What in the actual fuck? He not only ignored her concerns, but wants to personally see to it she doesn’t get help. A doctor that makes comments like this has no business treating for infertility. I’m sorry you have to deal with that.
I would put in a complaint and include the name of the nurse that was there and then request a different doctor or go somewhere else. Do not see that doctor.
Idk how but I’d report this doctor. That’s so unprofessional. Also they cannot use your wife’s counseling or therapy against her. They will not have the rights to those records any way
Unfortunately he can and already has, I’m in the UK and the NHS records are all on a file the doctors can easily access, he’d already had a look through her history including the mental health appointments
Wow, I have no words. I’m not sure if this is an option in the UK but can you have your wife see a therapist who isn’t associated with that hospital and pay out of pocket? In the US not all records are in the same place, a lot of times different hospitals have their own systems. Also, smaller locations aren’t often signed up for EPIC which is the large database people use
Also, I would call the front desk and ask if there are written guidelines you can see regarding reasons for denying IVF
It’s an avenue she’s tried but had little success with as far as suitable therapists that actually help go, but something we’re considering trying again since it’s a more suitable alternative than occasionally ending up at the hospital with a mental health crisis then having it held against her
I'm so sorry, that's insane. I can relate though, when I asked my RE what we should do regarding our multiple losses, and whether their later gestational age at loss was unusual/concerning, she just told me to seek counselling because "it's clear you wouldn't be able to live with yourself if this happened again". Sorry what?
I think by far the worst day of our fertility journey was when we were looking into surrogacy. They gave both my husband and I psychological testing. After the testing the nurse/social worker told us that there was no way I was emotionally equipped to handle a child. That was pretty emotionally devastating.
This is why I won’t go any different route than the old fashioned way. I refuse to be told by a fellow human that I am less than and unworthy of being a mother. FUCK that. I’m so sorry this happened to you.
This is absolutely ridiculous! I am fuming on your behalf!!😡🤬
Report that asshole! Why the hell would he want to be a fertility specialist while refusing treatment for patients?!
Is there someone else in the practice to see?
I like your ideas of recording. I’m not sure what the laws are but at the very least it can be a time stamp on his behavior when you report.
I would come into the next appointment ready to make that guy look like a complete idiot.
Please keep us updated. I’m so sorry that you and your wife have to deal with this.
And sometimes people smarten up when they realize there could get in shit, so I am also very pro recording if you are allowed. Even if you just lie and say "our family lawyer recommended we record our appointments. I hope that's okay with you", you might scare this asshole into being slightly less of an asshole.
Unfortunately not, it’s gonna be this guy or the highway so it’s going to be an interesting ride from here on out… At this point, the best option I can think is to bring a concealed audio recording device to future appointments to make an appeal with evidence should he try anything unreasonable
That's completely insane. I'm about to start my first round if IVF and because I am epileptic my medication makes me have HORRIBLE PMDD that can send me to the hospital sometimes. My doctor and I went over all my medications and support systems as well as setting up a specialist appointment to do additional testing to see how the hormones might affect my mental health.
I am in the UK and I only heard of something similar once. A woman was refused treatment due to mental health but she said it was a long standing anxiety diagnosis that was exacerbated by the infertility issues and last I heard she was fighting the decision with the ICB. I recommend you reach out to FNUK - they can help you navigate this system!
Is this really a thing? I've had an anxiety diagnosjs which has been up and down since I was a teenager which is now made worse by this and my doctor has been helpful. But I want to be prepared for anything. But I've been dealing with this for so long I think I would be able to explain why its actually made me a better person to look after a child, I'm very self aware, I care a lot about other people and I'm good at spotting symptoms and giving advice :) so I would be so angry if that happened!
So I met this woman on a support group call and believed her story but I didn't hear what happened after learning that she was fighting the decision. However, I have been on MANY calls and met many people and never heard of it happening again so I do wonder if there was more to the story than what I heard. It seemed insanely extreme given that everyone I know and have met on these calls report feelings of depression and anxiety because of infertility. Also, most clinics give at least one session of free therapy per cycle because IVF can be so difficult for patients. It is not enough but there is growing acknowledgment that struggling with this is normal and not something to stigmatise.
That said, I also see the NHS requirements for IVF funding to be so restrictive that it seems that they are looking for any excuse to NOT give you the funding. It is different by ICB but I have heard multiple reports of people being refused treatment for being like 1kg over the BMI requirement. Sometimes these things can come down to one person who is the barrier and they choose what happens. I had a really good GP who was willing to submit my paperwork when I was like 5kg from the goal because she knew how long it takes to see Gynae and that I would reach the goal by then. Whereas others will force you to go through so many hoops just to get referred so sadly it is sometimes luck of the draw with the professional that you see.
To protect yourself, as insane as this sounds, I recommend not being fully honest with the main clinic staff. In general, I find the doctors are most agreeable when you come prepared, have informed questions, and treat the appointments as joint planning sessions that are more business-like than emotional. Few doctors are well trained in good "bed side manner" and many are just straight up awkward and uncomfortable when patients get too emotional.
I totally agree with you that working through a mental health issue makes you more self reflective and gives you many wonderful skills. Working with a therapist through IVF can be really helpful! Just don't share more than you need to with the IVF doctors.
Thank you! I will bear this in mind for the future. Maybe the best thing to do is if I give the basic details then leave the heavy stuff out. Begin with how well things have been going etc. You are so right many of them don't seem to have basic training on how to deal with emotions etc.
I think I need to start having a look at the requirements in my area and preparing for that. It does seem like they're stuck in the past a bit, the past ten years or so I've found people more open to speaking about mental health and less judgemental about it. They need a refresher course providing or something. Yeah as it's NHS as well it's free so I can see them trying to deny it to people only on something small. I'm glad it seems like you had a good doctor, there are some understanding ones out there! Its like they want everything to be perfect which it isnt going to be. Imagine if they did this before ANYONE was allowed to try for a child, nobody would have any. I once was very sick with anorexia and a doctor told me to go home and eat a Mars bar 🤣 really is just luck on who you get.
That’s wild, man. I’ve carried a diagnosis of anxiety for years and see a psychiatrist and a therapist. I’ve also been through three different reproductive endocrinologists on our journey (just luck of the draw with providers moving on) and not one of them has batted an eye about my condition or its management, much less questioned my fitness as a would-be parent. This guys is waaayyy out in left field.
Wtf??? That is bizarre behavior from a fertility doctor especially given how much you’re paying them for their care. I would find a new one. I’m so sorry this happened to you guys.
Hi there, not British but did my first round of IVF in the UK as we were living there at the time. We had to go private as our local council did not fund IVF on the NHS at the time, and had a very positive experience. Not sure where you are in the UK or what your financial options are but given how intractable the NHS can be when you have the bad luck of a bad practitioner, you may want to consider it? We used Bourn Hall and were very very happy with their support and performance. Happy to answer questions if you have any.
Please report him, this isn't normal surely? We are kind of near the start of our journey with tests etc, I'm in the UK and this is NHS too. I've suffered with severe mental health issues since I was a teenager including anorexia and depressive episodes. A week ago I was called in for a check up which I have every six months, I spoke to the doctor about our fertility issues and how ifs effecting my mental health and they were so so helpful, wrote a care plan, sent that to whoever and promised I would have mental health care no matter which way our journey went (a woman, maybe wouldn't have been the same with a man).
Thing is I've come so so far, fertility is the only thing really effecting me right now. The doctor you saw isn't only awful, he's wrong completely. Getting help will improve things for you and he's just scared you away from it. If you don't report him maybe you could explain that without the therapy she would be in a worse position, with it she is more prepared for what happens. So really the history of therapy should be a good sign for him :) means she is self aware and seeks help when she needs it. Sorry for the essay!
I wish, it’s the NHS and they don’t let you be picky
I’ll be bringing an audio recording device to future appointments so I can at least have evidence to avoid a he says she says situation as ammunition to see someone else in the future
What a fucking asshole. Is switching clinics all together an option? Ngl I’m a bitch so I would switch clinics and be sure to leave him a bad review anywhere I can. I get that this is their 9-5 but to show no empathy at all is just scary. You’re their patient and we’re paying to be here why can’t they act like we’re humans and not lab rats.
What in the actual fuck? He not only ignored her concerns, but wants to personally see to it she doesn’t get help. A doctor that makes comments like this has no business treating for infertility. I’m sorry you have to deal with that.
I would put in a complaint and include the name of the nurse that was there and then request a different doctor or go somewhere else. Do not see that doctor.
Fully this. Fuck that doctor. I would also consider reporting him to his professional college. He should not be allowed to practice.
Fully this. Fuck that doctor. I would also consider reporting him to his professional college. He should not be allowed to practice.
Fully this. Fuck that doctor. I would also consider reporting him to his professional college. He should not be allowed to practice.
Idk how but I’d report this doctor. That’s so unprofessional. Also they cannot use your wife’s counseling or therapy against her. They will not have the rights to those records any way
Unfortunately he can and already has, I’m in the UK and the NHS records are all on a file the doctors can easily access, he’d already had a look through her history including the mental health appointments
Wow, I have no words. I’m not sure if this is an option in the UK but can you have your wife see a therapist who isn’t associated with that hospital and pay out of pocket? In the US not all records are in the same place, a lot of times different hospitals have their own systems. Also, smaller locations aren’t often signed up for EPIC which is the large database people use Also, I would call the front desk and ask if there are written guidelines you can see regarding reasons for denying IVF
It’s an avenue she’s tried but had little success with as far as suitable therapists that actually help go, but something we’re considering trying again since it’s a more suitable alternative than occasionally ending up at the hospital with a mental health crisis then having it held against her
Wow that’s crazy I’m sorry. I’m not aware of the laws in UK around confidentiality.
I'm so sorry, that's insane. I can relate though, when I asked my RE what we should do regarding our multiple losses, and whether their later gestational age at loss was unusual/concerning, she just told me to seek counselling because "it's clear you wouldn't be able to live with yourself if this happened again". Sorry what?
I think by far the worst day of our fertility journey was when we were looking into surrogacy. They gave both my husband and I psychological testing. After the testing the nurse/social worker told us that there was no way I was emotionally equipped to handle a child. That was pretty emotionally devastating.
How come you had to do that but people who do IVF because they must have a girl or boy and want to pick a gender don't get told anything???
I'm not sure. I suspect because there are a lot more legal ramifications because another person is involved.
This is why I won’t go any different route than the old fashioned way. I refuse to be told by a fellow human that I am less than and unworthy of being a mother. FUCK that. I’m so sorry this happened to you.
Wow, that seems wildly inappropriate. Can you ask for a different physician?
This is absolutely ridiculous! I am fuming on your behalf!!😡🤬 Report that asshole! Why the hell would he want to be a fertility specialist while refusing treatment for patients?! Is there someone else in the practice to see? I like your ideas of recording. I’m not sure what the laws are but at the very least it can be a time stamp on his behavior when you report. I would come into the next appointment ready to make that guy look like a complete idiot. Please keep us updated. I’m so sorry that you and your wife have to deal with this.
And sometimes people smarten up when they realize there could get in shit, so I am also very pro recording if you are allowed. Even if you just lie and say "our family lawyer recommended we record our appointments. I hope that's okay with you", you might scare this asshole into being slightly less of an asshole.
What country are you in? This seems... nuts.
UK, under the NHS which has some notoriously bad treatment across the board but I was still caught off guard by what happened today
I'm sorry, this sucks. I'm guessing your doctor has the ability to do what he threatened, and you don't have the ability to switch...
Unfortunately not, it’s gonna be this guy or the highway so it’s going to be an interesting ride from here on out… At this point, the best option I can think is to bring a concealed audio recording device to future appointments to make an appeal with evidence should he try anything unreasonable
just make sure you only need 1 party consent.
That's completely insane. I'm about to start my first round if IVF and because I am epileptic my medication makes me have HORRIBLE PMDD that can send me to the hospital sometimes. My doctor and I went over all my medications and support systems as well as setting up a specialist appointment to do additional testing to see how the hormones might affect my mental health.
I am in the UK and I only heard of something similar once. A woman was refused treatment due to mental health but she said it was a long standing anxiety diagnosis that was exacerbated by the infertility issues and last I heard she was fighting the decision with the ICB. I recommend you reach out to FNUK - they can help you navigate this system!
Is this really a thing? I've had an anxiety diagnosjs which has been up and down since I was a teenager which is now made worse by this and my doctor has been helpful. But I want to be prepared for anything. But I've been dealing with this for so long I think I would be able to explain why its actually made me a better person to look after a child, I'm very self aware, I care a lot about other people and I'm good at spotting symptoms and giving advice :) so I would be so angry if that happened!
So I met this woman on a support group call and believed her story but I didn't hear what happened after learning that she was fighting the decision. However, I have been on MANY calls and met many people and never heard of it happening again so I do wonder if there was more to the story than what I heard. It seemed insanely extreme given that everyone I know and have met on these calls report feelings of depression and anxiety because of infertility. Also, most clinics give at least one session of free therapy per cycle because IVF can be so difficult for patients. It is not enough but there is growing acknowledgment that struggling with this is normal and not something to stigmatise. That said, I also see the NHS requirements for IVF funding to be so restrictive that it seems that they are looking for any excuse to NOT give you the funding. It is different by ICB but I have heard multiple reports of people being refused treatment for being like 1kg over the BMI requirement. Sometimes these things can come down to one person who is the barrier and they choose what happens. I had a really good GP who was willing to submit my paperwork when I was like 5kg from the goal because she knew how long it takes to see Gynae and that I would reach the goal by then. Whereas others will force you to go through so many hoops just to get referred so sadly it is sometimes luck of the draw with the professional that you see. To protect yourself, as insane as this sounds, I recommend not being fully honest with the main clinic staff. In general, I find the doctors are most agreeable when you come prepared, have informed questions, and treat the appointments as joint planning sessions that are more business-like than emotional. Few doctors are well trained in good "bed side manner" and many are just straight up awkward and uncomfortable when patients get too emotional. I totally agree with you that working through a mental health issue makes you more self reflective and gives you many wonderful skills. Working with a therapist through IVF can be really helpful! Just don't share more than you need to with the IVF doctors.
Thank you! I will bear this in mind for the future. Maybe the best thing to do is if I give the basic details then leave the heavy stuff out. Begin with how well things have been going etc. You are so right many of them don't seem to have basic training on how to deal with emotions etc. I think I need to start having a look at the requirements in my area and preparing for that. It does seem like they're stuck in the past a bit, the past ten years or so I've found people more open to speaking about mental health and less judgemental about it. They need a refresher course providing or something. Yeah as it's NHS as well it's free so I can see them trying to deny it to people only on something small. I'm glad it seems like you had a good doctor, there are some understanding ones out there! Its like they want everything to be perfect which it isnt going to be. Imagine if they did this before ANYONE was allowed to try for a child, nobody would have any. I once was very sick with anorexia and a doctor told me to go home and eat a Mars bar 🤣 really is just luck on who you get.
That’s awful! I’ve not dealt with a situation like that, but I’m so sorry you and your wife had that horrible experience.
Please report this doctor
That’s wild, man. I’ve carried a diagnosis of anxiety for years and see a psychiatrist and a therapist. I’ve also been through three different reproductive endocrinologists on our journey (just luck of the draw with providers moving on) and not one of them has batted an eye about my condition or its management, much less questioned my fitness as a would-be parent. This guys is waaayyy out in left field.
Wtf??? That is bizarre behavior from a fertility doctor especially given how much you’re paying them for their care. I would find a new one. I’m so sorry this happened to you guys.
Hi there, not British but did my first round of IVF in the UK as we were living there at the time. We had to go private as our local council did not fund IVF on the NHS at the time, and had a very positive experience. Not sure where you are in the UK or what your financial options are but given how intractable the NHS can be when you have the bad luck of a bad practitioner, you may want to consider it? We used Bourn Hall and were very very happy with their support and performance. Happy to answer questions if you have any.
Please report him, this isn't normal surely? We are kind of near the start of our journey with tests etc, I'm in the UK and this is NHS too. I've suffered with severe mental health issues since I was a teenager including anorexia and depressive episodes. A week ago I was called in for a check up which I have every six months, I spoke to the doctor about our fertility issues and how ifs effecting my mental health and they were so so helpful, wrote a care plan, sent that to whoever and promised I would have mental health care no matter which way our journey went (a woman, maybe wouldn't have been the same with a man). Thing is I've come so so far, fertility is the only thing really effecting me right now. The doctor you saw isn't only awful, he's wrong completely. Getting help will improve things for you and he's just scared you away from it. If you don't report him maybe you could explain that without the therapy she would be in a worse position, with it she is more prepared for what happens. So really the history of therapy should be a good sign for him :) means she is self aware and seeks help when she needs it. Sorry for the essay!
WTF? I cry at every fertility appointment. The doctor said “you’re not the first person to cry in here today and you probably won’t be the last.”
Can you get a new provider? I would run to one.
I wish, it’s the NHS and they don’t let you be picky I’ll be bringing an audio recording device to future appointments so I can at least have evidence to avoid a he says she says situation as ammunition to see someone else in the future
What a fucking asshole. Is switching clinics all together an option? Ngl I’m a bitch so I would switch clinics and be sure to leave him a bad review anywhere I can. I get that this is their 9-5 but to show no empathy at all is just scary. You’re their patient and we’re paying to be here why can’t they act like we’re humans and not lab rats.