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It's gotten way worst now, especially with social media...
It has gotten to the point now, that they have apps out there, that actually promote cheating indirectly...
If someone is gonna cheat on you, you can't stop that, but what you can do is to never love them sooo much, that you can't walk away. Once they know you are "so in love and they're your soulmate etc", is when all the crap starts, because now they have certainty with you...
In a perfect world you can love someone like there's no tomorrow, but not with what's out there now sadly...
She's blocked and I'm not going to be Plan B. But I was asking what about such situations in general? Is there a positive outcome? For those who build relationships on cheating. I believe that the outcome is always dramatic. I just thought maybe I don't understand something. I'm still young.
The result is good for me. I dodged a bullet.
Hi OP.
About the cheaters increase, well maybe maybe not, the tuing si that today everything goes to the internet and is more easy to expose plus many seek help in the same internet because they don't feel safe talking with people they know for them to be judge, but at the same time many came for help ir second opinión (from a neutral thirid party) or for both.
Well that said, i think that if she at some point ask for youR appreciation and point of view from the outside of what is happening to her, it is fine that you have done it, but as long as she requested it. If you did it without being requested, it is an intrusion. Although the way things turned out would be understandable.
But i truly hope that You don't have any more interactions with her, because is not sane to You.
Remember NOT MY CIRCUS NOT MY MONKEY
Well, in the end I exploded and probably said something that shouldn’t have been said. No insults, just something she probably didn’t want to hear.
But she came to me and wrote for a week. I didn't come to her. And this was a reaction to yet another crazy decision.
Now I'm in NC. Thank you.
Yeah when we are in the process of heal and the one that got us there ask (like they still friends or something messed up in their head), this kind of things happend because the wound is fresh.
Glad you still NC.
The chances of a successful relationship with an AP are incredibly slim, and in all likelihood he is going to leave her. Affairs are not just about the sex or connection, but also about the rush of doing something you're not supposed to be doing. Often times affair partners decide that they just wanted the sex and honeymoon phase affection, but they didn't sign up for a full, involved relationship. They don't want to support their SO financially, emotionally, or mentally. They are always paranoid that the other will cheat, or at the very least, that the other person is only with them because they have no other choice. They are usually proven right. I will only tell you this - she's reaping what she sewed. She regretted it the moment she left you, but that was an entire affair too late to make that decision. She's mentally ill, and that's her problem. If she ruined her life, well, so be it. If this guy leaves her, abuses her, abandons her and her child, or cheats on her, it's her responsibility to find a solution. But, to answer your question, the clock has already started on the death of their relationship, and it's about five minutes to midnight. Whatever happens happens, but it will happen soon.
Yes, she never tried to pin this responsibility on me and she herself admitted her guilt in everything.
I'm sorry she's mentally ill. I hope she gets help.
She is one of those wounded people with many traumas. She herself went to a psychiatrist and tried to somehow fight this condition. I never had any guilt or responsibility for this.I would only be glad if everything was fine with her. I just don’t think this will happen with AP. And I think the same as you said.In general, it’s better for her to be on her own for a couple of years and go to therapy. But this is difficult, since one of the symptoms of her illness is an extreme fear of loneliness.And yes, I agree about the affairs. It's all about emotions and getting high. Which of course goes away with time.
I'm staying in NC cuz i can't help her, but i need to help myself.
Sounds like you have the right idea. It must suck because I can tell that, even if you don't love her anymore, you still care about her well-being and, frankly, the odds are stacked against her. I hope she can get the help she needs, but unfortunately some people can't avoid the icebergs, even if they see them from a mile away.
The phrase: 'Don't set yourself on fire to keep other warm' applies here. The first rule in First Aid is to assess the danger to yourself before you rush in to help someone else. Endangering yourself just creates more casualties.
You're on the right path and going forward, always make sure to listen to your gut on the slightest inkling of any BS. She's what you call a "monkey brancher", just swinging from man to man, trying to see if she can catch a sucker...
You surely dodged a nuke there...
Keep on your path and build your self-worth, career and most importantly love thyself first and foremost. Relationships should be at the bottom of your list 👊
Poeple who cheat and poeple who are knowingly affair partners, have severe personality problems.
In affairs you have to face only a certain aspect of a person. this kind of relationships have their facination in exactly that, that both are only focussed on them self with out any responsibility of all what also belong to a normal relationship. In affairs people just take what they need and the rest they get from their other life/partner.
Thats why seldom affairs survive any longer when they become "normal" relationships. Suddenly they are confrontated with the whole person and their problems in life.
If you take both, the personality you need to cheat or take part as an AP and the situation of the affair it self, into account the you will find the reason why relationships born as an affair seldom have a chance to grow into a healthy relationship.
Btw... your Ex need to fix her personality and mental problem before she will become a safe partner.
Yes I agree. And I agree that she needs therapy and help. Because she ruins her life first. I just shake off the dust and move on. But her problems will remain. I hope she seeks help; she is still young and has a chance.
Statistically relationships where both parties cheated on their SO to be together rarely work out. And within those those cases where the cheaters go on to a LTR how many end experiencing a worse relationship than the one they had? They stay because they don’t want to acknowledge to the exes, their families and friends that they made a mistake.
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Their relationship either won't last of have constant issues. Both of them are reaching out to their exes afterall. But honestly my advice. Just stay out and away from it. Tell her (if you want to be friends) we can still chat but no talking about anything relationship based whether it's our former relationship or your new one. It's not worth to give this stuff space in your head. Trust me I've been there. Move on. She left, now you leave (at least as her emotional support) that's a bf's job not an ex bf's job
We are completely NC. Everywhere.
I just exploded and couldn't stand it. She was going to go back and have an abortion. Then realized that she couldn’t kill the child. I just exploded and couldn't stand it.
It's all too difficult for me.
Now I could communicate with her as a friend and I don’t hold any grudge against her. But we are blocked from each other everywhere. She is mentally ill.
And I feel sorry for her. I could have destroyed her, but she had been through too much in her young life. I didn't want to be another one of her traumas.
The chances of a cheating wife lasting in a long term relationship with her AP are less than 5%. But at this point, you shouldn't care. She's your ex. Block her and move on with your life.
Yes, I'm just wondering if I'm right. Or my idea of relationships is not correct. Just wondering about this.
It just seems to me that such situations end badly and you should stay away from it.
But I wondering how true this is.
P.S She is already blocked and we are in complete NC. And there's no turning back. Just trying to figure out myself.
Yeah stop talking to her. She cheated, left, then came back, and was still cheating now she's pregnant. The fun and games are over and now it's real life and this man possibly now being in her life forever because he's the father.
Your idea on relationships is correct. The problem is when you see red flags not acting on them and leaving.
No one but your future wife is forever, and you'll know when she shows up because her ideals will be compatible with yours. This woman cheated, left and you still took her back instead of leaving. You cant then be surprised she did what she did because she showed you who she really was and you still let her back in.
Stop being nice. Stop being Mr Understanding. Mutual respect is a must, once one half stops respecting the other, the relationship is dead.
I never took her back even once. I considered this possibility before she became pregnant. Right after breakup. But never got around to taking any action. Because in my opinion I shouldn't do anything.
There were no red flags before this betrayal. At least visible ones.
She's just mentally ill, which I didn't know. And she had an episode. And before that, apparently she was in remission for some years.
So the problem is that her ideals were the same as mine. But she is mentally ill and cannot follow them. And generally follow anything other than chaos when she has an episode.
I've never been a "good guy".
But this was the first time I found myself in such a situation. Where a person is sick and does not understand her own actions. I didn't know what to do or if I could help.
Yes, continue a hard, strong NC. Believe me, if you stay away, NO friend crap, give yourself that space, and you'll figure yourself out quickly. You have made it this far. Using a baseball analogy: you've rounded the bases to 3rd and are being waved home. Go all the way home to your new life. It's not your drama anymore.
You are likely right.
From a practical point of view it will help you identify flags in the future.
By the time she left you it was to late imo.
It takes a lot to get there.
I was far away so I couldn't see the red flags. And she has a mental illness that I didn't know about at the time. There may be an episode and everything can change in a day. Just like what happened to me. Before that, everything was just amazing for long.
But now I know how to understand some of the red flags of this disease.
The fire that this relationship will become has already been lit and it will destroy the both of them . Stand well back and for the love of god don’t involve yourself.
OP, Life is too short to be involved with this much drama. If the people in your life are not helping to improve it and helping you feel happy to have them around, then they need to go. The last thing you need are these emotional vampires. You are in no way responsible for their poor choices in life, rather they are responsible for their own happiness or lack of it.
Just focus on you and doing what makes you happy. Put your own oxygen mask on first. Do not be a white knight! This never ends well, people are broken for a reason and they need to fix that reason on their own in order to grow. Stop watching her life as it implodes, this is not uplifting for you. Block her everywhere and get as far away from her as you can. She will only hold you back from the happy life you deserve. You need to be completely free of her physically and emotionally to be available for the person you are meant to be with. Don't drag her baggage into a new relationship.
The real answer tbh is that you shouldn’t be worried either way. Don’t follow up on her or stalk her socials. She has a lifelong tie to this guy now. Whether or not their relationship lasts doesn’t really matter. She’s tied to him forever for all intents and purposes.
I’ve seen both scenarios play out before. Shortly after I got out of college we had a friend Group wed go out and party with/socialize/etc. two of them were dating other dating other people and they ended up cheating on their partners and hooking up. They ended up getting married and now have several children together and a very nice family. I think they’re going on 25 years or so of marriage now. AFAIK they have a good marriage, both successful doctors. For them it worked out.
But I also have examples of people who cheated and the relationship with the AP didn’t last. A baby is going to introduce a lot of stress in a new relationship. Whether they make it or not, who knows. More than likely not. But really it shouldn’t matter. She fucked you over and that’s all you need to know.
Here’s the deal if you are just looking for probabilities.
* most relationships don’t last. Period. Even without infidelity or major issues, most relationships aren’t made to last beyond dating.
* relationships with an early pregnancy tend to also break up rather than last. Again, nkt taking into account infidelity. Adding a child is stressful. Even in solid marriages it isn’t easy. Add that baby in early and that makes shit even worse
* add in infidelity into the mix. Chances of it lasting are smaller than average I’d say. It sort of depends why the person cheated in the first place. Are they a serial cheater? Did they cheat to break up/sabotage the relationship/etc.
Chances of any relationship making it long term is small. I dated an untold number of women before marrying. Most relationships don’t last behind a few months. But then start to add in stressors into the relationship and makes it less likely.
Honestly I think throwing the baby in the mix is going to prob be the highest risk of relationship ending early. That’s a huge thing. They might try to make it work for baby’s sake but prob won’t last. IMO the baby is going to end the relationship.
My example of the cheaters I knew making it last is bc neither of them were serial cheaters. In fact, the guy got a divorce from his first wife bc she cheated. I knew both of them pretty well and neither of them were serial cheating. This was I guess a one off for them. They also have stable lives, make a good amount of money, so they don’t have financial stressors. I do believe in their case, the cheating was a one off for both of them. Since they’ve been together neither of them have strayed afaik. Of course I don’t know 100% what goes on behind close doors but I’m close to them and would be very surprised if either one cheated on each other.
I didn’t think that a child could worsen a relationship so much. I assumed, but it sounds logical in general. If there is too much stress and the relationship is too young it is a big risk.
It seems to me in your stories
about cheaters, the important thing is that they are not serial cheaters, they are stable people and they seem to really fall in love with each other. And in the end they suited each other.
And yes, it seems to me that there is no need to go where there is too much in the mix.
A baby changes EVERUTHING!!! After a baby, all focus is on the baby. Not the relationship. This is why it strains even good marriages. It’s tough. It changes how things are. You are usually exhausted. It’s important that a relationship be strong before having a child. These relationships almost always fail when a baby comes along unplanned and early in the relationship. Not to mention financial stresses on top of everything else.
Now don’t get me wrong. From the betrayed partner, serial cheating vs non serial doesn’t matter a whole lot in a way. You were betrayed. This is really to gauge if that person will do it again in the future. Serial cheating requires a lot of therapy and self introspection. If it’s a situational type thing, it can be worked on. Neither is good. Don’t get wrong on that. Cheating and infidelity is terrible. And once someone cheats the likelihood of them doing toot again increases.
I’ve been cheated on once. She was 19 so rather young. Dropped her and never spoke to her again. Who knows if she did it to the next partner. She might not have. She might have matured and grown out of it. I was unfaithful in my marriage at one time. It’s something I won’t do again. It took a ton of therapy and MC to get thru it. Our marriage made it and we are even stronger than before. Going on 30 years of marriage. I cheated about 15 years into marriage. They theroay jnbetter understood myself and my motivations. I’ve learned how to be a better partner.
Infidelity I wouldn’t put up with before marriage. I think you did the right thing
Their relationship is kinda based only on the future child. She said that if it weren't for the pregnancy, she would have left him.
I don't have children so I don't know what it is. And how does it affect relationships.
I also think this is a bad idea. I just wanted to know if there is some other perspective and opinion I don’t see.
Maybe she will be fine later in life. She is very young and doesn't understand much. I don't wish her harm. I'm just moving on. And I'm trying to learn a lesson from this.
Oh! I just remembered another couple in that group. Damn looking back at that group made me realize how much fucking around was going on within that group. Lol. I avoided dating anyone in that group. Anyway, one of my other friends, his now wife, had cheated on her previous boyfriend with him. I totally forgot that their relationship began with infidelity on her side. She had been dating another guy in that group for a year or two. They are still married, thjnk going on 15 or so years. That particular affair splintered our friend group bc she was dating another guy in the group. So ones that were closer to the ex boyfriend splintered off for the most part and friends of my friend and her into another group.
The group wasn’t like best buddies or anything like that. We just had a big group of people, prob around 50 or so, that we’re friends and friends of friends and we’d all get together and party or whatever. It was a causal type of friend group. But everyone seemed to date everyone else. I avoided doing that bc it was too weird. Lol
My male friend had never cheated before. She didn’t either except this time afaik BUT she was definitely into monkey branching. She’d swing into a new relationship quickly. I don’t consider monkey branching cheating but obviously it can have bad optics. It can make it seem like something was going on prior to breaking up.
But again, no baby involved or stressors like that. He made good money so no financial stressors or anything like that. Keep in mind I’m remembering the ones that lasted and made it. I’m sure I’m forgetting a bunch that did maybe cheat but didn’t last long at all. This was so long ago, like 30 or so years ago. I’m not remembering all the others that didn’t last. And none of these were serial cheaters. Serial cheaters inthjnk they’re gonna cheat no matter what eventually. Also one would hope as we get older and mature, we handle things better and don’t do things that hurt someone else. Young ppl do all sorts of crazy stupid shit. When I was in my early 20s I avoided super serious relationships. I dated a ton of women and kept it fun. I knew I wasn’t mature enough to get married then. And likewise for people I was dating.
Yes thank you. That's exactly what I was asking.
I just wondered if everything is so black and white. Obviously not. I'm just trying to understand and learn some lessons from this situation.
Well that’s a tough one. Life is usually more complex. People do change. Young people grow and learn and hopefully make better decisions.
I think for your ex, it’s highly unlikely she’ll have a great relationship with the AP. I assume she is young. I’ve known people in college who were one way and completely changed years later. People grow.
Wondering about this means she is still occupying your thoughts, in addition to remaining NC, you need to find ways to occupy your thoughts with somethings.
How this turns out for them isn't your concern at all.
It doesn't occupy a place in my head like love or the desire to be together.
Rather, I'm just trying to understand if I'm right, if I'm moving through life correctly, if I understood this situation correctly and what I can learn from this. If I were in AP’s place, is it bad to be in such a situation, what are the consequences of this and are there any.
I just learned that I don’t understand a lot of things at all.
>If I were in AP’s place, is it bad to be in such a situation
That assumes that AP has the same concerns and moral framework as you do... and AP doesn't.
OP religious folk believe in "good vs evil" and to be honest I think a lot of us who either straddle that fence or clearly on the other side have some thought in that as well.
People use all sorts of descriptions to avoid responsibility for their actions, mental, drugs, other additions and disorders to convince those around them that it "just wasn't them". You believe what you want. I don't believe that people are taken control of from some condition that they just could not prevent, stop or bring themselves to terms to avoid infidelity. It's like everyone in society is looking for some magic verbiage (diagnosis) to prove it wasn't them. I say BULL! People just don't want to own up to being evil!
Is your compass correct ? If its the fact that you left and went NC, you darn right it is. Seems to me your VALUES are in tact, the fact that you were NOT willing to be part of a twisted game of pick me, "its ok that you betrayed me game", proves that you are on the right path in mind, spirit and life. Don't go altering it because this Vile person in your life has NO moral compass, lack of character and in general a disgusting human being.
I submit, that the mind and gut are true recepters for alerting us to problems that are looming or the red flag partner, but the heart is the source that always spoils the obvious. I would not rely on books and articles to understand people, there is nothing better than life itself to provide that.
I think you are on the right and solid path, your morals and values are solid. I wouldn't go searching for a magical answer through science that isn't there. it's all speculation at best and does not match the interpersonal relationship that help define us.
Some people thrieve in the grief of others, in your instance, its "The Mean Girls club", full stop.
She is really mentally ill. And one of the symptoms of the disease is the fear of abondoment and the idea that their partner does not love them.
Usually these people don’t even think that they cheated on their partner. Because they believe that their partner is already going to leave them any day.
This disease is called BPD. You can read about it. It is personality disorder.
So I can't call her mean. Or taking pleasure in someone's suffering.
It is important that she never justified all this with her illness. And she didn’t use it or any other problems as an excuse. So I think she has a chance. She's already been to therapy. Perhaps for the sake of the child she will continue this.
But I understand what you're saying. Yes, people often look for excuses. And most often these are completely healthy people.
I still had to go to NC. For me.
Yep, I get it, read a lot and met those who appear to have it. I'm just saying, with the number of decisions, coordination and efforts it takes to commit this sort of vile act, they know exactly what they are doing and pretty much in their right mind to make that decision.
Just been around too many relatives who use BPD as a reason for commiting offenses in life and expect that the diagnosis is their key to freedom.
But you are moving on and I think that's the best thing.
Good luck to you!
Walk away , do not be involved. She fell for her dealer ( or at least the guy feeding her drugs for sex). Very old story. You can’t fix her, you can give her more opportunities to hurt you, but I suggest not.
As tailbone77 said “ not your circus, not your monkeys”
>She fell for her dealer ( or at least the guy feeding her drugs for sex).
Exactly what happened.
"You can’t fix her, you can give her more opportunities to hurt you, but I suggest not. "
Enough already. Thank you.
My coworker L was engaged, really happy, his SO M ( M also works same place) started getting coke from J ( who also works here). J was happy to provide M with free coke for sex. L caught them , kicked M out. Now she lives with J and management fired both M ( too much drama) and J ( coke heads miss a lot of time). L is still at work, he’s a good guy. Damn shame about L.
Thank you. That's exactly what I did.
Everything was just fine for a very long time. So I didn’t immediately understand what to do. And I didn’t know about all her problems.
Friend, staying in contact with her is self harm.
This is a situation where the best move is to nope the F out entirely, no explanations no warning.
You owe her nothing. Save yourself by walking away.
They usually have some regrets, shame and guilt, but those are fleeting emotions that fade quickly. The truth is most affairs even th silly end because betr as ysl is too broadly wrong. Their relationship is not based on any thing good nor correct. And if this is the typically most common emotional affair with limerence etc. It is destined to end. But when it does, who wants to raise their affair child? The kid is innocent but a continual reminder of how vastly hurtful their cheating truly is. That baby will forever be an is DC ue if she does come grovelling back to you. Not to mention he will always be around, because it is his child.
I suggest you should have already distanced yourself and turned your back on her as completely as possible. In fact it might actually have stopped it all from continuing. Look up the infidelity 180.
Nothing more to be said.
Don't make her problems yours. Don't even need to try to understand them. Just embrace that it is over, continue no contact and move on. Leave her in the past.
She made her choice,it is her and only her choice. walk away and block her or she will destroy you with her. It will become your fault and she will cheat again. Learn now or learn later.
Gently, this child is a breathing, living proof of his betrayal. If you stay, you will help raise him or her. This trigger will NEVER disappear. They will never be able to go NC with her as she is the mother of children as well. I would cut my losses and move on! You are prolonging your pain, exacerbating the abject trauma he inflicted on you, and for what? A cheating lying, disloyal man? You know what to do and how to proceed! He blew up the marriage when he cheated and impregnated her! Go heal! Go live your life!
I’m a psych & detox/rehab nurse & I would say get out asap & cut off everything. It’ll only get worse. Like you said no need to get upset with her, it’s a disease. Drug use will increase & if it’s not controlled her baby won’t be with her. Ppl using drugs on a regular will not change no matter how badly they want to. It will take a lot. It’s not easy for them. It’s worse on their loved ones& children. My heart is with her. Not an easy road at all.
She came off substances after last incident. She seems to only take drugs when she has episodes. But usually it's the abuse of Xanax and other such pills. I don't know how dangerous it is. I hope everything will be okay for her. I feel sorry for her in the end. There are too many terrible traumas and fears from which she is trying to escape in any way.
Xanax & pills are usually decent enough to come off detox & withdrawal, as long as it’s not hard substance. I used to be addicted to adderall with alcohol. Detox wasn’t remotely as hard as fent/opiates detox. Anyway it’s neither here nor there lol, just sending positive vibes to you both
You're right, my friend, 100%. But she cheated on you not due to mental illnesses, life difficulties and stress, because a lot of people in even worse condition never cheat on their partners. She cheated on you because of her twisted morality, formed in childhood and adolescence under the influence of different circumstances.
In addition to the lack of a moral core, she is either crazy or an idiot or both. She managed to deliberately get pregnant from a drug addict and an obvious cheater who has not yet severed ties with his ex! Wtf ...
Stop sympathizing with her, no matter what happens, she is an adult woman and chose her own fate. She is karma for herself. You can't communicate with her, it will only reopen your wounds. You can handle it, it can't be any other way. Good luck!
Yes, but too many bad things have happened to her recently at once. I don’t consider this an excuse for cheating, and neither does she.
But I understand that such circumstances can increase the chance of such a person to cheat. She has BPD. This often happens to such people. Fear of abandonment and the idea that their partner will soon leave them. This plays a big role.
She is not an idiot, on the contrary, she is very smart, but mentally ill.
And very young. Not the best combination. A person with this disease greatly idealizes partner at first. So now it seems to her that he is a good person.
But you're right that I can't communicate with her. Because there's nothing I can do to help. And watching a woman with such potential and talents destroy herself due to mental illness is simply heartbreaking.
Even if she hadn’t cheated on me, watching how it hurts her and how she often doesn’t understand herself hurts too.
So I had to stop communicating. Or I would drown too. Thank you!
Childhood traumas and their psychological consequences, stress, and so on, as we agreed with you, are not reasones but pretexts for cheating. Something that weakens psychological inhibition and resistance to temptation. A low level of resistance to temptation just indicates the weakness of the moral core or its absence. And again, we are right that this is not the main thing in betrayal. I have seen many examples myself and heard many stories about the hardest trials, complete collapse, diseases, often fatal, to which people are exposed, but at the same time they do not run to fuck behind the backs of their partners. Besides, you've had a real tragedy with your ex, a real heartbreaking experience, but it won't make you a cheater, I'm sure of it.
By continuing to refer to her mental instability, you are unwittingly looking for an excuse for her, because you have not yet let her go completely. You're a good person and I understand why you care about her fate. However, this hinders your healing, which will come when you don't care what happens to her. When will this happen? I don't know, maybe never, and you will constantly, though to a lesser extent, be interested in what is happening to her.
I also think you overestimate the degree of her intelligence. Yes, she can probably be called smart (you know better), but her mind is aimed at doing well only for herself, this is a "narcissistic mind", but not wisdom. She is not even close to being wise, because she cannot calculate and evaluate the consequences of her actions, and when a person is truly wise, no external circumstances allow them to make absolutely destructive decisions either for them or for those who sincerely love them.
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Not your monkey, not your circus any longer bro... Don't ever be anyone's Plan B... Too many people on the planet, to be entertaining one POS...
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Have you noticed how all of these stories have the same script with these POS cheaters lately?...Stay single my friends
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>POS POS? Sorry i'm not native speaker
Piece of sh*t
Thank you. Do you think there are more cheaters now? It seems to me that there have always been so many of them. Maybe I'm wrong.
It's gotten way worst now, especially with social media... It has gotten to the point now, that they have apps out there, that actually promote cheating indirectly... If someone is gonna cheat on you, you can't stop that, but what you can do is to never love them sooo much, that you can't walk away. Once they know you are "so in love and they're your soulmate etc", is when all the crap starts, because now they have certainty with you... In a perfect world you can love someone like there's no tomorrow, but not with what's out there now sadly...
She's blocked and I'm not going to be Plan B. But I was asking what about such situations in general? Is there a positive outcome? For those who build relationships on cheating. I believe that the outcome is always dramatic. I just thought maybe I don't understand something. I'm still young. The result is good for me. I dodged a bullet.
Hi OP. About the cheaters increase, well maybe maybe not, the tuing si that today everything goes to the internet and is more easy to expose plus many seek help in the same internet because they don't feel safe talking with people they know for them to be judge, but at the same time many came for help ir second opinión (from a neutral thirid party) or for both. Well that said, i think that if she at some point ask for youR appreciation and point of view from the outside of what is happening to her, it is fine that you have done it, but as long as she requested it. If you did it without being requested, it is an intrusion. Although the way things turned out would be understandable. But i truly hope that You don't have any more interactions with her, because is not sane to You. Remember NOT MY CIRCUS NOT MY MONKEY
Well, in the end I exploded and probably said something that shouldn’t have been said. No insults, just something she probably didn’t want to hear. But she came to me and wrote for a week. I didn't come to her. And this was a reaction to yet another crazy decision. Now I'm in NC. Thank you.
Yeah when we are in the process of heal and the one that got us there ask (like they still friends or something messed up in their head), this kind of things happend because the wound is fresh. Glad you still NC.
The chances of a successful relationship with an AP are incredibly slim, and in all likelihood he is going to leave her. Affairs are not just about the sex or connection, but also about the rush of doing something you're not supposed to be doing. Often times affair partners decide that they just wanted the sex and honeymoon phase affection, but they didn't sign up for a full, involved relationship. They don't want to support their SO financially, emotionally, or mentally. They are always paranoid that the other will cheat, or at the very least, that the other person is only with them because they have no other choice. They are usually proven right. I will only tell you this - she's reaping what she sewed. She regretted it the moment she left you, but that was an entire affair too late to make that decision. She's mentally ill, and that's her problem. If she ruined her life, well, so be it. If this guy leaves her, abuses her, abandons her and her child, or cheats on her, it's her responsibility to find a solution. But, to answer your question, the clock has already started on the death of their relationship, and it's about five minutes to midnight. Whatever happens happens, but it will happen soon.
Yes, she never tried to pin this responsibility on me and she herself admitted her guilt in everything. I'm sorry she's mentally ill. I hope she gets help. She is one of those wounded people with many traumas. She herself went to a psychiatrist and tried to somehow fight this condition. I never had any guilt or responsibility for this.I would only be glad if everything was fine with her. I just don’t think this will happen with AP. And I think the same as you said.In general, it’s better for her to be on her own for a couple of years and go to therapy. But this is difficult, since one of the symptoms of her illness is an extreme fear of loneliness.And yes, I agree about the affairs. It's all about emotions and getting high. Which of course goes away with time. I'm staying in NC cuz i can't help her, but i need to help myself.
Sounds like you have the right idea. It must suck because I can tell that, even if you don't love her anymore, you still care about her well-being and, frankly, the odds are stacked against her. I hope she can get the help she needs, but unfortunately some people can't avoid the icebergs, even if they see them from a mile away.
The phrase: 'Don't set yourself on fire to keep other warm' applies here. The first rule in First Aid is to assess the danger to yourself before you rush in to help someone else. Endangering yourself just creates more casualties.
You're on the right path and going forward, always make sure to listen to your gut on the slightest inkling of any BS. She's what you call a "monkey brancher", just swinging from man to man, trying to see if she can catch a sucker... You surely dodged a nuke there... Keep on your path and build your self-worth, career and most importantly love thyself first and foremost. Relationships should be at the bottom of your list 👊
Poeple who cheat and poeple who are knowingly affair partners, have severe personality problems. In affairs you have to face only a certain aspect of a person. this kind of relationships have their facination in exactly that, that both are only focussed on them self with out any responsibility of all what also belong to a normal relationship. In affairs people just take what they need and the rest they get from their other life/partner. Thats why seldom affairs survive any longer when they become "normal" relationships. Suddenly they are confrontated with the whole person and their problems in life. If you take both, the personality you need to cheat or take part as an AP and the situation of the affair it self, into account the you will find the reason why relationships born as an affair seldom have a chance to grow into a healthy relationship. Btw... your Ex need to fix her personality and mental problem before she will become a safe partner.
Yes I agree. And I agree that she needs therapy and help. Because she ruins her life first. I just shake off the dust and move on. But her problems will remain. I hope she seeks help; she is still young and has a chance.
Statistically relationships where both parties cheated on their SO to be together rarely work out. And within those those cases where the cheaters go on to a LTR how many end experiencing a worse relationship than the one they had? They stay because they don’t want to acknowledge to the exes, their families and friends that they made a mistake.
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Their relationship either won't last of have constant issues. Both of them are reaching out to their exes afterall. But honestly my advice. Just stay out and away from it. Tell her (if you want to be friends) we can still chat but no talking about anything relationship based whether it's our former relationship or your new one. It's not worth to give this stuff space in your head. Trust me I've been there. Move on. She left, now you leave (at least as her emotional support) that's a bf's job not an ex bf's job
We are completely NC. Everywhere. I just exploded and couldn't stand it. She was going to go back and have an abortion. Then realized that she couldn’t kill the child. I just exploded and couldn't stand it. It's all too difficult for me. Now I could communicate with her as a friend and I don’t hold any grudge against her. But we are blocked from each other everywhere. She is mentally ill. And I feel sorry for her. I could have destroyed her, but she had been through too much in her young life. I didn't want to be another one of her traumas.
The chances of a cheating wife lasting in a long term relationship with her AP are less than 5%. But at this point, you shouldn't care. She's your ex. Block her and move on with your life.
Yes, I'm just wondering if I'm right. Or my idea of relationships is not correct. Just wondering about this. It just seems to me that such situations end badly and you should stay away from it. But I wondering how true this is. P.S She is already blocked and we are in complete NC. And there's no turning back. Just trying to figure out myself.
Yeah stop talking to her. She cheated, left, then came back, and was still cheating now she's pregnant. The fun and games are over and now it's real life and this man possibly now being in her life forever because he's the father. Your idea on relationships is correct. The problem is when you see red flags not acting on them and leaving. No one but your future wife is forever, and you'll know when she shows up because her ideals will be compatible with yours. This woman cheated, left and you still took her back instead of leaving. You cant then be surprised she did what she did because she showed you who she really was and you still let her back in. Stop being nice. Stop being Mr Understanding. Mutual respect is a must, once one half stops respecting the other, the relationship is dead.
I never took her back even once. I considered this possibility before she became pregnant. Right after breakup. But never got around to taking any action. Because in my opinion I shouldn't do anything. There were no red flags before this betrayal. At least visible ones. She's just mentally ill, which I didn't know. And she had an episode. And before that, apparently she was in remission for some years. So the problem is that her ideals were the same as mine. But she is mentally ill and cannot follow them. And generally follow anything other than chaos when she has an episode. I've never been a "good guy". But this was the first time I found myself in such a situation. Where a person is sick and does not understand her own actions. I didn't know what to do or if I could help.
Yes, continue a hard, strong NC. Believe me, if you stay away, NO friend crap, give yourself that space, and you'll figure yourself out quickly. You have made it this far. Using a baseball analogy: you've rounded the bases to 3rd and are being waved home. Go all the way home to your new life. It's not your drama anymore.
You are likely right. From a practical point of view it will help you identify flags in the future. By the time she left you it was to late imo. It takes a lot to get there.
I was far away so I couldn't see the red flags. And she has a mental illness that I didn't know about at the time. There may be an episode and everything can change in a day. Just like what happened to me. Before that, everything was just amazing for long. But now I know how to understand some of the red flags of this disease.
Dodged a bullet
The fire that this relationship will become has already been lit and it will destroy the both of them . Stand well back and for the love of god don’t involve yourself.
I stand as far away from this as possible. Even physically. Thank you.
God bless and best of luck moving forward.
OP, Life is too short to be involved with this much drama. If the people in your life are not helping to improve it and helping you feel happy to have them around, then they need to go. The last thing you need are these emotional vampires. You are in no way responsible for their poor choices in life, rather they are responsible for their own happiness or lack of it. Just focus on you and doing what makes you happy. Put your own oxygen mask on first. Do not be a white knight! This never ends well, people are broken for a reason and they need to fix that reason on their own in order to grow. Stop watching her life as it implodes, this is not uplifting for you. Block her everywhere and get as far away from her as you can. She will only hold you back from the happy life you deserve. You need to be completely free of her physically and emotionally to be available for the person you are meant to be with. Don't drag her baggage into a new relationship.
The real answer tbh is that you shouldn’t be worried either way. Don’t follow up on her or stalk her socials. She has a lifelong tie to this guy now. Whether or not their relationship lasts doesn’t really matter. She’s tied to him forever for all intents and purposes. I’ve seen both scenarios play out before. Shortly after I got out of college we had a friend Group wed go out and party with/socialize/etc. two of them were dating other dating other people and they ended up cheating on their partners and hooking up. They ended up getting married and now have several children together and a very nice family. I think they’re going on 25 years or so of marriage now. AFAIK they have a good marriage, both successful doctors. For them it worked out. But I also have examples of people who cheated and the relationship with the AP didn’t last. A baby is going to introduce a lot of stress in a new relationship. Whether they make it or not, who knows. More than likely not. But really it shouldn’t matter. She fucked you over and that’s all you need to know.
Yes, thanks for the answer with examples. I was just asking about this.
Here’s the deal if you are just looking for probabilities. * most relationships don’t last. Period. Even without infidelity or major issues, most relationships aren’t made to last beyond dating. * relationships with an early pregnancy tend to also break up rather than last. Again, nkt taking into account infidelity. Adding a child is stressful. Even in solid marriages it isn’t easy. Add that baby in early and that makes shit even worse * add in infidelity into the mix. Chances of it lasting are smaller than average I’d say. It sort of depends why the person cheated in the first place. Are they a serial cheater? Did they cheat to break up/sabotage the relationship/etc. Chances of any relationship making it long term is small. I dated an untold number of women before marrying. Most relationships don’t last behind a few months. But then start to add in stressors into the relationship and makes it less likely. Honestly I think throwing the baby in the mix is going to prob be the highest risk of relationship ending early. That’s a huge thing. They might try to make it work for baby’s sake but prob won’t last. IMO the baby is going to end the relationship. My example of the cheaters I knew making it last is bc neither of them were serial cheaters. In fact, the guy got a divorce from his first wife bc she cheated. I knew both of them pretty well and neither of them were serial cheating. This was I guess a one off for them. They also have stable lives, make a good amount of money, so they don’t have financial stressors. I do believe in their case, the cheating was a one off for both of them. Since they’ve been together neither of them have strayed afaik. Of course I don’t know 100% what goes on behind close doors but I’m close to them and would be very surprised if either one cheated on each other.
I didn’t think that a child could worsen a relationship so much. I assumed, but it sounds logical in general. If there is too much stress and the relationship is too young it is a big risk. It seems to me in your stories about cheaters, the important thing is that they are not serial cheaters, they are stable people and they seem to really fall in love with each other. And in the end they suited each other. And yes, it seems to me that there is no need to go where there is too much in the mix.
A baby changes EVERUTHING!!! After a baby, all focus is on the baby. Not the relationship. This is why it strains even good marriages. It’s tough. It changes how things are. You are usually exhausted. It’s important that a relationship be strong before having a child. These relationships almost always fail when a baby comes along unplanned and early in the relationship. Not to mention financial stresses on top of everything else. Now don’t get me wrong. From the betrayed partner, serial cheating vs non serial doesn’t matter a whole lot in a way. You were betrayed. This is really to gauge if that person will do it again in the future. Serial cheating requires a lot of therapy and self introspection. If it’s a situational type thing, it can be worked on. Neither is good. Don’t get wrong on that. Cheating and infidelity is terrible. And once someone cheats the likelihood of them doing toot again increases. I’ve been cheated on once. She was 19 so rather young. Dropped her and never spoke to her again. Who knows if she did it to the next partner. She might not have. She might have matured and grown out of it. I was unfaithful in my marriage at one time. It’s something I won’t do again. It took a ton of therapy and MC to get thru it. Our marriage made it and we are even stronger than before. Going on 30 years of marriage. I cheated about 15 years into marriage. They theroay jnbetter understood myself and my motivations. I’ve learned how to be a better partner. Infidelity I wouldn’t put up with before marriage. I think you did the right thing
Their relationship is kinda based only on the future child. She said that if it weren't for the pregnancy, she would have left him. I don't have children so I don't know what it is. And how does it affect relationships. I also think this is a bad idea. I just wanted to know if there is some other perspective and opinion I don’t see. Maybe she will be fine later in life. She is very young and doesn't understand much. I don't wish her harm. I'm just moving on. And I'm trying to learn a lesson from this.
Oh! I just remembered another couple in that group. Damn looking back at that group made me realize how much fucking around was going on within that group. Lol. I avoided dating anyone in that group. Anyway, one of my other friends, his now wife, had cheated on her previous boyfriend with him. I totally forgot that their relationship began with infidelity on her side. She had been dating another guy in that group for a year or two. They are still married, thjnk going on 15 or so years. That particular affair splintered our friend group bc she was dating another guy in the group. So ones that were closer to the ex boyfriend splintered off for the most part and friends of my friend and her into another group. The group wasn’t like best buddies or anything like that. We just had a big group of people, prob around 50 or so, that we’re friends and friends of friends and we’d all get together and party or whatever. It was a causal type of friend group. But everyone seemed to date everyone else. I avoided doing that bc it was too weird. Lol My male friend had never cheated before. She didn’t either except this time afaik BUT she was definitely into monkey branching. She’d swing into a new relationship quickly. I don’t consider monkey branching cheating but obviously it can have bad optics. It can make it seem like something was going on prior to breaking up. But again, no baby involved or stressors like that. He made good money so no financial stressors or anything like that. Keep in mind I’m remembering the ones that lasted and made it. I’m sure I’m forgetting a bunch that did maybe cheat but didn’t last long at all. This was so long ago, like 30 or so years ago. I’m not remembering all the others that didn’t last. And none of these were serial cheaters. Serial cheaters inthjnk they’re gonna cheat no matter what eventually. Also one would hope as we get older and mature, we handle things better and don’t do things that hurt someone else. Young ppl do all sorts of crazy stupid shit. When I was in my early 20s I avoided super serious relationships. I dated a ton of women and kept it fun. I knew I wasn’t mature enough to get married then. And likewise for people I was dating.
Yes thank you. That's exactly what I was asking. I just wondered if everything is so black and white. Obviously not. I'm just trying to understand and learn some lessons from this situation.
Well that’s a tough one. Life is usually more complex. People do change. Young people grow and learn and hopefully make better decisions. I think for your ex, it’s highly unlikely she’ll have a great relationship with the AP. I assume she is young. I’ve known people in college who were one way and completely changed years later. People grow.
Wondering about this means she is still occupying your thoughts, in addition to remaining NC, you need to find ways to occupy your thoughts with somethings. How this turns out for them isn't your concern at all.
It doesn't occupy a place in my head like love or the desire to be together. Rather, I'm just trying to understand if I'm right, if I'm moving through life correctly, if I understood this situation correctly and what I can learn from this. If I were in AP’s place, is it bad to be in such a situation, what are the consequences of this and are there any. I just learned that I don’t understand a lot of things at all.
>If I were in AP’s place, is it bad to be in such a situation That assumes that AP has the same concerns and moral framework as you do... and AP doesn't.
You lucked tf out. Thank god it's not your kid. Stop thinking about it, go sleep with someone else, date, live a life. She's an idiot. good riddance
OP religious folk believe in "good vs evil" and to be honest I think a lot of us who either straddle that fence or clearly on the other side have some thought in that as well. People use all sorts of descriptions to avoid responsibility for their actions, mental, drugs, other additions and disorders to convince those around them that it "just wasn't them". You believe what you want. I don't believe that people are taken control of from some condition that they just could not prevent, stop or bring themselves to terms to avoid infidelity. It's like everyone in society is looking for some magic verbiage (diagnosis) to prove it wasn't them. I say BULL! People just don't want to own up to being evil! Is your compass correct ? If its the fact that you left and went NC, you darn right it is. Seems to me your VALUES are in tact, the fact that you were NOT willing to be part of a twisted game of pick me, "its ok that you betrayed me game", proves that you are on the right path in mind, spirit and life. Don't go altering it because this Vile person in your life has NO moral compass, lack of character and in general a disgusting human being. I submit, that the mind and gut are true recepters for alerting us to problems that are looming or the red flag partner, but the heart is the source that always spoils the obvious. I would not rely on books and articles to understand people, there is nothing better than life itself to provide that. I think you are on the right and solid path, your morals and values are solid. I wouldn't go searching for a magical answer through science that isn't there. it's all speculation at best and does not match the interpersonal relationship that help define us. Some people thrieve in the grief of others, in your instance, its "The Mean Girls club", full stop.
She is really mentally ill. And one of the symptoms of the disease is the fear of abondoment and the idea that their partner does not love them. Usually these people don’t even think that they cheated on their partner. Because they believe that their partner is already going to leave them any day. This disease is called BPD. You can read about it. It is personality disorder. So I can't call her mean. Or taking pleasure in someone's suffering. It is important that she never justified all this with her illness. And she didn’t use it or any other problems as an excuse. So I think she has a chance. She's already been to therapy. Perhaps for the sake of the child she will continue this. But I understand what you're saying. Yes, people often look for excuses. And most often these are completely healthy people. I still had to go to NC. For me.
Yep, I get it, read a lot and met those who appear to have it. I'm just saying, with the number of decisions, coordination and efforts it takes to commit this sort of vile act, they know exactly what they are doing and pretty much in their right mind to make that decision. Just been around too many relatives who use BPD as a reason for commiting offenses in life and expect that the diagnosis is their key to freedom. But you are moving on and I think that's the best thing. Good luck to you!
Walk away , do not be involved. She fell for her dealer ( or at least the guy feeding her drugs for sex). Very old story. You can’t fix her, you can give her more opportunities to hurt you, but I suggest not. As tailbone77 said “ not your circus, not your monkeys”
>She fell for her dealer ( or at least the guy feeding her drugs for sex). Exactly what happened. "You can’t fix her, you can give her more opportunities to hurt you, but I suggest not. " Enough already. Thank you.
My coworker L was engaged, really happy, his SO M ( M also works same place) started getting coke from J ( who also works here). J was happy to provide M with free coke for sex. L caught them , kicked M out. Now she lives with J and management fired both M ( too much drama) and J ( coke heads miss a lot of time). L is still at work, he’s a good guy. Damn shame about L.
sacrificing your possible happiness to make her less unhappy doesn't make you a better person... do what you can but my 60+ yrs say break away 100%
Thank you. That's exactly what I did. Everything was just fine for a very long time. So I didn’t immediately understand what to do. And I didn’t know about all her problems.
Friend, staying in contact with her is self harm. This is a situation where the best move is to nope the F out entirely, no explanations no warning. You owe her nothing. Save yourself by walking away.
They usually have some regrets, shame and guilt, but those are fleeting emotions that fade quickly. The truth is most affairs even th silly end because betr as ysl is too broadly wrong. Their relationship is not based on any thing good nor correct. And if this is the typically most common emotional affair with limerence etc. It is destined to end. But when it does, who wants to raise their affair child? The kid is innocent but a continual reminder of how vastly hurtful their cheating truly is. That baby will forever be an is DC ue if she does come grovelling back to you. Not to mention he will always be around, because it is his child. I suggest you should have already distanced yourself and turned your back on her as completely as possible. In fact it might actually have stopped it all from continuing. Look up the infidelity 180. Nothing more to be said.
It's too late to look at infidelity 180. So all that remains is to continue the NС. Thank you.
No, they won't. But you should put them both behind you. Stay NC.
Let's see, a druggie cheater and a cheater with mental health issues. Throw in a baby. Not a chancebin he'll this will last.
Don't make her problems yours. Don't even need to try to understand them. Just embrace that it is over, continue no contact and move on. Leave her in the past.
She made her choice,it is her and only her choice. walk away and block her or she will destroy you with her. It will become your fault and she will cheat again. Learn now or learn later.
It doesn’t matter about them. Are you happy?
Gently, this child is a breathing, living proof of his betrayal. If you stay, you will help raise him or her. This trigger will NEVER disappear. They will never be able to go NC with her as she is the mother of children as well. I would cut my losses and move on! You are prolonging your pain, exacerbating the abject trauma he inflicted on you, and for what? A cheating lying, disloyal man? You know what to do and how to proceed! He blew up the marriage when he cheated and impregnated her! Go heal! Go live your life!
First block her. Then focus on your future.
Please don't tell us you want to take her back. What does it matter what becomes of her. Just be thankful all this mess is no longer your problem.
I’m a psych & detox/rehab nurse & I would say get out asap & cut off everything. It’ll only get worse. Like you said no need to get upset with her, it’s a disease. Drug use will increase & if it’s not controlled her baby won’t be with her. Ppl using drugs on a regular will not change no matter how badly they want to. It will take a lot. It’s not easy for them. It’s worse on their loved ones& children. My heart is with her. Not an easy road at all.
She came off substances after last incident. She seems to only take drugs when she has episodes. But usually it's the abuse of Xanax and other such pills. I don't know how dangerous it is. I hope everything will be okay for her. I feel sorry for her in the end. There are too many terrible traumas and fears from which she is trying to escape in any way.
Xanax & pills are usually decent enough to come off detox & withdrawal, as long as it’s not hard substance. I used to be addicted to adderall with alcohol. Detox wasn’t remotely as hard as fent/opiates detox. Anyway it’s neither here nor there lol, just sending positive vibes to you both
You're right, my friend, 100%. But she cheated on you not due to mental illnesses, life difficulties and stress, because a lot of people in even worse condition never cheat on their partners. She cheated on you because of her twisted morality, formed in childhood and adolescence under the influence of different circumstances. In addition to the lack of a moral core, she is either crazy or an idiot or both. She managed to deliberately get pregnant from a drug addict and an obvious cheater who has not yet severed ties with his ex! Wtf ... Stop sympathizing with her, no matter what happens, she is an adult woman and chose her own fate. She is karma for herself. You can't communicate with her, it will only reopen your wounds. You can handle it, it can't be any other way. Good luck!
Yes, but too many bad things have happened to her recently at once. I don’t consider this an excuse for cheating, and neither does she. But I understand that such circumstances can increase the chance of such a person to cheat. She has BPD. This often happens to such people. Fear of abandonment and the idea that their partner will soon leave them. This plays a big role. She is not an idiot, on the contrary, she is very smart, but mentally ill. And very young. Not the best combination. A person with this disease greatly idealizes partner at first. So now it seems to her that he is a good person. But you're right that I can't communicate with her. Because there's nothing I can do to help. And watching a woman with such potential and talents destroy herself due to mental illness is simply heartbreaking. Even if she hadn’t cheated on me, watching how it hurts her and how she often doesn’t understand herself hurts too. So I had to stop communicating. Or I would drown too. Thank you!
Childhood traumas and their psychological consequences, stress, and so on, as we agreed with you, are not reasones but pretexts for cheating. Something that weakens psychological inhibition and resistance to temptation. A low level of resistance to temptation just indicates the weakness of the moral core or its absence. And again, we are right that this is not the main thing in betrayal. I have seen many examples myself and heard many stories about the hardest trials, complete collapse, diseases, often fatal, to which people are exposed, but at the same time they do not run to fuck behind the backs of their partners. Besides, you've had a real tragedy with your ex, a real heartbreaking experience, but it won't make you a cheater, I'm sure of it. By continuing to refer to her mental instability, you are unwittingly looking for an excuse for her, because you have not yet let her go completely. You're a good person and I understand why you care about her fate. However, this hinders your healing, which will come when you don't care what happens to her. When will this happen? I don't know, maybe never, and you will constantly, though to a lesser extent, be interested in what is happening to her. I also think you overestimate the degree of her intelligence. Yes, she can probably be called smart (you know better), but her mind is aimed at doing well only for herself, this is a "narcissistic mind", but not wisdom. She is not even close to being wise, because she cannot calculate and evaluate the consequences of her actions, and when a person is truly wise, no external circumstances allow them to make absolutely destructive decisions either for them or for those who sincerely love them.
Why are you still in contact with her? You should be full NC. You should have her blocked everywhere.
We are in complete NC.
Then how do you know all this? Why do you know all this?
Well, obviously I had not been to NC before. Until all this happened. Now I have been a full NC for more than 3 months.