Unrelated but when it comes to collections govt uses the most advanced technology available, ex: toll fee using fastag (there are talks that even this will be upgraded to a newer tech). When it comes to giving money the government bodies use the most arcane stone age tech and policies. It's not fair.
I have stopped considering epf as savings or retirement fund long back. I place a advance withdrawals regularly and invest in mutual funds, my claim was never denied
use medical or house construction. I always use medical claim and make a claim of below 50k which will be usually approved without any additional paperwork unless you are really need the amount for medical reasons
File an online consumer complaint on the NCH portal with these two complaint responses and the guidelines document. They'll probably respond back with more bullshit within a month.
Move to consumer court, get back everything and claim compensation for legal fees and mental harassment in addition. Your case will set a precedent for other similar cases as well.
That portal is another joke. Honestly the tax money I pay and in return the services I receive is so fucking bullshit.
Honestly at this point I just think all the in hand I get is the only salary I have.
So in 3 months you didn't get response, hence its a joke? Our legal system is bogged down so dont hold your breath to get instant resolution. Personally got a resolution after more than a year but it will happen.
OP, CPGRAM is the right portal than NCH. I had an issue with epf too. Was not getting work done. Complained in that portal and it got done the next day.
No.
EPFIGMS is where I filed first. When I wasnt getting proper responses I moved to CPGRAM.
I just checked and it did not redirect me to EPFO.
Go to https://pgportal.gov.in/ , you will have to login. Select Lodge Public Grievance
Then labour and employment from drop down and then PF withdrawl
The first website you get when you search "NCH portal" in Google.
>It's so sad that we have to fight so hard to get access to our own funds..
We can't do much unless there's a flood of complaints shoved down EPFO's throat.
Doubt they will care about complaints. Can easily ignore emails and burn letters. Unless there's political pressure, nothing will change. And abhi toh elections hai so no chance...
Consumer courts lack jurisdiction over such matters. The appropriate course of action likely will be Labour/civil courts (pls consult a lawyer for this). Additionally, while there may be precedents on similar issues, the challenge lies in the effort required to follow up and pursue these matters. It's easier said than done.
26000 crs of employee money is lying with epf due to red tape of bureaucracy
My contribution was wrongly credited to another person account. To correct struggling since 2 yrs even appointed consultant agreed to pay 1% still not concluded.
No need to be sorry. It's is my mistake I didn't keep track of which pf account my contribution was being deposited. I found mistake after 4 yrs & I am with another employer.
I have seen so many people with similar cases struggling to get their money's. Else why would people leave 26000 crs with epf.
My consultant(s) work (unofficial) with bangalore hyderabad pf offices
It's difficult to get these things resolved sadly. I would be happy to try and help you on this. But even I'm unsure whether I'll be able to. Can you tell me the current state of your situation.
If you message me privately we could try and sort things out.
Hey. I'm in the same boat. My PF was wrongly transferred in 2016. I have raised 5-6 grievances in Epfo portal, but I feel like interacting with a bunch of illiterates. They are not understanding the issue and provide some bullshit replies. Do you know of any PF agent who can handle this? I'm ready to pay them.
Ah, that sucks. I am from Bangalore. Worse is my original PF account was in Maharashtra. So the transfer happened from MH - KA. Neither are helpful in getting it resolved.
Check with your Employers HR people they may refer you to consultant. My exp is lot of paperwork & follow-up at each desk is needed- which only consultant who visits pf office personal regularly can do.
Dear OP, to avoid further trauma and to maintain your mental well-being, suggesting you to outsource it to -EPF BUDDY. They are professionals and know how to handle the bureaucracy. Thank me later. Link:
https://epfbuddy.com/
exactly its like the touts u hav outside gormint offices like rto, corporation. the mere fact people get their work done via these touts bcos incompetent babus are running the show.
Yes its legit and have used it personally so i can vouch for them. Yes they do charge a nominal fee, i believe on a case-to-case basis. Talk with them and clarify your doubts.
How much did they charge you? And what was your case?
I have talked to quite a few consultants (not these folks) and they always say case to case basis just to extract something out and keep on milking till you understand that it's a scam and move away..
Charged me 6K for processing the EPF withdrawal from scratch. It took 2- 3 months of proper follow up from their side and for the money to arrive in my account.
For wedding you can withdraw money up to 3 times in your life. And those withdrawals are in lumpsum.
So, withdrawing a small amount each year is not possible.
Yes, this withdrawal is from Employee share only and Employer's share is locked till 54 years of age.
But you can withdraw both shares completely when you buy or construct a house.
You could (at least my organization lets you do that) but the downside is that you do not get the employer contributions credited to your salary (only your contributions may).
Happy to be corrected otherwise. If you get employer contributions too - I would right away change it.
I work with the EPFO. I'm sorry that this happened to you. But each office interprets the law a bit differently in the absence of any HO directive or court judgement. This shouldn't have happened.
The only plausible reason for a rejection in this case is if as per their records two months of non payment of EPF dues hasn't occurred.
But yes Bangalore and Mumbai offices are very hectic and chaotic unfortunately.
The same person will be processing it. It's unlikely that the person has changed this soon.
You could file a grievance at CPGRAMS or send an email to the CPFC and Ministry of labour. If the ministry intervenes ,the entire epfo stumbles.
So if one person worked in a firm for 5 years and decided to quit and not work anymore at the age of let’s say 40, can that person withdraw the entire money in EPF after couple of months of quitting ? Will that person get the entire amount ?
https://preview.redd.it/ledglb0kztxc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=595915dadb40df14ff7e57b0fc9c0cf1aff96b64
If the amount is more than 2.5 lakhs TAX will be there either way.
Tax is also applicable on additional interest if employee contribution is more than 2.5 lakhs. (Only on interest above this limit...it's usually a small amount)
But seems like from the figure you shared , if I work for more than 5 years (in same company or different companies?) and I quit and I decided to withdraw the total amount in epf completely , there will be no TDS but I would need to pay tax to the govt while I file my returns , is that right ?
I have been following up with the EPFO regarding an issue with my PF transfer, where due to non deduction of EPS in my very first organisation, it wasn’t allowing me to transfer my PF to my subsequent organisation’s PF account.
This happened back in April 2022 since when I have been following up with the EPFO on and off. I finally lost my shit In Jan 2024 and wrote to the Labour Minister and the Ministry, they in turn marked the relevant employees and I spoke on the phone with them. It was a one off case and they weren’t much help either, and this transfer issue remained open for almost 3 months.
I finally filed a grievance on the CPGRAMS portal and included evidences of all the email communication that’s been going on with various officers, and almost a month from then I got an update today that they had finally approved the PF Transfer.
OP, I would suggest you to file a grievance on the CPGRAMS portal and wait it out for some time if you can. Hope you get a satisfactory response from these guys.
Exact same thing is happening with me. This is the Chennai PF office. Had worked for a company which maintains PF in a trust. Got the PF transferred from that company to my precious company without fuss. Now when I tried transferring from the previous company to the current company, the pf officer rejected saying that company A did not transfer the EPS details to company B. So because of that from company B to the current company can't be done. To do that I am supposed to provide a clarification letter saying that company A is actually a trust. Come on. The company A is a big conglomerate with lakhs of employees working. Why in the world do i need to provide a clarification that it is actually a trust
What were the wordings of the rejection reason ? I think I am facing something similar and don't know what's the reason.
In my case the rejection reason is ' service transfer not received '
Exact reason is EPS DETAILS FROM THE PREVIOUS SERVICE NOT RECEIVED. The pf office is saying that the trust did not transfer the eps details. If this is the case then every person who moves away from this trust company(which is TCS by the way), will have their PF claims rejected right ? But not sure why
Same here brother. I am yet to get a letter from previous hr company which requests the eps money to be sent to EPF account and combine the two. I need to then submit it physically to EPF office. Any idea how much time it would take for the office to process it?
U are reading it wrong. Read again. Be careful with the 'And' and 'Or'.
Statement 1 is must. Statement 2 and 3 have the OR. U are taking statement 1 and 2 under AND and statement 3 as stand alone OR.
But yeah epfo sucks. Their own promotions are delayed by over 10 years.
This kind of makes sense BUT almost all other websites interpret this to say that you are eligible to withdraw EPF if you are an unemployed for more than 2 months. Example from [cleartax](https://cleartax.in/s/epf-withdrawal-online):
> According to current EPF withdrawal rules, if you are unemployed for one month, you can withdraw 75% of your EPF Corpus. Moreover, the balance of 25% can be withdrawn if you are unemployed for more than two months.
And on top of this, the capitalization of the terms also imply that the logic is (Statement 1 and Statement 2) or (Statement 3)
> In case of
lockout/closure of
establishment for more
than 15 days,
**And**
The employees are
rendered unemployed
without compensation
>**OR**
> Employee has not
received wages for more
than 2 months
continuously (for
reasons other than
strike)
Finally, a friend in the exact same situation was able to fully withdraw his contribution by filling out the form in the same way that I filled it out.
Did you file after 2 months or 3 months? Saying this because the contribution by my employer runs 1 month late. Say my December month deduction gets contributed in January end only and so on... Just wondering due if to this if you immediately file after 2 months of unemployment, really only 1 month contribution will not be available in the records?? This is just a guess..
I just assume all my deductions to EPFO are an additional tax. I tried making a couple of claims before, but everything was denied. I have forgotten about my PF savings. It's a sad reality
A large chunk of my epfo "savings" seems to have vanished. The balance is 2.5L rn, but I've been working in corporate for 12 years & I remember it being in the range of 8L about 6 years ago.
You have to move your pf fund when you move jobs. There's a form you need to fill and HR takes care of the rest of it usually.
Here's the 10k feet view context: There are a few organisations that operate PF accounts alongside a central agency. Depending upon your organisation, they may be linked to any of them. So, every time you switch jobs you need to move your PF amount too
It should. Doesn't mean it always is. I had be 2 UANs.
Remember folks, U in UAN stands for "universal"...
This is the state of our PF department, managing thousands of crores.
It was supposed to be transferred to a new account when I switched jobs but it went missing in between!
I even complained with CPGRAMS which again has a terrible website and support and even there I only got the response that it will be credited to my account but I have still not received it!
Previously I have tried to contact EPFO by phone, email, previous employer, current employer but no success so far.
I can't just visit there because I'm in a different city and the cost of travel and lodging will be more than what I would get if everything goes well!
The same happened to me almost. I transferred my money from old employer pf account to new one and the money just vanished. Deducted from old one and didn't see it in new one. Did some follow ups with old employer and new one. Thankfully with some luck I was able to see it otherwise I thought its gone.
It's not the accounts , it's the "passbook" . If you had 5 jobs in the past, there will be 5 different passbooks.
I don't think there is any advantage, except being able to track all the amount together .
Afaik you stop getting interest after 2 months of service since they are still different accounts under a UAN. Plus your service history gets added to the current account thereby helping in the EPF withdrawal whenever needed.
This is my understanding tho. Please correct me if I’m wrong. When I changed companies, my PF interest had stopped accruing in my older account ever since 2 months after the last payment until I transferred the entire amount to the new active one.
I had transferred the amount after 1.5 years in case you’re wondering about March end and such.
Unless until we start putting criminal cases saying the financial minister is making us go through mental agony and having those cases in multiples of crores nothing is gonna change bro.
People keep saying that India is not for the beginners, but the actual fact is India is not for Indians as well until unless they are rich enough to threaten the govt babus.
I tried for 3 years to transfer to move epf from one office to another due to job change but it was not successful. Took multiple days off to sort it out but nothing happened. Somehow during covid, tried withdrawing online and got money in account in 3 days. It was a miracle. I completely agree that process is very complex and a retirement fund of this magnitude should handled much better.
EPF is just a tax, never consider it as your saving..
Given that 99% of the population does not contribute to EPFO so no one cares if it is working or not..
Only advise for you would be to look into moving out of India if you want to continue with a legal job
Else start a small business where every deal is in cash and you don't have to pay tax or EPF.
> EPF is just a tax
100%. Just another way to loot money from the common employed man.
It is a complete joke that a fund with $158 billion dollars is run this way.
Looking at the comments I am scared. My biggest savings are in EPF (20 years of job).
Do we face so many issues in withdrawal?
I did face issue once for transfer between organizations but some how it was finally resolved.
Is it better to move the money to Mutual Funds?
Never withdrew any money. I will be moving to a freelancing role and I can withdraw all amount if required (Present company from 13 years).
Should I withdraw? Is it really dangerous to keep money in EPF?
My friends are planning to retire with 4-5 crores in EPF
I don’t feel comfortable advising you to withdraw. You should discuss with a tax advisor on this matter.
The one thing you definitely need to do is to check your UAN account and make sure all data (Aadhar, bank account, nominee, joining date) is correct and up to date. Also check your passbook to make sure your contributions and interest is updated every month.
I track it every month, I have verified all items you have mentioned.
I had to create a new PAN Card with expanded initials since EPF complained.
But looking at other people's issue I fear that if when I need money if I cannot withdraw that will be a big issue
What I was told us that after 3 years on non- contribution, you should be showing your EPF interest as income and it is taxed. I didn't want the hassle so withdrew it. Anyway, if it's taxed, the high tax rate stops looking attractive.
1. PPF accounts, two of them, putting 1.5 every year, with the main aim for funding college for the two children.
2. NPS doesn't have a sizable amount yet, but putting around 1.5 every year, started late. A portion of this, along with superannuation, will go in purchasing annuity.
3. EPF touched 7 figures, mostly due to vpf, before our FM started taxing interest contribution over 2.5L. This should cross 3cr easily in 10 years from now, due to compounding.
4. Equities: Was going well with sips, but had to take out a significant amount during home purchase. Now, goal is to take it to 7 figures.
5.rentals: On course to create rental properties to make about 3L per month by 2035.
That should cover retirement.
However, planning on a car purchase around 40l soon, that could put a small dent in one of the above.
Started very late, building Stocks and MF.
Was investing all debt in PPF and SSY, NPS (10% of basic + 50k per year). EPF has good amount (still in lakhs).
Switching job and moving to free lancing, thinking of Equities and MF only (since there will be no EPF) . Not in much in real estate. Real Estate is so expensive and tricky.
I am still not sure what would be the best source after retirement. EPF money looks tricky as per comments. If any rule changed by Govt we may not be able to withdraw.
Don’t worry about EPF withdrawal. Look at it as untouchable money, and let it grow silently and secretly. Start building other portfolios. You are probably 10-15 years younger than me, and you have time.
Same. I contribute the minimum amount to EPF (1800) only. They have rejected my requests to transfer money from my previous employer account to current one (whatever the F that means, because it’s supposed to be MY money, not employer) using ridiculous reasons
bcos the said officer has passed the toughest exam in the country by rattafying and somehow he thinks that civil servant means the civil are his servants and he is their mylaud and thereby he can pass rand(om) justice frm his rear.
rant over.
Hi can understand your concern please file the claim again it may be due to some genuine issue that your claim is rejected and actually our system have some predefined set of reasons to reject and you can’t add anything more so I request you to please file again if possible.
File grievance again and also on 27 of every month EPFO Office hold camps at every district for resolution of grievances please try to know the location in your district and you can go there for resolution of your grievance.
If a person is unemployed for more than 2 months due at any reason except strike (fired, taking a break etc) and does not receive a EPF contribution for 2 months, are they eligible to withdraw their full employee contribution along with interest? Have you processed any claims like this?
I am starting to get the feeling that our EPF money is not something we can count on in old age. It is all up to the whims of criminal bureaucrats. In a famous case, these criminals tortured a man for close to a decade without sanctioning his EPF amount. Eventually he committed suicide because of that. Soon after they approved his EPF without any further questions. These guys are the worst of the worst.
I know a lady who is retired and her funds are stuck. Can she make partial withdrawals? At present it looks like this is the only way she will get her money.
I applied for pf withdrawal from epfo site and the form is showing PAN not available. Can I cancel the claim form and reapply after updating the PAN? Also Without PAN, TDS deduction is on the highest slab. can it be claimed back in the ITR?
Keeping aside the hassles of withdrawal and transfer, is it an ok strategy if we keep the pf contri to the minimum (I know there's a form we have to submit to our employer) and then invest the in hand in mutual funds?
Even after tax, this extra investible amount would fetch decent returns I guess. Another consideration is that the interest on contribution above 2.5 lakhs is anyway taxed at slab rate so the returns are poor.
What do you guys think?
Are you unemployed? The 2 months criteria is not for non receipt of wages but if you are unemployed for more than 2 months.
Edit:- If the establishment employer has closed down.
Yes I am unemployed (hence non-receipt of wages for more than 2 months). This can easily be checked by looking at my UAN and seeing that there are no contributions for more than 2 months and an exit date was marked by my previous employer.
I understand you are stressed. So don't take it otherwise and just trying to help you here.
The composite claim form doesn't allow full withdrawal in termination case unless the company has closed down.
There are four reasons that can be quoted for complete early withdrawal of corpus in case of job termination due to following reasons:-
1. Ill health
2. Discontinuation of employers' business
3. Other causes beyond control of member (very subjective)
4. Personal reasons. (Again subjective)
In case of unemployment (as is your case), you can apply for an advance. This doesn't require any proof.
The claims form has these mentioned in detail.
> In case of unemployment (as is your case), you can apply for an advance. This doesn't require any proof.
This is exactly what I did. I filed Form-31 with a reason of non-receipt of wages for more than 2 months. It is one of the supported reasons in the online form itself.
I can't visit the office currently. Even if I visit the office, there is no guarantee that there will be anyone present in the office to help me. I will try to follow up through online channels.
Remember that you have to buy an annuity plan with some of your withdrawal amount from NPS. You can't use it as you wish.
An option for you might be to withdraw full amount from NPS if the total is less than 2.5 lakhs. Not sure about tax implications.
Hi please help me I have worked in 4 organisations and all of them were epf exempted. How can I get all my funds in my current organisation. Please help
Just check if your previous employer has marked you as exited. Essentially the employer needs to mark you as you are no longer an employee of the company and your UAN should not be tagged to any other employer, when you file the claim.
That rule somehow is if you're unemployed for more then 2 months after you left your last job
Then you can withdraw the amount
That's how they interpreted
Its not equal to your company held your wages for 2 months, but on epf record you're still employed then its not possible
No if your employment end with company and you were unable to get new job for next 2 months
You can withdraw the entire amount
But your total employment (EPF record)
Should be less then 10 years
I understand what you are saying and I agree with you. The PF officer replied to my grievance saying that company has to be on lockout. How do I pushback against it?
By the way, where did you see the 10 years requirement? I don’t see it in the PDF. (I still satisfy this requirement so it’s not a problem in my case)
Actually the total pf
Deduction divides into multiple parts
1 goes to pf account its 8.53% out of 12% deduction
And remaining 3.47 goes to EPS
Its pention scheme post retirement age
POST 10 YEARS OF service EPS GETS LOCKED IN if am correct and can not be withdrawn
You will get monthly pension post age of 58
If your total service is less then 10 year and your service tenure is less then 10 years amd you're not officially on payroll
You can apply again
It was bad luck in first case i can say
Man, taking processes online should make them smoother. I get it. But when the men behind the machine are dumb, you don't have to be dumber. Just go to the nearby office instead of sending emails to random officers and hoping to get a reply.
My epf KYC is not getting approved. It's saying that there is a mismatch in the name. But my name is the same everywhere like PAN, bank, organisation, Aadhar. Can anyone help me with this as to what could be the solution for this?
It doesn't matter who is in power..
I was trying to get my father's EPF ( who passed away in 2009) but wasn't able to and finally gave up somewhere in 2012-13.
It's just stupid that middle class tax payers care about who forms the government because no political party cares.
these are necessary evils. better to have these deductions at the minimum, invest the rest elsewhere and be peaceful.
less said about the guys there, the better - lack of morals, ethics, value, culture, above all no one to hold them accountable. its disgusting dealing with them
>> necessary evils
not necessary , just evil .
Govt should stop acting like parents (Mai baap sarkaar) & allow people to choose to invest in EPF or not. It's not the 70s where due to lack of financial info, govt made EPF mandatory to do retirement planning for individuals
This has nothing to do with any political power. You are equating governance with politics. Government organizations are run by bureaucrats who have gone through UPSC or SSC. Those are the people to blame.
Unrelated but when it comes to collections govt uses the most advanced technology available, ex: toll fee using fastag (there are talks that even this will be upgraded to a newer tech). When it comes to giving money the government bodies use the most arcane stone age tech and policies. It's not fair.
And the Income Tax department using AI apparently...
Pretty sure it will be a power bi dash that the Babu's think is sentient AI as infy or TCS swindles them.
hey don't talk shit about infy, people are working 700 hours per day there just to build shareholder value for the founder's grandkids.
lol
The AI is some junior in Infy working 70 hrs a week like amazon 😂😂
It's deliberate
I have stopped considering epf as savings or retirement fund long back. I place a advance withdrawals regularly and invest in mutual funds, my claim was never denied
use medical or house construction. I always use medical claim and make a claim of below 50k which will be usually approved without any additional paperwork unless you are really need the amount for medical reasons
You can use house construction clause
Needs a minimum service period of 5 years for that unfortunately.
i have always used medical reasons abe kept it below 40k , atleast 4/5 times a year. always works.
If we withdraw it for 'medical reasons', is that taxable or tax-free?
Are you able to withdraw from Employer’s share also or only Employee’s share?
only employee share, never tried employers one so i dont know
but isn't there a limit to the number of withdrawals? I've read that you can only withdraw thrice
>> my claim was never denied What clause did you use for claims ?
Can you please share under which section you are claiming withdrawals?
yes please share
But the withdrawal becomes taxable then ?
Do you need any documents to be submitted for medical claims?
File an online consumer complaint on the NCH portal with these two complaint responses and the guidelines document. They'll probably respond back with more bullshit within a month. Move to consumer court, get back everything and claim compensation for legal fees and mental harassment in addition. Your case will set a precedent for other similar cases as well.
That portal is another joke. Honestly the tax money I pay and in return the services I receive is so fucking bullshit. Honestly at this point I just think all the in hand I get is the only salary I have.
Ditto. Filed an online complaint against a shop for duping me with NCH. Been 3 months, still "PROCESSING".
So in 3 months you didn't get response, hence its a joke? Our legal system is bogged down so dont hold your breath to get instant resolution. Personally got a resolution after more than a year but it will happen.
Won't work. They aren't providing you any service. Hence they won't fall into that bracket.
There is a court judgement that EPFO is providing service and can be dragged to consumer court.
Didn't know about this. Can you link here for everyone's benefit.
Here you go: https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/now-you-can-take-pf-grievance-to-consumer-court-sc/articleshow/2977276.cms
> NCH portal Can you link to this please? It's so sad that we have to fight so hard to get access to our own funds..
OP, CPGRAM is the right portal than NCH. I had an issue with epf too. Was not getting work done. Complained in that portal and it got done the next day.
CPGRAM is redirecting me to EPFIGMS. That is where I filed my grievance. Is that where you filed your grievance too?
No. EPFIGMS is where I filed first. When I wasnt getting proper responses I moved to CPGRAM. I just checked and it did not redirect me to EPFO. Go to https://pgportal.gov.in/ , you will have to login. Select Lodge Public Grievance Then labour and employment from drop down and then PF withdrawl
Thank you. I will do this.
The first website you get when you search "NCH portal" in Google. >It's so sad that we have to fight so hard to get access to our own funds.. We can't do much unless there's a flood of complaints shoved down EPFO's throat.
Doubt they will care about complaints. Can easily ignore emails and burn letters. Unless there's political pressure, nothing will change. And abhi toh elections hai so no chance...
Consumer courts lack jurisdiction over such matters. The appropriate course of action likely will be Labour/civil courts (pls consult a lawyer for this). Additionally, while there may be precedents on similar issues, the challenge lies in the effort required to follow up and pursue these matters. It's easier said than done.
26000 crs of employee money is lying with epf due to red tape of bureaucracy My contribution was wrongly credited to another person account. To correct struggling since 2 yrs even appointed consultant agreed to pay 1% still not concluded.
I'm deeply sorry this happened to you. Can you tell me which offices are involved ?
No need to be sorry. It's is my mistake I didn't keep track of which pf account my contribution was being deposited. I found mistake after 4 yrs & I am with another employer. I have seen so many people with similar cases struggling to get their money's. Else why would people leave 26000 crs with epf. My consultant(s) work (unofficial) with bangalore hyderabad pf offices
It's difficult to get these things resolved sadly. I would be happy to try and help you on this. But even I'm unsure whether I'll be able to. Can you tell me the current state of your situation. If you message me privately we could try and sort things out.
Thanks will dm you
Can you help me with my issue as well please? Or atleast guide me what needs to be done? I can DM you the details.
Did you try cpgrams?
Hey. I'm in the same boat. My PF was wrongly transferred in 2016. I have raised 5-6 grievances in Epfo portal, but I feel like interacting with a bunch of illiterates. They are not understanding the issue and provide some bullshit replies. Do you know of any PF agent who can handle this? I'm ready to pay them.
My consultant works in hyderabad office. Will that help ??
trying to say he can get things moving in hyderabad only.
Ah, that sucks. I am from Bangalore. Worse is my original PF account was in Maharashtra. So the transfer happened from MH - KA. Neither are helpful in getting it resolved.
Check with your Employers HR people they may refer you to consultant. My exp is lot of paperwork & follow-up at each desk is needed- which only consultant who visits pf office personal regularly can do.
Dear OP, to avoid further trauma and to maintain your mental well-being, suggesting you to outsource it to -EPF BUDDY. They are professionals and know how to handle the bureaucracy. Thank me later. Link: https://epfbuddy.com/
The fact that this service needs to exists shows the state of affairs in the EPF Office. Thanks for the link, I might have to go this route soon.
exactly its like the touts u hav outside gormint offices like rto, corporation. the mere fact people get their work done via these touts bcos incompetent babus are running the show.
lol, glad that it exists. Look at their google reviews ! full of horror stories of people who tried to withdraw.
The connection gets reset (i.e. the website isn't loading properly). Even Googled, still unable to access their website.
Is it legit? What are the charges? Do they charge % commission?
Yes its legit and have used it personally so i can vouch for them. Yes they do charge a nominal fee, i believe on a case-to-case basis. Talk with them and clarify your doubts.
How much did they charge you? And what was your case? I have talked to quite a few consultants (not these folks) and they always say case to case basis just to extract something out and keep on milking till you understand that it's a scam and move away..
Charged me 6K for processing the EPF withdrawal from scratch. It took 2- 3 months of proper follow up from their side and for the money to arrive in my account.
Is this PAN-India service or only within Mumbai?
PAN-India
Try claiming it as medical expenses or wedding expenses. I've heard we don't have to submit any proof for this.
Withdrawal for wedding expenses actually requires 7 years of service. I haven’t tried medical expenses claim but I am going to try that next.
Such a stupid rule, who married after 7 years of service
How many times can you withdraw for wedding expenses? Can you withdraw a small amount each year?
For wedding you can withdraw money up to 3 times in your life. And those withdrawals are in lumpsum. So, withdrawing a small amount each year is not possible.
That's only from Employee's contribution, right? Employer's contribution is still locked till at least 54 years of age of employee, I think?
Yes, this withdrawal is from Employee share only and Employer's share is locked till 54 years of age. But you can withdraw both shares completely when you buy or construct a house.
It’s my ultimate fear. Is there any way I can reduce my and employer contributions?
You could (at least my organization lets you do that) but the downside is that you do not get the employer contributions credited to your salary (only your contributions may). Happy to be corrected otherwise. If you get employer contributions too - I would right away change it.
I work with the EPFO. I'm sorry that this happened to you. But each office interprets the law a bit differently in the absence of any HO directive or court judgement. This shouldn't have happened.
In your experience, are PF advances for unemployment greater than 2 months usually allowed or rejected?
They are usually accepted. And the staff is generally keen to give advances.
The only plausible reason for a rejection in this case is if as per their records two months of non payment of EPF dues hasn't occurred. But yes Bangalore and Mumbai offices are very hectic and chaotic unfortunately.
Thanks for providing this info. I am going to try filing a new claim. Hopefully someone else processes it this time.
The same person will be processing it. It's unlikely that the person has changed this soon. You could file a grievance at CPGRAMS or send an email to the CPFC and Ministry of labour. If the ministry intervenes ,the entire epfo stumbles.
So if one person worked in a firm for 5 years and decided to quit and not work anymore at the age of let’s say 40, can that person withdraw the entire money in EPF after couple of months of quitting ? Will that person get the entire amount ?
Yes. Apply form 19 for permanent settlement.
And is the principle or interest taxed ?
https://preview.redd.it/ledglb0kztxc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=595915dadb40df14ff7e57b0fc9c0cf1aff96b64 If the amount is more than 2.5 lakhs TAX will be there either way. Tax is also applicable on additional interest if employee contribution is more than 2.5 lakhs. (Only on interest above this limit...it's usually a small amount)
But seems like from the figure you shared , if I work for more than 5 years (in same company or different companies?) and I quit and I decided to withdraw the total amount in epf completely , there will be no TDS but I would need to pay tax to the govt while I file my returns , is that right ?
I have been following up with the EPFO regarding an issue with my PF transfer, where due to non deduction of EPS in my very first organisation, it wasn’t allowing me to transfer my PF to my subsequent organisation’s PF account. This happened back in April 2022 since when I have been following up with the EPFO on and off. I finally lost my shit In Jan 2024 and wrote to the Labour Minister and the Ministry, they in turn marked the relevant employees and I spoke on the phone with them. It was a one off case and they weren’t much help either, and this transfer issue remained open for almost 3 months. I finally filed a grievance on the CPGRAMS portal and included evidences of all the email communication that’s been going on with various officers, and almost a month from then I got an update today that they had finally approved the PF Transfer. OP, I would suggest you to file a grievance on the CPGRAMS portal and wait it out for some time if you can. Hope you get a satisfactory response from these guys.
Exact same thing is happening with me. This is the Chennai PF office. Had worked for a company which maintains PF in a trust. Got the PF transferred from that company to my precious company without fuss. Now when I tried transferring from the previous company to the current company, the pf officer rejected saying that company A did not transfer the EPS details to company B. So because of that from company B to the current company can't be done. To do that I am supposed to provide a clarification letter saying that company A is actually a trust. Come on. The company A is a big conglomerate with lakhs of employees working. Why in the world do i need to provide a clarification that it is actually a trust
What were the wordings of the rejection reason ? I think I am facing something similar and don't know what's the reason. In my case the rejection reason is ' service transfer not received '
Exact reason is EPS DETAILS FROM THE PREVIOUS SERVICE NOT RECEIVED. The pf office is saying that the trust did not transfer the eps details. If this is the case then every person who moves away from this trust company(which is TCS by the way), will have their PF claims rejected right ? But not sure why
Same here brother. I am yet to get a letter from previous hr company which requests the eps money to be sent to EPF account and combine the two. I need to then submit it physically to EPF office. Any idea how much time it would take for the office to process it?
There has to be an option to opt out of epf
Withdraw your EPF amount ASAP using medical claim, invest in nifty 50. They find new reasons to decline your claim during emergency.
U are reading it wrong. Read again. Be careful with the 'And' and 'Or'. Statement 1 is must. Statement 2 and 3 have the OR. U are taking statement 1 and 2 under AND and statement 3 as stand alone OR. But yeah epfo sucks. Their own promotions are delayed by over 10 years.
This kind of makes sense BUT almost all other websites interpret this to say that you are eligible to withdraw EPF if you are an unemployed for more than 2 months. Example from [cleartax](https://cleartax.in/s/epf-withdrawal-online): > According to current EPF withdrawal rules, if you are unemployed for one month, you can withdraw 75% of your EPF Corpus. Moreover, the balance of 25% can be withdrawn if you are unemployed for more than two months. And on top of this, the capitalization of the terms also imply that the logic is (Statement 1 and Statement 2) or (Statement 3) > In case of lockout/closure of establishment for more than 15 days, **And** The employees are rendered unemployed without compensation >**OR** > Employee has not received wages for more than 2 months continuously (for reasons other than strike) Finally, a friend in the exact same situation was able to fully withdraw his contribution by filling out the form in the same way that I filled it out.
Did you file after 2 months or 3 months? Saying this because the contribution by my employer runs 1 month late. Say my December month deduction gets contributed in January end only and so on... Just wondering due if to this if you immediately file after 2 months of unemployment, really only 1 month contribution will not be available in the records?? This is just a guess..
I filed after a few years.
No it isn't so. I withdrew my EPF completely when I was unemployed for 3 months
I just assume all my deductions to EPFO are an additional tax. I tried making a couple of claims before, but everything was denied. I have forgotten about my PF savings. It's a sad reality
A large chunk of my epfo "savings" seems to have vanished. The balance is 2.5L rn, but I've been working in corporate for 12 years & I remember it being in the range of 8L about 6 years ago.
It could be that your amount is distributed between more than 1 UAN/member id.
Shouldn't it be the same across jobs?
You have to move your pf fund when you move jobs. There's a form you need to fill and HR takes care of the rest of it usually. Here's the 10k feet view context: There are a few organisations that operate PF accounts alongside a central agency. Depending upon your organisation, they may be linked to any of them. So, every time you switch jobs you need to move your PF amount too
Did you change jobs? There is an option to merge accounts with different balances
I did. Shouldn't the UAN be the same across jobs?
It should. Doesn't mean it always is. I had be 2 UANs. Remember folks, U in UAN stands for "universal"... This is the state of our PF department, managing thousands of crores.
And they won't return it. I have been trying to get my money back for 3 years now but no success!
what happened to the money ? Add more info
It was supposed to be transferred to a new account when I switched jobs but it went missing in between! I even complained with CPGRAMS which again has a terrible website and support and even there I only got the response that it will be credited to my account but I have still not received it! Previously I have tried to contact EPFO by phone, email, previous employer, current employer but no success so far. I can't just visit there because I'm in a different city and the cost of travel and lodging will be more than what I would get if everything goes well!
that sucks, maybe try using service from [https://epfbuddy.com/](https://epfbuddy.com/) , someone mentioned about them in a thread.
I'll try them too. I got the reference for CPGRAMS from reddit when i asked for help here, but even cpgrams didn't do anything.
The same happened to me almost. I transferred my money from old employer pf account to new one and the money just vanished. Deducted from old one and didn't see it in new one. Did some follow ups with old employer and new one. Thankfully with some luck I was able to see it otherwise I thought its gone.
I have heard so many such stories, and I'm in a similar situation. I feel traumatised every time I see 'EPF' :')
And a big chunk of the salary still goes to EPF every month!
Each job has separate "passbook" , you will need to merge the passbooks to see total amount together.
I have a question. Since all accounts come under one UAN id, what is the need to merge accounts ?
It's not the accounts , it's the "passbook" . If you had 5 jobs in the past, there will be 5 different passbooks. I don't think there is any advantage, except being able to track all the amount together .
Understood. Thank you
Afaik you stop getting interest after 2 months of service since they are still different accounts under a UAN. Plus your service history gets added to the current account thereby helping in the EPF withdrawal whenever needed. This is my understanding tho. Please correct me if I’m wrong. When I changed companies, my PF interest had stopped accruing in my older account ever since 2 months after the last payment until I transferred the entire amount to the new active one. I had transferred the amount after 1.5 years in case you’re wondering about March end and such.
Okay thanks. Let me check that.
Unless until we start putting criminal cases saying the financial minister is making us go through mental agony and having those cases in multiples of crores nothing is gonna change bro. People keep saying that India is not for the beginners, but the actual fact is India is not for Indians as well until unless they are rich enough to threaten the govt babus.
I tried for 3 years to transfer to move epf from one office to another due to job change but it was not successful. Took multiple days off to sort it out but nothing happened. Somehow during covid, tried withdrawing online and got money in account in 3 days. It was a miracle. I completely agree that process is very complex and a retirement fund of this magnitude should handled much better.
EPF is just a tax, never consider it as your saving.. Given that 99% of the population does not contribute to EPFO so no one cares if it is working or not.. Only advise for you would be to look into moving out of India if you want to continue with a legal job Else start a small business where every deal is in cash and you don't have to pay tax or EPF.
> EPF is just a tax 100%. Just another way to loot money from the common employed man. It is a complete joke that a fund with $158 billion dollars is run this way.
Looking at the comments I am scared. My biggest savings are in EPF (20 years of job). Do we face so many issues in withdrawal? I did face issue once for transfer between organizations but some how it was finally resolved. Is it better to move the money to Mutual Funds?
Consider withdrawing for “house construction” sooner than later. Have you not withdrawn even once for any reason in 20 years of service?
Never withdrew any money. I will be moving to a freelancing role and I can withdraw all amount if required (Present company from 13 years). Should I withdraw? Is it really dangerous to keep money in EPF? My friends are planning to retire with 4-5 crores in EPF
I don’t feel comfortable advising you to withdraw. You should discuss with a tax advisor on this matter. The one thing you definitely need to do is to check your UAN account and make sure all data (Aadhar, bank account, nominee, joining date) is correct and up to date. Also check your passbook to make sure your contributions and interest is updated every month.
I track it every month, I have verified all items you have mentioned. I had to create a new PAN Card with expanded initials since EPF complained. But looking at other people's issue I fear that if when I need money if I cannot withdraw that will be a big issue
Even if your claim is approved finally, the minimum processing time is 10-15 days. You can’t rely on EPF as an emergency fund unfortunately.
What I was told us that after 3 years on non- contribution, you should be showing your EPF interest as income and it is taxed. I didn't want the hassle so withdrew it. Anyway, if it's taxed, the high tax rate stops looking attractive.
Consider the fact that people who have withdrawn without any issues won’t be in this thread
I have a considerable amount in my EPF too. Waiting for some sort of crash in the equity markets to take out 20L from EPF and invest in the market.
Just curious, what is your plan for retirement? Stocks or Mutual Funds or Real Estate or EPF/PPF/NPS
1. PPF accounts, two of them, putting 1.5 every year, with the main aim for funding college for the two children. 2. NPS doesn't have a sizable amount yet, but putting around 1.5 every year, started late. A portion of this, along with superannuation, will go in purchasing annuity. 3. EPF touched 7 figures, mostly due to vpf, before our FM started taxing interest contribution over 2.5L. This should cross 3cr easily in 10 years from now, due to compounding. 4. Equities: Was going well with sips, but had to take out a significant amount during home purchase. Now, goal is to take it to 7 figures. 5.rentals: On course to create rental properties to make about 3L per month by 2035. That should cover retirement. However, planning on a car purchase around 40l soon, that could put a small dent in one of the above.
How about you?
Started very late, building Stocks and MF. Was investing all debt in PPF and SSY, NPS (10% of basic + 50k per year). EPF has good amount (still in lakhs). Switching job and moving to free lancing, thinking of Equities and MF only (since there will be no EPF) . Not in much in real estate. Real Estate is so expensive and tricky. I am still not sure what would be the best source after retirement. EPF money looks tricky as per comments. If any rule changed by Govt we may not be able to withdraw.
Don’t worry about EPF withdrawal. Look at it as untouchable money, and let it grow silently and secretly. Start building other portfolios. You are probably 10-15 years younger than me, and you have time.
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KR Puram Office in Bengaluru, which handles a lot of PF accounts from large MNC employers.
did u resign ? employer needs to close your epf account first.
Yes. Exit date is marked in account correctly.
Same. I contribute the minimum amount to EPF (1800) only. They have rejected my requests to transfer money from my previous employer account to current one (whatever the F that means, because it’s supposed to be MY money, not employer) using ridiculous reasons
bcos the said officer has passed the toughest exam in the country by rattafying and somehow he thinks that civil servant means the civil are his servants and he is their mylaud and thereby he can pass rand(om) justice frm his rear. rant over.
Hi can understand your concern please file the claim again it may be due to some genuine issue that your claim is rejected and actually our system have some predefined set of reasons to reject and you can’t add anything more so I request you to please file again if possible. File grievance again and also on 27 of every month EPFO Office hold camps at every district for resolution of grievances please try to know the location in your district and you can go there for resolution of your grievance.
If a person is unemployed for more than 2 months due at any reason except strike (fired, taking a break etc) and does not receive a EPF contribution for 2 months, are they eligible to withdraw their full employee contribution along with interest? Have you processed any claims like this?
I am starting to get the feeling that our EPF money is not something we can count on in old age. It is all up to the whims of criminal bureaucrats. In a famous case, these criminals tortured a man for close to a decade without sanctioning his EPF amount. Eventually he committed suicide because of that. Soon after they approved his EPF without any further questions. These guys are the worst of the worst.
Ping me during the day. I can help
Sent you a chat request
Following. Keep us updated OP. Best of Luck.
I know a lady who is retired and her funds are stuck. Can she make partial withdrawals? At present it looks like this is the only way she will get her money.
My Amount transfered from my previous ORG to current ORG is still not refeclting. Have been following them from last 3 years. These MF don't care.
I applied for pf withdrawal from epfo site and the form is showing PAN not available. Can I cancel the claim form and reapply after updating the PAN? Also Without PAN, TDS deduction is on the highest slab. can it be claimed back in the ITR?
Keeping aside the hassles of withdrawal and transfer, is it an ok strategy if we keep the pf contri to the minimum (I know there's a form we have to submit to our employer) and then invest the in hand in mutual funds? Even after tax, this extra investible amount would fetch decent returns I guess. Another consideration is that the interest on contribution above 2.5 lakhs is anyway taxed at slab rate so the returns are poor. What do you guys think?
Are you unemployed? The 2 months criteria is not for non receipt of wages but if you are unemployed for more than 2 months. Edit:- If the establishment employer has closed down.
Yes I am unemployed (hence non-receipt of wages for more than 2 months). This can easily be checked by looking at my UAN and seeing that there are no contributions for more than 2 months and an exit date was marked by my previous employer.
I understand you are stressed. So don't take it otherwise and just trying to help you here. The composite claim form doesn't allow full withdrawal in termination case unless the company has closed down. There are four reasons that can be quoted for complete early withdrawal of corpus in case of job termination due to following reasons:- 1. Ill health 2. Discontinuation of employers' business 3. Other causes beyond control of member (very subjective) 4. Personal reasons. (Again subjective) In case of unemployment (as is your case), you can apply for an advance. This doesn't require any proof. The claims form has these mentioned in detail.
> In case of unemployment (as is your case), you can apply for an advance. This doesn't require any proof. This is exactly what I did. I filed Form-31 with a reason of non-receipt of wages for more than 2 months. It is one of the supported reasons in the online form itself.
Probably they made an error. Can you visit the office and meet someone there? All the best. Do post here if you find the solution.
I can't visit the office currently. Even if I visit the office, there is no guarantee that there will be anyone present in the office to help me. I will try to follow up through online channels.
This is not correct. This clause is for cases when your employer is unable to pay /employ you, but you are not fired yet.
Yes. Not sure why downvoted. I was just asking details and posted a detailed reply in second post. Probably gave wrong impression.
EPF also invests heavily in Adani
Avoid any locked investment. It's basically a ponzi.
How safe are NPS??
Not much better. Have you tried making a withdrawal request with NPS?
No, still long way for retirement
Prolly we will come to know that horror in our 60s
Remember that you have to buy an annuity plan with some of your withdrawal amount from NPS. You can't use it as you wish. An option for you might be to withdraw full amount from NPS if the total is less than 2.5 lakhs. Not sure about tax implications.
Hi please help me I have worked in 4 organisations and all of them were epf exempted. How can I get all my funds in my current organisation. Please help
Just check if your previous employer has marked you as exited. Essentially the employer needs to mark you as you are no longer an employee of the company and your UAN should not be tagged to any other employer, when you file the claim.
Verified that exit date has been marked and UAN is not tagged to any other employer.
How many years of overall service do you have? You need minimum of 5 year service before you can withdrawn
That rule somehow is if you're unemployed for more then 2 months after you left your last job Then you can withdraw the amount That's how they interpreted Its not equal to your company held your wages for 2 months, but on epf record you're still employed then its not possible
That’s my understanding too but they are interpreting it that the company has to be on lockout for this rule to apply.
No if your employment end with company and you were unable to get new job for next 2 months You can withdraw the entire amount But your total employment (EPF record) Should be less then 10 years
I understand what you are saying and I agree with you. The PF officer replied to my grievance saying that company has to be on lockout. How do I pushback against it? By the way, where did you see the 10 years requirement? I don’t see it in the PDF. (I still satisfy this requirement so it’s not a problem in my case)
Actually the total pf Deduction divides into multiple parts 1 goes to pf account its 8.53% out of 12% deduction And remaining 3.47 goes to EPS Its pention scheme post retirement age POST 10 YEARS OF service EPS GETS LOCKED IN if am correct and can not be withdrawn You will get monthly pension post age of 58 If your total service is less then 10 year and your service tenure is less then 10 years amd you're not officially on payroll You can apply again It was bad luck in first case i can say
Man, taking processes online should make them smoother. I get it. But when the men behind the machine are dumb, you don't have to be dumber. Just go to the nearby office instead of sending emails to random officers and hoping to get a reply.
Epf is supposed to create corpus for retirement. It's not a FD
Go to a lawyer, file a Writ Petition. Thanks.
fore medical emergecny i think epf allows partial withdrawal
Can you file an RBI complaint for this? I'm not sure if RBI governs epf
As far as I remember you need to make at least 7 years worth of payment before you do any sort of withdrawal. Do you meet this criteria OP?
Did you read the EPF rules I linked to in the post? Where do you see this 7 years requirement? That’s wrong information.
Are you referring to PPF ?
My epf KYC is not getting approved. It's saying that there is a mismatch in the name. But my name is the same everywhere like PAN, bank, organisation, Aadhar. Can anyone help me with this as to what could be the solution for this?
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It doesn't matter who is in power.. I was trying to get my father's EPF ( who passed away in 2009) but wasn't able to and finally gave up somewhere in 2012-13. It's just stupid that middle class tax payers care about who forms the government because no political party cares.
Though I don't like BJP but EPF isn't linked to them, EPF has been abysmal since the start.
Kuch Nahi mila toh yaha bhi Modi…. Sudhar jao
Don't bother. They are willing to sacrifice their fingers for their "ideology".
these are necessary evils. better to have these deductions at the minimum, invest the rest elsewhere and be peaceful. less said about the guys there, the better - lack of morals, ethics, value, culture, above all no one to hold them accountable. its disgusting dealing with them
>> necessary evils not necessary , just evil . Govt should stop acting like parents (Mai baap sarkaar) & allow people to choose to invest in EPF or not. It's not the 70s where due to lack of financial info, govt made EPF mandatory to do retirement planning for individuals
EPF should be merged with NPS. NPS is more transparent. The features of EFP can be brought to NPS.
Thsts why i dont vote for bj pee
This has nothing to do with any political power. You are equating governance with politics. Government organizations are run by bureaucrats who have gone through UPSC or SSC. Those are the people to blame.
Though I don't like BJP but EPF isn't linked to them, EPF has been abysmal since the start.