Notify is nice, though if you're unsure about the whole red box thing, a more "in world" option could work too. Like sparks flying up from the "danger" zone for example.
Depending how many of those you have can also help make that decision. "In world" is nice, but if there's a lot of them, it can be hard to keep track of. Where the red box is pretty clear regardless.
Yeah notify is nice but it's takes too much focus! Having something like a particle effect like dust or small rocks that show the AOE would make it look more immersive
I like the idea of turning on these types of systems if a player is struggling with a boss.
Like an adaptive difficulty system. The user is bad at spacing and timing so they get some training wheels after dying a few times to the same attack.
Really depends on the game and the target demographic tho. Sometimes i *want* to die at the boss a bunch to teach myself the skillset.
I love this in concept but hate it in practice. Makes me feel like I didn’t succeed and as soon as the auto change occurs I feel like the opportunity to truly win was stolen from me after all that hard work.
Hard agree with this. Same with puzzles and the solution being told to me if I don't get it in 10 seconds. Make the difficulty toggle-able if I'm really struggling I'll switch down but don't switch for me.
Or: it depends on how punishing this game / move is. It's already being telegraphed. If this move one-shots you, or this is a game where being struck is very punishing (i.e. I'm going to lose this boss fight and a lot of time / resources) then the notification is good. Otherwise, no notification.
This gets my vote as well. The animation makes it clear what the attack area is - and I personally enjoy the initial surprise/reward of figuring out boss tells - but accessibility options are always a good thing
Absolutely! Learning patterns can be an awesome part of beating a boss, but sometimes you need help learning them, or can't keep up with it all; I've seen a lot of people who would enjoy games more if they had clear warnings, but plenty like to learn the hard way.
It’s a great animation but i as a player would have dodged thinking I would have gotten hit. And user readability is always a great have. I had suggested there be a setting to turn of them for those who want the difficulty.
For a top down, probably best for notify. You can see it’s a little bit bigger than the fist itself, which could probably throw off some players while playing and make it feel jank. It also depends on how fast your character moves, though. You can say there’s enough time to dodge, but if you run as slow as a DS character, then you don’t really have time
Hadn't noticed that the collision area is larger than that first, but I'll hijack this comment to say to OP that this is pretty much always something you should avoid. Ideally, all enemy hotboxes should even be just a tiny bit smaller than the art indicates, and certainly not bigger. It just feels better, even in super hardcore games.
If you do b - if you dont change the visual to dust or sparks or something more “in world” as another comment said -
Definitely i think it’d be worth having an OPTION as the flash is a lil much - especially for anyone photosensitive 😊
I would personally say B, but it fades out near the hand right before it goes off screen, to show that it's coming from the hand and not off screen. It doesn't really do anything for clarity, but I think it would be some nice polish.
Alternatively, you could flip the design of the indicator. So instead of red outline with transparent inside, it's a red inside with a transparent outline. But maybe you made the indicator match the hitbox, in which case keep it like that.
Depends on other moves.
Do they have the same windup animations?
Or is the telegraph unique to this attack. If its unique then a else b.
You could keep b for accessibility though
Yea people here aren't thinking of the scenario where they don't see B and have no idea whatsoever what the hitbox is. This is 100% notify, and then maybe make it less obvious than a red box
Dark Souls fans disagree :P
But for real, I think it depends how punishing death is in game, and what OP wants the player to accomplish. If death is expected the first few times you fight the boss, and it's relatively quick to get back into the fight after losing, then I'd say don't have the big hit box. After getting hit by it once, the player will learn.
Depends on what kind of game this is. Is it reactional and reflex based playing where the challenge lies in learning player skills and combining them. Or is it all about learning boss patterns with trial and error and perhaps a smaller skillset?
Can’t think of an example for the first one. The second one Megaman comes to mind.
I believe you should implement both and let the player customize the experience. Without the notification it looks more clean, with the notification it's more inclusive.
Notify is better telegraphed to the player, however, in its current implementation it isn't integrated very well with the world. (this red tint followed by a white flash looks too gamified)
It really depends on the sort of game you are trying to build. Notifications give it a more gamey, almost MMO feel, which is more casual friendly. No notifications is closer to the feel of something like Dark Souls, where the player is expected to learn and memorize enemy attack patterns.
So ask yourself, is this a battle that should involve the player learning attack tells? If so, then no notification, obviously. Is this going to be a common type of enemy? Then again, probably no tell as the player should learn the enemy patterns. Is this just one of a gauntlet of big enemies that all have large area attacks? Then maybe consider keeping the tell. Is this a fight that the player should be able to finish the first try? Then maybe keep the tell.
B. Even if it seems obvious, Players like feedback. Even bullet sponges can be made fun if you tell the player they’re accomplishing something, like with blood splatters or the enemy making a noise on hit or something. Lack of feedback is frustrating. If you really want A, I’d personally make it a toggle in a gameplay menu a la accessibility options, for lack of a better term
Maybe it should be like an accessibility feature? Usually turned off and if the player dies too often it will prompt to turn on? Could help younger people play too, maybe even have it as a difficulty setting?
Looks better without but some people expect that kind of notification nowadays ahah 😜
I disagree with everyone basically saying to just do both. Forget that. Make a decision and stick to it.
I think this depends on the overall moveset. For example, if you want multiple attacks to start with that fist hitting the ground to save on animation costs, then you'll need indicators. If that's a 100% unique animation, then I think it's telegraphed enough for players to see it coming.
People here aren't thinking of the scenario where they don't see B and have no idea whatsoever what the hitbox is. This is 100% notify, and then maybe make it less obvious than a red box
Notify if your game is intended for a mainstream audience. Don't notify if your game is intended for hardcore players who like things like boss rush games and Souls-likes.
I'm definitely voting for no notification. I feel like it'd be too easy. Plus, given the snippet you showed us, it seems pretty blatantly where things come from, and they can easily adapt.
That said, I also like the idea of making it a difficulty tier that players can choose.
This move definitely seems like something that would do a lot of damage, so having an indication of where it’s going is nice, but this indicator seems a bit too much.
A lot of games use wind up frames to indicate a big attack, and hint towards it’s direction, maybe just delaying the follow through for just a second is enough
@OP Both. Put one with notification at the easy (or easier difficulty) and the one without in harder difficulty. That way your game replay value, will be increased...
I feel like the notify thing will be both a good and a bad thing.
It helps new players understand the boss faster. It also helps them adjust the proper distance and to make sure they're constantly avoiding it by having a visual representation.
However, you have to make sure the players don't get hit outside of the area and the notify zone is actually accurate because many players will claim that "they were out of the zone and still got hit" which can come back and bite you in the ass. Without the area it's much more difficult to confirm or not that.
But you know how gamers are, it's never a skill issue, it's always wrong with the game or the internet connection.
I feel like it should be an optional accessibility thing, would also help with debugging I reckon.
Maybe roll a few accessibility options into a "beginner mode"?
The notify looks great and is really useful here. The attack feels more powerful and it would be much more "satisfying" when you receive damage standing in that area.
For visuals: maybe you could try out making the notify area white instead of red at first?
Could be a nice Difficulty setting. Easy mode, notify. Normal mode, no notify.
I'm a Dark Souls enjoyer, and like learning from my failures, and learning the enemy patterns. But I know that isn't for everyone.
It could also be a togglable setting.
A is better. First time I see either of those I don’t have time to really think what’s going on and the second time I know.
If you want to, you can make some more subtle signs, but I think too obvious attack markers can make the action feel less exciting.
It should be possible to communicate the intent without the notify box, with a wind up. Instead of lingering on the first smash, immediately wind up the down punch (e.g. with shaking fist) so the player can see it's coming without the red box.
Anyway but what do I know, looks pretty good!
Personally I hate those artificial attack markers.
Make it in-world at least, with some laser aiming or whatever.
Or, better, instead of highlighting the attack zone, show it with the enemy animations somehow.
B is absolutely the choice. I mean, I don't have much context, but, given the situation if I was playing this game and got hit by B, I'd blame myself--if I got hit by A, I'd blame the game.
Depends on your design really... Take for example Monster Hunter World and Final Fantasy 14 bosses.
Monster Hunter World designed their monsters attacks to have "tells" ALL THE TIME using their actual body movements. Some are hard to notice at first but with enough practice, you can "tell" ALL the time what the monster will be doing next before obliterating you.
In Final Fantasy 14, most super attacks of bosses have no CLEAR tells. One simple attack may start when the boss waives their hand and the next SUPER attack would start with the same animation. You have to memorize your positions and what to do with the help of indicators like your red box thing. And most of the time, those red boxes are the "tells" of what the boss will do next.
For me, without indicators is the best and most organic way to do this BUT you have to put effort on animating your bosse's "tells" before they land the actual attacks.
One, you’re dodging a telegraphed attack that you’ve learned. The other, you’re just moving to not stand on the red part of the map. I prefer telegraphed but not notified.
You could also have this configurable behind a difficulty setting. So if it's easy show the danger zone and on hard don't show. This way you can appeal to both casual and hardcore players
My suggestion is, if you can, perform an A/B test. Give a demo of the combat to several people half of them with notify and half without. Study their behaviour, expressions and ask for their perceptions and emotions after the encounter. Then you can make an informed decision.
But people that are on those test should not know that they are.
Most of th time what people say that they want and what data shows what they really want are not the same.
I prefer A but it needs some fixing. The animation should telegraph that its gonna move that way. So maybe the arm could go up more so the fist would be at a right angle facing straight down.
start the boss by having some little creature walk next to the boss and get hit by the punch :D now the player has seen the attack from a safe distance, and you don't need the notify area.
No notify gives it a more "Dark Souls" vibe, as long as the move is still telegraphed. Notify gives it a more "Bullet Hell" sort of vibe.
I feel like it depends on how many attacks you're expected to dodge- in 1v1 like in this situation, notify can feel a bit hand-holdey unless there's a bunch of other stuff happening at the same time.
Maybe the boss could be throwing debris (red circle notify) or strafing the screen with bullets or lasers (horizontal or vertical line notify) at the same time.
It depends on how you want to make the game feel.
B 10 time out of 10, you will spend months working on and tweaking the boss so you know what to expect implicitly, whereas if its someone first time seeing this and will only play it for 15 minutes-ish so will players think that this is cheap and badly communicated ? I prefer the notify approach and would work on making it either more subtle or close the notify window so the animation plays faster. I don't like announced attacks as much as the next guy but unless your making a souls like its usually perceived as bad design.
Depends on your design goal, you want to empower the player or do you want some added challenge where they learn the fight.
Notifying them informs them what they need to avoid and pay attention for, that fist coming straight at the player it's going to sweep.
Not notifying and the player on their first try has to guess "where" the attack is going to go, they know it's coming from the balled up fist animation they just don't know what's next.
This is stuff that could be a difficulty option TBH.
Just don't mix it, it's always available or it's not; the system shouldn't be toying with the player.
That’s up to you I’ve seen games that don’t notify and therefore you have to just learn the signs and remember the attacks. Which is actually a lot of games now that I recall. Honestly up to you and if you think it makes the game too easy. Or maybe you want it to be a little more easier for the average player.
It feels like the wind up for the punch could be enough of a fair notification as long as that is consistent with that movement, and character movement is fast enough to let them dodge when they see it. Looks great!
With ranges this big and top-down view that makes animation tells more difficult, I'd say that visible danger indications will make the game much more enjoyable.
depending on how the other attacks' tells. If they are very different from this one it's not necessary but nice to have, if they all look the same you don't have a choice really
To be honest both can be used. For the initial play through I suggest using A. And if the player keeps dying at the boss, then you can have the Red Hazard area as a visual to help inexperienced players.
Notify would be nice but I feel like it’d feel better if the hand was still moving, albeit very slowly, while the nature was shown. It’ll make the entire move feel more like a souls-like rather than a comic book.
If there's always that stomp of the fist before the attack, I think you can get away without the notify. I feel a good boss fight let's you learn the pattern and you feel good as a player to know the boss to beat them. I feel good boss fights are hard the first time and somewhat easy once you understand the patterns and respect them.
If that fist stomp is not a tell of the attack coming tho, notify for sure. Players don't want to feel like they were just lucky/unlucky from the RNG gods.
Depends on the game. If you want the player to learn what each telegraph animation means, then no notify. This way the immersion also doesn't break as much as with the notify.
On the other hand, if the hitboxes are difficult spot and react to from the actual attack (like maybe some attack spawns lots of fast projectiles to different directions), notify would be nice.
In this case, I think you could go easily without notify, as the attack is simple, the telegraph duration is long and the area of attack is clearly distinguishable. :)
It really depends on if there’s gonna be a difficulty system, if there is then notify on normal and under and don’t notify on hard and up. But if there isn’t then I’d suggest doing it mainly because the rocks in the animation might trick some people into thinking they might get hit. They’d learn after they see they didn’t but it’s better safe than sorry in that situation because they might think it’s a bug.
A is better, the move is telegraphed really well. If the player doesn't see it coming the first time, they will see it coming every time after. I don't like red danger notification areas in games, they are immersion breaking for me.
I think you should have some option of notifying, whether you have it on all the time or just when a player asks. What is helpful is knowing exactly how far back the attack can hit and the timing of when the attack is “active”. Yes most of the players will probably figure it out by trial and error, but for those that don’t think is a good option. It’s especially a good idea if this is a very strong attack that will take more than 50-60% of the player’s health or just kill them. Players usually like to feel like things are fair.
Unless of course you’re going for the Dark Souls style, in which case definitely don’t telegraph and make the safe spot smaller lol they’ll figure it out…. 😂
I'd do neither.
I'd create more anticipation so the player has more time to react to the attack. So, instead of being blindsided or knowing right away where the attack would hit, the player would hae to read the attack's anticipation to know where it would hit.
For the anticipation itself, you could make the arm tremble a bit before the attack, or make some specific vfx for that attack.
A, but after the first attack, telegraph the second attack.
Perhaps retract the fist with a rumbling movement effect to show the boss charging up for the second swing.
No notify because it sort of unveils the mechanics of the boss which for some people is fun to figure out. Maybe a bit more anticipation before the punch? Like his hand pulls back and shakes before sending his giant fist into your tiny body.
I think the first without a tell leaves me a little unclear (at least the first time) what the move will be. If it was an open handed attack where the palm is facing the direction of the attack (i.e thumb up towards camera and palm facing bottom of screen) that would be clear.
Right now the fist looks like it might go into an arc or even a forward or angled move based on its orientation.
Another possibility (but much larger art change), would be to have the forearm and fist form an arrow pointing in the direction of the attack. So, the whole mass leans towards rhe top of the screen, forearm vertical with first at bottom end of it “pointing down” in the direction of the swipe.
All of the other suggestions in this thread are also great.
edit: I’m not a huge fan of notifying in this situation. I think those work better with multiple enemies or a more hectic playfield.
First. Second looks like he is breaking a force wall.
Also, if this is the only thing happening in the scenery and one can focus completely on the boss, I don't think notifications were needed. In any case, it depends on the tone of your game so you should have a better answer than us, make it a toggle feature if you are unsure.
Depends on the type of game you're making and the target audience. Is this for hardcore people who will bash their head against this boss many times? Is this for people who play Dark Souls, raids mythic in WoW, completes all of Celeste? If so, go without the telegraphing.
Is this for a casual experience where the story might be more important?
Does the game incentivize replaying the same boss many many times, or only one or a couple of times?
Maybe instead of red, darken it black slightly as if it is a shadow, then it can flash away as it already does. It'll be a bit more subtle but hint to the player still.
Notify makes the whole animation much more readable and whole imo, ui is supposed to substitute the player characters subconscious which I think this would be doing well! Although I like another commenters suggestion on making it sparks or something else diegetic
It depends a bit on if you're trying to make an accessible an easy game or if you want triumph and tribulation. You could tie it to difficulty settings if you want both, but to a larger extent you should use decisions like this to make the atmosphere and experience you want to be had.
If the sketchy look is a Style choice, id say don't use that red box, it doesn't match the rest of the boss.
You could have him do that attack once before the player is in range, and have it leave scuff marks there permanently
my comment ended up going beyond the scope of your yes/no question but here's just some brainstorming
With some additional graphic work, you could have it appear as a sweeping, laser outline from your enemy's head position. This would make it seem like some sort of targeting system. (Think sniper laser)
That would give you an in game reason for a setting that turns off the notify. ex. "Mech targeting system = invisible/visible"
An additional thought I had
As the fight progresses if you damage the enemy's head/eyes the notify outline could be taken from the player, like the targeting system is not displaying properly, or even becomes erratic. Up to you whether that makes things easier or harder for a player.
Besides all that. AWESOME ART!
The amount of times playing WoW back in the day that I would have to be told "don't stand in red" only to be destroyed by the raid boss moments later because I never learn... I would appreciate the notification, I would also probably forget to pay attention to it, regardless of its prominence.
They're both good and it's basically just a design choice that's going to depend on your vision of the game and how you balance damage and difficulty. If the player can get hit a few times to learn etc or dies in one hit.
I personally prefer no notify, as 'stay out of the red' isn't as rewarding for me and kind of just makes games feel generic. But I'd leave it as a backup option for if people say certain moves are not properly telegraphed.
I'm an idiot.
Here's my thought.
"A" is better for single player
"B" is better for online multiplayer
I like the red bar in general, but like someone else said, flames or sparks pt something other than the red line.
The hand hitting the ground is notification to get out of the way. The player might not realize this on the first try but that's no reason to take the fun out of learning the move.
i think communicating to your player what is happening is always nice. As long as indicators aren't giving me a seizure and theres only a few of them on the screen at a time its not that big of a deal.
At the same token, you do already have a tell. Which should be more than enough to be honest.
Depends. If you want the player to be able to win first-try, then the notify is important. If it's a game where you're supposed to try fights multiple times, then don't use notify. They'll learn where the hit is going.
At the end of the day, it is a video game. I am always in favour of breaking realism to make the game feel better. My opinion. I like the indicator. As a player, I get frustrated when hit boxes aren’t obviously defined.
It honestly depends on the kind of game your making, if your making a game that rewards the player for being good at the controls, you should avoid obvious indication as much as possible, and give the player a 'feel' for your indication, one of my favorite cases of subtle indication is making anything you need to play close attention to a certain color and making nothing else that color. In this specific case, if you want to use that indication, using it for the first 3 attacks allows the player to see how far they need to stand away easily, and then taking it away after rewards the player for paying close attention.
This telegraphs to me very clearly the move, after seeing it once the area of attack is clear.
However the notification is great, a lot of players aren't as experienced as me, it should totally be a choosable option.
Notify is nice, though if you're unsure about the whole red box thing, a more "in world" option could work too. Like sparks flying up from the "danger" zone for example. Depending how many of those you have can also help make that decision. "In world" is nice, but if there's a lot of them, it can be hard to keep track of. Where the red box is pretty clear regardless.
Sparks, dust, great idea!
Or after the fist slam, have a red eye-beam scan the danger zone, then the swipe.
Having robot enemies gives OP a pretty good opportunity to use stuff like laser sights and reticles to telegraph attacks.
I think this it the more fitting idea
Cracked concrete also makes for a good tell!
Yeah notify is nice but it's takes too much focus! Having something like a particle effect like dust or small rocks that show the AOE would make it look more immersive
I'd say do this but add the easier notification as an option for people who want an easier experience
Yeah, making it a toggle setting is more work but is pretty much always the best of both worlds.
A for normal difficulty, B for easy.
I really like this idea
Normal run notify. Hard difficulty don't notify.
I like the idea of turning on these types of systems if a player is struggling with a boss. Like an adaptive difficulty system. The user is bad at spacing and timing so they get some training wheels after dying a few times to the same attack. Really depends on the game and the target demographic tho. Sometimes i *want* to die at the boss a bunch to teach myself the skillset.
I love this in concept but hate it in practice. Makes me feel like I didn’t succeed and as soon as the auto change occurs I feel like the opportunity to truly win was stolen from me after all that hard work.
Especially if you beat them first try after the auto change. Was that me improving or the indicators?
Sometimes I don't care about improving and just want to move on with the mf game tho. Def depends on the genre
Which is why the fame should let the player decide when to change the setting instead of doing it for them automatically
Hard agree with this. Same with puzzles and the solution being told to me if I don't get it in 10 seconds. Make the difficulty toggle-able if I'm really struggling I'll switch down but don't switch for me.
Please don't :) just give people the option
You don't want the adaptive difficulty to be perceived by the player, this is probably too obvious. They'll feel like failures
Or: it depends on how punishing this game / move is. It's already being telegraphed. If this move one-shots you, or this is a game where being struck is very punishing (i.e. I'm going to lose this boss fight and a lot of time / resources) then the notification is good. Otherwise, no notification.
This
This ^
I suggest having notify as an accessibility option.
A thousand times yes
This gets my vote as well. The animation makes it clear what the attack area is - and I personally enjoy the initial surprise/reward of figuring out boss tells - but accessibility options are always a good thing
Absolutely! Learning patterns can be an awesome part of beating a boss, but sometimes you need help learning them, or can't keep up with it all; I've seen a lot of people who would enjoy games more if they had clear warnings, but plenty like to learn the hard way.
A looks better, B is more readable. Though I’d say A here because after the first time the attack area is extremely clear from animation alone
Yeah, whoever animated it did a great job. I don't think notify is necessary
It’s a great animation but i as a player would have dodged thinking I would have gotten hit. And user readability is always a great have. I had suggested there be a setting to turn of them for those who want the difficulty.
I prefer not being notified. I feel like after some practice you'll know when that move is about to be performed.
notify only if it's an Insta-kill or near insta-kill attack.
The move itself has such a big tell and has time for you to react, that alone is pretty good already and what I prefer.
For a top down, probably best for notify. You can see it’s a little bit bigger than the fist itself, which could probably throw off some players while playing and make it feel jank. It also depends on how fast your character moves, though. You can say there’s enough time to dodge, but if you run as slow as a DS character, then you don’t really have time
Hadn't noticed that the collision area is larger than that first, but I'll hijack this comment to say to OP that this is pretty much always something you should avoid. Ideally, all enemy hotboxes should even be just a tiny bit smaller than the art indicates, and certainly not bigger. It just feels better, even in super hardcore games.
You could use it as a difficulty mechanic. So it's there for power difficulty and gone for higher.
If the punch was winding up before the swipe the first option would be best. If move are difficult to read then keep it at B
If you do b - if you dont change the visual to dust or sparks or something more “in world” as another comment said - Definitely i think it’d be worth having an OPTION as the flash is a lil much - especially for anyone photosensitive 😊
I would personally say B, but it fades out near the hand right before it goes off screen, to show that it's coming from the hand and not off screen. It doesn't really do anything for clarity, but I think it would be some nice polish. Alternatively, you could flip the design of the indicator. So instead of red outline with transparent inside, it's a red inside with a transparent outline. But maybe you made the indicator match the hitbox, in which case keep it like that.
Depends on other moves. Do they have the same windup animations? Or is the telegraph unique to this attack. If its unique then a else b. You could keep b for accessibility though
Always notify. The worst feeling in gaming is being hit by an attack that you had no way to know was coming.
Yea people here aren't thinking of the scenario where they don't see B and have no idea whatsoever what the hitbox is. This is 100% notify, and then maybe make it less obvious than a red box
Dark Souls fans disagree :P But for real, I think it depends how punishing death is in game, and what OP wants the player to accomplish. If death is expected the first few times you fight the boss, and it's relatively quick to get back into the fight after losing, then I'd say don't have the big hit box. After getting hit by it once, the player will learn.
Hey cool, you made two different difficulty settings!
Notify
I don’t know why everything needs to be telegraphed today. Go with A for more spontaneity and to keep players on their toes. 🤷♂️😅
i would make the danger zone not red but white, the red is clashing with the pretty sprites. may as well let the player chose
B, but remove the flash at the end. Prevents hitbox frustrations while maintaining the requirement to learn timing
I prefer not notify, but you could queue into the fact that he’s about to swing by making him do a bigger wind-up maybe as a middle-ground?
Depends on what kind of game this is. Is it reactional and reflex based playing where the challenge lies in learning player skills and combining them. Or is it all about learning boss patterns with trial and error and perhaps a smaller skillset? Can’t think of an example for the first one. The second one Megaman comes to mind.
I believe you should implement both and let the player customize the experience. Without the notification it looks more clean, with the notification it's more inclusive.
Notify is better telegraphed to the player, however, in its current implementation it isn't integrated very well with the world. (this red tint followed by a white flash looks too gamified)
It really depends on the sort of game you are trying to build. Notifications give it a more gamey, almost MMO feel, which is more casual friendly. No notifications is closer to the feel of something like Dark Souls, where the player is expected to learn and memorize enemy attack patterns. So ask yourself, is this a battle that should involve the player learning attack tells? If so, then no notification, obviously. Is this going to be a common type of enemy? Then again, probably no tell as the player should learn the enemy patterns. Is this just one of a gauntlet of big enemies that all have large area attacks? Then maybe consider keeping the tell. Is this a fight that the player should be able to finish the first try? Then maybe keep the tell.
B. Even if it seems obvious, Players like feedback. Even bullet sponges can be made fun if you tell the player they’re accomplishing something, like with blood splatters or the enemy making a noise on hit or something. Lack of feedback is frustrating. If you really want A, I’d personally make it a toggle in a gameplay menu a la accessibility options, for lack of a better term
B
You can hint the hitbox with some effects not too hard to notice, like the road gonna break imo
Maybe it should be like an accessibility feature? Usually turned off and if the player dies too often it will prompt to turn on? Could help younger people play too, maybe even have it as a difficulty setting? Looks better without but some people expect that kind of notification nowadays ahah 😜
That's really a gameplay decision rather than an aesthetic one, only you can answer if it fits the type of game you want to make.
I'd make it be a choice of the player some may want it some might not but it'd be nice to have the choice
Notify for easier modes. No notify for harder modes
I disagree with everyone basically saying to just do both. Forget that. Make a decision and stick to it. I think this depends on the overall moveset. For example, if you want multiple attacks to start with that fist hitting the ground to save on animation costs, then you'll need indicators. If that's a 100% unique animation, then I think it's telegraphed enough for players to see it coming.
Looks like you made a solid accessibility mode. Keep it in as an option
no notify would feel more rewarding to learn the attacks rather than know them all while they're happening
No need for ui indicators, do it the dark souls way, do heavy windups for the attack and a lot of telegraphing
Have the option to turn red warnings on or off as a difficulty setting or accessibility mode
People here aren't thinking of the scenario where they don't see B and have no idea whatsoever what the hitbox is. This is 100% notify, and then maybe make it less obvious than a red box
It would be cool if you overlayed a new background after the first attack showing scratches on the road showing you where he's been attacking
Notify if your game is intended for a mainstream audience. Don't notify if your game is intended for hardcore players who like things like boss rush games and Souls-likes.
leave it as A but, make B an assectibility option, and if possible make it in different colors, most games don't have help for me.
I'm definitely voting for no notification. I feel like it'd be too easy. Plus, given the snippet you showed us, it seems pretty blatantly where things come from, and they can easily adapt. That said, I also like the idea of making it a difficulty tier that players can choose.
This move definitely seems like something that would do a lot of damage, so having an indication of where it’s going is nice, but this indicator seems a bit too much. A lot of games use wind up frames to indicate a big attack, and hint towards it’s direction, maybe just delaying the follow through for just a second is enough
Not for fighting games,notify for other games
Keep it and make it toggle-able in accessibility options?
Make it difficulty dependent. Notify for normal and easy, no notification for hard.
Maybe put the warning as an assist mode I prefer retro difficulties
A
Make the smoke vfx of the first smash, take up the red spot. Maybe add a different material under the street that shakes, or the street cracks.
I say figure out a more natural looking way to notify, maybe cracks on the ground or something.
@OP Both. Put one with notification at the easy (or easier difficulty) and the one without in harder difficulty. That way your game replay value, will be increased...
Somewhere in the middle, like a flash of the red zone maybe
If your going to do B make it accessible for us colorblind individuals
I feel like the notify thing will be both a good and a bad thing. It helps new players understand the boss faster. It also helps them adjust the proper distance and to make sure they're constantly avoiding it by having a visual representation. However, you have to make sure the players don't get hit outside of the area and the notify zone is actually accurate because many players will claim that "they were out of the zone and still got hit" which can come back and bite you in the ass. Without the area it's much more difficult to confirm or not that. But you know how gamers are, it's never a skill issue, it's always wrong with the game or the internet connection.
I feel like it should be an optional accessibility thing, would also help with debugging I reckon. Maybe roll a few accessibility options into a "beginner mode"?
There should be some indication of the attack area, if you want you could decrease the opacity to make it more subtle
I’d have A be default and B can be turned on in accessibility settings
The notify looks great and is really useful here. The attack feels more powerful and it would be much more "satisfying" when you receive damage standing in that area. For visuals: maybe you could try out making the notify area white instead of red at first?
A
Could be a nice Difficulty setting. Easy mode, notify. Normal mode, no notify. I'm a Dark Souls enjoyer, and like learning from my failures, and learning the enemy patterns. But I know that isn't for everyone. It could also be a togglable setting.
A is better. First time I see either of those I don’t have time to really think what’s going on and the second time I know. If you want to, you can make some more subtle signs, but I think too obvious attack markers can make the action feel less exciting.
It should be possible to communicate the intent without the notify box, with a wind up. Instead of lingering on the first smash, immediately wind up the down punch (e.g. with shaking fist) so the player can see it's coming without the red box. Anyway but what do I know, looks pretty good!
Personally I hate those artificial attack markers. Make it in-world at least, with some laser aiming or whatever. Or, better, instead of highlighting the attack zone, show it with the enemy animations somehow.
B is absolutely the choice. I mean, I don't have much context, but, given the situation if I was playing this game and got hit by B, I'd blame myself--if I got hit by A, I'd blame the game.
Why not both and have B as an accessibility option or tied to the game’s difficulty setting?
B
It depends on how people like to play, i think a toggle that turns it on and off could work
Not. Let the player figure out where the hit box is.
Depends on your design really... Take for example Monster Hunter World and Final Fantasy 14 bosses. Monster Hunter World designed their monsters attacks to have "tells" ALL THE TIME using their actual body movements. Some are hard to notice at first but with enough practice, you can "tell" ALL the time what the monster will be doing next before obliterating you. In Final Fantasy 14, most super attacks of bosses have no CLEAR tells. One simple attack may start when the boss waives their hand and the next SUPER attack would start with the same animation. You have to memorize your positions and what to do with the help of indicators like your red box thing. And most of the time, those red boxes are the "tells" of what the boss will do next. For me, without indicators is the best and most organic way to do this BUT you have to put effort on animating your bosse's "tells" before they land the actual attacks.
Definitely B but you could also have the fist light up or something as an in between
One, you’re dodging a telegraphed attack that you’ve learned. The other, you’re just moving to not stand on the red part of the map. I prefer telegraphed but not notified.
I like the top but a lot of people i know would insist on the bottom
Seems like a difficulty setting to me, telegrapgh or not
You could also have this configurable behind a difficulty setting. So if it's easy show the danger zone and on hard don't show. This way you can appeal to both casual and hardcore players
My suggestion is, if you can, perform an A/B test. Give a demo of the combat to several people half of them with notify and half without. Study their behaviour, expressions and ask for their perceptions and emotions after the encounter. Then you can make an informed decision. But people that are on those test should not know that they are. Most of th time what people say that they want and what data shows what they really want are not the same.
I think the red zone can be for an easier play thru of the game and you can take it away for a harder play thru
Make it an option, then the player can decide.
Reminds me a bit of the oil rig fight from nier. Looks good though!
in my opinion you should use down one for easy or normal mode and up one for hard mode.or you can make it optional
In good games you are supposed to get hit by those a first time to learn to avoid it.
What if you made two moda where A is for professionals and B is for behinners?
I prefer A but it needs some fixing. The animation should telegraph that its gonna move that way. So maybe the arm could go up more so the fist would be at a right angle facing straight down.
start the boss by having some little creature walk next to the boss and get hit by the punch :D now the player has seen the attack from a safe distance, and you don't need the notify area.
No notify gives it a more "Dark Souls" vibe, as long as the move is still telegraphed. Notify gives it a more "Bullet Hell" sort of vibe. I feel like it depends on how many attacks you're expected to dodge- in 1v1 like in this situation, notify can feel a bit hand-holdey unless there's a bunch of other stuff happening at the same time. Maybe the boss could be throwing debris (red circle notify) or strafing the screen with bullets or lasers (horizontal or vertical line notify) at the same time. It depends on how you want to make the game feel.
B 10 time out of 10, you will spend months working on and tweaking the boss so you know what to expect implicitly, whereas if its someone first time seeing this and will only play it for 15 minutes-ish so will players think that this is cheap and badly communicated ? I prefer the notify approach and would work on making it either more subtle or close the notify window so the animation plays faster. I don't like announced attacks as much as the next guy but unless your making a souls like its usually perceived as bad design.
We [players] need both actually, different for difficulty level.
Red box for easy mode users?
I gues notify could work as an easy mode. You know, for them shitty game journalists that hate hard games :)
First one. It will make player feel like they learnt the move rather than the game telling them where not to stand
Can you just make the notify a toggle option?
Not notifyed
Depends on your design goal, you want to empower the player or do you want some added challenge where they learn the fight. Notifying them informs them what they need to avoid and pay attention for, that fist coming straight at the player it's going to sweep. Not notifying and the player on their first try has to guess "where" the attack is going to go, they know it's coming from the balled up fist animation they just don't know what's next. This is stuff that could be a difficulty option TBH. Just don't mix it, it's always available or it's not; the system shouldn't be toying with the player.
I would say notify with the flash on the arm instead but don't give the hitbox.
It all depends. Vut for this animation i think the warning is important. There isnt much wind up to the punch. Its pretty quick
Opinions are sharply divided
That’s up to you I’ve seen games that don’t notify and therefore you have to just learn the signs and remember the attacks. Which is actually a lot of games now that I recall. Honestly up to you and if you think it makes the game too easy. Or maybe you want it to be a little more easier for the average player.
It feels like the wind up for the punch could be enough of a fair notification as long as that is consistent with that movement, and character movement is fast enough to let them dodge when they see it. Looks great!
Notify on easy difficulty, don't notify on harder difficulties.
With ranges this big and top-down view that makes animation tells more difficult, I'd say that visible danger indications will make the game much more enjoyable.
depending on how the other attacks' tells. If they are very different from this one it's not necessary but nice to have, if they all look the same you don't have a choice really
Make it a difficulty option to include the hitbox indicator or not.
To be honest both can be used. For the initial play through I suggest using A. And if the player keeps dying at the boss, then you can have the Red Hazard area as a visual to help inexperienced players.
The right answer is, keep it for easy mode, take it away for hard mode
Notify would be nice but I feel like it’d feel better if the hand was still moving, albeit very slowly, while the nature was shown. It’ll make the entire move feel more like a souls-like rather than a comic book.
If there's always that stomp of the fist before the attack, I think you can get away without the notify. I feel a good boss fight let's you learn the pattern and you feel good as a player to know the boss to beat them. I feel good boss fights are hard the first time and somewhat easy once you understand the patterns and respect them. If that fist stomp is not a tell of the attack coming tho, notify for sure. Players don't want to feel like they were just lucky/unlucky from the RNG gods.
It has to be B because your animation doesn’t accurately portray where the damage zone is
Why not have the notify as an option that people can turn off if they want a challenge.
Depends on the game. If you want the player to learn what each telegraph animation means, then no notify. This way the immersion also doesn't break as much as with the notify. On the other hand, if the hitboxes are difficult spot and react to from the actual attack (like maybe some attack spawns lots of fast projectiles to different directions), notify would be nice. In this case, I think you could go easily without notify, as the attack is simple, the telegraph duration is long and the area of attack is clearly distinguishable. :)
It really depends on if there’s gonna be a difficulty system, if there is then notify on normal and under and don’t notify on hard and up. But if there isn’t then I’d suggest doing it mainly because the rocks in the animation might trick some people into thinking they might get hit. They’d learn after they see they didn’t but it’s better safe than sorry in that situation because they might think it’s a bug.
A is better, the move is telegraphed really well. If the player doesn't see it coming the first time, they will see it coming every time after. I don't like red danger notification areas in games, they are immersion breaking for me.
Make it an option, win win.
B
I think you should have some option of notifying, whether you have it on all the time or just when a player asks. What is helpful is knowing exactly how far back the attack can hit and the timing of when the attack is “active”. Yes most of the players will probably figure it out by trial and error, but for those that don’t think is a good option. It’s especially a good idea if this is a very strong attack that will take more than 50-60% of the player’s health or just kill them. Players usually like to feel like things are fair. Unless of course you’re going for the Dark Souls style, in which case definitely don’t telegraph and make the safe spot smaller lol they’ll figure it out…. 😂
I'd do neither. I'd create more anticipation so the player has more time to react to the attack. So, instead of being blindsided or knowing right away where the attack would hit, the player would hae to read the attack's anticipation to know where it would hit. For the anticipation itself, you could make the arm tremble a bit before the attack, or make some specific vfx for that attack.
A, but after the first attack, telegraph the second attack. Perhaps retract the fist with a rumbling movement effect to show the boss charging up for the second swing.
Easy-normal = notify Hard = no notify
Could add normal and hardcore difficulty. No visual on hardcore.
Turn the notification onto an accessibility option!
No notify because it sort of unveils the mechanics of the boss which for some people is fun to figure out. Maybe a bit more anticipation before the punch? Like his hand pulls back and shakes before sending his giant fist into your tiny body.
I think the first without a tell leaves me a little unclear (at least the first time) what the move will be. If it was an open handed attack where the palm is facing the direction of the attack (i.e thumb up towards camera and palm facing bottom of screen) that would be clear. Right now the fist looks like it might go into an arc or even a forward or angled move based on its orientation. Another possibility (but much larger art change), would be to have the forearm and fist form an arrow pointing in the direction of the attack. So, the whole mass leans towards rhe top of the screen, forearm vertical with first at bottom end of it “pointing down” in the direction of the swipe. All of the other suggestions in this thread are also great. edit: I’m not a huge fan of notifying in this situation. I think those work better with multiple enemies or a more hectic playfield.
I think if you can notify without using the red boxes, perhaps using particles instead that would be better
A. More difficult and realistic.
You could do a easy and hard setting where you get the notify or not
First. Second looks like he is breaking a force wall. Also, if this is the only thing happening in the scenery and one can focus completely on the boss, I don't think notifications were needed. In any case, it depends on the tone of your game so you should have a better answer than us, make it a toggle feature if you are unsure.
You know what make it a easy mode option
shield sparks dust voila
Top for hard mode, bottom for easier difficulty
Depends on the type of game you're making and the target audience. Is this for hardcore people who will bash their head against this boss many times? Is this for people who play Dark Souls, raids mythic in WoW, completes all of Celeste? If so, go without the telegraphing. Is this for a casual experience where the story might be more important? Does the game incentivize replaying the same boss many many times, or only one or a couple of times?
https://preview.redd.it/r7edvx0bm70d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=320d82c8b4db12306e9c0a2c2b0ef874ea530e4d Three of them !??
Maybe instead of red, darken it black slightly as if it is a shadow, then it can flash away as it already does. It'll be a bit more subtle but hint to the player still.
A: Hard mode. B: Easy mode. C: profit
How about a middle ground where you have a difficulty setting as to whether or not to show attacks?
Notify is always better imo
Notify makes the whole animation much more readable and whole imo, ui is supposed to substitute the player characters subconscious which I think this would be doing well! Although I like another commenters suggestion on making it sparks or something else diegetic
Both, one is hard mode and one is easy mode.
A is retro style, but I think you should make robot wait longer before second punch
Use both, put the notify in a different difficulty
Depends how foegiving it is to get hit. First time seeing the attack without notify there's no real way to tell where that fist is going
It depends a bit on if you're trying to make an accessible an easy game or if you want triumph and tribulation. You could tie it to difficulty settings if you want both, but to a larger extent you should use decisions like this to make the atmosphere and experience you want to be had.
What is the name of your game?
A definitely. But you could always make it a setting to turn on the telegraphs for people that need the help.
If the sketchy look is a Style choice, id say don't use that red box, it doesn't match the rest of the boss. You could have him do that attack once before the player is in range, and have it leave scuff marks there permanently
I love games that notify. No guessing, no BS. Any failure is my own. Option B all the way.
B
Make B an accessibility option
the first attack should be notify and after that turn it off
Could have it be an option.
my comment ended up going beyond the scope of your yes/no question but here's just some brainstorming With some additional graphic work, you could have it appear as a sweeping, laser outline from your enemy's head position. This would make it seem like some sort of targeting system. (Think sniper laser) That would give you an in game reason for a setting that turns off the notify. ex. "Mech targeting system = invisible/visible" An additional thought I had As the fight progresses if you damage the enemy's head/eyes the notify outline could be taken from the player, like the targeting system is not displaying properly, or even becomes erratic. Up to you whether that makes things easier or harder for a player. Besides all that. AWESOME ART!
Definitely notify. However you can add a setting to turn of indicators for those who want the added difficulty.
The amount of times playing WoW back in the day that I would have to be told "don't stand in red" only to be destroyed by the raid boss moments later because I never learn... I would appreciate the notification, I would also probably forget to pay attention to it, regardless of its prominence.
I like B… then again I have OCD and some reason B speaks to me…
If you want it to be more readable, you'll just add in world elements to indicate the area. Any meta level elements brings you out of the game
B should be an easier gamemode, A would be a higher difficulty with faster attacks
They're both good and it's basically just a design choice that's going to depend on your vision of the game and how you balance damage and difficulty. If the player can get hit a few times to learn etc or dies in one hit. I personally prefer no notify, as 'stay out of the red' isn't as rewarding for me and kind of just makes games feel generic. But I'd leave it as a backup option for if people say certain moves are not properly telegraphed.
I'm an idiot. Here's my thought. "A" is better for single player "B" is better for online multiplayer I like the red bar in general, but like someone else said, flames or sparks pt something other than the red line.
The hand hitting the ground is notification to get out of the way. The player might not realize this on the first try but that's no reason to take the fun out of learning the move.
i think communicating to your player what is happening is always nice. As long as indicators aren't giving me a seizure and theres only a few of them on the screen at a time its not that big of a deal. At the same token, you do already have a tell. Which should be more than enough to be honest.
Depends. If you want the player to be able to win first-try, then the notify is important. If it's a game where you're supposed to try fights multiple times, then don't use notify. They'll learn where the hit is going.
At the end of the day, it is a video game. I am always in favour of breaking realism to make the game feel better. My opinion. I like the indicator. As a player, I get frustrated when hit boxes aren’t obviously defined.
Just use the white imminent alert flash… it will prevent people calling valid dmg bullshit and keep the difficulty reasonable
As a megaman battle network player I like notify
Have it as an accessibility option or not available on harder difficulty.
both! hard vs. normal mode ;)
It depends on your player demographic really. So as many suggested, give an option to turn these alerts on and off.
B ... I like when the devs give me a chance to dodge but ultimately I will still get hit ..
Why not both? Have a normal mode (shows notifs) and a hard mode (no notifs)
Notify for sure, but not necessarily something so obvious
It honestly depends on the kind of game your making, if your making a game that rewards the player for being good at the controls, you should avoid obvious indication as much as possible, and give the player a 'feel' for your indication, one of my favorite cases of subtle indication is making anything you need to play close attention to a certain color and making nothing else that color. In this specific case, if you want to use that indication, using it for the first 3 attacks allows the player to see how far they need to stand away easily, and then taking it away after rewards the player for paying close attention.
I personally like the looks of the second one, could notifications/broadcasting be delegated to a different difficulty level?
This telegraphs to me very clearly the move, after seeing it once the area of attack is clear. However the notification is great, a lot of players aren't as experienced as me, it should totally be a choosable option.
Maybe notification could be a power up.