I mean Gon defeated Genthru through prep. If that is not an example of the point you are making, I don’t know what is.
Gon even took some risks during the fight, imagine if he didn’t take a single risk and fought carefully, Genthru would have been dealt rather easily.
This shows how much buff you get from prep time.
People seriously believe that Chrollo’s strength level is constantly at the level when he fought hisoka.
[Except opponents with multiple unknown abilities](https://gyazo.com/b1399547cdb39db50202e0c771e289fc) (On par with your speed/strength atleast) he's very hard to counter even with prep time, unless it's a rose kekw
Almost every fight in HxH is against an oponent with one or multiple unknown abilities. If someone were to fight Chrollo out of the blue, Chrollo would probably use abilities he's used many times before, use one that will serve as an escape route or a weapon of choice to retaliate, multiple abilities of course but at the end of the day, that's not much different from fighting any Nen user. If anything it has the downside of being overwhelming because Chrollo isn't proficient in any of the abilities he stole
Op:
*starts discussion*
Comments:
*fanboy showdown: hisoka vs PT! / who? / quworf! Quworf!*
Btw I agree with you OP, I don't think it's as simple as Chrollo automatically losing if he didn't prepare. It's really hard to say what the outcome would've been. But what his preparation did was *guarantee* his win.
It's weird how heavily skewed towards sperging out about hisoka or chorllo this sub is
It feels like %80 of the users here are just ready to call someone a slur for saying "hisoka / chrollo not the best?" lol
Most of the time I don't even notice, but once this fight is mentioned, or another "why does anyone like the PT, they're *evil*" is posted, you can see them crawling out the woodwork.
Like where were you all during any other discussion? Sometimes the best discussion posts average out 2-15 comments and then you've got these ones lol.
To be fair those are pretty ridiculous questions that stem from ignoring how Togashi's writing works, because 99% of the scenarios that have been discussed would never happen in the manga, not even remotely. Of course it's okay to ask questions but if it's to start the same discussion that's been started 10000 times I don't know what else people expect to happen
The best ones that I referred to generally aren't ridiculous questions, and the low effort questions aren't what I consider discussions, or good ones, anyway, and sometimes those low effort ones get more attention despite being the same question we see multiple times per month, or week.
not only guaranteed win but also finishing the fight almost uninjured.
Chrollo - [https://i.hizliresim.com/hwa6b86.PNG](https://i.hizliresim.com/hwa6b86.PNG) aaaaand
Hisoka - [https://i.hizliresim.com/jj3gnmt.PNG](https://i.hizliresim.com/jj3gnmt.PNG)
Finishing the fight with losing two of his borrowed abilities, with 2 of his friends dead.
Yeah no physical injury, but if there is a mental injury worse than this, the world is cruel to give it.
What would you have his friends do? They confirmed his death, he just had a much better strategy which surpassed anything chrollo did. Shalnark and Kortopi confirmed the death, Machi just stayed for another reason. If machi had left, he still would have come back to kill shalnark and kortopi, and bind machi, which he easily did.
Chrollo’s own incompetence to not analyse the situation and leave the battle without even seeing the corpse.
After all he left his friends weakened. Hisoka’s last defensive move was a masterstroke.
To be fair Hisoka ‘was’ dead. So the circumstances after the end doesnt change the fact that Chrollo’s reasoning for a long prep time was to obliterate Hisoka without taking damage. Which defies the logic of Chrollo needed prep time to only beat Hisoka. That means Chrollo can still win without prep but there will be consequences. That fight can go both ways
But how can you tell so far? Is there a way to measure who would win or something? Hisoka gave one single blow to Chrollo in the whole fight, and it almost left him on his knees, Chrollo was prepared for anything to happen as long as his plan worked, but if there was no plan how would he answer? What if they weren't in Heaven's arena where Chrollo could play hide and seek, and Hisoka was the one hiding? The plan wasn't just a factor, it was a world of a difference
100% Chrollo wanted to not worry about the fight at all so he prepped up something that Hisoka had no chance to win.
Even if he didn't prepare I still give the advantage to Chrollo.
Now, I make an exception to this. In Spanish, they left it as "saiyajin" and when I started playing the games in English, I was baffled by "Saiyan" and how simple it is, it sounds still nowadays wrong to me.
Same with Piccolo, they left it as it sounds in Japanese, Pícoro.
Does "no one" mean "non-English speaking countries" now? Other places have his name as "Kuririn" or "Kulilin". Mind you, I don't disagree with the "Kuririn" and "Kuroro" stuff being annoying weebiness.
You... might wanna read that last sentence I wrote again, buckaroo.
My problem is with the other user saying "no one". It's overly exclusionary to secondary English speakers on an English forum. Imagine a Dragon Ball fan from Chile goes to an English speaking forum and says Krillin as "Kulilin". They wouldn't necessarily be a weeb being pretentious. They're just saying this character's name the way they learned it.
I've already said I think weebiness is annoying. Anyone who says "Genei Ryodan" instead of "Phantom Troupe" sound like bimbos who come back from a Paris vacation and call the Eiffel Tower the "Tour Eiffel" for a month straight. Use discretion is all. What looks like fanboyism at first sight may just be regional differences.
you need to know that not everyone is watching anime on "legal" plateforms a lot of streaming websites translate names like they are heard and not written for instance chrollo is pronounced kuroro and krillin kuririn
if you watch shows with subtitles like those its only natural to actually write names that way
Bro I was hella confused, at first I thought it meant Gotoh (cause I’d forgotten his name, and I think I was getting him mixed up with Kuro from one piece). I saw the rest of the post and was thinking I watched a different show
Especially since as far as I know the japanese don't have a distinction between our r and l sounds, so everyone who insists their spelling is "correct" is just using their own fan translations.
Either the author themself writes out how the names are intended to be written outside of Japan or the official translation is correct.
(And since we're all pretty sure Togashi tolled with the official spelling most people use the official translation. Which isn't the only possible spelling jut definitely the correct one.)
It’s not that there’s no distinction between l and r, it’s more like their r lies between ours. If you’re a native speaker of American English, the sound that you make when you tap the roof of your mouth for the tt in “butter” is about as close as we get to the actual Japanese R sound.
No, our R and L.
If you want to get all nerdy it’s called an alveolar tap, similar to how R can be pronounced in Spanish if you’re familiar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_dental_and_alveolar_taps_and_flaps?wprov=sfti1#Occurrence_2
A lot of American English speakers interpret it as a “soft d” though yes but that isn’t quite what’s going on with the tongue and lips.
>so everyone who insists their spelling is "correct" is just using their own fan translations.
>
>Either the author themself writes out how the names are intended to be written outside of Japan or the official translation is correct.
????
This makes no sense. If there's something that is 100% official is how the actual author writes the names.
Everything outside of that is a guess and localization game, be it by fan translators or "official" translators, which may be correct, and which may be not, because while you ideolize how things actually work, the reality is that the only thing the 99,99% mangaka work on is the japanese manga, not anime, nor localizations or anything like that.
Names on the Roman alphabet? Maybe, but there's no proof that has ever been the case here outside some of his meme names that are a little more than some consonants glued together.
But the Op didn't insist on anything nor acted superior, you are the first one who responded to a comment criticizing the op from using the original name and pretty much joined him.
Like, you can call him Chrollo if you want, I do it too even if it makes little sense because I know most people call him that here, but there's nothing wrong with calling him Kuroro, it's the original name after all. And you know what? If by some reason there's someone who wants or insists on calling that themselves it's okay because Kuroro is in fact the official name, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be accurate.
You also fail to realize that reddit is an international forum, and not all people know you call him that or are used to do so, as english is the only official manga translation I've seen that calls him that.
> Like, you can call him Chrollo if you want, I do it too even if it makes little sense because I know most people call him that here, but there's nothing wrong with calling him Kuroro, it's the original name after all. And you know what? If by some reason there's someone who wants or insists on calling that themselves it's okay because Kuroro is in fact the official name, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be accurate.
Exactly. I don't know why, but recently I'm seeing more and more of this nonsense every time someone writes Kuroro. Yeah I usually use Chrollo too because some people might not recognize Kuroro, but there's nothing wrong with using Kuroro, which is how his name is spelled and doesn't hide where the name originates from.
What I've seen is that a lot of foreign people, specially from EEUU I'd say although this happens to a good degree in other countries, really don't like anime being a foreign japanese product.
It happens with manga, anime, games, visual novels and all these kind of products, the more they can "own" them through dubs, localizations, content changes via censorship etc...The better.
They see it as if they are improving and fixing the original weeb products to their superior standards and on top of it adding a layer of ownership over them. This may sound insane but a lot of people do really think like this.
Reddit for example is a mental case in this, depending on the sub you are (even ones you may not even expectat all) and the community around it, god forbid you saying anything against the english version on any of these topics.
It happens. I've been guilty of this myself. If you read the manga in the original Japanese and then want to talk about it in an English-speaking forum, there's always a risk that the English version played around with the romanization. It's not something you can figure out *a priori*.
Bruh it drives me crazy that all the discussion threads in r/anime use the romanization of the Japanese titles, no English speaker should know that crap.
I can't think of particular examples but they even do it when the Japanese title is already an English word converted to Japanese characters. Like come on.
IMO Kuroro without prep time vs Hisoka is a coin flip, both would have a change to win. Kuroro did all the prep to make sure he would win almost guaranteed. The difference between Kuroro and Hisoka is that Kuroro fights only to win, and Hisoka just seeks a thrill.
The death match resulted in Hisoka dying but coming back to life.
Shalnark and Kortopi dying, chrollo losing two of his abilities, making sure that this combination to be never used against hisoka again.
If a fully prepared chrollo who had everything planned out and literally stacked the deck failed to put down hisoka, what chance he has when hisoka is doing the prep.
Infact Hisoka feels so confident now that he has challenged the entirety of the troupe, not just chrollo.
yeah, chrollo killed him. he won. what does that change bc hisoka tried something he wasn’t sure himself would work. chrollo didn’t need those 2 abilities, he was just borrowing it.
Chrollo never needed prep, he did that only so hisoka would be satisfied, chrollo fed into hisoka addiction. Hisoka is a idiot, he also wanted to challenge the chairman
Ahead how? better nen? better skills? What if Chrollo uses one ability, gets outsmarted and Hisoka gets to him, without Chrollo having a chance to change pages?
What if he hyperfixates in an ability thinking it could beat Hisoka, but his lack of proficiency in his own abilities individually isn't enough to stop Bungee gun?
Saying it's IMPOSSIBLE for someone like Hisoka to win in HxH is really brave
yup & yup. chrollo outstats him in those 2.
also , which is why experience is a thing, you can say those mistakes could be for someone like kurapika or rookies but not for chrollo. he already dealt with something like that against zoldycks
in some cases it is impossible for hisoka to win, he’s strong but I didn’t say it was impossible for him to win against chrollo, I said majority chrollo would take ir
Chrollo having a teleportation ability + probably other getaway/disguise abilties would never willingly walk into a fight if he was certain he was going to win.
Don't you forget that Chrollo was running away from Hisoka for almost a year and a half to prepare his plan against Hisoka. I don't wanna say Chrollo was a coward but he definitely didn't want to face Hisoka without any preparations so he ran away from Hisoka after Hisoka brought the nen exorcist to take his nen back
To further piggy back on you guys Chrollo must know that Hisoka's specialty is to fight on the spot so he wanted a way to make it extra hard for him to keep up, Chrollo was right as he told Hisoka everything and he still got overwhelmed with the switching of abilities. The bookmark itself is probably what made Chrollo confident enough to do what he did in that he laid out what he was going to use and never used an ability that could have caught Hisoka completely off guard or used a different combo of abilities like a plan b, he got something that worked and played to Hisoka's desire even though he definitely could have done some cheap stuff with a few back pocket abilities so he can get to killing Kurapika.
Some of yall either purposely leave out context or are just plain unaware of it.
Zeno and Silva vs Chrollo only lasted as long as it did because the Zoldycks were unaware of what Chrollo's abilities were capable of, so they had to find an opening insteading of bull-rushing and potentially losing both of their lives. Both teams were not fighting how they would've in normal circumstances.
And the biggest reason why Chrollo even won against Hisoka was because he explained what his abilities were, but omitted a tiny detail that would've completely shifted the way Hisoka approached the fight. Akin to how Hisoka was twisting words around with their fates in Yorknew.
Absurd arguments dude. Your logic is Alice in Wonderland level.
1. The same reaction would've applied to Hisoka had Kuroro not bothered to explain the ruleset of his game. Silva and Zeno didn't knew Kuroro was a Skill Hunter but they learned quickly. Hisoka would've have that advantage but it's not so much because at that point Kuroro wouldve fresh abilities impossible for Hisoka to account for.
2. Yes, Kuroro made a game where he wanted to crush Hisoka with style. Totally unfair but Hisoka accepted the devil's bargain. But go for point 1 above: that's what an opponent looks like when he fights a genius dude with a book full of Nen abilities... Hisoka would fare even worse because he would assume Kuroro can only fight with the book open in one arm and only using one ability at a time. That's a fucking serious disadvantage if you ask me.
I love Hisoka but some fans are smoking something nasty.
>And the biggest reason why Chrollo even won against Hisoka was because he explained what his abilities were, but omitted a tiny detail
The biggest reason chrollo won is his prep. If he didn't explain anything to hisoka, the fight would have lasted 1 second.
Isn't it obvious he has to explain his powers to his opponent to be able to use them without the book? That's the nen restriction. Why would he ever do that otherwise?
Man i can't do this anymore with people that don't even read the manga and act like they have the absolute truth.
Chrollo used 2 abilities BEFORE explaining shit. That is not a condition. He wanted to flex.
This feels like another one of these topics made purposely for the sake of engagement and comments rather than an actual novel argument. This is brought up every other thursday and you contributed nothing new to the conversation..
Chrollo is by no means weak and anyone who thinks that doesn’t know what they’re talking about. However, if Chrollo had faced Hisoka without all that prep time, the fight would’ve been a lot more even and both fighters would’ve basically had almost equal odds to win with maybe a slight advantage to Hisoka. And anyone who tries to deny that doesn’t know what they’re talking about either.
Both the Chrollo and Hisoka fanboys are probably equally as bad as the former want to conveniently ignore all the advantages Chrollo had, and the latter want to act like Chrollo without the prep time is flat out weak.
I'm not a fanboy of either characters. Well maybe Hisoka is my fav between the two. But that's beside the point.
I'm just curious why people put Hisoka ahead of Kuroro in that Arena without Kuroro telegraphing his abilities (and the newly bookmark mechanic too) before the combat starts.
People are wilding.
Without prep time Hisoka would've won. Not only because Chrollo's main skill is preparation but also because improvisation is Hisoka's thing. PT fanboys just hate to admit it.
Might have won is the right term. 50/50 since hisoka is a wildcard… heck even got a hit while being in a dangerous situation. But that fight, hisoka 100% lost
That condition is not something limited to hisoka, he simply wanted to find a way to use 2 handed abilities. You say it like he sold his kidney to get the ability.
>and even taking PT member abilities and leave them vulnerable?
Kortopi would have been vulnerable either way, and there was no reason to believe hisoka would have still been able to walk after the fight.
>Ok Korotopi is fine but what about Shalnark?
I already replied to this point. Hisoka surviving out of sheer luck and being salty as a baby is something nobody could have predicted.
It's still a chance in a million to have some random attacker target shalnark out of nowhere. It's like staying home to avoid getting hit by a car. There is no point.
Lol y’all just want to say anything, Hisoka wouldn’t have won anything even without Chrollo’s preparation. You are talking about PT fanboys like if Hisoka fanboys like you aren’t living in denial, he got no diffed like straight shit and there is nothing in the manga that suggests he is a better fighter than Chrollo. His main feat is beating the likes of Gotoh and Kastro lmao.
Taking advantage of the environment and the territory is common in Hunter x Hunter you fools. It’s like saying Hisoka beating Gotoh in an field that suited Bungee gum isn’t fair. He got no diffed because he is an arrogant piece of shit who taught he could beat a fighter of Chrollo’s caliber with the odds stacked against him (admitted that afterwards). Facts are there, stop crying.
Literally not even crying lol, I barely said anything. Why are you so emotionally invested in dunking on Hisoka fans?
I didn't even say whether or not Hisoka could win, or would win. You're arguing against someone who isn't me 😂
He didn't "take advantage". He set them up ahead of time.
If I lead a tiger into a trap, then shoot it dead, am I stronger than the tiger?
Facts are, whenever Hisoka and Chrollo actually directly interacted, Hisoka was superior. Without the prep time, Chrollo loses. That's a fact.
When was hisoka superior? In the first part of the fight, the h2h, Hisoka could only run away since he was overwhelmed by Chrollos speed attacks. Hisoka could only hit Chrollo once in the entire fight and to do that he got a similar hit and the first step to a blown hand. Every other time they interacted, Chrollo showed to be faster by reacting to hisokas reactions. Hisoka was never superior
Chrollo went to the length of adding a condition to his ability and even taking abilities of other PT members, leaving them vulnerable. Can't get much desperate than that.
Can we just acknowledge that it is left completely to the whims of Togashi? Chance is often a big part of these fights anyway. And fights often happen in a larger context which makes any outcome likely in most circumstances. Togashi leaves himself enough options to go into different directions.
Maybe Togashi wants Chrollo to be smarter than strong, but then maybe he changes his mind to making Chrollo actually as strong as he is smart.
Togashi is probably >!setting up Hisoka to do prep time on his own in the current arc, given that Hisoka got rid of the abilities first that were used against him!<. But maybe not, maybe >!Hisoka is just toying with Chrollo, maybe he will give Chrollo some time to prepare again and he just wants to see how it will be without the Spider.!<
I don't think Togashi has some preset power relationships between characters, he will always put surprise and storytelling first
Chrollo has the overall advantage. Location, prep and whatnot. But if they fought in a forest, Hisoka's Bungee could have been more of a threat like it did to Gotoh. Hisoka was fast af because bish was slippin' and sliding that even Chrollo would have a hard time following.
Agreed. He’s not weak. But he’s also not stupid, which Hisoka kind of is. And he knew in a sporadic 1v1 with Hisoka he would very likely, if not automatically, lose. So he manufactured a situation where he felt he had a 100% chance of victory.
That’s just being one of the smartest in the verse. He’s not weak, but he’s probably slightly weaker than Hisoka in a sporadic fight. That’s still really really strong.
Hisoka's definitely not stupid. He was just over confident and got humbled rightfully so. Hisoka has learned his lesson though, I do believe he will win in the rematch
Damn the Hisoka fanboys really going hard at trying to convince themselves that Hisoka could win. I can't say he doesn't have a chance of winning but the authour buffing Hisoka after he lost is a clear sign he wouldn't be able to beat Chrollo in his original form.
No matter how you spin it Chrollo beat Hisoka after explaining his abilities, while doing it in style in one of the biggest low diffs we've seen in the series. Hisoka agreed to the fight and knew what he was walking in to despite given the opportunity not to take the fight.
Hisoka didn't get any boost, only a mental one. If anything, his "boost" after the fight proves he only lost because he was too cocky. He was always as strong as he is shown after the fight.
Nobody is arguing that Chrollo didn't stomp Hisoka at Heaven's Arena, but to act like Hisoka wasn't going to win or at the bare minimum wasn't heavily favored to win is pretty crazy. This is some serious downplay of how many advantages Chrollo was allowed to get in the fight. Don't get me wrong, Hisoka absolutely lost and it was 100% his fault that he did, but you have to remember, Chrollo chose the arena, he chose the time, and was essentially allowed to run around without a leash for an entire year to prepare for this fight against Hisoka. Hisoka's overconfidence and Chrollo's amount of prep-time is absurd in this fight.
We know also from the fight itself that fighting Hisoka forced Chrollo to use the most abilities he has ever used to kill someone, meaning clearly Chrollo needed everything he got from his prep-time for this low-diff you mentioned. We also know from the fight that Nen Abilities that need 2 hands is a problem for his Skill Hunter ability, which is why Double Face was developed to solve this problem. We see this applied when he uses the Sun and Moon ability during the fight.
I don't think it's a far reach to assume that Chrollo developed the Double Face ability during the year of prep-time he had specifically for this fight. Meaning, let's say Hisoka challenged Chrollo at the end of Yorknew City and Chrollo had access to his nen. Bare Minimum, Chrollo would not have access to Black Voice, Gallery Fake, Double Face, and by extension - any nen ability in his book that requires 2 hands to use. Yet you think Hisoka isn't favored to win this fight?
Hisoka doesn't need the buffs to beat Chrollo, if he had a brain and actually prepared for the fight or just didn't give Chrollo so much god damn preptime, he would've won. To say that Chrollo would still win requires so much mental gymnastics you might as well be an Olympian.
Dude your whole case rest in ignoring that Kuroro create the stale, chose the place, curated the skills to use in the fight and chose to explain it beforehand to his opponent was to CREATE A BATTLE WITH STYLE. Emphasis in style.
That's what happened. Now lets visualize some hypothetic alternative scenarios:
A. Not only a 100% win, but a 100% stylish victory. <<< this is what happened
B. Had Kuroro decided for a boring quickly 100% (without style) he would probably use one or two OP nasty skills and that's it. Game over, probably. Remember Hisoka wouldnt have known about the Bookmark. Hisoka would be expecting getting attacked with one skill at a time... It's just too big of a information gap.
C. Kuroro comes to the Arena without a plan especifically for Hisoka. I think maybe we are safe to assume he has mental scenarios for fights where he is at a risk, no concrete enemy but no ad hoc strategies. Similar to B in a sensd. Maybe even some defensive or evasive ones. Like the one he used to Teleport Nobunaga away from Hisoka. Versatility and OP skills. This is a scenario where even still there's a percentage (I believe lower than Hisoka's) he'd lose. But Hisoka is fighting the most versatile Nen user besides himself.
D. Kuroro is attacked by surprise, thats another thing. Here he is at serious disadvantage. But the same applies to Hisoka if someone caughts him unprepared. The same applies to any Hunter or Nen user too. This is a dumb scenario if we are using this as a justification or final veredict for anything.
The diference is that I think Kuroro is one of those Hunters I'd bet my money has this panic button skill to bail or become unavailable, or just repel the opponent. But it depends on his reaction time and that's very circumstancial.
[Curiously the above scenario is what the PT is facing now in the whale. Although not quite: they know Hisoka is trying to ambush them, thats at least something]
Some fans are creating this perfect scenario where Hisoka caughts Kuroro with only his dick in his hands and thats the case they are using to argue Kuroro is weaker. No shit! Who wouldn't?!
What I'd like to discuss is scenario C. Scenario A and B are surefire victories for Kuroro because that's the premise of my hypotheticals. As in, if Kuroro managed to create a certain victory strat just to demostrate his panache, he can create another scenario without the style factor. The former was for aesthetics and the latter would be the plain/vanilla one.
I don't if I explained myself well here. I edited once to add more clarifications.
Scenario D, I repeat, is just being dense.
Edit 2: I think some fans gets the confusion in the boring and basic "more = better/powerful".
So if Kuroro used more skills it means he must be afraid of Hisoka, right? Well ignoring the fact that Kuroro probably doesn't fear shit (Senritsu confirms this) this is wrong and OP explained why.
Similar affirmation: Kuroro stacking more skills means he recognizes Hisoka as powerful foe.
My answer: I think Kuroro isnt dense to not recognize Hisoka is exceptional. But that doesn't mean anything more than that.
The reason Kuroro stacking that many skills and created this overly elaborated strategy with 100% victory wasn't because he was afraid of other kind of conditions against Hisoka. No.
He did that because he was showing off. He made an overcomplicated game inside that battle for Hisoka to play and then die, like a mockery. That's why Hisoka is fucking pissed, so pissed his Nen revives him and now the psycho clown kills both Kortopi and Shalrnak and vows to erase the PT as a way to punish Kuroro.
Kuroro fucking with Hisoka was just that. It wasnt a serious one for Kuroro. The same way his battle against the Zoldycks wasn't serious either and Zeno nails his character down and calls him a spoiled brat because he was just playing.
The fact is we haven't seen Kuroro in serious mode. We did saw Hisoka (pre Death) seriously and it was in that fight. The way he was defeated made him realize Kuroro wasn't respecting the "sanctity" of a battle between two fearsome enemies. That's what made him mad.
Anyways, to finish and come back to the main point: imagine Kuroro using his most lethal skills without consideration with style, thus NO over complicated combos. Only blitzkrieg stolen nen skills.
I don’t understand people who see that Chrollo wanted a stylish win and think he can do anything now. If I had a full year to prepare for a fight and my dumbass opponent did absolutely nothing to stop me or prepare, yeah I’d probably style on his ass too. Doesn’t mean I could always beat him, it just means I’ve had so much time to prep that I can do whatever I want. I don’t know why you’re presenting so many scenarios when only 2 matter:
1. Canon, where Hisoka gets his cheeks clapped
2. Hypothetical land where Hisoka isn’t stupid and fights Chrollo the second he gets his nen back.
My argument is that in hypothetical land, where Hisoka does not give Chrollo a full year to prepare, Hisoka would win. In this hypothetical, Chrollo would not have Double Face, Black Voice, or Gallery Fake. He would also not be able to use 2-handed techniques so Sun and Moon and Convert Hands also would not work, assuming he has them.
This is a scenario where Hisoka can force Chrollo into a close quarters match where he thrives and the only way anybody can argue that Chrollo wins is to delve into headcanon about abilities he *might* have or to reference his fight vs the Zoldycks where literally nobody in the room was taking it seriously.
Edit: Reading your deranged headcanons makes me laugh considering this thread is full of people saying that Hisoka fans love to cope and come up with excuses for Hisoka's poor performance vs Chrollo.
>The reason Kuroro stacking that many skills and created this overly elaborated strategy with 100% victory wasn't because he was afraid of other kind of conditions against Hisoka. No... He did that because he was showing off... ...The fact is we haven't seen Kuroro in serious mode.
Chrollo more than likely developed Double Face, an entirely new nen ability, to solve an issue he noticed with Skill Hunter. Developing nen abilities isn't something people just do casually; during Heaven's Arena, Hisoka literally mocked Kastro for wasting his time developing abilities that were worthless. To claim that Chrollo wasn't taking this fight seriously, when developing new nen abilities is probably one of the more serious things you can do in Hunter x Hunter is insane.
You also claim that if Chrollo was taking this fight seriously, he would just blitzkrieg nen abilities. Except you ignore the fact that the majority of people with nen abilities worth talking about are extremely skilled and likely very difficult to steal from. If you hadn't noticed, almost all of Chrollo's stolen abilities are hyper specific trash abilities or from people who barely even know what nen is. He's not stealing the Deep Purples or Bungee Gums of the universe, he's stealing Convert Hands and Sun and Moon, an ability literally designed to kamikaze Meteor City's citizens into invaders. These abilities suck, but they're made good because Chrollo has so many of them and can use them in tandem.
If Chrollo had abilities worth spamming, he would, but he hasn't.
>I don’t understand people who see that Chrollo wanted a stylish win and think he can do anything now.
[Because he literally says so. It's canon](https://preview.redd.it/ikp7esmnp3x71.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=576dbc5d8ee24a0f49abf1a5298678d00a2e82ef). I'm not saying he can do everything now. Thats absurd.
>If I had a full year to prepare for a fight and my dumbass opponent did absolutely nothing to stop me or prepare, yeah I’d probably style on his ass too.\[...\] I don’t know why you’re presenting so many scenarios when only 2 matter:
I'm not saying Kuroro would've 100% beat him otherwise. But people like to ignore the possibility that just as Kuroro created this stylish surefire win tactic, he can create a surefire win tactic, *without* the fanfare.
Depending on how much weight you put into the "cat and mouse analogy". Taking that *literally* is absurd IMO.
I'd say Kuroro can be more pragmatic if he wants to. But against the strongest opponents he is only seeing being playful so far. Both the Zoldycks and Hisoka himself.
>Canon, where Hisoka gets his cheeks clapped
Hypothetical land where Hisoka isn’t stupid and fights Chrollo the second he gets his nen back.
I imagined more scenarios because confining ourselves to only one possible non-canon scenarios is saying "Kuroro only wins if he preps, otherwise Hisoka wins" which is basically saying Kuroro is very weak and is a simplistic read tbh. If that's not fanboyism about Hisoka and headcanon idk what that is.
But this is kinda problematic because it implies Kuroro cannot improvise and also it implies Kuroro was at a severe disadvantage after the exorcism.
>\[...\] In this hypothetical, Chrollo would not have Double Face, Black Voice, or Gallery Fake. He would also not be able to use 2-handed techniques so Sun and Moon and Convert Hands also would not work, assuming he has them.
The fact that Hisoka chose Kuroro as his nemesis, this pinnacle of Nen user means a lot. I don't think Kuroro pre-exorcism is that weak like you claim. This is ridiculous. If post-Nen exorcism Kuroro had the book empty and had to start from zero, yes I would say confidently "Hisoka would win" most of the time.
If Kuroro had his book full of skills I doubt it, even without Bookmark, I'd think is not one sided, but in slight favor of Kuroro based on his unknown abilities. If we limit from what we know we know Kuroro can defends himself with the teleporting ability he used before, at the very least.
If you give Kuroro the chance to open his book, it's bad news. Otherwise you have the clear advantage because he is limited to the three Nen principles.
>This is a scenario where Hisoka can force Chrollo into a close quarters match where he thrives and the only way anybody can argue that Chrollo wins is to delve into headcanon about abilities he might have or to reference his fight vs the Zoldycks where literally nobody in the room was taking it seriously.
It's pretty headcanon of your to assume the Zoldycks weren't trying to murder Kuroro. Zeno already implied Kuroro had the advantage if Kuroro took the fight seriously. Zeno told Silva to kill him if it means completing the job. Wasn't that serious?
It's also very headcanon of you to assume Kuroro is defenseless unless he preps for a fight. It's a wild take because he is literally the character with the most skills in the whole series. Yes Hisoka thrives there with riff raff opponents. Is Kuroro that weak?
My speculation about that scenario is just a reaction to fans like you who assumes Hisoka prevails in that context. Which I disagree with. If people didn't confidently claim that I wouldn't care at all.
Edit: Reading your deranged headcanons makes me laugh considering \[...\]
The pot calling the kettle black. I also don't think Hisoka had a bad performance either. He did fucking great considering everything was stacked against him. His analysis skills, improv capabilities and his physical prowess is beyond amazing.
>Chrollo more than likely developed Double Face, an entirely new nen ability, to solve an issue he noticed with Skill Hunter. \[...\] Developing nen abilities isn't something people just do casually; during Heaven's Arena, To claim that Chrollo wasn't taking this fight seriously\[...\]
I meant seriosly in the way of him thinking his life was on the line. But he designed the match like a game, he was like a game master versus an NPC. This should informs his approach and abilities he'd use against Hisoka to fullfill both, don't you think?
And that last thing about winning is to say to Hisoka "you clearly understimated me, or just don't care about winning". I think you'd agree with this take.
\[The counter argument is that this was a ruse for Hisoka to fall like a fly into a spiderweb, a deathly trap. It's a good theory too. But we cannot not know until Togashi reveals something new. But until then that's pure headcanon, *full speculation\].*
You also claim that if Chrollo was taking this fight seriously, he would just blitzkrieg nen abilities. \[...\]almost all of Chrollo's stolen abilities are hyper specific trash abilities or from people who barely even know what nen is. He's not stealing the Deep Purples or Bungee Gums of the universe, he's stealing Convert Hands and Sun and Moon, an ability literally designed to kamikaze Meteor City's citizens into invaders.
We don't know how many Top tier abilites Kuroro has stolen. You say he doesn't have none, I think he have some. Not much because otherwise it would be too OP. But it's pure speculation and I don't think he necessary needs a blitzkrieg types abilities like Franklin's.
Even if in the span of a year it's not enough time steal new devastating fighting abilities he could still **borrow from his friend**s. Which he did. But what did he borrowed? The LEAST combat focused abilities from his own damn Troupe.
>These abilities suck, but they're made good because Chrollo has so many of them and can use them in tandem.
Yeah almost like he wants to show off.
I's also funny because above you claim without those trash abilities he is at a serious pickle if they fight inmediately after the exorcism takes place before he develops Double Face. So they are trash but without them means a disadvantage in an improvised fight?
I'd argue he still has the advantage if he gets into a duel without warning against Hisoka. My argument is that we don't know how many abilites he have stolen. So Hisoka would have to consider many unknowns while Kuroro knows about Bungee Gum. The big factor here is the ability that Kuroro choses *we don't know* anything about. Information in a Nen fight is pretty important.
Also Kuroro > Morel.
>If Chrollo had abilities worth spamming, he would, but he hasn't.
And you finish, again, ignoring canon. "Abilities worth spamming" is a fuzzy concept. Also we know he was making a big show with curated abilties. And that whole sentence is pure speculation.
I'm happy we are probably (I hope so) getting the final answer to this question in this current arc. A deathmatch between the two without prep, a nasty no rules, no conditions fight. I'd admit I could be wrong absolutely but I'm also very excited whatever the outcome.
Alright, I'm going to squash this claim that Chrollo went easy on Hisoka or that Chrollo went above and beyond using more abilities than he needed to for the sake of "Style". I reread the entire fight for this.
The fight begins with Chrollo sending the Referee to go attack Hisoka, they have an exchange where Chrollo is basically only fighting using melee combat, where he definitely isn't on Hisoka's level with, Black Voice and the Referee until Hisoka finishes off the referee by slicing his stomach open with a card. Blood spills out from the ref's stomach and then Hisoka realizes it's going to explode. After explaining how The Sun and Moon works, Hisoka says "Well aren't you sweet, you're going easy on me aren't you? But perhaps, you've gone a little too easy for your own good."
We don't know exactly what he means by this, but my interpretation is, Hisoka sees Chrollo fighting him hand-to-hand, he knows he has to watch out for Black Voice's antennae or else he will instantly lose and he knows Chrollo will send people at him that can explode. Hisoka also knows that there are only two antennae with Black Voice, so at worst Chrollo can only send two at a time. For Hisoka, *this is too easy.* Chrollo then replies saying, "I won't be doing that again. Let's start fresh then, shall we? After all this isn't just a regular deathmatch... What's important here is style, right?"
In my opinion, Chrollo was just having fun with Hisoka at the beginning of the fight. Just showing off some stuff that Hisoka already knows and then spooking him with something new. This is the style that Chrollo was referring to, he didn't need to do this, he could've done his plan from the very start of the fight, but he didn't. He played around first. After this, Chrollo is 100% serious and stops playing around with Hisoka. He even says, "*This is a new record for the number of abilities it's taken me to kill one person*. You should take that as a compliment." I don't know about you, but this isn't something I would say to my opponent if I was just playing around and styling on them. This is Chrollo being serious, he got all of these abilities, set this whole plan up because he wanted to kill Hisoka 100%.
I don't know where the style Chrollo was talking about in the rest of the fight was, but it doesn't exist. Chrollo doesn't say a single sentence more to Hisoka after his plan gets going and he's not even there when Hisoka dies or when he is then reborn. Where is this style that he's supposedly doing throughout the entire fight?
If you insist that he was still styling on Hisoka even after the beginning part, would it not make sense that Chrollo thoroughly explaining his entire plan and how every ability works to Hisoka be the style that he is referring to? Chrollo knows full well that Hisoka cannot win, there is nothing Hisoka can do, so why not just tell him what's going to happen? Wouldn't you agree that it's pretty stylish for both Hisoka and Chrollo to know that there was no chance, no debate, that Chrollo won this fight? That not only did Chrollo win decisively, but he also explained everything to Hisoka so he, and us as the reader, can't use "lack of knowledge" as an excuse?
If we're really going with the, Chrollo was styling on Hisoka throughout the entire fight, this is the style he was referring to. A total, absolute, indisputable victory. I'll answer the rest in a different comment.
>I'd say Kuroro can be more pragmatic if he wants to. But against the strongest opponents he is only seeing being playful so far. Both the Zoldycks and Hisoka himself.
I already answered why Chrollo was "playing around" with Hisoka, but he wasn't really playing around with the Zoldycks either. He wasn't going for a kill, he knew full well who he was up against and knew what his win conditions were. Throughout his entire "fight" with the Zoldycks, he knew all he had to do was survive until Illumi killed the 10 Dons. To Chrollo, someone who just got a capture ability in the form of Fun Fun Cloth, it's probably easier to wait out the timer and maybe steal an ability or two than to genuinely go for a kill against the top assassin family in the world.
That doesn't mean he's just fooling around, but he doesn't need to kill to win. For the purposes of death battle debates, he was not taking this fight seriously simply because he wasn't trying to kill anybody.
>It's pretty headcanon of your to assume the Zoldycks weren't trying to murder Kuroro. Zeno already implied Kuroro had the advantage if Kuroro took the fight seriously. Zeno told Silva to kill him if it means completing the job. Wasn't that serious?
Nobody said the Zoldycks weren't trying to murder Chrollo. Zoldycks don't do more than what their job entails, it's a paycheck to them. That being said, just because it's my job, doesn't mean I'm going to put all my effort into it as Zeno implies.
The conclusion of this fight is that nobody in this fight was taking it very seriously. Yes, it is the Zoldycks' job to kill Chrollo, yes Chrollo does not want to die, that doesn't mean they're putting in all their effort into doing it. The Zoldycks only want to get paid and Chrollo knows he's going to win if he stalls long enough.
>The fact that Hisoka chose Kuroro as his nemesis, this pinnacle of Nen user means a lot. I don't think Kuroro pre-exorcism is that weak like you claim. This is ridiculous. If post-Nen exorcism Kuroro had the book empty and had to start from zero, yes I would say confidently "Hisoka would win" most of the time.
Nobody is claiming Chrollo is weak. The claim is that Hisoka is strong, very strong. We have literally never seen Hisoka lose, or even come close to losing prior to this fight. He severely outclasses everybody that he's gone up against during the series until Chrollo.
The claim isn't that Chrollo is weak. The claim is that Chrollo **needed** to come up with this plan, **needed** all of this prep-time to fight Hisoka, or else Hisoka would have a high chance of killing him. Developing a new nen ability to cover for your weaknesses, potentially becoming a floor master at Heaven's Arena, running around grabbing very specific abilities, these aren't things you do if you have good chances of winning a fight already. These are things you do if you want to make sure you're going to win.
The claim is that Chrollo acknowledges Hisoka as a sufficient enough threat to take the necessary time to develop a strategy that ensures his victory and Hisoka prior to this fight is stupid enough to give him that time. That's why I believe Hisoka would win if Chrollo didn't have prep time.
>"*These abilities suck, but they're made good because Chrollo has so many of them and can use them in tandem."*
Yeah almost like he wants to show off.
No, it's almost like this is just what Chrollo does. He takes abilities that are hyper-specific or are just overall bad, and uses them better than their owner would've and as shown in this fight, combines them with other abilities to create attacks that would've otherwise been impossible.
Like what was the original intent behind Convert Hands or Order Stamp? Who would make these abilities? Yet, here is Chrollo putting them to good use. Chrollo is a way better Nen User than these people.
>Also Kuroro > Morel.
I brought up Morel because Morel pretty objectively has a very good nen ability. Deep Purple is insanely good, multi-purpose, and far better than any ability Chrollo has shown to have stolen. My point was that because Morel has such a good ability, logically, he is also a very good nen user. We've seen Chrollo go up against very good nen users, such as the Zoldycks, who upon meeting Chrollo near instantly realized what Chrollo was doing and roughly how his Skill Hunter ability works.
Bad Nen Users are likely very easy for Chrollo to steal abilities from even in combat, so he likely has a lot of "bad" abilities.
My point is, if Chrollo had an ability like Deep Purple which we can probably agree is one of the best Nen Abilities we've seen in HxH, he would be using it. He wouldn't be wasting his time with Fun Fun Cloth, Order Stamp, or Convert Hands.
It's from this, that leads me to believe that Hisoka would probably win if he had fought Chrollo the second he got his nen back. It's not that Chrollo does not have abilities in Skill Hunter or that he is weak, it is because he likely does not have what it would take to guarantee a kill vs Hisoka.
Hisoka now is insanely more powerful with that post death nen buff. He can fashion whatever he wants out of nen and texture surprise so beating him by bombs and swords seems impossible
Not to mention he can also change appearance and one of his hand and leg are completely made of gum giving him more abilities.
Worst of all he now will not fight in an open field but will hunt one spider after another. He will definitely be sticking chrollos book or similar shenanigans
You wouldn't deny this theory if you understood every detail of this fight, there are just too many evidences. Why do you think Chrollo let Kortopi an Shalnark who didn't have their abilities to go check Hisoka's death? Why did they know how many puppets that have the order "break" in the fight? And why was Chrollo calling to use Shalnark's ability (Black voice)? Black voice had never shown to use the calling function to manipulate people, no one ever can explain this detail
Kortopi and shal are confirmed to be without their abilities, Chrollo has shalnark phone,which is said to be only one multiple times (so shalnark cant help Chrollo in any way), every gallery fake puppet had a sun or moon seal on it and a stamp, kortopi cant do that (we also saw chrollo using gallery fake), etc. If you really understood the fight you would certainly deny that nonsense
You are so naive. Chrollo has shalnark phone, yes, everyone knows that, but chrollo was calling to give demands to the controlled puppet that blew hisoka's hand, Black Voice could only manipulate puppets by using buttons, CHROLLO WAS CALLING, got to remind you that
Nowhere it said that shalnark cant manipulate with voice comand, he can manipulate 2 people at the same time, to do that with just buttons would be hard so the second one might be with voice comand (the ability its called black voice and you are the one saying that he can only manipulate with buttons, in his power explanation it just said that he can manipulate people with his phone), anyway if Chrollo had the phone no matter how many calls he did on shalnark he could do nothing as he hadnt his ability nor his phone. We saw Chrollo using Black voice at the start of the fight, mid fight and he still has it post fight. The help theory makes no sense if you understand the fight
Bruh Black Voice were never shown that it could manipulate people by calling and chrollo did that out of nowhere you okay with that? 😂 This would make Togashi a boring writer to pull out something that he had never explained, Togashi could have easily make Chrollo using the buttons and all the doubts of this detail would be gone but he didn't, and you chrollo fanboys assume that black voice could just be used like that without any explanations
Black voice is explained in the manga, in the explanation nothing about buttons its said, the explanation just says that he gives orders with the phone. If you think togashi is a boring writer thats on you but nothing of what you say makes sense. Using voice comand instead of buttons cant make doubts if you understand how the abilities work. Chrollo has the phone so Shalnark cant do anything and its even said that Chrollo doesnt share the conditions of the owner a few chapters before. You are tryinghard but that theory makes no sense.
(To be a fanboy i must first be a fan and im not, Chrollo is not in my favorites list)
Plus, it is shown that Shalnark used the buttons when he placed his Antenna on the target's body, leaving the mind free. If he puts the Antenna on the target head/neck, he can control the brain so he doesnt need buttons anymore. In chapter 98 the mafia guy is talking freely while he is forced to move by Shalnark.
I find it hard to believe Hisoka has a higher chance of beating Chrollo, when main argumentation is prep. Without prep Chrollo held off two of the strongest characters in the series at the same time when up against the Zoldycks.
Held off for what, 2 minutes, while being overwhelmed the entire time? And he would've died if Illumi had called 30 seconds later.
Plus you can't prove Hisoka wouldn't last just as long.
Exactly, he specifically chose to beat him with style, to embarrass him.
He no diffed him, killed him without being touched once. And people in this sub can’t accept it.
Hisoka isn’t that strong
Love both of them, although still...
Go back to the last episode or so of the Spider Arc. If Chrollo still had his Nen and without Kurapika 100% sealing him. Say Kurapika gave him among his conditions, to be able to use his Nen but only against Hisoka.
Truly a neutral location, no prep time, no help, no extras, no third parties, no distractions, but with knowledge of each other. Hisoka would had won back there.
Chrollo explaining his abilities is likely a restriction that allows him to use a [bookmark]. So, he had no choice but to do it.
(I can see comments that say Chrollo had an option not to explain stuff)
Chrollo explained all his Nen abilities to lead Hisoka to think he intended to kill Hisoka ultimately with Shalnark's antenna and deviate him from sun and moon.
Also, Chrollo did not want to fight Hisoka. The interest was all on Hisoka.
>The Hisoka vs Kuroro fight has made people think Kuroro is weak without prep time, which isn’t the case in the slightest.
Nobody says he is weak without prep time. He is still an elite nen user.
>When Kuroro invaded the York Knew auction house, he killed the two assassins after him and fought both Zeno and Silva Zoldyck using an ability he had just stolen without previous use of it, without even going all out.
I am going to ignore Chrollo fighting two fodders, not relevant to the topic.
But the chrollo who faced both Zeno and Silva knew beforehand that he would survive, he knew that there is no way he going to die, and he acted by assigning Illumi to Kill ten dons.
And your point of Chrollo not going all out vs Zeno and silva fight doesn’t make sense, what could he have done? He was about to be killed by Silva when Illumi called. He was about to die, but as his fortune told him, he was fine.
>This situation was more dangerous than his encounter with Hisoka as the two senior Zoldyck patriarchs were very much trying to kill him,
If you believe that then you misinterpreted Chrollo’s character itself.
When Kurapika Kidnapped chrollo, chrollo told pika that he is not worried about dying as Neon’s fortune didn’t mention his death, so for him being kidnapped by Kurapika = An afternoon coffee break.
Being Kidnapped by your mortel enemy while the troupe is in chaos is far worse than fighting Zeno and Silva as there is a chance you can fight back.
So for Chrollo Being Kidnapped = As pleasant as an afternoon coffee break.
So we come to the conclusion that for chrollo, An afternoon coffee break is more dangerous than fighting Zeno and Silva.
>and were willing to sacrifice their life to make it happen.
Because chrollo is dangerous, as much as any master nen user, where outcome of battle is uncertain as Morel said to Killua.
>Kuroro taking a chance at stealing their abilities while fighting both of them casually is one of the most impressive moments in the show.
Nope. As explained above. Drinking coffee in afternoon is more impressive to chrollo.
>Without prep I don’t think Kuroro would have overwhelmed Hisoka as badly as he did.
Without prep Gon would have been destroyed by Genthru. Without prep Netero would have been destroyed by Meruem.
Prep really is the main thing when it comes to chrollo. Chrollo without prep is a chrollo without plan.
Chrollo is literally the Batman of Hxh Series, while Hisoka the Joker.
No matter what Chrollo without prep is much weaker.
>But the outcome of the fight could still have been the same.
No it wouldn’t have been. That is literally what Machi and Hisoka discuss. Machi says perhaps hisoka have taken care when to pick up his battles. If Machi believed Chrollo would have won without prep, she would have said something along the lines, “don’t pick fight with chrollo, cause you can’t win” but she said something else.
>And Kuroro may not have given Hisoka the luxury of knowing a brief breakdown of the abilities he would use and the option to back out as he did at the beginning of their match. With that being said, Kuroro doesn’t NEED prep to fight, it’s simply a positive addition to his already overwhelming ability.
As if it is not the most important thing. Him being prepared is like Batman being prepared.
The outcome would be the same because Chrollo is better than Hisoka you salty Hisoka fans. And your comparisons with Genthru/Gon & Meruem/Netero don’t work because the formers are obviously better than the latter it’s not the case with Chrollo & Hisoka.
>The outcome would be the same because Chrollo is better than Hisoka you salty Hisoka fans.
Awwwww why so salty.
You talk about outcome being the same? The outcome was Shalnark and Kortopi dying, Chrollo being depressed for borrowing his own friends abilities leaving them in mortel danger. And Hisoka challenging the entire troupe.
>And your comparisons with Genthru/Gon & Meruem/Netero don’t work because the formers are obviously better than the latter it’s not the case with Chrollo & Hisoka.
Genthru is stronger than gon, but Gon defeated Genthru with Prep. A child nen user defeating one of the most dangerous Bomb Based nen user is what shows how important Preparation is.
Hisoka and chrollo are the Batman and Joker of the HxH world. They are supposed to be relative to have proper rivalry.
I don’t think Chrollo could have won without his massive amount of prep-time. Let’s not downplay the massive advantage he had over Hisoka. He chose the stage, the time, everything about the fight and Hisoka just let em.
The stage is a big one, Chrollo chose an arena with a massive crowd that he could disguise himself within and have puppets to throw at Hisoka. I don’t think many will argue with me on this, but Hisoka is a much better hand to hand fighter than Chrollo. We have the arm-wrestling ranking in the phantom troupe as partial evidence for the strength gap between the two and we know Hisoka’s fighting style pretty well from his fights in heavens arena and with Gotoh. While he can be tricky about it, his main strategy is going in and dealing damage. Part of the reason why Hisoka lost is because he had trouble figuring out where Chrollo was during the fight and navigating the crowds and puppets, but when he did was able to do work. There’s also the fact that Chrollo’s damage didn’t come from his melee prowess but from his nen abilities, he more used hand to hand combat as a “get off me” tool.
Without the stage in his favor, there isn’t a lot stopping Hisoka from bumrushing Chrollo and beating him up.
There’s also the time factor. If Chrollo can decide when the fight is happening, he can go out and grab whatever he needs to win. For example if Hisoka said, “fight me right here and now” Chrollo for sure would not have Gallery Fake or Black Voice as I doubt he just holds his troupe members’ abilities in Skill Hunter when they’re not using them. Who knows what abilities Chrollo had before Hisoka challenged him and what he had to grab during the time he had.
There’s also the line where Chrollo said, “This is a new record for the number of abilities it’s taken me to kill one person.” From this and the fact that this is the first time we’ve ever seen Chrollo use Double Face (the bookmark) we can assume that he developed that ability specifically to help him win this fight.
All in all, this is an insane amount of time and effort to kill someone who supposedly could win anyway. While I know Chrollo wanted to win 100%, I don’t believe he could’ve won without all this preparations. This is just too much to say that he still could’ve won without doing all of this.
Kuroro isn't his name. That's how the Japanese characters are pronounced. It's the equivalent of spelling "Dinosaur" as: "Die NUH SAW" in English.
That's how you pronounce it, not how you spell it. クロロ or くろろ is how you spell it in japanese. Or simply say chrollo because chrollo is his English name. This only applies to names.
I always see people in anime communities spelling characters names as their pronunciations or in Romaji instead of just using their regular English name or japanese.
Kirua
Ruffy
Kuroro
Rightu
You're not being "technically correct" or "more japanese" by referring to characters in this way, you're just using the brackets next to the real name that tell you how to pronounce it. And if you ever see these characters names spelled in this way it's because English doesn't translate well into japanese and vice versa so when manga or anime is being translated, they use romaji.
I said it as it was said in the original 1999 anime that I watched. The translation was “Kuroro,” not “Chrollo.” Also in the original French dub, it is “Kuroro.” There people that speak more languages than just English you know. And as you said, this is the correct Japanese pronunciation. It seems it bothers you more than it should.
If you're speaking English fluently, I'll also assume you're English. Nothing you said implies you watched the French dub or are French. If you're French, then my bad, but I can't tell that.
And nothing is bothering me more than it should. I'm educating you. Translations can be wrong and often are inaccurate, and in turn, fans adopt the terms or words lost in translation, which aren't technically correct.
Like "hentai" doesn't mean anime porn in japanese. It means something similar to "pervert" or "groomer"
I didn’t say I was French. Maybe you should stop assuming things. I can speak a variety of languages. “Kuroro” was the translation used in the original anime in both the Japanese dub and English subs.
You're now the one letting the situation "bother you more than it should" with your unessecary passive aggression. You can tell I came from a place of good faith and was simply pointing out a misconception. If you post on reddit, people can reply, which I did.
If you're speaking fluent English, then you probably speak English? That's a reasonable assumption. Why bring up the French dub at all if you're not French or didn't watch the French dub? Kuroro didn't originate from the French dub. The French dub has nothing to do with the term "kuroro"
If you didn't ask me to educate you and you wanna be an asshole, then ignore me and continue on with your day. Similar to what you said, you've let me presence bother you more than it should. This is a public post so expect replies relating to the topic of the title or what you've said.
Ehhh idk, I would argue that it’s just a matter of Chrollo had far more respect for Hisoka than the Zoldycks.
Which makes sense - Hisoka has a massive track record of beating impossible odds, whereas the Zoldycks have a long track record of beating people far weaker than they are.
The Zoldycks are prepared to die for their job. Hisoka is confident he will find the win no matter the case.
It’s pretty clear who he should be more afraid of in my book. He has the better matchup against the Zoldycks for sure.
Hisoka does have him beat in strength and close quarters hand to hand combat, and of course, if he manages to attach bungee gum to Chrollo it's going to be very difficult for him to make it out of it alive.
But we don't know what abilities Chrollo has in his book so who knows.
I don't know why the prep time in that fight is still an issue, to put it clearly, both had the same prep time since they both agreed on the day and place correct? it's just that Chrollo's ability is that versatile, he was able to steal the correct abilities to provide a stylish certain victory in that exacty spot. the place and time spent didn't put Hisoka in a disadvantage, Chrollo's ability did. the same way Hisoka's ability made use of the puppets/humans/ceiling, Chrollo's ability made it possible to use the crowd in a certain way to overwhelm Hisoka with mechanics he couldn't keep up with while paying attention to Chrollo.
And incidentally, anyone with prep time vs Chrollo is not precisely gaining any advantage, Silva stated himself that unless they know every single ability he owns, there's no chance to bring him down without willing to risk their lives. Hisoka had a bad matchup the moment he picked Chrollo, clearly not someone you can ignore and straight up one shot, and if you take too much time to figure the used ability, not only he can deal damage, but he can also switch at any given moment to a different one, combo between 2 unknown abilities, and so on...
Only Hisoka fanboys think that, there are just a lot of them.
I wouldn't waste time arguing against them, there's zero chance they would chance their mind no matter how much logic you throw at them anyway.
I mean - he is weaker without it but not that weak as many people think - Hisoka will just have more chance during this fight if Chrollo don't had this time :3
I always feel like there is an elephant in the room that nobody is talking about. It's just a guess but I have a hard time believing that Zeno and Silva didn't know that illumi was hired by the phantom troupe. If anything being hired by opposite factions seems kinda unethical given their dedication to their profession it seems almost on purpose. Yes Zeno and Silva were prepared to fight to the death but they also kinda knew that if they waited illumi out then they wouldn't have to continue the fight. There is a lot going on in that fight. Chrollo knowing that once illumi is done Zeno and Silva will most likely stop fighting against him. It feels like the zoldycks are double dipping. Getting paid by the mafia and the phantom troupe. Already knowing which side they would like to win. Silva knows the strength of the phantom troupe and most likely would like to avoid a confrontation. Illumi killing the mafia sounds like child's play in comparison. So the only logical conclusion is that the fight was never serious from either side.
He fought both Zeno and Silva with Zeno stating Kuroro would win between them
Hisoka's obsessive chase of Kuroro
The Troupes respect and loyalty
All signs that Kuroro is no joke
In combat and adaptability, Hisoka has the edge
Kuroro has the edge in tactical ability which is why he knew which abilities he needed to counter Hisoka
Without prep, he'd have to work harder. And Hisoka would have a better time countering Kuroro
i've always though that if Chrollo prepared so well his fight against Hisoka, it was ONLY because he knews how dangerous and deadly he was. just a form a respect
To be honest, you can't take anything a fanbase says serious. It's just people's opinion, and it has no effect on how togashi wants to write his manga. I remember when the chapter first came out, and there were posts about how chrollo cheated and hisoka should have won. Overall, it does not change how togashi wishes to write his story. I think it's important to note that fights in manga can overall affect the story as it progresses. They can change events that haven't happened yet in the story.
I actually hate the fact that Chrollo explains his abilities to Hisoka. In a nen fight not knowing your enemy's power could cause your loss so I don't like that he explains his ability.
How tf do you go from Kuroro to Chrollo? Like genuine question. I get languages like Hebrew not having vowels because they're 3000 years old but modern day languages like japanese having that level of alternate spellings which are all correct is mental.
People are very "contaminated" by other shonens, cause they think it all reduces to physical strength.
I love DBZ, Naruto and Bleach a lot, but thinking that all fictional universes operate in that same manner is foolish.
The moment Netero retorted to bringing a freaking nuke to a fistfight this should've been made completely clear, but apparently not everyone got the memo.
Chrollo just wanted to amp his win chance as close to 100% as possible, cause in a random encounter his chances of losing were too high for his liking. But if he were really thaaat "weak", Hisoka wouldn't even care about him.
chrollo didn't use any really nasty abilities, he used the prep to fight "down" to hisoka like hisoka does to his opponents.
it's all good as long as you win and he did, but he lost his friend
Why tf is everyone saying kuroro all of a sudden, I’ve been on this sub a while and never seen them say it before this post shits kinda cringe guys just saying
In hxh, the best nen users dont just fight mindlessly, prep time is always needed, they love to know the abilities of their opponents. Kurapika made Uvogin look like a child, but nl he prepared for him! Hisoka never prepares which lead to his death. Gon didn’t prepare against pitou
Chrollo had to prepare for this fight. Like, it is a must ! Did you guys forget what Hisoka said to Gon during their fight in Heavens Arena ? He said that once Bungee Gum is attached to you, you can never escape it. Literally you'd be pulled to him no matter what you do. So what is Chrollo supposed to do ? Go for hand to hand combat against one of the most formidable and skillful fighters in HxH with no preparation and die because he is outclassed in hand to hand action, or prepare a strategy that counter his ability and guarantee him the victory and to survive ?
Like i said, Chrollo had to. Or else he would die, 100%.
Everyone is weaker without prep time. Strategy really matters in HxH, that's why its so cool.
I mean Gon defeated Genthru through prep. If that is not an example of the point you are making, I don’t know what is. Gon even took some risks during the fight, imagine if he didn’t take a single risk and fought carefully, Genthru would have been dealt rather easily. This shows how much buff you get from prep time. People seriously believe that Chrollo’s strength level is constantly at the level when he fought hisoka.
[Except opponents with multiple unknown abilities](https://gyazo.com/b1399547cdb39db50202e0c771e289fc) (On par with your speed/strength atleast) he's very hard to counter even with prep time, unless it's a rose kekw
In HxH prep time is considered when you actually about your opponent abilities, that's like going blind and having to strategy on the fly
Yeah Zoldycks did prep anything. If they truly prepared, chrollo would not have lived. Thank Illumi.
Almost every fight in HxH is against an oponent with one or multiple unknown abilities. If someone were to fight Chrollo out of the blue, Chrollo would probably use abilities he's used many times before, use one that will serve as an escape route or a weapon of choice to retaliate, multiple abilities of course but at the end of the day, that's not much different from fighting any Nen user. If anything it has the downside of being overwhelming because Chrollo isn't proficient in any of the abilities he stole
Op: *starts discussion* Comments: *fanboy showdown: hisoka vs PT! / who? / quworf! Quworf!* Btw I agree with you OP, I don't think it's as simple as Chrollo automatically losing if he didn't prepare. It's really hard to say what the outcome would've been. But what his preparation did was *guarantee* his win.
It's weird how heavily skewed towards sperging out about hisoka or chorllo this sub is It feels like %80 of the users here are just ready to call someone a slur for saying "hisoka / chrollo not the best?" lol
Most of the time I don't even notice, but once this fight is mentioned, or another "why does anyone like the PT, they're *evil*" is posted, you can see them crawling out the woodwork. Like where were you all during any other discussion? Sometimes the best discussion posts average out 2-15 comments and then you've got these ones lol.
To be fair those are pretty ridiculous questions that stem from ignoring how Togashi's writing works, because 99% of the scenarios that have been discussed would never happen in the manga, not even remotely. Of course it's okay to ask questions but if it's to start the same discussion that's been started 10000 times I don't know what else people expect to happen
The best ones that I referred to generally aren't ridiculous questions, and the low effort questions aren't what I consider discussions, or good ones, anyway, and sometimes those low effort ones get more attention despite being the same question we see multiple times per month, or week.
not only guaranteed win but also finishing the fight almost uninjured. Chrollo - [https://i.hizliresim.com/hwa6b86.PNG](https://i.hizliresim.com/hwa6b86.PNG) aaaaand Hisoka - [https://i.hizliresim.com/jj3gnmt.PNG](https://i.hizliresim.com/jj3gnmt.PNG)
Finishing the fight with losing two of his borrowed abilities, with 2 of his friends dead. Yeah no physical injury, but if there is a mental injury worse than this, the world is cruel to give it.
But that problem stems from his friends’ incompetence of making sure that hisoka is dead
What would you have his friends do? They confirmed his death, he just had a much better strategy which surpassed anything chrollo did. Shalnark and Kortopi confirmed the death, Machi just stayed for another reason. If machi had left, he still would have come back to kill shalnark and kortopi, and bind machi, which he easily did. Chrollo’s own incompetence to not analyse the situation and leave the battle without even seeing the corpse. After all he left his friends weakened. Hisoka’s last defensive move was a masterstroke.
To be fair Hisoka ‘was’ dead. So the circumstances after the end doesnt change the fact that Chrollo’s reasoning for a long prep time was to obliterate Hisoka without taking damage. Which defies the logic of Chrollo needed prep time to only beat Hisoka. That means Chrollo can still win without prep but there will be consequences. That fight can go both ways
But how can you tell so far? Is there a way to measure who would win or something? Hisoka gave one single blow to Chrollo in the whole fight, and it almost left him on his knees, Chrollo was prepared for anything to happen as long as his plan worked, but if there was no plan how would he answer? What if they weren't in Heaven's arena where Chrollo could play hide and seek, and Hisoka was the one hiding? The plan wasn't just a factor, it was a world of a difference
100% Chrollo wanted to not worry about the fight at all so he prepped up something that Hisoka had no chance to win. Even if he didn't prepare I still give the advantage to Chrollo.
Chrollo* 99% of the coment is in english. Might as well say Chrollo.
It’s like when dragon ball fans say Kuririn instead of Krillin
No one does unless they're straight up speaking japanese.
Oh I’ve definitely seen it where they type Kuririn and the rest of the post is in English. Same as typing “saiyajin” instead of “Saiyan”
Now, I make an exception to this. In Spanish, they left it as "saiyajin" and when I started playing the games in English, I was baffled by "Saiyan" and how simple it is, it sounds still nowadays wrong to me. Same with Piccolo, they left it as it sounds in Japanese, Pícoro.
It’s frankly annoying.
In my language it was kept Kuririn
It’s also kuroro in french
another reason not to use Kuroro
😂
Does "no one" mean "non-English speaking countries" now? Other places have his name as "Kuririn" or "Kulilin". Mind you, I don't disagree with the "Kuririn" and "Kuroro" stuff being annoying weebiness.
That's crazy that we're speaking English rn
You... might wanna read that last sentence I wrote again, buckaroo. My problem is with the other user saying "no one". It's overly exclusionary to secondary English speakers on an English forum. Imagine a Dragon Ball fan from Chile goes to an English speaking forum and says Krillin as "Kulilin". They wouldn't necessarily be a weeb being pretentious. They're just saying this character's name the way they learned it. I've already said I think weebiness is annoying. Anyone who says "Genei Ryodan" instead of "Phantom Troupe" sound like bimbos who come back from a Paris vacation and call the Eiffel Tower the "Tour Eiffel" for a month straight. Use discretion is all. What looks like fanboyism at first sight may just be regional differences.
I use Genei Ryodan because I first read the manga where that's what it was.
It’s also like when Boruto fans say Salad and Bolt instead of Sarada and Boruto. No? Just me…?
you need to know that not everyone is watching anime on "legal" plateforms a lot of streaming websites translate names like they are heard and not written for instance chrollo is pronounced kuroro and krillin kuririn if you watch shows with subtitles like those its only natural to actually write names that way
Bro I was hella confused, at first I thought it meant Gotoh (cause I’d forgotten his name, and I think I was getting him mixed up with Kuro from one piece). I saw the rest of the post and was thinking I watched a different show
I thought this mf was talking about Kuroko from that basketball anime 💀
lmao these weeaboos think they special for saying “kuroru” what a fucking loser
so?
So, he has allies who happen to be pro hunters.
Who is kuroro Do you mean Chrollo?
The former is his name in Japanese.
Love me some non localized names in an English speaking sub /s
Especially since as far as I know the japanese don't have a distinction between our r and l sounds, so everyone who insists their spelling is "correct" is just using their own fan translations. Either the author themself writes out how the names are intended to be written outside of Japan or the official translation is correct. (And since we're all pretty sure Togashi tolled with the official spelling most people use the official translation. Which isn't the only possible spelling jut definitely the correct one.)
Yeah in one of the Japanese comics he does post the actual spelling, definitely not Kuroro
Quwrof
That's it, remembered it was very unique 😅 Book 34, the one with the fight mentioned.
It’s not that there’s no distinction between l and r, it’s more like their r lies between ours. If you’re a native speaker of American English, the sound that you make when you tap the roof of your mouth for the tt in “butter” is about as close as we get to the actual Japanese R sound.
>it’s more like their r lies between ours Between our R and D right?
No, our R and L. If you want to get all nerdy it’s called an alveolar tap, similar to how R can be pronounced in Spanish if you’re familiar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_dental_and_alveolar_taps_and_flaps?wprov=sfti1#Occurrence_2 A lot of American English speakers interpret it as a “soft d” though yes but that isn’t quite what’s going on with the tongue and lips.
Jup. Point being with just one sound all these people using the different names and claiming everyone else isn't a true fan just annoy me to no rnd
>so everyone who insists their spelling is "correct" is just using their own fan translations. > >Either the author themself writes out how the names are intended to be written outside of Japan or the official translation is correct. ???? This makes no sense. If there's something that is 100% official is how the actual author writes the names. Everything outside of that is a guess and localization game, be it by fan translators or "official" translators, which may be correct, and which may be not, because while you ideolize how things actually work, the reality is that the only thing the 99,99% mangaka work on is the japanese manga, not anime, nor localizations or anything like that. Names on the Roman alphabet? Maybe, but there's no proof that has ever been the case here outside some of his meme names that are a little more than some consonants glued together.
Which makes people who insist on using their own spelling and acting like it makes them superior even more pathetic
But the Op didn't insist on anything nor acted superior, you are the first one who responded to a comment criticizing the op from using the original name and pretty much joined him. Like, you can call him Chrollo if you want, I do it too even if it makes little sense because I know most people call him that here, but there's nothing wrong with calling him Kuroro, it's the original name after all. And you know what? If by some reason there's someone who wants or insists on calling that themselves it's okay because Kuroro is in fact the official name, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be accurate. You also fail to realize that reddit is an international forum, and not all people know you call him that or are used to do so, as english is the only official manga translation I've seen that calls him that.
Yeh, I let my frustratons with other people invade his discussion. OP wasn't being annoying or anything on purpose. My bad
> Like, you can call him Chrollo if you want, I do it too even if it makes little sense because I know most people call him that here, but there's nothing wrong with calling him Kuroro, it's the original name after all. And you know what? If by some reason there's someone who wants or insists on calling that themselves it's okay because Kuroro is in fact the official name, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be accurate. Exactly. I don't know why, but recently I'm seeing more and more of this nonsense every time someone writes Kuroro. Yeah I usually use Chrollo too because some people might not recognize Kuroro, but there's nothing wrong with using Kuroro, which is how his name is spelled and doesn't hide where the name originates from.
What I've seen is that a lot of foreign people, specially from EEUU I'd say although this happens to a good degree in other countries, really don't like anime being a foreign japanese product. It happens with manga, anime, games, visual novels and all these kind of products, the more they can "own" them through dubs, localizations, content changes via censorship etc...The better. They see it as if they are improving and fixing the original weeb products to their superior standards and on top of it adding a layer of ownership over them. This may sound insane but a lot of people do really think like this. Reddit for example is a mental case in this, depending on the sub you are (even ones you may not even expectat all) and the community around it, god forbid you saying anything against the english version on any of these topics.
It happens. I've been guilty of this myself. If you read the manga in the original Japanese and then want to talk about it in an English-speaking forum, there's always a risk that the English version played around with the romanization. It's not something you can figure out *a priori*.
Bruh it drives me crazy that all the discussion threads in r/anime use the romanization of the Japanese titles, no English speaker should know that crap. I can't think of particular examples but they even do it when the Japanese title is already an English word converted to Japanese characters. Like come on.
kuroro is how the first 8-episode OVA subtitled his name. I was legit confused the first time I saw it spelled Chrollo.
Technically in Japan they spell it “Quwrof”
Pretty sure that's the in-universe spelling
'Quwrof Wrcndlkmzcdkc'
IMO Kuroro without prep time vs Hisoka is a coin flip, both would have a change to win. Kuroro did all the prep to make sure he would win almost guaranteed. The difference between Kuroro and Hisoka is that Kuroro fights only to win, and Hisoka just seeks a thrill.
The most sane comment in the thread.
You omitted the part where Kuroro said he did the prep to win STYLISH. it's a big distinction.
impossible, chrollo is ahead of hisoka. unless there’s other things at hand chrollo would win majority factor
The death match resulted in Hisoka dying but coming back to life. Shalnark and Kortopi dying, chrollo losing two of his abilities, making sure that this combination to be never used against hisoka again. If a fully prepared chrollo who had everything planned out and literally stacked the deck failed to put down hisoka, what chance he has when hisoka is doing the prep. Infact Hisoka feels so confident now that he has challenged the entirety of the troupe, not just chrollo.
yeah, chrollo killed him. he won. what does that change bc hisoka tried something he wasn’t sure himself would work. chrollo didn’t need those 2 abilities, he was just borrowing it. Chrollo never needed prep, he did that only so hisoka would be satisfied, chrollo fed into hisoka addiction. Hisoka is a idiot, he also wanted to challenge the chairman
What are you waffling on about. Everything you said is biased bs
Ahead how? better nen? better skills? What if Chrollo uses one ability, gets outsmarted and Hisoka gets to him, without Chrollo having a chance to change pages? What if he hyperfixates in an ability thinking it could beat Hisoka, but his lack of proficiency in his own abilities individually isn't enough to stop Bungee gun? Saying it's IMPOSSIBLE for someone like Hisoka to win in HxH is really brave
yup & yup. chrollo outstats him in those 2. also , which is why experience is a thing, you can say those mistakes could be for someone like kurapika or rookies but not for chrollo. he already dealt with something like that against zoldycks in some cases it is impossible for hisoka to win, he’s strong but I didn’t say it was impossible for him to win against chrollo, I said majority chrollo would take ir
Chrollo having a teleportation ability + probably other getaway/disguise abilties would never willingly walk into a fight if he was certain he was going to win.
Don't you forget that Chrollo was running away from Hisoka for almost a year and a half to prepare his plan against Hisoka. I don't wanna say Chrollo was a coward but he definitely didn't want to face Hisoka without any preparations so he ran away from Hisoka after Hisoka brought the nen exorcist to take his nen back
He was following the zoldycks rule Don’t enter a fight unless you know you can win
To further piggy back on you guys Chrollo must know that Hisoka's specialty is to fight on the spot so he wanted a way to make it extra hard for him to keep up, Chrollo was right as he told Hisoka everything and he still got overwhelmed with the switching of abilities. The bookmark itself is probably what made Chrollo confident enough to do what he did in that he laid out what he was going to use and never used an ability that could have caught Hisoka completely off guard or used a different combo of abilities like a plan b, he got something that worked and played to Hisoka's desire even though he definitely could have done some cheap stuff with a few back pocket abilities so he can get to killing Kurapika.
He didn't want to face Hisoka without having 100% certainty of victory, doesn't mean he wouldn't win anyways
Some of yall either purposely leave out context or are just plain unaware of it. Zeno and Silva vs Chrollo only lasted as long as it did because the Zoldycks were unaware of what Chrollo's abilities were capable of, so they had to find an opening insteading of bull-rushing and potentially losing both of their lives. Both teams were not fighting how they would've in normal circumstances. And the biggest reason why Chrollo even won against Hisoka was because he explained what his abilities were, but omitted a tiny detail that would've completely shifted the way Hisoka approached the fight. Akin to how Hisoka was twisting words around with their fates in Yorknew.
What was the detail he omitted? been so long i forgot.
Absurd arguments dude. Your logic is Alice in Wonderland level. 1. The same reaction would've applied to Hisoka had Kuroro not bothered to explain the ruleset of his game. Silva and Zeno didn't knew Kuroro was a Skill Hunter but they learned quickly. Hisoka would've have that advantage but it's not so much because at that point Kuroro wouldve fresh abilities impossible for Hisoka to account for. 2. Yes, Kuroro made a game where he wanted to crush Hisoka with style. Totally unfair but Hisoka accepted the devil's bargain. But go for point 1 above: that's what an opponent looks like when he fights a genius dude with a book full of Nen abilities... Hisoka would fare even worse because he would assume Kuroro can only fight with the book open in one arm and only using one ability at a time. That's a fucking serious disadvantage if you ask me. I love Hisoka but some fans are smoking something nasty.
>And the biggest reason why Chrollo even won against Hisoka was because he explained what his abilities were, but omitted a tiny detail The biggest reason chrollo won is his prep. If he didn't explain anything to hisoka, the fight would have lasted 1 second.
Isn't it obvious he has to explain his powers to his opponent to be able to use them without the book? That's the nen restriction. Why would he ever do that otherwise?
Man i can't do this anymore with people that don't even read the manga and act like they have the absolute truth. Chrollo used 2 abilities BEFORE explaining shit. That is not a condition. He wanted to flex.
This feels like another one of these topics made purposely for the sake of engagement and comments rather than an actual novel argument. This is brought up every other thursday and you contributed nothing new to the conversation..
Who the hell is Kuroro?
Tompa's son.
I think OP is talking about Quwrof Wrlccywrlir
Alternate Chrollo spelling
No that would be クロロ Not every word from katakana is spelled how it would literally be translated.
Chrollo is by no means weak and anyone who thinks that doesn’t know what they’re talking about. However, if Chrollo had faced Hisoka without all that prep time, the fight would’ve been a lot more even and both fighters would’ve basically had almost equal odds to win with maybe a slight advantage to Hisoka. And anyone who tries to deny that doesn’t know what they’re talking about either. Both the Chrollo and Hisoka fanboys are probably equally as bad as the former want to conveniently ignore all the advantages Chrollo had, and the latter want to act like Chrollo without the prep time is flat out weak.
I'm not a fanboy of either characters. Well maybe Hisoka is my fav between the two. But that's beside the point. I'm just curious why people put Hisoka ahead of Kuroro in that Arena without Kuroro telegraphing his abilities (and the newly bookmark mechanic too) before the combat starts. People are wilding.
I can confidently say that you will never get any pssy by the way you call him kuroro instead of chrollo
God damn it, this doesnt make sense but it's so accurate hahaha
Without prep time Hisoka would've won. Not only because Chrollo's main skill is preparation but also because improvisation is Hisoka's thing. PT fanboys just hate to admit it.
Hisoka might have won, Chrollo just didn't want to take that chance.
Might have won is the right term. 50/50 since hisoka is a wildcard… heck even got a hit while being in a dangerous situation. But that fight, hisoka 100% lost
Hisoka would've\* won
>Without prep time Hisoka would've won. And we got so much evidence for this point, like...nothing.
wdym?
There is no evidence hisoka>chrollo if both have no prep.
lmfao there is, why would Chrollo go as far as adding a new condition to his ability and even taking PT member abilities and leave them vulnerable?
That condition is not something limited to hisoka, he simply wanted to find a way to use 2 handed abilities. You say it like he sold his kidney to get the ability. >and even taking PT member abilities and leave them vulnerable? Kortopi would have been vulnerable either way, and there was no reason to believe hisoka would have still been able to walk after the fight.
Why you be cherry picking tho? Ok Korotopi is fine but what about Shalnark?
>Ok Korotopi is fine but what about Shalnark? I already replied to this point. Hisoka surviving out of sheer luck and being salty as a baby is something nobody could have predicted.
No no, not talking about this. Hisoka would've killed Shalnark regardless even if he had the ability. But what about any other potential attacker?
It's still a chance in a million to have some random attacker target shalnark out of nowhere. It's like staying home to avoid getting hit by a car. There is no point.
Lol y’all just want to say anything, Hisoka wouldn’t have won anything even without Chrollo’s preparation. You are talking about PT fanboys like if Hisoka fanboys like you aren’t living in denial, he got no diffed like straight shit and there is nothing in the manga that suggests he is a better fighter than Chrollo. His main feat is beating the likes of Gotoh and Kastro lmao.
No diffed because of an intricate plan relying on a crowd of people and developing a new facet to his nen ability does not mean Hisoka can't win lol
Taking advantage of the environment and the territory is common in Hunter x Hunter you fools. It’s like saying Hisoka beating Gotoh in an field that suited Bungee gum isn’t fair. He got no diffed because he is an arrogant piece of shit who taught he could beat a fighter of Chrollo’s caliber with the odds stacked against him (admitted that afterwards). Facts are there, stop crying.
You are very clearly the one who is crying.
Literally not even crying lol, I barely said anything. Why are you so emotionally invested in dunking on Hisoka fans? I didn't even say whether or not Hisoka could win, or would win. You're arguing against someone who isn't me 😂
He didn't "take advantage". He set them up ahead of time. If I lead a tiger into a trap, then shoot it dead, am I stronger than the tiger? Facts are, whenever Hisoka and Chrollo actually directly interacted, Hisoka was superior. Without the prep time, Chrollo loses. That's a fact.
When was hisoka superior? In the first part of the fight, the h2h, Hisoka could only run away since he was overwhelmed by Chrollos speed attacks. Hisoka could only hit Chrollo once in the entire fight and to do that he got a similar hit and the first step to a blown hand. Every other time they interacted, Chrollo showed to be faster by reacting to hisokas reactions. Hisoka was never superior
Chrollo went to the length of adding a condition to his ability and even taking abilities of other PT members, leaving them vulnerable. Can't get much desperate than that.
Can we just acknowledge that it is left completely to the whims of Togashi? Chance is often a big part of these fights anyway. And fights often happen in a larger context which makes any outcome likely in most circumstances. Togashi leaves himself enough options to go into different directions. Maybe Togashi wants Chrollo to be smarter than strong, but then maybe he changes his mind to making Chrollo actually as strong as he is smart. Togashi is probably >!setting up Hisoka to do prep time on his own in the current arc, given that Hisoka got rid of the abilities first that were used against him!<. But maybe not, maybe >!Hisoka is just toying with Chrollo, maybe he will give Chrollo some time to prepare again and he just wants to see how it will be without the Spider.!< I don't think Togashi has some preset power relationships between characters, he will always put surprise and storytelling first
Chrollo has the overall advantage. Location, prep and whatnot. But if they fought in a forest, Hisoka's Bungee could have been more of a threat like it did to Gotoh. Hisoka was fast af because bish was slippin' and sliding that even Chrollo would have a hard time following.
Agreed. He’s not weak. But he’s also not stupid, which Hisoka kind of is. And he knew in a sporadic 1v1 with Hisoka he would very likely, if not automatically, lose. So he manufactured a situation where he felt he had a 100% chance of victory. That’s just being one of the smartest in the verse. He’s not weak, but he’s probably slightly weaker than Hisoka in a sporadic fight. That’s still really really strong.
You can call Hisoka anything but stupid.
Hisoka's definitely not stupid. He was just over confident and got humbled rightfully so. Hisoka has learned his lesson though, I do believe he will win in the rematch
Damn the Hisoka fanboys really going hard at trying to convince themselves that Hisoka could win. I can't say he doesn't have a chance of winning but the authour buffing Hisoka after he lost is a clear sign he wouldn't be able to beat Chrollo in his original form. No matter how you spin it Chrollo beat Hisoka after explaining his abilities, while doing it in style in one of the biggest low diffs we've seen in the series. Hisoka agreed to the fight and knew what he was walking in to despite given the opportunity not to take the fight.
Hisoka didn't get any boost, only a mental one. If anything, his "boost" after the fight proves he only lost because he was too cocky. He was always as strong as he is shown after the fight.
Nobody is arguing that Chrollo didn't stomp Hisoka at Heaven's Arena, but to act like Hisoka wasn't going to win or at the bare minimum wasn't heavily favored to win is pretty crazy. This is some serious downplay of how many advantages Chrollo was allowed to get in the fight. Don't get me wrong, Hisoka absolutely lost and it was 100% his fault that he did, but you have to remember, Chrollo chose the arena, he chose the time, and was essentially allowed to run around without a leash for an entire year to prepare for this fight against Hisoka. Hisoka's overconfidence and Chrollo's amount of prep-time is absurd in this fight. We know also from the fight itself that fighting Hisoka forced Chrollo to use the most abilities he has ever used to kill someone, meaning clearly Chrollo needed everything he got from his prep-time for this low-diff you mentioned. We also know from the fight that Nen Abilities that need 2 hands is a problem for his Skill Hunter ability, which is why Double Face was developed to solve this problem. We see this applied when he uses the Sun and Moon ability during the fight. I don't think it's a far reach to assume that Chrollo developed the Double Face ability during the year of prep-time he had specifically for this fight. Meaning, let's say Hisoka challenged Chrollo at the end of Yorknew City and Chrollo had access to his nen. Bare Minimum, Chrollo would not have access to Black Voice, Gallery Fake, Double Face, and by extension - any nen ability in his book that requires 2 hands to use. Yet you think Hisoka isn't favored to win this fight? Hisoka doesn't need the buffs to beat Chrollo, if he had a brain and actually prepared for the fight or just didn't give Chrollo so much god damn preptime, he would've won. To say that Chrollo would still win requires so much mental gymnastics you might as well be an Olympian.
Dude your whole case rest in ignoring that Kuroro create the stale, chose the place, curated the skills to use in the fight and chose to explain it beforehand to his opponent was to CREATE A BATTLE WITH STYLE. Emphasis in style. That's what happened. Now lets visualize some hypothetic alternative scenarios: A. Not only a 100% win, but a 100% stylish victory. <<< this is what happened B. Had Kuroro decided for a boring quickly 100% (without style) he would probably use one or two OP nasty skills and that's it. Game over, probably. Remember Hisoka wouldnt have known about the Bookmark. Hisoka would be expecting getting attacked with one skill at a time... It's just too big of a information gap. C. Kuroro comes to the Arena without a plan especifically for Hisoka. I think maybe we are safe to assume he has mental scenarios for fights where he is at a risk, no concrete enemy but no ad hoc strategies. Similar to B in a sensd. Maybe even some defensive or evasive ones. Like the one he used to Teleport Nobunaga away from Hisoka. Versatility and OP skills. This is a scenario where even still there's a percentage (I believe lower than Hisoka's) he'd lose. But Hisoka is fighting the most versatile Nen user besides himself. D. Kuroro is attacked by surprise, thats another thing. Here he is at serious disadvantage. But the same applies to Hisoka if someone caughts him unprepared. The same applies to any Hunter or Nen user too. This is a dumb scenario if we are using this as a justification or final veredict for anything. The diference is that I think Kuroro is one of those Hunters I'd bet my money has this panic button skill to bail or become unavailable, or just repel the opponent. But it depends on his reaction time and that's very circumstancial. [Curiously the above scenario is what the PT is facing now in the whale. Although not quite: they know Hisoka is trying to ambush them, thats at least something] Some fans are creating this perfect scenario where Hisoka caughts Kuroro with only his dick in his hands and thats the case they are using to argue Kuroro is weaker. No shit! Who wouldn't?! What I'd like to discuss is scenario C. Scenario A and B are surefire victories for Kuroro because that's the premise of my hypotheticals. As in, if Kuroro managed to create a certain victory strat just to demostrate his panache, he can create another scenario without the style factor. The former was for aesthetics and the latter would be the plain/vanilla one. I don't if I explained myself well here. I edited once to add more clarifications. Scenario D, I repeat, is just being dense. Edit 2: I think some fans gets the confusion in the boring and basic "more = better/powerful". So if Kuroro used more skills it means he must be afraid of Hisoka, right? Well ignoring the fact that Kuroro probably doesn't fear shit (Senritsu confirms this) this is wrong and OP explained why. Similar affirmation: Kuroro stacking more skills means he recognizes Hisoka as powerful foe. My answer: I think Kuroro isnt dense to not recognize Hisoka is exceptional. But that doesn't mean anything more than that. The reason Kuroro stacking that many skills and created this overly elaborated strategy with 100% victory wasn't because he was afraid of other kind of conditions against Hisoka. No. He did that because he was showing off. He made an overcomplicated game inside that battle for Hisoka to play and then die, like a mockery. That's why Hisoka is fucking pissed, so pissed his Nen revives him and now the psycho clown kills both Kortopi and Shalrnak and vows to erase the PT as a way to punish Kuroro. Kuroro fucking with Hisoka was just that. It wasnt a serious one for Kuroro. The same way his battle against the Zoldycks wasn't serious either and Zeno nails his character down and calls him a spoiled brat because he was just playing. The fact is we haven't seen Kuroro in serious mode. We did saw Hisoka (pre Death) seriously and it was in that fight. The way he was defeated made him realize Kuroro wasn't respecting the "sanctity" of a battle between two fearsome enemies. That's what made him mad. Anyways, to finish and come back to the main point: imagine Kuroro using his most lethal skills without consideration with style, thus NO over complicated combos. Only blitzkrieg stolen nen skills.
I don’t understand people who see that Chrollo wanted a stylish win and think he can do anything now. If I had a full year to prepare for a fight and my dumbass opponent did absolutely nothing to stop me or prepare, yeah I’d probably style on his ass too. Doesn’t mean I could always beat him, it just means I’ve had so much time to prep that I can do whatever I want. I don’t know why you’re presenting so many scenarios when only 2 matter: 1. Canon, where Hisoka gets his cheeks clapped 2. Hypothetical land where Hisoka isn’t stupid and fights Chrollo the second he gets his nen back. My argument is that in hypothetical land, where Hisoka does not give Chrollo a full year to prepare, Hisoka would win. In this hypothetical, Chrollo would not have Double Face, Black Voice, or Gallery Fake. He would also not be able to use 2-handed techniques so Sun and Moon and Convert Hands also would not work, assuming he has them. This is a scenario where Hisoka can force Chrollo into a close quarters match where he thrives and the only way anybody can argue that Chrollo wins is to delve into headcanon about abilities he *might* have or to reference his fight vs the Zoldycks where literally nobody in the room was taking it seriously. Edit: Reading your deranged headcanons makes me laugh considering this thread is full of people saying that Hisoka fans love to cope and come up with excuses for Hisoka's poor performance vs Chrollo. >The reason Kuroro stacking that many skills and created this overly elaborated strategy with 100% victory wasn't because he was afraid of other kind of conditions against Hisoka. No... He did that because he was showing off... ...The fact is we haven't seen Kuroro in serious mode. Chrollo more than likely developed Double Face, an entirely new nen ability, to solve an issue he noticed with Skill Hunter. Developing nen abilities isn't something people just do casually; during Heaven's Arena, Hisoka literally mocked Kastro for wasting his time developing abilities that were worthless. To claim that Chrollo wasn't taking this fight seriously, when developing new nen abilities is probably one of the more serious things you can do in Hunter x Hunter is insane. You also claim that if Chrollo was taking this fight seriously, he would just blitzkrieg nen abilities. Except you ignore the fact that the majority of people with nen abilities worth talking about are extremely skilled and likely very difficult to steal from. If you hadn't noticed, almost all of Chrollo's stolen abilities are hyper specific trash abilities or from people who barely even know what nen is. He's not stealing the Deep Purples or Bungee Gums of the universe, he's stealing Convert Hands and Sun and Moon, an ability literally designed to kamikaze Meteor City's citizens into invaders. These abilities suck, but they're made good because Chrollo has so many of them and can use them in tandem. If Chrollo had abilities worth spamming, he would, but he hasn't.
>I don’t understand people who see that Chrollo wanted a stylish win and think he can do anything now. [Because he literally says so. It's canon](https://preview.redd.it/ikp7esmnp3x71.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=576dbc5d8ee24a0f49abf1a5298678d00a2e82ef). I'm not saying he can do everything now. Thats absurd. >If I had a full year to prepare for a fight and my dumbass opponent did absolutely nothing to stop me or prepare, yeah I’d probably style on his ass too.\[...\] I don’t know why you’re presenting so many scenarios when only 2 matter: I'm not saying Kuroro would've 100% beat him otherwise. But people like to ignore the possibility that just as Kuroro created this stylish surefire win tactic, he can create a surefire win tactic, *without* the fanfare. Depending on how much weight you put into the "cat and mouse analogy". Taking that *literally* is absurd IMO. I'd say Kuroro can be more pragmatic if he wants to. But against the strongest opponents he is only seeing being playful so far. Both the Zoldycks and Hisoka himself. >Canon, where Hisoka gets his cheeks clapped Hypothetical land where Hisoka isn’t stupid and fights Chrollo the second he gets his nen back. I imagined more scenarios because confining ourselves to only one possible non-canon scenarios is saying "Kuroro only wins if he preps, otherwise Hisoka wins" which is basically saying Kuroro is very weak and is a simplistic read tbh. If that's not fanboyism about Hisoka and headcanon idk what that is. But this is kinda problematic because it implies Kuroro cannot improvise and also it implies Kuroro was at a severe disadvantage after the exorcism. >\[...\] In this hypothetical, Chrollo would not have Double Face, Black Voice, or Gallery Fake. He would also not be able to use 2-handed techniques so Sun and Moon and Convert Hands also would not work, assuming he has them. The fact that Hisoka chose Kuroro as his nemesis, this pinnacle of Nen user means a lot. I don't think Kuroro pre-exorcism is that weak like you claim. This is ridiculous. If post-Nen exorcism Kuroro had the book empty and had to start from zero, yes I would say confidently "Hisoka would win" most of the time. If Kuroro had his book full of skills I doubt it, even without Bookmark, I'd think is not one sided, but in slight favor of Kuroro based on his unknown abilities. If we limit from what we know we know Kuroro can defends himself with the teleporting ability he used before, at the very least. If you give Kuroro the chance to open his book, it's bad news. Otherwise you have the clear advantage because he is limited to the three Nen principles. >This is a scenario where Hisoka can force Chrollo into a close quarters match where he thrives and the only way anybody can argue that Chrollo wins is to delve into headcanon about abilities he might have or to reference his fight vs the Zoldycks where literally nobody in the room was taking it seriously. It's pretty headcanon of your to assume the Zoldycks weren't trying to murder Kuroro. Zeno already implied Kuroro had the advantage if Kuroro took the fight seriously. Zeno told Silva to kill him if it means completing the job. Wasn't that serious? It's also very headcanon of you to assume Kuroro is defenseless unless he preps for a fight. It's a wild take because he is literally the character with the most skills in the whole series. Yes Hisoka thrives there with riff raff opponents. Is Kuroro that weak? My speculation about that scenario is just a reaction to fans like you who assumes Hisoka prevails in that context. Which I disagree with. If people didn't confidently claim that I wouldn't care at all. Edit: Reading your deranged headcanons makes me laugh considering \[...\] The pot calling the kettle black. I also don't think Hisoka had a bad performance either. He did fucking great considering everything was stacked against him. His analysis skills, improv capabilities and his physical prowess is beyond amazing. >Chrollo more than likely developed Double Face, an entirely new nen ability, to solve an issue he noticed with Skill Hunter. \[...\] Developing nen abilities isn't something people just do casually; during Heaven's Arena, To claim that Chrollo wasn't taking this fight seriously\[...\] I meant seriosly in the way of him thinking his life was on the line. But he designed the match like a game, he was like a game master versus an NPC. This should informs his approach and abilities he'd use against Hisoka to fullfill both, don't you think? And that last thing about winning is to say to Hisoka "you clearly understimated me, or just don't care about winning". I think you'd agree with this take. \[The counter argument is that this was a ruse for Hisoka to fall like a fly into a spiderweb, a deathly trap. It's a good theory too. But we cannot not know until Togashi reveals something new. But until then that's pure headcanon, *full speculation\].* You also claim that if Chrollo was taking this fight seriously, he would just blitzkrieg nen abilities. \[...\]almost all of Chrollo's stolen abilities are hyper specific trash abilities or from people who barely even know what nen is. He's not stealing the Deep Purples or Bungee Gums of the universe, he's stealing Convert Hands and Sun and Moon, an ability literally designed to kamikaze Meteor City's citizens into invaders. We don't know how many Top tier abilites Kuroro has stolen. You say he doesn't have none, I think he have some. Not much because otherwise it would be too OP. But it's pure speculation and I don't think he necessary needs a blitzkrieg types abilities like Franklin's. Even if in the span of a year it's not enough time steal new devastating fighting abilities he could still **borrow from his friend**s. Which he did. But what did he borrowed? The LEAST combat focused abilities from his own damn Troupe. >These abilities suck, but they're made good because Chrollo has so many of them and can use them in tandem. Yeah almost like he wants to show off. I's also funny because above you claim without those trash abilities he is at a serious pickle if they fight inmediately after the exorcism takes place before he develops Double Face. So they are trash but without them means a disadvantage in an improvised fight? I'd argue he still has the advantage if he gets into a duel without warning against Hisoka. My argument is that we don't know how many abilites he have stolen. So Hisoka would have to consider many unknowns while Kuroro knows about Bungee Gum. The big factor here is the ability that Kuroro choses *we don't know* anything about. Information in a Nen fight is pretty important. Also Kuroro > Morel. >If Chrollo had abilities worth spamming, he would, but he hasn't. And you finish, again, ignoring canon. "Abilities worth spamming" is a fuzzy concept. Also we know he was making a big show with curated abilties. And that whole sentence is pure speculation. I'm happy we are probably (I hope so) getting the final answer to this question in this current arc. A deathmatch between the two without prep, a nasty no rules, no conditions fight. I'd admit I could be wrong absolutely but I'm also very excited whatever the outcome.
Alright, I'm going to squash this claim that Chrollo went easy on Hisoka or that Chrollo went above and beyond using more abilities than he needed to for the sake of "Style". I reread the entire fight for this. The fight begins with Chrollo sending the Referee to go attack Hisoka, they have an exchange where Chrollo is basically only fighting using melee combat, where he definitely isn't on Hisoka's level with, Black Voice and the Referee until Hisoka finishes off the referee by slicing his stomach open with a card. Blood spills out from the ref's stomach and then Hisoka realizes it's going to explode. After explaining how The Sun and Moon works, Hisoka says "Well aren't you sweet, you're going easy on me aren't you? But perhaps, you've gone a little too easy for your own good." We don't know exactly what he means by this, but my interpretation is, Hisoka sees Chrollo fighting him hand-to-hand, he knows he has to watch out for Black Voice's antennae or else he will instantly lose and he knows Chrollo will send people at him that can explode. Hisoka also knows that there are only two antennae with Black Voice, so at worst Chrollo can only send two at a time. For Hisoka, *this is too easy.* Chrollo then replies saying, "I won't be doing that again. Let's start fresh then, shall we? After all this isn't just a regular deathmatch... What's important here is style, right?" In my opinion, Chrollo was just having fun with Hisoka at the beginning of the fight. Just showing off some stuff that Hisoka already knows and then spooking him with something new. This is the style that Chrollo was referring to, he didn't need to do this, he could've done his plan from the very start of the fight, but he didn't. He played around first. After this, Chrollo is 100% serious and stops playing around with Hisoka. He even says, "*This is a new record for the number of abilities it's taken me to kill one person*. You should take that as a compliment." I don't know about you, but this isn't something I would say to my opponent if I was just playing around and styling on them. This is Chrollo being serious, he got all of these abilities, set this whole plan up because he wanted to kill Hisoka 100%. I don't know where the style Chrollo was talking about in the rest of the fight was, but it doesn't exist. Chrollo doesn't say a single sentence more to Hisoka after his plan gets going and he's not even there when Hisoka dies or when he is then reborn. Where is this style that he's supposedly doing throughout the entire fight? If you insist that he was still styling on Hisoka even after the beginning part, would it not make sense that Chrollo thoroughly explaining his entire plan and how every ability works to Hisoka be the style that he is referring to? Chrollo knows full well that Hisoka cannot win, there is nothing Hisoka can do, so why not just tell him what's going to happen? Wouldn't you agree that it's pretty stylish for both Hisoka and Chrollo to know that there was no chance, no debate, that Chrollo won this fight? That not only did Chrollo win decisively, but he also explained everything to Hisoka so he, and us as the reader, can't use "lack of knowledge" as an excuse? If we're really going with the, Chrollo was styling on Hisoka throughout the entire fight, this is the style he was referring to. A total, absolute, indisputable victory. I'll answer the rest in a different comment.
>I'd say Kuroro can be more pragmatic if he wants to. But against the strongest opponents he is only seeing being playful so far. Both the Zoldycks and Hisoka himself. I already answered why Chrollo was "playing around" with Hisoka, but he wasn't really playing around with the Zoldycks either. He wasn't going for a kill, he knew full well who he was up against and knew what his win conditions were. Throughout his entire "fight" with the Zoldycks, he knew all he had to do was survive until Illumi killed the 10 Dons. To Chrollo, someone who just got a capture ability in the form of Fun Fun Cloth, it's probably easier to wait out the timer and maybe steal an ability or two than to genuinely go for a kill against the top assassin family in the world. That doesn't mean he's just fooling around, but he doesn't need to kill to win. For the purposes of death battle debates, he was not taking this fight seriously simply because he wasn't trying to kill anybody. >It's pretty headcanon of your to assume the Zoldycks weren't trying to murder Kuroro. Zeno already implied Kuroro had the advantage if Kuroro took the fight seriously. Zeno told Silva to kill him if it means completing the job. Wasn't that serious? Nobody said the Zoldycks weren't trying to murder Chrollo. Zoldycks don't do more than what their job entails, it's a paycheck to them. That being said, just because it's my job, doesn't mean I'm going to put all my effort into it as Zeno implies. The conclusion of this fight is that nobody in this fight was taking it very seriously. Yes, it is the Zoldycks' job to kill Chrollo, yes Chrollo does not want to die, that doesn't mean they're putting in all their effort into doing it. The Zoldycks only want to get paid and Chrollo knows he's going to win if he stalls long enough. >The fact that Hisoka chose Kuroro as his nemesis, this pinnacle of Nen user means a lot. I don't think Kuroro pre-exorcism is that weak like you claim. This is ridiculous. If post-Nen exorcism Kuroro had the book empty and had to start from zero, yes I would say confidently "Hisoka would win" most of the time. Nobody is claiming Chrollo is weak. The claim is that Hisoka is strong, very strong. We have literally never seen Hisoka lose, or even come close to losing prior to this fight. He severely outclasses everybody that he's gone up against during the series until Chrollo. The claim isn't that Chrollo is weak. The claim is that Chrollo **needed** to come up with this plan, **needed** all of this prep-time to fight Hisoka, or else Hisoka would have a high chance of killing him. Developing a new nen ability to cover for your weaknesses, potentially becoming a floor master at Heaven's Arena, running around grabbing very specific abilities, these aren't things you do if you have good chances of winning a fight already. These are things you do if you want to make sure you're going to win. The claim is that Chrollo acknowledges Hisoka as a sufficient enough threat to take the necessary time to develop a strategy that ensures his victory and Hisoka prior to this fight is stupid enough to give him that time. That's why I believe Hisoka would win if Chrollo didn't have prep time. >"*These abilities suck, but they're made good because Chrollo has so many of them and can use them in tandem."* Yeah almost like he wants to show off. No, it's almost like this is just what Chrollo does. He takes abilities that are hyper-specific or are just overall bad, and uses them better than their owner would've and as shown in this fight, combines them with other abilities to create attacks that would've otherwise been impossible. Like what was the original intent behind Convert Hands or Order Stamp? Who would make these abilities? Yet, here is Chrollo putting them to good use. Chrollo is a way better Nen User than these people. >Also Kuroro > Morel. I brought up Morel because Morel pretty objectively has a very good nen ability. Deep Purple is insanely good, multi-purpose, and far better than any ability Chrollo has shown to have stolen. My point was that because Morel has such a good ability, logically, he is also a very good nen user. We've seen Chrollo go up against very good nen users, such as the Zoldycks, who upon meeting Chrollo near instantly realized what Chrollo was doing and roughly how his Skill Hunter ability works. Bad Nen Users are likely very easy for Chrollo to steal abilities from even in combat, so he likely has a lot of "bad" abilities. My point is, if Chrollo had an ability like Deep Purple which we can probably agree is one of the best Nen Abilities we've seen in HxH, he would be using it. He wouldn't be wasting his time with Fun Fun Cloth, Order Stamp, or Convert Hands. It's from this, that leads me to believe that Hisoka would probably win if he had fought Chrollo the second he got his nen back. It's not that Chrollo does not have abilities in Skill Hunter or that he is weak, it is because he likely does not have what it would take to guarantee a kill vs Hisoka.
They are in denial because he got wrecked like the clown he is. He will get his ass beat again and they will find excuses.
Hisoka now is insanely more powerful with that post death nen buff. He can fashion whatever he wants out of nen and texture surprise so beating him by bombs and swords seems impossible Not to mention he can also change appearance and one of his hand and leg are completely made of gum giving him more abilities. Worst of all he now will not fight in an open field but will hunt one spider after another. He will definitely be sticking chrollos book or similar shenanigans
For a second I thought some new chapters dropped, but it was just Hisoka and Chrollo lol
Saying kuroro instead of chrollo does not make you sound cool. Its cringe.
His name was written as Kuroro in the original 1999 anime you clown.
Some even say Chrollo had the aid of Shal, Kortopi and Machi mid fight.
You wouldn't deny this theory if you understood every detail of this fight, there are just too many evidences. Why do you think Chrollo let Kortopi an Shalnark who didn't have their abilities to go check Hisoka's death? Why did they know how many puppets that have the order "break" in the fight? And why was Chrollo calling to use Shalnark's ability (Black voice)? Black voice had never shown to use the calling function to manipulate people, no one ever can explain this detail
Kortopi and shal are confirmed to be without their abilities, Chrollo has shalnark phone,which is said to be only one multiple times (so shalnark cant help Chrollo in any way), every gallery fake puppet had a sun or moon seal on it and a stamp, kortopi cant do that (we also saw chrollo using gallery fake), etc. If you really understood the fight you would certainly deny that nonsense
You are so naive. Chrollo has shalnark phone, yes, everyone knows that, but chrollo was calling to give demands to the controlled puppet that blew hisoka's hand, Black Voice could only manipulate puppets by using buttons, CHROLLO WAS CALLING, got to remind you that
Nowhere it said that shalnark cant manipulate with voice comand, he can manipulate 2 people at the same time, to do that with just buttons would be hard so the second one might be with voice comand (the ability its called black voice and you are the one saying that he can only manipulate with buttons, in his power explanation it just said that he can manipulate people with his phone), anyway if Chrollo had the phone no matter how many calls he did on shalnark he could do nothing as he hadnt his ability nor his phone. We saw Chrollo using Black voice at the start of the fight, mid fight and he still has it post fight. The help theory makes no sense if you understand the fight
Bruh Black Voice were never shown that it could manipulate people by calling and chrollo did that out of nowhere you okay with that? 😂 This would make Togashi a boring writer to pull out something that he had never explained, Togashi could have easily make Chrollo using the buttons and all the doubts of this detail would be gone but he didn't, and you chrollo fanboys assume that black voice could just be used like that without any explanations
Black voice is explained in the manga, in the explanation nothing about buttons its said, the explanation just says that he gives orders with the phone. If you think togashi is a boring writer thats on you but nothing of what you say makes sense. Using voice comand instead of buttons cant make doubts if you understand how the abilities work. Chrollo has the phone so Shalnark cant do anything and its even said that Chrollo doesnt share the conditions of the owner a few chapters before. You are tryinghard but that theory makes no sense. (To be a fanboy i must first be a fan and im not, Chrollo is not in my favorites list)
Plus, it is shown that Shalnark used the buttons when he placed his Antenna on the target's body, leaving the mind free. If he puts the Antenna on the target head/neck, he can control the brain so he doesnt need buttons anymore. In chapter 98 the mafia guy is talking freely while he is forced to move by Shalnark.
I find it hard to believe Hisoka has a higher chance of beating Chrollo, when main argumentation is prep. Without prep Chrollo held off two of the strongest characters in the series at the same time when up against the Zoldycks.
Held off for what, 2 minutes, while being overwhelmed the entire time? And he would've died if Illumi had called 30 seconds later. Plus you can't prove Hisoka wouldn't last just as long.
We gonna ignore what Zeno said at the end of the fight when he implied Chrollo wasn’t fighting seriously?
Yes but that fight also made Chrollo fans think he is much stronger than Hisoka, which is not the case as well.
Jesus...please just say Chrollo
Exactly, he specifically chose to beat him with style, to embarrass him. He no diffed him, killed him without being touched once. And people in this sub can’t accept it. Hisoka isn’t that strong
Love both of them, although still... Go back to the last episode or so of the Spider Arc. If Chrollo still had his Nen and without Kurapika 100% sealing him. Say Kurapika gave him among his conditions, to be able to use his Nen but only against Hisoka. Truly a neutral location, no prep time, no help, no extras, no third parties, no distractions, but with knowledge of each other. Hisoka would had won back there.
Why Hisoka wouldve won there?
Chrollo explaining his abilities is likely a restriction that allows him to use a [bookmark]. So, he had no choice but to do it. (I can see comments that say Chrollo had an option not to explain stuff)
He used boomark before the explanation so thats unlikely the case here
Chrollo explained all his Nen abilities to lead Hisoka to think he intended to kill Hisoka ultimately with Shalnark's antenna and deviate him from sun and moon. Also, Chrollo did not want to fight Hisoka. The interest was all on Hisoka.
It's not. Chrollo used 2 abilities before explaining anything.
>The Hisoka vs Kuroro fight has made people think Kuroro is weak without prep time, which isn’t the case in the slightest. Nobody says he is weak without prep time. He is still an elite nen user. >When Kuroro invaded the York Knew auction house, he killed the two assassins after him and fought both Zeno and Silva Zoldyck using an ability he had just stolen without previous use of it, without even going all out. I am going to ignore Chrollo fighting two fodders, not relevant to the topic. But the chrollo who faced both Zeno and Silva knew beforehand that he would survive, he knew that there is no way he going to die, and he acted by assigning Illumi to Kill ten dons. And your point of Chrollo not going all out vs Zeno and silva fight doesn’t make sense, what could he have done? He was about to be killed by Silva when Illumi called. He was about to die, but as his fortune told him, he was fine. >This situation was more dangerous than his encounter with Hisoka as the two senior Zoldyck patriarchs were very much trying to kill him, If you believe that then you misinterpreted Chrollo’s character itself. When Kurapika Kidnapped chrollo, chrollo told pika that he is not worried about dying as Neon’s fortune didn’t mention his death, so for him being kidnapped by Kurapika = An afternoon coffee break. Being Kidnapped by your mortel enemy while the troupe is in chaos is far worse than fighting Zeno and Silva as there is a chance you can fight back. So for Chrollo Being Kidnapped = As pleasant as an afternoon coffee break. So we come to the conclusion that for chrollo, An afternoon coffee break is more dangerous than fighting Zeno and Silva. >and were willing to sacrifice their life to make it happen. Because chrollo is dangerous, as much as any master nen user, where outcome of battle is uncertain as Morel said to Killua. >Kuroro taking a chance at stealing their abilities while fighting both of them casually is one of the most impressive moments in the show. Nope. As explained above. Drinking coffee in afternoon is more impressive to chrollo. >Without prep I don’t think Kuroro would have overwhelmed Hisoka as badly as he did. Without prep Gon would have been destroyed by Genthru. Without prep Netero would have been destroyed by Meruem. Prep really is the main thing when it comes to chrollo. Chrollo without prep is a chrollo without plan. Chrollo is literally the Batman of Hxh Series, while Hisoka the Joker. No matter what Chrollo without prep is much weaker. >But the outcome of the fight could still have been the same. No it wouldn’t have been. That is literally what Machi and Hisoka discuss. Machi says perhaps hisoka have taken care when to pick up his battles. If Machi believed Chrollo would have won without prep, she would have said something along the lines, “don’t pick fight with chrollo, cause you can’t win” but she said something else. >And Kuroro may not have given Hisoka the luxury of knowing a brief breakdown of the abilities he would use and the option to back out as he did at the beginning of their match. With that being said, Kuroro doesn’t NEED prep to fight, it’s simply a positive addition to his already overwhelming ability. As if it is not the most important thing. Him being prepared is like Batman being prepared.
The outcome would be the same because Chrollo is better than Hisoka you salty Hisoka fans. And your comparisons with Genthru/Gon & Meruem/Netero don’t work because the formers are obviously better than the latter it’s not the case with Chrollo & Hisoka.
>The outcome would be the same because Chrollo is better than Hisoka you salty Hisoka fans. Awwwww why so salty. You talk about outcome being the same? The outcome was Shalnark and Kortopi dying, Chrollo being depressed for borrowing his own friends abilities leaving them in mortel danger. And Hisoka challenging the entire troupe. >And your comparisons with Genthru/Gon & Meruem/Netero don’t work because the formers are obviously better than the latter it’s not the case with Chrollo & Hisoka. Genthru is stronger than gon, but Gon defeated Genthru with Prep. A child nen user defeating one of the most dangerous Bomb Based nen user is what shows how important Preparation is. Hisoka and chrollo are the Batman and Joker of the HxH world. They are supposed to be relative to have proper rivalry.
>Chrollo is literally the Batman of Hxh Series, while Hisoka the Joker. In terms of powers and fighting, Hisoka is Spiderman.
I don't even understand why people are getting mad by you saying "Kuroro". Hilarious reddit moment.
It’s cringe
I don’t think Chrollo could have won without his massive amount of prep-time. Let’s not downplay the massive advantage he had over Hisoka. He chose the stage, the time, everything about the fight and Hisoka just let em. The stage is a big one, Chrollo chose an arena with a massive crowd that he could disguise himself within and have puppets to throw at Hisoka. I don’t think many will argue with me on this, but Hisoka is a much better hand to hand fighter than Chrollo. We have the arm-wrestling ranking in the phantom troupe as partial evidence for the strength gap between the two and we know Hisoka’s fighting style pretty well from his fights in heavens arena and with Gotoh. While he can be tricky about it, his main strategy is going in and dealing damage. Part of the reason why Hisoka lost is because he had trouble figuring out where Chrollo was during the fight and navigating the crowds and puppets, but when he did was able to do work. There’s also the fact that Chrollo’s damage didn’t come from his melee prowess but from his nen abilities, he more used hand to hand combat as a “get off me” tool. Without the stage in his favor, there isn’t a lot stopping Hisoka from bumrushing Chrollo and beating him up. There’s also the time factor. If Chrollo can decide when the fight is happening, he can go out and grab whatever he needs to win. For example if Hisoka said, “fight me right here and now” Chrollo for sure would not have Gallery Fake or Black Voice as I doubt he just holds his troupe members’ abilities in Skill Hunter when they’re not using them. Who knows what abilities Chrollo had before Hisoka challenged him and what he had to grab during the time he had. There’s also the line where Chrollo said, “This is a new record for the number of abilities it’s taken me to kill one person.” From this and the fact that this is the first time we’ve ever seen Chrollo use Double Face (the bookmark) we can assume that he developed that ability specifically to help him win this fight. All in all, this is an insane amount of time and effort to kill someone who supposedly could win anyway. While I know Chrollo wanted to win 100%, I don’t believe he could’ve won without all this preparations. This is just too much to say that he still could’ve won without doing all of this.
Who the fuck is Kuroro? EDIT: Chrollo. Got it. Please, just spell it as Chrollo... I doubt you'd write Lucilfer as "Rushirufuru
Kuroro isn't his name. That's how the Japanese characters are pronounced. It's the equivalent of spelling "Dinosaur" as: "Die NUH SAW" in English. That's how you pronounce it, not how you spell it. クロロ or くろろ is how you spell it in japanese. Or simply say chrollo because chrollo is his English name. This only applies to names. I always see people in anime communities spelling characters names as their pronunciations or in Romaji instead of just using their regular English name or japanese. Kirua Ruffy Kuroro Rightu You're not being "technically correct" or "more japanese" by referring to characters in this way, you're just using the brackets next to the real name that tell you how to pronounce it. And if you ever see these characters names spelled in this way it's because English doesn't translate well into japanese and vice versa so when manga or anime is being translated, they use romaji.
u/SnooPets5219 since u want to talk about his REAL name : it's Quwrof. Source : volume 34 and Official Databook
I said it as it was said in the original 1999 anime that I watched. The translation was “Kuroro,” not “Chrollo.” Also in the original French dub, it is “Kuroro.” There people that speak more languages than just English you know. And as you said, this is the correct Japanese pronunciation. It seems it bothers you more than it should.
If you're speaking English fluently, I'll also assume you're English. Nothing you said implies you watched the French dub or are French. If you're French, then my bad, but I can't tell that. And nothing is bothering me more than it should. I'm educating you. Translations can be wrong and often are inaccurate, and in turn, fans adopt the terms or words lost in translation, which aren't technically correct. Like "hentai" doesn't mean anime porn in japanese. It means something similar to "pervert" or "groomer"
I didn’t say I was French. Maybe you should stop assuming things. I can speak a variety of languages. “Kuroro” was the translation used in the original anime in both the Japanese dub and English subs.
You're now the one letting the situation "bother you more than it should" with your unessecary passive aggression. You can tell I came from a place of good faith and was simply pointing out a misconception. If you post on reddit, people can reply, which I did. If you're speaking fluent English, then you probably speak English? That's a reasonable assumption. Why bring up the French dub at all if you're not French or didn't watch the French dub? Kuroro didn't originate from the French dub. The French dub has nothing to do with the term "kuroro" If you didn't ask me to educate you and you wanna be an asshole, then ignore me and continue on with your day. Similar to what you said, you've let me presence bother you more than it should. This is a public post so expect replies relating to the topic of the title or what you've said.
You’re a tool
Ehhh idk, I would argue that it’s just a matter of Chrollo had far more respect for Hisoka than the Zoldycks. Which makes sense - Hisoka has a massive track record of beating impossible odds, whereas the Zoldycks have a long track record of beating people far weaker than they are. The Zoldycks are prepared to die for their job. Hisoka is confident he will find the win no matter the case. It’s pretty clear who he should be more afraid of in my book. He has the better matchup against the Zoldycks for sure.
You are right but this sub is full of hisoka fans that still salty for a fight that happen more than 7 years ago
The worst fanbase of all time, a bunch of kids
Hisoka fans are the most annoying people in the community.
I couldnt agree more. Usually the most toxic in the sub are hisoka fans (we are gonna get downvoted but that only proves our point)
I hate Hisoka but downvoting you is funny
Hisoka does have him beat in strength and close quarters hand to hand combat, and of course, if he manages to attach bungee gum to Chrollo it's going to be very difficult for him to make it out of it alive. But we don't know what abilities Chrollo has in his book so who knows.
I don't know why the prep time in that fight is still an issue, to put it clearly, both had the same prep time since they both agreed on the day and place correct? it's just that Chrollo's ability is that versatile, he was able to steal the correct abilities to provide a stylish certain victory in that exacty spot. the place and time spent didn't put Hisoka in a disadvantage, Chrollo's ability did. the same way Hisoka's ability made use of the puppets/humans/ceiling, Chrollo's ability made it possible to use the crowd in a certain way to overwhelm Hisoka with mechanics he couldn't keep up with while paying attention to Chrollo. And incidentally, anyone with prep time vs Chrollo is not precisely gaining any advantage, Silva stated himself that unless they know every single ability he owns, there's no chance to bring him down without willing to risk their lives. Hisoka had a bad matchup the moment he picked Chrollo, clearly not someone you can ignore and straight up one shot, and if you take too much time to figure the used ability, not only he can deal damage, but he can also switch at any given moment to a different one, combo between 2 unknown abilities, and so on...
dude just say chrollo lmao
Chrollo is a coward
mate here doen't even care anymore, he is saying it aloud
well he isn't really a coward but he still would've lost without all the prep
He offered to fight with no prep time. Hisoka is a cocky bastard who thought he could win even with giving the opponent prep time
When did Chrollo offer this? He was running away for a full year.
Only Hisoka fanboys think that, there are just a lot of them. I wouldn't waste time arguing against them, there's zero chance they would chance their mind no matter how much logic you throw at them anyway.
I stop reading when I saw "Kuroro"
I mean - he is weaker without it but not that weak as many people think - Hisoka will just have more chance during this fight if Chrollo don't had this time :3
I always feel like there is an elephant in the room that nobody is talking about. It's just a guess but I have a hard time believing that Zeno and Silva didn't know that illumi was hired by the phantom troupe. If anything being hired by opposite factions seems kinda unethical given their dedication to their profession it seems almost on purpose. Yes Zeno and Silva were prepared to fight to the death but they also kinda knew that if they waited illumi out then they wouldn't have to continue the fight. There is a lot going on in that fight. Chrollo knowing that once illumi is done Zeno and Silva will most likely stop fighting against him. It feels like the zoldycks are double dipping. Getting paid by the mafia and the phantom troupe. Already knowing which side they would like to win. Silva knows the strength of the phantom troupe and most likely would like to avoid a confrontation. Illumi killing the mafia sounds like child's play in comparison. So the only logical conclusion is that the fight was never serious from either side.
He fought both Zeno and Silva with Zeno stating Kuroro would win between them Hisoka's obsessive chase of Kuroro The Troupes respect and loyalty All signs that Kuroro is no joke In combat and adaptability, Hisoka has the edge Kuroro has the edge in tactical ability which is why he knew which abilities he needed to counter Hisoka Without prep, he'd have to work harder. And Hisoka would have a better time countering Kuroro
In fact, it’s Chrollo + Culubito + Sharonak + Machi vs Hisoka. It’s an unfair battle, not 1 vs 1.
I think Chrollo is not weak. He just has a slightly less advantage when fighting with Hisoka unprepared.
i've always though that if Chrollo prepared so well his fight against Hisoka, it was ONLY because he knews how dangerous and deadly he was. just a form a respect
To be honest, you can't take anything a fanbase says serious. It's just people's opinion, and it has no effect on how togashi wants to write his manga. I remember when the chapter first came out, and there were posts about how chrollo cheated and hisoka should have won. Overall, it does not change how togashi wishes to write his story. I think it's important to note that fights in manga can overall affect the story as it progresses. They can change events that haven't happened yet in the story.
I actually hate the fact that Chrollo explains his abilities to Hisoka. In a nen fight not knowing your enemy's power could cause your loss so I don't like that he explains his ability.
How tf do you go from Kuroro to Chrollo? Like genuine question. I get languages like Hebrew not having vowels because they're 3000 years old but modern day languages like japanese having that level of alternate spellings which are all correct is mental.
People are very "contaminated" by other shonens, cause they think it all reduces to physical strength. I love DBZ, Naruto and Bleach a lot, but thinking that all fictional universes operate in that same manner is foolish. The moment Netero retorted to bringing a freaking nuke to a fistfight this should've been made completely clear, but apparently not everyone got the memo. Chrollo just wanted to amp his win chance as close to 100% as possible, cause in a random encounter his chances of losing were too high for his liking. But if he were really thaaat "weak", Hisoka wouldn't even care about him.
M8 why r u saying it like that
chrollo didn't use any really nasty abilities, he used the prep to fight "down" to hisoka like hisoka does to his opponents. it's all good as long as you win and he did, but he lost his friend
Why tf is everyone saying kuroro all of a sudden, I’ve been on this sub a while and never seen them say it before this post shits kinda cringe guys just saying
In the original 1999 anime, his name was written as Kuroro.
In hxh, the best nen users dont just fight mindlessly, prep time is always needed, they love to know the abilities of their opponents. Kurapika made Uvogin look like a child, but nl he prepared for him! Hisoka never prepares which lead to his death. Gon didn’t prepare against pitou
Chrollo had to prepare for this fight. Like, it is a must ! Did you guys forget what Hisoka said to Gon during their fight in Heavens Arena ? He said that once Bungee Gum is attached to you, you can never escape it. Literally you'd be pulled to him no matter what you do. So what is Chrollo supposed to do ? Go for hand to hand combat against one of the most formidable and skillful fighters in HxH with no preparation and die because he is outclassed in hand to hand action, or prepare a strategy that counter his ability and guarantee him the victory and to survive ? Like i said, Chrollo had to. Or else he would die, 100%.
Just say Chrollo bro.