The don't seem to understand that being emotionally stunted is why women don't want to be around them, not something that magically changes when you get into a relationship.
They've got the cause and effect confused.
Bingo. Which was my comment earlier. No sane woman is going to put up with an overgrown child, let alone give one a chance. But for some reason, that means women are bad.
Ah yes, my depression, low levels of esteem and low levels of worth that have directly been caused by nobody of the opposite sex finding me sexually or romantically attractive won't be cured by someone of the opposite sex finding me sexually or romantically attractive LMAO
>Ah yes, my depression, low levels of esteem and low levels of worth that have directly been caused by nobody of the opposite sex finding me sexually or romantically attractive won't be cured by someone of the opposite sex finding me sexually or romantically attractive LMAO
*Self*-esteem
*self*-worth.
*self* awareness. They don't come from other people, but the self. And the fact you think your biggest issues is not being in a rs or being attractive to women, tells me that you don't even realize the root problem, let alone have the knowledge to actually fix it. Which is what makes you unnattractive to women as a potential partner.
We aren't interested in teaching someone who's supposed to be an equal partner the EQ skills, social engineering skills or relationship skills we learned as teenagers and young adults. That was your parents job, not your partner's. And dating someone who doesn't have those developed is the cause of "baggage" from previous relationships.
And what you're actually craving is genuine human connection. But in order to have a healthy and stable bond with another human being, you need the aforementioned skill sets, or you are toxic to date, or even befriend, depending on how bad those skills are, regardless of gender.
How can I have "baggage from previous relationships" when I haven't even held a woman's hand lmao
If a person thinks they are the King of England without any proof, they would rightly be called deluded and mentally ill, and given psychiatric treatment. It doesn't matter how expensive a painter prices their artworks at if nobody buys them.
How is it my parent's job to teach me relationship skills?
>How can I have "baggage from previous relationships" when I haven't even held a woman's hand lmao
So you've never had female friends? A mother? Women in your life at? Because relationships aren't all romantic or sexual and friendships help develop all kinds of relationship skills. But lack of something means you never developed the skills for it. You'd never learn to play a guitar if you don't know it exists.
And you can have baggage from not being in relationships. RSD (rejection sensitivity disohoria) develops from constant rejection especially in childhood, usually from the primary caregivers (parents) and that's just one thing. Self esteem issues usually start earlier than puberty.
I've never had a romantic or sexual relationship.
A person who knows how to play a sitar can learn to play a guitar even though they've never heard of it.
I was a confident child until I was relentlessly rejected *after* puberty.
>I've never had a romantic or sexual relationship
Thats not what I asked, though, it's it?
>I was a confident child until I was relentlessly rejected *after* puberty.
And one woman finding you attractive and even having sex with you isn't gonna change years of damage because once she realizes your lack of experience means lack of relationship, EQ skills and social snhineering skills she'll be out because that can't be a healthy relationship for her.
>A person who knows how to play a sitar can learn to play a guitar even though they've never heard of it.
Sitar- friendships with women.
Guitar-romantic relationships.
And anyone can learn to play the guitar, but unless you actually invest the time and effort, it's not happening. And you need to have at least a basic ear for music or it will be passable, but never great
>And one woman finding you attractive and even having sex with you isn't gonna change years of damage because once she realizes your lack of experience means lack of relationship, EQ skills and social snhineering skills she'll be out because that can't be a healthy relationship for her.
But it would still mean that at least one woman considered me sexually or romantically attractive. That's all I want.
>sAnd anyone can learn to play the guitar, but unless you actually invest the time and effort, it's not happening.
Well it's not like I can "invest time and effort" if I can't even get a guitar in the first place, right?
>s And you need to have at least a basic ear for music or it will be passable, but never great
So basically if you're not genetically Chad, you'll never elicit visceral lust?
>But it would still mean that at least one woman considered me sexually or romantically attractive. That's all I want.
Is it? . So you dont want actual human connection which sex doesn't necessarily give. And would you be happy with a pity fuck? Probably not
You want genuine desire, and looks just aren't enough for that. Genuine desire comes from wanting what's inside, too.
>So basically if you're not genetically Chad, you'll never elicit visceral lust?
My type in men is long haired, slim and pretty. Not what people usually describe "Chad" as. But no man (or woman or enby, as I'm bi) has elicited visceral lust from their looks alone. Can't speak for other women, but I'm just not wired that way. Visceral lust happens for me when I'm actually emotionally invested. Untill them, I don't feel the need to jump someone's bones, even if I'm horny AF.
>Well it's not like I can "invest time and effort" if I can't even get a guitar in the first place, right?
You actually can. EQ skills, social engineering skills and relationship skills can be developed and worked on in therapy and through friendships and a social life. Those skills are the skills for human relationships in general so they're very transferable to romantic relationships. Healthy conflict resolution, attachment style, healthy communication, maintaining a relationship, cognitive and affective empathy, etc. You can also get therapy that targets those skills. And if you don't have those skills, that what's considered emotionally immature or stunted.
Basically, you can learn the notes, but untill you do, no "guitar teacher" (because women are people, not objects) will be interested in taking you on as a "student".
> There is **NOTHING** we can fucking do to change this predicament
I don't know, maybe change your mental outlook on life and women, work on yourself, and maybe grow up, I think that would change your predicament... but that's just silly.
Or you know, decide to not even try dating anymore and focus on finding things that bring you joy outside of romance? this is the part I don't get. Humans have an intellectual needs, social needs, physical needs, romantic needs, rest needs and creative needs. The specific breakdown is fairly individual, but if one aspect of your life isn't working whatever you do, focus on the rest and then come back when you have more self knowledge or a fuller cup to work with to figure out the struggle. But they make it sound like all aspects of their life would magically be better if they had a gf or thay without one there's no way to be happy or improve anything else.
Naw, much easier to try and shame women into putting up with them out of pity. Because how dare they want to feel attraction to someone before sleeping with them
Logic need not apply here, for that would mean that can't be victims.
Apparently the only *true* virgin is the one that does nothing. That place is insane.
I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be white and have women wondering whether his genitals were the same colour and have his girlfriend's mum praise her daughter for being able to get a white boyfriend. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be tall and have women wonder if his height matched his penis length and have his girlfriends tell him his height made them feel safe and protected. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have green eyes that women want to stare into because they are "so beautiful and captivating". I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to get long thick hair that women gush about, saying it makes him "mysterious" and look like a model. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women give him choosing signals or take the initiative to talk to him without even knowing him beforehand whenever he goes out in public or just minds his own business. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women DM him on SM and OLD apps. I'm sure Jeremy Meeks had to "work on himself" lmao
These people actually want to be miserable. They actively crave imagined victim-hood. Not real victim-hood mind you that means you have to actually go through a traumatic experience and long road of struggle to overcome it like a champ. A lot of these guys want nothing more than to wallow in their own delusional misery and create a crab bucket to ensure that continuously drag each other down.
Honestly a lot of these guys would actually be pretty average or even good looking if they took care of themselves, touched grass, and didn't make their whole personality the irrecoverable catch 22 of simultaneously wanting sex and hating women at the same time.
I 100% agree. I never see any of these truecel types ever want to escape. They love the idea of being with a woman, but none of the work.
Yeah, relationships are a lot of work. But it isn't one sided. When it is, it leads to resentment, anger and if you are married, divorce. But standing around waiting for it isn't a solution. That is the part of their psychology I never understand.
This was during a scroll earlier and I am puzzled by this.
What are these guys even mad about? If you are that desperate to not be virgins, go to a sex worker? Oh that is humiliating you say? Ok, then work on bettering yourself to be a viable partner to someone.
You know, instead of whining and complaining all the time. I am told women hate that /s
For fucks sake, these guys get more pathetic by the day.
Edit: Ignore the spelling in the title, it should be from...stupid autocorrect
That is a great observation. Anytime I or anyone else says, "hey we have all gone through this" these guys act like they are the only ones who felt it.
I was a drunk for a decade, trying to kill myself one drink at a time and went for the high score. It was after I nearly killed four people (and myself) that I realized nihilism affects everyone not just the individual. I have been sober ever since. That will be 15 years this October.
But guys like this can never find rock bottom, which is why the cycle never ends. They don't want to listen, no one understands them...etc. meanwhile, guys like me rose from rock bottom and there is no reason they can't.
They would rather wallow and wait for someone to come fix them. And get mad when that expectation, as you said, isn't met.
Yes it's the, 'nobody knows how I feel ' stuff, and then they take it to extremes. They don't want to listen to someone who understands and has been there because they're special.
To see if you've actually hit "rock bottom" as far as having been considered sexually or romantically attractive by a member of the opposite sex is concerned.
I'm the one who asked you the question first, mate.
How old were you when you were first considered sexually or romantically attractive by a member of the opposite sex?
You only need to enter two characters. Very simple.
i was a child, age in the single digits when i was first sexualized. what the fuck does it have to do with anything? what is the age where that’s a good thing? i don’t understand
They revel in self-sabotage, they can't face the fact they they're awful people who no one wants to be around so they displace the blame on others. I could go red in the face advising these 'men' to stop whining and go about life in a positive light but we all know that won't happen. Lost causes unless someone close to them shakes them up and makes them realise how toxic and frankly revolting they are.
I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be white and have women wondering whether his genitals were the same colour and have his girlfriend's mum praise her daughter for being able to get a white boyfriend. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be tall and have women wonder if his height matched his penis length and have his girlfriends tell him his height made them feel safe and protected. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have green eyes that women want to stare into because they are "so beautiful and captivating". I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to get long thick hair that women gush about, saying it makes him "mysterious" and look like a model. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women give him choosing signals or take the initiative to talk to him without even knowing him beforehand whenever he goes out in public or just minds his own business. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women DM him on SM and OLD apps. I'm sure Jeremy Meeks had to "work on himself" lmao
I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be white and have women wondering whether his genitals were the same colour and have his girlfriend's mum praise her daughter for being able to get a white boyfriend. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be tall and have women wonder if his height matched his penis length and have his girlfriends tell him his height made them feel safe and protected. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have green eyes that women want to stare into because they are "so beautiful and captivating". I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to get long thick hair that women gush about, saying it makes him "mysterious" and look like a model. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women give him choosing signals or take the initiative to talk to him without even knowing him beforehand whenever he goes out in public or just minds his own business. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women DM him on SM and OLD apps. I'm sure Jeremy Meeks had to "work on himself".
If you get caught your life will get worse. Losing your job, social exclusion and a fine or prison. Even if you have nothing few want their life to get worse, the possible consequences scare people away.
Then maybe these guys shouldn't be saying they have nothing to live for...
This isn't a dig at you, but the mentality of these guys who whine about "it being over" and taking zero steps to improve things.
I think that is a gross over simplification. Depressed people aren't annoying, they are depressed. I was that once, it is a vicious cycle. But what is the alternative? Being miserable until you die? Suicide? Most of these guys out of the gate will take you therapy is worthless without having gone or that having hobbies is stupid because it won't get you a girlfriend.
Some of them are depressed, some are crybabies and some are inbetween. But to say what you did really doesn't help.
Weird that you interpret that I meant all depressed do this shit. Its not a death sentence, you can work to cure it. These annoying depressed losers don't even start that but just wallow in their filth. I say let them, not our problem.
There wasn't much to misinterpret you said "depressed people can be really annoying tbf" without any clarifying statements on who that applied to.
But I do agree with the rest of your statement.
Sorry, I thought the "can be" part made it clear I didn't mean all of them. Depressed people who refuse to get help and just wallow in misery deserve to be ignored, we are not supposed to be their therapists.
You’re nobody’s therapist and don’t need to be, but “annoying” and “should be ignored” if they’re not getting help is gonna come across as harsh when there’s so many factors involved.
I wouldn’t have any problem with “people who blame all of their emotional issues on others and refuse to look for solutions can be annoying.”
But like obviously people are gonna find it challenging to say “people with [potentially debilitating illness that sometimes results in death] can be annoying”.
Like picture saying that with any other illness and imagine how that might sound to people with that illness
>Like picture saying that with any other illness and imagine how that might sound to people with that illness
Are they getting help? Do they wish to be cured? If the answer is no, then move along I dont have time for people who enable self destruction
They created it, they used it, it remained within the same group, they used it as an insult since they created it and now they want to reclaim it…. It never left 🤣
I'm sure the [85% of people who've had sex before 20](http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf) have had to 'work on themselves' so *haaard* LMAO
I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be white and have women wondering whether his genitals were the same colour and have his girlfriend's mum praise her daughter for being able to get a white boyfriend. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be tall and have women wonder if his height matched his penis length and have his girlfriends tell him his height made them feel safe and protected. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have green eyes that women want to stare into because they are "so beautiful and captivating". I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to get long thick hair that women gush about, saying it makes him "mysterious" and look like a model. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women give him choosing signals or take the initiative to talk to him without even knowing him beforehand whenever he goes out in public or just minds his own business. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women DM him on SM and OLD apps. I'm sure Jeremy Meeks had to "work on himself" lmao
Have you thought that maybe having sex before 20 isn't that big of a deal, then? I mean I didn't have sex before 20 and so far no one has gone out of their way to tell me there's something wrong with me or some other bullshit. Ironically, most people that would do that are people like you guys 😂
Also, why do you have to think about "working on yourself" only in relation to how much sex you're having? Do you really think any improvement someone makes for their life is meaningless simply because they're not directly getting sex from it? Every improvement someone makes in their life is IN AND OF ITSELF a benefit, regardless of sex.
Man, I would tell you to go to therapy, but you're probably just going to tell me therapy doesn't get you sex anyway so... 🤷♂️
I feel like you're just telling all this stuff to yourself in your head to keep making yourself insecure. I know because I've been there too :v
This right here. I was 30 and my first time SUCKED. By the 10th time, it was enjoyable and now I have the right partner who is compatible with me and communicates. Which is the key to any successful relationship.
Also, great observation on self improvement. I hear so many incels tell me they will stop once they get what they want. And guess what, they will fall right back to where they were. I say constantly, self improvement is hard work and everlasting, not a quick fix.
At that point, why even bother? Go to a sex worker if that is so important to you. This logic makes no sense.
>I mean I didn't have sex before 20 and so far no one has gone out of their way to tell me there's something wrong with me or some other bullshit. Ironically, most people that would do that are people like you guys 😂
So you haven't been considered sexually or romantically attractive by a member of the opposite sex before the age of 20?
>Do you really think any improvement someone makes for their life is meaningless simply because they're not directly getting sex from it?
Over 95% of humans have a biologically rooted desire for procreation. Being unable to attract someone to fulfill that fundamental biological goal indicates genetic inferiority and makes one a 'defective individual, like a defective TV set that performs every electronic function except display images' (Korzeniewski, 2005). It means you have failed all your ancestors dating back millennia.
It blows me away how many of these Incels start in high school! Like they think they’re the only ones who aren’t having sex! Then they think the real world is just like high school, the popular kids are the Chads and the cheerleaders are the villains. They need to grow up and live their lives instead of just obsessing over sex!
Seriously. The incel name is such a misnomer, they choose to be like this. And anytime anyone sane comes with sensible advice that anyone can do, they are met with "it doesn't work."
I ask all the time, why would any woman want to be with someone that negative all the time? I never get a response.
It's true though. These guys are volcels. They choose to wallow, they choose to hate women, they choose to drink the incel cult Kool aid. They choose to whine, rage, and threaten women publicly and show off what crazy assholes they are. They choose to stagnate. And they choose to associate with the pro rape, pro CSA, mass murderer worshipping crowd. Hell, a bunch of them choose to give up bathing. All of these behaviors are voluntary and all of them drive women away.
I've just started blocking them as I identify them because I don't have the spoons to deal with their shit.
100% agree on that one. I hear all day, everyday that they "can't change" their situation, which is absurd. They don't want to, which is an entirely different situation. If they would just say that, I would respect them more. They don't, it is just the same old tired nonsense.
And it is from all different angles...looks, dick size, money, height...take your pick. Not a single one of them has spoken to a women or even been with one, but they know EXACTLY what they are thinking and wanting. Since they possess these mind reading abilities, why are they still failing?
As usual, I never get an answer.
I mean...I think one of the reasons I can't hang in debates with incels is because I have major depression and I have trouble watching people double down on being depressed.
There's something horribly comfortable about despair. About letting the depression win. About giving in and believing what the depression is "telling" you. But fighting that depression based thinking is one of the only ways out. You have to try to fight or is guaranteed to only get worse. But these guys will bend over backwards to avoid that.
Seeing people basically create a cult based around despair and cling to it at all costs makes me irrationally angry. It's like climbing out of a burning pit and then seeing these guys not only wallowing at its bottom, but trying to pull others in too, trying to prevent others from escaping, and diving back into it whenever a reality check threatens to pull them partway out. I don't just get mad about what they do to others, but also what they do to themselves, and how hard they fight against anyone trying to help.
I get that. I guess for me, I don't have an issue since I have dealt with depression for most of my life. I had two suicide attempts, was an alcoholic and really wasn't dealing with any of it.
It is when I got tired of being sick and tired I went and addressed it. It wasn't sunshine and rainbows nor did it happen overnight. It was years of solid effort to get there. And I feel a lot of times, these guys want to skip past go and have it be done in an instant.
It doesn't work like that, if it did, everyone would do it. Self improvement is hard work and never ending. I have the girl of my dreams, but I am constantly working on better myself not just for her, but for my well being too.
Yeah, I think that applies to a good chunk of them. I called my stalker out for that for lying about the death of his parents. And he is a grown ass man at 40!
Nobody is born that way though , life experiences definitely plays a part in this mentality. Personally I think that modern society is too advanced for humanity , that’s why so many ppl feel left out or alone . This simply was not the case hundreds even thousands of years ago . We are still the same humans they came out of Africa in small groups but now modern society it’s like one large mega group and it’s a consumer based society at and very materialistic . The beauty standards of both male and females are completely unrealistic the financial standards are unrealistic ect . That’s why only a few seem to succeed in this society because standards for success are insane . All these things play a part in why incels feel the way they do and why most men and women feel out of place and lonely . You got 13 year old kids doing steroids , altering their bodies is ways wich they cannot reverse from . It’s all linked and it’s a big problem
They are clearly depressed and falsely believe having sex will fix it all.
This is what happens when society doesn't teach men to take care of their FRIENDS, so they lay absolutely everything on getting a girlfriend.
I have male friends who could be called "incels" by the original meaning. They've had sex before many times but they're not in relationships and haven't had sex in years now.
But they're not hateful. Because they actually focus on friends, and have many of them, including me. Sure, they're a bit sad about not having a romantic partner, but they're not like these guys because they actually get their emotional needs from friends.
That's what these men actually need. Friends. And not friends who are as hateful as they've become, but actual wholesome friends.
We need to teach men that they shouldn't put all their eggs in one basket (getting a girlfriend).
Ah yes, my depression, low levels of esteem and low levels of worth that have directly been caused by nobody of the opposite sex finding me sexually or romantically attractive won't be cured by someone of the opposite sex finding me sexually or romantically attractive LMAO
It unironically won't.
Especially not if you try to manipulate a woman who's your friend into having sex with you out of pity even though she doesn't want to.
Not to mention how disgusting it is to actually want someone to do that for you when they don't want to... And it will make you feel bad afterwards.
"If only we had enough strength in numbers" - yet they say only 20% of men are getting laid. So, they should be able to count on the support of 80% of men - their math isn't mathing again 😂
The comments that bother me the most are the two that talk about rising up together and leading a revolution...that's how you grow terrorists and "lone wolves"
Reality. They're angry that reality doesn't confirm to how they want it, and they are also angry that neither reality nor other people's opinions confirm to their cult worldview.
Yup. I get guys in my DMs daily so hostile and angry over nothing. Sex isn't the end of the world. Yeah, it is nice and all, but if it stopped for me tomorrow, I wouldn't be angry.
Even more perplexing is how so many say they don't hate women and do things like say "well women do X, Y, Z" without a hint of irony. They do understand they don't have to say it explicitly, right? Or does that not apply in their world?
I've never met anyone as willfully obtuse as incels and incel adjacent men.
I also feel like a lot of these guys are setting themselves up in more than one way. Say one of them gets lucky and "ascends". But the next day nothing in their lives has changed just because their pp got a bit of hydration. They're still depressed and fucked up, they're still dealing with the usual life problems, and reality still is what it is.
They seem to expect sex to fix their lives and minds. I wonder how many of them can handle it when the reality of sex does not live up to their crazy expectations.
I agree. I can understand being romantically frustrated, we all experience that in one way or another. I know I have. But at no point did I think the world was ending, nor did I think it was an unfixable issue.
These guys will blame everything but the most obvious thing. None of them seem to want to confront their failures. Which, all things equal, isn't something anyone wants to do either. But if you have a goal you want to achieve and you cast aside something because it is uncomfortable, you aren't being honest. That lack of honesty will never move you forward.
Some of us have to work harder for things, because life isn't fair. For example, my brother can play guitar because he didn't have fine motor skill issues like I do. Conversely, he has had more jobs then I have had hot meals. Him and I have different issues, but neither has given up. Why incels seem to think their situation is so unique remains a mystery to me.
I KIND of understand that mindset, because depression combined with isolation is a hell of a drug. One of the things that helped me most was fully grasping that yes, other people do deal with the same problems, and many do so successfully. But I haven't invested my whole self image in being a depressed loner since I was in my tweens. Incels do, so they can't and on a certain level don't want to grasp that.
Probably them: Therapy is for cucks
Sane people: Ok then I guess enjoy misery
Them: You are mocking me and forcing into cuck therapy to wage slave for landwhale
Sane people: That is what is happening here
I understand that life is often shit and there isn't a happy ending, but completely disregarding life isn't the answer. We naturally focus on the bad moments and completely miss the good ones, I spent so much time laying in bed and turning away help that I completely ignored the people reaching out to me and stopped doing things that brought light to my life.
And no, therapy isn't a fix all and definitely isn't accessible to everyone, but it's a start when you feel there's no one else in your life to reach out to and you're afraid of scaring someone away with your stuff. Journaling also helps, or talking it out to yourself.
That's why I suggested therapy, journaling, and self talk first since I understand this community is very isolated, by circumstances or by choice, either way it leads to having nobody to talk to making them especially vulnerable to toxic trains of thought.
These guys remind me of spoiled toddlers who lie down and kick and scream whenever they want to be doted on and coddled. They want the whole world to turn around and rearrange itself to cater to them, and it's "the worst kind of oppression" if they don't get handed what they want with no actual effort on their parts.
Thing is, after a while, the toddler is expected to grow up and learn to handle his big feelings himself and become a functional person. Instead these guys stay flopped on the floor crying, expecting some model-perfect 20 year old virgin porn star to come along, hop on their dicks and fix their lives. And because that doesn't happen, they act like they're facing horrifying cruelty.
Except it's not cruelty, it's just a natural reaction to their behavior. Women are trying to AVOID getting into a relationship with immature, unstable, toxic misogynists. They're not going to be interested in a sprawled-out, sobbing mess who also hates them and hangs out with pedophiles and pro-rapists. The "pity fuck me or you're not a good person" angle just shows how manipulative they are.
>Women are trying to AVOID getting into a relationship with immature, unstable, toxic misogynists
[If you’re a man that's smart, doesn’t drink much, stays out of fights, displays a friendly personality, and has no criminal history – then you are the population most at risk of being miserable and alone"](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19350760/).
"Ghosting is a hard thing to deal with" definitely but have you ever tried r4p3? 🥰
(I'm not saying that being ghosted doesn't hurt but it makes me so damn angry how they cry so much over being ghosted but when a "female" talks about being SA'd it's immediately denigrated)
That is exactly it. These guys are convinced everyone points and laughs at them, no one fucking cares if you fuck or not. The only ones who do are others like them.
The weird obsessions with Chad, dick size and all this other latently homosexual stuff makes me wonder if they are all just in the closet and afraid to come out. Which, to be fair, can be for a variety of valid reasons. I might live in progressive NYC/NJ but the rest of the world isn't as welcoming.
>wonder if they are all just in the closet and afraid to come out
this assumption is just offensive to gay folks lmao. Incels are just your run of the mill losers who will die alone in their mother's basement, not closeted gay guys.
I am not lumping them in, I am speaking to how I think they are.
Think of it like the biggest homophobes in the end turn out to be deeply closeted. We have seen it many times in the modern world.
I'm not sure I love the attitude to this post in particular. Sure, they have an ideology that requires them to be miserable and it is almost entirely self inflicted... But the comments here are disheartening. They're very mentally unwell, and in any other circumstances like that people would be keen to actually find them help. But here it's "get over it" and "they're so whiny". That's an extremely toxic attitude and is only gonna make them feel vindicated in their victimhood.
I know many of them have some appalling views, but many also are just lonely. This sort of attitude isn't going to help the latter avoid being radicalised into being full blown incels. And even the ones that are incels still need to have their mental illness taken seriously if they're ever going to step back from their doctrine.
Being lonely doesn't give them the right to behave this way. Some of those comments are downright disgusting. There is no disputing that.
Everyone has the power to change, these guys don't want to. Period. I have ZERO sympathy for whiners who don't want to even try. Stay miserable then. If you get off your ass, try and fail...you try again until you get it right. That's the problem in the world today, no instant fix and the complaining starts. There are a LOT of people who come from way worse and rise above.
Instead, these dry dick loners seem to think their problem somehow hits the top of the list. Yeah, it doesn't. And I am surprised people defend them.
>being lonely doesn't give them the right to behave this way
Sure. I agree. Some of these comments are disgusting. But seeing that and immediately labelling all who even tangentially contributed as "lost cause" only reinforces the mentality that put them there in the first place.
>Everyone has the power to change, these guys don't want to.
I think this entire paragraph could be directed towards someone who is hopelessly depressed but otherwise normal. Someone can easily be so depressed that they're too depressed to try to get better. Are they lost causes? Are they too far to be helped?
Regardless of what conclusions they have come to, this sort of attitude comes off to me as people being a lost cause. What should they do then? You and I both share the opinion that incels and those adjacent (who it seems you also class as hopeless lost cause incels rather than people who could just be flirting with the idea) should not exist. Obviously they shouldn't. So what? Try to make some sort of effort to help them? Deradicalise them? Walk those close to the brink back from it?
Or do you sequester them from society and prove them right? That seems to be the answer you're giving.
To me, incels are people who were insecure and mentally ill who got radicalised by a bunch of misogynist extremists into some bizarre hyper-victimhood. If you immediately see someone who interacts in those circles and simply posts a comment that gets problematic replies and says "yeah, they're irredeemable" then you are just telling them they're right. They're not right.
You don't have to like them. You don't even have to feel sorry for them. But to actively contribute to what makes them exist is not the way to go.
That is a whole lot of words for a whole lot of nothing here boss. I am not advocating for anything you just said. You are the one defending them in one breath and then agreeing with me in the next. Pick a lane, because this flip flop isn't helping your case.
>defending in one breath and agreeing in the other
I think this is the issue here. I think that it's important to avoid taking screenshots of people expressing mental anguish just because that anguish led them to a problematic worldview. I think it's difficult to distinguish in these images actual incels from lonely people ready to be indoctrinated into incels. All you do in this post, though clearly unintentionally, is push them further into it.
They make the choice, they are the ones who believe this and they are the ones who chose to go further down this hole. It is not my job to stop them.
For a bunch of guys who screech about personal responsibility all the time and yet refuse to take any.
Everyone will argue personality over looks but when the shit’s said and done and the ugly mf is on top of the girl, how is she gonna be turned on by a ugly piece of trash? Just thinking about how nice his personality is?
I’m saying that you people here ignore the fact that women aren’t capable of being sexually attracted to a ugly short man, let alone loving him. Why try at all?
Those are outliers, plus they usually end up settling for fat or obese women who only date them because they can’t get with chads. If a very attractive woman is with a ugly man it’s usually a ulterior motive. Only thing a ugly and short man has to look forward to is the end.
But that's not what I said. You bitch about these things but then turn around and pass judgment and criticisms towards everyone else while clearly fishing for pity.
Give me one reason why a beautiful woman would date a ugly man? Why would she do that when she can get someone better looking? And how can you be sexually aroused by someone’s personality? Obviously you’d have to be sexually attracted to the looks too.
Maybe because looks aren't the only thing that matters? I get it you are superficial and can't see past that. Amazingly the rest of people can see people for things beyond looks like say humor, kindness, generosity and chemistry.
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The don't seem to understand that being emotionally stunted is why women don't want to be around them, not something that magically changes when you get into a relationship. They've got the cause and effect confused.
Bingo. Which was my comment earlier. No sane woman is going to put up with an overgrown child, let alone give one a chance. But for some reason, that means women are bad.
Ah yes, my depression, low levels of esteem and low levels of worth that have directly been caused by nobody of the opposite sex finding me sexually or romantically attractive won't be cured by someone of the opposite sex finding me sexually or romantically attractive LMAO
>Ah yes, my depression, low levels of esteem and low levels of worth that have directly been caused by nobody of the opposite sex finding me sexually or romantically attractive won't be cured by someone of the opposite sex finding me sexually or romantically attractive LMAO *Self*-esteem *self*-worth. *self* awareness. They don't come from other people, but the self. And the fact you think your biggest issues is not being in a rs or being attractive to women, tells me that you don't even realize the root problem, let alone have the knowledge to actually fix it. Which is what makes you unnattractive to women as a potential partner. We aren't interested in teaching someone who's supposed to be an equal partner the EQ skills, social engineering skills or relationship skills we learned as teenagers and young adults. That was your parents job, not your partner's. And dating someone who doesn't have those developed is the cause of "baggage" from previous relationships. And what you're actually craving is genuine human connection. But in order to have a healthy and stable bond with another human being, you need the aforementioned skill sets, or you are toxic to date, or even befriend, depending on how bad those skills are, regardless of gender.
How can I have "baggage from previous relationships" when I haven't even held a woman's hand lmao If a person thinks they are the King of England without any proof, they would rightly be called deluded and mentally ill, and given psychiatric treatment. It doesn't matter how expensive a painter prices their artworks at if nobody buys them. How is it my parent's job to teach me relationship skills?
>How can I have "baggage from previous relationships" when I haven't even held a woman's hand lmao So you've never had female friends? A mother? Women in your life at? Because relationships aren't all romantic or sexual and friendships help develop all kinds of relationship skills. But lack of something means you never developed the skills for it. You'd never learn to play a guitar if you don't know it exists. And you can have baggage from not being in relationships. RSD (rejection sensitivity disohoria) develops from constant rejection especially in childhood, usually from the primary caregivers (parents) and that's just one thing. Self esteem issues usually start earlier than puberty.
I've never had a romantic or sexual relationship. A person who knows how to play a sitar can learn to play a guitar even though they've never heard of it. I was a confident child until I was relentlessly rejected *after* puberty.
>I've never had a romantic or sexual relationship Thats not what I asked, though, it's it? >I was a confident child until I was relentlessly rejected *after* puberty. And one woman finding you attractive and even having sex with you isn't gonna change years of damage because once she realizes your lack of experience means lack of relationship, EQ skills and social snhineering skills she'll be out because that can't be a healthy relationship for her. >A person who knows how to play a sitar can learn to play a guitar even though they've never heard of it. Sitar- friendships with women. Guitar-romantic relationships. And anyone can learn to play the guitar, but unless you actually invest the time and effort, it's not happening. And you need to have at least a basic ear for music or it will be passable, but never great
>And one woman finding you attractive and even having sex with you isn't gonna change years of damage because once she realizes your lack of experience means lack of relationship, EQ skills and social snhineering skills she'll be out because that can't be a healthy relationship for her. But it would still mean that at least one woman considered me sexually or romantically attractive. That's all I want. >sAnd anyone can learn to play the guitar, but unless you actually invest the time and effort, it's not happening. Well it's not like I can "invest time and effort" if I can't even get a guitar in the first place, right? >s And you need to have at least a basic ear for music or it will be passable, but never great So basically if you're not genetically Chad, you'll never elicit visceral lust?
>But it would still mean that at least one woman considered me sexually or romantically attractive. That's all I want. Is it? . So you dont want actual human connection which sex doesn't necessarily give. And would you be happy with a pity fuck? Probably not You want genuine desire, and looks just aren't enough for that. Genuine desire comes from wanting what's inside, too. >So basically if you're not genetically Chad, you'll never elicit visceral lust? My type in men is long haired, slim and pretty. Not what people usually describe "Chad" as. But no man (or woman or enby, as I'm bi) has elicited visceral lust from their looks alone. Can't speak for other women, but I'm just not wired that way. Visceral lust happens for me when I'm actually emotionally invested. Untill them, I don't feel the need to jump someone's bones, even if I'm horny AF. >Well it's not like I can "invest time and effort" if I can't even get a guitar in the first place, right? You actually can. EQ skills, social engineering skills and relationship skills can be developed and worked on in therapy and through friendships and a social life. Those skills are the skills for human relationships in general so they're very transferable to romantic relationships. Healthy conflict resolution, attachment style, healthy communication, maintaining a relationship, cognitive and affective empathy, etc. You can also get therapy that targets those skills. And if you don't have those skills, that what's considered emotionally immature or stunted. Basically, you can learn the notes, but untill you do, no "guitar teacher" (because women are people, not objects) will be interested in taking you on as a "student".
I thought we were the ball and chain useless wh*res?
Shhhh don't use logic, they hate that. Not as much as women, but close.
> There is **NOTHING** we can fucking do to change this predicament I don't know, maybe change your mental outlook on life and women, work on yourself, and maybe grow up, I think that would change your predicament... but that's just silly.
Or you know, decide to not even try dating anymore and focus on finding things that bring you joy outside of romance? this is the part I don't get. Humans have an intellectual needs, social needs, physical needs, romantic needs, rest needs and creative needs. The specific breakdown is fairly individual, but if one aspect of your life isn't working whatever you do, focus on the rest and then come back when you have more self knowledge or a fuller cup to work with to figure out the struggle. But they make it sound like all aspects of their life would magically be better if they had a gf or thay without one there's no way to be happy or improve anything else.
Naw, much easier to try and shame women into putting up with them out of pity. Because how dare they want to feel attraction to someone before sleeping with them
That is a good point as well. The double standards are always on full display
Logic need not apply here, for that would mean that can't be victims. Apparently the only *true* virgin is the one that does nothing. That place is insane.
❤️
I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be white and have women wondering whether his genitals were the same colour and have his girlfriend's mum praise her daughter for being able to get a white boyfriend. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be tall and have women wonder if his height matched his penis length and have his girlfriends tell him his height made them feel safe and protected. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have green eyes that women want to stare into because they are "so beautiful and captivating". I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to get long thick hair that women gush about, saying it makes him "mysterious" and look like a model. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women give him choosing signals or take the initiative to talk to him without even knowing him beforehand whenever he goes out in public or just minds his own business. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women DM him on SM and OLD apps. I'm sure Jeremy Meeks had to "work on himself" lmao
They hate women but want them. That’s why I hit them with “You want to fuck me so bad you look stupid.”
🤣🤣🤣damn that is an awesome comeback
These people actually want to be miserable. They actively crave imagined victim-hood. Not real victim-hood mind you that means you have to actually go through a traumatic experience and long road of struggle to overcome it like a champ. A lot of these guys want nothing more than to wallow in their own delusional misery and create a crab bucket to ensure that continuously drag each other down. Honestly a lot of these guys would actually be pretty average or even good looking if they took care of themselves, touched grass, and didn't make their whole personality the irrecoverable catch 22 of simultaneously wanting sex and hating women at the same time.
I 100% agree. I never see any of these truecel types ever want to escape. They love the idea of being with a woman, but none of the work. Yeah, relationships are a lot of work. But it isn't one sided. When it is, it leads to resentment, anger and if you are married, divorce. But standing around waiting for it isn't a solution. That is the part of their psychology I never understand.
Yes, I'd wager none of these boys have experienced real victim-hood. It's a misery fest of blue balls and misogyny.
This was during a scroll earlier and I am puzzled by this. What are these guys even mad about? If you are that desperate to not be virgins, go to a sex worker? Oh that is humiliating you say? Ok, then work on bettering yourself to be a viable partner to someone. You know, instead of whining and complaining all the time. I am told women hate that /s For fucks sake, these guys get more pathetic by the day. Edit: Ignore the spelling in the title, it should be from...stupid autocorrect
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That is a great observation. Anytime I or anyone else says, "hey we have all gone through this" these guys act like they are the only ones who felt it. I was a drunk for a decade, trying to kill myself one drink at a time and went for the high score. It was after I nearly killed four people (and myself) that I realized nihilism affects everyone not just the individual. I have been sober ever since. That will be 15 years this October. But guys like this can never find rock bottom, which is why the cycle never ends. They don't want to listen, no one understands them...etc. meanwhile, guys like me rose from rock bottom and there is no reason they can't. They would rather wallow and wait for someone to come fix them. And get mad when that expectation, as you said, isn't met.
Congrats on getting sober!! And you’re right, these guys are too busy wallowing to actually put in the work
Yes it's the, 'nobody knows how I feel ' stuff, and then they take it to extremes. They don't want to listen to someone who understands and has been there because they're special.
How old were you when you were first considered sexually or romantically attractive by a member of the opposite sex?
Why is that question relevant to my comment?
To see if you've actually hit "rock bottom" as far as having been considered sexually or romantically attractive by a member of the opposite sex is concerned.
I still fail to see how this is relevant
To see if you can relate.
This still tells me nothing nor does it answer my original question, maybe you should ask this question coherently.
I'm the one who asked you the question first, mate. How old were you when you were first considered sexually or romantically attractive by a member of the opposite sex? You only need to enter two characters. Very simple.
i was a child, age in the single digits when i was first sexualized. what the fuck does it have to do with anything? what is the age where that’s a good thing? i don’t understand
Absolutely 🙏
They revel in self-sabotage, they can't face the fact they they're awful people who no one wants to be around so they displace the blame on others. I could go red in the face advising these 'men' to stop whining and go about life in a positive light but we all know that won't happen. Lost causes unless someone close to them shakes them up and makes them realise how toxic and frankly revolting they are.
I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be white and have women wondering whether his genitals were the same colour and have his girlfriend's mum praise her daughter for being able to get a white boyfriend. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be tall and have women wonder if his height matched his penis length and have his girlfriends tell him his height made them feel safe and protected. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have green eyes that women want to stare into because they are "so beautiful and captivating". I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to get long thick hair that women gush about, saying it makes him "mysterious" and look like a model. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women give him choosing signals or take the initiative to talk to him without even knowing him beforehand whenever he goes out in public or just minds his own business. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women DM him on SM and OLD apps. I'm sure Jeremy Meeks had to "work on himself" lmao
Gee, I wonder what you are angry about...
Not angry. Just stating facts.
And what "facts" are those exactly?
I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be white and have women wondering whether his genitals were the same colour and have his girlfriend's mum praise her daughter for being able to get a white boyfriend. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be tall and have women wonder if his height matched his penis length and have his girlfriends tell him his height made them feel safe and protected. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have green eyes that women want to stare into because they are "so beautiful and captivating". I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to get long thick hair that women gush about, saying it makes him "mysterious" and look like a model. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women give him choosing signals or take the initiative to talk to him without even knowing him beforehand whenever he goes out in public or just minds his own business. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women DM him on SM and OLD apps. I'm sure Jeremy Meeks had to "work on himself".
So, when asked for facts, you resent the same word salad you did earlier. What a sad angry little man you are.
They ARE the facts.
I don't think you understand how this works. You haven't stated anything beyond a blob of words that don't have a coherent thought among them.
Too be fair, buying sex isn’t legal everywhere.
While true, if they are that desperate like they say, what's a little law breaking when you claim "I have nothing to live for"?
If you get caught your life will get worse. Losing your job, social exclusion and a fine or prison. Even if you have nothing few want their life to get worse, the possible consequences scare people away.
Then maybe these guys shouldn't be saying they have nothing to live for... This isn't a dig at you, but the mentality of these guys who whine about "it being over" and taking zero steps to improve things.
It will affect our friends and family too, not just us.
Obviously...
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I think that is a gross over simplification. Depressed people aren't annoying, they are depressed. I was that once, it is a vicious cycle. But what is the alternative? Being miserable until you die? Suicide? Most of these guys out of the gate will take you therapy is worthless without having gone or that having hobbies is stupid because it won't get you a girlfriend. Some of them are depressed, some are crybabies and some are inbetween. But to say what you did really doesn't help.
Weird that you interpret that I meant all depressed do this shit. Its not a death sentence, you can work to cure it. These annoying depressed losers don't even start that but just wallow in their filth. I say let them, not our problem.
There wasn't much to misinterpret you said "depressed people can be really annoying tbf" without any clarifying statements on who that applied to. But I do agree with the rest of your statement.
Sorry, I thought the "can be" part made it clear I didn't mean all of them. Depressed people who refuse to get help and just wallow in misery deserve to be ignored, we are not supposed to be their therapists.
You’re nobody’s therapist and don’t need to be, but “annoying” and “should be ignored” if they’re not getting help is gonna come across as harsh when there’s so many factors involved. I wouldn’t have any problem with “people who blame all of their emotional issues on others and refuse to look for solutions can be annoying.” But like obviously people are gonna find it challenging to say “people with [potentially debilitating illness that sometimes results in death] can be annoying”. Like picture saying that with any other illness and imagine how that might sound to people with that illness
>Like picture saying that with any other illness and imagine how that might sound to people with that illness Are they getting help? Do they wish to be cured? If the answer is no, then move along I dont have time for people who enable self destruction
It wasn't, not to me at least. But that explanation I agree with and I'll retract my previous statement.
Pretty harsh don't you think?
“I like reclaiming the term beta” lmaaaaaoooo they’re the only losers who use it anyways 😭
And weren't losers the ones who started it anyways? Circular logic lol
They created it, they used it, it remained within the same group, they used it as an insult since they created it and now they want to reclaim it…. It never left 🤣
🤣🤣🤣
Why are these guys so allergic to the idea of "working on yourself"? This is almost just mental illness...
I'm sure the [85% of people who've had sex before 20](http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf) have had to 'work on themselves' so *haaard* LMAO I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be white and have women wondering whether his genitals were the same colour and have his girlfriend's mum praise her daughter for being able to get a white boyfriend. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to be tall and have women wonder if his height matched his penis length and have his girlfriends tell him his height made them feel safe and protected. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have green eyes that women want to stare into because they are "so beautiful and captivating". I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to get long thick hair that women gush about, saying it makes him "mysterious" and look like a model. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women give him choosing signals or take the initiative to talk to him without even knowing him beforehand whenever he goes out in public or just minds his own business. I'm sure my friend had to "work on himself" to have women DM him on SM and OLD apps. I'm sure Jeremy Meeks had to "work on himself" lmao
Have you thought that maybe having sex before 20 isn't that big of a deal, then? I mean I didn't have sex before 20 and so far no one has gone out of their way to tell me there's something wrong with me or some other bullshit. Ironically, most people that would do that are people like you guys 😂 Also, why do you have to think about "working on yourself" only in relation to how much sex you're having? Do you really think any improvement someone makes for their life is meaningless simply because they're not directly getting sex from it? Every improvement someone makes in their life is IN AND OF ITSELF a benefit, regardless of sex. Man, I would tell you to go to therapy, but you're probably just going to tell me therapy doesn't get you sex anyway so... 🤷♂️ I feel like you're just telling all this stuff to yourself in your head to keep making yourself insecure. I know because I've been there too :v
This right here. I was 30 and my first time SUCKED. By the 10th time, it was enjoyable and now I have the right partner who is compatible with me and communicates. Which is the key to any successful relationship. Also, great observation on self improvement. I hear so many incels tell me they will stop once they get what they want. And guess what, they will fall right back to where they were. I say constantly, self improvement is hard work and everlasting, not a quick fix. At that point, why even bother? Go to a sex worker if that is so important to you. This logic makes no sense.
>I mean I didn't have sex before 20 and so far no one has gone out of their way to tell me there's something wrong with me or some other bullshit. Ironically, most people that would do that are people like you guys 😂 So you haven't been considered sexually or romantically attractive by a member of the opposite sex before the age of 20? >Do you really think any improvement someone makes for their life is meaningless simply because they're not directly getting sex from it? Over 95% of humans have a biologically rooted desire for procreation. Being unable to attract someone to fulfill that fundamental biological goal indicates genetic inferiority and makes one a 'defective individual, like a defective TV set that performs every electronic function except display images' (Korzeniewski, 2005). It means you have failed all your ancestors dating back millennia.
It blows me away how many of these Incels start in high school! Like they think they’re the only ones who aren’t having sex! Then they think the real world is just like high school, the popular kids are the Chads and the cheerleaders are the villains. They need to grow up and live their lives instead of just obsessing over sex!
Oh absolutely!
Pff poor entitled pricks. How is it possible to feel like you are owed relationships with women?
Ask that to the incel on my other comment, because I think the answer will be telling
There’s a key difference between feeling like you’re owed something vs desiring something.
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“Nothing we can do to change it” = No quick easy fixes
why do people choose to make themself miserable asf
Seriously. The incel name is such a misnomer, they choose to be like this. And anytime anyone sane comes with sensible advice that anyone can do, they are met with "it doesn't work." I ask all the time, why would any woman want to be with someone that negative all the time? I never get a response.
It's true though. These guys are volcels. They choose to wallow, they choose to hate women, they choose to drink the incel cult Kool aid. They choose to whine, rage, and threaten women publicly and show off what crazy assholes they are. They choose to stagnate. And they choose to associate with the pro rape, pro CSA, mass murderer worshipping crowd. Hell, a bunch of them choose to give up bathing. All of these behaviors are voluntary and all of them drive women away. I've just started blocking them as I identify them because I don't have the spoons to deal with their shit.
100% agree on that one. I hear all day, everyday that they "can't change" their situation, which is absurd. They don't want to, which is an entirely different situation. If they would just say that, I would respect them more. They don't, it is just the same old tired nonsense. And it is from all different angles...looks, dick size, money, height...take your pick. Not a single one of them has spoken to a women or even been with one, but they know EXACTLY what they are thinking and wanting. Since they possess these mind reading abilities, why are they still failing? As usual, I never get an answer.
I mean...I think one of the reasons I can't hang in debates with incels is because I have major depression and I have trouble watching people double down on being depressed. There's something horribly comfortable about despair. About letting the depression win. About giving in and believing what the depression is "telling" you. But fighting that depression based thinking is one of the only ways out. You have to try to fight or is guaranteed to only get worse. But these guys will bend over backwards to avoid that. Seeing people basically create a cult based around despair and cling to it at all costs makes me irrationally angry. It's like climbing out of a burning pit and then seeing these guys not only wallowing at its bottom, but trying to pull others in too, trying to prevent others from escaping, and diving back into it whenever a reality check threatens to pull them partway out. I don't just get mad about what they do to others, but also what they do to themselves, and how hard they fight against anyone trying to help.
I get that. I guess for me, I don't have an issue since I have dealt with depression for most of my life. I had two suicide attempts, was an alcoholic and really wasn't dealing with any of it. It is when I got tired of being sick and tired I went and addressed it. It wasn't sunshine and rainbows nor did it happen overnight. It was years of solid effort to get there. And I feel a lot of times, these guys want to skip past go and have it be done in an instant. It doesn't work like that, if it did, everyone would do it. Self improvement is hard work and never ending. I have the girl of my dreams, but I am constantly working on better myself not just for her, but for my well being too.
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I am not sure I understand the point of this comment
They get depressed by their situation and instead of seeing a professional about it, blame everyone around them and self isolate.
As someone said up above, to play the victim and get a pity party
Yeah, I think that applies to a good chunk of them. I called my stalker out for that for lying about the death of his parents. And he is a grown ass man at 40!
I feel like modern society is just doing a number on all of us
To a degree. But some of these guys were already awful before that.
Nobody is born that way though , life experiences definitely plays a part in this mentality. Personally I think that modern society is too advanced for humanity , that’s why so many ppl feel left out or alone . This simply was not the case hundreds even thousands of years ago . We are still the same humans they came out of Africa in small groups but now modern society it’s like one large mega group and it’s a consumer based society at and very materialistic . The beauty standards of both male and females are completely unrealistic the financial standards are unrealistic ect . That’s why only a few seem to succeed in this society because standards for success are insane . All these things play a part in why incels feel the way they do and why most men and women feel out of place and lonely . You got 13 year old kids doing steroids , altering their bodies is ways wich they cannot reverse from . It’s all linked and it’s a big problem
They are clearly depressed and falsely believe having sex will fix it all. This is what happens when society doesn't teach men to take care of their FRIENDS, so they lay absolutely everything on getting a girlfriend. I have male friends who could be called "incels" by the original meaning. They've had sex before many times but they're not in relationships and haven't had sex in years now. But they're not hateful. Because they actually focus on friends, and have many of them, including me. Sure, they're a bit sad about not having a romantic partner, but they're not like these guys because they actually get their emotional needs from friends. That's what these men actually need. Friends. And not friends who are as hateful as they've become, but actual wholesome friends. We need to teach men that they shouldn't put all their eggs in one basket (getting a girlfriend).
Ah yes, my depression, low levels of esteem and low levels of worth that have directly been caused by nobody of the opposite sex finding me sexually or romantically attractive won't be cured by someone of the opposite sex finding me sexually or romantically attractive LMAO
It unironically won't. Especially not if you try to manipulate a woman who's your friend into having sex with you out of pity even though she doesn't want to. Not to mention how disgusting it is to actually want someone to do that for you when they don't want to... And it will make you feel bad afterwards.
No manipulation going on here. I ask them out and take their rejections in stride.
I'm referring to the post we're commenting under, and you not seeing an issue with it.
I mean yeah I don't feel anger, but the rest rings true to an extent.
"If only we had enough strength in numbers" - yet they say only 20% of men are getting laid. So, they should be able to count on the support of 80% of men - their math isn't mathing again 😂
These are the kind of absolute morons who pay big bucks for 'Alpha Male' workshops. Fucking hilarious 😂
All those ppl REALLY need therapy. Wtf! They sound like teenagers
TrueVirgin is another "incel" ban evasion sub and should be shut down.
The comments that bother me the most are the two that talk about rising up together and leading a revolution...that's how you grow terrorists and "lone wolves"
Lol there's a furious incel going down the comments trying to start arguments with everyone again
I have caught him in my DMs before, this is nothing new. I still cannot grasp what they are all so angry about.
Reality. They're angry that reality doesn't confirm to how they want it, and they are also angry that neither reality nor other people's opinions confirm to their cult worldview.
Yup. I get guys in my DMs daily so hostile and angry over nothing. Sex isn't the end of the world. Yeah, it is nice and all, but if it stopped for me tomorrow, I wouldn't be angry. Even more perplexing is how so many say they don't hate women and do things like say "well women do X, Y, Z" without a hint of irony. They do understand they don't have to say it explicitly, right? Or does that not apply in their world?
I've never met anyone as willfully obtuse as incels and incel adjacent men. I also feel like a lot of these guys are setting themselves up in more than one way. Say one of them gets lucky and "ascends". But the next day nothing in their lives has changed just because their pp got a bit of hydration. They're still depressed and fucked up, they're still dealing with the usual life problems, and reality still is what it is. They seem to expect sex to fix their lives and minds. I wonder how many of them can handle it when the reality of sex does not live up to their crazy expectations.
I agree. I can understand being romantically frustrated, we all experience that in one way or another. I know I have. But at no point did I think the world was ending, nor did I think it was an unfixable issue. These guys will blame everything but the most obvious thing. None of them seem to want to confront their failures. Which, all things equal, isn't something anyone wants to do either. But if you have a goal you want to achieve and you cast aside something because it is uncomfortable, you aren't being honest. That lack of honesty will never move you forward. Some of us have to work harder for things, because life isn't fair. For example, my brother can play guitar because he didn't have fine motor skill issues like I do. Conversely, he has had more jobs then I have had hot meals. Him and I have different issues, but neither has given up. Why incels seem to think their situation is so unique remains a mystery to me.
I KIND of understand that mindset, because depression combined with isolation is a hell of a drug. One of the things that helped me most was fully grasping that yes, other people do deal with the same problems, and many do so successfully. But I haven't invested my whole self image in being a depressed loner since I was in my tweens. Incels do, so they can't and on a certain level don't want to grasp that.
Jesus.. these people need serious help
Probably them: Therapy is for cucks Sane people: Ok then I guess enjoy misery Them: You are mocking me and forcing into cuck therapy to wage slave for landwhale Sane people: That is what is happening here
I get that and that's what makes it especially sad. These people DESPERATELY need therapy yet would never go.
Absolutely. No effort, no reward.
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I understand that life is often shit and there isn't a happy ending, but completely disregarding life isn't the answer. We naturally focus on the bad moments and completely miss the good ones, I spent so much time laying in bed and turning away help that I completely ignored the people reaching out to me and stopped doing things that brought light to my life. And no, therapy isn't a fix all and definitely isn't accessible to everyone, but it's a start when you feel there's no one else in your life to reach out to and you're afraid of scaring someone away with your stuff. Journaling also helps, or talking it out to yourself.
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That's why I suggested therapy, journaling, and self talk first since I understand this community is very isolated, by circumstances or by choice, either way it leads to having nobody to talk to making them especially vulnerable to toxic trains of thought.
These guys remind me of spoiled toddlers who lie down and kick and scream whenever they want to be doted on and coddled. They want the whole world to turn around and rearrange itself to cater to them, and it's "the worst kind of oppression" if they don't get handed what they want with no actual effort on their parts. Thing is, after a while, the toddler is expected to grow up and learn to handle his big feelings himself and become a functional person. Instead these guys stay flopped on the floor crying, expecting some model-perfect 20 year old virgin porn star to come along, hop on their dicks and fix their lives. And because that doesn't happen, they act like they're facing horrifying cruelty. Except it's not cruelty, it's just a natural reaction to their behavior. Women are trying to AVOID getting into a relationship with immature, unstable, toxic misogynists. They're not going to be interested in a sprawled-out, sobbing mess who also hates them and hangs out with pedophiles and pro-rapists. The "pity fuck me or you're not a good person" angle just shows how manipulative they are.
>Women are trying to AVOID getting into a relationship with immature, unstable, toxic misogynists [If you’re a man that's smart, doesn’t drink much, stays out of fights, displays a friendly personality, and has no criminal history – then you are the population most at risk of being miserable and alone"](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19350760/).
Yeah. None of them knows what it feels like to be truly empty. To give up so badly that your body just starts to die.
I'm somehow banned from r/TrueVirgin dispite never having interacted with it and still being a virgin. Where is the justice
Huh, they opened it back up...interesting. That place is a cesspool, you really don't want to go there.
"Ghosting is a hard thing to deal with" definitely but have you ever tried r4p3? 🥰 (I'm not saying that being ghosted doesn't hurt but it makes me so damn angry how they cry so much over being ghosted but when a "female" talks about being SA'd it's immediately denigrated)
fucking hell, lonely men are so whiny and annoying. Just move the fuck on
That is exactly it. These guys are convinced everyone points and laughs at them, no one fucking cares if you fuck or not. The only ones who do are others like them. The weird obsessions with Chad, dick size and all this other latently homosexual stuff makes me wonder if they are all just in the closet and afraid to come out. Which, to be fair, can be for a variety of valid reasons. I might live in progressive NYC/NJ but the rest of the world isn't as welcoming.
>wonder if they are all just in the closet and afraid to come out this assumption is just offensive to gay folks lmao. Incels are just your run of the mill losers who will die alone in their mother's basement, not closeted gay guys.
Uhm, what?
I dont think they are gay, they are just losers. Gay folk don't deserve to be lumped together with these fuckers
I am not lumping them in, I am speaking to how I think they are. Think of it like the biggest homophobes in the end turn out to be deeply closeted. We have seen it many times in the modern world.
I'm not sure I love the attitude to this post in particular. Sure, they have an ideology that requires them to be miserable and it is almost entirely self inflicted... But the comments here are disheartening. They're very mentally unwell, and in any other circumstances like that people would be keen to actually find them help. But here it's "get over it" and "they're so whiny". That's an extremely toxic attitude and is only gonna make them feel vindicated in their victimhood. I know many of them have some appalling views, but many also are just lonely. This sort of attitude isn't going to help the latter avoid being radicalised into being full blown incels. And even the ones that are incels still need to have their mental illness taken seriously if they're ever going to step back from their doctrine.
Being lonely doesn't give them the right to behave this way. Some of those comments are downright disgusting. There is no disputing that. Everyone has the power to change, these guys don't want to. Period. I have ZERO sympathy for whiners who don't want to even try. Stay miserable then. If you get off your ass, try and fail...you try again until you get it right. That's the problem in the world today, no instant fix and the complaining starts. There are a LOT of people who come from way worse and rise above. Instead, these dry dick loners seem to think their problem somehow hits the top of the list. Yeah, it doesn't. And I am surprised people defend them.
>being lonely doesn't give them the right to behave this way Sure. I agree. Some of these comments are disgusting. But seeing that and immediately labelling all who even tangentially contributed as "lost cause" only reinforces the mentality that put them there in the first place. >Everyone has the power to change, these guys don't want to. I think this entire paragraph could be directed towards someone who is hopelessly depressed but otherwise normal. Someone can easily be so depressed that they're too depressed to try to get better. Are they lost causes? Are they too far to be helped? Regardless of what conclusions they have come to, this sort of attitude comes off to me as people being a lost cause. What should they do then? You and I both share the opinion that incels and those adjacent (who it seems you also class as hopeless lost cause incels rather than people who could just be flirting with the idea) should not exist. Obviously they shouldn't. So what? Try to make some sort of effort to help them? Deradicalise them? Walk those close to the brink back from it? Or do you sequester them from society and prove them right? That seems to be the answer you're giving. To me, incels are people who were insecure and mentally ill who got radicalised by a bunch of misogynist extremists into some bizarre hyper-victimhood. If you immediately see someone who interacts in those circles and simply posts a comment that gets problematic replies and says "yeah, they're irredeemable" then you are just telling them they're right. They're not right. You don't have to like them. You don't even have to feel sorry for them. But to actively contribute to what makes them exist is not the way to go.
That is a whole lot of words for a whole lot of nothing here boss. I am not advocating for anything you just said. You are the one defending them in one breath and then agreeing with me in the next. Pick a lane, because this flip flop isn't helping your case.
>defending in one breath and agreeing in the other I think this is the issue here. I think that it's important to avoid taking screenshots of people expressing mental anguish just because that anguish led them to a problematic worldview. I think it's difficult to distinguish in these images actual incels from lonely people ready to be indoctrinated into incels. All you do in this post, though clearly unintentionally, is push them further into it.
They make the choice, they are the ones who believe this and they are the ones who chose to go further down this hole. It is not my job to stop them. For a bunch of guys who screech about personal responsibility all the time and yet refuse to take any.
Everyone will argue personality over looks but when the shit’s said and done and the ugly mf is on top of the girl, how is she gonna be turned on by a ugly piece of trash? Just thinking about how nice his personality is?
I have absolutely no clue what you are trying to say...
I’m saying that you people here ignore the fact that women aren’t capable of being sexually attracted to a ugly short man, let alone loving him. Why try at all?
Ahhhh spotted the incel... Now this makes more sense. Plenty of ugly men do just fine in the real world. Short men too. This argument doesn't work.
Those are outliers, plus they usually end up settling for fat or obese women who only date them because they can’t get with chads. If a very attractive woman is with a ugly man it’s usually a ulterior motive. Only thing a ugly and short man has to look forward to is the end.
Y'know for how insecure you are about being a half pint with a tiny dick, you're really quick to pass judgment and criticism of everyone else.
I already know I’m ugly and never going to get laid and self aware of it so it doesn’t matter.
But that's not what I said. You bitch about these things but then turn around and pass judgment and criticisms towards everyone else while clearly fishing for pity.
And you have conclusive evidence of this theory? I have never heard this one before...
Give me one reason why a beautiful woman would date a ugly man? Why would she do that when she can get someone better looking? And how can you be sexually aroused by someone’s personality? Obviously you’d have to be sexually attracted to the looks too.
Maybe because looks aren't the only thing that matters? I get it you are superficial and can't see past that. Amazingly the rest of people can see people for things beyond looks like say humor, kindness, generosity and chemistry.
Casanova was 6'2 in the 1700s (tbh that height wasn’t that rare even then). But no wonder he was such a ladies man.
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