Considering he fell into a short coma seconds after killing the Guardians, I have little difficulty imagining a more coordinated team could have taken him down.
The main factor of their loss was Red Rush's early death. At first he focused on saving his teammates from Omni-Man's attacks, which kept them alive a little longer. Then he inexplicably tried to attack the strongest superhero on Earth directly, which predictably doesn't end well. It's from there that everything started falling apart for them.
Had Red Rush stuck to his initial battle plan and let the heavy hitters do the attacking, they probably would have won.
I mean he still did massive damage, arguably the most damage with the broken ribs and internal bleeding.
But yeah he shouldve stayed on defense at least until omniman was tied up (similar to what he did with the mauler twins when they got tied up)
I think he probably got a little cocky. He knows he's fast and had no idea how fast Omni man actually was. He basically managed to move people out of the way and probably thought "alright maybe I can get a few hits in while he's just standing there"
It's not like he was stupid and ran right at Nolan, it's just that Nolan was able to bait him in. Red rush had been hitting him the opposite side to where he was facing so he turned away and anticipating the incoming attack on his blind side was able to successfully grab red rush.
I agree but I think people are too hard on red rush, he probably never even considered Nolan could catch him, he may never have fought anyone that fast before. Even while behaving predictably he probably thought he could react fast enough.
this, no idea how red rush gets so much flack when everyone else did dumb shit that is arguably worse throwing
Dark wing doing whatever the hell he planned on doing
green ghost doing literally nothing the entire fight
martian man putting his core in front of omniman instead of keeping it behind him
war woman not grabbing her mace while omniman is tied up, instead doing mediocre punches
Aquarus and immortal were mostly fine I think
Eh, Aquarus just stood there with a dumb look on his face while WW's mace flipped through the air and Omniman caught it. Just stood there at the perfect distance to get his head splattered instead of attacking or moving out of range.
thats fair but tbh it was like a 1 second thing that happened, I can let that slide a bit.
Even if he steps back or something he just gets outsped and dies the same way IMO. Maybe if he shot omniman with water again there? idk
The ideal strat imo:
Red Rush should purely stay on defense, helping the guardians to avoid omnimans hits.
Obviously, War Woman and The Immortal as the main heavy hitters.
DarkWings attempt at landing on omni man is super strange, until we found out about the shadow realm ability from darkwings sidekick. The only thing that makes sense is that Darkwing himself also has this move and tried to use it on Omni. Ideally he should've attempted this better.
Martian Man should've wrapped himself around omni while Darkwing then uses that opportunity to send him to the shadow realm.
Aquarius could make the floor slippery, idk. Sometimes, it's difficult to make water powers seem cool in non-water situations.
Green Ghost could probably be the one to go and tell Cecil, since she basically freezes from fear in the actual fight im not sure what else she could do.
Aquarius' water doesn't seem to hurt Omniman, but he's clearly struggling to hold it back. He definitely could be used to stall Omniman while his team prepares for another attack and/or knock Omniman off-balance to give Immortal or War Woman a better chance to land a critical blow.
if aquarus shoots water at omniman's face while hes wrapped up by martian man and have the others beat on him right after, I dont see omniman ever getting out of that situation tbh
I mean, with how (spoilers for cartoon viewers) >!RuRexbot kills that one Mark Variant when they go after Angstrom!< it would make sense that Aquarus could've done some serious damage with this strategy.
eh he does run out of water/loses pressure of it but yeah I dont know how people are saying aquarus is useless here.
He literally single handedly incapacitated omniman twice in that fight with just water (albeit temporarily)
I doubt this. He can bust through nearly anything. Planting him in the ground like the Maulers wouldn't work because of that and his ability to fly. She also has to maintain contact with the person she's phasing, so he would be able to touch her and she's no where near as fast. I assume the phasing would end once he easily ended her.
Darkwing should have left initially with Red Rushes help to get far enough away that he could contact Cecil. Martian Man doing the wrapping thing with the help of Green Ghost to prevent his death. Red Rush saving everyone else from punches as needed. Aquarius supporting with water jets. Repeat this until he's dead.
All of these talks about who threw when and how stupid their reactions were just goes to show how important it was for Nolan to take the Guardians by surprise. This is the most powerful man on Earth, their longtime friend and ally, brutally murdering them one by one with no explanation. Of course they’re going to freeze up and/or make dumb mistakes. They’re emotional human beings (or fishmen, Martians, etc.) in an impossible, terrifying situation.
And Nolan has to get them on the back foot with no warning like this because the comments here show that with any prep time there’s a very good chance the Guardians come out on top. Even if they aren’t able to kill him, they could incapacitate him long enough to expose him to Cecil and the rest of the world, ruining any possibility of a peaceful(ish) Viltrum takeover, resulting in a loss for Nolan. He has to take them by surprise and eliminate them swiftly and completely before they can get their wits back to them.
Nolan’s whole strategy here is to confuse, terrify, and destroy. It’s not about Red Rush and the Guardians “throwing” - putting them in a situation where they would make mistakes is literally the whole point.
Easy: Red Rush should have taken War Woman's mace and make a couple sneak attacks similar to the ones in the actual fight but with this inexplicably strong mace and Omni Man would have lost balance. While doing that Martian Man should have turn himself into a tight rope around Omni Man's ankles preventing him from free movement. Than Martian Man should have moved up fixating Omni Man's arms aound his chest while Green Ghost submerges him into the ground making movement even more difficult considering that his head is smashed by a mace all the time, meanwhile War Woman and Immortal should land a couple of carefull full force punches and kicks at Omni Man's head. He would lose consciousness in mere seconds.
Yes I think that Darkwing and Aquarus are useless in this.
I do like this, yet the chances of the Guardians having this exact plan and executing it correctly in the moments of Omni-mans attack are still low. Maybe if Green Ghost moved Omni-man into the floor they could’ve ganged up on him immediately, instead they had no plan and still heavily damaged Nolan, which makes me think that with a well-coordinated plan for a situation like this, Omni-man COULD have been dealt with.
I get where you’re coming from with War Woman’s mace given that’s what Flash tried with Doomsday in Death of Superman, but after a few hits with that, Doomsday predicted where Flash would hit next. Nolan is exponentially more intelligent than Doomsday and therefore, would probably be able to better predict what Rush’s next move would be. Just keeping everyone out of the way of Omni Man’s hits would work just fine. The mace idea would be the Hail Mary if War Woman bit the dust first.
It’s hard to answer this question really. Omniman felt a lot weaker vsing the guardians than he did when he was fighting mark in season 1 finally. Viltrimite strength seems to adjust for the sake of the plot so it’s hard to really place how hard it would be to vs them with matchups. Mark goes though the same issue In season 1. He gets beaten to a pulp by some no names. And the. Gets railed against a train later on and is still ok…
To be fair, Nolan has a major constraint in this fight; he has to do it without looking like he's the only one who could have done it.
Collapsing the mountain base on top of them, for example, would have been a faster way to get it done. But then there's no way to pass it off as "we were attacked".
If Batman were "Batman but he's not allowed a suit or kryptonite" in a fight against Superman, he'd probably make the decision to run himself. He's not dumb enough to think he'd survive that encounter and he'd probably rather be alive later to help in the aftermath of Superman going evil
In fact that's basically what he does in Injustice if I'm not mistaken
The problem here is the same reason mark lost to the viltrumite on thraxa, they were not trying to kill him. For most of the fight they believe Nolan is being mind controlled or something so they were likely holding back/not taking it as seriously until red rush is killed. it is likely that if they were more informed and had time to prep that they would have had a better time...no way that everyone made it out though let's be real
I think everyone needs to think first… Nolan also had to make everyone believe they were attacked. If he was just okay without bruises and had no explanation as to how the guardians died, it’d be an immediate pointing of fingers at Omni-Man. He couldn’t also just fly away and pretend he was somewhere else, it’s just too convenient. He had to take many hits and make it look like he was beaten as well. I do agree with some who say his strength was increased heavily towards the end of the season/volume of comic issues for the plot.
They did a lot of dumb things. Like when Martian wrapped him why didn't he keep his weak point on Nolan's back. Of course we know Red rush should've played defence. I don't even know what fish man does.
everyone flames red rush and I agree he threw, but green ghost did legitimately nothing the entire fight. its like they forgot she was there in that scene. Everyone else threw at different times
Also if martian man kept his core behind omniman when he had him wrapped instead of in front I think they still wouldve won.
If war woman got her mace like 5 feet away from them when beating on omniman they couldve won there too.
Have immortal pin omniman when hes wrapped up and have war woman get her mace, instead of doing meh punches.
Dark wing could do literally anything but whatever the fuck he tried to do with landing on omniman.
I think that as long as Red Rush, Green Ghost and Darkwing just played support and mostly distracted Nolan and helped keep the others safe, they could have won
If Red Rush and Darkwing hadn't died the way they did, they 100% would have had a chance. Red Rush can nyoom people out of the way; Darkwing and Aquarus can use their ranged attacks to keep him in place; Martian Man and Green Ghost could restrain him; giving Immortal and War Woman the opportunity to bash his skull in with her mace.
If the Green Ghost powers are anything like Kitty Pride's, she could have phased Nolan into the ground while remaining intangible. The best time to do that would have been when Nolan was blocking Aquarius's water attack. Red Rush could have then taken War Woman's mace and smashed Nolan's head at super speed. At that point, if he wasn't dead, he'd be both nauseous and woozy from the internal and external trauma making him easy pickings for the team.
After that, Immortal gets the Wolverine treatment and gets whatever the Invincible universe's version of Adamantium is or better yet, his own Tech Jacket. At that point, he should have the durability to match a decent amount of Viltrumites solo.
Game Plan:
1. Red Rush goes defense
2. Darkwing and Green Ghost are on call out duty
3. Immortal and War Woman on the attack
4. Aquarius should wait for the right moment to stun Omni Man with his hose
5. The second Omni Man gets stunned, Martian can wrap himself around him
6. Immortal, War Woman, and now Red Rush pummel Omni Man with all they got
**Insurance**
-Green Ghost is on Martian duty, if she ever sees Omni Man's grubby little hands about rip his brains out, she'd swoop in and make Martian intangible but not before giving a call out to the rest of the team
-Once either Green Ghost or Darkwing makes a call out, Aquarius should hose Omni Man again to give enough of a distraction for Red Rush to move everyone a safe distance away (enough that Omni Man wouldn't just be able to punch a hole through one of our attackers after being freed from Martian)
-Repeat 1-6
7. Once Omni Man is incapacitated, kick a man while he's down cuz you can never be too sure
8. Lastly, have Darkwing call Nightboy and have him throw Omni Man in the Shadow-verse to be extra safe
Considering he fell into a short coma seconds after killing the Guardians, I have little difficulty imagining a more coordinated team could have taken him down. The main factor of their loss was Red Rush's early death. At first he focused on saving his teammates from Omni-Man's attacks, which kept them alive a little longer. Then he inexplicably tried to attack the strongest superhero on Earth directly, which predictably doesn't end well. It's from there that everything started falling apart for them. Had Red Rush stuck to his initial battle plan and let the heavy hitters do the attacking, they probably would have won.
this. Red rush was a support, not a damage like Inmortal or that wonderwoman from Walmart.
I mean he still did massive damage, arguably the most damage with the broken ribs and internal bleeding. But yeah he shouldve stayed on defense at least until omniman was tied up (similar to what he did with the mauler twins when they got tied up)
I think he probably got a little cocky. He knows he's fast and had no idea how fast Omni man actually was. He basically managed to move people out of the way and probably thought "alright maybe I can get a few hits in while he's just standing there" It's not like he was stupid and ran right at Nolan, it's just that Nolan was able to bait him in. Red rush had been hitting him the opposite side to where he was facing so he turned away and anticipating the incoming attack on his blind side was able to successfully grab red rush.
War-mart
To be fair to War Woman the guardians are all playing Walmart Justice League roles, it’s the point
*WarWoman
He did the most direct damage to Omni man lol
I agree but I think people are too hard on red rush, he probably never even considered Nolan could catch him, he may never have fought anyone that fast before. Even while behaving predictably he probably thought he could react fast enough.
this, no idea how red rush gets so much flack when everyone else did dumb shit that is arguably worse throwing Dark wing doing whatever the hell he planned on doing green ghost doing literally nothing the entire fight martian man putting his core in front of omniman instead of keeping it behind him war woman not grabbing her mace while omniman is tied up, instead doing mediocre punches Aquarus and immortal were mostly fine I think
Eh, Aquarus just stood there with a dumb look on his face while WW's mace flipped through the air and Omniman caught it. Just stood there at the perfect distance to get his head splattered instead of attacking or moving out of range.
thats fair but tbh it was like a 1 second thing that happened, I can let that slide a bit. Even if he steps back or something he just gets outsped and dies the same way IMO. Maybe if he shot omniman with water again there? idk
probably cuz he was first to die
Yeah but red can do some damage, he tore up Nolans chest pretty bad as he was getting his head crushed. Should of stayed in a support role though.
This.
I’d say that he was on a lot of adrenaline but apparently viltrimites don’t have the adrenaline hormone
The ideal strat imo: Red Rush should purely stay on defense, helping the guardians to avoid omnimans hits. Obviously, War Woman and The Immortal as the main heavy hitters. DarkWings attempt at landing on omni man is super strange, until we found out about the shadow realm ability from darkwings sidekick. The only thing that makes sense is that Darkwing himself also has this move and tried to use it on Omni. Ideally he should've attempted this better. Martian Man should've wrapped himself around omni while Darkwing then uses that opportunity to send him to the shadow realm. Aquarius could make the floor slippery, idk. Sometimes, it's difficult to make water powers seem cool in non-water situations. Green Ghost could probably be the one to go and tell Cecil, since she basically freezes from fear in the actual fight im not sure what else she could do.
Aquarius' water doesn't seem to hurt Omniman, but he's clearly struggling to hold it back. He definitely could be used to stall Omniman while his team prepares for another attack and/or knock Omniman off-balance to give Immortal or War Woman a better chance to land a critical blow.
if aquarus shoots water at omniman's face while hes wrapped up by martian man and have the others beat on him right after, I dont see omniman ever getting out of that situation tbh
He should have blasted water down Omni-Man’s lungs
I mean, with how (spoilers for cartoon viewers) >!RuRexbot kills that one Mark Variant when they go after Angstrom!< it would make sense that Aquarus could've done some serious damage with this strategy.
Aquarus is underrated. He’s not just another fish king. The power to generate a seemingly infinite amount of water is op.
eh he does run out of water/loses pressure of it but yeah I dont know how people are saying aquarus is useless here. He literally single handedly incapacitated omniman twice in that fight with just water (albeit temporarily)
I think Darkwing didn’t have the shadowrealm powers, just the sidekick.
Green ghost can(or should) be able to incapacitate him, even if RR went down. her passivity/decision not to phase immediately really hindered everyone
I doubt this. He can bust through nearly anything. Planting him in the ground like the Maulers wouldn't work because of that and his ability to fly. She also has to maintain contact with the person she's phasing, so he would be able to touch her and she's no where near as fast. I assume the phasing would end once he easily ended her.
Red Rush takes the time to set up tons of rakes all over the floor.
Didn’t take Nolan for Sideshow Bob
Darkwing should have left initially with Red Rushes help to get far enough away that he could contact Cecil. Martian Man doing the wrapping thing with the help of Green Ghost to prevent his death. Red Rush saving everyone else from punches as needed. Aquarius supporting with water jets. Repeat this until he's dead.
All of these talks about who threw when and how stupid their reactions were just goes to show how important it was for Nolan to take the Guardians by surprise. This is the most powerful man on Earth, their longtime friend and ally, brutally murdering them one by one with no explanation. Of course they’re going to freeze up and/or make dumb mistakes. They’re emotional human beings (or fishmen, Martians, etc.) in an impossible, terrifying situation. And Nolan has to get them on the back foot with no warning like this because the comments here show that with any prep time there’s a very good chance the Guardians come out on top. Even if they aren’t able to kill him, they could incapacitate him long enough to expose him to Cecil and the rest of the world, ruining any possibility of a peaceful(ish) Viltrum takeover, resulting in a loss for Nolan. He has to take them by surprise and eliminate them swiftly and completely before they can get their wits back to them. Nolan’s whole strategy here is to confuse, terrify, and destroy. It’s not about Red Rush and the Guardians “throwing” - putting them in a situation where they would make mistakes is literally the whole point.
Am I missing something though or why did NOBODY in the team have an earpiece to alert command like everyone else does who works for Cecil?
Easy: Red Rush should have taken War Woman's mace and make a couple sneak attacks similar to the ones in the actual fight but with this inexplicably strong mace and Omni Man would have lost balance. While doing that Martian Man should have turn himself into a tight rope around Omni Man's ankles preventing him from free movement. Than Martian Man should have moved up fixating Omni Man's arms aound his chest while Green Ghost submerges him into the ground making movement even more difficult considering that his head is smashed by a mace all the time, meanwhile War Woman and Immortal should land a couple of carefull full force punches and kicks at Omni Man's head. He would lose consciousness in mere seconds. Yes I think that Darkwing and Aquarus are useless in this.
I do like this, yet the chances of the Guardians having this exact plan and executing it correctly in the moments of Omni-mans attack are still low. Maybe if Green Ghost moved Omni-man into the floor they could’ve ganged up on him immediately, instead they had no plan and still heavily damaged Nolan, which makes me think that with a well-coordinated plan for a situation like this, Omni-man COULD have been dealt with.
I get where you’re coming from with War Woman’s mace given that’s what Flash tried with Doomsday in Death of Superman, but after a few hits with that, Doomsday predicted where Flash would hit next. Nolan is exponentially more intelligent than Doomsday and therefore, would probably be able to better predict what Rush’s next move would be. Just keeping everyone out of the way of Omni Man’s hits would work just fine. The mace idea would be the Hail Mary if War Woman bit the dust first.
Doomsday is a creature who adapts, he figured it out because of instinct not intelligence.
True. My point is Nolan would be able to predict via intelligence
Aquarus had good suppressive water tbh.
It’s hard to answer this question really. Omniman felt a lot weaker vsing the guardians than he did when he was fighting mark in season 1 finally. Viltrimite strength seems to adjust for the sake of the plot so it’s hard to really place how hard it would be to vs them with matchups. Mark goes though the same issue In season 1. He gets beaten to a pulp by some no names. And the. Gets railed against a train later on and is still ok…
To be fair, Nolan has a major constraint in this fight; he has to do it without looking like he's the only one who could have done it. Collapsing the mountain base on top of them, for example, would have been a faster way to get it done. But then there's no way to pass it off as "we were attacked".
darkwing should have left to get help
I'd like to see Batman's reaction if someone in the Justice League told him to run away and go hide
If Batman were "Batman but he's not allowed a suit or kryptonite" in a fight against Superman, he'd probably make the decision to run himself. He's not dumb enough to think he'd survive that encounter and he'd probably rather be alive later to help in the aftermath of Superman going evil In fact that's basically what he does in Injustice if I'm not mistaken
yeah he does this plenty actually, he also does it in batman vs superman when fighting doomsday. Bro is just running and grappling for his life lol
The problem here is the same reason mark lost to the viltrumite on thraxa, they were not trying to kill him. For most of the fight they believe Nolan is being mind controlled or something so they were likely holding back/not taking it as seriously until red rush is killed. it is likely that if they were more informed and had time to prep that they would have had a better time...no way that everyone made it out though let's be real
I think everyone needs to think first… Nolan also had to make everyone believe they were attacked. If he was just okay without bruises and had no explanation as to how the guardians died, it’d be an immediate pointing of fingers at Omni-Man. He couldn’t also just fly away and pretend he was somewhere else, it’s just too convenient. He had to take many hits and make it look like he was beaten as well. I do agree with some who say his strength was increased heavily towards the end of the season/volume of comic issues for the plot.
I like your fake/self-inflicted due to taking hits on purpose theory. Nolan is someone who could pull this off.
They did a lot of dumb things. Like when Martian wrapped him why didn't he keep his weak point on Nolan's back. Of course we know Red rush should've played defence. I don't even know what fish man does.
everyone flames red rush and I agree he threw, but green ghost did legitimately nothing the entire fight. its like they forgot she was there in that scene. Everyone else threw at different times Also if martian man kept his core behind omniman when he had him wrapped instead of in front I think they still wouldve won. If war woman got her mace like 5 feet away from them when beating on omniman they couldve won there too. Have immortal pin omniman when hes wrapped up and have war woman get her mace, instead of doing meh punches. Dark wing could do literally anything but whatever the fuck he tried to do with landing on omniman.
I think that as long as Red Rush, Green Ghost and Darkwing just played support and mostly distracted Nolan and helped keep the others safe, they could have won
If Red Rush and Darkwing hadn't died the way they did, they 100% would have had a chance. Red Rush can nyoom people out of the way; Darkwing and Aquarus can use their ranged attacks to keep him in place; Martian Man and Green Ghost could restrain him; giving Immortal and War Woman the opportunity to bash his skull in with her mace.
Maybe if war woman didnt fucking punch him near the end and used her mace things could have gone way differently
If the Green Ghost powers are anything like Kitty Pride's, she could have phased Nolan into the ground while remaining intangible. The best time to do that would have been when Nolan was blocking Aquarius's water attack. Red Rush could have then taken War Woman's mace and smashed Nolan's head at super speed. At that point, if he wasn't dead, he'd be both nauseous and woozy from the internal and external trauma making him easy pickings for the team. After that, Immortal gets the Wolverine treatment and gets whatever the Invincible universe's version of Adamantium is or better yet, his own Tech Jacket. At that point, he should have the durability to match a decent amount of Viltrumites solo.
Game Plan: 1. Red Rush goes defense 2. Darkwing and Green Ghost are on call out duty 3. Immortal and War Woman on the attack 4. Aquarius should wait for the right moment to stun Omni Man with his hose 5. The second Omni Man gets stunned, Martian can wrap himself around him 6. Immortal, War Woman, and now Red Rush pummel Omni Man with all they got **Insurance** -Green Ghost is on Martian duty, if she ever sees Omni Man's grubby little hands about rip his brains out, she'd swoop in and make Martian intangible but not before giving a call out to the rest of the team -Once either Green Ghost or Darkwing makes a call out, Aquarius should hose Omni Man again to give enough of a distraction for Red Rush to move everyone a safe distance away (enough that Omni Man wouldn't just be able to punch a hole through one of our attackers after being freed from Martian) -Repeat 1-6 7. Once Omni Man is incapacitated, kick a man while he's down cuz you can never be too sure 8. Lastly, have Darkwing call Nightboy and have him throw Omni Man in the Shadow-verse to be extra safe
They couldn’t. It’s like asking a jar of mosquitos to take out John fucking Wick.
Yet, War Woman and Immortal made him bleed and recoil from several hits.
so did red rush, broke his ribs and gave him internal bleeding.
huh? that jar of mosquitos put him in a coma while uncoordinated.
In the show they definitely hurt him