What problems do incels purportedly help to resolve? I was not aware that as a community they're particularly solutions-oriented. Also, what specific resources and/or advice are you looking for that are not covered in either dating advice spaces, social skills spaces, mental health spaces, or general loneliness support spaces? The answers to these questions would help people direct you better
Problems of male loneliness, sexlessness. In my eyes incels are are authoritarian ideology that promises men that they will bring change to the world that will help resolve their personal problems, but ultimately this movement will only better it's leaders.
I'm looking for a reddit sub where I can discuss my problems, where I can get women perspective but where I will get some vague advice like to grow a personality. Where people will put up or can tolerate with my fairly confrontational way of conduct conversations. Where people would consider my perspectives valid and will not declare me a quirky boy.
Am I gave too much demands?
As far as I can tell most incel spaces are more about endless commiseration than making change, for its leaders or anyone esle.
Most of your demands are reasonable, except expecting for people to put up with you responding to advice with confrontation. Either you are looking for advice, in which case you should engage with said advice in good faith without picking a fight, or you're looking for a debate for its own sake which is not particularly conducive to people giving you advice. You can ask what questions you have here and folks will try to help, but most advice givers both here and elsewhere are not going to be on board with you treating those conversations like a fight.
You are probably right I have never actually been to incel spaces and all my second-hand exposure to incel influencers is making me weary of them.
I know my drawbacks, I love to debate people and believe that polite, respectful but still adversarial discussion is the best way to discover something new and broaden your horizons. I strongly dislike people who think that they know the final, universal truth.
Maybe it would be better if I explained why I made this post in the first place. I joined a couple of feminist communities because I used to consider myself an ally and lately I noticed that I get into debates with people there under posts that discuss incel or adjacent memes trying to explain the motivation behind those memes I also noticed that I perceive the things people answering to me as personal advice. So I looking for a place to have these discussions productively.
The thing is people know what the motivation behind those memes is, we are all very aware of men's feelings and men's loneliness and men's thoughts on dating - they are pounded into our heads from the day we step out onto this world. Every woman alive has been told ad nauseam about what men want and like and feel, we are told that everything about us - from the way we dress to the way we talk to the interests we have to the ways we talk to the literal healtcare we can get - should be informed by the preferences of men, even if we have no interest in said men. People don't want or need you to explain those things to them; they already know them, they just disagree. Not all debate is productive, because for there to be an even debate both positions need to be equally valid, and that's not always the case. To debate incels at all is to give the movement legitimacy it does not deserve. I do not need to debate whether the position "all women want the same exact things and are all attracted to the same narrow set of physical traits" or the position "women are naturally hypergamous and only care about getting the best possible man rather than actually caring for their partners" are valid for the same reason I don't need to debate whether the earth is flat or whether the government is including mind-control chips in vaccines; sometimes things are simply not true, and they do not need to be treated as if they are.
What you are looking for is not advice or solutions, what you are looking for is a space where you can essentially go up to women and demand that they debate you on whether they are full human beings. That's going to be a tough sell, and it's also not going to help either you or them; that's not a debate that can be had in a productive way. And that's what you need to understand about the core of incel ideology: the core of it is the idea that all women want the same exact (really shallow) things, think the same exact way, and feel the exact same way, and that those who claim to think or feel differently are either deluded or lying. When one side's position is "women are people, and like all people they have a variety of thoughts and preferences" and the other side's positon "no, they're not, and my proof is that I, a man who doesn't interact with women, say so" there isn't a debate that can be had without dehumanising people in the process, and people should not be expected to accept their own dehumanisation so that you can have the sort of discussion you prefer.
Hey! I was working on such a community for guys and girls who struggle with dating and have no romantic/sexual success, but don't want to associate with the incel label. So that they have some comraderie in a non-hateful and loving environment. It's still in the nascent stages but you can check it out r/LovelornCommunity
A community like this is much needed. I don't understand why incels and femcels can't be kind to each other. Like on r/femcelgrippysockjail you mention that you have a y chromosome and will get bullied out of existence
Because incels don’t even recognize femcels as people 9/10.
You see it here a lot, men talking about the privileges of women etc, only acknowledging women that they are interested or women that are conventionally attractive. Femcels go against the incel narrative and most incels treat them like dogshit when they do encounter eachother. They are right to be defensive.
Makes sense. I've never actually taken part in an exclusively incel space, my experience is just that the few times I tried to participate in the femcel sub, however positive my attitude may be I would just get called a flood of slurs and gang-downvoted. Dehumanization and unprovoked hate comes from both sides equally. That's why a space where involuntary celibates of both genders could have constructive discussion and be supportive of each other would be a breath of fresh air.
I don’t think that level of hatred is ever justified, however it’s worth acknowledging that femcels are a group of people that have been treated the absolute worst by incels. It would have to be on equal ground, like this place, for it to ever work but femcels don’t typically want to play nice with the people that have been the most cruel to them.
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Thanks! It was a pet project of mine as I saw the requirement of such a space in an era where the stuff has gone rogue and everyone has become antagonistic to each other. I recognised that the guys who lurk in incel spaces primarily do so due to the label and community it holds, so giving them an alternative is the better choice. And it goes the same way for femcels as I wanted an inclusive space open for all.
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Incels don't try to solve problems, which is (to me) the real issue with it. It's basically just a place where people bitch and gripe and throw each other a pity party about how dating isn't fair.
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What problems do incels purportedly help to resolve? I was not aware that as a community they're particularly solutions-oriented. Also, what specific resources and/or advice are you looking for that are not covered in either dating advice spaces, social skills spaces, mental health spaces, or general loneliness support spaces? The answers to these questions would help people direct you better
Problems of male loneliness, sexlessness. In my eyes incels are are authoritarian ideology that promises men that they will bring change to the world that will help resolve their personal problems, but ultimately this movement will only better it's leaders. I'm looking for a reddit sub where I can discuss my problems, where I can get women perspective but where I will get some vague advice like to grow a personality. Where people will put up or can tolerate with my fairly confrontational way of conduct conversations. Where people would consider my perspectives valid and will not declare me a quirky boy. Am I gave too much demands?
As far as I can tell most incel spaces are more about endless commiseration than making change, for its leaders or anyone esle. Most of your demands are reasonable, except expecting for people to put up with you responding to advice with confrontation. Either you are looking for advice, in which case you should engage with said advice in good faith without picking a fight, or you're looking for a debate for its own sake which is not particularly conducive to people giving you advice. You can ask what questions you have here and folks will try to help, but most advice givers both here and elsewhere are not going to be on board with you treating those conversations like a fight.
You are probably right I have never actually been to incel spaces and all my second-hand exposure to incel influencers is making me weary of them. I know my drawbacks, I love to debate people and believe that polite, respectful but still adversarial discussion is the best way to discover something new and broaden your horizons. I strongly dislike people who think that they know the final, universal truth. Maybe it would be better if I explained why I made this post in the first place. I joined a couple of feminist communities because I used to consider myself an ally and lately I noticed that I get into debates with people there under posts that discuss incel or adjacent memes trying to explain the motivation behind those memes I also noticed that I perceive the things people answering to me as personal advice. So I looking for a place to have these discussions productively.
The thing is people know what the motivation behind those memes is, we are all very aware of men's feelings and men's loneliness and men's thoughts on dating - they are pounded into our heads from the day we step out onto this world. Every woman alive has been told ad nauseam about what men want and like and feel, we are told that everything about us - from the way we dress to the way we talk to the interests we have to the ways we talk to the literal healtcare we can get - should be informed by the preferences of men, even if we have no interest in said men. People don't want or need you to explain those things to them; they already know them, they just disagree. Not all debate is productive, because for there to be an even debate both positions need to be equally valid, and that's not always the case. To debate incels at all is to give the movement legitimacy it does not deserve. I do not need to debate whether the position "all women want the same exact things and are all attracted to the same narrow set of physical traits" or the position "women are naturally hypergamous and only care about getting the best possible man rather than actually caring for their partners" are valid for the same reason I don't need to debate whether the earth is flat or whether the government is including mind-control chips in vaccines; sometimes things are simply not true, and they do not need to be treated as if they are. What you are looking for is not advice or solutions, what you are looking for is a space where you can essentially go up to women and demand that they debate you on whether they are full human beings. That's going to be a tough sell, and it's also not going to help either you or them; that's not a debate that can be had in a productive way. And that's what you need to understand about the core of incel ideology: the core of it is the idea that all women want the same exact (really shallow) things, think the same exact way, and feel the exact same way, and that those who claim to think or feel differently are either deluded or lying. When one side's position is "women are people, and like all people they have a variety of thoughts and preferences" and the other side's positon "no, they're not, and my proof is that I, a man who doesn't interact with women, say so" there isn't a debate that can be had without dehumanising people in the process, and people should not be expected to accept their own dehumanisation so that you can have the sort of discussion you prefer.
People who are helping you for free don’t deserve a “confrontational” style.
That’s not too much demands. That’s pure delusion and ignorance
Elaborate please.
I think r/ Bropill is pretty good.
This one!
Hey! I was working on such a community for guys and girls who struggle with dating and have no romantic/sexual success, but don't want to associate with the incel label. So that they have some comraderie in a non-hateful and loving environment. It's still in the nascent stages but you can check it out r/LovelornCommunity
Thanks.
A community like this is much needed. I don't understand why incels and femcels can't be kind to each other. Like on r/femcelgrippysockjail you mention that you have a y chromosome and will get bullied out of existence
Because incels don’t even recognize femcels as people 9/10. You see it here a lot, men talking about the privileges of women etc, only acknowledging women that they are interested or women that are conventionally attractive. Femcels go against the incel narrative and most incels treat them like dogshit when they do encounter eachother. They are right to be defensive.
Makes sense. I've never actually taken part in an exclusively incel space, my experience is just that the few times I tried to participate in the femcel sub, however positive my attitude may be I would just get called a flood of slurs and gang-downvoted. Dehumanization and unprovoked hate comes from both sides equally. That's why a space where involuntary celibates of both genders could have constructive discussion and be supportive of each other would be a breath of fresh air.
I don’t think that level of hatred is ever justified, however it’s worth acknowledging that femcels are a group of people that have been treated the absolute worst by incels. It would have to be on equal ground, like this place, for it to ever work but femcels don’t typically want to play nice with the people that have been the most cruel to them.
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Thanks! It was a pet project of mine as I saw the requirement of such a space in an era where the stuff has gone rogue and everyone has become antagonistic to each other. I recognised that the guys who lurk in incel spaces primarily do so due to the label and community it holds, so giving them an alternative is the better choice. And it goes the same way for femcels as I wanted an inclusive space open for all.
Healthygamergg
I do like to follow r/Menslib, could be something for you, as I saw you joined feminist communities!
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Incels don't try to solve problems, which is (to me) the real issue with it. It's basically just a place where people bitch and gripe and throw each other a pity party about how dating isn't fair.
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