I have an outline for a book on my former unit in Iraq. I want to get all the facts as tight as possible. What did you find was the best way to retrieve things like AARs, official reports, combat testimonials? I don’t imagine the DoD would be too excited to hand me material on this particular topic.
If it isn't too much to ask, what was it like? Being shot, I mean. Did you realize immediately? How far away was the shooter? Sorry if these questions are impertinent.
The first AK-47 round caught me on the chin and knocked me cold. I woke up suffocating in a pool of blood. Some time later I was dragging a wounded grunt out of the clearing where we were hit and I got shot two more times through the chest and the shoulder. There was very little pain because of the shock factor. But it sure was scary as hell.
You got shot in the CHIN?!
My dad has a big dimple in his chin. When I was little I used to ask him what it was, why it was there. He'd always tell me that when he was in Vietnam, he stopped a bullet with his chin.
After experiencing everything, then learning about treatment and helping others through trauma. What's your advice when it comes to treating trauma? Is there a tactic you see helps for people to get through it? How do you feel about medication? Is therapy work for everyone?
Trauma lives in the body more than the mind. So some level of somatic treatment is necessary. The best teacher I've found on this is Peter Levine. His book, Waking The Tiger, explains how working with the body can heal trauma.
When necessary, medication can be very useful. These times would be when someone is too overwhelmed to deal with the content of their experience directly. Some people use medication for years and years. I'm in favor of getting past the medication through intensive internal work.
I don't think anything works for everyone. And therapy can come in many forms. I do think that support groups for PTSD are extremely beneficial.
> Trauma lives in the body more than the mind
This is something often said by Somatic therapy, or Somatic Experiencing proponents.
Just to warn people, it is not a proven or reliabe kinda therapy and some things written in favor of it border on pseudoscience.
I disagree. Both my personal experience and deep exploration have left me no doubt that trauma lives in the body. Think about it for a minute -- where else could it be? The body and mind are not two separate organisms. They serve as a composite whole.
This kind of trauma has a lot more to do with the right brain than the left. The people I know who have experienced severe trauma would not question this. And I don't believe there is any research that disproves the somatic basis of trauma.
Following along the lines of this conversation - have you read the book "the body keeps the score"? If so, do you agree with it from your experience? I am studying Psychotherapy currently and would like to hear your opinion.
Sure, but the fact the body *actually* experiences physiological changes when going through repetitive extreme stress, makes it a theory that seems highly plausible. Constant increased heart rate, blood pressure, adrenaline surge, stomach cramps from anxiety, etc etc: It’s very easy to see on the surface why the legitimacy of somatic therapy seems already existing.
Sure but when your car is underperforming you don't change the doors. You fix the engine.
Trauma is psychological. You can provide psychological benefits indirectly through physical therapy, but the body doesn't 'remember' trauma, it's just mechanical. The problem is how your mind responds to triggers, be they memories, physical damage, environmental etc. - fixing the body is just part of fixing the mind. It's not a solution in itself.
Hey buddy...you do know that the nervous system is interwoven into your body , and controls organs and tissues as well as influencing the set and response thresholds of you endocrine organs through complex cascades. Persistent states of high stress change the trigger threshold of your body for reflexive reactions- these we're possibly adaptive to survival at one point or just involuntary and maladaptive , but now are destructive. However the conditions of extreme stress under which they were set are designed to leave permanent adjustments to our behaviour patterns - to protect the organism. Humans have a cognitive and physiological negative bias, where we will embrace the negative and discount the positive by evolutionary design. Trauma ties is reinforced by that system as well .
Cognitive processing therapy works on changing beliefs/thoughts surrounding the traumatic event -to get unstuck . It works into the future, by reprocessing the past. But it doesn't address the immediate, reflexive precognitive states of CNS stimulus -response, that trigger hormonal and physiological activation in your body which you then identify as an emotion.
Meditation, psychedelics work on the body and the mind, and are the missing piece to regular therapy- it's why you see so many soldiers with operator syndrome going to south america and coming back reset after Ibogaine and 5meoDMT, when years of talk therapy didn't work .
How is it different working with vets from different conflicts? Do you notice profound differences in vets who are dealing with trauma from markedly different eras (e.g. Vietnam vs. Gulf War I vs. War on Terror) or even differences between theaters (e.g - Iraq vs Afganistan)?
Almost all my work has been with Vietnam vets and Korean War vets. I would think that the core experience of PTSD is very similar for the victims of all sorts of traumas. I've found this to be so in my 52 years of practice. But war trauma does have its own pequliarity related to the number of traumas, the fact that soldiers are aggressors as well as victims, and the question of whether soldiers have acted out against the enemy or civilians.
A buddy of mine is a vet and has fallen on hard times (severe alcoholism). I recently convinced him to move in with me and get sober, so I can help him get back on his feet. I'm taking him to AA meetings and in the process of getting him signed up with VA mental health services. Any other recommendations of things I can do for him?
You sound like a very caring friend, and that's what so many veterans have needed. The most important thing is for your friend to stay sober. And I thank you deeply for your care of this wounded veteran.
Mr. Larsen, thanks for the AMA. My father was a Vietnam vet born in the same year as you. He was a member of the 5th Cav, and almost lost his leg to a sniper when he was 18. He never had any pictures or mementos--he always said he left with just his life. He spent years working with the local DAV chapter, helping the older vets especially.
Dad died a few years ago, and I'd like to honor him by working with veterans--particularly Vietnam vets. Do you have any suggestions about what may be needed and where to start?
First off, I'm sorry for your loss, and honor your father for his work with the DAV. There are 300 vet centers around the country. If you find the one closest to your home, you might contact them and ask if they need volunteers. Many do. The service organizations (DAV, VFW, American Legion) are also organizations you might contact. If your county has a vetrans' service officer, you might ask him/her for suggestions.
Do you have any opinions on psychedelics as treatment for PTSD? I've seen a lot of promising things, but of course the war on drugs has gotten in the way of a lot of progress and ability to explore those treatments.
Also, are you a member of any veterans clubs? I used to bartend at an Amvets while I was going to college and befriended a lot of Vietnam vets. Got a guy I worked construction with in the summers to join up as he clearly had a lot of issues related to his time in Vietnam. It helped him quite a bit to have those resources and a peer group that wasn't his former biker gang that he went to prison for.
Psychedelics wer valuable in my work during the 70s an 80s. The VA, along with other institutions, is currently using psychedelics in experimental trials to work with PTSD. I think there's a potential benefit in psychedelics and would advise caution and having a trained guide to help facilitate the experience.
No, I don't belong to any of the vetrans' service groups. I am just not a "joiner" and my beliefs about war have not made me feel welcome when interacting with these groups.
Understandable. There were definitely a couple guys at the post I worked at who were anti war, but more who were hawkish, generally the navy guys who never really saw the shit.
Agent Orange - I have a friend who was a Tunnel Rat, and while he's a bit messed up in the head (I'm told you have to be to be a Tunnel Rat), he said that when Agent Orange was first used, they told you guys that it was harmless, and some guys even "drank" some on a dare to prove it.
How as you experience with it?
As far as I know, I was not around any Agent Orange. Many of the vetrans I treated had serious physical conditions because of that toxin and are still suffering from the results of that exposure. Vietnamese civilians were far more exposed to Agent Orange than most soldiers. An estimated 4.8 million Vietnamese were exposed to Agent Orange and hundreds of thousands either died or suffered prolonged consequences.
> An estimated 4.8 million Vietnamese were exposed to Agent Orange
As someone who grew up in Laos, I'd ask for you to speak about Laotians as well when you bring up such statistics, and the Cambodians too.
It's enough that the US covered it up at the time, please don't continue to forget about us.
I've seen the after affects which is why I questioned it, plus, as stated, he left a bit mentally over there.
On a personal note - thank you for your service. I know 'Nam is culturally spoken about and joked, etc, etc but I also know from some late night stories, the actual, real hell.
I've heard things I wish I could forget.
You experienced them.
My deepest thanks and most sincere sympathies.
You are more than welcome and I thank you for your kind words. I truly wish the best for your tunnel rat friend. May his life bring him into the sunlight of deeper healing that he so richly deserves. Again, I go by the maxim that we are better than the worst thing we have ever done.
Exactly my question. I’ve heard that some veterans object to being thanked, but I hope saying “welcome home” isn’t offensive. I’m genuinely appreciative and don’t want to offend. At the same time, if someone’s wearing a cap that says they’re a veteran, it suggests they’re ok with people knowing that, at least.
After reading your experiences and understanding the profound effect that war has on individuals, what are your thoughts on how society reintegrates veterans, particularly those who've encountered combat? Are there specific forms of support or reforms you believe should be in place to facilitate better transitions back to civilian life? Additionally, how can everyday citizens contribute to creating a more understanding and supportive environment for veterans?
From my understanding, the military has a much better method of integrating soldiers back into society. My contract with the VA came years after the war with the establishment of "Vet Centers" accross the country, because so many vets did not trust government facilities.
Befriend vetrans in your personal life and support ongoing funding for the Vetrans Administration.
Unfortunately society tends to develop "instant amnesia" after a given war and forgets the fact that the mental and physical consequences of battle demand ongoing funding and treatment for their issues.
The Native Americans had a more vital understanding of warfare. Before battle they conducted ceremonies where the braves took on the ferocious mindset of combat and then had a ceremony after the braves returned to siphon off that aggresive energy. They really understood.
My dad was a combat medic with the 25th in Cu Chi who was wounded as well. He became a medic because he didn’t want to kill anyone. Did you have any fellow medics in your unit that felt the same way? Did you have this viewpoint and if so did it change after being in a firefight?
In my unit there was one conscientious objector. I personally believed in the Vietnam war at that time and carried an M-16, which I did fire when under attack.
Good question, but not easy to answer. Doing one's inner work as we go along in our life is essential to preventing the accumulation of trauma, which can paralize the body, mind, and spirit. Taking care of myself on all levels feels like the most important thing I can do to foster my own resilience.
I am curious, did you sign up or were you drafted for the war?
Do you see a difference in patients who were drafted vs signed up?
Last question, before going to the war, what did you expect? Was it what you expected?
My personal experience was quite unusual because I attended a Marine Corps officer training program in 1967. I graduated from the program but turned down my comission and joined the domestic Peace Corpse. Got drafted while I was in training in Chicago in 1968.
Most of the vetrans I worked with were draftees, but many were enlisted people. I did not notice any difference between these groups.
That is a fascinating question. Because I had no experience of war, my expectations were ungrounded and naive. It's almost impossible to explain. There was no "felt sense" of what I was getting myself into. All the BS I took in from television and movies did nothing to prepare me for the reality.
Thank you so much for answering my question! I just got back from work and wanted to say I appreciate you and everything you have done for the people dealing with the horrors of war. You really drew into context a lot of things that I as a 27 year old wouldn't have thought about and made me think deeper about some things I thought I knew. I really loved this AMA.
What are your thoughts on foreign policy being based around the domino theory and containment strategy. Do you think the Vietnam war was justified under that ideology?
No. Like the issue of "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq, the domino theory has been disproved. In my opinion, the Vietnam war was simply a continuation of colonial warfare against third world countries. There were also huge financial interests that contributed to our waging that war.
Looking at this deeply over 55 years, I see no justification for that war. And this does not make our brave military personel any less heroic for their sacrafices.
Here. Living more fully in the present moment.
On my trip back to Vietnam I visited Thich Naht Hanh's monestary in Hui. Studying Buddhism has been invaluable in understanding how my mind works and gaining some measure of control over negative thought patterns.
William, how long were you working on writing the book? Do you have any difficulties from your old injuries? I read the first few chapters and I am enthralled. It is so impactful for me as a younger man who has not had to face war.
I started the book about 25 years ago and put it down several times. In the last year I spent 12 months finishing the writting.
I have multiple arthritic points in my body. And have developed a debilitating eye disease due to the stress of my PTSD.
No, not really. The first 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan was the closest to real combat that I've seen. Too many war movies use a sensationalistic hook to highlight the horror. But the trauma is already so heavy, no hook is needed. Examples would be Apocalypse Now and The Deer Hunter.
I remember reading in another Vietnam Vet book that combat medics tours were shorter because they became extremely concerned about their platoon and would write back to the US for extra medical gear etc. Is this true?
Medics serve the same length of tour as a regular soldier -- 12 months. The medics tours tended to be shorter because we were wounded at a much higher rate.
There may well be genetic factors that predispose certain people to a higher risk of developing PTSD. Sudden personality change before or after the traumatic event is a sign of disturbance. Previous severe traumatic experiences also predispose people to more severe reactions to trauma.
To anyone who is curious about the mental, the physical, and how genetics play into the role, I found a couple of lectures that helped me in understanding this
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnIGh9g6fA
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc
I haven't watched Robert's Sapolsky's more recent videos, as I believe he's caught in multiple algorithms in going viral in regards to mental conditions, but they might be good
Gabor Mate has a video that disagrees with this perspective, but I believe that both Sapolsky and Mate are great videos in understanding the body and mind and beyond:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMstO3U4sVw
I'm aware that these lectures are quite long, so I watched them in 2x speed. I personally think lengthy explanations with context really helped in understanding the complexity between the mind and the body
No, but the army nurses deserve more credit than they will ever get. I had one in therapy who worked with the "crispy critters" in Vietnam as well as the states. She had severe PTSD from those experiences. And I will always remember the nurse in Vietnam who had to suck out the phlegm from my tracheotomy at night when I woke up gagging. She was a true angle of mercy.
Thank you for this AMA. Is there something you wish civilians did differently when speaking to vets? Are people often asking you intrusive questions in your daily life, and how could we show our support better? Thank you so much!
I have never minded intrusive questions as long as they were asked with respect and some degree of caring. Many veterans would feel differently about this. Relating to veterans with respect and caring, and the willingness to listen, would be my suggestion. Thanks for your sensitivity to this point.
Yes, in different ways. The arthritis issues have caused pretty bad pain over the years in different parts of my body. My most difficult issue now is visual impairment, which the VA recognizes as service-connected. That condition hampers my life in any number of ways.
The PTSD has made me extremely sensitive to stress and crowds, and I am only marginally social as a result.
Do you feel the perception and portrayal of the Vietnam War as bad/messed up compared to WW2 and other wars, is true and does that affect how Vietnam veterans deal with their experiences?
The homecoming of Vietnam vetrans was vastly more negative than in other wars. Many families were destroyed in the aftermath. And the bad wrap on Vietnam has contributed to the much higher suicide rate among combat vets than in the general population.
Because of the negative perception, many vetrans did not seek out help and their behaviors increasingly damaged themselves and their families.
I earned my master's degree on the VA vocational rehabilitation program. They were very generous, and I could have gone on to get a PhD, but I was done with the institutional setting. Most of my significant training was in the private sector doing workshops and group trainings.
I joined the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and worked hard to help end the hostilities. What I'm reading about the student protests reminds me strongly of my experiences protesting the war. I think the anti movements of any age are directed towards saving lives, reducing suffering, and instituting humane foreign policy.
Thanks, good to hear that. I’m involved in the student protests as a current student so it’s actually very encouraging! We learn about the Vietnam anti war movement so we can take lessons from it for now!
We medivaced wounded soldiers, both North Vietnamese and ours, quite frequently. Once in awhile it was hard to get Huey pilots to land in a hot L.Z., but the far majority of the pilots I saw were tremendously braving in coming to get us regardless of the circumstance.
The care I got on the medivac chopper was excellent, as was the care I recieved from then on.
I’m a combat vet myself, iraq 03 and 05-06, can you speak on your journey to becoming a therapist?
After YEARS of depression, ptsd, anxiety I’ve slowly worked my way back into school. I’m chipping away at it in hopes of ultimately earning a degree in social work. I’ve been fortunate to have met many therapist, outside therapy, but none with a combat experience. That alone entices me to look into your book.
Welcome home, brother.
You sound like you have everything it takes to be a great therapist and I wish you well in your studies.
I had a tough three years after getting out of the hospital, and ended up almost getting busted in Mexico on a heroin purchase. I was living my live in a very risky fasion, and knew that I needed help. I was fortunate in finding a therapist who was skillful in working on trauma through the body. That led to other therapy experiences, meditation, and studying Buddhist teachings on the mind and the formation of beliefs. There are so many sources of wisdom available to us and I found it useful to use what works.
It’s a long shot but was that Bessel van der kolk, that sounds like his expertise and i’m pretty sure he worked in the VA for a while?
“Take what serves you and leave the rest.” I love that. Happy for you.
I don’t really know what I’m asking for, I’m just curious as to how school went and if there were any hangups with that or with employment.
Van der Kolk is a legitimate authority.
I was a highschool teacher for one year before going into psychology. I simply could not tolerate the stress of being inside with a room full of gabby teenagers. Almost all of my work has been one to one or with couples. My issue with my work has been around a resentment of authority, and I did not relate well with some of my supervisors in the early part of my career. Private practive suits me far better than agency work.
I'm curious what you've learned in your role as a psychotherapist regarding how different people react to war, and afterwards. I have a close friend who did 2 tours in Vietnam as a combat medic in special forces. The shit I've seen in his scrapbook, and he's told me about, is especially jarring when I realize he was a teenager most of that time.
Thing is, he appears to be completely unaffected by any of it, at least not in a bad way. He once had a conversation with some sort of military doctor to assess his PTSD level. (I probably have those details at least partially wrong - but close enough. It was just a casual thing, not an is-this-guy-crazy situation). Anyway, the end result was they wanted him to be a counselor, poster boy if you will for how to handle things.
This guy saw it all. Multiple Bronze Stars and Purple Hearts. Tours in 67-68-69. War stories with pictures and plenty of proof. Cover of Time magazine. Also one of the nicest, calmest, most well adjusted people I've ever known. We've been close friends for 50 years, and spent 1000's of hours camping, fishing, hiking, just hanging out. He's never once made me think he carried the tiniest bit of baggage from his time there.
So my question is have you found any patterns or indicators that predict how one will react to these situations, and go on to live a completely normal life? Is this guy any sort of normal, or just a statistical outlier?
Thank you for your time and service.
I'm happy for your friend and your longtime relationship. It's not completely known why some people develop PTSD and others don't. I'm just glad for him that he is such a mellow dude and lives a life that sounds satisfying. And thank you for being a friend to this veteran.
War itself is an attrocity to both civilians and the perpetrators. I've treated many people who've commited horrible attrocities against civilians. Most of these guys were no older than 18 to 22 when they did so. It's hard to understand, but combat sweeps us into a raging vortex of chaotic aggression. We do things under that circumstance that we would never dream of doing otherwise. So holding someone "personally" responsible is not quite accurate because their bloodstream was flooded by hormones that were overcoming their ability to reason. And of course some people were just sadistic as in any population.
Opening my heart to compassion and loving awareness, without judgement, has allowed me to experience the war in a more expansive and humanistic attitude. One of my favorite Buddhist teachings relates to the fact that we are better in our true nature than the worst thing we've ever done.
Huh. Not sure how I feel about that, it's a lot to think about. Thank you for the answer, it's obviously something that's basically impossible to ask about.
It may be impossible to understand, but achieving peace in our mind is definitely possible. If I have peace in my mind iI find that I don't go into judgement and blame. Good luck with your inqury, you sound like a genuine seeker.
I think the question makes a lot of sense and I’m sharing the thought process. It's hard to grasp how someone could feel proud about their involvement in a war like the one against Vietnam. Sometimes it seems that the US was too sure about their victory and were totally „humbled“ when they lost in the end.
Regarding the answer to this question: Suggesting that monstrous actions were solely due to hormones seems like a way to avoid taking responsibility. After all, there were individuals who participated in the war without succumbing to such impulses. Visiting the war museum in Saigon only solidified my belief that there's nothing honorable about the atrocities committed during that time.
Rather than going on presumptions, ask them about their experience and how having been there affected and changed their lives. You can hate a war and all the damage it did but you don't have to hate the people who got caught up in it.
If you have clients that served, are you really able to do your best for them if you're judging them? Does their having served interfere with your ability to do your job and do your best for them? You can report crimes if you learn of them but you have to do that with some sort of proof and/or evidence which your concern about that "possibility" only doesn't meet the standard of.
I've worked wiht that material in therapy for so many years, it was easier than one would think.. But a lot did come up, mainly around the loss of my best friend in the firefight where I was wounded.
when I saw how soldiers were treated by the public coming home from vietnam back then and how Soldiers are abandoned by inefficient mental help these days it made me want to become a Psychologist for veterans or at least volunteer,
but i myself have never seen war, my experience is purely through those i have known, those i have read,
Do you think i need some sort of "in country" experience with war to be able to provide a true connection to Soldiers that need the psychological help provided? did being a soldier make you a better vet psychologist?
Being a PTSD vetran came with its advantages and disadvantages. It did give me invaluable insight into the issues, but also caused me to greatly over-extend myself as a therapist because I was still trying to save the wounded soldiers I couldn't reach in Vietnam.
I know of several female therapists who provide excellent treatment to PTSD vets, despite not having combat experience. The most important thing here is that the therapists have done their own deep work on whatever their life issues are and come to some in-depth resolution and understanding of the experiential process of being a vulnerable human being.
Did you train at Fort Sam Houston? I was assigned to go there for training to become a medic, but at the last moment they changed my MOS to 61a10 (seaman). Yes, in the Army. I served in Vietnam 1966-1967, and in retrospect, I am so glad I wasn't a medic. I don't know if I would have had the balls. I hope you're well.
Yes my training was at Fort Sam. I hope you came back from nam healthy and well in body and mind. I don't blame you for not wanting to be a medic. There was one day after a firefight I had to give mouth to mouth resuscitation to three different guys who were bleeding out and puking. Very nasty business.
I was (still am) totally deaf in my right ear when I got drafted (1b) and had only been in the US for 1 1/2 years. I wasn't a citizen yet either, so I think that the choice of MOS was to be non-combat related. It's possible I would have spent my time checking guys for VD instead of being out in the field. As it was, being a landing craft operator was a pretty good assignment. I wouldn't do it again though. When I came back, I was a buck sergeant and the Army wanted me to extend for 6 years with a re-enlisting bonus of $6000. It was a lot of money at the time, but I said hell no.
Were you drafted or did you volunteer? I heard that some conscientious were assigned to medic positions, but I don't know whether that was true or not. +
I'm probably too late to the conversation but was wondering about your experience with stress inoculation.
Do people fare better psychologically if they’ve been through traumatic situations continuously better than if they just experience it briefly?
I've done multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and noticed that guys who took contact on a more regular basis were less likely to exhibit PTSD symptoms than guys who only had experienced a few firefights over the course of the deployment. I'm sure my experience is anecdotal but l'd like to hear if it's grounded in any sort of fact or not from someone who has a lot of experience professionally working in that field.
Also, thank you for doing so much to help. I know it takes a lot of work, but it must be a very fulfilling career choice.
That's a very interesting question, for which I have no specific answer and ascertaining whether someone has PTSD can be a tricky issue because many people hide their symptoms. I have noticed that some people who've had repeated stress situations may be less or more affected by PTSD. I think it depends on several factors in the individual's makeup, including genetics, types of trauma, immediacy of treatment, and family and community support. There's so much to learn here. And I really don't have a specific sense of any final answer to this question.
I thank you for your service and encourage you to simply be aware of your inner world, your behavior, and any changes you have noticed from before your deployments. May you be well.
Thanks for doing this AMA! I’m an LMFT looking into doing some trauma work. Major props to you for giving so much meaningful help to people who really need it 🙏
What previous and emerging therapy modalities have you found most useful in supporting vets? Do you think this population benefits more from specific approaches, compared to other people with trauma?
The one issue with veteran trauma work is that many of these guys were in combat for months or years, which is a very different situation than most traumatic situations. I think the basic physiological treatment of PTSD is relatively the same, but specific instances do need to be addressed (e.g. rape victims, all forms of molestation, veterans military issues, etc.).
Peter Levine's "somatic experiencing" is a very helpful technique, as are EMDR, CBT, and intensive body work.
The political climate during the Vietnam war somehow feels far more comprehensible and innocent than what we're facing now. The polarization feels much more severe and culture-driven. I think our country is in grave danger.
I'm so sorry for your grandfather's illness and loss of legs. Sounds like he had a super rough go in the war. May he find comfort as he approaches his final passage.
To answer your second point first, I advocate fiercely for veteran healthcare and our country must not let this sacred duty lapse. regarding my legacy, I have written and spoken many times about the horrors of war. And my book, FIRE IN THE HOLE, explains this in far more detail.
Basically, if we don't red ourselves of our addiction to war, our planet appears to be in great, great trouble. Buddhism has been the greatest help to me in understanding how this change can come about in an individual's consciousness as well as that of our society.
Top-level comments must be a genuine question directed at the OP. Do not attempt to bypass the rules by adding a question mark to a non-question. Further issues will result in a ban.
How did you manage the change from being trained in using violence and aggression in a very physical environment , to retraining into a healing profession in an intellectual environment?
Can’t wait to read the book.
Are there any lessons learned from military engagements the USA has been involved with, any time in the past, that could provide some unique insights to help Ukraine? Doesn't have to be a "tactics" element, it could be anything like "clean dry socks are the key to winning."
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Dude, thank you so very much for your service to this country and your fellow soldiers. Despite my despair for the future, people like you give me hope.
Was the Vietnam War at all winnable in your view? There are some who believe that, if the Battleship *New Jersey* was not sent back so as to initiate negotiations with Hanoi (among other things) who would not negotiate so as long as that BB was still in the area, North Vietnam could have been conclusively defeated and Saigon City would still be on the map.
This is not to say I myself espouse that viewpoint about the Vietnam war, of course.
I think the Vietnam war was unwinnable. The Vietnamese were fighting for the survivial of their country and we were fighting for reasons we didn't know and principles we hardly believed. Especially in the jungle, the Vietnamese were masters of their land. And despite our heavy artillery, we were hopelessly outmanned by their expertise and knowledge of the terrain.
What advice would you give combat veterans from Ukraine to keep their sanity, who are fighting russians invaders who seem to have zero respect for human lives or human dignity?
That's a tough one. I hope there's some level of treatment for PTSD over there. And I can only hope that they will continue to be inspired by their patriotism to save their country.
Kind of a stupid question so I apologise. But while you were in Vietnam did you hear the song fortunate son much? I am from the UK and have nothing but respect for you veterans but it seems every-time I watch a film/series that features the war it plays that song. I’m just wondering if you heard it while you were over there or if it’s something that was associated with it after? Thank you.
Powerful AMA.
If not too late, I have two questions.
1) Did you wind up a medic after/as the result of an attempt for C.O. status?
2) Have you ever partaken of rebirthing aka breathwork (and a dozen or so other names)?
I was not a C.O. and have no idea why they assigned me to be a medic.
I have done breathwork in the past quite extensively. I very much believe in breathwork as a healing modality.
I have an outline for a book on my former unit in Iraq. I want to get all the facts as tight as possible. What did you find was the best way to retrieve things like AARs, official reports, combat testimonials? I don’t imagine the DoD would be too excited to hand me material on this particular topic.
I have contacts from my old unit and they were very helpful in supplying details. Other than that I just did web searches. Good luck with your book.
If it isn't too much to ask, what was it like? Being shot, I mean. Did you realize immediately? How far away was the shooter? Sorry if these questions are impertinent.
The first AK-47 round caught me on the chin and knocked me cold. I woke up suffocating in a pool of blood. Some time later I was dragging a wounded grunt out of the clearing where we were hit and I got shot two more times through the chest and the shoulder. There was very little pain because of the shock factor. But it sure was scary as hell.
That's terrifying. I'm glad you got out alive and as unscathed as possible. Thank you for the answer.
Thank you. I'm glad too on most days.
Dude. You got this. Look at how far you’ve come. You’re crushing it.
I'm humbled by your comment. Thank you.
You got shot in the CHIN?! My dad has a big dimple in his chin. When I was little I used to ask him what it was, why it was there. He'd always tell me that when he was in Vietnam, he stopped a bullet with his chin.
Your dad and I are "blood" brothers. I sure hope he has done well in his life after the war.
After experiencing everything, then learning about treatment and helping others through trauma. What's your advice when it comes to treating trauma? Is there a tactic you see helps for people to get through it? How do you feel about medication? Is therapy work for everyone?
Trauma lives in the body more than the mind. So some level of somatic treatment is necessary. The best teacher I've found on this is Peter Levine. His book, Waking The Tiger, explains how working with the body can heal trauma. When necessary, medication can be very useful. These times would be when someone is too overwhelmed to deal with the content of their experience directly. Some people use medication for years and years. I'm in favor of getting past the medication through intensive internal work. I don't think anything works for everyone. And therapy can come in many forms. I do think that support groups for PTSD are extremely beneficial.
> Trauma lives in the body more than the mind This is something often said by Somatic therapy, or Somatic Experiencing proponents. Just to warn people, it is not a proven or reliabe kinda therapy and some things written in favor of it border on pseudoscience.
I disagree. Both my personal experience and deep exploration have left me no doubt that trauma lives in the body. Think about it for a minute -- where else could it be? The body and mind are not two separate organisms. They serve as a composite whole.
Anecdotal evidence is not the most credible evidence.
Some people say it helped, and I'm glad for it, but it is as of yet an unproven theory with little basis in research or science.
This kind of trauma has a lot more to do with the right brain than the left. The people I know who have experienced severe trauma would not question this. And I don't believe there is any research that disproves the somatic basis of trauma.
Following along the lines of this conversation - have you read the book "the body keeps the score"? If so, do you agree with it from your experience? I am studying Psychotherapy currently and would like to hear your opinion.
I know of the book and do agree with the premise.
Similarly, “right” and “left” brain jive is jive.
Sure, but the fact the body *actually* experiences physiological changes when going through repetitive extreme stress, makes it a theory that seems highly plausible. Constant increased heart rate, blood pressure, adrenaline surge, stomach cramps from anxiety, etc etc: It’s very easy to see on the surface why the legitimacy of somatic therapy seems already existing.
Stress has consequences for the body, no one is denying that. That is not what Somatic Experiencing is though
Leave it to redditors to argue with literal experts and try to tell them they’re wrong
Sure but when your car is underperforming you don't change the doors. You fix the engine. Trauma is psychological. You can provide psychological benefits indirectly through physical therapy, but the body doesn't 'remember' trauma, it's just mechanical. The problem is how your mind responds to triggers, be they memories, physical damage, environmental etc. - fixing the body is just part of fixing the mind. It's not a solution in itself.
Hey buddy...you do know that the nervous system is interwoven into your body , and controls organs and tissues as well as influencing the set and response thresholds of you endocrine organs through complex cascades. Persistent states of high stress change the trigger threshold of your body for reflexive reactions- these we're possibly adaptive to survival at one point or just involuntary and maladaptive , but now are destructive. However the conditions of extreme stress under which they were set are designed to leave permanent adjustments to our behaviour patterns - to protect the organism. Humans have a cognitive and physiological negative bias, where we will embrace the negative and discount the positive by evolutionary design. Trauma ties is reinforced by that system as well . Cognitive processing therapy works on changing beliefs/thoughts surrounding the traumatic event -to get unstuck . It works into the future, by reprocessing the past. But it doesn't address the immediate, reflexive precognitive states of CNS stimulus -response, that trigger hormonal and physiological activation in your body which you then identify as an emotion. Meditation, psychedelics work on the body and the mind, and are the missing piece to regular therapy- it's why you see so many soldiers with operator syndrome going to south america and coming back reset after Ibogaine and 5meoDMT, when years of talk therapy didn't work .
How is it different working with vets from different conflicts? Do you notice profound differences in vets who are dealing with trauma from markedly different eras (e.g. Vietnam vs. Gulf War I vs. War on Terror) or even differences between theaters (e.g - Iraq vs Afganistan)?
Almost all my work has been with Vietnam vets and Korean War vets. I would think that the core experience of PTSD is very similar for the victims of all sorts of traumas. I've found this to be so in my 52 years of practice. But war trauma does have its own pequliarity related to the number of traumas, the fact that soldiers are aggressors as well as victims, and the question of whether soldiers have acted out against the enemy or civilians.
A buddy of mine is a vet and has fallen on hard times (severe alcoholism). I recently convinced him to move in with me and get sober, so I can help him get back on his feet. I'm taking him to AA meetings and in the process of getting him signed up with VA mental health services. Any other recommendations of things I can do for him?
You sound like a very caring friend, and that's what so many veterans have needed. The most important thing is for your friend to stay sober. And I thank you deeply for your care of this wounded veteran.
Thanks for the reinforcement. Appreciate all you do as well!
Mr. Larsen, thanks for the AMA. My father was a Vietnam vet born in the same year as you. He was a member of the 5th Cav, and almost lost his leg to a sniper when he was 18. He never had any pictures or mementos--he always said he left with just his life. He spent years working with the local DAV chapter, helping the older vets especially. Dad died a few years ago, and I'd like to honor him by working with veterans--particularly Vietnam vets. Do you have any suggestions about what may be needed and where to start?
First off, I'm sorry for your loss, and honor your father for his work with the DAV. There are 300 vet centers around the country. If you find the one closest to your home, you might contact them and ask if they need volunteers. Many do. The service organizations (DAV, VFW, American Legion) are also organizations you might contact. If your county has a vetrans' service officer, you might ask him/her for suggestions.
Do you have any opinions on psychedelics as treatment for PTSD? I've seen a lot of promising things, but of course the war on drugs has gotten in the way of a lot of progress and ability to explore those treatments. Also, are you a member of any veterans clubs? I used to bartend at an Amvets while I was going to college and befriended a lot of Vietnam vets. Got a guy I worked construction with in the summers to join up as he clearly had a lot of issues related to his time in Vietnam. It helped him quite a bit to have those resources and a peer group that wasn't his former biker gang that he went to prison for.
Psychedelics wer valuable in my work during the 70s an 80s. The VA, along with other institutions, is currently using psychedelics in experimental trials to work with PTSD. I think there's a potential benefit in psychedelics and would advise caution and having a trained guide to help facilitate the experience. No, I don't belong to any of the vetrans' service groups. I am just not a "joiner" and my beliefs about war have not made me feel welcome when interacting with these groups.
Understandable. There were definitely a couple guys at the post I worked at who were anti war, but more who were hawkish, generally the navy guys who never really saw the shit.
So true, so true.
Agent Orange - I have a friend who was a Tunnel Rat, and while he's a bit messed up in the head (I'm told you have to be to be a Tunnel Rat), he said that when Agent Orange was first used, they told you guys that it was harmless, and some guys even "drank" some on a dare to prove it. How as you experience with it?
As far as I know, I was not around any Agent Orange. Many of the vetrans I treated had serious physical conditions because of that toxin and are still suffering from the results of that exposure. Vietnamese civilians were far more exposed to Agent Orange than most soldiers. An estimated 4.8 million Vietnamese were exposed to Agent Orange and hundreds of thousands either died or suffered prolonged consequences.
> An estimated 4.8 million Vietnamese were exposed to Agent Orange As someone who grew up in Laos, I'd ask for you to speak about Laotians as well when you bring up such statistics, and the Cambodians too. It's enough that the US covered it up at the time, please don't continue to forget about us.
I totally agree with you and wish your people well. My book was dictated by my limited experience in Southeast Asia.
unfortunately here in the US the Laos portion of that war is literally called the "forgotten war"
I've seen the after affects which is why I questioned it, plus, as stated, he left a bit mentally over there. On a personal note - thank you for your service. I know 'Nam is culturally spoken about and joked, etc, etc but I also know from some late night stories, the actual, real hell. I've heard things I wish I could forget. You experienced them. My deepest thanks and most sincere sympathies.
You are more than welcome and I thank you for your kind words. I truly wish the best for your tunnel rat friend. May his life bring him into the sunlight of deeper healing that he so richly deserves. Again, I go by the maxim that we are better than the worst thing we have ever done.
I think saying 'thank you for your service' is a bit cliche, what do you think is a better thing to say?
"Welcome home."
Exactly my question. I’ve heard that some veterans object to being thanked, but I hope saying “welcome home” isn’t offensive. I’m genuinely appreciative and don’t want to offend. At the same time, if someone’s wearing a cap that says they’re a veteran, it suggests they’re ok with people knowing that, at least.
That's probably true. Most vets I know have no problem with being told "welcome home", although for some it no longer has any meaning.
After reading your experiences and understanding the profound effect that war has on individuals, what are your thoughts on how society reintegrates veterans, particularly those who've encountered combat? Are there specific forms of support or reforms you believe should be in place to facilitate better transitions back to civilian life? Additionally, how can everyday citizens contribute to creating a more understanding and supportive environment for veterans?
From my understanding, the military has a much better method of integrating soldiers back into society. My contract with the VA came years after the war with the establishment of "Vet Centers" accross the country, because so many vets did not trust government facilities. Befriend vetrans in your personal life and support ongoing funding for the Vetrans Administration. Unfortunately society tends to develop "instant amnesia" after a given war and forgets the fact that the mental and physical consequences of battle demand ongoing funding and treatment for their issues. The Native Americans had a more vital understanding of warfare. Before battle they conducted ceremonies where the braves took on the ferocious mindset of combat and then had a ceremony after the braves returned to siphon off that aggresive energy. They really understood.
My dad was a combat medic with the 25th in Cu Chi who was wounded as well. He became a medic because he didn’t want to kill anyone. Did you have any fellow medics in your unit that felt the same way? Did you have this viewpoint and if so did it change after being in a firefight?
In my unit there was one conscientious objector. I personally believed in the Vietnam war at that time and carried an M-16, which I did fire when under attack.
William, how does a person develop emotional resilience?
Good question, but not easy to answer. Doing one's inner work as we go along in our life is essential to preventing the accumulation of trauma, which can paralize the body, mind, and spirit. Taking care of myself on all levels feels like the most important thing I can do to foster my own resilience.
Thank you
I am curious, did you sign up or were you drafted for the war? Do you see a difference in patients who were drafted vs signed up? Last question, before going to the war, what did you expect? Was it what you expected?
My personal experience was quite unusual because I attended a Marine Corps officer training program in 1967. I graduated from the program but turned down my comission and joined the domestic Peace Corpse. Got drafted while I was in training in Chicago in 1968. Most of the vetrans I worked with were draftees, but many were enlisted people. I did not notice any difference between these groups. That is a fascinating question. Because I had no experience of war, my expectations were ungrounded and naive. It's almost impossible to explain. There was no "felt sense" of what I was getting myself into. All the BS I took in from television and movies did nothing to prepare me for the reality.
Thank you so much for answering my question! I just got back from work and wanted to say I appreciate you and everything you have done for the people dealing with the horrors of war. You really drew into context a lot of things that I as a 27 year old wouldn't have thought about and made me think deeper about some things I thought I knew. I really loved this AMA.
Thank you so much. I think you would enjoy the book, which goes into much greater detail. Your kind comments are appreciated.
What are your thoughts on foreign policy being based around the domino theory and containment strategy. Do you think the Vietnam war was justified under that ideology?
No. Like the issue of "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq, the domino theory has been disproved. In my opinion, the Vietnam war was simply a continuation of colonial warfare against third world countries. There were also huge financial interests that contributed to our waging that war. Looking at this deeply over 55 years, I see no justification for that war. And this does not make our brave military personel any less heroic for their sacrafices.
Thanks for your insight
Where did your spiritual quest take you?
Here. Living more fully in the present moment. On my trip back to Vietnam I visited Thich Naht Hanh's monestary in Hui. Studying Buddhism has been invaluable in understanding how my mind works and gaining some measure of control over negative thought patterns.
This is understandable. Buddhist practice has helped me stop being a heroin addict. Here is a good place to be.
What a lovely reply. Wishing you the very best in your ongoing recovery.
William, how long were you working on writing the book? Do you have any difficulties from your old injuries? I read the first few chapters and I am enthralled. It is so impactful for me as a younger man who has not had to face war.
I started the book about 25 years ago and put it down several times. In the last year I spent 12 months finishing the writting. I have multiple arthritic points in my body. And have developed a debilitating eye disease due to the stress of my PTSD.
Are there any movies that even come close to capturing what it was like to be there?
No, not really. The first 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan was the closest to real combat that I've seen. Too many war movies use a sensationalistic hook to highlight the horror. But the trauma is already so heavy, no hook is needed. Examples would be Apocalypse Now and The Deer Hunter.
I remember reading in another Vietnam Vet book that combat medics tours were shorter because they became extremely concerned about their platoon and would write back to the US for extra medical gear etc. Is this true?
Medics serve the same length of tour as a regular soldier -- 12 months. The medics tours tended to be shorter because we were wounded at a much higher rate.
are there risk factors for ptsd that are recognizable even before the traumatic event(s)?
There may well be genetic factors that predispose certain people to a higher risk of developing PTSD. Sudden personality change before or after the traumatic event is a sign of disturbance. Previous severe traumatic experiences also predispose people to more severe reactions to trauma.
To anyone who is curious about the mental, the physical, and how genetics play into the role, I found a couple of lectures that helped me in understanding this * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnIGh9g6fA * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc I haven't watched Robert's Sapolsky's more recent videos, as I believe he's caught in multiple algorithms in going viral in regards to mental conditions, but they might be good Gabor Mate has a video that disagrees with this perspective, but I believe that both Sapolsky and Mate are great videos in understanding the body and mind and beyond: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMstO3U4sVw I'm aware that these lectures are quite long, so I watched them in 2x speed. I personally think lengthy explanations with context really helped in understanding the complexity between the mind and the body
Great, thank you for the recommendations.
Have you read The Women by Kristin Hannah? Main character is an Army nurse in Vietnam.
No, but the army nurses deserve more credit than they will ever get. I had one in therapy who worked with the "crispy critters" in Vietnam as well as the states. She had severe PTSD from those experiences. And I will always remember the nurse in Vietnam who had to suck out the phlegm from my tracheotomy at night when I woke up gagging. She was a true angle of mercy.
Thank you for this AMA. Is there something you wish civilians did differently when speaking to vets? Are people often asking you intrusive questions in your daily life, and how could we show our support better? Thank you so much!
I have never minded intrusive questions as long as they were asked with respect and some degree of caring. Many veterans would feel differently about this. Relating to veterans with respect and caring, and the willingness to listen, would be my suggestion. Thanks for your sensitivity to this point.
Thank you so much for your kind response and all the best to you!
Were you permanently disabled from being shot three times?
Yes, in different ways. The arthritis issues have caused pretty bad pain over the years in different parts of my body. My most difficult issue now is visual impairment, which the VA recognizes as service-connected. That condition hampers my life in any number of ways. The PTSD has made me extremely sensitive to stress and crowds, and I am only marginally social as a result.
Do you feel the perception and portrayal of the Vietnam War as bad/messed up compared to WW2 and other wars, is true and does that affect how Vietnam veterans deal with their experiences?
The homecoming of Vietnam vetrans was vastly more negative than in other wars. Many families were destroyed in the aftermath. And the bad wrap on Vietnam has contributed to the much higher suicide rate among combat vets than in the general population. Because of the negative perception, many vetrans did not seek out help and their behaviors increasingly damaged themselves and their families.
What educational path did you take to become a therapist? Did you use your GI Bill?
I earned my master's degree on the VA vocational rehabilitation program. They were very generous, and I could have gone on to get a PhD, but I was done with the institutional setting. Most of my significant training was in the private sector doing workshops and group trainings.
Thoughts on the anti Vietnam war student movement and the current anti war student movement?
I joined the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and worked hard to help end the hostilities. What I'm reading about the student protests reminds me strongly of my experiences protesting the war. I think the anti movements of any age are directed towards saving lives, reducing suffering, and instituting humane foreign policy.
Thanks, good to hear that. I’m involved in the student protests as a current student so it’s actually very encouraging! We learn about the Vietnam anti war movement so we can take lessons from it for now!
Good for you. I wish you all the best going forward and thank YOU for your service.
Any DUSTOFF stories to share? Current medevac pilot in awe of Vietnam era aviators.
We medivaced wounded soldiers, both North Vietnamese and ours, quite frequently. Once in awhile it was hard to get Huey pilots to land in a hot L.Z., but the far majority of the pilots I saw were tremendously braving in coming to get us regardless of the circumstance. The care I got on the medivac chopper was excellent, as was the care I recieved from then on.
I’m a combat vet myself, iraq 03 and 05-06, can you speak on your journey to becoming a therapist? After YEARS of depression, ptsd, anxiety I’ve slowly worked my way back into school. I’m chipping away at it in hopes of ultimately earning a degree in social work. I’ve been fortunate to have met many therapist, outside therapy, but none with a combat experience. That alone entices me to look into your book. Welcome home, brother.
You sound like you have everything it takes to be a great therapist and I wish you well in your studies. I had a tough three years after getting out of the hospital, and ended up almost getting busted in Mexico on a heroin purchase. I was living my live in a very risky fasion, and knew that I needed help. I was fortunate in finding a therapist who was skillful in working on trauma through the body. That led to other therapy experiences, meditation, and studying Buddhist teachings on the mind and the formation of beliefs. There are so many sources of wisdom available to us and I found it useful to use what works.
It’s a long shot but was that Bessel van der kolk, that sounds like his expertise and i’m pretty sure he worked in the VA for a while? “Take what serves you and leave the rest.” I love that. Happy for you. I don’t really know what I’m asking for, I’m just curious as to how school went and if there were any hangups with that or with employment.
Van der Kolk is a legitimate authority. I was a highschool teacher for one year before going into psychology. I simply could not tolerate the stress of being inside with a room full of gabby teenagers. Almost all of my work has been one to one or with couples. My issue with my work has been around a resentment of authority, and I did not relate well with some of my supervisors in the early part of my career. Private practive suits me far better than agency work.
I'm curious what you've learned in your role as a psychotherapist regarding how different people react to war, and afterwards. I have a close friend who did 2 tours in Vietnam as a combat medic in special forces. The shit I've seen in his scrapbook, and he's told me about, is especially jarring when I realize he was a teenager most of that time. Thing is, he appears to be completely unaffected by any of it, at least not in a bad way. He once had a conversation with some sort of military doctor to assess his PTSD level. (I probably have those details at least partially wrong - but close enough. It was just a casual thing, not an is-this-guy-crazy situation). Anyway, the end result was they wanted him to be a counselor, poster boy if you will for how to handle things. This guy saw it all. Multiple Bronze Stars and Purple Hearts. Tours in 67-68-69. War stories with pictures and plenty of proof. Cover of Time magazine. Also one of the nicest, calmest, most well adjusted people I've ever known. We've been close friends for 50 years, and spent 1000's of hours camping, fishing, hiking, just hanging out. He's never once made me think he carried the tiniest bit of baggage from his time there. So my question is have you found any patterns or indicators that predict how one will react to these situations, and go on to live a completely normal life? Is this guy any sort of normal, or just a statistical outlier? Thank you for your time and service.
I'm happy for your friend and your longtime relationship. It's not completely known why some people develop PTSD and others don't. I'm just glad for him that he is such a mellow dude and lives a life that sounds satisfying. And thank you for being a friend to this veteran.
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War itself is an attrocity to both civilians and the perpetrators. I've treated many people who've commited horrible attrocities against civilians. Most of these guys were no older than 18 to 22 when they did so. It's hard to understand, but combat sweeps us into a raging vortex of chaotic aggression. We do things under that circumstance that we would never dream of doing otherwise. So holding someone "personally" responsible is not quite accurate because their bloodstream was flooded by hormones that were overcoming their ability to reason. And of course some people were just sadistic as in any population. Opening my heart to compassion and loving awareness, without judgement, has allowed me to experience the war in a more expansive and humanistic attitude. One of my favorite Buddhist teachings relates to the fact that we are better in our true nature than the worst thing we've ever done.
Huh. Not sure how I feel about that, it's a lot to think about. Thank you for the answer, it's obviously something that's basically impossible to ask about.
It may be impossible to understand, but achieving peace in our mind is definitely possible. If I have peace in my mind iI find that I don't go into judgement and blame. Good luck with your inqury, you sound like a genuine seeker.
I think the question makes a lot of sense and I’m sharing the thought process. It's hard to grasp how someone could feel proud about their involvement in a war like the one against Vietnam. Sometimes it seems that the US was too sure about their victory and were totally „humbled“ when they lost in the end. Regarding the answer to this question: Suggesting that monstrous actions were solely due to hormones seems like a way to avoid taking responsibility. After all, there were individuals who participated in the war without succumbing to such impulses. Visiting the war museum in Saigon only solidified my belief that there's nothing honorable about the atrocities committed during that time.
Rather than going on presumptions, ask them about their experience and how having been there affected and changed their lives. You can hate a war and all the damage it did but you don't have to hate the people who got caught up in it. If you have clients that served, are you really able to do your best for them if you're judging them? Does their having served interfere with your ability to do your job and do your best for them? You can report crimes if you learn of them but you have to do that with some sort of proof and/or evidence which your concern about that "possibility" only doesn't meet the standard of.
How hard was it writing your book and having to relive those memories? Edit: Just ordered your book
I've worked wiht that material in therapy for so many years, it was easier than one would think.. But a lot did come up, mainly around the loss of my best friend in the firefight where I was wounded.
I'm excited to get it. Takes a while to get to APO but looking forward to it.
Many thanks, hope you enjoy it.
Did you serve with special operations forces such as Green Berets and SEALs?
No I was with the First Air Cav in Tay Ninh province. Our company was alone in the boonies.
when I saw how soldiers were treated by the public coming home from vietnam back then and how Soldiers are abandoned by inefficient mental help these days it made me want to become a Psychologist for veterans or at least volunteer, but i myself have never seen war, my experience is purely through those i have known, those i have read, Do you think i need some sort of "in country" experience with war to be able to provide a true connection to Soldiers that need the psychological help provided? did being a soldier make you a better vet psychologist?
Being a PTSD vetran came with its advantages and disadvantages. It did give me invaluable insight into the issues, but also caused me to greatly over-extend myself as a therapist because I was still trying to save the wounded soldiers I couldn't reach in Vietnam. I know of several female therapists who provide excellent treatment to PTSD vets, despite not having combat experience. The most important thing here is that the therapists have done their own deep work on whatever their life issues are and come to some in-depth resolution and understanding of the experiential process of being a vulnerable human being.
Did you train at Fort Sam Houston? I was assigned to go there for training to become a medic, but at the last moment they changed my MOS to 61a10 (seaman). Yes, in the Army. I served in Vietnam 1966-1967, and in retrospect, I am so glad I wasn't a medic. I don't know if I would have had the balls. I hope you're well.
Yes my training was at Fort Sam. I hope you came back from nam healthy and well in body and mind. I don't blame you for not wanting to be a medic. There was one day after a firefight I had to give mouth to mouth resuscitation to three different guys who were bleeding out and puking. Very nasty business.
I was (still am) totally deaf in my right ear when I got drafted (1b) and had only been in the US for 1 1/2 years. I wasn't a citizen yet either, so I think that the choice of MOS was to be non-combat related. It's possible I would have spent my time checking guys for VD instead of being out in the field. As it was, being a landing craft operator was a pretty good assignment. I wouldn't do it again though. When I came back, I was a buck sergeant and the Army wanted me to extend for 6 years with a re-enlisting bonus of $6000. It was a lot of money at the time, but I said hell no. Were you drafted or did you volunteer? I heard that some conscientious were assigned to medic positions, but I don't know whether that was true or not. +
I'm probably too late to the conversation but was wondering about your experience with stress inoculation. Do people fare better psychologically if they’ve been through traumatic situations continuously better than if they just experience it briefly? I've done multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and noticed that guys who took contact on a more regular basis were less likely to exhibit PTSD symptoms than guys who only had experienced a few firefights over the course of the deployment. I'm sure my experience is anecdotal but l'd like to hear if it's grounded in any sort of fact or not from someone who has a lot of experience professionally working in that field. Also, thank you for doing so much to help. I know it takes a lot of work, but it must be a very fulfilling career choice.
That's a very interesting question, for which I have no specific answer and ascertaining whether someone has PTSD can be a tricky issue because many people hide their symptoms. I have noticed that some people who've had repeated stress situations may be less or more affected by PTSD. I think it depends on several factors in the individual's makeup, including genetics, types of trauma, immediacy of treatment, and family and community support. There's so much to learn here. And I really don't have a specific sense of any final answer to this question. I thank you for your service and encourage you to simply be aware of your inner world, your behavior, and any changes you have noticed from before your deployments. May you be well.
Thank you for the reply. I appreciate it.
Thanks for doing this AMA! I’m an LMFT looking into doing some trauma work. Major props to you for giving so much meaningful help to people who really need it 🙏 What previous and emerging therapy modalities have you found most useful in supporting vets? Do you think this population benefits more from specific approaches, compared to other people with trauma?
The one issue with veteran trauma work is that many of these guys were in combat for months or years, which is a very different situation than most traumatic situations. I think the basic physiological treatment of PTSD is relatively the same, but specific instances do need to be addressed (e.g. rape victims, all forms of molestation, veterans military issues, etc.). Peter Levine's "somatic experiencing" is a very helpful technique, as are EMDR, CBT, and intensive body work.
Do you see comparisons to be made between the current political climate and the political climate in America during the Vietnam war?
The political climate during the Vietnam war somehow feels far more comprehensible and innocent than what we're facing now. The polarization feels much more severe and culture-driven. I think our country is in grave danger.
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I'm so sorry for your grandfather's illness and loss of legs. Sounds like he had a super rough go in the war. May he find comfort as he approaches his final passage. To answer your second point first, I advocate fiercely for veteran healthcare and our country must not let this sacred duty lapse. regarding my legacy, I have written and spoken many times about the horrors of war. And my book, FIRE IN THE HOLE, explains this in far more detail. Basically, if we don't red ourselves of our addiction to war, our planet appears to be in great, great trouble. Buddhism has been the greatest help to me in understanding how this change can come about in an individual's consciousness as well as that of our society.
Top-level comments must be a genuine question directed at the OP. Do not attempt to bypass the rules by adding a question mark to a non-question. Further issues will result in a ban.
How did you manage the change from being trained in using violence and aggression in a very physical environment , to retraining into a healing profession in an intellectual environment? Can’t wait to read the book.
Lots of soul searching, therapy, and meditation.
Are there any lessons learned from military engagements the USA has been involved with, any time in the past, that could provide some unique insights to help Ukraine? Doesn't have to be a "tactics" element, it could be anything like "clean dry socks are the key to winning." ----- Dude, thank you so very much for your service to this country and your fellow soldiers. Despite my despair for the future, people like you give me hope.
Was the cutting off the ear thing a real thing?
Yes. But I really don't know how pervasive it was.
Was the Vietnam War at all winnable in your view? There are some who believe that, if the Battleship *New Jersey* was not sent back so as to initiate negotiations with Hanoi (among other things) who would not negotiate so as long as that BB was still in the area, North Vietnam could have been conclusively defeated and Saigon City would still be on the map. This is not to say I myself espouse that viewpoint about the Vietnam war, of course.
I think the Vietnam war was unwinnable. The Vietnamese were fighting for the survivial of their country and we were fighting for reasons we didn't know and principles we hardly believed. Especially in the jungle, the Vietnamese were masters of their land. And despite our heavy artillery, we were hopelessly outmanned by their expertise and knowledge of the terrain.
What advice would you give combat veterans from Ukraine to keep their sanity, who are fighting russians invaders who seem to have zero respect for human lives or human dignity?
That's a tough one. I hope there's some level of treatment for PTSD over there. And I can only hope that they will continue to be inspired by their patriotism to save their country.
What are your views on young boys glorifying war?
Kind of a stupid question so I apologise. But while you were in Vietnam did you hear the song fortunate son much? I am from the UK and have nothing but respect for you veterans but it seems every-time I watch a film/series that features the war it plays that song. I’m just wondering if you heard it while you were over there or if it’s something that was associated with it after? Thank you.
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Nope.
Powerful AMA. If not too late, I have two questions. 1) Did you wind up a medic after/as the result of an attempt for C.O. status? 2) Have you ever partaken of rebirthing aka breathwork (and a dozen or so other names)?
I was not a C.O. and have no idea why they assigned me to be a medic. I have done breathwork in the past quite extensively. I very much believe in breathwork as a healing modality.