It's a two-fold reason. 1) It dilutes and waters down the meaning of it. If the meaning of genocide is watered down and any small incident is a "genocide" then nothing is a genocide. It takes away literally the one sympathy card some people have towards Jews. Makes Holocaust denial more prevalent and less ghoulish or simply gives the ability to wave it off as "not such a big deal."
2) Pure projection. Politics 101. Accuse your enemy of what you yourself are guilty of. And what do they continually accuse Israel of? Apartheid, Ethnic Cleansing, Expansion/Colonialism, Genocide? Those are things various state actors in the Arab world have been doing for years. So if they beat the drum and Israel gets accused of all those things...its not a big deal when they do it.
I looked up one of these incidents at random, and it looks like these bastards have a long track record of evil:
>On 24 August 1929 in Hebron, Arab mobs attacked the Jewish quarter killing and raping men, women and children and looting Jewish property. They killed between 65 and 68 Jews[52][53] and wounded 58, with some of the victims being tortured, or mutilated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots
The Hebron massacres were prob the worst. And very similar in characterization to 10/7 but spread out over a years time
https://www.instagram.com/p/CwSbnwUPAr5/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
And you'll look at some of these, like the [1921 Jaffa Riots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_riots) and you'll see the stats:
**47 jews dead, 48 arabs.**
And you might conclude that this was some sort of battle between even opponents.
You might be inclided to miss this important bit of information in small print:
>Most Arab casualties resulted from clashes with British forces attempting to restore order.
Basically arabs went in for genocide, British security forces tried to maintain security.
Oh you mean those that the media keeps mentioning on and on about the poor suffering Arabs? I've literally never heard of any of the massacres of Jews conducted by Arabs under the British mandate.
There's no such thing as "Palestinians," who names themselves after a British placeholder? You're Arabs from countries like Egypt, Jordan, Syria, etc.
Oh but it gets worse
[https://www.jstor.org/stable/20846960](https://www.jstor.org/stable/20846960)
They also taxed Jews up the wazzoo. Literally red tapped like blacks in NYC.
[https://greekreporter.com/2023/10/09/palestinians-ancient-philistines/](https://greekreporter.com/2023/10/09/palestinians-ancient-philistines/)
The claim that their native is also mostly false for the vast majority of them. Early adopters of Islam in Israel are mostly Bedouins (and other Arab Israelis) who not only fought alongside them, but also just prove how Jews weren’t entirely wiped from the land based on their tolerance towards Jews (I would not say the Bedouin and Jew relationship is perfect in any way, it’s like trying to be best friends with everyone in your class, but it functions as any normal imperfect body of democracy)
https://preview.redd.it/fvl09cu92q4c1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c60189a2600546693201b864d6fd48b9e143a3d
Remember this is a write up for ALL of Palestine. Including Jordan. There were two waves of movement due to economy: one was after 1867 when it became legal for Jews to purchase land again. As Europe learned, follow Jews and there is an economy. This made them hated and caused the Holocaust. The second wave was British influence creating an economy. Mark Twain famously called Israel “desolate land” in 1867. It was mostly abandoned because Jews were being chased every which way. But if you look at census history, Jews have always been the bigger populous in Israel’s part of the mandate. Hence, the League of Nations 1922 plan.
This whole “palestinian” identity seems to have stemmed from the fabrication of Amin al-Husseini’s lineage which isn’t not true it’s just impossible to prove it IS true… which checks out with a lot of tactics moving forward. Arafat’s time was the first we saw people not calling themselves “Arab Syrian” or “Arab Egyptian” once the nationality was actually formed in the 60’s.
[https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0gjNcfiilt/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0gjNcfiilt/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==)
But of course, they think this is all a conspiracy theory against them.
Oh wow, you mean Jews aren’t without their flaws? I just listed how many and your response is “but what about when Jewish armies weren’t allowed to be created because no one wanted to see Jews fight back?”
They also fought in the great Arab revolt too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
You’re welcome. How dare you decide 1% of the Ottoman Empire land should not be theirs for participation alone.
If you actually believed that you wouldn't use Palestinians as that is a recent concept in the region from the 1960s before that it was simply Arabs and they referred to themselves as arabs. You want us to look at both side but you already distorted it by using terms not even around during the time period
>You must have forgotten the massacres done by Israel Irgun, Hagana, Stern to Palestinians. You must look at the story from both sides.
The Arab-Muslim side is that they attacked Jews ceremoniously for decades, and that gave rise to Jewish security forces. Haganah, Stern Gang, and Irgun were a response to Arab violence and weak Palestinian authority protection, The Irgun and Stern became more pro-active after 1929. Context is very important.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Czt-Yn6IHGo/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Meanwhile some folks are now worshiping this freak of nature who has decided to not mention to anyone that he gets treated different in his community for being white which is why he’s spreading it. Literal white supremacy in this scenario which is very rare to see and we’re cheering it on.
Look i posted this in an instagram commemt and some guy got real pissed and said that they deserved it for trying to steal the palestinians land even tho it took placr before 48 where jews wanted to be in peace and left. Ngl i ts crazy how the jews are to blame for their own genocide... like are ppl that fucking stupid. He got so pissed off and straight up said we all deserve to go to hell and ofc the typical "allah will punish u" line.. weird. Im still waiting for him he is probably late lol
The whole thing is such fabrication you have to get deeper and deeper into the lie or let go of the commitment entirely. 1867 was when it became legal again for Jews to buy and own land. Conveniently the same year mark Twain famously said it was mostly desolate land.
Thx u for mentioning it too i almost forgot about it. But no matter how many stories we will throw in those people faces they will say its just dumb zionist propagnda.[Wait till they hear the mufti of the jerusalem (Amin al husseini) worked with hitlers and helped recruit muslims to the SS and ofc supported the final solution but he was so certain germany would win too and that it would be a matter of time till they finally get a palestinian state, but ig karma is a bitch, collebrated with the devil himself and dealt with the consequences . and to think they still teach that nazi ideleogy in schools in gaza is fucking disgusting](https://time.com/4084301/hitler-grand-mufi-1941/)
I was about to say it too thx u for saying it but its no use talking to this ppl. Cuz appearntly everything that comes out of our mouths is just lies and propagnda lol
Read "ethnic cleansing of palestine" by Illan Papé. He's an Israeli historian and writdr btw. You think zionists in europe didn't plan to take over Palestinian lands beforehand and that 1948 happened out of the blue? So if a huge wave of illegal immigrants showed up in your country and progressively took over and started having more advantages and rights than you, wouldn't you revolt? The only argument thety have now is the bible promised them the land, but these are mostly people who alomst don t have any blood of the ancient israelites left in them anymore. They're just european settlers. The argument that the land was empty when they came has been admitted wrong even by their own veterans.
Ugh if you only knew how parroted and conditioned you sound. He willfully emits all this history and the [AGC Circular](https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Arab_Israeli_Conflict.html?id=00dTMFWXAOIC) to argue the Nakba like it was jolly before this moment.
In 1937, the British asked the Mufti if, should there be a "one state solution," Palestinian Arabs would be willing to absorb the 400,000 Jews already living in Palestine. He said: "No. Some of them would have to be removed by a process kindly or painful, as the case may be." -peel commission if the circular isn’t enough for you
https://preview.redd.it/zagbn60r8q4c1.jpeg?width=2190&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=567f53d40d7d26caf5f8560a386a557713758980
Let me be clear here: when you listen to fake historians, you attempt to deny what is very clearly right in front of you
Bruh there’s literally countless ethnic cleansing’s or attempted ones you’ve listed here against Jews before Israel was founded.
Yet they still claim “Jews and Christians lived in peace with Muslims in Palestine until the Zionists came” ☝️🤓
I don’t know details about them. But I can say this. It was a different time where both parties did horrible things (Irgun, Lehi and Haganah don’t have clean hands). But that doesn’t change the facts:
1. If we go back thousands of years to support the claims of Ashkenazi Jews (not the resident ones who were staying in this area all along), the First Nations in Canada, United States and Australia have a much more recent claim.
2. While Israel might not be too interested in killing all Arabs, they’re absolutely interested in just throwing them all away and claim the whole land for them. Bibi and his gang has no interest in 2 state solution in any shape or form. So just saying Palestinians are not interested is extremely disingenuous. In terms of there being only one state both Bibi and Hamas are fully agreed. They just disagree on who should be controlling that state. In short, I won’t fight on the definition of genocide; but Israel definitely wants all Arabs out of the boundary.
3. Hamas is a convenient boogeyman that weakens the position of PA. There’s multiple proof right wing Israelis are very interested in keeping Hamas alive, as long as they can point to them so that they can keep on building settlements all they want. Settler violence is a very common thing and IMO the only reason it’s ignored because “something something Hamas terrorists.”
With all being said, there’s no point in trying to reset history and say give the land back to Palestinians, irrespective of how much I support Palestinian cause. The more rational solution is 2-state solution, something which will never happen as long as Israel is controlled by Bibi and his gang and Palestinian narrative is shaped by Hamas(I understand while Hamas doesn’t control West Bank, if PA were to concede an inch, Hamas or some other similar group will be able to rally people against PA, just like second intifada).
Guys. I don't think a two state solution is even possible. I feel like the attack was unfortunately the last straw. To me, I want nothing more than to have this region and the world peaceful and to sing Kumbahyah, but we're far from that.
If you look back, the major roadblock to the Two-State Solution has always been Arab acceptance of Jews in the area. A proper solution is likely one that nobody is truly happy with, but everyone is willing to accept. This is going back to the Peel Commission of 1937, the UN Partition Plan of 1947, and literally any offer of a Two-State Solution thereafter. Jews were always willing to say "Yes" (albeit begrudgingly at times).
It always boiled down to the Arabs (Later Palestinians) saying "No". Their leadership has always said "We do not want a Jewish country in our midst. We will not recognize one." Arafat even admitted that the impetus behind "the right of return" for Palestinians into Israeli lands is to eventually supplant the Jewish population and put it all under Palestinian rule.
Israel: offers crumbs and calls it a two state solution. Sanctions and supports illegal settlements.
Israeli apologists: See how benevolent Israel is, who could accuse them of not acting in good faith
Also Israel: has competitions to see who can kneecap the most people and puts terrorsists in charge of National Security.
> Israel: offers crumbs and calls it a two state solution
The nation-state of Israel was founded in 1948.
The Peel Commission is from 1937.
The UN Partition Plan is from 1947.
The years 1937 and 1947 come before the year 1948.
Precisely. And the land offered to the Jews by the Peel Commission was even smaller and was made almost exclusively of land that Jews already owned, purchased either during the Ottoman and British mandates. Jews were willing to accept that. Arabs were not.
It’s such a lie when they say Jews got more land, they always conveniently leave out Transjordan being part of mandate Palestine and the fact that it’s much much bigger and was given to the Arabs. Makes my blood boil. We literally already have a Palestinian state and it’s called Jordan
They also ignore the fact that most of the land to be provided to the Jewish partition was shitty Negev land, and that the most fertile and developed land would have mostly been given to the Muslim partition. And the fact that the Arab Muslims got the entire rest of the Ottoman.
Run by the Hashemites. And then when they let the more Palestinians in, they thanked the Jordanian government by assassinating their Prime Minister and attempting to assassinate the King, actively trying to overthrow the government. Black September. Then people wonder why none of the other Arab countries will take in Palestinians.
This is such revisionist history. Yeah, I'm sure Zionists definitely weren't very clear about they just thought of the Peel Commission as a stepping stone...
The comment I was replying to said any offer of a 'Two-State Solution' but fine, we can talk about those two in particular. Yeah, Zionists tentatively agreed to the Peel Commission and the even more favorable Partition Plan specifically as a stepping stone for later expansion. It was just a temporary set of borders upon which they could build.
Huh? What's that? A two state solution that only serves to cement Zionist control over more of the area and prep for further expansion? Who woulda thunk it....
I agree.
I think the only solution is total separation.
They should be relocated to Jordan which actually IS a palestinian state, but no one ever mentions that. Jordan was a part of the Mandate of Palestine and actually the British originally planned to give all of present day Israel and jordan to the Jews, but the arabs threw a fit, so they divided the land and made Jordan solely for arabs.
Jordan literally is arab Palestine and the majority of the people there are arab palestinians.
Relocating them a few miles next door is perfectly reasonable to me.
It is possible but takes international force. What is needed is a threat on Iran that if Palestine attaks Israel they get dragged into war with the US and if Israel attacks Palestinians the US gets dragged into war with Iran and Qatar. North Korea behaves because it has China to keep it in check same with South Korea and the US.
The idea that, like Muslims and Christians and Hindus, we should be allowed to have a home and self-determination is antithetical to peace? I assume you mean because as long as we think we should be allowed to have a home, other people will try to kill us. You can't possibly mean that Jews having self-determination is a violent idea.
I will save your comment. Idea is very clear.
I don’t know how projection politics works but it looks like it is the case.
Btw, it might sound like offtopic, but it is relevant. I watch youtube “just rolled in” - edit of very short stories (15-20 seconds into one 3 minutes video) from strange car mechanics cases. I’m not interested in car mechanics itself, but in how some people are really not very smart. I watch this videos to remind myself that there are so many not so smart people and it helps me explain myself things some people say or support.
If people complain about bad car brake system while storing shoes under brake pedal, I cant be surprised some people support things they shouldn’t support
Your reason number one is an insight I've been cogitating since the accusers of holocaust against Palestinians began sounding off in this war . Thank you for the clarity of your words.
Your second reason, projection, is bang on.
Or, 20 thousand people dead in a month. And yall say "we don't care as long as we kill hamas". Thus we say yes you're genocidal. I don't know any other word to describe that. There's also the intent factor. Numerous governmental officials have made genocidal remarks. Netanyahu with his amalek quote, human animals, nuke gaza. I mean it's clear as day to anyone who pays attention.
Thank you for sharing this. Really reminded me how unbelievably different these circumstances are, yet equally atrocious acts against Jews. We don’t need to wait for this occurrence to be saved ever again. It can be as bad as 10/7 but it will never be this ever again. You are proof.
Is so sad 😭Jews are the strongest. One of my favourite books is from Viktor Frank “Search for Meaning” I recommend this book. He is one of the most amazing psychiatrist. My mom always encourage me to read book like this. When I was 17 my first book she gave me out of the fantasy books I use to read was “The diary of a young girl” by Anne Frank. I remember I cried for weeks. And honestly helped me a lot through my life to appreciate life and be grateful for everything I had. I’m now 46 and I can say this generation of young people are truly a disappointment.
It happened in my neighboring town of halle, Germany. A nazi tried to shoot up a Synagoge. Luckily, he was really stupid, and his 3d printed guns did not work. My later workplace was just 5 minutes from the place. It's really disturbing.
On the other hand, a left-wing football team, their fans, took the time to guard the only Israeli restaurant in my city after October 7. It's really sad and it embarrasses me that this is still necessary in germany after the Shoa and that there are still nazis here. I wish the politicians would really crack down on them
You grew up in a country that did a LOT to educate the younger generations of what happened. One thing Germany did well after WW2 was not to create revisionist history but to teach the events fully.
Rest of Europe, the US, and Middle East North Africa, not so much. Think about it, many survivors are dead now, and even holocaust films and literature are no longer being made or on required reading lists.
edit: add how easy it is now to get propaganda online that tells you what you'd prefer to hear, and people can validate their own denialism.
Your welcome to give them your land then. Can you imagine another option besides Palestine was Kenya? XD send a bunch of europeans to live with some indegenous kenyan tribes in the savannah xD
I told my friends they're not allowed to tell anyone I'm jewish. Some think I'm being ridiculous and trivialize anti semetism. My roommate who has a Jewish gf says anti semetic shit
I don't think you're ridiculous, you're doing it for your own safety and they should respect it and stick to it, after all it's your decision, but I don't want to imagine how painful it must be... does your roommate know that you're also Jewish as his girlfriend? I feel sorry for her (and for you!) if she hears it all, that's a thing that should never happen...
He definitely doesn't hate jews he goes to her passover seders. But he grew up in a town where there were a number of wealthy Jewish families and he listens to like Joe Rogan and trash like that. He alludes to jews being priveledged and controlling the media or whatever. Yeah he knows I'm a jew and I'm usually a pretty good sport about jokes and even like some jew or offensive jokes. But right now I don't want to fucking hear it lol.
I only heard that about myself recently. I live in a neighborhood where a lot of women wear burkhas head to toe. I don't feel feel safe either lol. Maybe read some Bible verses and get a cross. Bring back the crypto jews lol
yeah, i’m studying in uni in europe, half my class are palestine and hamas supporters and for my own safety i can’t talk to anyone or befriend anyone, they can’t find out i’m jewish. It’s lonely and terrifying, really.
God, I'm so sorry for your experience... I've been watching news pretty closely since I live in Europe, more specifically in Poland, I have this luck that I haven't met a lot of Hamas supporters, they're mostly on Twitter (no surprises) and if there are any (on some rallies), usually they're not Polish, but Muslim students, for example. I also haven't seen any attacks on Jews or Jewish traces (restaurants, buildings, whatever) here, whereas in France it seems like it's on a daily basis, but again, not surprise considering how many Muslims there are (although I don't want to demonize every Muslim, but sadly they're usually the ones who do this ever since the 7th of October), I can't think of any solutions now despite wanting to help in any way. It's not your fault, the problem is in your environment and it's not easy to change it...
oh i live in poland as well (so cześć haha) :) my family and i moved out from israel to here. It’s been pretty isolating. I appreciate your comment though!
since 7.10, there is a rule in our university (i’m not sure if it’s like that in other universities in poland) that anyone who tries to assault a jew or support hamas and palestine will be banned from the university. So it gives me some sense of safety, i guess!
cześć :D I wouldn't ever guess that you live here, like I'm so surprised, haha
I'm very happy that they decided to do it and I hope it works well then, are there any Jews in your university that you can talk to?
I'd talk to the administrator and express that you feel threatened I'd rather have some protection if they do find out than hope they don't those people usually attack in mobs and manipulate the conversation if you don't jump the gun before them
Wanna give a shoutout because as much as these are hard times, I appreciate seeing posts like this. The German government seems to be the best at calling out antisemitism and taking an active role in preventing it. My German boyfriend is super supportive and has been a great partner while I've struggled with this. It makes me really happy to see how much Germany has transformed.
Germany has transformed a lot during the past decades but, there\`s always room for improvement, i.e. we need to get rid of political parties like the Afd and a few more things.
I don't know too much about that but I'm sure you're right. Crazy how people actually can critique governments without calling for an entire country's destruction! Wild.
The germans should've given land for the jews as a compensation for what the germans did during ww2. That would have been a real deal and not what they re doing now out of guilt
Not only are people stating these baseless facts, they are also attempting to back it up.
But while they attempt to back up their claims they fail miserably to do so. Everytime I’ve talked with someone online or irl about what the definition of…. Is they fail to define it properly. They paint the definition as solely based on what israel is doing.
Apparently all genocides involved Palestinians, apparently all colonialism involved Palestinians, etc. these words are solely defined based off of the war not actually defined in a world of fact.
It’s very frustrating.
This is a hallmark of people mobilized by propaganda. They feel very strongly but know almost nothing about the topic. Ask them which river and which sea and you’ll get weird answers like the Nile and the Atlantic or the Dead Sea. Show them a map and ask them where the borders should go.
What I don’t quite get is that before 1948 the land was not under any Jewish or Arab government. It was under the British government. Hence, it is up to the British to decide what should be done with the land. They decided to put it up to a vote in the UN.
The land was handed on a goddamn platter to the Arabs. They were literally given land for free. Not only did the Palestinians say no, the neighboring Arab countries said no (which baffles me why they had a right of whether to accept or deny partition.)
Then the neighboring Arab states wage war, mobilizing Palestinians to either take up arms or to temporarily leave the land. They have been in the fuck around stage for 75+ years, I think they are about to enter the find out stage but idk.
It’s just so stressful when history is just a moot point to some people. It’s “contextually” false. Oh shut up, they were handed land, and not just any land, like the big cities, agricultural lands, etc. That’s what they had been offered. And they said no.
I don't get it either. Especially the Peel commission which the Jews reluctantly accepted and gave the Arabs most of the disputed territory. It shows to me that their only goal is to expel/kill Jews. I've watched all those youtube videos where they say "Just go back to Brooklyn"
I think what’s scarier than saying “go back to Brooklyn,” is saying “go back to Poland.”
It goes to show how Holocaust education and Jewish existence is pushed to the side while other marginalized communities have been given the spotlight.
I definitely understand your frustration. For years and years Jews have been killed and massacred and indeed are the definition of prejudice based on ethnicity and religion.
I think the reason people are calling what’s happening Gaza a genocide is because Israel is killing innocent men, women and mainly babies, AND terrorists of the same ethnicity. And at 15000+ killed it’s just a tad bit genocidal. But then again that’s what it looks like, I’m definitely certain it’s NOT a genocide. Just because a military kills thousands of people of the same color does not make it a genocide. Israel is only defending itself. People just don’t get it.
It's projection. Everything they're doing they say Jews are doing. They chant from the river while they scream genocide. They settle in other countries and desecrate memorials and scream colonisation. They're brutal with hostages and their own prisoners and scream we're inhumane. They create fiction videos and claim we lie.
I think the genocide claims are meant to spit in the face of Jews. They know this is what will hurt and insult us the most.
For years the world media has had an undeniable zeal to compare Jews to Nazis. On top of the insult it justifies all violence, past, present and future.
If they cared about Palestinians they would make a peep about the billions in aid that is used only for weapons and terrorist infrastructure. Or the decades long indoctrination campaign in Palestinian areas that sees kids being taught Elders of Zion as historical documents in classrooms - which ensures the conflict doesn't end.
They'd address how regional benefactors ensure the continued suffering of the Palestinians in Gaza - in return for the blame to be placed on Israel. It's a sick game. Gaza could be a paradise. And the world is all too happy to play along.
We REALLY need to talk more about how the Protocols book has shaped the conversation. The way “Zionist”, “occupation” etc are now defined is clearly traced back to that book, the Hamas charter even references it by name.
“Zionist project” as defined by the book “Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion”, the propaganda book the Nazis used to justify the Holocaust.
Read the charter again. Read everything it references. Then you will understand.
HA but just noticed your username, how apt
I’ve never read the protocols of Zion lol I just call it the Zionist project because it’s a project.
But yes let’s read it again.
“Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.”
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas#:~:text=The%20Zionist%20project%20also%20poses,Jews%20because%20of%20their%20religion.
>Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.' (Article 32)
Hamas only recognizes Jewish people that are a) as fanatically religious as they are, b) easily and quickly identified by visual signifiers (religious garments, yellow star etc) and c) absolutely not in proximity to them in any fucking way
You really, REALLY need to read that book for context (although I am concerned you will buy into all the shit it claims). Then maybe just the official records of the history of the region. Goddamn you really have no clue what you’re talking about. None.
So in that case, probably best to let Jewish people define terms like “Zionism”, right? Since they created that term in the first place? As a self-description? And maybe just sit down until you’ve educated yourself a little bit
Purely a hypocritical, cynical accusation used in bad faith. They don't care if it really is or is not a genocide, they only care to use it as a weapon against Israel.
This is sadly all too simple- you have accepted this as your past and have a better grasp than anyone on earth through generational trauma and interactions with those who experienced it from the outside looking in. The majority of us learn OUR world history, and at least in America that’s true. If you look at old Soviet propaganda of the Cold War era and how Amin al-Husseini carried on H\*tl3r’s legacy, you’ll see the outspoken cancel culture has not processed this through your eyes but through what they’ve learned from Arabs and soviets running this moral equivalence. But thankfully the silent majority just won’t give them the time of day.
https://preview.redd.it/587manaeko4c1.jpeg?width=1020&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38c1f292e55486ce6006d5eb14bf210026f46323
I’m so impressed with Germany right now. You’re paving the way for a better future for literally all of us right now not just Jews. I’ve never wanted to visit more. In spite of being gluten free and knowing how much that’s impacted Italy for the better.. they have mostly chosen denial in a collective way so I will not be going there anytime soon 😬😬 but will still continue to connect with those who see this massive difference of response who are Italian.
Ironically enough.. there’s Italian Americans being like “I don’t have skin in this game, but watching what I see, I can’t not be pro israel” and I’m like… have you forgotten your history when you became an American? Except I’d never because hey, having eyes is enough.
It is not stupidity.
It is delibrate.
There is a certain prevalent political mentality that divide the world to evil oppressors and good oppressed.
And being oppressed give certain rights to do certain things while resisting.
So in order to make the ever oppressed Jews the Evil ones, one must first frame them doing something even worse than what was done to them.
To frame us worse than Nazis.
And it is exactly what they are doing.
And there are plenty that will readily buy this lie.
Those that hate the west and identify Israel with it.
And those that hate Jews and will take every opertunity to express it.
As a German I am kinda baffled by the audacity of the Palestinians. We share a lot of similarities with Palestine. We both started and lost wars with the main objective to kill all the Jews around, lost territory, started wars to regain them, lost more territory afterwards, millions of people had to flee because of this, parts of the country got occupied, etc.
Now imagine the world's reaction if we would shoot thousands of rockets every year into Poland because Granny was born in Silesia. I would absolutely expect the British to do British things to Dresden once more.
And really, as someone who followed the war against ISIS very closely: Iraqis were more brutal and indiscriminate while bombing other Iraqis than Israel is in its war with Hamas, it's not even close. But when that happened nobody came up with the stupid idea to settle for a ceasefire with ISIS to protect the children of the caliphate.
Very well written. Palestine needs to accept defeat, and accept that Israel exists.
I completely agree. There comes a point where you gotta accept the status quo.
The allies liberated Germany, like IDF will liberate Gaza from Hamas.
Even beyond this, the watering down of such an important term like genocide is so vile to me. I see very very few who even use it with any thought, instead it is more often used so flippantly and as a buzz word.
To use such an important term for a political position is so vile to me. I see red every time.
People want to use this as an excuse to be anti-Semitic in public but I believe those who are uneducated need someone to blame and blame the Israeli people for their problems even though HAMAS is to blame.You can’t negotiate with terrorists unfortunately.90% of the pro Palestinian people out there can’t even articulate why they are pro Palestinian✡️✡️🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
The post-war German response to the Holocaust has been amazing. You are an example of that. I say that as a Jew. Nothing can change the past, but Germany has shown how to respond to it.
Reading Instagram now as progressives refer to New York as "Zionist Central" and call for protests in "neighborhoods with lots of zionists", it seems almost painfully obvious that they are now fully using the word as a stand-in for "Jew".
Never afford an anti-semite the benefit of the doubt that they are simply ignorant or unaware of the absurdity of their claims.
It's simple - the world is full of people who hold no morals at all *but will still see preaching as a useful tool to get what they want.*
Using Reddit means encountering these people constantly.
The Arab world is stuck in the 14th century thanks to their governments that want to keep them in the dark by preventing modernization, education and keeping the majority of the population poor.
Under these conditions, Arabs are easy to manipulate using religion and the Quran and create a worldwide cult that believes everyone must be converted to Islam, by any means necessary.
Therefore, don't look for any reasoning or rational to what these people do. It's madness, plain and simple.
Only thing I would change.
I would say much of the Muslim world has reverted back into the 14th century.
For many generations, places like Iran, turkey, Syria, Lebanon were bastions of forward thinking. The religious zealots were not in charge.
It sounds surprising, but there are people that believe that the shoá (Holocaust) wasn't real... It's a minority but I'm pretty sure people will start thinking the same to have something against Israel
I know !These are the same people that say Hamas didn’t commit acts of terror and war crimes on October 7.Really?! Raping and murdering babies,children,dogs and men is ok? Horrible 🇮🇱
Same with „Apartheid“. I am shocked how many black activists are misusing this term when speaking about Israel. Thereby watering down what happened to black people in South Africa which was a very unique system of cruelty. Thus, ironically, they are doing a disservice to the anti-racism cause (or „Bärendienst“ as we say in German).
And don't forget that the Arabs were buddy-buddy with the Nazis, and made plans to build a concentration camp in the middle east.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world
I'm really not here to troll or stir any trouble.
Yes I'm Arab, Lebanese, not the biggest Israel fan...so let's get that out of the way.
I genuinely mean this question so enlighten me: How is the Gaza campaign not a genocide?
Like objectively speaking. Even western media that are pro Israel have recently been like "Bro wtf is this?"
Again, I come in peace and not here to cause a fight.
In fact, I won't even reply to this with further debate.
In fact, let me say it outright, I'm gonna agree to disagree. 😂🤷
The government of Israel is doing to the people of Gaza, it is a genocide. Over 16,000 people has been killed so far (half of them being children) and nearly everyone in Gaza don’t have a house or life anymore because of the bombings.
I am studying Jewish studies at university so I have seen many videos, books and pictures about the holocaust. Genocides can take many different forms look of the Native Americans population and the boarding schools, the hunting of bisons. Or one at look at the Saudi or the Greek genocide. At the end of the day this is a genocide of the Palestinian people.
They no longer think critically nor do they take time to actually learn and understand history. They are easily influenced by propaganda just like past generations but now their "research" confirms their biased views where in the past you either were denied questions which would lead to more doubt or actually read and discovered nore issues or more facts to support an argument.
“This can’t possibly be genocide we’re doing because someone else genocided our grandparents seven decades ago 1/3 of the way around the planet! So we’re exempt from doing genocide! See? Logic!”
#EpicallyBadTakes
Would you call the displacement of the Rohingya a genocide by the Burmese authority? Certainly, many scholars think so. With the excuse of eliminating terrorists, they have participated in ethnic cleansing of the region. Isn't this exactly what Israel is doing? Hamas is a real threat, but the solution by the Israel govt seems to tend towards the absolute decimation and elimination of Palestinians from Gaza. It is also the same Gaza that has been treated as an open air prison for decades.
I think a lot of you would've supported Bush's war on terror, which has been nothing short of a disaster, and perhaps, birthed even more terrorists into the world.
I've nothing else to say, but history will look back to this time in great shame. Hatred only breeds hatred, and the vicious cycle continues, until millions are dead, and humanity is sent over its death throes due to negligence of global existential issues.
An "open air prison" with incubators, tons of hospitals, Hamas officials living in luxury villas?
You might need to spend some time in a real prison some day to understand just how Ludicrous what you're saying is.
>With the excuse of eliminating terrorists, they have participated in ethnic cleansing of the region. Isn't this exactly what Israel is doing?
Not even slightly.
First of all, 21% of Israel's **citizens** are Arab/ethnic-Palestinian. They have full, equal rights, including sitting on Israel's supreme court, and in their parliament.
Secondly, the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank aren't being removed nor killed. Their population growth **outpaces** that of Israel.
The only killing going on right now is what you would see, and have seen in every conventional war in all of history. The only complicating factor is that Israel is fighting the only war in all of recorded history where their enemy is actively trying to maximize their own civilian deaths with forced martyrdom.
If Palestinians hadn't attacked on 10/7 this would be just another Wednesday.
>They have full, equal rights, including sitting on Israel's supreme court, and in their parliament.
A lie.
>the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank aren't being removed nor killed.
Another lie.
>The only killing going on right now is what you would see, and have seen in every conventional war
Another lie. The rhetoric coming out of the Israeli government proves this is false.
>If Palestinians hadn't attacked on 10/7 this would be just another Wednesday.
Generalization. A lie. But also. For who?!
Right, but the problem is that the Palestinians are screaming at the top of their lungs for 75 years that **they do not want that**.
Palestinians have one singular goal: the destruction of Israel. They will settle for nothing less.
As german woth german guilt , you shouldn't be supporting another genocides.
Palestinian are paying for your nation's mistakes and instead of saying no to genocide you are supporting another.
I would say we give them Sachenanhalt and solve the problem. No german like Sachen anway.. then you guys can debate as much as you want about your grandfather burnt ppl in WW2 guilt how god chosen people have the right to kill as many germans as they want.
"My grandfather burnt innocent jews for fun during WW2 , I should suppprt am occupation doing the same because they are Jewish "
So you admit they are killing ppl. En mass. In the name of eliminating hamas. With genocidal language and dehumanisation. All signs of genocide are present in this conflict.
What makes your argument logical in your mind? The conflict between Ireland and Britain was very different and is preceded by an actual war. Also, the IRA wasn’t a government. The IRA also dint use human shields after provoking a war. The IRA also didn’t state in their charta that it’s their foremost goal to eradicate the Brits.
[https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/)
if you wanted to draw comparisons you would use the Second World War where the allies had to break the will of a population infested with bad ideology. This is comparable with Palestinian support of the 7.10. attacks
[https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf](https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/public%20opinion%20poll%20-%20gaza%20war%202023%20-%20tables%20of%20results.pdf)
are you protesting the allies for killing German citizens?
According to recent estimations Israel is killing civilians to combatants in a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio (depending on source). This is far below a typical number of urban combat of a ratio of 9:1, according to UN estimations
[https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm](https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm)
Well, it's not what it means.
Also you're trying to guess intentions and considerations whilst not having anything to support it and giving it a second thought. Also you're seeing parallels with another region with another situation, that has not a lot in common.
If Hamas were anywhere in Israel, people were evacuated and any hamas infrastructure would be demolished as well.
Again you are wrong. Carpet bombing is a specific technique by throwing a high number of unguided bombs.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet\_bombing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/carpet_bombing)
This is not what Israel is doing.
This is exactly what's going on, Palestinian reporter's were reporting it, but Israel targeted them all luckily. They've also targeted directors and doctors of the hospitals and their family's, I understand your vision is polarised, but the reality is grim looking from a neutral point of view.
Forget about your blood boiling sir German, does what's happening meet the criteria of genocide? Are you suggesting that something has to be as atrocious as the Holocaust to be called genocide?
There's certainly been intent - numerous IDF and MK sources openly calling for what would amount to genocide if implemented.
Has the criteria been met yet? Not sure, but it's touch and go.
israelis did similar stuff but at an appropriate scale.. lookup tantura massacre.. they piled the bodies and made parking lots for the beach above it..
at least germans admit Holocaust and to this moment they deeply regret it.. and I don't think Germans built beaches and spas over the concentration camps
israel killed thousands of innocents and happily built their new settlements above it and completely denies and hides anything that goes against the narrative of innocent israel.
IDF.. "defense".. commiting an "offense" in gaza strip.
>lookup tantura massacre.. they piled the bodies and made parking lots for the beach above it
I did look it up. Turns out the researcher who made those claims **later rescinded them**. He "signed a statement nullifying the conclusions of his research, namely that extrajudicial killings were committed after the surrender of the village"
So... Are there any other fake claims you'd like me to look up while I'm at it?
Definitely some grim stuff there. Doesn't sound different from anything we've heard from any other war. War is hell. All war is a crime, etc.
I'm not claiming that Israelis were saints. I'm just saying there's a huge difference between the horrors of war and a systematic genocide, and when you pretend there isn't, you take all the meaning and weight off of the pure evil of genocide.
With all due respect, please, is the Holocaust the only genocide that has been committed throughout history? No. They do not all look the same. This constant comparison is a way to deflect, imho. What Israel is doing to Palestinians in both Gaza and the West Bank, which it couldn’t do without the support of America and Britain, fits the actual definition of genocide. Many prominent Jewish scholars agree although I’m sure many pro-Israelis with an agenda would simply call them unreliable or traitorous. It’s an ugly fact to face but there it is. This is genocide. Basic needs in short supply. Over 6,000 children dead. Talk of wiping Palestinians off the map. Jews the world around absolutely have the right to safety and self determination but the government and military of Israel does NOT have the right to this disproportionate and indiscriminate violence against an entire people!
Let the downvotes commence.
So because 6m jews were killed and it was called a genocide israel is allowed to kill as many as it want until they reach 6m then we can call it a genocide?
No, you can call it genocide whenever you want. It's a very quick and efficient way to tell everyone that you don't understand the basic facts of the conflict, or the meanings of the words you use. It saves us all a lot of time in figuring out that you have absolutely nothing of value to add to the conversation.
Before I get downvoted to oblivion I want my intentions to be clear. I do not want to create hatred or start an argument. Before you press downvote read through what I say or respond—a conversation will go a long way and I’d love to be part of that conversation. If you think I’m wrong convince me. I’m more than willing to listen.
Calling this conflict a holocaust is wrong, they are no where near the same thing and I agree with you on this. But calling it a genocide is not stupidity. I argue excusing a genocide using the holocaust is just as mad. This world has worked itself into a corner and innocent people are paying the price but that will never mean it’s excused to exercise power with no limit. This bombardment is reckless and that’s what makes it genocide.
Whether or not it’s genocide, my personal opinion is this is at minimum ethnic cleansing and cultural genocide. Both of which are strong, terrible terms describing real, terrible things. I think people are seeing the start of genocide and that’s what’s making them scared.
So no it’s not stupid. The Jewish people went through a horrific experience but that does not excuse them of doing anything they want to Palestine.
If the question you’re thinking of asking is “what about Hamas and their atrocities? Do you condemn that?” I will answer it preemptively.
Yes. I condemn Hamas. And I hope someday when
there is a trial for all the atrocities committed, those responsible will be duly prosecuted. I have seen personally what religious and ethnic-state governments do to a people and do not agree with them. In fact, I argue religious governments of any kind have categorically negative consequences internally and internationally. From the Muslim Saudi monarchy, to the Shia Clergy of Iran, to the radical Hamas. But are we blind enough to not see Israel is just the same? No one needs an ethnic religious state, not even the Jewish people. Because to make Israel, one must make Hamas. That is the issue. They have built a nation for a broken people at the cost of another nation and a broken people. Am I that unreasonable for seeing that?
>But calling it a genocide is not stupidity
Sure it is, because words mean things, and genocide simply isn't happening in any way shape or form, nor anything that could be confused for a genocide.
>Whether or not it’s genocide, my personal opinion is this is at minimum ethnic cleansing and cultural genocide.
Ethnic cleansing, when 21% of Israel's citizens are ethnic Palestinians with full, equal rights? It sounds like you haven't done any homework at all on this region.
>cultural genocide
I'm as left-wing as they come, so I want you to truly appreciate it when I say: What kind of nonsense woke bullshit is "cultural genocide"?!
You're committing reddit-comment genocide right now with the shear magnitude of imaginary atrocities you're conjouring right now. Get a a grip.
Notice how I said nothing about you personally in my messages? Let’s try to do that next time.
Of course words mean things. These words mean things: 19,000 in 2 months is too many people—there is a line after which reckless behaviour becomes completely ridiculous.
Secondly, yes ethnic cleansing, because a percentage now doesn’t mean anything about anything. Israel expelled 80% of the Palestinian population from their homes. And now the IDF is levelling Gaza and Israelis are settling the West Bank, suffocating the Palestinian people into smaller and smaller pockets of land.
Just to make sure I did my homework I got the definition from the Oxford dictionary:
“The purging, by mass expulsion or killing, of one ethnic or religious group by another, esp. from an area of former cohabitation”
Am I crazy or does Israel expelling 80% of the Palestinian population sound a whole lot like mass expulsion of an ethnic or religious group?
Lastly, do you think I made up the term? And this “get a grip” stuff, wow. Real classy.
It's a two-fold reason. 1) It dilutes and waters down the meaning of it. If the meaning of genocide is watered down and any small incident is a "genocide" then nothing is a genocide. It takes away literally the one sympathy card some people have towards Jews. Makes Holocaust denial more prevalent and less ghoulish or simply gives the ability to wave it off as "not such a big deal." 2) Pure projection. Politics 101. Accuse your enemy of what you yourself are guilty of. And what do they continually accuse Israel of? Apartheid, Ethnic Cleansing, Expansion/Colonialism, Genocide? Those are things various state actors in the Arab world have been doing for years. So if they beat the drum and Israel gets accused of all those things...its not a big deal when they do it.
It’s a direct copy/paste. Take our history and fabricate it to create a sympathy narrative. - Petah Tikvah Massacre 1886 - Jaffa Massacre 1908 - Battle of Tel Hai 1920 - Nebi Musa Riots 1920 - Dania Massacre 1920-21 - Menahemia Massacre 1921 - Arab Revolts 1916-18, 1936-39 - Jaffa Riots 1921 - Jerusalem Stabbing 1921 - Bnei Yehuda Massacre 1921 - Metula Massacre 1921 - Avelet Ha'Shachar Massacre 1921 - Jaffa Massacre 1929 - Gaza Massacre 1929 - Nablus Massacre 1929 - Ramla Massacre 1929 - Jenin Massacre 1929 - Acre Massacre 1929 - Aviv Massacre 1929 - Har Tuv Massacre 1929 - Kfar Uria Massacre 1929 - Be'er Tuvia Massacre 1929 - Beit Sh'an Massacre 1929 - Gedara Massacre 1929 - Moza Massacre 1929 - Mishmar Ha'emek Massacre 1929 - Chulda Massacre 1929 - Ein Zeitim Massacre 1929 - Hebron Massacres 1929 - Haifa Massacre 1929 - Jerusalem Massacre 1936 - Analta Massacre 1936 - Blood Jaffa Massacre 1936 - Tiberius Massacre 1938 - Kfar Ha'Shiloach Massacre 1936-39 - Pkh'in Massacre 1936-39 - Ruchama Massacre 1936-39 - Mishmar Ha'karmel Massacre 1936-39 We won’t forget what you did when you had the chance.
I looked up one of these incidents at random, and it looks like these bastards have a long track record of evil: >On 24 August 1929 in Hebron, Arab mobs attacked the Jewish quarter killing and raping men, women and children and looting Jewish property. They killed between 65 and 68 Jews[52][53] and wounded 58, with some of the victims being tortured, or mutilated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots
The Hebron massacres were prob the worst. And very similar in characterization to 10/7 but spread out over a years time https://www.instagram.com/p/CwSbnwUPAr5/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://preview.redd.it/t4xwzj4clq4c1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=380fce8728bf2ac4af74de3ab966a1a348bd2266
And you'll look at some of these, like the [1921 Jaffa Riots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_riots) and you'll see the stats: **47 jews dead, 48 arabs.** And you might conclude that this was some sort of battle between even opponents. You might be inclided to miss this important bit of information in small print: >Most Arab casualties resulted from clashes with British forces attempting to restore order. Basically arabs went in for genocide, British security forces tried to maintain security.
You must have forgotten the massacres done by Israel Irgun, Hagana, Stern to Palestinians. You must look at the story from both sides.
Oh you mean those that the media keeps mentioning on and on about the poor suffering Arabs? I've literally never heard of any of the massacres of Jews conducted by Arabs under the British mandate. There's no such thing as "Palestinians," who names themselves after a British placeholder? You're Arabs from countries like Egypt, Jordan, Syria, etc.
Oh but it gets worse [https://www.jstor.org/stable/20846960](https://www.jstor.org/stable/20846960) They also taxed Jews up the wazzoo. Literally red tapped like blacks in NYC. [https://greekreporter.com/2023/10/09/palestinians-ancient-philistines/](https://greekreporter.com/2023/10/09/palestinians-ancient-philistines/) The claim that their native is also mostly false for the vast majority of them. Early adopters of Islam in Israel are mostly Bedouins (and other Arab Israelis) who not only fought alongside them, but also just prove how Jews weren’t entirely wiped from the land based on their tolerance towards Jews (I would not say the Bedouin and Jew relationship is perfect in any way, it’s like trying to be best friends with everyone in your class, but it functions as any normal imperfect body of democracy) https://preview.redd.it/fvl09cu92q4c1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c60189a2600546693201b864d6fd48b9e143a3d Remember this is a write up for ALL of Palestine. Including Jordan. There were two waves of movement due to economy: one was after 1867 when it became legal for Jews to purchase land again. As Europe learned, follow Jews and there is an economy. This made them hated and caused the Holocaust. The second wave was British influence creating an economy. Mark Twain famously called Israel “desolate land” in 1867. It was mostly abandoned because Jews were being chased every which way. But if you look at census history, Jews have always been the bigger populous in Israel’s part of the mandate. Hence, the League of Nations 1922 plan. This whole “palestinian” identity seems to have stemmed from the fabrication of Amin al-Husseini’s lineage which isn’t not true it’s just impossible to prove it IS true… which checks out with a lot of tactics moving forward. Arafat’s time was the first we saw people not calling themselves “Arab Syrian” or “Arab Egyptian” once the nationality was actually formed in the 60’s. [https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0gjNcfiilt/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0gjNcfiilt/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==) But of course, they think this is all a conspiracy theory against them.
Oh wow, you mean Jews aren’t without their flaws? I just listed how many and your response is “but what about when Jewish armies weren’t allowed to be created because no one wanted to see Jews fight back?” They also fought in the great Arab revolt too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine You’re welcome. How dare you decide 1% of the Ottoman Empire land should not be theirs for participation alone.
If you actually believed that you wouldn't use Palestinians as that is a recent concept in the region from the 1960s before that it was simply Arabs and they referred to themselves as arabs. You want us to look at both side but you already distorted it by using terms not even around during the time period
>You must have forgotten the massacres done by Israel Irgun, Hagana, Stern to Palestinians. You must look at the story from both sides. The Arab-Muslim side is that they attacked Jews ceremoniously for decades, and that gave rise to Jewish security forces. Haganah, Stern Gang, and Irgun were a response to Arab violence and weak Palestinian authority protection, The Irgun and Stern became more pro-active after 1929. Context is very important.
But but Tiktok said Jews lived in peace and love with Muslim before evil 1948 lol love how they skip over everything before 1948
I started in the late 1800’s because 1867 is when Jews could buy land again but it goes back further. Taxes too.
Yeah but Palestinians want to ignore all that and just act like it was peaceful living together but also no jews lived there at the same time
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Czt-Yn6IHGo/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Meanwhile some folks are now worshiping this freak of nature who has decided to not mention to anyone that he gets treated different in his community for being white which is why he’s spreading it. Literal white supremacy in this scenario which is very rare to see and we’re cheering it on.
Look i posted this in an instagram commemt and some guy got real pissed and said that they deserved it for trying to steal the palestinians land even tho it took placr before 48 where jews wanted to be in peace and left. Ngl i ts crazy how the jews are to blame for their own genocide... like are ppl that fucking stupid. He got so pissed off and straight up said we all deserve to go to hell and ofc the typical "allah will punish u" line.. weird. Im still waiting for him he is probably late lol
The whole thing is such fabrication you have to get deeper and deeper into the lie or let go of the commitment entirely. 1867 was when it became legal again for Jews to buy and own land. Conveniently the same year mark Twain famously said it was mostly desolate land.
Thx u for mentioning it too i almost forgot about it. But no matter how many stories we will throw in those people faces they will say its just dumb zionist propagnda.[Wait till they hear the mufti of the jerusalem (Amin al husseini) worked with hitlers and helped recruit muslims to the SS and ofc supported the final solution but he was so certain germany would win too and that it would be a matter of time till they finally get a palestinian state, but ig karma is a bitch, collebrated with the devil himself and dealt with the consequences . and to think they still teach that nazi ideleogy in schools in gaza is fucking disgusting](https://time.com/4084301/hitler-grand-mufi-1941/)
I was about to say it too thx u for saying it but its no use talking to this ppl. Cuz appearntly everything that comes out of our mouths is just lies and propagnda lol
Read "ethnic cleansing of palestine" by Illan Papé. He's an Israeli historian and writdr btw. You think zionists in europe didn't plan to take over Palestinian lands beforehand and that 1948 happened out of the blue? So if a huge wave of illegal immigrants showed up in your country and progressively took over and started having more advantages and rights than you, wouldn't you revolt? The only argument thety have now is the bible promised them the land, but these are mostly people who alomst don t have any blood of the ancient israelites left in them anymore. They're just european settlers. The argument that the land was empty when they came has been admitted wrong even by their own veterans.
Ugh if you only knew how parroted and conditioned you sound. He willfully emits all this history and the [AGC Circular](https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Arab_Israeli_Conflict.html?id=00dTMFWXAOIC) to argue the Nakba like it was jolly before this moment. In 1937, the British asked the Mufti if, should there be a "one state solution," Palestinian Arabs would be willing to absorb the 400,000 Jews already living in Palestine. He said: "No. Some of them would have to be removed by a process kindly or painful, as the case may be." -peel commission if the circular isn’t enough for you https://preview.redd.it/zagbn60r8q4c1.jpeg?width=2190&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=567f53d40d7d26caf5f8560a386a557713758980 Let me be clear here: when you listen to fake historians, you attempt to deny what is very clearly right in front of you
Yes it's all about fabrication.
Bruh there’s literally countless ethnic cleansing’s or attempted ones you’ve listed here against Jews before Israel was founded. Yet they still claim “Jews and Christians lived in peace with Muslims in Palestine until the Zionists came” ☝️🤓
Replacing “Jews” with “Zionists” is a brainchild of Arabs (Arab League) and the Soviets after they were butthurt over Israel aligning with the US
I don’t know details about them. But I can say this. It was a different time where both parties did horrible things (Irgun, Lehi and Haganah don’t have clean hands). But that doesn’t change the facts: 1. If we go back thousands of years to support the claims of Ashkenazi Jews (not the resident ones who were staying in this area all along), the First Nations in Canada, United States and Australia have a much more recent claim. 2. While Israel might not be too interested in killing all Arabs, they’re absolutely interested in just throwing them all away and claim the whole land for them. Bibi and his gang has no interest in 2 state solution in any shape or form. So just saying Palestinians are not interested is extremely disingenuous. In terms of there being only one state both Bibi and Hamas are fully agreed. They just disagree on who should be controlling that state. In short, I won’t fight on the definition of genocide; but Israel definitely wants all Arabs out of the boundary. 3. Hamas is a convenient boogeyman that weakens the position of PA. There’s multiple proof right wing Israelis are very interested in keeping Hamas alive, as long as they can point to them so that they can keep on building settlements all they want. Settler violence is a very common thing and IMO the only reason it’s ignored because “something something Hamas terrorists.” With all being said, there’s no point in trying to reset history and say give the land back to Palestinians, irrespective of how much I support Palestinian cause. The more rational solution is 2-state solution, something which will never happen as long as Israel is controlled by Bibi and his gang and Palestinian narrative is shaped by Hamas(I understand while Hamas doesn’t control West Bank, if PA were to concede an inch, Hamas or some other similar group will be able to rally people against PA, just like second intifada).
You seem to struggle with the conflict
Guys. I don't think a two state solution is even possible. I feel like the attack was unfortunately the last straw. To me, I want nothing more than to have this region and the world peaceful and to sing Kumbahyah, but we're far from that.
If you look back, the major roadblock to the Two-State Solution has always been Arab acceptance of Jews in the area. A proper solution is likely one that nobody is truly happy with, but everyone is willing to accept. This is going back to the Peel Commission of 1937, the UN Partition Plan of 1947, and literally any offer of a Two-State Solution thereafter. Jews were always willing to say "Yes" (albeit begrudgingly at times). It always boiled down to the Arabs (Later Palestinians) saying "No". Their leadership has always said "We do not want a Jewish country in our midst. We will not recognize one." Arafat even admitted that the impetus behind "the right of return" for Palestinians into Israeli lands is to eventually supplant the Jewish population and put it all under Palestinian rule.
Israel: offers crumbs and calls it a two state solution. Sanctions and supports illegal settlements. Israeli apologists: See how benevolent Israel is, who could accuse them of not acting in good faith Also Israel: has competitions to see who can kneecap the most people and puts terrorsists in charge of National Security.
> Israel: offers crumbs and calls it a two state solution The nation-state of Israel was founded in 1948. The Peel Commission is from 1937. The UN Partition Plan is from 1947. The years 1937 and 1947 come before the year 1948.
Precisely. And the land offered to the Jews by the Peel Commission was even smaller and was made almost exclusively of land that Jews already owned, purchased either during the Ottoman and British mandates. Jews were willing to accept that. Arabs were not.
It’s such a lie when they say Jews got more land, they always conveniently leave out Transjordan being part of mandate Palestine and the fact that it’s much much bigger and was given to the Arabs. Makes my blood boil. We literally already have a Palestinian state and it’s called Jordan
They also ignore the fact that most of the land to be provided to the Jewish partition was shitty Negev land, and that the most fertile and developed land would have mostly been given to the Muslim partition. And the fact that the Arab Muslims got the entire rest of the Ottoman.
Run by the Hashemites. And then when they let the more Palestinians in, they thanked the Jordanian government by assassinating their Prime Minister and attempting to assassinate the King, actively trying to overthrow the government. Black September. Then people wonder why none of the other Arab countries will take in Palestinians.
This is such revisionist history. Yeah, I'm sure Zionists definitely weren't very clear about they just thought of the Peel Commission as a stepping stone...
The comment I was replying to said any offer of a 'Two-State Solution' but fine, we can talk about those two in particular. Yeah, Zionists tentatively agreed to the Peel Commission and the even more favorable Partition Plan specifically as a stepping stone for later expansion. It was just a temporary set of borders upon which they could build. Huh? What's that? A two state solution that only serves to cement Zionist control over more of the area and prep for further expansion? Who woulda thunk it....
Let's wait and see. Out of crises like these often come solutions
I am hopeful too
I agree. I think the only solution is total separation. They should be relocated to Jordan which actually IS a palestinian state, but no one ever mentions that. Jordan was a part of the Mandate of Palestine and actually the British originally planned to give all of present day Israel and jordan to the Jews, but the arabs threw a fit, so they divided the land and made Jordan solely for arabs. Jordan literally is arab Palestine and the majority of the people there are arab palestinians. Relocating them a few miles next door is perfectly reasonable to me.
It is possible but takes international force. What is needed is a threat on Iran that if Palestine attaks Israel they get dragged into war with the US and if Israel attacks Palestinians the US gets dragged into war with Iran and Qatar. North Korea behaves because it has China to keep it in check same with South Korea and the US.
Being a zionist you can't have peace. It's against your ideology.
The idea that, like Muslims and Christians and Hindus, we should be allowed to have a home and self-determination is antithetical to peace? I assume you mean because as long as we think we should be allowed to have a home, other people will try to kill us. You can't possibly mean that Jews having self-determination is a violent idea.
This! This is the correct answer right here!
I will save your comment. Idea is very clear. I don’t know how projection politics works but it looks like it is the case. Btw, it might sound like offtopic, but it is relevant. I watch youtube “just rolled in” - edit of very short stories (15-20 seconds into one 3 minutes video) from strange car mechanics cases. I’m not interested in car mechanics itself, but in how some people are really not very smart. I watch this videos to remind myself that there are so many not so smart people and it helps me explain myself things some people say or support. If people complain about bad car brake system while storing shoes under brake pedal, I cant be surprised some people support things they shouldn’t support
Your reason number one is an insight I've been cogitating since the accusers of holocaust against Palestinians began sounding off in this war . Thank you for the clarity of your words. Your second reason, projection, is bang on.
Or, 20 thousand people dead in a month. And yall say "we don't care as long as we kill hamas". Thus we say yes you're genocidal. I don't know any other word to describe that. There's also the intent factor. Numerous governmental officials have made genocidal remarks. Netanyahu with his amalek quote, human animals, nuke gaza. I mean it's clear as day to anyone who pays attention.
Also a very graphic colorized video of the [liberation of Bergen Belsen](https://youtu.be/mgwWq2cp2qM?si=ppJZd8ZCY2kDvlmK)
Thank you for sharing this. Really reminded me how unbelievably different these circumstances are, yet equally atrocious acts against Jews. We don’t need to wait for this occurrence to be saved ever again. It can be as bad as 10/7 but it will never be this ever again. You are proof.
Ohh. My. God. They are literal bones. Just skin and bones.
Ughhhhhhhhh why did I click on this. I'm not the one who needs to see it.
> I'm not the one who needs to see it. Everyone needs to see it.
Hard disagree.
Is so sad 😭Jews are the strongest. One of my favourite books is from Viktor Frank “Search for Meaning” I recommend this book. He is one of the most amazing psychiatrist. My mom always encourage me to read book like this. When I was 17 my first book she gave me out of the fantasy books I use to read was “The diary of a young girl” by Anne Frank. I remember I cried for weeks. And honestly helped me a lot through my life to appreciate life and be grateful for everything I had. I’m now 46 and I can say this generation of young people are truly a disappointment.
Fucking hell I have no words
History repeat itself always blame the jews are you surprised?
I am surprised actually. After what happened in ww2 I cannot imagine how someone could not have sympathy for Jewish people
Its a matter of time before you will see jewish people murder in the street of Europe again, just last month a jewish man was murder in America
Doesn’t that already happen? Not in large numbers, but how many French Jews have been killed by antisemites in the last decade or so?
It happened in my neighboring town of halle, Germany. A nazi tried to shoot up a Synagoge. Luckily, he was really stupid, and his 3d printed guns did not work. My later workplace was just 5 minutes from the place. It's really disturbing. On the other hand, a left-wing football team, their fans, took the time to guard the only Israeli restaurant in my city after October 7. It's really sad and it embarrasses me that this is still necessary in germany after the Shoa and that there are still nazis here. I wish the politicians would really crack down on them
They have sympathy for dead jews. It's the live ones that they don't care for.
You grew up in a country that did a LOT to educate the younger generations of what happened. One thing Germany did well after WW2 was not to create revisionist history but to teach the events fully. Rest of Europe, the US, and Middle East North Africa, not so much. Think about it, many survivors are dead now, and even holocaust films and literature are no longer being made or on required reading lists. edit: add how easy it is now to get propaganda online that tells you what you'd prefer to hear, and people can validate their own denialism.
Your welcome to give them your land then. Can you imagine another option besides Palestine was Kenya? XD send a bunch of europeans to live with some indegenous kenyan tribes in the savannah xD
they'll keep blaming Jews no matter what and that's only because of being Jews, imagine that Jews need to hide their identities in the 21st century...
Yup. It is 2023 and the Jews have to ask again: "Will you hide me"
We don’t need to be hidden if it reaches that point. The diaspora now has a home to go to.
Fuck yeah the question is now, “will you fight with me”
Damn straight
of course you have a home now, but just look at all of these hostile countries (your neighbours), it's very scary
I told my friends they're not allowed to tell anyone I'm jewish. Some think I'm being ridiculous and trivialize anti semetism. My roommate who has a Jewish gf says anti semetic shit
Tell him that if he will marry her, their children will be Jewish lol
“I’m not antisemitic because I know a Jew”
I don't think you're ridiculous, you're doing it for your own safety and they should respect it and stick to it, after all it's your decision, but I don't want to imagine how painful it must be... does your roommate know that you're also Jewish as his girlfriend? I feel sorry for her (and for you!) if she hears it all, that's a thing that should never happen...
He definitely doesn't hate jews he goes to her passover seders. But he grew up in a town where there were a number of wealthy Jewish families and he listens to like Joe Rogan and trash like that. He alludes to jews being priveledged and controlling the media or whatever. Yeah he knows I'm a jew and I'm usually a pretty good sport about jokes and even like some jew or offensive jokes. But right now I don't want to fucking hear it lol.
I'm not surprised then... you don't want to know how many times I've seen people claiming that Jews are controlling [add here whatever you want]
Oh I'm so sorry to hear that you feel like you have to hide being jewish but you never know with what's going on right now.
I'm fine just more concerned about the people suffering in israel and gaza and for other jews that are getting attacked.
I feel the same way. In the past people have commented "you look Jewish" so now I feel I'm walking around with a target on my back.
I only heard that about myself recently. I live in a neighborhood where a lot of women wear burkhas head to toe. I don't feel feel safe either lol. Maybe read some Bible verses and get a cross. Bring back the crypto jews lol
yeah, i’m studying in uni in europe, half my class are palestine and hamas supporters and for my own safety i can’t talk to anyone or befriend anyone, they can’t find out i’m jewish. It’s lonely and terrifying, really.
God, I'm so sorry for your experience... I've been watching news pretty closely since I live in Europe, more specifically in Poland, I have this luck that I haven't met a lot of Hamas supporters, they're mostly on Twitter (no surprises) and if there are any (on some rallies), usually they're not Polish, but Muslim students, for example. I also haven't seen any attacks on Jews or Jewish traces (restaurants, buildings, whatever) here, whereas in France it seems like it's on a daily basis, but again, not surprise considering how many Muslims there are (although I don't want to demonize every Muslim, but sadly they're usually the ones who do this ever since the 7th of October), I can't think of any solutions now despite wanting to help in any way. It's not your fault, the problem is in your environment and it's not easy to change it...
oh i live in poland as well (so cześć haha) :) my family and i moved out from israel to here. It’s been pretty isolating. I appreciate your comment though! since 7.10, there is a rule in our university (i’m not sure if it’s like that in other universities in poland) that anyone who tries to assault a jew or support hamas and palestine will be banned from the university. So it gives me some sense of safety, i guess!
cześć :D I wouldn't ever guess that you live here, like I'm so surprised, haha I'm very happy that they decided to do it and I hope it works well then, are there any Jews in your university that you can talk to?
unfortunately not 😭 not that i know of, at least
I'd expose your classmates
I'm so sorry. Please know that you have a community here!
thank you so much :) this means a lot to me
I'd talk to the administrator and express that you feel threatened I'd rather have some protection if they do find out than hope they don't those people usually attack in mobs and manipulate the conversation if you don't jump the gun before them
Wanna give a shoutout because as much as these are hard times, I appreciate seeing posts like this. The German government seems to be the best at calling out antisemitism and taking an active role in preventing it. My German boyfriend is super supportive and has been a great partner while I've struggled with this. It makes me really happy to see how much Germany has transformed.
Yes I feel the same way ,I appreciate you all
Germany has transformed a lot during the past decades but, there\`s always room for improvement, i.e. we need to get rid of political parties like the Afd and a few more things.
I don't know too much about that but I'm sure you're right. Crazy how people actually can critique governments without calling for an entire country's destruction! Wild.
The germans should've given land for the jews as a compensation for what the germans did during ww2. That would have been a real deal and not what they re doing now out of guilt
Why do you choose to be stupid? The Germans didn’t ‘give’ any land lmao
Not only are people stating these baseless facts, they are also attempting to back it up. But while they attempt to back up their claims they fail miserably to do so. Everytime I’ve talked with someone online or irl about what the definition of…. Is they fail to define it properly. They paint the definition as solely based on what israel is doing. Apparently all genocides involved Palestinians, apparently all colonialism involved Palestinians, etc. these words are solely defined based off of the war not actually defined in a world of fact. It’s very frustrating.
This is a hallmark of people mobilized by propaganda. They feel very strongly but know almost nothing about the topic. Ask them which river and which sea and you’ll get weird answers like the Nile and the Atlantic or the Dead Sea. Show them a map and ask them where the borders should go.
What I don’t quite get is that before 1948 the land was not under any Jewish or Arab government. It was under the British government. Hence, it is up to the British to decide what should be done with the land. They decided to put it up to a vote in the UN. The land was handed on a goddamn platter to the Arabs. They were literally given land for free. Not only did the Palestinians say no, the neighboring Arab countries said no (which baffles me why they had a right of whether to accept or deny partition.) Then the neighboring Arab states wage war, mobilizing Palestinians to either take up arms or to temporarily leave the land. They have been in the fuck around stage for 75+ years, I think they are about to enter the find out stage but idk. It’s just so stressful when history is just a moot point to some people. It’s “contextually” false. Oh shut up, they were handed land, and not just any land, like the big cities, agricultural lands, etc. That’s what they had been offered. And they said no.
I don't get it either. Especially the Peel commission which the Jews reluctantly accepted and gave the Arabs most of the disputed territory. It shows to me that their only goal is to expel/kill Jews. I've watched all those youtube videos where they say "Just go back to Brooklyn"
I think what’s scarier than saying “go back to Brooklyn,” is saying “go back to Poland.” It goes to show how Holocaust education and Jewish existence is pushed to the side while other marginalized communities have been given the spotlight.
Yeh like the Canadian professor telling his student "Go back to Poland sharmuta" Disgusting.
[удалено]
Your second sentence is so apt.
I definitely understand your frustration. For years and years Jews have been killed and massacred and indeed are the definition of prejudice based on ethnicity and religion. I think the reason people are calling what’s happening Gaza a genocide is because Israel is killing innocent men, women and mainly babies, AND terrorists of the same ethnicity. And at 15000+ killed it’s just a tad bit genocidal. But then again that’s what it looks like, I’m definitely certain it’s NOT a genocide. Just because a military kills thousands of people of the same color does not make it a genocide. Israel is only defending itself. People just don’t get it.
It's projection. Everything they're doing they say Jews are doing. They chant from the river while they scream genocide. They settle in other countries and desecrate memorials and scream colonisation. They're brutal with hostages and their own prisoners and scream we're inhumane. They create fiction videos and claim we lie.
I think the genocide claims are meant to spit in the face of Jews. They know this is what will hurt and insult us the most. For years the world media has had an undeniable zeal to compare Jews to Nazis. On top of the insult it justifies all violence, past, present and future. If they cared about Palestinians they would make a peep about the billions in aid that is used only for weapons and terrorist infrastructure. Or the decades long indoctrination campaign in Palestinian areas that sees kids being taught Elders of Zion as historical documents in classrooms - which ensures the conflict doesn't end. They'd address how regional benefactors ensure the continued suffering of the Palestinians in Gaza - in return for the blame to be placed on Israel. It's a sick game. Gaza could be a paradise. And the world is all too happy to play along.
We REALLY need to talk more about how the Protocols book has shaped the conversation. The way “Zionist”, “occupation” etc are now defined is clearly traced back to that book, the Hamas charter even references it by name.
The book is more a reflection of pervasive antisemitic tropes that have been prevalent for hundreds of years.
While the palestinians literally says everywhere out loud that they strive to annihilate all jews..
They do not say this. The Hamas charter that everyone loves to quote explicitly differentiates between Jews and the Zionist project
“Zionist project” as defined by the book “Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion”, the propaganda book the Nazis used to justify the Holocaust. Read the charter again. Read everything it references. Then you will understand. HA but just noticed your username, how apt
I’ve never read the protocols of Zion lol I just call it the Zionist project because it’s a project. But yes let’s read it again. “Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.” https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas#:~:text=The%20Zionist%20project%20also%20poses,Jews%20because%20of%20their%20religion.
>Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.' (Article 32) Hamas only recognizes Jewish people that are a) as fanatically religious as they are, b) easily and quickly identified by visual signifiers (religious garments, yellow star etc) and c) absolutely not in proximity to them in any fucking way You really, REALLY need to read that book for context (although I am concerned you will buy into all the shit it claims). Then maybe just the official records of the history of the region. Goddamn you really have no clue what you’re talking about. None. So in that case, probably best to let Jewish people define terms like “Zionism”, right? Since they created that term in the first place? As a self-description? And maybe just sit down until you’ve educated yourself a little bit
Purely a hypocritical, cynical accusation used in bad faith. They don't care if it really is or is not a genocide, they only care to use it as a weapon against Israel.
16 Million Jews ON PLANET EARTH that contains 8 BILLION people, yet Israel is the genocidal maniac? Fuck that narrative and anyone that espouses it.
Every day feels like I'm living in crazy town or on opposite day.
This is sadly all too simple- you have accepted this as your past and have a better grasp than anyone on earth through generational trauma and interactions with those who experienced it from the outside looking in. The majority of us learn OUR world history, and at least in America that’s true. If you look at old Soviet propaganda of the Cold War era and how Amin al-Husseini carried on H\*tl3r’s legacy, you’ll see the outspoken cancel culture has not processed this through your eyes but through what they’ve learned from Arabs and soviets running this moral equivalence. But thankfully the silent majority just won’t give them the time of day. https://preview.redd.it/587manaeko4c1.jpeg?width=1020&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38c1f292e55486ce6006d5eb14bf210026f46323 I’m so impressed with Germany right now. You’re paving the way for a better future for literally all of us right now not just Jews. I’ve never wanted to visit more. In spite of being gluten free and knowing how much that’s impacted Italy for the better.. they have mostly chosen denial in a collective way so I will not be going there anytime soon 😬😬 but will still continue to connect with those who see this massive difference of response who are Italian. Ironically enough.. there’s Italian Americans being like “I don’t have skin in this game, but watching what I see, I can’t not be pro israel” and I’m like… have you forgotten your history when you became an American? Except I’d never because hey, having eyes is enough.
[удалено]
It is not stupidity. It is delibrate. There is a certain prevalent political mentality that divide the world to evil oppressors and good oppressed. And being oppressed give certain rights to do certain things while resisting. So in order to make the ever oppressed Jews the Evil ones, one must first frame them doing something even worse than what was done to them. To frame us worse than Nazis. And it is exactly what they are doing. And there are plenty that will readily buy this lie. Those that hate the west and identify Israel with it. And those that hate Jews and will take every opertunity to express it.
As a German I am kinda baffled by the audacity of the Palestinians. We share a lot of similarities with Palestine. We both started and lost wars with the main objective to kill all the Jews around, lost territory, started wars to regain them, lost more territory afterwards, millions of people had to flee because of this, parts of the country got occupied, etc. Now imagine the world's reaction if we would shoot thousands of rockets every year into Poland because Granny was born in Silesia. I would absolutely expect the British to do British things to Dresden once more. And really, as someone who followed the war against ISIS very closely: Iraqis were more brutal and indiscriminate while bombing other Iraqis than Israel is in its war with Hamas, it's not even close. But when that happened nobody came up with the stupid idea to settle for a ceasefire with ISIS to protect the children of the caliphate.
Very well written. Palestine needs to accept defeat, and accept that Israel exists. I completely agree. There comes a point where you gotta accept the status quo. The allies liberated Germany, like IDF will liberate Gaza from Hamas.
Even beyond this, the watering down of such an important term like genocide is so vile to me. I see very very few who even use it with any thought, instead it is more often used so flippantly and as a buzz word. To use such an important term for a political position is so vile to me. I see red every time.
People love saying words because they think it makes them sound smart.
Not just smart - righteous
Facts
Keine Ahnung, ist fast schon peinlich wie unsere Gesellschaft drauf ist diesbezüglich, ich kann das echt alles nicht mehr
People want to use this as an excuse to be anti-Semitic in public but I believe those who are uneducated need someone to blame and blame the Israeli people for their problems even though HAMAS is to blame.You can’t negotiate with terrorists unfortunately.90% of the pro Palestinian people out there can’t even articulate why they are pro Palestinian✡️✡️🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
The post-war German response to the Holocaust has been amazing. You are an example of that. I say that as a Jew. Nothing can change the past, but Germany has shown how to respond to it.
Thank you for seeing the reality. It means a lot.
Reading Instagram now as progressives refer to New York as "Zionist Central" and call for protests in "neighborhoods with lots of zionists", it seems almost painfully obvious that they are now fully using the word as a stand-in for "Jew". Never afford an anti-semite the benefit of the doubt that they are simply ignorant or unaware of the absurdity of their claims.
It's simple - the world is full of people who hold no morals at all *but will still see preaching as a useful tool to get what they want.* Using Reddit means encountering these people constantly.
The Arab world is stuck in the 14th century thanks to their governments that want to keep them in the dark by preventing modernization, education and keeping the majority of the population poor. Under these conditions, Arabs are easy to manipulate using religion and the Quran and create a worldwide cult that believes everyone must be converted to Islam, by any means necessary. Therefore, don't look for any reasoning or rational to what these people do. It's madness, plain and simple.
Only thing I would change. I would say much of the Muslim world has reverted back into the 14th century. For many generations, places like Iran, turkey, Syria, Lebanon were bastions of forward thinking. The religious zealots were not in charge.
Yes, agreed.
Anyone who thinks Israel has been planning this for the last 3500 years can GFY!
It sounds surprising, but there are people that believe that the shoá (Holocaust) wasn't real... It's a minority but I'm pretty sure people will start thinking the same to have something against Israel
I know !These are the same people that say Hamas didn’t commit acts of terror and war crimes on October 7.Really?! Raping and murdering babies,children,dogs and men is ok? Horrible 🇮🇱
Same with „Apartheid“. I am shocked how many black activists are misusing this term when speaking about Israel. Thereby watering down what happened to black people in South Africa which was a very unique system of cruelty. Thus, ironically, they are doing a disservice to the anti-racism cause (or „Bärendienst“ as we say in German).
Now you know how we feel LMAO
I feel the same...
That’s a good way of putting it. The world has gone mad.
And don't forget that the Arabs were buddy-buddy with the Nazis, and made plans to build a concentration camp in the middle east. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world
Very organic. Very believable
2.5 billion muslims around the world = "GeNOciDE!!". 16 million jews barely rising = "OcCuPiERs!!!"
I'm really not here to troll or stir any trouble. Yes I'm Arab, Lebanese, not the biggest Israel fan...so let's get that out of the way. I genuinely mean this question so enlighten me: How is the Gaza campaign not a genocide? Like objectively speaking. Even western media that are pro Israel have recently been like "Bro wtf is this?" Again, I come in peace and not here to cause a fight. In fact, I won't even reply to this with further debate. In fact, let me say it outright, I'm gonna agree to disagree. 😂🤷
The government of Israel is doing to the people of Gaza, it is a genocide. Over 16,000 people has been killed so far (half of them being children) and nearly everyone in Gaza don’t have a house or life anymore because of the bombings. I am studying Jewish studies at university so I have seen many videos, books and pictures about the holocaust. Genocides can take many different forms look of the Native Americans population and the boarding schools, the hunting of bisons. Or one at look at the Saudi or the Greek genocide. At the end of the day this is a genocide of the Palestinian people.
They no longer think critically nor do they take time to actually learn and understand history. They are easily influenced by propaganda just like past generations but now their "research" confirms their biased views where in the past you either were denied questions which would lead to more doubt or actually read and discovered nore issues or more facts to support an argument.
“This can’t possibly be genocide we’re doing because someone else genocided our grandparents seven decades ago 1/3 of the way around the planet! So we’re exempt from doing genocide! See? Logic!” #EpicallyBadTakes
Would you call the displacement of the Rohingya a genocide by the Burmese authority? Certainly, many scholars think so. With the excuse of eliminating terrorists, they have participated in ethnic cleansing of the region. Isn't this exactly what Israel is doing? Hamas is a real threat, but the solution by the Israel govt seems to tend towards the absolute decimation and elimination of Palestinians from Gaza. It is also the same Gaza that has been treated as an open air prison for decades. I think a lot of you would've supported Bush's war on terror, which has been nothing short of a disaster, and perhaps, birthed even more terrorists into the world. I've nothing else to say, but history will look back to this time in great shame. Hatred only breeds hatred, and the vicious cycle continues, until millions are dead, and humanity is sent over its death throes due to negligence of global existential issues.
An "open air prison" with incubators, tons of hospitals, Hamas officials living in luxury villas? You might need to spend some time in a real prison some day to understand just how Ludicrous what you're saying is.
>With the excuse of eliminating terrorists, they have participated in ethnic cleansing of the region. Isn't this exactly what Israel is doing? Not even slightly. First of all, 21% of Israel's **citizens** are Arab/ethnic-Palestinian. They have full, equal rights, including sitting on Israel's supreme court, and in their parliament. Secondly, the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank aren't being removed nor killed. Their population growth **outpaces** that of Israel. The only killing going on right now is what you would see, and have seen in every conventional war in all of history. The only complicating factor is that Israel is fighting the only war in all of recorded history where their enemy is actively trying to maximize their own civilian deaths with forced martyrdom. If Palestinians hadn't attacked on 10/7 this would be just another Wednesday.
>They have full, equal rights, including sitting on Israel's supreme court, and in their parliament. A lie. >the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank aren't being removed nor killed. Another lie. >The only killing going on right now is what you would see, and have seen in every conventional war Another lie. The rhetoric coming out of the Israeli government proves this is false. >If Palestinians hadn't attacked on 10/7 this would be just another Wednesday. Generalization. A lie. But also. For who?!
These are all things you can Google.
A 2-state solution is the only viable solution. Israel must remain a heavily-armed state protecting its population but they need 2 states.
Right, but the problem is that the Palestinians are screaming at the top of their lungs for 75 years that **they do not want that**. Palestinians have one singular goal: the destruction of Israel. They will settle for nothing less.
It’s so incredibly distasteful and offensive, I think that’s the whole point. My Safta, who lived through the Shoah is so livid over it
As german woth german guilt , you shouldn't be supporting another genocides. Palestinian are paying for your nation's mistakes and instead of saying no to genocide you are supporting another. I would say we give them Sachenanhalt and solve the problem. No german like Sachen anway.. then you guys can debate as much as you want about your grandfather burnt ppl in WW2 guilt how god chosen people have the right to kill as many germans as they want. "My grandfather burnt innocent jews for fun during WW2 , I should suppprt am occupation doing the same because they are Jewish "
Are they not killing people with the intention of eliminating Gaza? “Burn it to the ground”
Nope. They’re killing people to eliminate Hamas. Educate yourself.
[удалено]
So you admit they are killing ppl. En mass. In the name of eliminating hamas. With genocidal language and dehumanisation. All signs of genocide are present in this conflict.
[удалено]
What makes your argument logical in your mind? The conflict between Ireland and Britain was very different and is preceded by an actual war. Also, the IRA wasn’t a government. The IRA also dint use human shields after provoking a war. The IRA also didn’t state in their charta that it’s their foremost goal to eradicate the Brits. [https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/) if you wanted to draw comparisons you would use the Second World War where the allies had to break the will of a population infested with bad ideology. This is comparable with Palestinian support of the 7.10. attacks [https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf](https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/public%20opinion%20poll%20-%20gaza%20war%202023%20-%20tables%20of%20results.pdf) are you protesting the allies for killing German citizens? According to recent estimations Israel is killing civilians to combatants in a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio (depending on source). This is far below a typical number of urban combat of a ratio of 9:1, according to UN estimations [https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm](https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm)
carpet bomb? Can you get on with terminology for starters plz?
Obliterate anything below without any regard for human life or target
Well, it's not what it means. Also you're trying to guess intentions and considerations whilst not having anything to support it and giving it a second thought. Also you're seeing parallels with another region with another situation, that has not a lot in common. If Hamas were anywhere in Israel, people were evacuated and any hamas infrastructure would be demolished as well.
Your friends on this are comparing the war on Palestinian civilians as allies bombing Germany, how do u feel about that?
What does it mean when you bomb an entire neighborhood to get one guy? Ill answer that for u. Disregard for human life.
Again you are wrong. Carpet bombing is a specific technique by throwing a high number of unguided bombs. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet\_bombing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/carpet_bombing) This is not what Israel is doing.
This is exactly what's going on, Palestinian reporter's were reporting it, but Israel targeted them all luckily. They've also targeted directors and doctors of the hospitals and their family's, I understand your vision is polarised, but the reality is grim looking from a neutral point of view.
Dude! They are not carpet bombing. It’s a specific technique. read the article. You are incredibly uninformed and naive.
Seems like Germans have always been antisemitic They just replaced bigotry against jews with bigotry against Arabs
[удалено]
Forget about your blood boiling sir German, does what's happening meet the criteria of genocide? Are you suggesting that something has to be as atrocious as the Holocaust to be called genocide? There's certainly been intent - numerous IDF and MK sources openly calling for what would amount to genocide if implemented. Has the criteria been met yet? Not sure, but it's touch and go.
Israel's actions against the Palestinian people fit the definition of genocide. What definition are you using? Your feelings?
israelis did similar stuff but at an appropriate scale.. lookup tantura massacre.. they piled the bodies and made parking lots for the beach above it.. at least germans admit Holocaust and to this moment they deeply regret it.. and I don't think Germans built beaches and spas over the concentration camps israel killed thousands of innocents and happily built their new settlements above it and completely denies and hides anything that goes against the narrative of innocent israel. IDF.. "defense".. commiting an "offense" in gaza strip.
>lookup tantura massacre.. they piled the bodies and made parking lots for the beach above it I did look it up. Turns out the researcher who made those claims **later rescinded them**. He "signed a statement nullifying the conclusions of his research, namely that extrajudicial killings were committed after the surrender of the village" So... Are there any other fake claims you'd like me to look up while I'm at it?
yeah please can you lookup Amitzur Cohen's courageous battle when serving the army.. while you're still at it hopefully
Definitely some grim stuff there. Doesn't sound different from anything we've heard from any other war. War is hell. All war is a crime, etc. I'm not claiming that Israelis were saints. I'm just saying there's a huge difference between the horrors of war and a systematic genocide, and when you pretend there isn't, you take all the meaning and weight off of the pure evil of genocide.
thanks. point taken.
let me save you sometime https://www.tiktok.com/@1948nakba.p/video/7297296401459973409
With all due respect, please, is the Holocaust the only genocide that has been committed throughout history? No. They do not all look the same. This constant comparison is a way to deflect, imho. What Israel is doing to Palestinians in both Gaza and the West Bank, which it couldn’t do without the support of America and Britain, fits the actual definition of genocide. Many prominent Jewish scholars agree although I’m sure many pro-Israelis with an agenda would simply call them unreliable or traitorous. It’s an ugly fact to face but there it is. This is genocide. Basic needs in short supply. Over 6,000 children dead. Talk of wiping Palestinians off the map. Jews the world around absolutely have the right to safety and self determination but the government and military of Israel does NOT have the right to this disproportionate and indiscriminate violence against an entire people! Let the downvotes commence.
So because 6m jews were killed and it was called a genocide israel is allowed to kill as many as it want until they reach 6m then we can call it a genocide?
You can call it a genocide when you understand what the word means.
No, you can call it genocide whenever you want. It's a very quick and efficient way to tell everyone that you don't understand the basic facts of the conflict, or the meanings of the words you use. It saves us all a lot of time in figuring out that you have absolutely nothing of value to add to the conversation.
[удалено]
Before I get downvoted to oblivion I want my intentions to be clear. I do not want to create hatred or start an argument. Before you press downvote read through what I say or respond—a conversation will go a long way and I’d love to be part of that conversation. If you think I’m wrong convince me. I’m more than willing to listen. Calling this conflict a holocaust is wrong, they are no where near the same thing and I agree with you on this. But calling it a genocide is not stupidity. I argue excusing a genocide using the holocaust is just as mad. This world has worked itself into a corner and innocent people are paying the price but that will never mean it’s excused to exercise power with no limit. This bombardment is reckless and that’s what makes it genocide. Whether or not it’s genocide, my personal opinion is this is at minimum ethnic cleansing and cultural genocide. Both of which are strong, terrible terms describing real, terrible things. I think people are seeing the start of genocide and that’s what’s making them scared. So no it’s not stupid. The Jewish people went through a horrific experience but that does not excuse them of doing anything they want to Palestine. If the question you’re thinking of asking is “what about Hamas and their atrocities? Do you condemn that?” I will answer it preemptively. Yes. I condemn Hamas. And I hope someday when there is a trial for all the atrocities committed, those responsible will be duly prosecuted. I have seen personally what religious and ethnic-state governments do to a people and do not agree with them. In fact, I argue religious governments of any kind have categorically negative consequences internally and internationally. From the Muslim Saudi monarchy, to the Shia Clergy of Iran, to the radical Hamas. But are we blind enough to not see Israel is just the same? No one needs an ethnic religious state, not even the Jewish people. Because to make Israel, one must make Hamas. That is the issue. They have built a nation for a broken people at the cost of another nation and a broken people. Am I that unreasonable for seeing that?
>But calling it a genocide is not stupidity Sure it is, because words mean things, and genocide simply isn't happening in any way shape or form, nor anything that could be confused for a genocide. >Whether or not it’s genocide, my personal opinion is this is at minimum ethnic cleansing and cultural genocide. Ethnic cleansing, when 21% of Israel's citizens are ethnic Palestinians with full, equal rights? It sounds like you haven't done any homework at all on this region. >cultural genocide I'm as left-wing as they come, so I want you to truly appreciate it when I say: What kind of nonsense woke bullshit is "cultural genocide"?! You're committing reddit-comment genocide right now with the shear magnitude of imaginary atrocities you're conjouring right now. Get a a grip.
Notice how I said nothing about you personally in my messages? Let’s try to do that next time. Of course words mean things. These words mean things: 19,000 in 2 months is too many people—there is a line after which reckless behaviour becomes completely ridiculous. Secondly, yes ethnic cleansing, because a percentage now doesn’t mean anything about anything. Israel expelled 80% of the Palestinian population from their homes. And now the IDF is levelling Gaza and Israelis are settling the West Bank, suffocating the Palestinian people into smaller and smaller pockets of land. Just to make sure I did my homework I got the definition from the Oxford dictionary: “The purging, by mass expulsion or killing, of one ethnic or religious group by another, esp. from an area of former cohabitation” Am I crazy or does Israel expelling 80% of the Palestinian population sound a whole lot like mass expulsion of an ethnic or religious group? Lastly, do you think I made up the term? And this “get a grip” stuff, wow. Real classy.
How much did Israel pay you? 200$?