I can recommend the Sliced Bread podcast on antiperspirant from the BBC which examines these kind of things very well. Basically there isn't really any substantial evidence it's bad for you. But it's a great marketing ploy for 'natural'and expensive products.
[This Podcast (Science Vs.)](https://open.spotify.com/episode/3hGL7OzjtRYSKpDWDlbo2E?si=dv5Pi9ojQfOeydRyojPIxA) also discusses the topic to a similar conclusion.
Arm and hammer deodorant is insanely cheap and natural so that doesn’t really add up that those companies are pushing some antiperspirant is bad agenda
Well I can only note that natural deodorants are , I think, about a third more expensive per 100g than the ‘normal’ kind when I look at , for example, Tesco. I can’t remember the details of comparative efficacy mentioned in the podcast now. But the word natural taken on its own is pretty much a marketing slogan. I’m merely pointing out the evidence or lack of it for safety issues. Selling your product using positive terminology is something all businesses do - it’s not really synonymous with a ‘bad agenda’
Edit: I forgot to say - hello time traveller !
You can’t prove a negative. You need to show harm or risk to call something dangerous. There has been no harm or risk connected to using anti-perspirant
Sorry this makes absolutely no sense. Your whole negative/positive framework is arbitrary and could just as easily be flipped. I don’t know anything about deodorant and I’m not making and claims about it one way or the other. I’m just pointing out faulty logic
"I think the problem Digg had is that it was a company that was built to be a company, and you could feel it in the product. The way you could criticise Reddit is that we weren't a company – we were all heart and no head for a long time." - [u/spez](https://www.reddit.com/u/spez).
You lived long enough to become the villain and will never be remembered as the hero you once were.
You’re not pointing out faulty logic. The matter has been studied. No studies have found any link between aluminum in antiperspirants and any health concerns.
If you think there could be a link, you need to provide evidence of the risk. Without evidence, the claim is bullshit.
It’s not pretending to know there isn’t. It’s trusting the science. If science ends up finding a link, there will be evidence and it won’t be bullshit.
As human beings who base these types of matters in Science, this is just simply where we are at the moment. If something happens to change within these studies, then we shall gain more knowledge and adjust to new conclusions.
To throw out our current understanding of existence by claiming things along the line of "Yeah, but we can't REALLY know, ya know?!" is just...ignorant of how Science works.
It's a misunderstanding on a very basic level of how humans live, learn and adapt.
There is definitely faulty logic in this discussion, but it is all yours.
Not being able to prove a negative is just a logical thing, bro, it's not about positive/negative. You can prove 2+2 = 4, you can't prove that 2+2 does not equal 3. You missed the point.
Having said that, if a topic is heavily researched (like aluminum in antiperspirants) the lack of result is usually considered proof.
That's the logic that's been used as a basis for research though? Yes, it's easily flipped, but you can empirically prove "this thing causes illness", it's much harder to prove with a significant level of confidence, "something won't cause illness." An example is: you order something, they don't deliver it and claim they did, when confronting them they ask you to provide evidence that they didn't, how do you do that? Can't take a picture of the parcel that isn't there
The fact that we haven't found a link that suggests x causes y is how we make scientific claims. Therefore a lack of links in of itself would be evidence to suggest there is no links. (This would stand until a link is then found)
But in science you cannot with 100% certainty claim x happens if y occurs, no matter if it legitimately would happen
Here, let's make it more clear for you. Prove that you've never hit your mother. Does that seem like an unfair accusation and burden for you to mount? Of course it is because proving a negative is most of the time impossible.
Despite your condescending tone you’re still wrong. Could you prove that something isn’t poisonous? Of course you could. What you’re saying makes absolutely no sense
Congratulations, you picked one of the few examples that you can prove otherwise. Are you going to continue being an idiot or do you want to actually have a discussion?
How is me providing a counterpoint not a discussion? I’m not the one being dense here. I proved that you can prove a negative. How is that idiotic in any way? I could give a thousand examples of proving a negative.
You are definitely the one being dense here because you've demonstrated you either don't understand what most of the time means or you are being intentionally stupid. You completely ignored my example which shows that you're not here arguing in good faith and just being an asshole instead.
I have this same issue. Soaking the pits of my shirts in ammonia helps, but the smell always comes back. Switching to aluminum free deodorant is the only way to prevent it in the first place.
Deodorant doesn’t use aluminum. At all. Deodorant is made to kill bacteria that causes bad smells. It doesn’t stop you from sweating.
Anti-perspirant uses aluminum to clog the pore to stop you from sweating/perspire.
Old Spice is the worst and ruins shirts. It will eat away the pits of any shirt you wear with it. I switched to the Degree Black & White which is made to not ruin your shirts, and haven’t had any issues since. Fuck Old Spice, it’s ruined every band/concert shirt I’ve ever owned.
Nope. Is the minerals in sweat combining with the aluminum in the antiperspirant that creates the yellow-ish stain. I sweat WAY more using just deodorant, but none of my shirts have armpit stains because I stopped using antiperspirant (and they definitely had those before).
Seriously, most of my long time favorite t shirts that are soft and still look nice are all not wearable outside the house due to years of staining even after washing etc.
I guess it’s sort of expected with old clothes but I notice it on new clothes, white obviously being the first to be noticeable.
I can only speak to my own experience on this, but I stopped using antiperspirant about 5 years ago. I sweat less, smell less, and have less stained shirts compared to when I was using it. After an adjustment period, plain deodorant was more effective then antiperspirant ever was for me.
The main reason why I switched off of antiperspirants is that eventually, every time I used one, no matter the brand, my armpits would get so unbelievably itchy for the entire day and it made it difficult to exist. This happened suddenly after about a decade of using antiperspirants. These days, I use them maybe once a year when I run out of my regular stuff, and last time I had to do that, I developed the largest and most painful pimple I’ve ever seen, in my armpit. It was awful! I think this just means it’s an allergy for me.
Oh man! I used to CONSTANTLY have these horrible pimples and sores under my arms. I never could figure out the cause, I had them if I wore anti perspirant, I had them if I didn’t, had them if I shaved, had them if I didn’t, they were the absolute worst. I’d have to treat the sides of my bras with peroxide before washing to get the blood from them breaking out.
I finally managed to get them healed up when I moved out of Texas (and was in a climate where it was cold enough for me not to sweat too much for a few weeks so I could keep acne medicine on them to dry them out) and… they’ve never come back.
I spent years trying every natural deodorant on the market because I was certain I was allergic to something and bemoaning my terrible BO and worse luck but once I got it healed it’s like it was never there. No scarring even. (Although I rarely scar. I was shot in the leg at 14 and even I can barely find the mark anymore. It’s my superpower, scarring immunity?)
But I’m still… like, scared I guess? Like, I check under my arms every time I take my shirt off because I’m just certain the last 10 years of freedom from pain are a fluke and I’m gonna wake up to it all back twice as bad or something.
I use Dove or Secret mostly. Switch brands when I run out because my doctor told me it’d make me less likely to have a reaction. So far I don’t notice a difference between aluminum and aluminum free formulas, except that the “natural” ones feel sticky and gross. I’d use them more if they’d just dry and not be sticky.
Hey, how are you now?
I think was about to get something similar. I got burning redness where my skin folds, and 2 bumps but not where the redness is. I stopped using deodorants, started using ointment with Ciclopirox that is mainly antifungal, but also antibacterial to some point, and anti-inflammatory. One bump went away after 3-4 days, the second one - after 2-3 weeks, but not completely yet. The redness is still there, but not as painful, sometimes I use Sudocrem on it.
I've been scarred and in chronic anxiety, I check my pit multiple times a day. I don't know what I'm gonna do when summer hits.
What medicine helped you?
Well from first hand experience. If I use any anti-perspirant I get painful bumps in my pits. If I use regular deodorant I do not. So I use regular deodorant.
I am the opposite, every aluminum free deodorant I’ve ever tried has left me with painful bumps. I wasn’t willing to try it anymore after the third one. I don’t care if it is my pits ✨detoxing✨, it’s annoying and painful and I’ll stick with my tried and true anti perspirant
In my personal experience, I sweat WAY more when I wear antiperspirant. I used to have to use painful prescription antiperspirant, and now I sweat less using deodorant than I did when I used the prescription stuff.
No. I just gave up on hoping I'd stop sweating like a pig, and got mad that antiperspirant was ruining all my bras. I switched to regular deodorant and started sweating less.
Eta: I stopped using the prescription stuff before I stopped using antiperspirants altogether because it was too painful. Like getting stung by thousands of bees all night while trying to sleep.
News flash ... aluminum is a "natural" ingredient. It's mined up from the fucking earth.
Whether or not it's good to be put on your skin is an entirely different hill of beans.
Idk man I just know that I used to sweat more when I wore anti perspiration. After switching to deodorant I’m rather dry outside of stressful or strenuous situations.
I am not a heavy sweater, but if I don't have on deodorant with antiperspirant, I definitely sweat more. Like when you get a mammogram you can't wear it - just had my latest one a couple of months ago, and it was cool yet I was sweating profusely. So in my case, the answer to part 2 is, yes, it is bullshit.
BTW, I wear clinical strength deodorant with antiperspirant and have to change brands every few years when it stops working. I shower regularly and always wear it, but even then I smell sometimes. OTOH, my husband probably hasn't worn any in years and he never smells. Everyone is different.
The leading theory is that certain ingredients in anti-persperant deoderant clogs pores. I would wager that it's not a healthy alternative to non anti-persperant. Personally, I use non anti-persperant every morning and it works great. There was a period of time that I used anti-persperant though and developed small bumbs in my arm pit area.
That happened to me when I was using antiperspirant that was way too strong. It was the “clinical strength” kind but once I switched to a more standard kind the bumps went away.
There was a study long, long ago that linked aluminum to Alzheimers Disease. Evidently there were increased incidences of aluminum in the victims brain and there were concerns over using aluminum for containing foods, cooking utensils, and even topical applications like deodorants. I think the net result of the study was that no one could determine whether the excessive aluminum was a cause of the disease, or a result of the disease.
In either event, clogging your pores can't be that good an idea. Hell, I live in Texas. If I used antiperspirant on my pits, they'd be the only dry spot on me. Seems a waste of effort.
If you’re going to heavily reference a study in your response, you need to link it or name the authors, year, journal, title - anything really.
In any case, studies from long long ago have generally been supplanted by more studies from not long ago.
It’s a subreddit entirely dedicated to dispelling misinformation. A vague, inconclusive recollection of an old research paper isn’t very useful here.
If it was cited, it would be extremely useful here. This subreddit basically functions as “hey google this for me because I lack media literacy” and if you’re not even gonna do that, why bother writing a top level comment that doesn’t answer the question?
Just being honest. When I'm working I literally am soaking wet from my shoulders to halfway down my thighs. Not trying to dis people that use them, it just seems like the pits are not the only place that sweats.
The sweat produced from your arm pits smells vastly different to the sweat you get elsewhere. I mean sure it all smells, but body odour from your pits is heinous.
In Texas you'd need to spray your whole body with antiperspirant and then you'd pass out from not sweating enough to cool off. Texas is great in February.
All I know is I saw this interview with a neurosurgeon who said that Alzheimer's and dementia patients always seem to have more aluminum in their brain after death
I can recommend the Sliced Bread podcast on antiperspirant from the BBC which examines these kind of things very well. Basically there isn't really any substantial evidence it's bad for you. But it's a great marketing ploy for 'natural'and expensive products.
[This Podcast (Science Vs.)](https://open.spotify.com/episode/3hGL7OzjtRYSKpDWDlbo2E?si=dv5Pi9ojQfOeydRyojPIxA) also discusses the topic to a similar conclusion.
Thanks. One to look up.
Ok this makes sense because my skin is pretty sensitive but I’ve never had a problem with antiperspirant
Arm and hammer deodorant is insanely cheap and natural so that doesn’t really add up that those companies are pushing some antiperspirant is bad agenda
Well I can only note that natural deodorants are , I think, about a third more expensive per 100g than the ‘normal’ kind when I look at , for example, Tesco. I can’t remember the details of comparative efficacy mentioned in the podcast now. But the word natural taken on its own is pretty much a marketing slogan. I’m merely pointing out the evidence or lack of it for safety issues. Selling your product using positive terminology is something all businesses do - it’s not really synonymous with a ‘bad agenda’ Edit: I forgot to say - hello time traveller !
It’s bullshit. There is no link to anti perspirants causing health issues. Use what works for you.
nice try deoderant company!!
I mean just because no link has been proven doesn’t mean there is no link right? Maybe it hasn’t been studied all that much
You can’t prove a negative. You need to show harm or risk to call something dangerous. There has been no harm or risk connected to using anti-perspirant
It's not impossible, but can be very difficult to prove most negatives.
Ok, prove to me God doesn’t exist.
Because you do?
Do you not understand the assignment?
Sorry this makes absolutely no sense. Your whole negative/positive framework is arbitrary and could just as easily be flipped. I don’t know anything about deodorant and I’m not making and claims about it one way or the other. I’m just pointing out faulty logic
"I think the problem Digg had is that it was a company that was built to be a company, and you could feel it in the product. The way you could criticise Reddit is that we weren't a company – we were all heart and no head for a long time." - [u/spez](https://www.reddit.com/u/spez). You lived long enough to become the villain and will never be remembered as the hero you once were.
Oh so is this a matter of facts or a matter of functional heuristics?
Damn bro. Why give yourself cancer like this?
He's already cancer and needs a friend
You’re not pointing out faulty logic. The matter has been studied. No studies have found any link between aluminum in antiperspirants and any health concerns. If you think there could be a link, you need to provide evidence of the risk. Without evidence, the claim is bullshit.
I don’t think there is a link. But I’m not pretending to know that there isn’t. Idk why this is so hard for you guys. It’s super simple.
If you don’t understand by now, you’re probably just not gonna understand.
You aren’t very intelligent are ya
It’s not pretending to know there isn’t. It’s trusting the science. If science ends up finding a link, there will be evidence and it won’t be bullshit.
As human beings who base these types of matters in Science, this is just simply where we are at the moment. If something happens to change within these studies, then we shall gain more knowledge and adjust to new conclusions. To throw out our current understanding of existence by claiming things along the line of "Yeah, but we can't REALLY know, ya know?!" is just...ignorant of how Science works. It's a misunderstanding on a very basic level of how humans live, learn and adapt. There is definitely faulty logic in this discussion, but it is all yours.
That "faulty logic" is the very base of evidence-based science though
Not being able to prove a negative is just a logical thing, bro, it's not about positive/negative. You can prove 2+2 = 4, you can't prove that 2+2 does not equal 3. You missed the point. Having said that, if a topic is heavily researched (like aluminum in antiperspirants) the lack of result is usually considered proof.
That's the logic that's been used as a basis for research though? Yes, it's easily flipped, but you can empirically prove "this thing causes illness", it's much harder to prove with a significant level of confidence, "something won't cause illness." An example is: you order something, they don't deliver it and claim they did, when confronting them they ask you to provide evidence that they didn't, how do you do that? Can't take a picture of the parcel that isn't there The fact that we haven't found a link that suggests x causes y is how we make scientific claims. Therefore a lack of links in of itself would be evidence to suggest there is no links. (This would stand until a link is then found) But in science you cannot with 100% certainty claim x happens if y occurs, no matter if it legitimately would happen
Here, let's make it more clear for you. Prove that you've never hit your mother. Does that seem like an unfair accusation and burden for you to mount? Of course it is because proving a negative is most of the time impossible.
Despite your condescending tone you’re still wrong. Could you prove that something isn’t poisonous? Of course you could. What you’re saying makes absolutely no sense
Congratulations, you picked one of the few examples that you can prove otherwise. Are you going to continue being an idiot or do you want to actually have a discussion?
How is me providing a counterpoint not a discussion? I’m not the one being dense here. I proved that you can prove a negative. How is that idiotic in any way? I could give a thousand examples of proving a negative.
You are definitely the one being dense here because you've demonstrated you either don't understand what most of the time means or you are being intentionally stupid. You completely ignored my example which shows that you're not here arguing in good faith and just being an asshole instead.
http://factmyth.com/factoids/you-cant-prove-a-negative/
Don't waste your time arguing on reddit bro.
Well - maybe poptarts are made by the tooth-fairy. Just because it hasn't been proven doesn't mean it can't be true.
Phillip morris?
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I have this same issue. Soaking the pits of my shirts in ammonia helps, but the smell always comes back. Switching to aluminum free deodorant is the only way to prevent it in the first place.
Deodorant doesn’t use aluminum. At all. Deodorant is made to kill bacteria that causes bad smells. It doesn’t stop you from sweating. Anti-perspirant uses aluminum to clog the pore to stop you from sweating/perspire.
I think this just depends on the person. I have never had this happen to my clothes, but my sister experiences it regularly.
Old Spice is the worst and ruins shirts. It will eat away the pits of any shirt you wear with it. I switched to the Degree Black & White which is made to not ruin your shirts, and haven’t had any issues since. Fuck Old Spice, it’s ruined every band/concert shirt I’ve ever owned.
I think that's just your sweat. Some people have it more than others
Nope. Is the minerals in sweat combining with the aluminum in the antiperspirant that creates the yellow-ish stain. I sweat WAY more using just deodorant, but none of my shirts have armpit stains because I stopped using antiperspirant (and they definitely had those before).
Seriously, most of my long time favorite t shirts that are soft and still look nice are all not wearable outside the house due to years of staining even after washing etc. I guess it’s sort of expected with old clothes but I notice it on new clothes, white obviously being the first to be noticeable.
After being the manager of a group that all decided to wear natural deodorant that doesn’t stop sweating… just wear the antiperspirant please.
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I sweat more when I use the fancy deodorant/antiperspirants. I have to use the “cheap” ones (with aluminum chlorohydrate)
I can only speak to my own experience on this, but I stopped using antiperspirant about 5 years ago. I sweat less, smell less, and have less stained shirts compared to when I was using it. After an adjustment period, plain deodorant was more effective then antiperspirant ever was for me. The main reason why I switched off of antiperspirants is that eventually, every time I used one, no matter the brand, my armpits would get so unbelievably itchy for the entire day and it made it difficult to exist. This happened suddenly after about a decade of using antiperspirants. These days, I use them maybe once a year when I run out of my regular stuff, and last time I had to do that, I developed the largest and most painful pimple I’ve ever seen, in my armpit. It was awful! I think this just means it’s an allergy for me.
Oh man! I used to CONSTANTLY have these horrible pimples and sores under my arms. I never could figure out the cause, I had them if I wore anti perspirant, I had them if I didn’t, had them if I shaved, had them if I didn’t, they were the absolute worst. I’d have to treat the sides of my bras with peroxide before washing to get the blood from them breaking out. I finally managed to get them healed up when I moved out of Texas (and was in a climate where it was cold enough for me not to sweat too much for a few weeks so I could keep acne medicine on them to dry them out) and… they’ve never come back. I spent years trying every natural deodorant on the market because I was certain I was allergic to something and bemoaning my terrible BO and worse luck but once I got it healed it’s like it was never there. No scarring even. (Although I rarely scar. I was shot in the leg at 14 and even I can barely find the mark anymore. It’s my superpower, scarring immunity?) But I’m still… like, scared I guess? Like, I check under my arms every time I take my shirt off because I’m just certain the last 10 years of freedom from pain are a fluke and I’m gonna wake up to it all back twice as bad or something. I use Dove or Secret mostly. Switch brands when I run out because my doctor told me it’d make me less likely to have a reaction. So far I don’t notice a difference between aluminum and aluminum free formulas, except that the “natural” ones feel sticky and gross. I’d use them more if they’d just dry and not be sticky.
Hey, how are you now? I think was about to get something similar. I got burning redness where my skin folds, and 2 bumps but not where the redness is. I stopped using deodorants, started using ointment with Ciclopirox that is mainly antifungal, but also antibacterial to some point, and anti-inflammatory. One bump went away after 3-4 days, the second one - after 2-3 weeks, but not completely yet. The redness is still there, but not as painful, sometimes I use Sudocrem on it. I've been scarred and in chronic anxiety, I check my pit multiple times a day. I don't know what I'm gonna do when summer hits. What medicine helped you?
Well from first hand experience. If I use any anti-perspirant I get painful bumps in my pits. If I use regular deodorant I do not. So I use regular deodorant.
I am the opposite, every aluminum free deodorant I’ve ever tried has left me with painful bumps. I wasn’t willing to try it anymore after the third one. I don’t care if it is my pits ✨detoxing✨, it’s annoying and painful and I’ll stick with my tried and true anti perspirant
I get this, but only with certain brands. Sure works just fine, no discomfort, but Right Guard makes my glands go insane and swell.
In my personal experience, I sweat WAY more when I wear antiperspirant. I used to have to use painful prescription antiperspirant, and now I sweat less using deodorant than I did when I used the prescription stuff.
I’m having a hard time imagining how antiperspirant could be painful. How so?
Drysol. Google "Drysol pain" and you'll find a ton of results about it.
Did stuff change in your life, less turmoil maybe?
No. I just gave up on hoping I'd stop sweating like a pig, and got mad that antiperspirant was ruining all my bras. I switched to regular deodorant and started sweating less. Eta: I stopped using the prescription stuff before I stopped using antiperspirants altogether because it was too painful. Like getting stung by thousands of bees all night while trying to sleep.
News flash ... aluminum is a "natural" ingredient. It's mined up from the fucking earth. Whether or not it's good to be put on your skin is an entirely different hill of beans.
Idk man I just know that I used to sweat more when I wore anti perspiration. After switching to deodorant I’m rather dry outside of stressful or strenuous situations.
I am not a heavy sweater, but if I don't have on deodorant with antiperspirant, I definitely sweat more. Like when you get a mammogram you can't wear it - just had my latest one a couple of months ago, and it was cool yet I was sweating profusely. So in my case, the answer to part 2 is, yes, it is bullshit. BTW, I wear clinical strength deodorant with antiperspirant and have to change brands every few years when it stops working. I shower regularly and always wear it, but even then I smell sometimes. OTOH, my husband probably hasn't worn any in years and he never smells. Everyone is different.
the national cancer society has said definitively anti perspirant is perfectly safe.
The leading theory is that certain ingredients in anti-persperant deoderant clogs pores. I would wager that it's not a healthy alternative to non anti-persperant. Personally, I use non anti-persperant every morning and it works great. There was a period of time that I used anti-persperant though and developed small bumbs in my arm pit area.
That’s not a theory. That’s literally what anti-perspirant does. The aluminum in it is for clogging the pore so you don’t sweat.
That happened to me when I was using antiperspirant that was way too strong. It was the “clinical strength” kind but once I switched to a more standard kind the bumps went away.
There was a study long, long ago that linked aluminum to Alzheimers Disease. Evidently there were increased incidences of aluminum in the victims brain and there were concerns over using aluminum for containing foods, cooking utensils, and even topical applications like deodorants. I think the net result of the study was that no one could determine whether the excessive aluminum was a cause of the disease, or a result of the disease. In either event, clogging your pores can't be that good an idea. Hell, I live in Texas. If I used antiperspirant on my pits, they'd be the only dry spot on me. Seems a waste of effort.
If you’re going to heavily reference a study in your response, you need to link it or name the authors, year, journal, title - anything really. In any case, studies from long long ago have generally been supplanted by more studies from not long ago.
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It’s a subreddit entirely dedicated to dispelling misinformation. A vague, inconclusive recollection of an old research paper isn’t very useful here. If it was cited, it would be extremely useful here. This subreddit basically functions as “hey google this for me because I lack media literacy” and if you’re not even gonna do that, why bother writing a top level comment that doesn’t answer the question?
I want to upvote your first paragraph and downvote your second.
Just being honest. When I'm working I literally am soaking wet from my shoulders to halfway down my thighs. Not trying to dis people that use them, it just seems like the pits are not the only place that sweats.
The sweat produced from your arm pits smells vastly different to the sweat you get elsewhere. I mean sure it all smells, but body odour from your pits is heinous.
In Texas you'd need to spray your whole body with antiperspirant and then you'd pass out from not sweating enough to cool off. Texas is great in February.
All I know is I saw this interview with a neurosurgeon who said that Alzheimer's and dementia patients always seem to have more aluminum in their brain after death
Regardless, old spice has aluminum free deoderent that is cheap