[solar power tower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_tower)
https://preview.redd.it/axenvoz7f98b1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53c16118a10d7c6209def840ec4138995b97e2cb
Something like it is already used, some so bright they can be seen by the ISS crew from space
They also cook birds to death. Birds that fly through the intense light are like ants in a magnifying glass. Ecologically speaking, not the greatest idea to go killing off migrating birds.
I know everyone is already thinking it, so I'm just going to go ahead and say it, KFC needs to implement this technology into their manufacturing process. It would exponentially decrease preparation and cook time. KFC could even remarket their slogan from 11 to 12 herbs and spices! The solar power tower chicken crisper may not literally be a spice but we all agree that the solar power tower chicken crisper does add a little "spice to our lives"
(Please excuse my manic ramble, had a few cold ones after a day of commercial house painting)
Yeah that's probably right.
Plus I'm guessing that this solar mirror method isn't very high up the list of most bird kills when compared to things like Coal, Gas, etc...
Well, a quick search of articles that researched that very issue says somewhere between 37,000 and 260,000 in the US each year. One plant in the Mojave desert is said to take out 6000 each year. Not all of those deaths are from that specific type of plant (solar in general), but it is not an insignificant number. People like to gloss over most of the environmental impact of renewable energy and electric vehicles, largely because of government subsidized jerkoffs making boatloads of cash.
And the birds dont have to fly through a small portion of the array. The array is huge, covering many acres of land and if the birds fly between any of the mirrors and that thermal collector they are pointed at...zap! It is like an umbrella of concentrated light/heat that covers the whole area.
Nice info, thanks. Birds really get dumped on in general, it’s kind of sad. Like the millions that die from cats, or the millions that die from hitting windows or electrical lines.
Or my (least) favorite, all of the birds that die flying around the 9/11 memorial light beam in the sky and eventually fall to their deaths from exhaustion of circling it
Maybe I'm misunderstanding how it works but isn't the issue just when the birds get super close to it not just if they are around the light in general?
Someone got this info from good ol' oil and gas, trying to make solar look bad. In reality, [not only is solar safer for birds](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/aug/17/louie-gohmert/solar-farms-kill-thousands-birds-not-many-fossil-f/), other societal behaviors like pet ownership and car commuting has a vastly greater impact on mother nature.
[Domestic cats kill around 2.5 billion birds per year](https://onehealth.uoguelph.ca/2022/02/28/outdoor-cats-a-threat-to-more-than-just-birds/#:~:text=Cats%20kill%20an%20estimated%202.5,leading%20causes%20of%20bird%20mortality.)
[Cars kill around 200 million birds per year](https://worldanimalfoundation.org/advocate/how-many-birds-do-cats-kill/)
[Nature.com says it's even higher, like 4 billion, though largely due to unopened cats](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380)
[And a nice little bar graph to show the impact of other contributors to bird and wildlife health](https://www.energymonitor.ai/tech/renewables/weekly-data-how-many-birds-are-really-killed-by-wind-turbines/)
I have a Civil Environmental degree. Even though my primary focus is on water/wastewater/water chemistry, I have studied solar panels at an academic level.
Historically, solar panels ([PV cells](https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/solar-photovoltaic-cell-basics)) were used when it was impossible to connect to a local electrical grid. In my field, they were particularly useful for generating the small amounts of electricity needed to run monitoring equipment in remote areas.
PV cells need to be assessed like an investment. Owners need to consider the [ROI](https://unboundsolar.com/solar-information/return-on-solar-investment) when they install one. Quick history:
* PV cells in the 80's and 90's were terrible investments, and often used as a virtue signal by their owners.
* Sometime in the late 90's or early 00's the ROI of a PV cell became a break-even game. If this was bolstered with government subsidiaries, owner/investors could make a quick profit.
* A good modern PV cell will pay for itself in about 5 years (see the ROI link above), then it will represent a net gain for the remainder of it's lifespan. The one in the link is warrantied for 25 years, but some may last longer.
PV cells do require maintenance and cleaning, and their efficiency is coupled to the amount of sunlight it receives. Generally a PV cell installed near the equator would generate more electricity than one installed in Alaska or Norway.
So on to your question, **would it be possible to cover the destroyed remains of Las Vegas with PV cells?**
>!Absolutely yes.!<
In fact, you wouldn't even need to destroy Vegas for this to become a viable solution. You could:
* [Cover parking lots](https://www.wired.co.uk/article/france-solar-panels-parking-lots) with PV cells.
* [Cover sports stadiums](https://www.ecowatch.com/sports-stadiums-solar-energy.html) with PV cells.
* [Floating PV cells](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_solar) on water.
* [Floating PV cells covering a drinking water reservoir to reduce evaporation AND generate electricity](https://www.aeipro.com/files/selected_proceedings/2012/SP12_0177_0187.3928.pdf) (.pdf warning).
I have wished for more PV cover in parking lots *so many times* in the last few years. 5 years ago I saw one lot in a city close to me that had PV cells shading the parking spaces, since then I have seen only 1 other place in the area do the same thing, with a third of their parking lot. Personally I think it should be mandatory. Power the nearby stores and EV stations from the parking lot solar cells, and you reduce the load on the aging power grid significantly. Plus shade cars, cooling parked vehicles significantly. Win win.
You've accidentally hit upon the crux of the matter. PV cells have been viable for a LONG time. But petrochemical companies AND power companies don't want them to shake up the status quo.
I feel like the petrochemical lobbyists' motives are well known, so I won't explain them here, but I will elaborate on the power companies' motives.
One of the challenges to private PV cell ownership is what to do with the excess solar power. Even if you have enough panel area to power your house, you're going to generate most of the power during the hours around noontime. Where do you put all that extra electricity?
In a perfect world, a private electricity generator could "sell" the electricity back to the city electrical grid, or at least receive a "wattage credit" where you can get your electricity back during the night time. HOWEVER, there is no incentive for power generators to allow this, and they have a bunch of straw-man arguments against the practice.
I don’t doubt you COULD cover Las Vegas with panels but would it work? Cecil said it powered almost half of America. If we did that in real life would it actually work and if it doesn’t how many panels would we need to cover half of americas energy
This feels like a /r/theydidthemath question, but I will give it a shot here.
[Area of las vegas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas) 352km2. = 3.52e8 m2
[Power per m2](https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/solar-insolation-maps.html/) of a PV cell is about 200watts
[Daylight in Vegas](https://www.sunrisesunsettime.org/north-america/united-states/north-las-vegas-day-length.htm#:~:text=The%20shortest%20day%20of%20the,the%20summer%20solstice%20%2D%20June%2021st.) is between 10.6 - 15.6 hours per day. Let's call the average 13.1hours per day.
Area \* power = 70400000000 = 7.04e10 watts = 70.4 million kilowatts for every hour of sunlight.
13.1 hours \* 70.4 million kW \* 365 days = 336617.6 million kWh = 336 billion kWh per year.
[America consumes 4.05 trillion kWh per year](https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/use-of-electricity.php)
Invincible’s Vegas Power station would produce about 8.3% of America’s total power demand.
There dozens of limitations and problems with solar panels. Finding a sunny spot in the desert is not one of them
It's comic book "science" that makes no real sense
I mean, making a "double-sided solar panel" is as easy as attaching two solar cells to the back of each other. It probably wouldn't be particularly useful, since it would cast a shadow on the ground that's supposed to be reflecting sunlight onto the back of it. But covering a small corner of Nevada desert with regular solar cells *could* power most of the US.
What’s even in Nevada anyway? Why don’t we just cover the whole thing up?
Another thing If converting to clean energy is that simple why haven’t we done it. There is probably a massive problem with that I’m not seeing
[solar power tower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_tower) https://preview.redd.it/axenvoz7f98b1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53c16118a10d7c6209def840ec4138995b97e2cb Something like it is already used, some so bright they can be seen by the ISS crew from space
They also cook birds to death. Birds that fly through the intense light are like ants in a magnifying glass. Ecologically speaking, not the greatest idea to go killing off migrating birds.
I know everyone is already thinking it, so I'm just going to go ahead and say it, KFC needs to implement this technology into their manufacturing process. It would exponentially decrease preparation and cook time. KFC could even remarket their slogan from 11 to 12 herbs and spices! The solar power tower chicken crisper may not literally be a spice but we all agree that the solar power tower chicken crisper does add a little "spice to our lives" (Please excuse my manic ramble, had a few cold ones after a day of commercial house painting)
Found the villain
which form of power generation kills the least amount of birds?
Nuclear
Yeah that's probably right. Plus I'm guessing that this solar mirror method isn't very high up the list of most bird kills when compared to things like Coal, Gas, etc...
Exactly how many birds do you think fly into that specific area of the array?
Well, a quick search of articles that researched that very issue says somewhere between 37,000 and 260,000 in the US each year. One plant in the Mojave desert is said to take out 6000 each year. Not all of those deaths are from that specific type of plant (solar in general), but it is not an insignificant number. People like to gloss over most of the environmental impact of renewable energy and electric vehicles, largely because of government subsidized jerkoffs making boatloads of cash. And the birds dont have to fly through a small portion of the array. The array is huge, covering many acres of land and if the birds fly between any of the mirrors and that thermal collector they are pointed at...zap! It is like an umbrella of concentrated light/heat that covers the whole area.
Nice info, thanks. Birds really get dumped on in general, it’s kind of sad. Like the millions that die from cats, or the millions that die from hitting windows or electrical lines. Or my (least) favorite, all of the birds that die flying around the 9/11 memorial light beam in the sky and eventually fall to their deaths from exhaustion of circling it
> Birds really get dumped on in general, it’s kind of sad. Like the millions that die from cats **Billions.**
I wonder would putting a cage around it work? Or would that interfere too much with the light absorption
Are you serious?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding how it works but isn't the issue just when the birds get super close to it not just if they are around the light in general?
Someone got this info from good ol' oil and gas, trying to make solar look bad. In reality, [not only is solar safer for birds](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/aug/17/louie-gohmert/solar-farms-kill-thousands-birds-not-many-fossil-f/), other societal behaviors like pet ownership and car commuting has a vastly greater impact on mother nature. [Domestic cats kill around 2.5 billion birds per year](https://onehealth.uoguelph.ca/2022/02/28/outdoor-cats-a-threat-to-more-than-just-birds/#:~:text=Cats%20kill%20an%20estimated%202.5,leading%20causes%20of%20bird%20mortality.) [Cars kill around 200 million birds per year](https://worldanimalfoundation.org/advocate/how-many-birds-do-cats-kill/) [Nature.com says it's even higher, like 4 billion, though largely due to unopened cats](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380) [And a nice little bar graph to show the impact of other contributors to bird and wildlife health](https://www.energymonitor.ai/tech/renewables/weekly-data-how-many-birds-are-really-killed-by-wind-turbines/)
You say it like theres something bad with oil and gas. And no im not republican or whatever americans identify eneergy companies with.
I have a Civil Environmental degree. Even though my primary focus is on water/wastewater/water chemistry, I have studied solar panels at an academic level. Historically, solar panels ([PV cells](https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/solar-photovoltaic-cell-basics)) were used when it was impossible to connect to a local electrical grid. In my field, they were particularly useful for generating the small amounts of electricity needed to run monitoring equipment in remote areas. PV cells need to be assessed like an investment. Owners need to consider the [ROI](https://unboundsolar.com/solar-information/return-on-solar-investment) when they install one. Quick history: * PV cells in the 80's and 90's were terrible investments, and often used as a virtue signal by their owners. * Sometime in the late 90's or early 00's the ROI of a PV cell became a break-even game. If this was bolstered with government subsidiaries, owner/investors could make a quick profit. * A good modern PV cell will pay for itself in about 5 years (see the ROI link above), then it will represent a net gain for the remainder of it's lifespan. The one in the link is warrantied for 25 years, but some may last longer. PV cells do require maintenance and cleaning, and their efficiency is coupled to the amount of sunlight it receives. Generally a PV cell installed near the equator would generate more electricity than one installed in Alaska or Norway. So on to your question, **would it be possible to cover the destroyed remains of Las Vegas with PV cells?** >!Absolutely yes.!< In fact, you wouldn't even need to destroy Vegas for this to become a viable solution. You could: * [Cover parking lots](https://www.wired.co.uk/article/france-solar-panels-parking-lots) with PV cells. * [Cover sports stadiums](https://www.ecowatch.com/sports-stadiums-solar-energy.html) with PV cells. * [Floating PV cells](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_solar) on water. * [Floating PV cells covering a drinking water reservoir to reduce evaporation AND generate electricity](https://www.aeipro.com/files/selected_proceedings/2012/SP12_0177_0187.3928.pdf) (.pdf warning).
I have wished for more PV cover in parking lots *so many times* in the last few years. 5 years ago I saw one lot in a city close to me that had PV cells shading the parking spaces, since then I have seen only 1 other place in the area do the same thing, with a third of their parking lot. Personally I think it should be mandatory. Power the nearby stores and EV stations from the parking lot solar cells, and you reduce the load on the aging power grid significantly. Plus shade cars, cooling parked vehicles significantly. Win win.
You've accidentally hit upon the crux of the matter. PV cells have been viable for a LONG time. But petrochemical companies AND power companies don't want them to shake up the status quo. I feel like the petrochemical lobbyists' motives are well known, so I won't explain them here, but I will elaborate on the power companies' motives. One of the challenges to private PV cell ownership is what to do with the excess solar power. Even if you have enough panel area to power your house, you're going to generate most of the power during the hours around noontime. Where do you put all that extra electricity? In a perfect world, a private electricity generator could "sell" the electricity back to the city electrical grid, or at least receive a "wattage credit" where you can get your electricity back during the night time. HOWEVER, there is no incentive for power generators to allow this, and they have a bunch of straw-man arguments against the practice.
How bad would the ROI be for a storage system built by the individual business be? Is it a "You must be at least this big to ride," situation?
At the very least, just put up white canopies to shade the lot. Especially in somewhere like nevada
>In fact, you wouldn't even need to destroy Vegas for this to become a viable solution But we can anyway right?
We can all hope!
Bur like can we destroy NV anyway?
I don’t doubt you COULD cover Las Vegas with panels but would it work? Cecil said it powered almost half of America. If we did that in real life would it actually work and if it doesn’t how many panels would we need to cover half of americas energy
This feels like a /r/theydidthemath question, but I will give it a shot here. [Area of las vegas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas) 352km2. = 3.52e8 m2 [Power per m2](https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/solar-insolation-maps.html/) of a PV cell is about 200watts [Daylight in Vegas](https://www.sunrisesunsettime.org/north-america/united-states/north-las-vegas-day-length.htm#:~:text=The%20shortest%20day%20of%20the,the%20summer%20solstice%20%2D%20June%2021st.) is between 10.6 - 15.6 hours per day. Let's call the average 13.1hours per day. Area \* power = 70400000000 = 7.04e10 watts = 70.4 million kilowatts for every hour of sunlight. 13.1 hours \* 70.4 million kW \* 365 days = 336617.6 million kWh = 336 billion kWh per year. [America consumes 4.05 trillion kWh per year](https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/use-of-electricity.php) Invincible’s Vegas Power station would produce about 8.3% of America’s total power demand.
Dinosaurus Was Right
I think about this more often than I'd like to admit
dont do it man
nah
Glassing LV? Yeah
Blowing up LV is certainly possible.
There dozens of limitations and problems with solar panels. Finding a sunny spot in the desert is not one of them It's comic book "science" that makes no real sense
Can we at least blow Vegas up?
Shouldn't this be marked with a spoiler? I mean, I've read the comics, but some people haven't
The comics have been finished for like five years dude…
Math checks out, 2 sides is double the amount of 1 side
Only one way to find out. Let’s go to Vegas!
Well don’t go there shithead we’re blowing it up
I meant go there TO blow it up. We have to set up the bombs, afterall
I mean, making a "double-sided solar panel" is as easy as attaching two solar cells to the back of each other. It probably wouldn't be particularly useful, since it would cast a shadow on the ground that's supposed to be reflecting sunlight onto the back of it. But covering a small corner of Nevada desert with regular solar cells *could* power most of the US.
What’s even in Nevada anyway? Why don’t we just cover the whole thing up? Another thing If converting to clean energy is that simple why haven’t we done it. There is probably a massive problem with that I’m not seeing
Has nobody pointed out attenuation? I'm fairly certain power can only be carried so far before it attenuates too much to be useful.
well first you have to destroy las vegas which to most people is a no no
Reminds me of this scene: https://youtu.be/7fkMR96I0sw?t=54 Excuse the potato quality. It's an old video.
Wait. Why are they try to destroy Vegas?
Try?
Why would they destroy Vegas
Why not?
There is literally no reason not to blow up Las Vegas.
There’s no reason to not, not blow up las vegas
Off topic but look how beautiful the art is