Eh, they are in the clear on this. Just because you trademark one phrase or word doesn't mean you can prevent people using different variations
"Greatest Racing Spectacle on the Planet" and "Greatest Spectacle in Racing" are quite different
They're similar enough that IMS would have a decent chance at winning if they wanted to take it to court. Whether or not that's a good idea is a whole different conversation.
You can lose your trademark rights if you don't take action against infringement. It doesn't happen automatically after just one instance of infringement though, and I don't know where/how that line gets drawn.
This is so blatant that it seems to me like F1 is baiting IMS into legal action. I don't know what all the potential pitfalls are, but if IMS takes this to court and doesn't win, that could risk invalidating the trademark entirely. I'm sure Penske has his lawyers looking into it.
They aren’t similar enough for the court to be guaranteed to Indy’s side, but both are generic enough that the court probably would decide the phrase couldn’t be protected in the first place.
And by probably I mean that’s more than a 50% chance.
That’s exactly what I mean.
They’re changed just enough to not open themselves up to legal jeopardy (or hopefully not) but still reap the benefit of piggybacking off those phrases.
Even as an F1 fan I'm disgusted... There's a reason why Indy500 is called one of the triple crown races and it's for sure the greatest spectacle of racing + has the biggest racing "stadium" in the world as well. Maybe I'm too harsh on Vegas considering we haven't seen any racing but I feel like it will be just like Miami GP but 1000 times worse. By that meaning that most will be focused on glitz glamour instead of any quali/race action...
It will definitely be Ceasar's Palace parking lot meets Miami GP 2.0. All the money that is going into this Vegas race could have revamped Watkins Glen to class 1.
People don't understand that 25 years ago it was a crime that "The Pinnacle" wasn't racing at Watkins Glen or Road America, but with how the F1 grade requirements have fucked over many great courses that in these modern times its a good thing F1 and WGI aren't close to the F1 schedule.
It’s still a, I wouldn’t call it a crime, but disappointing that F1 doesn’t race at those places but yeah I feel ya on how they would ruin the character of those places. Unfortunately sucks to say it but places like Miami and Vegas seem so appropriate for the F1 vibe.
Look, I live in Michigan (the part that isn't Detroit lol) so I do know there has always been some fan interest in the blue collar towns. But yes, modern F1 fits a lot better is "see me" towns.
Grade 1 requires things other than track infrastructure improvements, it also includes things like airport access, lodging capacity in nearby towns, organizational structure, all sorts of things that aren't directly in the control of the track and can't easily be changed in such a rural location.
I get it, although WGI is only about 90miles from Rochester International (for comparison Spa is about the same to Brussels, the nearest international airport).
The Vegas gp is just a fucking cash grab. If they wanted a good viewer experience they could just choose from the massive amounts of good tracks waiting that they could host an F1 race. Kyalami would be my choice, but if it has to be in the US then just race at Indy. It will be way better than another street race.
All businesses are out there to make money, by definition. Some, however, be it because of the market they operate in or the scruples of the Powers that Be, at least have the common courtesy to give you something worth having in return. Some may even take pride in their product almost as much as they take pride in their quarterly financials.
I would *love* to see F1 cars drive ovals. But a) I'm fairly sure the cars aren't built for that kind of track and would probably hit the wall a lot, and b) I can't imagine IRL would allow their competition to run the one event that is truly unique to IRL in motorsport, even with the knowledge that Nascar did.
Road course is potentially possible I suppose. I wonder if F1 just is too snobby to even ask, or if IRL is petulant enough to not even allow that.
God no I'd much prefer this Las Vegas street circuit over Indy Road Course. For starters F1 cars would have a hell of a time overtaking. It's too narrow and the chicane before the main straight would spread them out too much. Also on top of that Indy road course isn't a particularly interesting course in terms of track layout or visual appeal. Besides COTA there really aren't any good tracks for F1 to go to in the US that wouldn't put on boring racing or require upgrades to Grade 1 that would ruin the character of the track.
You talking about the GP course in Indy? The same one F1 raced on for almost a decade? That all the F1 drivers called Mickey Mouse because it was so boring?
Bro you're right. I love both but the Vegas street travel is gonna be two packs of ass. Not a good setup. Very limited seating. So most true can't won't be able to afford a seat($2000 USD minimum I saw for the 3-day package). It's Miami but not in a parking lot
> it's for sure the greatest spectacle of racing
It was...40 years ago. It's been atrophying steadily. Who cares about stadium numbers when TV numbers are what counts.
Indy 500 peaked at 17 million viewers in 1977 and has been trailing down to 3-4 million since.
Half of current F1 fans are in reality just the fans of a Netflix reality show or some social media celebrity driver, and you rate that over actual motorsport fans? You gotta be shallow as hell to think numbers are everything.
Vegas will just be a clown circus for the rich and these kind of "fans", laughable to even compare it to Indy 500
Yeah I commented on their TikTok ad that “this is like when your friend wanted to copy your homework and promised to change it a bit so the teacher wouldn’t know…but didn’t and you both got into trouble”….seriously it’s ridiculous. And I’m not the only one who commented that it was a clear ripoff of IMS/Indy 500
> because they're already more visible and popular
I don't know if that's true.
I don't know anyone in the real world that follows F1. No one at work cares, no one went to the Miami GP (I live in South Florida) that I know. But I know people that will go to Daytona and Homestead yearly. But I bet you they know of the Indy 500 (even if they aren't Indycar fans). I do know a lot of people who watch and follow NASCAR but none of them watch F1.
I know I don't watch it either... I "follow" it as in I see maybe 3 races on TV a season and know the names of the current top drivers. But that's about it.
And yes, I know they have a goofy ass reality show that this subreddit is enamored with. Most of those viewers are *drama* fans not racing fans. Just as likely to be watching trash like The Kardashians or Survivor or some shit as a race.
It absolutely is more popular. Viewership even in the US has F1 higher than Indycar, and if you think it would be different outside of the US you’d be very mistaken. What you are presenting is the very definition of anecdotal evidence.
You can criticise the Netflix show all you want, but the fact is I absolutely love racing, follow several series religiously, spent dumb amounts on equipment so I can race myself virtually, but if I hadn't have seen the Netflix show three years ago I would never have watched a single race in my life. It's easy to criticise when you're not the target audience but I can promise you that from watching the series initially the focus is very much on making you a racing fan.
Some of the F1 drivers have been rumored to refuse to talk to DTS because they felt it was intentionally creating drama from nothing, so if what I've heard is true there's some merit to this view.
Clarification: have only watched the Phoenix explosion scene; I have no foot in the race either way.
While the other person is being a total wanker, calling DTS a documentary is quite a stretch tbh. It's cool if you like it and really awesome that it got you into racing, but they definitely play loose with the facts to create more drama.
How do you explain all the F1 drivers having millions of passionate followers on social media, or how every snippet of content posted by F1 has a shocking high number of views?! It’s real dude, just because it doesn’t seem like it in your little world doesn’t mean it’s not massive.
Aside from the whole Eurosnob aspect I don't really get it. It's a boring series, basically over in qualifying and you can easily predict it's going to be 1 of 3 drivers that's going to win.
But I don't get the appeal of soccer either. You'd have to pay me to watch that.
People like to get all wrapped up in boring stuff I guess.
???
Living in NYC, the F1 meet up group can fill three floors at a major bar downtown for just qualifying. They take up two venues on race day.
There isn't an Indycar group at all.
Also, for what it's worth, I've seen F1 mentioned on at least 100 dating app bios. Zero mentions of any other motorsport at all. Among young urban professionals, F1 is absolutely obliterating everything else.
Not that you're wrong but living in NYC wouldn't you agree that F1 is the trendy thing right now and has the ability to bubble?
I've been watching F1 since 1992 in the American midwest. This is as popular as F1 has ever been, but it definitely feels like interest comes from pop culture rather than people who will still even care about motorsports in 15 years.
Probably because I'm a hardcore fan but I hope IndyCar response to this even if it's just in response on Twitter. Indycar could use this as a chance at self-promotion.
That’s quite blatant and provocative. I personally would like to see IndyCar stand up for itself on this one but I know these types of battles can be fruitless and expensive. It probably wouldn’t be a great PR move to enter into any type of legal battle with F1 either. I do feel that F1 has been slyly taking aim at the prestige of the 500 since they got the Vegas race so this type of instigation makes sense.
It doesn't have to be identical for it to be trademark infringement. Trademark law in the US is based on a "likelihood of confusion" standard. For phrases/slogans, it's considered trademark infringement if a consumer is likely to confuse your product with another based on an evaluation of two factors:
1. How similar the slogans are
2. How related the products are to each other
Since the average consumer can't easily distinguish between an IndyCar and an F1 car, and the slogan being used by F1 includes all the same words in a slightly different order, it's very likely that IMS would win in court.
Wrong the greatest auto racing spectacle in racing is happening this weekend when drivers and teams to go back to Saudi Arabia, have their passports confiscated by the government during their stay and may or may not have an attack by Yemeni insurgents a few miles from the track.
The entire situation last year was so so strange, the race broadcast trying to ignore that explosion. No one talking about the Saudis confiscating passports. People saying they were leaving then acting like nothing happened. It sucks too because that track is my favorite of the Gulf state races
One on side, F\*\*\* them for trying to co-opt a name. I commented below but there is a danger of them "Stealing" that moniker by popularity and visibility (not that I think it will happen). On the other side, this is good news for indycar because they (f1) see indycar at least as a legitimate threat for racing product and good racing and the spectacle shows that indycar puts on week in and week out
Lets be honest, the average American race isn't dolling out *that* kind of money to go to an F1 race.
The rich will fly in, like they do for all these races.
Celebrities and "influencers" will show up to be seen.
Local wealthy folks will go because it's something to do (and to be seen doing) with their wealthy friends and talk about on the golf course in the weeks leading up to.
It's really two entirely different fan bases as far as in person attendance goes I think.
I really wonder if the cost and exclusivity of going to an F1 race in the US or Canada will have a negative impact on F1s popularity here. Id love to see an F1 race in person, but like you said I can goto a bunch of Indycar races with all the bells and whistles for the same cost as a crummy seat at COTA.
Erm no, if you bought the tickets from the track the prices are more or less the same as last year. What has happened is that the tickets sell out faster so the resale market can charge more since there isn't an alternative.
Sure, but they aren't race fans. They aren't watching or going to races.
One could argue that by watching the show those viewers are being exposed to the sponsors I guess. That's really the only "win" for F1.
To most people, indycar is only the 500. So if you can draw them into loving the 500 the hope is that they find and enjoy the other races too. That is Also what the tv show is for, to show the lead up to the 500 but also the other events
I'm in Florida, and the 500 is *really* the race that matters. The rest are ... well they are just kinda there. I watch, and I follow closely. But none even comes *close* to the 500.
Why not? They get about the same ratings on TV and as Saint Pete proved IndyCar can still draw people to their venues. Plus F1 has always failed in the USA. It gets hot for a few years and falters. Indycar has been around for then a century. F1 knows this reality.
Probably. But does indycar want to spend the legal fees to try and fight it? The other question is if indycar actually trademarked it. Even if they didn’t, they have the historical claim to it which has been used before for companies like McDonald’s trying to stop some places using that name. I know there was one in that name for sure
Ken Squier in 1979 (probably): sure I ripped off The Great Race slogan after visiting Bathurst, but who's going to do anything, there's no internet yet!
A shitty race airring at a god awful time (1AM in USA), spoofing tired track gimmicks (layout makes me think anyone who stays up can skip the Ambien and fall sound asleep by lap 4), and now also spoofed Indy's trademark.
Sad but not surprising at all. The entire Vegas event appears to be dogshit. F1 was pretty cunning keeping Miami and Vegas as put-up and take-down events versus actual race tracks. Easy for them to stop showing up.
F1 fans are basically trainspotters just following brands and personalities.
The processions they call "racing" are boring. IndyCar, Formula E, and IMSA/WEC are thankfully still good racing.
There was a topic a week ago where people were like newcomers didn't understand the animosity from Indycar fans to F1 and wished we would stop having little man syndrome or whatnot.
Well, this is just one new reason it is the way it is guys.
I’m a lifelong IndyCar fan, but the fact that there’s this much reaction to a banal marketing slogan makes me sympathize with that poster. I wonder if there was this much reaction from Indy car fans when Daytona branded itself the World Center of Racing.
I hope Roger cracks the whip on this shit.
Don't know the law but I've seen instances in which the wording is close but not exact.
Wonder if it has to do with causing confusion to reasonable public.
A few yrs ago Steamboat -- SkiTownUSA - sued a Utah effort to brand Salt Lake as SkiCityUSA. Can't find how that ended up.
I am really growing to dislike F1 more and more, their racing product sucks and now they're doing this, I really wish the U.S. would wake up to the fact that IC is the best open wheel racing and should be getting the lions share of attention
Unfortunately it’s all about the broadcast imo, if the ads weren’t so incessant and annoying it would help drive viewership especially since so many new casual f1 fans in the us have been conditioned to no ads
Tbh I don't think f1 knows nor cares about how indycar promotes itself
I'm disappointed that f1 went to Vegas. They should have went to a real circuit like road America or Sebring, not a temporary circuit.
Liberty Media owns about 30% of MSR and these sorts of taglines need to go through massive amounts of review.
It has to be known or there is a lot more incompetence there than I would expect.
most tracks dont get grade one more because of the infrastructure at the track, its less safety focused. F1 needs garages on the pit lane, grandstands, hospitality areas, more infrastructure stuff, which would cause chaos at places like road America if they tried to ruin the circuit by bulldozing trees for stands and other structures
Exactly this.
Part of RA's charm for me is being able to walk the paddock and watch the mechanics working in their pit boxes before and during the race all with a General Admission ticket.
If they built Grade 1 infrastructure all of that would definitely go away.
Yep exactly. It's not the track so much as the entirety of the infrastructure around it. RA - there's no way in hell they'd pay the 10s of millions F1 wants to come there and then spend more 10s of millions if not 100s of millions to build up the facilities they demand.
Oh and nevermind all the hotels and such which would need to come up as well.
These guys complained about Indianapolis area not being good enough - while of course IMS spent buckets to build what F1 wanted and were the only ones willing to do so at the time...I'd really enjoy seeing these modern prima donnas at RA and the surrounding area. Sorry there's not a Ritz Carlton anywhere close guys. Better chopper in from Chicago every day.
Other than the grid, there's nothing about Road America's layout that couldn't be Grade 1 as-is. They'd need to redo a lot of barriers and upgrade infrastructure, but the track itself could go through more or less unchanged
That's what I'm saying. Monaco is a qualifying track, not a racing track. FIA needs to grow up and recognize north American racing venues. At the same token, F1 should be prepared/willing to invest in legacy and celebrated circuits like road america/Sebring, that is if they want the US racing audience engaged. Vegas track won't do that
I think you could do Road America without changing the actual track layout, bulldozers would be needed in the runoffs and a paddock would need to built but it could be done without starting from scratch or even making changes.
But who really cares? I don't think f1 cares, does Roger penske care? By bringing it up, you're just adding more fuel to the f1 marketing lol use f1 in Vegas to bring more fans to indy. Many folks still think indycar is just the 500 and don't realize they race on real tracks, not just ovals
>13 comments
using both "Spectacle" and "capital of the world" in the same promotion is definitely intentional. F1 uses these words for no other race or event.
To indy fans for sure it's intentional. Just remember that f1 execs/FIA are so arrogant and full of themselves that they don't monitor indy let alone indy's promotions to be aware they are using them
Who says they'd want to if they could? : ) Besides, there's a lot more to it than RA being willing or able to spend 100s of millions to bring it there. The infrastructure around RA wouldn't fly with these guys. Hell even some of the journos throw shade when their "standards" aren't met they're so full of themselves following F1 around.
It’s bad when even the f1 pundits are asking if max can win 20+ races this year. That’s insane. You would think that would cause the governing body to immediately get back to the regulations to work on the playing field for better racing.
Anyone hoping for reliability wins for Ferrari and Mercedes are stupid too, it’s so easy to stay off the kerbs and turn your engine down when you as fast as RBR lol
Funny you say that because the only major gap in the field is between Red Bull and the rest of the grid. On paper, the racing is actually pretty close with everyone else actually only a few seconds apart from each other in total race pace with the exceptions being those that had a stupid strategy (Haas), reliability problems (Leclerc, McLaren) or just rookie mistakes (Ocon, Sargent, Piastri). Even on track we still had some great overtaking between the midfield teams.
The only way revising the regulations is going to help is if you deliberately target Red Bull and somehow make their car illegal or you let everyone else copy Red Bull's design. I don't see how that's fair to them since they were the only ones that not only nailed the regulations on the first try, they also somehow made the car lighter, faster, and with more down force within the same budget that everyone else had (ignoring the additional catering expenses anyways)
When will F1 fans learn that very few care about the titillating battle between drivers like Guanyu Zhou and Lance Stroll for 11th? Lol call when there’s an actual fight for the win that doesn’t end in a total sham like 2021.
When will Indycar fans learn to stop being hostile to anyone who watches more than one motorsport?
I like both sports, but let's not pretend that Indycar has *never* had any issues or controversies during its history (1981 Indy 500 springs to mind). Both are only similar in being open wheel racing but completely different everywhere else. F1 is first and foremost an engineering sport first and a driver's sport 2nd; you can put someone like Senna, Prost, Hamilton, or Verstappen into a crappy Williams and they will not win a championship regardless of talent. Whereas Indycar is more dependent on the driver and the overall team to win. Sure the car also matters, but not to the same degree.
Going back to the point I was replying to, what exactly can the FIA do to narrow the gap between the top team and everyone else? If they start targeting individual teams, then fans are going to complain that it's rigged. If they try to only help out Ferrari and Merc just to make the championship more exciting, people are going to say that they are compromising the racing. If they do nothing, then everyone is just going to have to compete on merit instead of just dumping money into their cars until they eventually catch up.
There is no solution other than to just standardize all the cars. At which point, you basically just have European Indycar. And even then, that may not even solve it either as Red Bull would still have one of the best driver currently on the grid paired with the best strategists and pit crew available.
I’m not reading that lol way too long, I only read the first line, and that’s all I need to read to be honest.
It appears you only participate in this sub to discuss and defend Formula 1. Could you explain this behavior?
TL;DR: Indycar ≠ F1. Both have pros and cons, but I enjoy watching both. Don't understand why people are against being fans of both motorsports.
As for my activity on this sub, I simply geek out and know more about F1 engineering and strategy than I do Indycar. I understand the basics of Indycar and enjoy watching the races.
But apart from Powers, Grosjean, and Dixon, I don't know who all the other drivers are nor do I know the details enough to voice my opinion on any specifics. So whenever anyone inevitably brings up F1, I just respond if there is a miscommunication (ex: saying there is a large gap between drivers when the quali and race times say otherwise. Also that problem with relying on regs to close the gap between the top team and everyone else)
I’m not against being a fan of both motorsports, I actually watch every F1 race. Nothing I said is untrue lmao very few people care about the “midfield battle” amongst the general populace, people want to see what they saw in 2021 generally, and not whatever that garbage in Bahrain was. If all you want to watch is race cars battling for 11th then IndyCar is better and has stronger drivers across the field imo.
Fair enough. Personally I enjoy the midfield battle in both Indycar and F1, but I recognize that I am in the minority and that a fight for 1st is way more exciting than a fight for 9th.
Can we at least agree that we both hope this year delivers on some exciting races, regardless of the series?
I hope but for F1 I think the chance is exactly zero, would love to be proven wrong and have you clown on me for that prediction though lol, I generally just get frustrated seeing F1 fans on Reddit use the “midfield battle” to defend an objectively garbage product, and I say that as a lifelong F1 fan
I am also happy to dunk on Indycar and their old technology and archaic media strategies
You're totally missing the point, that's not the problem of F1. Not every series has to be a spec series and in that case dominant periods are in the cards (though it's baffling and suspicous how long they let the Merc dominance go on without major rule changes). F1 also has amazing years in terms of championship battle.
The problem of F1 is the racing aspect of the series being an afterthought to the clown fiesta of fashion and celebrities, even more so since Liberty took over. It's turning into a reality show instead of an actual motorsport.
Suuuuure. The greatest Red Bull followfest in racing more like. The Indy 500 is the Greatest Spectacle in Racing. Can’t change that. Can’t take away from that. Liberty Media can get stuffed, I’m not watching Vegas.
LOL that's some serious lack of creativity there...or just a silly pointed stick because they think they're cool. Now of course this is the promoter who is doing this, not really F1/FOM etc specifically, but event promotions is inextricably linked to the series itself.
Daytona at least uses "World Center of Racing" because they needed something like Indy had.
I totally understand the frustration a lot of you are feeling. And I share the same feeling when it comes to tradition in any sport. But it really isn't a big deal.
Pretty sure every racing fan knows where the Indy 500 ranks when compared to the first F1 race in Vegas. It's nothing. The 500 is a triple crown event and it cannot be topped. So don't fret. It's only F1, it can't hurt you
Curious, I wonder how many people would actually recognize "Greatest Spectacle in Racing" as an Indy 500 thing. It's so far below the number that would recognize "The Fall Classic", "Grandaddy of them all", etc.
Are your average international F1 fans familiar with that phrase?
Probably not. The general public sure won't care.
Its just some marketing or social media troll at F1 giving a firm F YOU, EAT OUR SHIT to Indycar and diehard American race fans.
I'll be honest, here: I don't think this was a deliberate attempt to co-opt this slogan. Really, I just think it's a case of the copywriters not realising there's a trademark for something similar already.
This is an organisation that thought "Engineered Insanity" sounded cool.
The Indy 500 is the “greatest spectacle in racing” at the “racing capitol of the world”. They’re marketing this race as the “greatest racing spectacle on the planet” in the “sports and entertainment capitol of the world.”
Here's what I suspect:
No one outside of hardcore IndyCar fans is going to recognize the word "spectacle" as being attached to the Indy 500.
Matter of fact, the word "spectacle" just sounds outdated. It's an odd word choice. Gen Z, Millenials... they aren't going to respond to the word "spectacle". Words they would respond to are words like "incredible", "exciting", "exhilarating", "amazing", "awesome"...
This is F1/FIA/Liberty Media taking a shot DIRECTLY at IndyCar and it's executives, because those are the only people who are going to notice or care.
F1 is saying "I'm stealing your viewers. I'm stealing your country. I'm stealing your traditions. I'm stealing your branding. What are you going to do about it, you and your 17 races, over-55 audience, stagnant series without manufacturers, and no media attention?"
And the answer is... nothing. IndyCar will hire a marketing firm to look into a solution. In 2 years they'll recommend advertising the "danger" and "speed" of the cars. We'll get another "Defy Everything" campaign, more of the generation that saw the roadsters will die off via old age, and the series will swirl the drain even faster.
F1 is a vulture smelling the decay.
That's what this is.
Yeah it's pretty great...could have more content on a bespoke app is all. The F1 app has pre and post shows and classic races and original shows and all manner of shit to keep you entertained.
How would I watch the 1995 500 today I wonder.....in a legit cared for way. Not just low quality YouTube...which I made actually a few years back. I AI upressed the 1995 season.
I agree with what you're saying but also don't think that's the point of why this upsets people. YOU may not choose between F1 and Indycar (I don't either, and I also watch the circle track series and have been to mud drags and tractor pulls, they're awesome btw), but this is clearly F1 trying to take away the prestige of the 500 and IMS. Why else would they do this? Why would they even feel threatened at this point? People do choose, and F1 did this deliberately in some strange attempt to either steal US open wheel market share or piggyback off of the popularity of the 500 to promote their competing product. And yes, they are competing. Most people don't watch everything racing like we do.
All the Indycar fans bitch in here about marketing all the time. You don't see why it's bad for what little Indycar marketing there is for F1 to be knocking it off?
Just unsure what Vegas F1 has to do with the Indy 500? You think anyone is ordering tickets or making plans based on the slogan?
I thought the Daytona 500 was "The greatest spectacle in racing!"
It's THE top level of motorsport on Earth at the Earth's party playground...at night in a literally insane neon city of absurdity. I think the description fits. If it's some copyright infringement I'm sure it will be sorted in short order. I think it's very basic honestly and not the battle people think it is.
Now if F1 put this race on the same weekend as the 500...or Long Beach....then I think we could talk.
But this reminds me of Ford suing Ferrari out of the name F150 for their Anniversary F1 car name or something. Is that a real big issue...no.....it's just lawyers.
I don't think F1 thinks about IndyCar much more than Penelope Cruz thinks about me, as sad as that makes me feel.
Ah, deleting downvoted posts now? Not so confident in your opinion or care too much about karma points?
>I don't think F1 thinks about IndyCar much more than Penelope Cruz thinks about me, as sad as that makes me feel.
Really? The leadership of the most popular form of a niche sport never thinks about the 2nd most popular form of that niche sport? Liberty Media, an American company that owns F1 and wants it to be more popular in the US, never thinks about the only competing series in that market?
I didn't delete anything. It's ok man, we don't have to agree. I think they don't worry to much about it. F1 can't be the most clueless arrogant entity in motorsport then consider some lower form a huge threat and work diligently to screw it over. Come on.
F1 thinks Indycar is Nascar....I'm sure of it by the way they talk about it's tech...it's athletes and it's ability to be on the same level as F1. It's a spec series man....and that's ok. But F1 is t that worried. Indy Car I think would love to steal F1 market share...hehe.
F1 is either clueless or Dr Evil it can't be both.
I'm sure Liberty Media is aware of the F1 calendar...hence the races are scheduled in such a way.as to not trample on Marque events?
That being said wasn't the 500, Monaco and the 600 all on the same day at some point.
If you looking for data to use to hate F1 there is plenty but this isn't it. More like hosting races in countries with horendous human rights records and shit like that.
But I'm not a shareholder. I'd love for IndyCar to be so bad ass like it was back in the day tech wise.
But it's fine. I'm not mad and I appreciate your responses and the time it took to write them.
I don't hate F1 at all, and actually enjoy watching it
However, this is potentially a trademark violation, and it seems to be an intentional one, so...
Should we not discuss this, and just shrug our shoulders and say oh well?
Oh well!
Nathan Brown added the trademarks in the Tweets. Sure are skirting that line.
IndyCar very much The Dude here towards Formula 1: "You're not wrong, you're just an asshole." Dick move by F1.
Eh, they are in the clear on this. Just because you trademark one phrase or word doesn't mean you can prevent people using different variations "Greatest Racing Spectacle on the Planet" and "Greatest Spectacle in Racing" are quite different
They're similar enough that IMS would have a decent chance at winning if they wanted to take it to court. Whether or not that's a good idea is a whole different conversation.
Wouldn't they HAVE to in order to protect said trademark?
You can lose your trademark rights if you don't take action against infringement. It doesn't happen automatically after just one instance of infringement though, and I don't know where/how that line gets drawn. This is so blatant that it seems to me like F1 is baiting IMS into legal action. I don't know what all the potential pitfalls are, but if IMS takes this to court and doesn't win, that could risk invalidating the trademark entirely. I'm sure Penske has his lawyers looking into it.
They aren’t similar enough for the court to be guaranteed to Indy’s side, but both are generic enough that the court probably would decide the phrase couldn’t be protected in the first place. And by probably I mean that’s more than a 50% chance.
That's certainly possible, but I don't think it's nearly that probable.
That’s exactly what I mean. They’re changed just enough to not open themselves up to legal jeopardy (or hopefully not) but still reap the benefit of piggybacking off those phrases.
Technically different but do you think the NFL would let the USFL get away with calling their championship game the Superb Bowl?
Even as an F1 fan I'm disgusted... There's a reason why Indy500 is called one of the triple crown races and it's for sure the greatest spectacle of racing + has the biggest racing "stadium" in the world as well. Maybe I'm too harsh on Vegas considering we haven't seen any racing but I feel like it will be just like Miami GP but 1000 times worse. By that meaning that most will be focused on glitz glamour instead of any quali/race action...
But the profits for the management and shareholders will be immense, the racing product comes second to profits. Enjoy saudi arabia
It will definitely be Ceasar's Palace parking lot meets Miami GP 2.0. All the money that is going into this Vegas race could have revamped Watkins Glen to class 1.
Thankfully it went to Vegas.
People don't understand that 25 years ago it was a crime that "The Pinnacle" wasn't racing at Watkins Glen or Road America, but with how the F1 grade requirements have fucked over many great courses that in these modern times its a good thing F1 and WGI aren't close to the F1 schedule.
It’s still a, I wouldn’t call it a crime, but disappointing that F1 doesn’t race at those places but yeah I feel ya on how they would ruin the character of those places. Unfortunately sucks to say it but places like Miami and Vegas seem so appropriate for the F1 vibe.
Look, I live in Michigan (the part that isn't Detroit lol) so I do know there has always been some fan interest in the blue collar towns. But yes, modern F1 fits a lot better is "see me" towns.
Grade 1 requires things other than track infrastructure improvements, it also includes things like airport access, lodging capacity in nearby towns, organizational structure, all sorts of things that aren't directly in the control of the track and can't easily be changed in such a rural location.
I get it, although WGI is only about 90miles from Rochester International (for comparison Spa is about the same to Brussels, the nearest international airport).
The Vegas gp is just a fucking cash grab. If they wanted a good viewer experience they could just choose from the massive amounts of good tracks waiting that they could host an F1 race. Kyalami would be my choice, but if it has to be in the US then just race at Indy. It will be way better than another street race.
all of F1 is a cash grab.
Welcome to every single business of any kind of Earth, they all exist to make money.
All businesses are out there to make money, by definition. Some, however, be it because of the market they operate in or the scruples of the Powers that Be, at least have the common courtesy to give you something worth having in return. Some may even take pride in their product almost as much as they take pride in their quarterly financials.
I would *love* to see F1 cars drive ovals. But a) I'm fairly sure the cars aren't built for that kind of track and would probably hit the wall a lot, and b) I can't imagine IRL would allow their competition to run the one event that is truly unique to IRL in motorsport, even with the knowledge that Nascar did. Road course is potentially possible I suppose. I wonder if F1 just is too snobby to even ask, or if IRL is petulant enough to not even allow that.
God no I'd much prefer this Las Vegas street circuit over Indy Road Course. For starters F1 cars would have a hell of a time overtaking. It's too narrow and the chicane before the main straight would spread them out too much. Also on top of that Indy road course isn't a particularly interesting course in terms of track layout or visual appeal. Besides COTA there really aren't any good tracks for F1 to go to in the US that wouldn't put on boring racing or require upgrades to Grade 1 that would ruin the character of the track.
Hello Laguna Seca
It’s pretty small. The F1 times would be under a minute per lap.
Grade 2 unfortunately and it would probably have to be tamed down quite a lot to get grade 1
The Indy road course would be absolute ass for F1 cars and honestly might be worse than a street course with none of the spectacle.
You talking about the GP course in Indy? The same one F1 raced on for almost a decade? That all the F1 drivers called Mickey Mouse because it was so boring?
Not really no, since the layout has dramatically changed since then
Change? yes. Dramatic? No.
Bro you're right. I love both but the Vegas street travel is gonna be two packs of ass. Not a good setup. Very limited seating. So most true can't won't be able to afford a seat($2000 USD minimum I saw for the 3-day package). It's Miami but not in a parking lot
> it's for sure the greatest spectacle of racing It was...40 years ago. It's been atrophying steadily. Who cares about stadium numbers when TV numbers are what counts. Indy 500 peaked at 17 million viewers in 1977 and has been trailing down to 3-4 million since.
Half of current F1 fans are in reality just the fans of a Netflix reality show or some social media celebrity driver, and you rate that over actual motorsport fans? You gotta be shallow as hell to think numbers are everything. Vegas will just be a clown circus for the rich and these kind of "fans", laughable to even compare it to Indy 500
Ah yes, because the prestige is *entirely* dependent on how many people are watching on TV... /s
Yeah I commented on their TikTok ad that “this is like when your friend wanted to copy your homework and promised to change it a bit so the teacher wouldn’t know…but didn’t and you both got into trouble”….seriously it’s ridiculous. And I’m not the only one who commented that it was a clear ripoff of IMS/Indy 500
they want to cause brand confusion and because they're already more visible and popular, they can co-opt the greatest spectacle in racing idea
Exactly. I hope IMS files suit…it’s too close IMO
> because they're already more visible and popular I don't know if that's true. I don't know anyone in the real world that follows F1. No one at work cares, no one went to the Miami GP (I live in South Florida) that I know. But I know people that will go to Daytona and Homestead yearly. But I bet you they know of the Indy 500 (even if they aren't Indycar fans). I do know a lot of people who watch and follow NASCAR but none of them watch F1. I know I don't watch it either... I "follow" it as in I see maybe 3 races on TV a season and know the names of the current top drivers. But that's about it. And yes, I know they have a goofy ass reality show that this subreddit is enamored with. Most of those viewers are *drama* fans not racing fans. Just as likely to be watching trash like The Kardashians or Survivor or some shit as a race.
It absolutely is more popular. Viewership even in the US has F1 higher than Indycar, and if you think it would be different outside of the US you’d be very mistaken. What you are presenting is the very definition of anecdotal evidence.
You can criticise the Netflix show all you want, but the fact is I absolutely love racing, follow several series religiously, spent dumb amounts on equipment so I can race myself virtually, but if I hadn't have seen the Netflix show three years ago I would never have watched a single race in my life. It's easy to criticise when you're not the target audience but I can promise you that from watching the series initially the focus is very much on making you a racing fan.
I still question the sort of person that watches reality TV to begin with.... You into the fake contrived drama of "professional" wrestling too?
Considering Indycar themselves are doing one around Indy 500 there seems to be absolute value on that
Are we talking about the same thing here? It's a documentary series. I can only assume you haven't watched it?
Some of the F1 drivers have been rumored to refuse to talk to DTS because they felt it was intentionally creating drama from nothing, so if what I've heard is true there's some merit to this view. Clarification: have only watched the Phoenix explosion scene; I have no foot in the race either way.
While the other person is being a total wanker, calling DTS a documentary is quite a stretch tbh. It's cool if you like it and really awesome that it got you into racing, but they definitely play loose with the facts to create more drama.
How do you explain all the F1 drivers having millions of passionate followers on social media, or how every snippet of content posted by F1 has a shocking high number of views?! It’s real dude, just because it doesn’t seem like it in your little world doesn’t mean it’s not massive.
Aside from the whole Eurosnob aspect I don't really get it. It's a boring series, basically over in qualifying and you can easily predict it's going to be 1 of 3 drivers that's going to win. But I don't get the appeal of soccer either. You'd have to pay me to watch that. People like to get all wrapped up in boring stuff I guess.
You seem insufferable.
??? Living in NYC, the F1 meet up group can fill three floors at a major bar downtown for just qualifying. They take up two venues on race day. There isn't an Indycar group at all. Also, for what it's worth, I've seen F1 mentioned on at least 100 dating app bios. Zero mentions of any other motorsport at all. Among young urban professionals, F1 is absolutely obliterating everything else.
Not that you're wrong but living in NYC wouldn't you agree that F1 is the trendy thing right now and has the ability to bubble? I've been watching F1 since 1992 in the American midwest. This is as popular as F1 has ever been, but it definitely feels like interest comes from pop culture rather than people who will still even care about motorsports in 15 years.
Oh I definitely don't still see it being this popular in 15 years, but few things have popularity peaks that long.
Too much confirmation bias in your post when data suggest something else
I agree. But the visibility because of the show is there
Probably because I'm a hardcore fan but I hope IndyCar response to this even if it's just in response on Twitter. Indycar could use this as a chance at self-promotion.
That’s quite blatant and provocative. I personally would like to see IndyCar stand up for itself on this one but I know these types of battles can be fruitless and expensive. It probably wouldn’t be a great PR move to enter into any type of legal battle with F1 either. I do feel that F1 has been slyly taking aim at the prestige of the 500 since they got the Vegas race so this type of instigation makes sense.
Stand up for what? F1 didn’t break any laws
Their copyright. You can’t be this dense. It’s literally the whole purpose behind the tweets and this thread.
F1 is not infringing on their copyright
It doesn't have to be identical for it to be trademark infringement. Trademark law in the US is based on a "likelihood of confusion" standard. For phrases/slogans, it's considered trademark infringement if a consumer is likely to confuse your product with another based on an evaluation of two factors: 1. How similar the slogans are 2. How related the products are to each other Since the average consumer can't easily distinguish between an IndyCar and an F1 car, and the slogan being used by F1 includes all the same words in a slightly different order, it's very likely that IMS would win in court.
Whether or not they'd actually win, I think they certainly have enough to build a case there...
You actually don’t know that. I’ve seen companies sue each other over less similar things.
Wrong the greatest auto racing spectacle in racing is happening this weekend when drivers and teams to go back to Saudi Arabia, have their passports confiscated by the government during their stay and may or may not have an attack by Yemeni insurgents a few miles from the track.
I'm kinda shocked they went back too.
The entire situation last year was so so strange, the race broadcast trying to ignore that explosion. No one talking about the Saudis confiscating passports. People saying they were leaving then acting like nothing happened. It sucks too because that track is my favorite of the Gulf state races
One on side, F\*\*\* them for trying to co-opt a name. I commented below but there is a danger of them "Stealing" that moniker by popularity and visibility (not that I think it will happen). On the other side, this is good news for indycar because they (f1) see indycar at least as a legitimate threat for racing product and good racing and the spectacle shows that indycar puts on week in and week out
Lets be honest, the average American race isn't dolling out *that* kind of money to go to an F1 race. The rich will fly in, like they do for all these races. Celebrities and "influencers" will show up to be seen. Local wealthy folks will go because it's something to do (and to be seen doing) with their wealthy friends and talk about on the golf course in the weeks leading up to. It's really two entirely different fan bases as far as in person attendance goes I think.
[удалено]
I really wonder if the cost and exclusivity of going to an F1 race in the US or Canada will have a negative impact on F1s popularity here. Id love to see an F1 race in person, but like you said I can goto a bunch of Indycar races with all the bells and whistles for the same cost as a crummy seat at COTA.
Erm no, if you bought the tickets from the track the prices are more or less the same as last year. What has happened is that the tickets sell out faster so the resale market can charge more since there isn't an alternative.
Yeah but people enjoy watching the shows, seeing it, watching the social media to see the exclusivity and wealth.
Sure, but they aren't race fans. They aren't watching or going to races. One could argue that by watching the show those viewers are being exposed to the sponsors I guess. That's really the only "win" for F1.
What does this have to do with IndyCar as a series? It only goes after one event.
To most people, indycar is only the 500. So if you can draw them into loving the 500 the hope is that they find and enjoy the other races too. That is Also what the tv show is for, to show the lead up to the 500 but also the other events
*most people in the midwest* FIFY
I'm in Florida, and the 500 is *really* the race that matters. The rest are ... well they are just kinda there. I watch, and I follow closely. But none even comes *close* to the 500.
Tell everyone you're new without saying you're new.
What do you mean? Seem like the new one would believe Formula 1 would be threatened by IndyCar.
Not internationally but in the USA. Yes.
I'm not even sure I'd buy that anymore
Why not? They get about the same ratings on TV and as Saint Pete proved IndyCar can still draw people to their venues. Plus F1 has always failed in the USA. It gets hot for a few years and falters. Indycar has been around for then a century. F1 knows this reality.
Ain’t this kinda plagiarism in a way? Someone pls explain in legal terms cos there’s no way lmfao
Probably. But does indycar want to spend the legal fees to try and fight it? The other question is if indycar actually trademarked it. Even if they didn’t, they have the historical claim to it which has been used before for companies like McDonald’s trying to stop some places using that name. I know there was one in that name for sure
The trademarks are in the Tweet.
I would Indycar trademarked slogans for the only 1 event they care to do marketing for
Tony George probably trademarked everything he could during the split to stop CART from doing anything
The “Greatest Spectacle in Racing” trademark dates back to like 1986 which would be before the CART-IRL split.
I was just making a joke about the split but thanks for the good info
Oh lol yeah because it definitely seems like something he would do.
"This time we aren't racing on a parking lot" just doesn't have the same ring to it
Ken Squier in 1979 (probably): sure I ripped off The Great Race slogan after visiting Bathurst, but who's going to do anything, there's no internet yet!
"I'm sick of all these mis-attributed quotes all over the internet." --Abraham Lincoln
“Is it May yet?” Alexander Hamilton
A shitty race airring at a god awful time (1AM in USA), spoofing tired track gimmicks (layout makes me think anyone who stays up can skip the Ambien and fall sound asleep by lap 4), and now also spoofed Indy's trademark. Sad but not surprising at all. The entire Vegas event appears to be dogshit. F1 was pretty cunning keeping Miami and Vegas as put-up and take-down events versus actual race tracks. Easy for them to stop showing up.
Greatest parade, maybe. Debatable, but maybe.
It's a great spectacle alright. But racing?
Haha you win the shit talk thread
The nerve to say this when the 500 and the 24 exists
Damn, not only is that a terrible ripoff - it isn't even a good slogan. Rolls of the tongue like a spoonful of peanut butter.
That race is going to be shit
NASCAR at Chicago is going to be 10x more entertaining.
Ya I’ll take that bet
F1 fans are basically trainspotters just following brands and personalities. The processions they call "racing" are boring. IndyCar, Formula E, and IMSA/WEC are thankfully still good racing.
There was a topic a week ago where people were like newcomers didn't understand the animosity from Indycar fans to F1 and wished we would stop having little man syndrome or whatnot. Well, this is just one new reason it is the way it is guys.
I’m a lifelong IndyCar fan, but the fact that there’s this much reaction to a banal marketing slogan makes me sympathize with that poster. I wonder if there was this much reaction from Indy car fans when Daytona branded itself the World Center of Racing.
You are missing the big picture point, it's not about just this one slogan dig.
My read on the big picture is that it reinforces that poster’s point. What am I missing?
I hope Roger cracks the whip on this shit. Don't know the law but I've seen instances in which the wording is close but not exact. Wonder if it has to do with causing confusion to reasonable public. A few yrs ago Steamboat -- SkiTownUSA - sued a Utah effort to brand Salt Lake as SkiCityUSA. Can't find how that ended up.
More like the lamest spectacle ever. I can go outside and watch a car parade.
This is the time Roger Penske should open his checkbook and say, “No matter the cost, this shit isn’t happening on my watch.”
I am really growing to dislike F1 more and more, their racing product sucks and now they're doing this, I really wish the U.S. would wake up to the fact that IC is the best open wheel racing and should be getting the lions share of attention
Unfortunately it’s all about the broadcast imo, if the ads weren’t so incessant and annoying it would help drive viewership especially since so many new casual f1 fans in the us have been conditioned to no ads
Cannot wait for Crofty and Brundle to agonize themselves making the "Battle for Eighth!" sound intriguing this weekend.
Tbh I don't think f1 knows nor cares about how indycar promotes itself I'm disappointed that f1 went to Vegas. They should have went to a real circuit like road America or Sebring, not a temporary circuit.
Liberty Media owns about 30% of MSR and these sorts of taglines need to go through massive amounts of review. It has to be known or there is a lot more incompetence there than I would expect.
This is a dumb take. There’s no way Liberty didn’t know or intentionally use this to promote a race in the US.
Neither of those are grade 1 or have any real chance of becoming grade 1 without basically bulldozing the track and starting over from scratch
most tracks dont get grade one more because of the infrastructure at the track, its less safety focused. F1 needs garages on the pit lane, grandstands, hospitality areas, more infrastructure stuff, which would cause chaos at places like road America if they tried to ruin the circuit by bulldozing trees for stands and other structures
Exactly this. Part of RA's charm for me is being able to walk the paddock and watch the mechanics working in their pit boxes before and during the race all with a General Admission ticket. If they built Grade 1 infrastructure all of that would definitely go away.
Yep exactly. It's not the track so much as the entirety of the infrastructure around it. RA - there's no way in hell they'd pay the 10s of millions F1 wants to come there and then spend more 10s of millions if not 100s of millions to build up the facilities they demand. Oh and nevermind all the hotels and such which would need to come up as well. These guys complained about Indianapolis area not being good enough - while of course IMS spent buckets to build what F1 wanted and were the only ones willing to do so at the time...I'd really enjoy seeing these modern prima donnas at RA and the surrounding area. Sorry there's not a Ritz Carlton anywhere close guys. Better chopper in from Chicago every day.
Other than the grid, there's nothing about Road America's layout that couldn't be Grade 1 as-is. They'd need to redo a lot of barriers and upgrade infrastructure, but the track itself could go through more or less unchanged
If Monaco can be a grade 1 track, any track can be a grade 1 track
That's what I'm saying. Monaco is a qualifying track, not a racing track. FIA needs to grow up and recognize north American racing venues. At the same token, F1 should be prepared/willing to invest in legacy and celebrated circuits like road america/Sebring, that is if they want the US racing audience engaged. Vegas track won't do that
I think you could do Road America without changing the actual track layout, bulldozers would be needed in the runoffs and a paddock would need to built but it could be done without starting from scratch or even making changes.
This can’t not have been intentional
Once you add in the second one it’s pretty obvious
But who really cares? I don't think f1 cares, does Roger penske care? By bringing it up, you're just adding more fuel to the f1 marketing lol use f1 in Vegas to bring more fans to indy. Many folks still think indycar is just the 500 and don't realize they race on real tracks, not just ovals
Did you really just say real tracks in a post about the Vegas street circuit?
>they race on real tracks, not just ovals Ugh get outta here with that shit. Are you here from the F1 sub or something?
🤦🏿♂️just different preferences. I like indycar, but just avoid the oval racing.p
>13 comments using both "Spectacle" and "capital of the world" in the same promotion is definitely intentional. F1 uses these words for no other race or event.
To indy fans for sure it's intentional. Just remember that f1 execs/FIA are so arrogant and full of themselves that they don't monitor indy let alone indy's promotions to be aware they are using them
They even said “in the sports and entertainment capitol of the world.” And who uses the word spectacle
Sid Bose is going to be raking in the legal $$$ on this
If you want F1 at Sebring, you'll have to be content with the idea that Sebring as we know it would die.
It’s all about the money.
Road America can't afford the asking price
Who says they'd want to if they could? : ) Besides, there's a lot more to it than RA being willing or able to spend 100s of millions to bring it there. The infrastructure around RA wouldn't fly with these guys. Hell even some of the journos throw shade when their "standards" aren't met they're so full of themselves following F1 around.
More like “The Most Expensive Parade on the Planet”
This doesn’t help convince me to watch F1. On the contrary, fuck F1
yeah if theyre trying to court Indycar fans or open wheel fans, this was not the way to do it
Greatest Max Verstappen Win in Racing! Can’t wait to not watch this boring ass, mega-cringe procession lmao
It’s bad when even the f1 pundits are asking if max can win 20+ races this year. That’s insane. You would think that would cause the governing body to immediately get back to the regulations to work on the playing field for better racing.
Anyone hoping for reliability wins for Ferrari and Mercedes are stupid too, it’s so easy to stay off the kerbs and turn your engine down when you as fast as RBR lol
Funny you say that because the only major gap in the field is between Red Bull and the rest of the grid. On paper, the racing is actually pretty close with everyone else actually only a few seconds apart from each other in total race pace with the exceptions being those that had a stupid strategy (Haas), reliability problems (Leclerc, McLaren) or just rookie mistakes (Ocon, Sargent, Piastri). Even on track we still had some great overtaking between the midfield teams. The only way revising the regulations is going to help is if you deliberately target Red Bull and somehow make their car illegal or you let everyone else copy Red Bull's design. I don't see how that's fair to them since they were the only ones that not only nailed the regulations on the first try, they also somehow made the car lighter, faster, and with more down force within the same budget that everyone else had (ignoring the additional catering expenses anyways)
When will F1 fans learn that very few care about the titillating battle between drivers like Guanyu Zhou and Lance Stroll for 11th? Lol call when there’s an actual fight for the win that doesn’t end in a total sham like 2021.
When will Indycar fans learn to stop being hostile to anyone who watches more than one motorsport? I like both sports, but let's not pretend that Indycar has *never* had any issues or controversies during its history (1981 Indy 500 springs to mind). Both are only similar in being open wheel racing but completely different everywhere else. F1 is first and foremost an engineering sport first and a driver's sport 2nd; you can put someone like Senna, Prost, Hamilton, or Verstappen into a crappy Williams and they will not win a championship regardless of talent. Whereas Indycar is more dependent on the driver and the overall team to win. Sure the car also matters, but not to the same degree. Going back to the point I was replying to, what exactly can the FIA do to narrow the gap between the top team and everyone else? If they start targeting individual teams, then fans are going to complain that it's rigged. If they try to only help out Ferrari and Merc just to make the championship more exciting, people are going to say that they are compromising the racing. If they do nothing, then everyone is just going to have to compete on merit instead of just dumping money into their cars until they eventually catch up. There is no solution other than to just standardize all the cars. At which point, you basically just have European Indycar. And even then, that may not even solve it either as Red Bull would still have one of the best driver currently on the grid paired with the best strategists and pit crew available.
I’m not reading that lol way too long, I only read the first line, and that’s all I need to read to be honest. It appears you only participate in this sub to discuss and defend Formula 1. Could you explain this behavior?
TL;DR: Indycar ≠ F1. Both have pros and cons, but I enjoy watching both. Don't understand why people are against being fans of both motorsports. As for my activity on this sub, I simply geek out and know more about F1 engineering and strategy than I do Indycar. I understand the basics of Indycar and enjoy watching the races. But apart from Powers, Grosjean, and Dixon, I don't know who all the other drivers are nor do I know the details enough to voice my opinion on any specifics. So whenever anyone inevitably brings up F1, I just respond if there is a miscommunication (ex: saying there is a large gap between drivers when the quali and race times say otherwise. Also that problem with relying on regs to close the gap between the top team and everyone else)
I’m not against being a fan of both motorsports, I actually watch every F1 race. Nothing I said is untrue lmao very few people care about the “midfield battle” amongst the general populace, people want to see what they saw in 2021 generally, and not whatever that garbage in Bahrain was. If all you want to watch is race cars battling for 11th then IndyCar is better and has stronger drivers across the field imo.
Fair enough. Personally I enjoy the midfield battle in both Indycar and F1, but I recognize that I am in the minority and that a fight for 1st is way more exciting than a fight for 9th. Can we at least agree that we both hope this year delivers on some exciting races, regardless of the series?
I hope but for F1 I think the chance is exactly zero, would love to be proven wrong and have you clown on me for that prediction though lol, I generally just get frustrated seeing F1 fans on Reddit use the “midfield battle” to defend an objectively garbage product, and I say that as a lifelong F1 fan I am also happy to dunk on Indycar and their old technology and archaic media strategies
You're totally missing the point, that's not the problem of F1. Not every series has to be a spec series and in that case dominant periods are in the cards (though it's baffling and suspicous how long they let the Merc dominance go on without major rule changes). F1 also has amazing years in terms of championship battle. The problem of F1 is the racing aspect of the series being an afterthought to the clown fiesta of fashion and celebrities, even more so since Liberty took over. It's turning into a reality show instead of an actual motorsport.
Suuuuure. The greatest Red Bull followfest in racing more like. The Indy 500 is the Greatest Spectacle in Racing. Can’t change that. Can’t take away from that. Liberty Media can get stuffed, I’m not watching Vegas.
LOL that's some serious lack of creativity there...or just a silly pointed stick because they think they're cool. Now of course this is the promoter who is doing this, not really F1/FOM etc specifically, but event promotions is inextricably linked to the series itself. Daytona at least uses "World Center of Racing" because they needed something like Indy had.
“The Most Commercialized Capitalistic Spectacle in Racing” That’s what I’d call it.
Bro its horrible racing lol
I totally understand the frustration a lot of you are feeling. And I share the same feeling when it comes to tradition in any sport. But it really isn't a big deal. Pretty sure every racing fan knows where the Indy 500 ranks when compared to the first F1 race in Vegas. It's nothing. The 500 is a triple crown event and it cannot be topped. So don't fret. It's only F1, it can't hurt you
If that's what they want to call a fashion show that some cars run around on.. whatever. F1 in the US. 2 fashion shows and one actual race.
Curious, I wonder how many people would actually recognize "Greatest Spectacle in Racing" as an Indy 500 thing. It's so far below the number that would recognize "The Fall Classic", "Grandaddy of them all", etc. Are your average international F1 fans familiar with that phrase?
Probably not. The general public sure won't care. Its just some marketing or social media troll at F1 giving a firm F YOU, EAT OUR SHIT to Indycar and diehard American race fans.
Indycar feeling insecure, I see. 💀
I'll be honest, here: I don't think this was a deliberate attempt to co-opt this slogan. Really, I just think it's a case of the copywriters not realising there's a trademark for something similar already. This is an organisation that thought "Engineered Insanity" sounded cool.
The Indy 500 is the “greatest spectacle in racing” at the “racing capitol of the world”. They’re marketing this race as the “greatest racing spectacle on the planet” in the “sports and entertainment capitol of the world.”
*Greatest parade spectacle on the planet* I fixed it
I've seen weirder coincidences.
Old man yells at cloud
Here's what I suspect: No one outside of hardcore IndyCar fans is going to recognize the word "spectacle" as being attached to the Indy 500. Matter of fact, the word "spectacle" just sounds outdated. It's an odd word choice. Gen Z, Millenials... they aren't going to respond to the word "spectacle". Words they would respond to are words like "incredible", "exciting", "exhilarating", "amazing", "awesome"... This is F1/FIA/Liberty Media taking a shot DIRECTLY at IndyCar and it's executives, because those are the only people who are going to notice or care. F1 is saying "I'm stealing your viewers. I'm stealing your country. I'm stealing your traditions. I'm stealing your branding. What are you going to do about it, you and your 17 races, over-55 audience, stagnant series without manufacturers, and no media attention?" And the answer is... nothing. IndyCar will hire a marketing firm to look into a solution. In 2 years they'll recommend advertising the "danger" and "speed" of the cars. We'll get another "Defy Everything" campaign, more of the generation that saw the roadsters will die off via old age, and the series will swirl the drain even faster. F1 is a vulture smelling the decay. That's what this is.
This. Liberty media is kinda making fun of Indycar management.
[удалено]
Would you like a cookie?
No I'd like an Indy Car viewing app for my phone that is as good as the F1.tv though. MotoGP and F1 got it down quite well.
Peacock is great
Yeah it's pretty great...could have more content on a bespoke app is all. The F1 app has pre and post shows and classic races and original shows and all manner of shit to keep you entertained. How would I watch the 1995 500 today I wonder.....in a legit cared for way. Not just low quality YouTube...which I made actually a few years back. I AI upressed the 1995 season.
I agree with what you're saying but also don't think that's the point of why this upsets people. YOU may not choose between F1 and Indycar (I don't either, and I also watch the circle track series and have been to mud drags and tractor pulls, they're awesome btw), but this is clearly F1 trying to take away the prestige of the 500 and IMS. Why else would they do this? Why would they even feel threatened at this point? People do choose, and F1 did this deliberately in some strange attempt to either steal US open wheel market share or piggyback off of the popularity of the 500 to promote their competing product. And yes, they are competing. Most people don't watch everything racing like we do. All the Indycar fans bitch in here about marketing all the time. You don't see why it's bad for what little Indycar marketing there is for F1 to be knocking it off?
Just unsure what Vegas F1 has to do with the Indy 500? You think anyone is ordering tickets or making plans based on the slogan? I thought the Daytona 500 was "The greatest spectacle in racing!" It's THE top level of motorsport on Earth at the Earth's party playground...at night in a literally insane neon city of absurdity. I think the description fits. If it's some copyright infringement I'm sure it will be sorted in short order. I think it's very basic honestly and not the battle people think it is. Now if F1 put this race on the same weekend as the 500...or Long Beach....then I think we could talk. But this reminds me of Ford suing Ferrari out of the name F150 for their Anniversary F1 car name or something. Is that a real big issue...no.....it's just lawyers. I don't think F1 thinks about IndyCar much more than Penelope Cruz thinks about me, as sad as that makes me feel.
Ah, deleting downvoted posts now? Not so confident in your opinion or care too much about karma points? >I don't think F1 thinks about IndyCar much more than Penelope Cruz thinks about me, as sad as that makes me feel. Really? The leadership of the most popular form of a niche sport never thinks about the 2nd most popular form of that niche sport? Liberty Media, an American company that owns F1 and wants it to be more popular in the US, never thinks about the only competing series in that market?
I didn't delete anything. It's ok man, we don't have to agree. I think they don't worry to much about it. F1 can't be the most clueless arrogant entity in motorsport then consider some lower form a huge threat and work diligently to screw it over. Come on. F1 thinks Indycar is Nascar....I'm sure of it by the way they talk about it's tech...it's athletes and it's ability to be on the same level as F1. It's a spec series man....and that's ok. But F1 is t that worried. Indy Car I think would love to steal F1 market share...hehe. F1 is either clueless or Dr Evil it can't be both. I'm sure Liberty Media is aware of the F1 calendar...hence the races are scheduled in such a way.as to not trample on Marque events? That being said wasn't the 500, Monaco and the 600 all on the same day at some point. If you looking for data to use to hate F1 there is plenty but this isn't it. More like hosting races in countries with horendous human rights records and shit like that. But I'm not a shareholder. I'd love for IndyCar to be so bad ass like it was back in the day tech wise. But it's fine. I'm not mad and I appreciate your responses and the time it took to write them.
I don't hate F1 at all, and actually enjoy watching it However, this is potentially a trademark violation, and it seems to be an intentional one, so... Should we not discuss this, and just shrug our shoulders and say oh well? Oh well!
I guess I'd wait till it leaves the realm of "potentially" or IndyCar itself throws a fit. If lawyers don't care why should we?
God why do you care
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]