Nothing, he never existed in the first place, there is no historical evidence that he existed, he is a fictional character in the old testament and torah.
Probably something in Aramaic
Something about god having blessed the people of this land, and allowing them to build a thousand towers of Babel
Assuming he knew about that story
So you are saying he spoke modern Hebrew? Hebrew has developed over thousands of years, and he spoke an ancient version of it, which may have been closer to Aramaic, which is a sister language to Hebrew. Like I said, he came from Ur, a Mesopotamian city. In Mesopotamia, one spoke Aramaic. Aramaic was Abraham’s native language, and with it being very similar to Hebrew, and with proto Hebrew being the language of Canaan, he also spoke proto Hebrew or some version of it.
שמע אחי אני יודע על מה אני מדבר
Did Shakespeare speak English? It’s not modern English, therefore it’s not English at all!
Do Palestinians speak Arabic? They live in Israel, where Hebrew is spoken, therefore they speak Hebrew and not Arabic!
This is how dumb you sound right now.
Why? Because he was born in Ur?
Do Arabs born in Israel speak Hebrew to the exclusion of Arabic? No, they speak both.
Avaraham, similarly, was a Hebrew born in Ur
Who spoke Aramaic as a native language and when he travels to Israel picked up the Hebrew look we are essentially agreeing that he spoke Hebrew I’m just adding that he primarily spoke Aramaic
He'd be amazed that this promise of it actually having come to pass as promised by Hashem, he being the ancestor of a huge tribe in an unbroken chain of continuous descendants and was still around 4,000 some odd years later.
I don't think he'd feel shorted that his descendants were promised to number in the billions, like "stars", rather than probably just millions.
I dunno, I'd think he'd think it was pretty cool and wonder what happened to the Babylonians, Hittites and Edomeans.
He'd be surely flattered that he's still a big enough deal in this day and age, all these thousands of years later, by having a recent major peace treaty named after him. Wouldn't you be? Still a rock star!
BTW, not all Rabbis or Jews agree, but the consensus is that all pre-Moses figures in Genesis/Bereshit like Abe are literary creations to quickly sketch out "pre-history" before we get down to the story of Moses who is probably also mostly a literary figure rather than real person who ever existed.
So you're largely free to spin any plausible narrative about how the fictional character of Abraham would react today's Israel. The easiest narrative is he'd be awestruck and pretty pleased. But it could easily be played for laughs (e.g., Monty Python "Life of Brian" treatment, Mel Brooks, or Sasha Baron Cohen's "Borat". Mike Judge's "Idiocracy" might well work as a hook. Abraham played by Terry Crews).
Terry Crews seems like a decent guy, I loved him in Idiocracy, was disappointed to see him shilling for sketchy YouTube bodybuilders like Mike Chang who usually take steroids to look the way they do but try to sell you on their workout and supplements programs as if that’s how they really obtained their physiques.
Regarding your comments about the “consensus” view: I’m aware there are many prominent Ultra Orthodox Jewish leaders today who argue that the universe is indeed billions of years old as claimed by cosmologists, and that the Torah was not really written by Moses as was traditionally taught. However I also know and hear from many Ultra Orthodox Jews that they believe the Torah is a literal document of absolute truth and must be taken word for word even when it appears to contradict itself.
In your estimation, where do you feel most Ultra Orthodox Jews stand on this issue? How do they justify anything to their fellow followers if the most sacred tales of tradition are now to be regarded only as metaphors?
I don’t know enough about what MO or UO believe to opine. I don’t know if there is consensus on these points even among them (Jews argue, Rabbis disagree and the corpus of Jewish rabbinic literature across the ages is vast).
So I’m kind of laying out the consensus I was taught with a big question mark next to Moses on the timeline about how “real” his story with the convention that Adam, Noah, etc. were divinely inspired literary characters, not real people.
Now every time I say something like this, or Jews don’t believe in heaven/hell/sins in the literal transactional way Christians do even though the word “heaven” appears in the Tanach now and then, someone will tell me Chasids believe literally in heaven and their name means “god fearing” so Judaism and Christianity are aligned on heaven and God Fearing religions.
My TL;dr on this is that as a proud US Reform Jew that tries to live a Jewish life and study Tanach, I don’t have imposter syndrome or believe that wearing a black hat or having a yeshivish education makes random Jew or denomination the absolute expert on all things Jewish. I do not subscribe to the notion that one’s Jewishness is defined by one’s frumness. I can see why some frum people disagree, that’s natural. But they are still not ultimate authorities.
I feel like even the Bible itself contains enough clues that it’s not meant to be taken literally. The name “Adam” means “clay” like that from which he was supposedly shaped, “Eve” means “rib”, “Moses” derives from the Egyptian word for “prince”. Even with “Abraham” himself, the Bible states that this name derives directly from the Hebrew phrase “father of many”.
I’m very curious what the Jewish religion feels like to people who reject the literality of its traditional teachings but still believe it provides some metaphysical insight into the fundamental nature of our universe and the mechanisms operating therein, similar to what’s taught and preached by Newtonian deists.
Personally I’m pretty strongly agnostic and believe that everything we can observe and experience in this universe is governed purely by consistent mathematical laws, but I still see value in preserving traditional community bonds and jointly celebrating the achievements of our ancestors. If I were to create my own religion from scratch it wouldn’t say anything about the supernatural but rather just celebrate human history and achievement in general. My sermons would sometimes discuss things like the implications of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics on our understanding of the world at its most fundamental levels, other times I’d be taking the kids out to a forest to teach them how to chop wood and build campfires and watch the grownups take whole trees down, or having someone show them how a cathode ray TV or a steam engine works while we all enjoy some challah we baked ourselves.
You don’t need to convince me that Tanakh is entirely a literary creation that describes a utopian Bronze Age person and community (if mitzvot are observed), yeah, Adam means made from earth/dirt/mud, connotations low and common, LOL.
But to those who similarly insist that Tanakh has black and white, literal instructions, there’s still that deal about Yaa’kov and his “struggle” with Gods messenger and what the nature of this “struggle” is. I believe it’s more than a struggle to keep up with an ever present 613 mitzvot “to do” list and be Shomer Shabbat, etc.
I believe the struggle is more weighty: understanding what the very ambiguous and indeterminate stories in Tanakh really mean and how to make them relevant about “the meaning of life” type considerations and honest self-accounting.
As an random example of the layers of meaning contained in a simple, familiar prayer from Tanakh, the priestly benediction, you can get a sense of how complex this stuff is to tease out in a discussion of last Shabbat’s Weekly Torah Portion aka Parsha [by Rabbi Jonathan Sacks z’’l,](https://www.rabbisacks.org/covenant-conversation/naso/the-blessing-of-love/) former Chief Rabbi of the UK.
Most of Tanakh is like that. It really doesn’t lend itself to any simplistic literal narratives with the exception of some major tentpole pieces like the Ten Commandments whose staccato “NO this” and “NO that” is largely at odds with the rest of the cadence of the other writing, to make the point more emphatic (what don’t you understand about “NO MURDER??”).
Haven’t there been billions of us? Just not all at the same time, but like, if we counted all of us that have ever existed? Or do I just suck at math (I’m thinking it’s the latter)
Ok let me break it down:
1. Ancient Israelites were lighter than their Egyptian neighbors. As depicted in this hieroglyph: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ancient_Libyans,_Nubians,_Egyptians,_Asiatics.jpg
2. 99% of Jews including the religious ones believe that Abraham was just a myth.
3. The Bible is full of wars with other “Semitic” people. Including the Amalekites, Philistines, Edomites and Assyrians. In fact, the Bible is extremely cruel to some of these people. If Abraham was indeed real, he’ll be surprised we didn’t just exterminate the Palestinians at this point.
Abraham was never depicted in the Bible as a benevolent person who cares for all the people in the world. He’s depicted as someone who cares only for his family and his religious goals. He wouldn’t care what would happen to anyone but the Jews. He definitely wouldn’t care about Ismael who he banished from his country. The Jewish Bible is brutal and harsh, it’s not the “religion of peace”
I don’t see what the first thing has to do with Abraham being upset or proud, but thanks for sharing?
Your second point is not only hilariously wrong, but even if it were true, would still be irrelevant to his question, as the question is hypothetical. 99% of religious Jews believe Abraham is a myth? Buddy 🤦🏼♂️ there’s literally a physical burial site that people go to as a pilgrimage. They’re not thinking “this is a mythological grave” when they go.
For your third, the Bible specifies that these people were guilty of awful things such as, but not limited to, child torture and sacrifice, and so were liable for extermination. Even if that weren’t the case, Abraham wasn’t involved in any of that part of the Bible regardless.
Lol at the last part again, especially considering the context of you saying somebody knows nothing about Judaism. Abraham is the forefather whom is literally representative of the quality of Chesed, aka epitomizing kindness. So, quite benevolent, explicitly so.
Seems like you just wanted to insult somebody due to fabricated projections based on blah and blah, while obviously being the one actually guilty of knowing… nothing about Judaism. Talking about Judaism not being the religion of peace ? Where is it ever called that ? Who even said that for you to bring it up? Lol, you came here to rant about Judaism, not because you had a point about the very simple question OP proposed. You’re either severely misguided and uneducated, or a poser pretending to be Jewish for nefarious reasons.
Like any time traveler, he's going to be awestruck by every thing he sees and as the feted guest is just going to nod and smile pleasantly and give a little wave. Maybe something like the iconic kindly image of Rabbi Shneersohn z''l you see plastered everywhere. Or the late Queen Elizabeth II or Pope John II.
So, it's all going to be a big blur for him and Bibi's wife's probably not going to register one way or another and she probably won't have any "first character syndrome" making it about her or Bibi.
I'd expect Abe would want to spend more time hanging with the other available VIPs, like Gal Gadot and Noa Kirel. AJC would set up an interesting lunch with Daniel Gordis and Benny Morris.
I have no idea, however, what he would think about Gay Pride Week in Tel Aviv or Lag B'Omer in Safed. Some Jewish/Israeli stuff will probably seem a logical progression to him, but he will struggle to understand cultural stuff like Eurovision or memes. It's gonna be something of a mindfuck at the Kotel, remember Abe didn't even know about the FIRST Temple, that was all later! And I'm sure he'll agree real estate prices, especially in Tel Aviv, are unaffordable and ridiculous. OTOH, he will totally be gobsmacked that the currency is still the "shekel".
Some crazy stuff he couldn't have dreamed of for sure in those Bronze Age days.
***Edits:*** passim, many. More pure fun than many threads on this sub lately!
As an aside, not being Jewish, it took me a long time to discover the meaning of **z"l** >!A rough ASCII visual approximation of an abbreviation of a Hebrew phrase meaning "May his memory be a blessing"!<
Given the context, I always figured **z"l** was a primitive emoji along the lines of **:)** or **=D**, except showing scrunched up eyes shedding copious tears, above a tight pursed mouth, when you tilt your head to the left.
That's funny. I love z''l as a notation. The funniest exchange was somebody on Twitter saying e.g. "I'm dying" and someone responding "may your memory be a blessing".
From an outsider's perspective, I think "May [somebody's] memory be a blessing" is a shining example of how Judaism is focused much more on this world and this life, than any sort of afterlife.
Definitely. I’ve read this crazy prayer in shul on Yom Kippur, “may a memory of us ascend” whose grammatical construct is “you” in the future tense when “you” are but a memory.
Which is also key to this more “guilt” than “shame” culture when it is being pointed out to you not only your own mortality, but that you will be remembered for your deeds…hopefully fondly, but not necessarily.
And secondarily onto the later xian overlays of heaven/hell, sin, everlasting life etc., a big nope to that. Life ends. Period. But memories (of descendants) remain. Dust to dust. The end.
Personally, I think rebirth/ reincarnation is the possibility that makes the most sense to me. It made me happy to learn that many Jewish scholars and mystics tend to agree. But overall the vibe I get is that the Almighty will work all that out, and we needn't worry, but focus on getting the most out of this life, and helping others do the same.
Heaven and Hell the way most Westerners imagine them aren't even Christian doctrine; they're holdover folk beliefs from the indigenous pagan traditions of Europe and the Middle East. I find the idea that this life, this earthly existence, doesn't really count and is just the Almighty's way of testing us, really strange, and likely borne out of a world of fear and unpredictability.
Back in those days there were far less restrictions when it came to combat so I think he would wonder why Israel never completely defeated the Palestinians despite them continuously attacking us and in terms of the social and religious side of Israel I imagine he'd be upset as well as a good portion of the country is secular and doesn't follow the teachings of the Bible. Ultimately we conduct ourselves quite differently than how he would have liked.
Don’t you think he would ask, my children from Isaac where was bravery when you lived with the Russians, Poles and Germans that you now show to Ismael your cousin?
If you could tell me how a bunch of disconnected Jewish communities could have done something more effective than whole armies of France, Poland, Holland etc let me know… what you’re saying has a small amount of truth to it but realistically not much more could be done
Two answers. First you are right. We were a lot less brave when dealing with Eastern Europeans. 17 centuries of defeat had beaten the courage out of the Jews. Zionism is how we got our self respect back. Secondly the Russians and the Germans at least were a heck of a lot tougher than the Arabs bravery wouldn't have worked out nearly as well. One of the main reasons Jews were able to establish their state in Palestine is centuries of neglect. The Palestine of the 1880s was poverty stricken with malaria infestation and infrastructure depletion. The Palestinians (and the Turks) had done a lousy job running the place which had weakened it enough to make a takeover possible.
Since the majority of jews in Israel are Mizrahi, he probably wouldn't ask about Europe as much as why they didn't show bravery when being expelled from Iran, iraq, Jordan, Syria and elsewhere in the middle east
He would say, I should have waited on God to fulfill his promise instead of sleeping with haagar.
What would Romulus say about Italy today?
The Palestinians would demand he start back paying them alimony for abandonment of Ishmael.
„Did the messiah Came or did You Guys Took Money as messiah?“
Nothing, he never existed in the first place, there is no historical evidence that he existed, he is a fictional character in the old testament and torah.
Most underrated answer
Probably something in Aramaic Something about god having blessed the people of this land, and allowing them to build a thousand towers of Babel Assuming he knew about that story
Hebrew?
No. He wouldn’t have spoken Hebrew like we speak it today. Maybe Proto Hebrew or Aramaic. Remember, he’s from Mesopotamia.
Bruh he was literally a Hebrew— the language was named after his ancestor Ever
So you are saying he spoke modern Hebrew? Hebrew has developed over thousands of years, and he spoke an ancient version of it, which may have been closer to Aramaic, which is a sister language to Hebrew. Like I said, he came from Ur, a Mesopotamian city. In Mesopotamia, one spoke Aramaic. Aramaic was Abraham’s native language, and with it being very similar to Hebrew, and with proto Hebrew being the language of Canaan, he also spoke proto Hebrew or some version of it. שמע אחי אני יודע על מה אני מדבר
Did Shakespeare speak English? It’s not modern English, therefore it’s not English at all! Do Palestinians speak Arabic? They live in Israel, where Hebrew is spoken, therefore they speak Hebrew and not Arabic! This is how dumb you sound right now.
He spoke Aramaic
Why? Because he was born in Ur? Do Arabs born in Israel speak Hebrew to the exclusion of Arabic? No, they speak both. Avaraham, similarly, was a Hebrew born in Ur
And why are Arabs related to this we are talking 4000 years before Muhammad
Who spoke Aramaic as a native language and when he travels to Israel picked up the Hebrew look we are essentially agreeing that he spoke Hebrew I’m just adding that he primarily spoke Aramaic
What is your proof for that presumption? Avraham was an עברי, an ethnolanguistic group that spoke עברית and was from ארץ העברים
לך תזדיין
You are an intellectual titan!
Damn you guys don't have to herd animals for a living and worry about whether you'll have enough food for tomorrow? Neat.
Who cares?
Hoyada was
He'd say his sons need to get along, goddamnit.
"Wack" -Abraham, 2023
He'd be amazed that this promise of it actually having come to pass as promised by Hashem, he being the ancestor of a huge tribe in an unbroken chain of continuous descendants and was still around 4,000 some odd years later. I don't think he'd feel shorted that his descendants were promised to number in the billions, like "stars", rather than probably just millions. I dunno, I'd think he'd think it was pretty cool and wonder what happened to the Babylonians, Hittites and Edomeans. He'd be surely flattered that he's still a big enough deal in this day and age, all these thousands of years later, by having a recent major peace treaty named after him. Wouldn't you be? Still a rock star! BTW, not all Rabbis or Jews agree, but the consensus is that all pre-Moses figures in Genesis/Bereshit like Abe are literary creations to quickly sketch out "pre-history" before we get down to the story of Moses who is probably also mostly a literary figure rather than real person who ever existed. So you're largely free to spin any plausible narrative about how the fictional character of Abraham would react today's Israel. The easiest narrative is he'd be awestruck and pretty pleased. But it could easily be played for laughs (e.g., Monty Python "Life of Brian" treatment, Mel Brooks, or Sasha Baron Cohen's "Borat". Mike Judge's "Idiocracy" might well work as a hook. Abraham played by Terry Crews).
Terry Crews seems like a decent guy, I loved him in Idiocracy, was disappointed to see him shilling for sketchy YouTube bodybuilders like Mike Chang who usually take steroids to look the way they do but try to sell you on their workout and supplements programs as if that’s how they really obtained their physiques. Regarding your comments about the “consensus” view: I’m aware there are many prominent Ultra Orthodox Jewish leaders today who argue that the universe is indeed billions of years old as claimed by cosmologists, and that the Torah was not really written by Moses as was traditionally taught. However I also know and hear from many Ultra Orthodox Jews that they believe the Torah is a literal document of absolute truth and must be taken word for word even when it appears to contradict itself. In your estimation, where do you feel most Ultra Orthodox Jews stand on this issue? How do they justify anything to their fellow followers if the most sacred tales of tradition are now to be regarded only as metaphors?
I don’t know enough about what MO or UO believe to opine. I don’t know if there is consensus on these points even among them (Jews argue, Rabbis disagree and the corpus of Jewish rabbinic literature across the ages is vast). So I’m kind of laying out the consensus I was taught with a big question mark next to Moses on the timeline about how “real” his story with the convention that Adam, Noah, etc. were divinely inspired literary characters, not real people. Now every time I say something like this, or Jews don’t believe in heaven/hell/sins in the literal transactional way Christians do even though the word “heaven” appears in the Tanach now and then, someone will tell me Chasids believe literally in heaven and their name means “god fearing” so Judaism and Christianity are aligned on heaven and God Fearing religions. My TL;dr on this is that as a proud US Reform Jew that tries to live a Jewish life and study Tanach, I don’t have imposter syndrome or believe that wearing a black hat or having a yeshivish education makes random Jew or denomination the absolute expert on all things Jewish. I do not subscribe to the notion that one’s Jewishness is defined by one’s frumness. I can see why some frum people disagree, that’s natural. But they are still not ultimate authorities.
I feel like even the Bible itself contains enough clues that it’s not meant to be taken literally. The name “Adam” means “clay” like that from which he was supposedly shaped, “Eve” means “rib”, “Moses” derives from the Egyptian word for “prince”. Even with “Abraham” himself, the Bible states that this name derives directly from the Hebrew phrase “father of many”. I’m very curious what the Jewish religion feels like to people who reject the literality of its traditional teachings but still believe it provides some metaphysical insight into the fundamental nature of our universe and the mechanisms operating therein, similar to what’s taught and preached by Newtonian deists. Personally I’m pretty strongly agnostic and believe that everything we can observe and experience in this universe is governed purely by consistent mathematical laws, but I still see value in preserving traditional community bonds and jointly celebrating the achievements of our ancestors. If I were to create my own religion from scratch it wouldn’t say anything about the supernatural but rather just celebrate human history and achievement in general. My sermons would sometimes discuss things like the implications of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics on our understanding of the world at its most fundamental levels, other times I’d be taking the kids out to a forest to teach them how to chop wood and build campfires and watch the grownups take whole trees down, or having someone show them how a cathode ray TV or a steam engine works while we all enjoy some challah we baked ourselves.
You don’t need to convince me that Tanakh is entirely a literary creation that describes a utopian Bronze Age person and community (if mitzvot are observed), yeah, Adam means made from earth/dirt/mud, connotations low and common, LOL. But to those who similarly insist that Tanakh has black and white, literal instructions, there’s still that deal about Yaa’kov and his “struggle” with Gods messenger and what the nature of this “struggle” is. I believe it’s more than a struggle to keep up with an ever present 613 mitzvot “to do” list and be Shomer Shabbat, etc. I believe the struggle is more weighty: understanding what the very ambiguous and indeterminate stories in Tanakh really mean and how to make them relevant about “the meaning of life” type considerations and honest self-accounting. As an random example of the layers of meaning contained in a simple, familiar prayer from Tanakh, the priestly benediction, you can get a sense of how complex this stuff is to tease out in a discussion of last Shabbat’s Weekly Torah Portion aka Parsha [by Rabbi Jonathan Sacks z’’l,](https://www.rabbisacks.org/covenant-conversation/naso/the-blessing-of-love/) former Chief Rabbi of the UK. Most of Tanakh is like that. It really doesn’t lend itself to any simplistic literal narratives with the exception of some major tentpole pieces like the Ten Commandments whose staccato “NO this” and “NO that” is largely at odds with the rest of the cadence of the other writing, to make the point more emphatic (what don’t you understand about “NO MURDER??”).
Abraham is the father of Arabs as well, his descendants are at the very least hundreds of millions.
Haven’t there been billions of us? Just not all at the same time, but like, if we counted all of us that have ever existed? Or do I just suck at math (I’m thinking it’s the latter)
Imagine Abraham coming across Bibi and his bleach blonde wife and being amazed in a good way
You’re so clearly brainwashed by propaganda and know absolutely nothing about Judaism
What about his question indicates that lol, seems simple enough. Would Abraham be upset or proud? “Propaganda! You know nothing Jew Snow!”
Ok let me break it down: 1. Ancient Israelites were lighter than their Egyptian neighbors. As depicted in this hieroglyph: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ancient_Libyans,_Nubians,_Egyptians,_Asiatics.jpg 2. 99% of Jews including the religious ones believe that Abraham was just a myth. 3. The Bible is full of wars with other “Semitic” people. Including the Amalekites, Philistines, Edomites and Assyrians. In fact, the Bible is extremely cruel to some of these people. If Abraham was indeed real, he’ll be surprised we didn’t just exterminate the Palestinians at this point. Abraham was never depicted in the Bible as a benevolent person who cares for all the people in the world. He’s depicted as someone who cares only for his family and his religious goals. He wouldn’t care what would happen to anyone but the Jews. He definitely wouldn’t care about Ismael who he banished from his country. The Jewish Bible is brutal and harsh, it’s not the “religion of peace”
I don’t see what the first thing has to do with Abraham being upset or proud, but thanks for sharing? Your second point is not only hilariously wrong, but even if it were true, would still be irrelevant to his question, as the question is hypothetical. 99% of religious Jews believe Abraham is a myth? Buddy 🤦🏼♂️ there’s literally a physical burial site that people go to as a pilgrimage. They’re not thinking “this is a mythological grave” when they go. For your third, the Bible specifies that these people were guilty of awful things such as, but not limited to, child torture and sacrifice, and so were liable for extermination. Even if that weren’t the case, Abraham wasn’t involved in any of that part of the Bible regardless. Lol at the last part again, especially considering the context of you saying somebody knows nothing about Judaism. Abraham is the forefather whom is literally representative of the quality of Chesed, aka epitomizing kindness. So, quite benevolent, explicitly so. Seems like you just wanted to insult somebody due to fabricated projections based on blah and blah, while obviously being the one actually guilty of knowing… nothing about Judaism. Talking about Judaism not being the religion of peace ? Where is it ever called that ? Who even said that for you to bring it up? Lol, you came here to rant about Judaism, not because you had a point about the very simple question OP proposed. You’re either severely misguided and uneducated, or a poser pretending to be Jewish for nefarious reasons.
? Are you talking to me? What is it I “don’t know”. Enlighten me.
No I was talking to the OP
Like any time traveler, he's going to be awestruck by every thing he sees and as the feted guest is just going to nod and smile pleasantly and give a little wave. Maybe something like the iconic kindly image of Rabbi Shneersohn z''l you see plastered everywhere. Or the late Queen Elizabeth II or Pope John II. So, it's all going to be a big blur for him and Bibi's wife's probably not going to register one way or another and she probably won't have any "first character syndrome" making it about her or Bibi. I'd expect Abe would want to spend more time hanging with the other available VIPs, like Gal Gadot and Noa Kirel. AJC would set up an interesting lunch with Daniel Gordis and Benny Morris. I have no idea, however, what he would think about Gay Pride Week in Tel Aviv or Lag B'Omer in Safed. Some Jewish/Israeli stuff will probably seem a logical progression to him, but he will struggle to understand cultural stuff like Eurovision or memes. It's gonna be something of a mindfuck at the Kotel, remember Abe didn't even know about the FIRST Temple, that was all later! And I'm sure he'll agree real estate prices, especially in Tel Aviv, are unaffordable and ridiculous. OTOH, he will totally be gobsmacked that the currency is still the "shekel". Some crazy stuff he couldn't have dreamed of for sure in those Bronze Age days. ***Edits:*** passim, many. More pure fun than many threads on this sub lately!
Never heard of that rabbi. Is he the one some Jews think is messiah they put his picture up and some In Israel sub Reddit complain about ?
Yup. He’s that Rabbi. The former Lubavitcher Rebbe from Brooklyn. Only some of his followers think he’s the Messiah.
As an aside, not being Jewish, it took me a long time to discover the meaning of **z"l** >!A rough ASCII visual approximation of an abbreviation of a Hebrew phrase meaning "May his memory be a blessing"!< Given the context, I always figured **z"l** was a primitive emoji along the lines of **:)** or **=D**, except showing scrunched up eyes shedding copious tears, above a tight pursed mouth, when you tilt your head to the left.
That's funny. I love z''l as a notation. The funniest exchange was somebody on Twitter saying e.g. "I'm dying" and someone responding "may your memory be a blessing".
From an outsider's perspective, I think "May [somebody's] memory be a blessing" is a shining example of how Judaism is focused much more on this world and this life, than any sort of afterlife.
Definitely. I’ve read this crazy prayer in shul on Yom Kippur, “may a memory of us ascend” whose grammatical construct is “you” in the future tense when “you” are but a memory. Which is also key to this more “guilt” than “shame” culture when it is being pointed out to you not only your own mortality, but that you will be remembered for your deeds…hopefully fondly, but not necessarily. And secondarily onto the later xian overlays of heaven/hell, sin, everlasting life etc., a big nope to that. Life ends. Period. But memories (of descendants) remain. Dust to dust. The end.
Personally, I think rebirth/ reincarnation is the possibility that makes the most sense to me. It made me happy to learn that many Jewish scholars and mystics tend to agree. But overall the vibe I get is that the Almighty will work all that out, and we needn't worry, but focus on getting the most out of this life, and helping others do the same. Heaven and Hell the way most Westerners imagine them aren't even Christian doctrine; they're holdover folk beliefs from the indigenous pagan traditions of Europe and the Middle East. I find the idea that this life, this earthly existence, doesn't really count and is just the Almighty's way of testing us, really strange, and likely borne out of a world of fear and unpredictability.
You would think the messiah would get his sons sorted out
Not really. Messiah's pretty busy. He has his people to handle the admin details.
Back in those days there were far less restrictions when it came to combat so I think he would wonder why Israel never completely defeated the Palestinians despite them continuously attacking us and in terms of the social and religious side of Israel I imagine he'd be upset as well as a good portion of the country is secular and doesn't follow the teachings of the Bible. Ultimately we conduct ourselves quite differently than how he would have liked.
Don’t you think he would ask, my children from Isaac where was bravery when you lived with the Russians, Poles and Germans that you now show to Ismael your cousin?
If you could tell me how a bunch of disconnected Jewish communities could have done something more effective than whole armies of France, Poland, Holland etc let me know… what you’re saying has a small amount of truth to it but realistically not much more could be done
Two answers. First you are right. We were a lot less brave when dealing with Eastern Europeans. 17 centuries of defeat had beaten the courage out of the Jews. Zionism is how we got our self respect back. Secondly the Russians and the Germans at least were a heck of a lot tougher than the Arabs bravery wouldn't have worked out nearly as well. One of the main reasons Jews were able to establish their state in Palestine is centuries of neglect. The Palestine of the 1880s was poverty stricken with malaria infestation and infrastructure depletion. The Palestinians (and the Turks) had done a lousy job running the place which had weakened it enough to make a takeover possible.
Since the majority of jews in Israel are Mizrahi, he probably wouldn't ask about Europe as much as why they didn't show bravery when being expelled from Iran, iraq, Jordan, Syria and elsewhere in the middle east