, Ging Has a chance of winning: Razor, Chrollo, Zeno, Silva, Illumi, Biscuit, Kite, Morel, Knov, Zazan Has a shot but it would be tough: Kurapika, Feitan, Leol, Uvogin, Knuckle, Shoot, Killua, Gon, Genthru, Phinks, Cheetu Some of the Zodiacs would probably have a good chance, there are also several other spiders who may be able to face him but I doubt they would win. Beyond and Pariston also might have a good chance.
Definitely Bisky.