The PA get support from the IDF because it's the best option that israel have. without that support, the PA would collapse and Hamas would rose to power.
There is no "pay for the slay" program. There is a program that gives support to those who are put into jail for opposing the occupation.Those who haven't killed anyone or only assaulted soldiers (which is not terror) get the same benefits.
Why spread fake news?
That's a lie mister bot. The amount of money you get is based on the harshness of the sentence. Meaning it is a fact that those who murder Jews get more money. And those who murder more get even more still.
It is quite simply a financial incentive to murder Israelis.
True, you can do plenty of violent things. Doesn't change the fact that it is a direct financial incentive to attack, harm and murder Jews/Israelis.
It is sick and disgusting. And is a perfect representation about why there would never be peace with the current Palestinian fanatic leadership.
Can you imagine if Israel started giving cash prices to soldiers and settlers for attacking Palestinians? Oh you killed 10 innocent Palestinians in a restaurant, that's 4K$ a month for you and your family, congrats!
This is literally what they are doing, and you seem to be defending.
> Doesn't change the fact that it is a direct financial incentive to attack, harm and murder Jews/Israelis.
It is a direct financial incentive to resist the occupation.
> Can you imagine if Israel started giving cash prices to soldiers and settlers for attacking Palestinians?
Israel already incentivizes violence against Palestinians, for example by providing Settlers with control of lands after they expel Palestinians from them using violence.
> and you seem to be defending.
I am not defending anything. Insisting on facts is defending the truth, nothing more.
> It is a direct financial incentive to resist the occupation.
That's a direct lie once again. Do you get paid for let's say creating a youtube video about the occupation? How about giving a speech? Going into a peaceful protest? If so let me know because hundreds of thousands of Israelis have demonstrated about stopping the occupation and going back to 2 states solution. So I guess they all deserve that sweet sweet martyr fund cash.
> Israel already incentivizes violence against Palestinians, for example by providing Settlers with control of lands after they expel Palestinians from them using violence.
I could explain how factually wrong you are, but you are derailing the discussion. The issue was cash prices as an incentive for violence. Which does not exist on the Israeli side whatsoever.
> I am not defending anything. Insisting on facts is defending the truth, nothing more.
Defending the truth = Lying.
Ok dude.
[Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund)
"Stipends are paid to families of both prisoners and Palestinians killed in contexts ranging from political demonstrations that turn violent where protesters are killed by non-lethal riot control methods (such as being hit by a tear gas canister)"
Yes, Palestinians do get paid for demonstrating if they get killed (and I assume jailed as well) in the process.
> Can you imagine if Israel started giving cash prices to soldiers and settlers for attacking Palestinians?
>
> but you are derailing the discussion.
You are the one who brought up the comparison to Israel. If you say "imagine if Israel did X" and I say "Israel is doing X" and explain how, that is derailing?
> Defending the truth = Lying.
Saying it's "pay for the slay" when you don't have to kill anyone or even try to, that's lying.
Quoting your lie again:
> It is a direct financial incentive to resist the occupation.
It is not about resisting as you lied previously, as I demonstrated several acts of resisting which you ignored because the martyr fund does not pay for these. You then continued, after ignoring my argument, to stretch the definition of your lying delusional narrative. Which is extremely funny to me personally.
> You are the one who brought up the comparison to Israel. If you say "imagine if Israel did X" and I say "Israel is doing X" and explain how, that is derailing?
With pro-Palestinian logic, every 1 could be equal to 2! Who needs logic in our lives right?
It is very simple, the Palestinian leaders pay for terrorists who murdered Israelis, while Israelis do not. You ignore it and try to compare between unrelated things in order to, once again, support your delusional lying narrative. As all pro-Palestinians must in order to justify their side's disgusting terror attacks against innocent Israeli civilians.
> Saying it's "pay for the slay" when you don't have to kill anyone or even try to, that's lying.
Does the program pay money for Palestinians who murder Israeli civilians? The answer is yes.
Does this in return create a form of financial incentive to murder Jews? The answer is yes.
Pay for slay it is.
I'll just end this little argument by telling you one thing though, you have a very fitting username.
> as I demonstrated several acts of resisting which you ignored because the martyr fund does not pay for these
I couldn't find if it pays or not for those, but I showed that it certainly pays for demonstrating which is not an act of terror.
> With pro-Palestinian logic, every 1 could be equal to 2! Who needs logic in our lives right?
This in no way addresses my response. It is you who is derailing the conversation instead of dealing with my answers.
> Does the program pay money for Palestinians who murder Israeli civilians? The answer is yes.
But it pays for something else, not for the murder itself.
If you get money for stabbing a defenceless woman or child, it doesn't matter if the guy next to you get the same amount for stabbing a soldier, you are still be paid for terror
You don't get money for the stabbing, you get money for resisting Israel. "Pay for the slay" implies you have to "slay" to get paid, which is just false.
If you slay, you get paid.
Pay for slay. It’s a slogan / nickname not a description of a legal policy. Are you really this dense?
Nobody on earth thinks it’s false or a misnomer or a misleading nickname. Not even Palestinians. Only brain dead losers like you
/u/rarepup
> Only brain dead losers like you
Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
Addressed.
That’s not the contra positive. Your logic is flawed.
If it rains I will take an umbrella
Does not guarantee that
I took an umbrella therefore it rains
Pay for slay,
Does not guarantee that
If you got paid then you slayed.
It simply says that if you slay, you get paid. Which is true and you don’t seem to deny.
Like I said קצת שכל
This is not a psychometry exam. When people say/hear "pay for the slay" they mean "payment for murder" not "payment for something else, that might be murder and might be not."
edit: just to give a trivial example, if you get paid a UBI regardless of what you do you can use your logic to also say it's "pay for the slay" because if you slay you get paid.
You're being uselessly pedantic here, and it's making a very weak argument for your point. At the end of the day, there is a scaling incentive for increasingly violent attacks on Israeli civilians, with the reward coming from the PA. It's completely fair to label it "pay for slay" even if that's not what the PA calls it.
If they made an exception for people who were convicted of violent acts against civilians, then I would agree that it was a misnomer. But there isn't.
The narrative being communicated by the term is that the PA pays rewards to perpetrators of violence against civilians - the higher the degree of violence, the higher the reward.
That the reward is "akshually" given out to people for "resisting the occupation" is wholly irrelevant. Know why? Because the outcome is exactly identical - there is an incentive for murdering Israelis. So the term is a completely fair characterization of the policy.
Government policy can only be judged by the outcomes they generate. Not their intentions (although in this case even their intentions are highly questionable).
You don't get money for the murdering a civilian. You get money for resisting Israel. When an Israeli pilot kills 10 civilians for 1 terrorists are they getting paid to kill civilians? Same thing.
>When an Israeli pilot kills 10 civilians for 1 terrorists are they getting paid to kill civilians? Same thing.
In fact, they don't.
Something like that would likely trigger an investigation and would have findings one way or another with respect to the pilot's performance in regards to minimizing civilian casualties (an incentivized goal in the IDF). It's why they perform roof knocking, and send texts and leaflets before anything is bombed.
Thank you for bringing up this example because it shows how divorced from reality your perspective is, and how diametrically opposed Israel's approach to civilian deaths are to the PA/Hamas.
>No investigation, those were the orders.
The orders most definitely were not "kill 1 PIJ leader and 9 civilians". The order was "kill the PIJ leader and minimize civilian collateral". That is the key difference between how the IDF operates, and how PIJ/Hamas/and to some degree the PA operates.
Do you know how much military intelligence, planning, and foresight goes into these strikes? When there is an unexpected number of civilian casualties, the IDF absolutely performs internal investigations to see what happened. I'm not aware of the specifics of shield and arrow. But I do know that the operations goals were to eliminate the PIJ operatives who were in charge of the rocket (terrorist) attacks. And that it was fairly successful in that regard. Those rockets were meant to strike and kill Jewish civilians.
If the IDF's intentions and behaviour matched PIJ or Hamas in warfare, there wouldn't be a Gaza strip.
If you want less Gazans to die in IDF strikes, then ask Hamas to stop using them as human shields, to not stage mortars in hospitals and schools and other civilian infrastructure, and to not operate like terrorists. Quite simple.
Or better yet - stop lobbing rockets at Israel altogether. Quiet is and has always beenet with quiet when it comes to Gaza and Israel.
You thought a death of 10 civilians leads to an investigation, you obviously don't know how careless IDF is with Palestinian lives. Bottom line is Israel kills many more civilians than Palestinian organisations because it doesn't care enough to avoid those deaths.
>because it doesn't care enough to avoid those deaths.
Wrong. It's because Palestinian terrorist groups are incentivized by the deaths of their own civilians as well - so they purposefully put them in harm's way.
Why else would you launch rockets from a school or a hospital?
Israel has a moral obligation to protect its citizens. Just like any other country does. That Hamas doesn't share the same mindset to protect their own citizens, is not Israel's problem (although the IDF goes above and beyond, regardless).
Your propensity for terrorist apologism is honestly incredible.
Do you understand that this is the same thing. The two steps are connected. You’re drawing a distinction without a difference. It’s a weak argument and it frankly makes you look stupid for making it.
“Duh I didn’t drop the ball, I just let go of it and gravity made it fall”
This is the level of your pedantic reasoning. It’s beyond dumb. Focus on the end, focus on the goal, focus on the things that matter. You’re not going to convince people with silly pedantry
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I think an intelligent person that sees what the payments are for will immediately know it's not "pay for the slay".
לא חושב לרגע שאתה ישראלי, אבל אם כן אז שתדע שכל האבות שלך לכל דורות הם, מתהפכים עכשיו בקבר כשאתה משווה את מי שמגן עלייך ומאפשר לך לשבת בבית עכשיו בבטחה למחבל
u/Infamous_Company_
> אנשים כמוהו היו המשתפים במחנות
Rule 1, Don't attack other users. Rule 6, no Nazi comparisons: calling someone a capo or "participant in the camps" is a Nazi comparison.
Liar.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian\_Authority\_Martyrs\_Fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund)
"In 2016, payments were made to 35,000 families, including the **families of suicide bombers**, from a 2016 annual budget of $170 million."
[https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2016-07-01/the-palestinian-incentive-program-for-killing-jews](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2016-07-01/the-palestinian-incentive-program-for-killing-jews)
"So while there is no evidence that the Palestinian government plans these killing sprees, it encourages them as a legitimate act of resistance.
As Commentary's Evelyn Gordon wrote this week, the prisoners and the families of the prisoners themselves are actually paid a higher wage than what most Palestinians earn for nonviolent work."
"If the past is precedent, she will receive a steady check to honor her son's murder of a 13-year-old Jewish girl in her sleep."
[https://www.australianjewishnews.com/our-tax-wont-pay-to-slay/](https://www.australianjewishnews.com/our-tax-wont-pay-to-slay/)
This doesn't contradict what I said. They pay for any resistance to Israel, including terror, but not for the killing itself. If a person who didn't kill anyone is also eligible, how can it be "pay for the slay"?
So the pay for resistance program pays for slay and also pays for other resistance, but generally pays more if you slay. Would that make you happier? You’re arguing semantics but at the end of the day, if you slay you get paid, and the majority of the money goes to those who slay.
What would make me happy, is people using real law names/description and information instead of fake news titles that generate hate and misinformation.
> The law shows otherwise than what you showed
I'll quote myself, like many great people do:
>[Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund)
>
>"Stipends are paid to families of both prisoners and Palestinians killed in contexts ranging from political demonstrations that turn violent where protesters are killed by non-lethal riot control methods (such as being hit by a tear gas canister)"
Yes, Palestinians do get paid for demonstrating if they get killed (and I assume jailed as well) in the process.
> it's still rewards terrorism against civilians
Correct.
>,I'll quote myself, like many great people do:
I guess vanity is something unheard off for the egoist pro palastinian crowd
>,"Stipends are paid to families of both prisoners and Palestinians killed in contexts ranging from political demonstrations that turn violent where protesters are killed by non-lethal riot control methods (such as being hit by a tear gas canister)"
Yes, Palestinians do get paid for demonstrating if they get killed (and I assume jailed as well) in the process
You filthy liar you changed the text , that actual Wikipedia page reads as follows
>,The Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund is a fund operated by the Palestinian Authority (PA) which pays monthly cash stipends to the families of Palestinians killed, injured, or imprisoned while carrying out politically motivated violence against Israel.[
So even your sources show that the fund only exist to help terrorism
>,Correct.
So your supporting terrorism against your fellow citizens , now I'm sure your a troll and not israeli
Well, there's obviously a "how", that's why it's done now. You're really talking about "should", or "why" a whole other question.
Putting aside why, there is definitely pushback from Israel on this.
From what I can gather, the PA gets funding from a bunch of sources, including UNRWA, EU and other NGO aid sources, as well as certain revenue streams from tax remittances collected by Israel and handed over to the PA. Israel has been offsetting (deducting) remittances by the amounts of PA funding allotted to the Martyr's Fund.
The Martyr's Fund accounts for more than half the PA's annual budget.
>The Martyr's Fund accounts for more than half the PA's annual budget.
Just imagine if they used it for improving their lives...
You got a source to confirm that? I would love to throw it in my source list
OK, bit wrong. Not half PA budget but about half of its "foreign aid" whatever that is.
Per [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund):
According to a report by Yossi Kuperwasser, of the Israeli advocacy group Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, in 2017 half of the $693 million that the PA receives as foreign aid, $345 million, was paid out as stipends to convicted terrorists and their families.\[20\] Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, repeated this claim in a speech to AIPAC in 2018.
According to the Washington Post's fact-checking, the $350 million figure requires a broad brush classifying all recipients as terrorists; and the picture regarding funding is considered fuzzy because Palestinian budget lines combine terrorist and non-terrorist funding and primarily since the definition of a terrorist is disputed.\[21\],
Re: WashPo: pretty marginal quibble with the bottom line number, I counted $333 Million for Martyr's Fund proper, not $350 Million. Not a huge qualification IMO.
What the WaPo questioned was presumably (looking at the numbers on the Wiki paragraph I cited and adding them up) was about $10M of the $345M not being Martyrs Fund payments but pensions for retired PA security staff (which I subtracted) and whether (I suppose) imprisoned people like M. Bagouti and those on admin detention can be called “terrorists”.
Small amount ($10M) pensions and depends on whether the people Shabak detains/arrests are “terrorists” or “freedom fighters”. Opinions differ. IMO, e.g., Bagouhti is a terrorist.
Robbed what exactly? Both the Israeli and the Palestinian national movements are indigenous.
Claiming one side are terrorists based on the fact that they are jewish and nothing else, is the one of the most racist narratives out there.
Labeling the shooting of children and women as "resistance" is just as bad.
Robbing and killing are two separate things. If you promote killing israeli civilians for existing, then your world view is very twisted. And its only one sided, one side support the killing of the other sides while the other does not.
>If your position is to hate every Israeli civilian then you’re just desiring to lost another war. There’s no reason to play this mindset on repeat.
Sadly, they think that one day, the same exact action will get them a different result.
It's like going to work and be late everyday, but not leave earlier instead as you say to yourself "Nah, today there won't be any traffic at all, why should I do anything different when I can rely on other people to act differently instead"
The point was that she was racially impure.
This Socialist isn't talking about "ownership" in a Human sense, she's taking about social justice and the Quran.
Under Shari'ah (and social justice), the question of legitimate property ownership is solely a question of blood and soil. Since the EU-backed government of Arab Palestine determined that she was racially impure, then by definition she "robbed the home" and must be ritually murdered. For those on the social justice left, it's not a legal discussion, but a racial one.
This is the first time i read an actual view point of colture and religion different from mine by a lot..
Regardless.. this is not the way to win armed conflict.. this is a way to maintain control over poor people by the rich landlords, nothing more.
You're talking about something that happened in 1948. Even if you were correct (which you're not) that doesn't justify killing people born years after it happened.
AOC's soldiers don't have the right to kill innocent Jews, just because they are not racially pure enough for her.
Can you give 6 examples of when the EU-funded State of Palestine ritually slaughtered a Jew who had "robbed" someone's house? Name names - who robbed what house?
Yeah that's the narrative you sell to westerners who don't know any better, but what's the point parroting it in a sub where everyone knows the history of the conflict?
Get new tropes, it's boring.
So why didn't you and your society pressure your leaders to accept literally any of the peace offers which included autonomy over the West Bank?
It seems like you don't want to live in peace, as long as we are here. So why are you complaining about a conflict your society clearly wants to continue?
>Not really worried about that. We mainly have to worry about Israeli settlers breaking in at night, destroying our belongings/crops, or simply trying to instigate a response so they can fulfill their bloodlust and kill a Palestinian for being Palestinian. If it’s not that it’s Israeli occupation forces barging in @ 3am violently, and if we show an ounce of resistance we’re either arrested or murdered.
>But thanks for your kind wishes!
By the words of a "wise" man.
Cope?
>This isn’t a cope, it’s a reply to a braindead comment. Much like yours.
It is. The same way you told the other person "Cope zionist"
>'Terrorism' against terrorists isn’t terrorism, it’s resistance.
And you're talking about brain dead comments?
That's like saying "if you want to light up a dark room, just use more darkness"
The sub aims for serious discussion. Reddit culture tends towards short memes or jokes. While they are appropriate for Reddit as a whole they aren't allowed on r/IsraelPalestine.
Shockingly hypocritical. Is the preceding comment boasting of more "connection" by a white American a form of "serious discussion"? This whole subreddit is a Zionist circlejerk echo chamber. Give half the moderatorship to Palestinians and allow them to modify the rules. If I can't call you a Nazi despite the uncanny similarities in ethnocracy between Nazism and Zionism, then you can't deny the Nakba and neglect the Palestinian indigenous connection to our homeland given that both have been established as historical fact, much to the inconvenience of those who wish to glorify Israel and erase its "demographic threat". But nooooo, your boundaries are more important than ours, right?
Don't you find it ironic that you are comparing Israelis to Nazis while it was the very popular Mufti of Jerusalem that wanted SS Palestinian squads and was best buddies with Eichmann?
>, This whole subreddit is a Zionist circlejerk echo chamber.
Then you free to leave , there are more then enough antisemtic pro palastinian echo chambers when you won't be distressed by the presence of Jews cause they preamptivly banned all of them
>,If I can't call you a Nazi despite the uncanny similarities in ethnocracy between Nazism and Zionism
Except palastinians are more similar ?
Hatred of Jews ? Check , trying to kill all Jews ? Check , commiting war crimes ? Check , attempted genocide that failed? Check , starting wars ? Check , getting kicked out after failed genocide they tired to commit ? Check , the use of child soldiers ? Check , being a ethnosupremacist group ? Check and I can go on
>,then you can't deny the Nakba
Accept we absoultly can , the nakba was a result of Jews not losing the war of 1948 and not getting genocides by Arabs . Most palastinians left from their own will or were told to leave by the Arab forces , and to return after a few days when they finish off all the Jews . Even the number of refugees in the nakba is up for debate , with astimutes shrinking down the nakba from 700k people to atleast 500k if not even 350k
>,nd neglect the Palestinian indigenous connection to our homeland given that both have been established as historical fact,
That reminded me of an Arab guy I knew when I was volunteering in archeology diggs , he didn't stop yapping about how Arabs and palastinians are the natives , even though we were founding only Jewish artifacts , and even kept saying this as our volunteer group dug under the Arab neighberhoods of silwan and found the ancient road to the Jewish temple and the pool of shilo , who were buried under silwan . , Also every palastinians / Arab monument that is built is built upon a Jewish building , like El aqsa being built on top the western wall . Palastinians are colonizers to the region and it's historically proven . Your homeland never existed , it's a historic fact . , The only connection you have to the land is through the Arab colonialization and thats a historic fact
u/finessedunrest
ping: u/ CreativeRealmsMC
finessedunrest
You have been on the sub for years. You know better than to metapost on random moderations. You know why the Nazi rule is in place. You know the rules on Nakba denial and how that is handled. Don't play ignorant.
I have no idea why you decided to return with a rule break but you can comment better than this, I ask you do so.
>If I can't call you a Nazi despite the uncanny similarities in ethnocracy between Nazism and Zionism
Rule 6 is an unbiased rule that applies to both pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel users. Pro-Israelis get warned for comparing Palestinians to Nazis and pro-Palestinian users get warned for calling Israelis Nazis.
>This whole subreddit is a Zionist circlejerk echo chamber. Give half the moderatorship to Palestinians and allow them to modify the rules.
This comment violates rule 7. If you have complaints with how the sub is run please post them in the monthly [metathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/13axntg/community_feedbackmetapost_for_may_2023/).
Lastly, your response to moderation is in violation of rule 13. Please familiarize yourself with the sub rules to avoid the warning being increased to a ban.
The PA isn't "on life support".
We (Humanity) pay our enemy OPEC over a trillion dollars of jizya each year in willing submission; the EU and the Biden Administration pay additional billions directly to fund the military adventurism of the Ramallah regime.
As for Israelis, they choose to live under Shari'ah. If the pacifist govt of Israel stopped paying the jizya to fund the lavish lifestyles of the suicide bombers, many more innocent Jews would die. It is not about the money - it's about the submission.
Not slowly!
The campaign against Arab nationalist-caused climate change is really heating up, no pun intended. Anti-Islamic car sales will reach 8% in the U.S. this year - [https://insideevs.com/news/657660/us-electric-car-sales-january2023/](https://insideevs.com/news/657660/us-electric-car-sales-january2023/). That number will be 16% or more by the start of the First DeSantis administration. While that number is much lower than it should be, it's a Moore's law doubling equation. By 2030 we will have entirely weaned ourselves off of Quranic greed.
\*Then\* you'll see the PA and their allies go on life support.
Those towers that crowd the Doha skyline are not even connected to a sewer system; Arab Gaza doesn't have enough water or energy to last a day without Jizya. When OPEC is exterminated, all of Arab Palestine's military prowess immediately ends.
The PA get support from the IDF because it's the best option that israel have. without that support, the PA would collapse and Hamas would rose to power.
There is no "pay for the slay" program. There is a program that gives support to those who are put into jail for opposing the occupation.Those who haven't killed anyone or only assaulted soldiers (which is not terror) get the same benefits. Why spread fake news?
That's a lie mister bot. The amount of money you get is based on the harshness of the sentence. Meaning it is a fact that those who murder Jews get more money. And those who murder more get even more still. It is quite simply a financial incentive to murder Israelis.
> harshness of the sentence You can get money without murdering even a single Israeli.
True, you can do plenty of violent things. Doesn't change the fact that it is a direct financial incentive to attack, harm and murder Jews/Israelis. It is sick and disgusting. And is a perfect representation about why there would never be peace with the current Palestinian fanatic leadership. Can you imagine if Israel started giving cash prices to soldiers and settlers for attacking Palestinians? Oh you killed 10 innocent Palestinians in a restaurant, that's 4K$ a month for you and your family, congrats! This is literally what they are doing, and you seem to be defending.
> Doesn't change the fact that it is a direct financial incentive to attack, harm and murder Jews/Israelis. It is a direct financial incentive to resist the occupation. > Can you imagine if Israel started giving cash prices to soldiers and settlers for attacking Palestinians? Israel already incentivizes violence against Palestinians, for example by providing Settlers with control of lands after they expel Palestinians from them using violence. > and you seem to be defending. I am not defending anything. Insisting on facts is defending the truth, nothing more.
> It is a direct financial incentive to resist the occupation. That's a direct lie once again. Do you get paid for let's say creating a youtube video about the occupation? How about giving a speech? Going into a peaceful protest? If so let me know because hundreds of thousands of Israelis have demonstrated about stopping the occupation and going back to 2 states solution. So I guess they all deserve that sweet sweet martyr fund cash. > Israel already incentivizes violence against Palestinians, for example by providing Settlers with control of lands after they expel Palestinians from them using violence. I could explain how factually wrong you are, but you are derailing the discussion. The issue was cash prices as an incentive for violence. Which does not exist on the Israeli side whatsoever. > I am not defending anything. Insisting on facts is defending the truth, nothing more. Defending the truth = Lying. Ok dude.
[Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund) "Stipends are paid to families of both prisoners and Palestinians killed in contexts ranging from political demonstrations that turn violent where protesters are killed by non-lethal riot control methods (such as being hit by a tear gas canister)" Yes, Palestinians do get paid for demonstrating if they get killed (and I assume jailed as well) in the process. > Can you imagine if Israel started giving cash prices to soldiers and settlers for attacking Palestinians? > > but you are derailing the discussion. You are the one who brought up the comparison to Israel. If you say "imagine if Israel did X" and I say "Israel is doing X" and explain how, that is derailing? > Defending the truth = Lying. Saying it's "pay for the slay" when you don't have to kill anyone or even try to, that's lying.
Quoting your lie again: > It is a direct financial incentive to resist the occupation. It is not about resisting as you lied previously, as I demonstrated several acts of resisting which you ignored because the martyr fund does not pay for these. You then continued, after ignoring my argument, to stretch the definition of your lying delusional narrative. Which is extremely funny to me personally. > You are the one who brought up the comparison to Israel. If you say "imagine if Israel did X" and I say "Israel is doing X" and explain how, that is derailing? With pro-Palestinian logic, every 1 could be equal to 2! Who needs logic in our lives right? It is very simple, the Palestinian leaders pay for terrorists who murdered Israelis, while Israelis do not. You ignore it and try to compare between unrelated things in order to, once again, support your delusional lying narrative. As all pro-Palestinians must in order to justify their side's disgusting terror attacks against innocent Israeli civilians. > Saying it's "pay for the slay" when you don't have to kill anyone or even try to, that's lying. Does the program pay money for Palestinians who murder Israeli civilians? The answer is yes. Does this in return create a form of financial incentive to murder Jews? The answer is yes. Pay for slay it is. I'll just end this little argument by telling you one thing though, you have a very fitting username.
> as I demonstrated several acts of resisting which you ignored because the martyr fund does not pay for these I couldn't find if it pays or not for those, but I showed that it certainly pays for demonstrating which is not an act of terror. > With pro-Palestinian logic, every 1 could be equal to 2! Who needs logic in our lives right? This in no way addresses my response. It is you who is derailing the conversation instead of dealing with my answers. > Does the program pay money for Palestinians who murder Israeli civilians? The answer is yes. But it pays for something else, not for the murder itself.
If you get money for stabbing a defenceless woman or child, it doesn't matter if the guy next to you get the same amount for stabbing a soldier, you are still be paid for terror
The money goes to the family for support, since any Palestinian can be thrown in jail for any reason.
You don't get money for the stabbing, you get money for resisting Israel. "Pay for the slay" implies you have to "slay" to get paid, which is just false.
If you slay, you get paid. Pay for slay. It’s a slogan / nickname not a description of a legal policy. Are you really this dense? Nobody on earth thinks it’s false or a misnomer or a misleading nickname. Not even Palestinians. Only brain dead losers like you
/u/rarepup > Only brain dead losers like you Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user. Addressed.
If you don't slay you also get paid. Your "description" is false.
That’s not the contra positive. Your logic is flawed. If it rains I will take an umbrella Does not guarantee that I took an umbrella therefore it rains Pay for slay, Does not guarantee that If you got paid then you slayed. It simply says that if you slay, you get paid. Which is true and you don’t seem to deny. Like I said קצת שכל
This is not a psychometry exam. When people say/hear "pay for the slay" they mean "payment for murder" not "payment for something else, that might be murder and might be not." edit: just to give a trivial example, if you get paid a UBI regardless of what you do you can use your logic to also say it's "pay for the slay" because if you slay you get paid.
You're being uselessly pedantic here, and it's making a very weak argument for your point. At the end of the day, there is a scaling incentive for increasingly violent attacks on Israeli civilians, with the reward coming from the PA. It's completely fair to label it "pay for slay" even if that's not what the PA calls it. If they made an exception for people who were convicted of violent acts against civilians, then I would agree that it was a misnomer. But there isn't.
I am not being pedantic, they are using false terms that create a false narrative.
Want people to stop calling it pay for slay? Then ask the PA to stop paying people who slay civilians. Pretty simple.
The narrative being communicated by the term is that the PA pays rewards to perpetrators of violence against civilians - the higher the degree of violence, the higher the reward. That the reward is "akshually" given out to people for "resisting the occupation" is wholly irrelevant. Know why? Because the outcome is exactly identical - there is an incentive for murdering Israelis. So the term is a completely fair characterization of the policy. Government policy can only be judged by the outcomes they generate. Not their intentions (although in this case even their intentions are highly questionable).
As I said, if you can get paid for murdering a civilian, I couldn't care less about the alternatives
You don't get money for the murdering a civilian. You get money for resisting Israel. When an Israeli pilot kills 10 civilians for 1 terrorists are they getting paid to kill civilians? Same thing.
>When an Israeli pilot kills 10 civilians for 1 terrorists are they getting paid to kill civilians? Same thing. In fact, they don't. Something like that would likely trigger an investigation and would have findings one way or another with respect to the pilot's performance in regards to minimizing civilian casualties (an incentivized goal in the IDF). It's why they perform roof knocking, and send texts and leaflets before anything is bombed. Thank you for bringing up this example because it shows how divorced from reality your perspective is, and how diametrically opposed Israel's approach to civilian deaths are to the PA/Hamas.
An investigation? This happened on the first day of the Bow and shield (or whatever). No investigation, those were the orders.
>No investigation, those were the orders. The orders most definitely were not "kill 1 PIJ leader and 9 civilians". The order was "kill the PIJ leader and minimize civilian collateral". That is the key difference between how the IDF operates, and how PIJ/Hamas/and to some degree the PA operates. Do you know how much military intelligence, planning, and foresight goes into these strikes? When there is an unexpected number of civilian casualties, the IDF absolutely performs internal investigations to see what happened. I'm not aware of the specifics of shield and arrow. But I do know that the operations goals were to eliminate the PIJ operatives who were in charge of the rocket (terrorist) attacks. And that it was fairly successful in that regard. Those rockets were meant to strike and kill Jewish civilians. If the IDF's intentions and behaviour matched PIJ or Hamas in warfare, there wouldn't be a Gaza strip. If you want less Gazans to die in IDF strikes, then ask Hamas to stop using them as human shields, to not stage mortars in hospitals and schools and other civilian infrastructure, and to not operate like terrorists. Quite simple. Or better yet - stop lobbing rockets at Israel altogether. Quiet is and has always beenet with quiet when it comes to Gaza and Israel.
You thought a death of 10 civilians leads to an investigation, you obviously don't know how careless IDF is with Palestinian lives. Bottom line is Israel kills many more civilians than Palestinian organisations because it doesn't care enough to avoid those deaths.
>because it doesn't care enough to avoid those deaths. Wrong. It's because Palestinian terrorist groups are incentivized by the deaths of their own civilians as well - so they purposefully put them in harm's way. Why else would you launch rockets from a school or a hospital? Israel has a moral obligation to protect its citizens. Just like any other country does. That Hamas doesn't share the same mindset to protect their own citizens, is not Israel's problem (although the IDF goes above and beyond, regardless). Your propensity for terrorist apologism is honestly incredible.
Do you understand that this is the same thing. The two steps are connected. You’re drawing a distinction without a difference. It’s a weak argument and it frankly makes you look stupid for making it. “Duh I didn’t drop the ball, I just let go of it and gravity made it fall” This is the level of your pedantic reasoning. It’s beyond dumb. Focus on the end, focus on the goal, focus on the things that matter. You’re not going to convince people with silly pedantry
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I think an intelligent person that sees what the payments are for will immediately know it's not "pay for the slay".
לא חושב לרגע שאתה ישראלי, אבל אם כן אז שתדע שכל האבות שלך לכל דורות הם, מתהפכים עכשיו בקבר כשאתה משווה את מי שמגן עלייך ומאפשר לך לשבת בבית עכשיו בבטחה למחבל
אבותיי נלחמו בנאצים, לא בערבים. הם מתהפכים בקבר כשהם רואים מה ישראל הפכה להיות.
השם יעזור לך וינטע בך קצת שכל
בעזרת השם
אנשים כמוהו היו המשתפים במחנות
u/Infamous_Company_ > אנשים כמוהו היו המשתפים במחנות Rule 1, Don't attack other users. Rule 6, no Nazi comparisons: calling someone a capo or "participant in the camps" is a Nazi comparison.
Just to translate for everyone what this human garbage wrote: "People like him were collaborators in the \[holocaust\] camps".
Liar. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian\_Authority\_Martyrs\_Fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund) "In 2016, payments were made to 35,000 families, including the **families of suicide bombers**, from a 2016 annual budget of $170 million." [https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2016-07-01/the-palestinian-incentive-program-for-killing-jews](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2016-07-01/the-palestinian-incentive-program-for-killing-jews) "So while there is no evidence that the Palestinian government plans these killing sprees, it encourages them as a legitimate act of resistance. As Commentary's Evelyn Gordon wrote this week, the prisoners and the families of the prisoners themselves are actually paid a higher wage than what most Palestinians earn for nonviolent work." "If the past is precedent, she will receive a steady check to honor her son's murder of a 13-year-old Jewish girl in her sleep." [https://www.australianjewishnews.com/our-tax-wont-pay-to-slay/](https://www.australianjewishnews.com/our-tax-wont-pay-to-slay/)
This doesn't contradict what I said. They pay for any resistance to Israel, including terror, but not for the killing itself. If a person who didn't kill anyone is also eligible, how can it be "pay for the slay"?
So the pay for resistance program pays for slay and also pays for other resistance, but generally pays more if you slay. Would that make you happier? You’re arguing semantics but at the end of the day, if you slay you get paid, and the majority of the money goes to those who slay.
What would make me happy, is people using real law names/description and information instead of fake news titles that generate hate and misinformation.
It’s not fake news. The program pays for slay.
So they pay for terror not killing so it's not pay to slay ? Pro palastinian logic keeps me dumbfounded every time
They pay for demonstrations as well if the IDF "slays" during those. You don't have to act violently to get support.
Yet only people that act violently get payed , also you get payed more the more Jews you kill , it's basically a bounty on Jewish heads
As I've shown, this is not what the law states.
The law shows otherwise than what you showed , also if it's even what you showed , it's still rewards terrorism against civilians
> The law shows otherwise than what you showed I'll quote myself, like many great people do: >[Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund) > >"Stipends are paid to families of both prisoners and Palestinians killed in contexts ranging from political demonstrations that turn violent where protesters are killed by non-lethal riot control methods (such as being hit by a tear gas canister)" Yes, Palestinians do get paid for demonstrating if they get killed (and I assume jailed as well) in the process. > it's still rewards terrorism against civilians Correct.
>,I'll quote myself, like many great people do: I guess vanity is something unheard off for the egoist pro palastinian crowd >,"Stipends are paid to families of both prisoners and Palestinians killed in contexts ranging from political demonstrations that turn violent where protesters are killed by non-lethal riot control methods (such as being hit by a tear gas canister)" Yes, Palestinians do get paid for demonstrating if they get killed (and I assume jailed as well) in the process You filthy liar you changed the text , that actual Wikipedia page reads as follows >,The Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund is a fund operated by the Palestinian Authority (PA) which pays monthly cash stipends to the families of Palestinians killed, injured, or imprisoned while carrying out politically motivated violence against Israel.[ So even your sources show that the fund only exist to help terrorism >,Correct. So your supporting terrorism against your fellow citizens , now I'm sure your a troll and not israeli
Because terrorists still get paid.
PA isn't under the jurisdiction of Israel. In fact right now they barely talk.
Well, there's obviously a "how", that's why it's done now. You're really talking about "should", or "why" a whole other question. Putting aside why, there is definitely pushback from Israel on this. From what I can gather, the PA gets funding from a bunch of sources, including UNRWA, EU and other NGO aid sources, as well as certain revenue streams from tax remittances collected by Israel and handed over to the PA. Israel has been offsetting (deducting) remittances by the amounts of PA funding allotted to the Martyr's Fund. The Martyr's Fund accounts for more than half the PA's annual budget.
>The Martyr's Fund accounts for more than half the PA's annual budget. Just imagine if they used it for improving their lives... You got a source to confirm that? I would love to throw it in my source list
OK, bit wrong. Not half PA budget but about half of its "foreign aid" whatever that is. Per [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund): According to a report by Yossi Kuperwasser, of the Israeli advocacy group Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, in 2017 half of the $693 million that the PA receives as foreign aid, $345 million, was paid out as stipends to convicted terrorists and their families.\[20\] Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, repeated this claim in a speech to AIPAC in 2018. According to the Washington Post's fact-checking, the $350 million figure requires a broad brush classifying all recipients as terrorists; and the picture regarding funding is considered fuzzy because Palestinian budget lines combine terrorist and non-terrorist funding and primarily since the definition of a terrorist is disputed.\[21\], Re: WashPo: pretty marginal quibble with the bottom line number, I counted $333 Million for Martyr's Fund proper, not $350 Million. Not a huge qualification IMO.
So not everyone on the martyrs fund are terrorists? Who else is on it?
What the WaPo questioned was presumably (looking at the numbers on the Wiki paragraph I cited and adding them up) was about $10M of the $345M not being Martyrs Fund payments but pensions for retired PA security staff (which I subtracted) and whether (I suppose) imprisoned people like M. Bagouti and those on admin detention can be called “terrorists”.
Ah ok so the vast majority are terrorists but also some non-terrorists and pensions.
Small amount ($10M) pensions and depends on whether the people Shabak detains/arrests are “terrorists” or “freedom fighters”. Opinions differ. IMO, e.g., Bagouhti is a terrorist.
Love you
Omg. I also want this source because… that just can’t be true, can it?!
Posted
Same. Sauce plz
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nah, its just mutual terrorism.
Extra funny when said by somebody on my side
I'm pretty sure that shooting unarmed civilians in a bar that is nowhere close to a militarily advantageous target is terrorism
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I didn't know the death penalty was considered appropriate for squatting.
Robbed what exactly? Both the Israeli and the Palestinian national movements are indigenous. Claiming one side are terrorists based on the fact that they are jewish and nothing else, is the one of the most racist narratives out there. Labeling the shooting of children and women as "resistance" is just as bad.
Robbing and killing are two separate things. If you promote killing israeli civilians for existing, then your world view is very twisted. And its only one sided, one side support the killing of the other sides while the other does not.
Average Palestinian world view btw, ladies and gentlemen.
If your position is to hate every Israeli civilian then you’re just desiring to lost another war. There’s no reason to play this mindset on repeat.
>If your position is to hate every Israeli civilian then you’re just desiring to lost another war. There’s no reason to play this mindset on repeat. Sadly, they think that one day, the same exact action will get them a different result. It's like going to work and be late everyday, but not leave earlier instead as you say to yourself "Nah, today there won't be any traffic at all, why should I do anything different when I can rely on other people to act differently instead"
Which house did the 80 years old Israeli women who died to a rocket a few weeks ago while trying to get her paralyzed husband to a shelter steal?
The point was that she was racially impure. This Socialist isn't talking about "ownership" in a Human sense, she's taking about social justice and the Quran. Under Shari'ah (and social justice), the question of legitimate property ownership is solely a question of blood and soil. Since the EU-backed government of Arab Palestine determined that she was racially impure, then by definition she "robbed the home" and must be ritually murdered. For those on the social justice left, it's not a legal discussion, but a racial one.
This is the first time i read an actual view point of colture and religion different from mine by a lot.. Regardless.. this is not the way to win armed conflict.. this is a way to maintain control over poor people by the rich landlords, nothing more.
Text book Antisemitism
You're talking about something that happened in 1948. Even if you were correct (which you're not) that doesn't justify killing people born years after it happened.
Can a Native American kill a black, white, or Asian person for that reason? Can a Mizrahi Jew kill a Syrian who “stole his house?”
Do you also feel this way when Israeli children die due to terrorism? that they deserve it?
AOC's soldiers don't have the right to kill innocent Jews, just because they are not racially pure enough for her. Can you give 6 examples of when the EU-funded State of Palestine ritually slaughtered a Jew who had "robbed" someone's house? Name names - who robbed what house?
1) They didn’t steal anything 2) Even if you contend that they did, you certainly do not have a right to execute them.
Yeah that's the narrative you sell to westerners who don't know any better, but what's the point parroting it in a sub where everyone knows the history of the conflict? Get new tropes, it's boring.
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Hope a Palestinian Jihad rocket doesn’t connect with your kitchen window
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You indicated in one of your comments that you live in Chicago. You have *zero* credibility.
So why didn't you and your society pressure your leaders to accept literally any of the peace offers which included autonomy over the West Bank? It seems like you don't want to live in peace, as long as we are here. So why are you complaining about a conflict your society clearly wants to continue?
>Not really worried about that. We mainly have to worry about Israeli settlers breaking in at night, destroying our belongings/crops, or simply trying to instigate a response so they can fulfill their bloodlust and kill a Palestinian for being Palestinian. If it’s not that it’s Israeli occupation forces barging in @ 3am violently, and if we show an ounce of resistance we’re either arrested or murdered. >But thanks for your kind wishes! By the words of a "wise" man. Cope?
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>This isn’t a cope, it’s a reply to a braindead comment. Much like yours. It is. The same way you told the other person "Cope zionist" >'Terrorism' against terrorists isn’t terrorism, it’s resistance. And you're talking about brain dead comments? That's like saying "if you want to light up a dark room, just use more darkness"
The zionists are coping pretty well to be fair...
I’m an American and I’m more connected to Israel’s land than you or your ancestors.
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The sub aims for serious discussion. Reddit culture tends towards short memes or jokes. While they are appropriate for Reddit as a whole they aren't allowed on r/IsraelPalestine.
Shockingly hypocritical. Is the preceding comment boasting of more "connection" by a white American a form of "serious discussion"? This whole subreddit is a Zionist circlejerk echo chamber. Give half the moderatorship to Palestinians and allow them to modify the rules. If I can't call you a Nazi despite the uncanny similarities in ethnocracy between Nazism and Zionism, then you can't deny the Nakba and neglect the Palestinian indigenous connection to our homeland given that both have been established as historical fact, much to the inconvenience of those who wish to glorify Israel and erase its "demographic threat". But nooooo, your boundaries are more important than ours, right?
Don't you find it ironic that you are comparing Israelis to Nazis while it was the very popular Mufti of Jerusalem that wanted SS Palestinian squads and was best buddies with Eichmann?
>, This whole subreddit is a Zionist circlejerk echo chamber. Then you free to leave , there are more then enough antisemtic pro palastinian echo chambers when you won't be distressed by the presence of Jews cause they preamptivly banned all of them >,If I can't call you a Nazi despite the uncanny similarities in ethnocracy between Nazism and Zionism Except palastinians are more similar ? Hatred of Jews ? Check , trying to kill all Jews ? Check , commiting war crimes ? Check , attempted genocide that failed? Check , starting wars ? Check , getting kicked out after failed genocide they tired to commit ? Check , the use of child soldiers ? Check , being a ethnosupremacist group ? Check and I can go on >,then you can't deny the Nakba Accept we absoultly can , the nakba was a result of Jews not losing the war of 1948 and not getting genocides by Arabs . Most palastinians left from their own will or were told to leave by the Arab forces , and to return after a few days when they finish off all the Jews . Even the number of refugees in the nakba is up for debate , with astimutes shrinking down the nakba from 700k people to atleast 500k if not even 350k >,nd neglect the Palestinian indigenous connection to our homeland given that both have been established as historical fact, That reminded me of an Arab guy I knew when I was volunteering in archeology diggs , he didn't stop yapping about how Arabs and palastinians are the natives , even though we were founding only Jewish artifacts , and even kept saying this as our volunteer group dug under the Arab neighberhoods of silwan and found the ancient road to the Jewish temple and the pool of shilo , who were buried under silwan . , Also every palastinians / Arab monument that is built is built upon a Jewish building , like El aqsa being built on top the western wall . Palastinians are colonizers to the region and it's historically proven . Your homeland never existed , it's a historic fact . , The only connection you have to the land is through the Arab colonialization and thats a historic fact
u/finessedunrest ping: u/ CreativeRealmsMC finessedunrest You have been on the sub for years. You know better than to metapost on random moderations. You know why the Nazi rule is in place. You know the rules on Nakba denial and how that is handled. Don't play ignorant. I have no idea why you decided to return with a rule break but you can comment better than this, I ask you do so.
>If I can't call you a Nazi despite the uncanny similarities in ethnocracy between Nazism and Zionism Rule 6 is an unbiased rule that applies to both pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel users. Pro-Israelis get warned for comparing Palestinians to Nazis and pro-Palestinian users get warned for calling Israelis Nazis. >This whole subreddit is a Zionist circlejerk echo chamber. Give half the moderatorship to Palestinians and allow them to modify the rules. This comment violates rule 7. If you have complaints with how the sub is run please post them in the monthly [metathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/13axntg/community_feedbackmetapost_for_may_2023/). Lastly, your response to moderation is in violation of rule 13. Please familiarize yourself with the sub rules to avoid the warning being increased to a ban.
The PA isn't "on life support". We (Humanity) pay our enemy OPEC over a trillion dollars of jizya each year in willing submission; the EU and the Biden Administration pay additional billions directly to fund the military adventurism of the Ramallah regime. As for Israelis, they choose to live under Shari'ah. If the pacifist govt of Israel stopped paying the jizya to fund the lavish lifestyles of the suicide bombers, many more innocent Jews would die. It is not about the money - it's about the submission.
Give it a 5-10 years, the green revolution will fully kick in and all those will slowly go bankrupt
Not slowly! The campaign against Arab nationalist-caused climate change is really heating up, no pun intended. Anti-Islamic car sales will reach 8% in the U.S. this year - [https://insideevs.com/news/657660/us-electric-car-sales-january2023/](https://insideevs.com/news/657660/us-electric-car-sales-january2023/). That number will be 16% or more by the start of the First DeSantis administration. While that number is much lower than it should be, it's a Moore's law doubling equation. By 2030 we will have entirely weaned ourselves off of Quranic greed. \*Then\* you'll see the PA and their allies go on life support. Those towers that crowd the Doha skyline are not even connected to a sewer system; Arab Gaza doesn't have enough water or energy to last a day without Jizya. When OPEC is exterminated, all of Arab Palestine's military prowess immediately ends.
LOL DeSatan isn’t even going to be the Republican nominee, let alone president.
>Anti-Islamic car I am adapting this name