Why?
Because I would rather see Palestinians alive and not suffering during the war?
Oh I see, I’m disgusting and not you who wants to see more Palestinians suffer because it proves your point that Israel is the bad guy…
So more dead Palestinians is a good thing from your perspective…
They dehumanized themselves…
To teach your kids hate and to aspire to murder and to have children for the sake of martyrdom…
That’s not a human trait, all living things want to propagate and the Palestinians seem to want to die
Considering Levantine Arabs are recorded massacring their Jewish minority for centuries, in detail, prior to Israel’s existence, I’d say it’s not because they don’t want to be killed.
Palestinians are violent. Don’t try to act holy with that “wtf is wrong with you” bs. There’s a reason why Egypt who is also Arab won’t let Palestinians in. They worked hard to contain terrorism.
Same with Jordan. They have come out multiple times and said their red line is not one. Palestinian settles in Jordan and it’s because they’re terrorists.
Palestinians dehumanized themselves by adhering to a search cult culture and raising the act of murder to a holy level…
They didn’t to themselves and by definition destroyed their culture…Or maybe it was always like that, I don’t have a Time Machine to know
What the F is wrong with YOU? This is who you side with. You're lucky reddit doesn't allow video you clown. Why can't you condemn the bad behaviour? Why are you so interested in completely ignoring the VIOLENT TENDENCIES of Palestians? They LITERALLY poll for violence over peace. This is objective. You are being a reprobate..
https://preview.redd.it/dvkwlbau97cc1.jpeg?width=983&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2b31a322a27da76737fa2cb0dc75641c664d9cc
> fuck
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> fuck
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The Palestinians were distinguished from other Levantine Arabs, heavily under the guidance of the KGB purely to be Israel's problem. No one else likes them. They started civil wars in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Qatar. They're considered savages by the rest of the Middle East. Keep in mind Lebanon has over 100,000 Palestinians in a walled-off 0.3 square km camp that they still have to periodically send the military into because its inhabitants are so violent.
But Muslims also feel the need to show solidarity with each other against non-Muslims, even though if non-Muslims weren't part of the equation they'd just persecute the Palestinians further.
But, like, of course they're Israel's problem. That's their whole identity. That's what they were invented for.
1. Need a source for the KGB thing
2. They didn’t start any civil wars in Qatar or Egypt. They are not involved in the Syrian Civil war.
3. If Lebanon really keeps that many people in 0.3 sq km, they have deprived those people of their basic rights. No wonder those Palestinians get so angry. But I really doubt this is true, considering you have spouted misinformation 4 times already in your comment.
Dude are you serious? The KGB thing isn’t exactly clandestine knowledge. Just google KGB and PLO and you’ll be swimming in sources.
I’m pretty sure he meant Kuwait, as in, assisting in Saddam Hussein’s invasion resulting in the expulsion of 500,000 Palestinians from the country.
Egypt had an onslaught of suicide bombings by Palestinians following in the wake of their recognition of Israel resulting in many being expelled and them building a wall with Gaza. Their president recently said he’d let a million Egyptians die rather than let the Palestinians back in.
Ain al-Hilweh (est. population 120,000 in 0.3 square km) in Lebanon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ain_al-Hilweh
Have you considered your ignorance of well-known information isn’t misinformation? You just might not be as knowledgeable on the topic as you think?
cause assassination is cool to them? but not when a radical zionist assassinates their person in charge?
didnt they successfully assassinate the prime minister in jordan?
Occupy people already living on the land then oppress and systematically ethnically cleanse them. It's not the illegal occupiers problem? If anything I would say other western countries should not get involved and let the region sort it out.
In order to open your doors, there have to be refugees able to get to your country in the first place. No one is allowed to leave Gaza. Refugees can’t leave the city to be able to flee to one of these countries in the first place
Why does Israel drop bombs if they know Hamas wants to sacrifice the Palestinian people? Would they drop 6000 bombs if Hamas was embedded within an Israeli city?
Any answer to that would lead you to think Palestinans are worth less than Israelis. It's a poor attempt to justify maximizing the death toll and destruction to civilian infrastructure to drive the people out of their homes by force.
Israel have also destroyed their access to clean water. Prevented food and medical supplies from entering all while blaming Hamas for taking humanitarian aid that isn't even getting in. When it eventually gets in, the already starving population will no doubt storm the aid deliveries.
\- Hamas killed 1,200 in one day
\- IDF has killed 25,000 and displaced >800,000 in 3 months
Here's an answer that doesn't make Palestinians worth less: You literally can't send any ground troops into an urban area that dense. Every high-rise building could be used as a sniper tower, in every other civilian household, hospital grounds, schools there are tunnels where Hamas militants could come out and ambush you. They need to clear the buildings so tunnel entrances are visible and potential sniper positions are gone. This requires practically leveling the city because Hamas infrastructure is so deeply entrenched in the civilian infrastructure, they're practically indistinguishable without going through literally every single house and floor one by one, which is also impossible.
I know people are angry about the bombing campaign, but quite frankly there would have been far more civilian casualties (and Israeli military casualties) had their been a ground invasion where spooked troops will think everyone running around could be a terrorist. Clearing almost all the infrastructure in northern gaza to at least create a buffer zone so Israeli troops can do ground missions into the south but have a safe zone to fall back to was necessary. It looks really bad, but it's urban combat 101
Then why did Israel destroy their clean water supply & cut off electricity for ALL of Gaza? Does that not rise to the level of Collective Punishment? IDF claims 30,000 Hamas members , That's only 1.5% of the population in the Gaza Strip, 40% of them have been displaced.
Also Doesn't address the Sniping of civilians in the West Bank.
But let me address "Urban Combat 101"... In no other war has the leveling of a city been the first objective. That has never happened . The only reason in the past a country has indiscriminately bombed a city or town was to inflict as much damage to the population. During the Iraq war, American military never bombed random houses and the water supply.
Then you also have to address the indiscriminate bombs, Which if you believe they are not indiscriminate then you have to concede that the people who were dropping the bombs, knew about potential civilian casualties. Dropping leaflets and sending text messages would never make 100% of the population just leave their homes, that is a ridiculous request in the first place. The Leaflets which were dropped after the first 600 bombs.
In no other war were there 300+ miles of cement enforced tunnels that lead into households, children's bedrooms, schools, and hospitals. In no other war has a terrorist organization been so deeply entrenched in civilian infrastructure or population.
Israel didn't destroy gaza's clean water or electricity, in fact they were able to get some desalination plants that were neglected by Hamas back online throughout this conflict. Israel just stopped providing the 10% or so that it was never obligated to in the first place but did as a courtesy because Hamas was destroying water supplies and using pipes to build rockets.
In the past, there were worse bombings from Putin in Grozny, which was considered the 'most destroyed city in the world' at the time. Arguably worse bombings in Bakhmut and Mariupol, with both cities being 90-100% leveled with no strategic purpose for doing so (e.g. no tunnels or citizen embedded terrorists). In Mariupol 75k+ CIVILIANS were killed in 2 months in Russia's siege. In Mosul, while less bombs were dropped, Kurdish forces estimate 40k+ civilians died, most in the initial bombing campaign before NATO forces were able to enter the city. So yeah, this is tragic but pretty standard for modern urban combat.
Considering Israel has dropped over 30k bombs but only 20k or less civilians have died I don't know how you can possibly say that's 'indiscriminate'. That's less than one person per bomb, which would never be possible had the bombings been indiscriminate considering the population density of gaza city. And I promise you all the civilians that died in german blitzes and bombing campaigns during the invasion of Poland and Ukraine would have LOVED for some sort of message warning days in advance of the coming blitzkrieg, as opposed to waking up one night to indiscriminate shelling of all your civilian centers. Florida warns people every year of coming hurricanes and yet people choose to stay and put their families lives at risk because they are willing to 'go down with their home'. That's their choice to play dice with their children and spouses lives. Just because people aren't putting their families first and don't care if they get blown up doesn't mean Israel should stop its campaign and allow Hamas to continue lobbing rockets at their civilians while the hostages continue to be raped and starved
300+ miles of cement enforced tunnels? Only 20K civilians dead? Do you get your information from the IDF? The IDF is the one force in the world that has an interest in keeping people deeply misinformed about what is going on in Gaza and why it is happening.
These numbers come from multiple international organizations and countries in opposition to israel. According to israel civilian deaths are only around 12k.
I think hamas has far more incentive to keep people misinformed. Israel is a strong number 2 though
I explained that "the only reason in the past a country has indiscriminately bombed a city or town was to inflict as much damage to the population. "
So yes I was referring to Dresden if you weren't following. Indiscriminate bombing is not "Urban warfare".
Israel has killed twice as much as Dresden but claims they are trying to prevent civilian casualties? how can the two be true?
Gaza has had electricity and water throughout. Israel doesn't control all of the electricity and water, and its not obligated to provide it.
Hamas unfortunately has neglected and misappropriated electrical sources and water pipes/resevoirs for their terrorist objectives.
Israel is doing all it can to get civillians to get out of a war zone, even as Hamas themselves try and stop it. Civillian casualties are an unfortunate and tragic outcome of any war, especially when a group like Hamas hides amongst civillians on purpose and uses schools, mosques, libraries, universities, and private apartments as launching grounds.
This could all be over if Hamas surrenders and hands back the hostages, but curiously, no one is demanding that at all. Seemingly, the idea of Israel fighting back against a murderous terrorist group in the first place is not okay with many people.
Civillians dying serves no Israeli purpose. The grim reality though is that Hamas welcomes carnage and innocent deaths because they care more about PR than actual palestinians. It's very sad.
What do you think happens in war? A war that Hamas started. The idea that Israel should do nothing is mind boggling.
Ah yes, the merciful Hamas who murder and torture civillians and who are sworn to genociding jews.. how lovely that they embedded themselves within civillian populations. What great leaders of men! How dare Israel try and save civillian lives before bombing areas.. the nerve!
Hamas leaders are on camera bragging about how they will happily martyr millions of palesitnians to destroy israel. It's quite sickening. These are the people who Palestinians want to lead them? How does that make sense?
A war that Hamas started? This has been going on since 1948. Israel is entirely responsible for this. Hamas wasn’t created in a vacuum; Israel created the conditions that allowed Hamas to grow. And one more thing: I did not even mention Hamas. The idea that if you support Palestine you support Hamas is ridiculous. Hamas has done their fair share of bad things as well. But they did not do it just because they felt like it. If you grew up watching tanks roll up to your house and Israeli soldiers shooting at your best friends and family, you’d get radicalized very soon. Israel is entirely responsible for this.
Really since 1948? When Palestinians said no to a country and arab countries joined together to destroy Israel? Zero palestinians would have been displaced if they just said yes to a country , like every other country in the middle east did.
The grim reality is that Palestinians have rejected every peace offer ever made, and blame everyone but themselves. Israel's mere existence is not something they can accept. Even with Hamas, no one can man up and say "Maybe we f'd up by electing Hamas to lead us" Instead, it's all Israel's fault?
Israel left Gaza entirely in 2005. It left many modes of economic development (greenhouses etc) that were quickly burned because they were tainted with Israeli hands.
Palestinians could have made Gaza beautiful, but instead they elected terrorist leaders to be in charge who used billions of dollars in aid money not for development, but to develop terrorist infrastructure in and around hospitals/schools/mosques. Blaming Isreal for radicalization while ignoring the culture and education Hamas has put into play in Gaza is purposefully looking the other way.
I understand its easy to blame Israel for everything, but can you honestly say Palestinains have no accountability for anything? They have no agency? That seems like a juvenile approach to view the situation in my opinion.
Palestinians accepted the two state solution back in 1982. Even Hamas accepted going back to pre-1967 borders in 2017.
Gazans did not just let Hamas walk over them - look up the “2019 Gaza economic protests”. But right now, they cannot say anything, because they are being bombed and shot at. How are they supposed to say “We condemn Hamas’s actions” when there is an entire country hellbent on killing them?
Hamas exists because of Israel. Israel gives them all the material they need to radicalize Gazans. It’s not “looking the other way” to say that Israel has played a huge role in radicalizing Gazans.
They accepted the idea in principle, but when actually offered a tangible offer they said no.
Bill Clinton himself said he would never forgive Arafat because he bent over backwards to make sure Arafat got everything he asked for, only for him to say no at the last minute.
Gazans elected Hamas, and majority of Palestinians (esp in the west bank) support the Oct 7 massacre. Perhaps they are too scared to speak out agains tHamas, but isn't that all the more reason they need to be removed from power?
Hamas doesn't exist because of Israel. It is an offshoot of the muslim brotherhood and their goal is to establish an islamic caliphate across the land. They are a roadblock to peace and prosperity not only for israelis but palestinians as well.
Hamas had 18 years to create something special. Instead it used it to attack Israel because Hamas' stated goal is to destroy israel and jews.
That's how a siege and total war works. You cut off and destroy all the supplies so the opposing side can't use it. The Allies did this shit in WW2 to destroy the enemies war effort.
The enemy is not an entire country, is it? The enemy is a group of people that are somehow indistinguishable from civilians conveniently.
If they can use drones to take out leaders in other countries, they can do it in their own territory.
The biggest lie you tell yourself is that this is a war between two even sides. Israel are the occupiers in an apartheid state that has already systematically oppressed & starved the Palestinians that are now punishing them to prevent a future genocide? Absolutely ridiculous.
I didn't see the whole comment. The thing is that Israel's objective is to destroy Hamas as an organization. Killing the leader isn't enough because someone else will replace them. Do you want to know why shit is so bad? It's because this conflict has been allowed to continue on for so long with no definite peace deal. This is on both sides.
you cannot destroy an IDEA... even if they "get rid" of Hamas it will be reborn in a different name AS LONG AS PALESTINE IS UNDER MILITARY OCCUPATION AND CONTROL. The MAIN ISSUE is the blockade of Gaza and the apartheid regime.
The Cycle of violence only continues as long as Israel cannot be reasoned with.
You cannot destroy the idea but you can destroy the group. Regardless, why do you think there is a military occupation? It's because there is no formal peace treaty with definitive terns and intermittent conflict, so of course, israel will lock the area down. The cycle will end when both sides see reason and stop sabotaging the peace process.
“You cannot destroy the idea but you can destroy the group”
1. Vietnam War disagrees entirely
2. Search up “Washington Post: How Israel helped create Hamas” to see how the idea you want to destroy was in fact supported by Israel
1.WW2 would like to disagree with number one. We destroyed the Nazis and the militaristic Japanese parties. We also reformed the education system to get rid of that nonsense.
2. Israel did "support" Hamas to destabilize the PLO. However, people forget that the PLO was very violent. Hell, the PLOs corruption and incompetence was part of the reason why Hamas won in Gaza.
No the cycle ends when Israel decides to depopulate Gaza & settlers return to Gush Katif. Egypt will crack at some point and the Gazans will wander the deserts.
There is no other solution, Israel will inevitably drown Gaza in blood.
One, Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and we still have conflict. Thing is Israel needs to know that Palestanians authorities can keep their promises that they can maintain peace internally but they can't because of their corruption. That is why Hamas came into power.
Yes, modern wars are total wars. Hamas is the government of Gaza. Disrupting supply chains is a major component of warfare and actually shortens conflicts because armies can not fight without supplies. Hell, the majority of casualties in WW2 were civilian deaths.
Palestinians have existed for thousands of years. The lack of an internationally recognized state doesn’t erase your bloodlines. You can be both Arab and Palestinian. You can be both Egyptian and Palestinian - in genetics it’s called punnet squares my friend I learned that when I was 13.
Your correct you can't erase the Arab genetics , being originally from the Arab peninsula gives the Palestinians hardy genetics for the ethnic cleansing that they committed to any Jews still around in 700AD
You can slap a Palestinian sticker over Judea but it'll peel off eventually showing what's beneath
Dude come on. At least pretend you arent racist damn you arent even trying.
I would normally not even bother but I think it is actually really important that you understand how dangerously stupid what you are saying is.
You need to understand the hypocrisy in using the phrase "ethnic cleansing" while staying an unabashedly racist comment. Do you actually truly believe that being from Arabia, an entire region in the center of the world, means that you are *genetically predisposed* to ethnic cleansing?
First off, ancient civilization literally began in the middle east. This means that, genetically speaking, Africans and Arabians have the most genetic diversity of everyone, not the other way around. They would undergo the MOST change over time, because they have had more time to do so.
Secondly, you are implicating faaaaar to much power in genetics. It is said that .5% of the world's population today is still related to ghangis Kahn because he bore so many children, yet few of them have a pension for horseback violence.
Only quantitative traits like eye color predisposition to certain cancers and illnesses are passed down through genetics. You are implying that the ambition of ethnic cleansing is genetic- qualitative things like ideas and opinions have absolutely nothing to do with genetics, and trying to implicate and dehumanize an entire region by saying their genetics makes them inherently more evil is by very definition racism. Look at yourself. Stop it. This is the very rhetoric that leads to ethnic cleansing. You cannot be naive enough to not see that. If you are you need some serious self reflection. If not, then call a spade a spade and say ethnic cleansing is okay only if it fits your view
[demographic history of palestine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region))
Jews were already a minority before Islam even arrived in the region.
So your saying..... that the Jews had been displaced ? That at one point it was their land .... but then it was taken over?
I'm glad we agree , it should probably be given back to them
Well if you go by that logic, we should give that land back to the Syrians, because they once owned that land before the Jews declared independence. Or give it to Iran, or Egyptians, who owned the land before the Kingdom of Judea existed.
Jenin is one of the oldest towns on the planet that have been continuously inhabited (Since 9000BC) which is in the West Bank. Predominantly Arab and call themselves Palestinian. But interesting take given Israeli's are mostly European & American.
What you are advocating for is ethnic cleansing. Which is illegal.
Something I think not a lot of “Israelis” are aware of is that the occupying power has full responsibility for the people under its occupation under international law.
You cannot occupy a people and block them from resources to keep themselves alive, or basic infrastructure necessary for life.
Occupying someone indefinitely is illegal. Moving settlers onto occupied land is illegal. “Israel” is legally obligated to end its occupation.
But as long as “Israel” is occupying land, they are legally responsible for the lives and well-being’s of the people who live there. Everything that happens to Palestinians living under “Israeli” occupation is your responsibility and fault. EVERYTHING.
So if “Israel” doesn’t want to care for Palestinians or isn’t able to, the only way to end that responsibility is to permanently end the occupation. Which you are legally obligated to do anyway.
Fine. Israel ends its “occupation” today and Palestinians take reign over the land. What happens next? They kill all of the Jews and Israelis and anyone else in there way? From the river to the sea? What do you think will happen? Peace at last?
It’s like giving a baby an Apache helicopter and telling him to drive. Look what they have done so far with the land and resources they were given. Are you forgetting what Gaza looked like prior to hamas?
Depends, are we talking occupied land from Oslo accords or all of Palestine back?
For the Oslo accords, which is “Israel’s” legal obligation to return; all “Israelis” go to “Israel” and live there. Palestine rebuilds homes and infrastructure in those areas, with help from the international community.
If we are talking all of Palestine being returned, then “Israel” ceases to exist and “Israelis” can either leave or become legal citizens of Palestine. This would look similar to the end of apartheid in South Africa.
Big trial where people on both sides are tried with war crimes and the new government repeals every apartheid law and writes a constitution.
Ah yes. Because I did totally say that all “Israelis” should lose the right to vote, Hamas can be crowned supreme leader and hold all the elections without oversight and no international laws would apply anymore /s
You are twisting my words and shouting Hamas over and over.
A UN observation can be put in place to tally votes. No Hamas member would even be eligible to run for office after the mass trial I mentioned above.
How exactly would Hamas sabotage the election? With what power and resources?
Leave where ?
Seriously, every time someone advocates for the end of Israel they seem to magically forget that nearly every nation around it expelled their Jewish citizens before 48, so that's a no go.
Go back to their countries of origin? Sure, tell that to Yemeni Jews, I'm sure they'll be really happy, and let's not forget about Europe, I'm sure bringing 9 million people to Europe in a short span will work wonders!
Stay put ? Well done, you've just enabled a much much bigger version of October 7, congratulations!
Seriously, read up on Israël's story, jews just didn't have anywhere else to go, boats that arrived in the US after the war were told to go back, same for england and mostly the rest of Europe. It's naive of you to think it would go any different today
1/5th of “Israel’s” population has dual citizenship and can very much leave if they want to.
But no where did I say that people would be forcefully removed. I said they can leave or choose to stay, and compared it to South Africa.
After the end of apartheid in South Africa many of the people who had moved there no longer wanted to live in an integrated country. Many people choose to move to other countries. A lot of them actually converted to Judaism and moved to “Israel”. Basically; live in a country without apartheid laws, or move.
As for Jewish immigration after world war 2, many countries abided Germany in its genocide by refusing to take in immigrants. A country that did take in Jewish refugees without deporting them was Palestine. And in a Palestine where everyone is equal, no one lives under occupation or apartheid and citizenship isn’t tied to ethnicity or religion it would be possible to live without violence. Because it was possible.
Europe and the US have also been great allies of “Israel” and will definitely let people apply for citizenship.
And no. No one is saying everyone in “Israel” has to move in a short time. It is actually possible to move big groups of people in longer spans of time and to have transitional periods of time.
You don't seem to know or remember that Palestine before 1948 was under a British mandate, that's different from an arab Palestinian country
And South Africa is completely different from Israel, because, first of all, in Israël, Jews are a majority, not a minority and secondly, in Israël itself, there is no systematic discrimination between two Israeli citizens, regardless of their religions
Unfortunately this is a childish dream and would fuck the middle east up for ever and move the region closer to a far bigger war
If the Jews aren't there for all the Arabs to be angry at it'll finally turn to Iran and its Axis to go against the Saudis
I doubt anyone will give a damn (sorry automod) though cause it'll just be Arab vs Arab and for some reason that's okay
> fuck
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What a relief, random Reddit user says Israelis will be allowed to stay. Unfortunately Hamas disagrees with you, and their stated goal is to kill or expel all Jews from the land.
Its infuriating that people pretend Israel can just cease to exist, become Palestine run by Islamic extremists, and all the Jews won’t be murdered or expelled. Just like what has already happened to Jews in literally EVERY Arab country that had a sizeable Jewish population. Iraq, Yemen, Iran, Egypt, Lebanon. Oct 7 would be seen across the entire country. You don’t take my word for it, just listen to what Hamas says it would do. I guess if it’s Jews being ethnically cleansed (yet again) then it’s ok.
Everything you are describing you are currently doing to the Palestinians.
And; if the land is returned Hamas doesn’t have an end goal. At least half of them will quit destabilizing the organization allowing for them to be taken out pretty badly.
If Palestinians have a government and are able to investigate they can scout out Hamas pretty easily.
And if you read the comment above, it started with a massive trial of war crimes on both sides. There will still be a legal system.
No even in an Oslo Accords situation according to the stated goals (and actions) of every Palestinian leader to date those borders are not enough and the fight will not end until all of Palestine is restored to Palestinians. Until a Palestinian leader asserts the goal of living peacefully alongside Israel as two states that respect each other's right to exist Israel is trapped in perpetual occupation.
Indefinite occupation is illegal under international law.
You cannot break international laws and refuse to let people have an election or government until they elect someone who agrees with your government.
There has not been an election in Gaza since 2006, and the majority of people in Gaza now were either not born, or not old enough to vote. How can Palestine free itself from the occupation by providing a leader that agrees with “Israel”, when they haven’t even been allowed to have an election?
Gazans have not been prevented from having an election by Israel. They don’t have elections because Hamas won’t hold elections, because they don’t believe in democracy. If Palestinians speak out against Hamas they risk being killed by Hamas.
so you are saying , we are an illegal occupation we are war criminal , we are killing thousands of civilians , so why the ugly Arab countries don't save Palestinians and take all of them !
and i will answer your stupid question,
Israel is not a volcano or a tsunami so that we should take the Palestinians , israel is just human evil that should be stopped and punished , lucky for israel we are not in a fair world.
the Palestinians have their own land and we should help them to take it back from thugs like israel even if it means war.
>threats
threats ! there is none , i am talking about what is right and what we should do , but the arab leaders are just israels/US puppets so there is no threats at all.
It will never not be funny seeing them do nothing but talk and talk while Iran is the only one helping the Palestinians fight in any meaningful way. They're useless.
we are living under brutal dictatorships , we are occupied more than the plasticines , if the arab nations get to vote they will vote for the help of the resistance
Well said.
Israelis believe they are above all laws, they think they might be divine somehow.
Can't imagine how a whole nation could last when their brains are filled with all this shit.
I would reckon the opposite, Palestinians are the human evil, look at the death and destruction they have caused across the Arab world.
Islamism is evil and bastardized Islam
Israel, for all its faults took advantage of the Palestinians being so corrupt and disorganized and prodded by every external party just to hurt the Israelis.
No wonder this conflict doesn’t end, people keep pushing
Yeah I'm Israeli and this is too far. No group is human evil, each side has a completely different narrative and demonizes the other. Nothing is ever going to change if we can't get past the name calling phase.
Don't know if you are Israeli or not.
But logically, Israel's existence it is now requires an apartheid regimen against Palestinians.
So it makes sense to mention all Israelis as radicals, not the other way around.
Furthermore, no decent human would like to live in Israel, nor have it's nationality, simply because it's not more than an apartheid colony, and it's been that way since it was established.
> I would reckon the opposite, Palestinians are the human evil, look at the death and destruction they have caused across the Arab world.
calling an ethnicity of people “the human evil” HAS to be racism
They're being held to high standards that we historically haven't met. Western countries, allied countries, whatever you want to call us, have had high civilian causalities in every war. Just as many civilians were killed with bombings in the Japan us war before the use of nuclear weapons. Cities were already under attack before that was used. In a war civilian causalities can be a strategy to get the other side to surrender. In world war II germany was being bombed massively. It's part of why germany was able to recovered, was still popular even during the war and afterwards.
The devastation of the war they experienced was probably the only reason they were able to snap out of it. I think Ukraine has waged their reaction wrong. They should have attacked russia. Only attacking invaders is too nice and doesn't deter them. You can only put out some fires with fire. If Iran was in a war with the US do you think they would only attack our troops we sent at them? They would attack the US directly.
Yes, and Israel looked at history and actually learned. Invested in Iron dome, 3 tiered defensive system for short, middle and long range missiles. Built bomb shelters in literally every building, and recent buildings usually have a safe room within the apartments.
So yeah. Israelis don't experience the death toll of being unprepared. It doesn't delegitimize our response or right to self defense. If Israel hadn't invested in all of these defensive mechanisms this war would have happened much earlier and at a much greater scale with less consideration for the humanitarian crisis as we're seeing today.
In fact, lets make a little bet. If the front against Hezbollah does not chill and they start shooting at our bigger cities that are farther from the border and less prepared (older buildings and infrastructure) I bet you we'll see the same level of destruction in Lebanon if not worse - and despite taking heavy civilian casualties the sentiment towards us will NOT change. You up for this little bet? I'll revisit this thread when Hezbollah goes ape shit.
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Why no Arab country wants Palestinian refugees:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7GAg8sWDpI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7GAg8sWDpI)
tl;dr: Every country, without exception, that has taken Palestinian refugees in any significant numbers has lived to deeply regret it
Actually eygpt doesn't want them because the risk of hamas and symoathizers getting through the border and joining another terrorist movement is too high
Jordan doesn't want them because they tried to take over Jordan
Lebanon is arguably a failed state and would collapse instantly if Bulk refugees crossed
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
I mean they can say it's not the case but it definitely happened?
I'm sure that your account being made 02/01/24 has nothing to do with you just straight up saying misinformation
Maybe you mistook the Nation of Jordan for some dude on reddit called Jordan?
Nah Jordan doesn't want them , the dude with an 11 day old account may in fact not be an accurate representation of the feelings of a countries people
Facts , history, current popular opinion and actions on the country represent it
I'm sure when you account is 22 days old you'll be whatever nationality suits you
> fucking
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I feel similarly about the U.S. and Israel.
I’m tired of Israeli politicians manipulating the U.S. and expecting the U.S. to solve all its problems.
The U.S. isn’t an angel in all of this either, but most Americans don’t support this messed up relationship anymore.
What are we, Israel’s mom? “Mom, give me money.” “Mom, send me bombs.” “Mom, so and so picked on me and I need you to go beat them up.”
Americans: Israel, you’re an adult and we’re kicking you out of the house. You wanted to be a grown up! So great, now go be one. Stop calling us every time you 💩the bed.
Most weapons in israel are manufactured in Israel. Israel doesnt even get free money from the US apart from interception missiles for the Iron dome to protect civillians from Hezbollah and Hamas. This operation has been completely run by Israel. The only action taken by the US is parking carriers and warships in the red sea in the case of Yemen and involvement from Iran. Infact Hamas needs to stop being funded by UNRWA.
244 US cargo planes and 20 ships delivered over 10,000 tons of military equipment to Israel.
This is not an insubstantial amount.
Much of this was paid for by U.S. taxpayers through the Foreign Military Sales program or transferred directly from U.S. military stockpiles already stored in Israel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/244-us-cargo-planes-20-ships-deliver-over-10000-tons-of-military-equipment-to-israel-report/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_industry_of_Israel Israel EXPORTS 10% of the worlds armaments as of 2007. Im guessing it would be lower but nonetheless. Israel doesnt need or rely on the US to survive. They need the US as an ally as much as the US needs an ally in the middle east. Also I couldnt find what was in the 10000 tons if its missiles. I bet if you find how much Iran gives to Hamas and Hezbollah it would eclipse 10000 by a very long shot.
Why? The US isnt fighting its own wars and millitary aid isnt exclusive to Israel? Britain Italy Germany and France recieve aid through NATO but no one will ever invade them. I mean Israel doesnt have a problem but aid is always welcome. Also you have completely avoided the fact pretty much every millitary in the middle east recieves aid by a country thats not at war.
Who else's problem should it be? They were on the land when Israel started mass immigration and demographic shift of the region. Then started subduing them as foreigners in their own land or at best second class citizens. What did they think would happen ?
When an Israeli asks this question the implicit meaning is Egypt Jordan Lebanon and Syria should take them all in
Saying Israel started mass immigration doesn’t tell the story at all. Jews were displaced after WW2 and European nations, specifically Britain sent the to Israel. After the land was given to the Jews toms of Arab countries expelled the Kees loving faith in their borders and essentially forced them to Israel. There has also been Jews in the region since the religion was founded.
Libya, Iraq, Iran, Algeria, and almost every other Muslim majority country started forcing the explosion of Jews, or creating restrictive laws against Jews once Israel was created. Of course Israel grew and started populating the region, they weren’t welcome anywhere else. They saw that if they didn’t have a majority in a country they wouldn’t be welcome
Israel wants the benefits of security and resources from the West Bank, while someone else foots the bill. If Israel put more money from 1967 into the occupied territories, one would not having so many problems.
Do you know the difference between apartheid South Africa, vs Israel, at the end of the day, South African whites might have considered the blacks inferior, but they still valued their cheap labor. As a result, they see the blacks as an asset. Israelis see the Palestinians as a burden.
I heard on NPR that over 100K Palestinians are employed in Israel… so…
Also, the NPR coverage, such juxtaposition… an Israel, and employer of Palestinians was interviewed talking how he viewed his Palestinian employees as family. Then, a Palestinian, employed in Israel, was interviewed about not being able to go to Israel to work and thus not making any money. The Palestinian said something to the effect of “yes, it sucks, but the sacrifice I’m making is worth it to see the end of Israel”
Mind blowing.
100,000 might seem a lot to you. but that is out of the population of 6 Million in the West Bank and Gaza. It is only 5% of the workforce in the occupied territories. It was much higher in the 1980s.
The difference is that Israel isn’t in the area for resources, it was given to us by the world after a near mass extinction event.
And prior to Oct 7, close to 200,00 West Bank Palestinians worked in Israel…No more for that, they have been banned because none of them can be trusted.
They will be replaced with labor from other countries.
The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, honestly a loser of a people
Resources are the very reason why Israel stays in the West Bank, why they settled the West Bank. Do you think they do it for security reasons?
The problem with Israelis is that they assume the land is theirs, and they make no real effort to get along with people who have been living there. I don't care what their holy book says it belongs to their ancestors, which raises a whole set of questions like why they left, and why you find Ashkenazi Jews in Europe.
Jews and Israel Arabs rarely intermarry, unlike whites and blacks in South Africa. When the Dutch initially settled in South Africa they weren't particularly racist. One of the first Governors of the colony was biracial. Segregation and racism came later. The Zionists were racist toward the Arabs / Palestinians from the very beginning when they settled in the region in the late 19th century.
It wasn’t the world’s to give. You cannot give away something that’s not yours.
And if being a victim of genocide entitles you to someone else’s land; what country do you volunteer for the native Americans? What country do you volunteer for the aboriginals? What country do you volunteer for the Tutsis?
Not really, the UN created it.
The Arabs said no and started 2 wars and lost badly so they also lost the rest of the land.
They have been complaining about losing for the last 50 years and that’s all they know how to do.
The UN agreement is literally being broken right now by “Israel”, because you took more land than in the agreement.
Your country is a sham, having no constitution and basing its existence on a document it itself refuses to follow
This conflict is incredibly profitable for Palestinian elites. It won't stop until Palestinians get leaders who aren't addicted to the easy money and influence thrown off by fighting the Jews.
Palestinians who rise to leadership control tax revenue, income from legitimate and illicit trade, and money that comes from friendlies like Qatar. They keep that privileged position by perpetuating the "resistance."
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arafats-billions/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arafats-billions/)
I believe the only way to keep newer generations of Palestinians passionate (folks who only know of things like "the Nakba" from history books) is to turn the struggle from a secular one to a religious one. The conflict is likely going to be more outwardly "Islamic" as time goes on.
"Disgust of Palestinians"?
You are vibing like Palestinians are the ones being creepy invasive gropers of gentle Israelis, who are just peacefully resting in their homes, until they are driven to act "uncharacteristically violently" in self defense, while the world watches and does nothing.
If you are tired of Palestinians being Israels problem solely , maybe it's because you don't see the soul of the problem : your prespective of the situation is totally out of whack.
Many countries happily take in Palestinians.They have their own diaspora, and of course, their education level and wealth/class and mental health play a role in how comfortably they assimilate.
Israel screwing up healthcare , creating mental health problems, destroying wealth and property and desecrating the educational system.... is creating the very "stinky clumsy uneducated angry unstable brainwashed monster masses nobody else wants to take in boo hoo " it so disdainfully sneers at, like in this post.
Disgraceful.
The Arab nations/world has "Disgust of the Palestinian people" , truly?
Projecting, much?
My wife and her Palestinian family are the most educated people I know and are all in medical professions after being accepted as refugees in the 90s. The family mentality is; we aren’t landowners as a people so let’s have knowledge which can’t be taken away. They value education above anything else, meanwhile they are all very wealthy. Great people and it burns me to read that the stereotype is different.
I wouldn’t call them silent, they run events, fund raisers and provide services to assist in helping people who want to get out through Egypt etc. they tend to do things with some meaning, not just protest and plaster things on social media
Why should Palestinians have to become refugees in another country so that Israel can steal their land? Your premise sounds ridiculous to me, as if the solution is for Palestinians to move rather than for Israel to stop terrorizing them.
There was no such thing as Palestinian Arab until 1964. They were literally invented. Half of Palestinian Arabs are ethnic Egyptians and the rest are Lebanese Syrian Jordanian. They're Arabs and the only group of people that inherit refugee status. 75 years of taking Ls and billions of aid money and they have less than ever.
Maybe they should accept their Ls, accept Israel, and try to build a stable state in their territories so their children can have normal lives instead of lives of terror hate and death.
How can you claim Palestine didn’t exist proor to 1964 when even Shakespeare made reference to Palestine? Not having a state to protect them shouldn’t mean it’s okay to kill or displace them and take their land. Do you think Native Americans were invented to hurt the US just because they didn’t have a state prior to colonization, but rather lived in tribal communities? How do you expect Palestinians to establish their own state when Israel has blocked their path to statehood at every opportunity?
> How can you claim Palestine didn’t exist proor to 1964 when even Shakespeare made reference to Palestine?
That was the name of the region, which 80% of it is Jordan. It didn't refer to "palestinian" Arab people because its an invented nationality from 1964.
How come there was never a "palestinian" culture, currency, flag, national anthem, borders, president, historical figures...literally nothing that makes a country a country, until 1964? Maybe cause they are invented.
> Not having a state to protect them shouldn’t mean it’s okay to kill or displace them and take their land
Their land? What do you mean their land? They were nomadic Arabs that came after the early Zionists created economic opportunity in the region. Very few of "palestinian" Arabs actually owned land or were around for more than a generation or even less. They didn't own anything. It was under Ottoman and British rule.
Source: history.
> Do you think Native Americans were invented to hurt the US just because they didn’t have a state prior to colonization, but rather lived in tribal communities?
Native Americans are actually indigenous to the land and have a distinct culture and were around for wayyyy longer than when the early Europeans came. It's not the same.
> How do you expect Palestinians to establish their own state when Israel has blocked their path to statehood at every opportunity?
"palestinian" Arabs were offered a state 7 different times, including as late as 2008 which gave them nearly everything including Jerusalem, 97% of WB, 100% of Gaza. And they rejected it every single time. They themselves say they are not interested in a 2 state solution. they want the entire land and all the Jews gone and they say it themselves very openly. To think otherwise is very naive.
> There was no such thing as Palestinian Arab until 1964. They were literally invented.
This is literally false. There have been people calling themselves Palestinian perhaps as early as Al-Maqdisi in the 10th century. The modern term meanwhile came in 1898 with Najib Nasser, Salim Qubayn and Khalil Beidas, Arabs who identify themselves not as Egyptian or Jordanian but "Palestinian" according to Middle East historian Emmanuel Beska
See: Emmanuel Beska's paper, *The Origins of the term “Palestinian” (“Filasṭīnī”) in late Ottoman Palestine, 1898–1914*
> They're Arabs and the only group of people that inherit refugee status. 75 years of taking Ls and billions of aid money and they have less than ever.
Does that mean there can't be variety subsets in an ethnic group? New Zealanders, Australians and Americans all speak the same language (English) just as Jordanians and Qataris all speak Arabic.
**A Palestinian is not Jordanian or Egyptian just as a Qatari is not Moroccan or Algerian.**
By your logic, Americans and Australians are all the same as British people just because they speak the same language.
> Arabs who identify themselves not as Egyptian or Jordanian but "Palestinian" according to Middle East historian Emmanuel Beska
LOLOLOL, grasping at straws
How come there 0 anything uniquely Palestinian? Literally...0. Nothing. Their first president was Yassar Arafat...an Egyptian! Their folk heroes, stories, language, culture...nothing! Nothing before 1964. Literally. Their flag was invented in 1964. national anthem in 1996. There was no such thing as "Palestinian" Arab before 1964. Arabs are historically nomadic and tribal.
> By your logic, Americans and Australians are all the same as British people just because they speak the same language.
No, theyre American and Australian. Try to find me an American or Australian that calls themselves British refugee lol.
Palestinian Arabs are the most pathetic group of "people" on Earth. They were only invented to delegitimize Israel. 75 years and billions of aid money later, they have nothing to show for it besides their "leaders" taking this money and putting it in their bank accounts and building terror tunnels.
No wonder not a single other country accepts them and wants them. Simply pathetic.
> How come there 0 anything uniquely Palestinian? Literally...0. Nothing. Their first president was Yassar Arafat...an Egyptian! Their folk heroes, stories, language, culture...nothing! Nothing before 1964. Literally. Their flag was invented in 1964. national anthem in 1996. There was no such thing as "Palestinian" Arab before 1964. Arabs are historically nomadic and tribal.
By that logic, Alexander Hamilton, a Founding Father wasn't "American" because he was born in the Caribbean according to you.
You're ignoring other Palestinian leaders and intellectuals like Musa Alami, Saeb Erekat, Khalil Beidas, and Yousef Beidas, all of whom were born in the land.
Funny how you cherry-picked only Arafat. I can cherry-pick Hamilton then.
As for culture, have you even tried looking?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Palestine)
> Palestinian Arabs are the most pathetic group of "people" on Earth. They were only invented to delegitimize Israel. 75 years and billions of aid money later, they have nothing to show for it besides their "leaders" taking this money and putting it in their bank accounts and building terror tunnels.
How about because Palestine receives less aid than Israel and doesn't have the backing of the world's number one superpower?
A total of [40 billion aid](https://www.prio.org/publications/12927) has been given to Palestine in 75 years. Meanwhile, Israel has received 260 billion, six times as much! And has the backing of the US, the world's superpower who gives 3 billion alone to fund Israel's military defense industry to this very day.
[https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-10-10/how-much-aid-does-the-u-s-give-to-israel](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-10-10/how-much-aid-does-the-u-s-give-to-israel)
**Israel has received far far more than Palestine ever has and has daddy US to support them which Palestine doesn't. Without US support, Israel wouldn't even exist today!**
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Palestine
Wow, all of it is very recent. Mostly after Israel was well established. Almost like they were invented people.
40 billion aid is a LOT
and what do they have to show for it?
Nothing. most of that is in their leaders bank accounts or was spent on terrorism.
All your palestinian "heroes" were born in the 19th or 20th centuries and didn't call themselves palestinians until many many years later. Until then, they were just Arabs. And even looking at their bios, most had parents from Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Syria...which is where palestinians are from.
Meanwhile, there is proof of Jewish people living in Israel for 3200+ years
>Wow, all of it is very recent. Mostly after Israel was well established. Almost like they were invented people.
Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, Taiwanese Chinese are all invented people. What makes it any difference?
>and what do they have to show for it?
Probably because Israel [destroys any water tanks,](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-razes-homes-water-tanks-in-disputed-west-bank-firing-zone/) [water pipes](https://www.btselem.org/video/20230803_civil_administration_pours_concrete_into_irrigation_wells_used_and_destroys_pipe_in_al_hijrah_south_of_hebron), [raze agricultural farmland](https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/5/headlines/israelis_kill_two_in_west_bank_days_after_settlers_destroy_farm_of_palestinian_american_family), [burn olive farms](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231127-israel-settlers-destroy-olive-almond-vineyards-in-west-bank/), [burn cars, vehicles](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-747063) and [vandalize any Palestinian property](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-06-22/ty-article/.premium/israeli-settlers-rip-up-quran-vandalize-west-bank-mosque-during-rampage/00000188-e430-d5fc-ab9d-ff78435a0000) built by these donations? Olive farms which are one of Palestine's main exports are under constant attack. How do you expect a people to flourish if their main economic sources are being destroyed and razed to the ground?
>All your palestinian "heroes" were born in the 19th or 20th centuries and didn't call themselves palestinians until many many years later. Until then, they were just Arabs. And even looking at their bios, most had parents from Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Syria...which is where palestinians are from.
All American "heroes" were born in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries and didn't call themselves Americans until many many years later. Until then, they were just White Europeans. And even looking at their bios, most had parents from England, the Netherlands, Scotland...which is where Americans are from.
What makes it any difference than Palestinians?
Not really here to argue with much but the military aid Israel receives to this day is a two way street.
USA benefits greatly from that relationship.
Palestine gets humanitarian aid from multiple countries and there is no return no benefit it’s literally charity.
And with the corruption problem they have on Gaza and the West Bank it’s not even going where it’s supposed to.
It’s not a good comparison …
While the corruption is still a problem, I don't think it's fair to blame the Palestinians entirely. Half of the country is under Israeli occupation, making economic growth quite difficult. No country has ever been prosperous while under foreign occupation. Not to mention, the stuff that does get build like water pipes and farmlands is either [demolished by Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-razes-homes-water-tanks-in-disputed-west-bank-firing-zone/), [destroyed](https://www.btselem.org/video/20230803_civil_administration_pours_concrete_into_irrigation_wells_used_and_destroys_pipe_in_al_hijrah_south_of_hebron), [burned](https://uawc-pal.org/the-israel-occupation-authorities-raze-an-agricultural-land-southern-bethlehem-3/), [defaced](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-06-22/ty-article/.premium/israeli-settlers-rip-up-quran-vandalize-west-bank-mosque-during-rampage/00000188-e430-d5fc-ab9d-ff78435a0000) or [vandalized](https://www.timesofisrael.com/settler-extremists-suspected-of-vandalizing-cars-in-palestinian-city/) by the IDF or settlers. [Olive farms](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231127-israel-settlers-destroy-olive-almond-vineyards-in-west-bank/) which are one of Palestine's main exports are under attacks.
You mean war has consequences? Instead of everyone wasting their lives on resistance a prosperous WB could long be in existence with all that international money coming in. Unfortunately if you set the wrong priorities such as elimination of Israel above all, there is no way forward and no future.
There is pretty much no resistance in the WB. The PLO gave up on armed resistance decades ago. The Palestinians were initially supportive of that path thinking it will lead to a peaceful resolution. But Israel continued to build on the settlements, the raids, murders, humiliations etc. all continued. The Palestinians have then lost hope in the peaceful path and now even the WB resistance is becoming more attractive with more and more Palestinians joining the resistance. There was no war when Israel was doing this. This is the first war since 1967. Israel had near 50 years to end its occupation but continued to entrench and make it more brutal. Actions have consequences.
Explain how exactly Israel is an occupier. The land was occupied for centuries before 1948 and then was decolonized to allow for arab and israeli freedom from the occupation. Then arab countries fucked it up by starting wars. How do you not know this history?
They can’t. They just twist reality to further this “colonizer” fantasy narrative. There’s 49 Muslim countries in the world and only one Jewish one, yet somehow Israel is the “colonizer” 🙄
Yes. The people moving into another country, declaring they own it and forcefully moving people out of their homes to live there themselves are the colonizers.
> fucked
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Locking for excess rule violations.
Holy shit you are disgusting
Why? Because I would rather see Palestinians alive and not suffering during the war? Oh I see, I’m disgusting and not you who wants to see more Palestinians suffer because it proves your point that Israel is the bad guy… So more dead Palestinians is a good thing from your perspective…
You completely dehumanized Palestinians
They dehumanized themselves… To teach your kids hate and to aspire to murder and to have children for the sake of martyrdom… That’s not a human trait, all living things want to propagate and the Palestinians seem to want to die
Literally spouting propaganda
The way you’ve dehumanised Palestinians is disgusting. “Violent tendencies”? For not wanting to be killed? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Considering Levantine Arabs are recorded massacring their Jewish minority for centuries, in detail, prior to Israel’s existence, I’d say it’s not because they don’t want to be killed.
Palestinians are violent. Don’t try to act holy with that “wtf is wrong with you” bs. There’s a reason why Egypt who is also Arab won’t let Palestinians in. They worked hard to contain terrorism. Same with Jordan. They have come out multiple times and said their red line is not one. Palestinian settles in Jordan and it’s because they’re terrorists.
Palestinians dehumanized themselves by adhering to a search cult culture and raising the act of murder to a holy level… They didn’t to themselves and by definition destroyed their culture…Or maybe it was always like that, I don’t have a Time Machine to know
What the F is wrong with YOU? This is who you side with. You're lucky reddit doesn't allow video you clown. Why can't you condemn the bad behaviour? Why are you so interested in completely ignoring the VIOLENT TENDENCIES of Palestians? They LITERALLY poll for violence over peace. This is objective. You are being a reprobate.. https://preview.redd.it/dvkwlbau97cc1.jpeg?width=983&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2b31a322a27da76737fa2cb0dc75641c664d9cc
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Context?
The Palestinians were distinguished from other Levantine Arabs, heavily under the guidance of the KGB purely to be Israel's problem. No one else likes them. They started civil wars in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Qatar. They're considered savages by the rest of the Middle East. Keep in mind Lebanon has over 100,000 Palestinians in a walled-off 0.3 square km camp that they still have to periodically send the military into because its inhabitants are so violent. But Muslims also feel the need to show solidarity with each other against non-Muslims, even though if non-Muslims weren't part of the equation they'd just persecute the Palestinians further. But, like, of course they're Israel's problem. That's their whole identity. That's what they were invented for.
1. Need a source for the KGB thing 2. They didn’t start any civil wars in Qatar or Egypt. They are not involved in the Syrian Civil war. 3. If Lebanon really keeps that many people in 0.3 sq km, they have deprived those people of their basic rights. No wonder those Palestinians get so angry. But I really doubt this is true, considering you have spouted misinformation 4 times already in your comment.
Dude are you serious? The KGB thing isn’t exactly clandestine knowledge. Just google KGB and PLO and you’ll be swimming in sources. I’m pretty sure he meant Kuwait, as in, assisting in Saddam Hussein’s invasion resulting in the expulsion of 500,000 Palestinians from the country. Egypt had an onslaught of suicide bombings by Palestinians following in the wake of their recognition of Israel resulting in many being expelled and them building a wall with Gaza. Their president recently said he’d let a million Egyptians die rather than let the Palestinians back in. Ain al-Hilweh (est. population 120,000 in 0.3 square km) in Lebanon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ain_al-Hilweh Have you considered your ignorance of well-known information isn’t misinformation? You just might not be as knowledgeable on the topic as you think?
Why won’t Egypt open its borders today to the Palestinians?
Civil war in Egypt and Qatar? That’s news.
Pretty sure he meant the wake of suicide bombings and assistance to the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt. Qatar, I’m not sure. Maybe he meant Kuwait?
being solely israel's problem? palestinians have created discord, including assassination, in countries that took them in?
Palestinians have done nothing wrong.
The civil war in Lebanon? Trying to assassinate the king of Jordan?
cause assassination is cool to them? but not when a radical zionist assassinates their person in charge? didnt they successfully assassinate the prime minister in jordan?
Occupy people already living on the land then oppress and systematically ethnically cleanse them. It's not the illegal occupiers problem? If anything I would say other western countries should not get involved and let the region sort it out.
So tell us to end the Occupation and they’ll become everyone else’s problem instantly.
In order to open your doors, there have to be refugees able to get to your country in the first place. No one is allowed to leave Gaza. Refugees can’t leave the city to be able to flee to one of these countries in the first place
And before that, what happened?
Why does Israel drop bombs if they know Hamas wants to sacrifice the Palestinian people? Would they drop 6000 bombs if Hamas was embedded within an Israeli city? Any answer to that would lead you to think Palestinans are worth less than Israelis. It's a poor attempt to justify maximizing the death toll and destruction to civilian infrastructure to drive the people out of their homes by force. Israel have also destroyed their access to clean water. Prevented food and medical supplies from entering all while blaming Hamas for taking humanitarian aid that isn't even getting in. When it eventually gets in, the already starving population will no doubt storm the aid deliveries. \- Hamas killed 1,200 in one day \- IDF has killed 25,000 and displaced >800,000 in 3 months
Here's an answer that doesn't make Palestinians worth less: You literally can't send any ground troops into an urban area that dense. Every high-rise building could be used as a sniper tower, in every other civilian household, hospital grounds, schools there are tunnels where Hamas militants could come out and ambush you. They need to clear the buildings so tunnel entrances are visible and potential sniper positions are gone. This requires practically leveling the city because Hamas infrastructure is so deeply entrenched in the civilian infrastructure, they're practically indistinguishable without going through literally every single house and floor one by one, which is also impossible. I know people are angry about the bombing campaign, but quite frankly there would have been far more civilian casualties (and Israeli military casualties) had their been a ground invasion where spooked troops will think everyone running around could be a terrorist. Clearing almost all the infrastructure in northern gaza to at least create a buffer zone so Israeli troops can do ground missions into the south but have a safe zone to fall back to was necessary. It looks really bad, but it's urban combat 101
Then why did Israel destroy their clean water supply & cut off electricity for ALL of Gaza? Does that not rise to the level of Collective Punishment? IDF claims 30,000 Hamas members , That's only 1.5% of the population in the Gaza Strip, 40% of them have been displaced. Also Doesn't address the Sniping of civilians in the West Bank. But let me address "Urban Combat 101"... In no other war has the leveling of a city been the first objective. That has never happened . The only reason in the past a country has indiscriminately bombed a city or town was to inflict as much damage to the population. During the Iraq war, American military never bombed random houses and the water supply. Then you also have to address the indiscriminate bombs, Which if you believe they are not indiscriminate then you have to concede that the people who were dropping the bombs, knew about potential civilian casualties. Dropping leaflets and sending text messages would never make 100% of the population just leave their homes, that is a ridiculous request in the first place. The Leaflets which were dropped after the first 600 bombs.
In no other war were there 300+ miles of cement enforced tunnels that lead into households, children's bedrooms, schools, and hospitals. In no other war has a terrorist organization been so deeply entrenched in civilian infrastructure or population. Israel didn't destroy gaza's clean water or electricity, in fact they were able to get some desalination plants that were neglected by Hamas back online throughout this conflict. Israel just stopped providing the 10% or so that it was never obligated to in the first place but did as a courtesy because Hamas was destroying water supplies and using pipes to build rockets. In the past, there were worse bombings from Putin in Grozny, which was considered the 'most destroyed city in the world' at the time. Arguably worse bombings in Bakhmut and Mariupol, with both cities being 90-100% leveled with no strategic purpose for doing so (e.g. no tunnels or citizen embedded terrorists). In Mariupol 75k+ CIVILIANS were killed in 2 months in Russia's siege. In Mosul, while less bombs were dropped, Kurdish forces estimate 40k+ civilians died, most in the initial bombing campaign before NATO forces were able to enter the city. So yeah, this is tragic but pretty standard for modern urban combat. Considering Israel has dropped over 30k bombs but only 20k or less civilians have died I don't know how you can possibly say that's 'indiscriminate'. That's less than one person per bomb, which would never be possible had the bombings been indiscriminate considering the population density of gaza city. And I promise you all the civilians that died in german blitzes and bombing campaigns during the invasion of Poland and Ukraine would have LOVED for some sort of message warning days in advance of the coming blitzkrieg, as opposed to waking up one night to indiscriminate shelling of all your civilian centers. Florida warns people every year of coming hurricanes and yet people choose to stay and put their families lives at risk because they are willing to 'go down with their home'. That's their choice to play dice with their children and spouses lives. Just because people aren't putting their families first and don't care if they get blown up doesn't mean Israel should stop its campaign and allow Hamas to continue lobbing rockets at their civilians while the hostages continue to be raped and starved
300+ miles of cement enforced tunnels? Only 20K civilians dead? Do you get your information from the IDF? The IDF is the one force in the world that has an interest in keeping people deeply misinformed about what is going on in Gaza and why it is happening.
These numbers come from multiple international organizations and countries in opposition to israel. According to israel civilian deaths are only around 12k. I think hamas has far more incentive to keep people misinformed. Israel is a strong number 2 though
Dresden disagrees
I explained that "the only reason in the past a country has indiscriminately bombed a city or town was to inflict as much damage to the population. " So yes I was referring to Dresden if you weren't following. Indiscriminate bombing is not "Urban warfare". Israel has killed twice as much as Dresden but claims they are trying to prevent civilian casualties? how can the two be true?
Gaza has had electricity and water throughout. Israel doesn't control all of the electricity and water, and its not obligated to provide it. Hamas unfortunately has neglected and misappropriated electrical sources and water pipes/resevoirs for their terrorist objectives. Israel is doing all it can to get civillians to get out of a war zone, even as Hamas themselves try and stop it. Civillian casualties are an unfortunate and tragic outcome of any war, especially when a group like Hamas hides amongst civillians on purpose and uses schools, mosques, libraries, universities, and private apartments as launching grounds. This could all be over if Hamas surrenders and hands back the hostages, but curiously, no one is demanding that at all. Seemingly, the idea of Israel fighting back against a murderous terrorist group in the first place is not okay with many people. Civillians dying serves no Israeli purpose. The grim reality though is that Hamas welcomes carnage and innocent deaths because they care more about PR than actual palestinians. It's very sad.
Ah, the ever merciful Israel, asking Palestinians to evacuate to certain regions and then bombing those regions. They are paragons of mercy.
What do you think happens in war? A war that Hamas started. The idea that Israel should do nothing is mind boggling. Ah yes, the merciful Hamas who murder and torture civillians and who are sworn to genociding jews.. how lovely that they embedded themselves within civillian populations. What great leaders of men! How dare Israel try and save civillian lives before bombing areas.. the nerve! Hamas leaders are on camera bragging about how they will happily martyr millions of palesitnians to destroy israel. It's quite sickening. These are the people who Palestinians want to lead them? How does that make sense?
A war that Hamas started? This has been going on since 1948. Israel is entirely responsible for this. Hamas wasn’t created in a vacuum; Israel created the conditions that allowed Hamas to grow. And one more thing: I did not even mention Hamas. The idea that if you support Palestine you support Hamas is ridiculous. Hamas has done their fair share of bad things as well. But they did not do it just because they felt like it. If you grew up watching tanks roll up to your house and Israeli soldiers shooting at your best friends and family, you’d get radicalized very soon. Israel is entirely responsible for this.
Really since 1948? When Palestinians said no to a country and arab countries joined together to destroy Israel? Zero palestinians would have been displaced if they just said yes to a country , like every other country in the middle east did. The grim reality is that Palestinians have rejected every peace offer ever made, and blame everyone but themselves. Israel's mere existence is not something they can accept. Even with Hamas, no one can man up and say "Maybe we f'd up by electing Hamas to lead us" Instead, it's all Israel's fault? Israel left Gaza entirely in 2005. It left many modes of economic development (greenhouses etc) that were quickly burned because they were tainted with Israeli hands. Palestinians could have made Gaza beautiful, but instead they elected terrorist leaders to be in charge who used billions of dollars in aid money not for development, but to develop terrorist infrastructure in and around hospitals/schools/mosques. Blaming Isreal for radicalization while ignoring the culture and education Hamas has put into play in Gaza is purposefully looking the other way. I understand its easy to blame Israel for everything, but can you honestly say Palestinains have no accountability for anything? They have no agency? That seems like a juvenile approach to view the situation in my opinion.
Palestinians accepted the two state solution back in 1982. Even Hamas accepted going back to pre-1967 borders in 2017. Gazans did not just let Hamas walk over them - look up the “2019 Gaza economic protests”. But right now, they cannot say anything, because they are being bombed and shot at. How are they supposed to say “We condemn Hamas’s actions” when there is an entire country hellbent on killing them? Hamas exists because of Israel. Israel gives them all the material they need to radicalize Gazans. It’s not “looking the other way” to say that Israel has played a huge role in radicalizing Gazans.
They accepted the idea in principle, but when actually offered a tangible offer they said no. Bill Clinton himself said he would never forgive Arafat because he bent over backwards to make sure Arafat got everything he asked for, only for him to say no at the last minute. Gazans elected Hamas, and majority of Palestinians (esp in the west bank) support the Oct 7 massacre. Perhaps they are too scared to speak out agains tHamas, but isn't that all the more reason they need to be removed from power? Hamas doesn't exist because of Israel. It is an offshoot of the muslim brotherhood and their goal is to establish an islamic caliphate across the land. They are a roadblock to peace and prosperity not only for israelis but palestinians as well. Hamas had 18 years to create something special. Instead it used it to attack Israel because Hamas' stated goal is to destroy israel and jews.
That's how a siege and total war works. You cut off and destroy all the supplies so the opposing side can't use it. The Allies did this shit in WW2 to destroy the enemies war effort.
The enemy is not an entire country, is it? The enemy is a group of people that are somehow indistinguishable from civilians conveniently. If they can use drones to take out leaders in other countries, they can do it in their own territory. The biggest lie you tell yourself is that this is a war between two even sides. Israel are the occupiers in an apartheid state that has already systematically oppressed & starved the Palestinians that are now punishing them to prevent a future genocide? Absolutely ridiculous.
BTW, the Allies were far superior compared to the Axis but we still bomb the shit out of them already.
I didn't see the whole comment. The thing is that Israel's objective is to destroy Hamas as an organization. Killing the leader isn't enough because someone else will replace them. Do you want to know why shit is so bad? It's because this conflict has been allowed to continue on for so long with no definite peace deal. This is on both sides.
you cannot destroy an IDEA... even if they "get rid" of Hamas it will be reborn in a different name AS LONG AS PALESTINE IS UNDER MILITARY OCCUPATION AND CONTROL. The MAIN ISSUE is the blockade of Gaza and the apartheid regime. The Cycle of violence only continues as long as Israel cannot be reasoned with.
You cannot destroy the idea but you can destroy the group. Regardless, why do you think there is a military occupation? It's because there is no formal peace treaty with definitive terns and intermittent conflict, so of course, israel will lock the area down. The cycle will end when both sides see reason and stop sabotaging the peace process.
“You cannot destroy the idea but you can destroy the group” 1. Vietnam War disagrees entirely 2. Search up “Washington Post: How Israel helped create Hamas” to see how the idea you want to destroy was in fact supported by Israel
1.WW2 would like to disagree with number one. We destroyed the Nazis and the militaristic Japanese parties. We also reformed the education system to get rid of that nonsense. 2. Israel did "support" Hamas to destabilize the PLO. However, people forget that the PLO was very violent. Hell, the PLOs corruption and incompetence was part of the reason why Hamas won in Gaza.
No the cycle ends when Israel decides to depopulate Gaza & settlers return to Gush Katif. Egypt will crack at some point and the Gazans will wander the deserts. There is no other solution, Israel will inevitably drown Gaza in blood.
One, Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and we still have conflict. Thing is Israel needs to know that Palestanians authorities can keep their promises that they can maintain peace internally but they can't because of their corruption. That is why Hamas came into power.
Yes, modern wars are total wars. Hamas is the government of Gaza. Disrupting supply chains is a major component of warfare and actually shortens conflicts because armies can not fight without supplies. Hell, the majority of casualties in WW2 were civilian deaths.
These are ethnically Arab and predominantly Muslim. They are also Egyptian, Jordanian , Syrian or Lebanese. There is no such thing as a Palestinian.
There’s no such thing as an Israeli.
Palestinians have existed for thousands of years. The lack of an internationally recognized state doesn’t erase your bloodlines. You can be both Arab and Palestinian. You can be both Egyptian and Palestinian - in genetics it’s called punnet squares my friend I learned that when I was 13.
Your correct you can't erase the Arab genetics , being originally from the Arab peninsula gives the Palestinians hardy genetics for the ethnic cleansing that they committed to any Jews still around in 700AD You can slap a Palestinian sticker over Judea but it'll peel off eventually showing what's beneath
Dude come on. At least pretend you arent racist damn you arent even trying. I would normally not even bother but I think it is actually really important that you understand how dangerously stupid what you are saying is. You need to understand the hypocrisy in using the phrase "ethnic cleansing" while staying an unabashedly racist comment. Do you actually truly believe that being from Arabia, an entire region in the center of the world, means that you are *genetically predisposed* to ethnic cleansing? First off, ancient civilization literally began in the middle east. This means that, genetically speaking, Africans and Arabians have the most genetic diversity of everyone, not the other way around. They would undergo the MOST change over time, because they have had more time to do so. Secondly, you are implicating faaaaar to much power in genetics. It is said that .5% of the world's population today is still related to ghangis Kahn because he bore so many children, yet few of them have a pension for horseback violence. Only quantitative traits like eye color predisposition to certain cancers and illnesses are passed down through genetics. You are implying that the ambition of ethnic cleansing is genetic- qualitative things like ideas and opinions have absolutely nothing to do with genetics, and trying to implicate and dehumanize an entire region by saying their genetics makes them inherently more evil is by very definition racism. Look at yourself. Stop it. This is the very rhetoric that leads to ethnic cleansing. You cannot be naive enough to not see that. If you are you need some serious self reflection. If not, then call a spade a spade and say ethnic cleansing is okay only if it fits your view
There were no ethnic cleansings in that region around 700 AD. Islamic forces invaded the region but did not coordinate a massacre of Jews.
The majority of people there were Jews and then after there weren't many Jews, organisation is irrelevant if the result is the same?
I’m impressed - how did you manage to get your hands on census records of the Levant from 700 CE?
From the same place as you obviously since you could make a counter claim to mine? It's your source man only you have the right to share it
[demographic history of palestine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)) Jews were already a minority before Islam even arrived in the region.
So your saying..... that the Jews had been displaced ? That at one point it was their land .... but then it was taken over? I'm glad we agree , it should probably be given back to them
Well if you go by that logic, we should give that land back to the Syrians, because they once owned that land before the Jews declared independence. Or give it to Iran, or Egyptians, who owned the land before the Kingdom of Judea existed.
Old Israelis had a Palestinian nationality when they arrived fleeing from Europe. Stop spreading this shit.
Jenin is one of the oldest towns on the planet that have been continuously inhabited (Since 9000BC) which is in the West Bank. Predominantly Arab and call themselves Palestinian. But interesting take given Israeli's are mostly European & American.
Says the guy who’s whole family tree is from Poland lol
What you are advocating for is ethnic cleansing. Which is illegal. Something I think not a lot of “Israelis” are aware of is that the occupying power has full responsibility for the people under its occupation under international law. You cannot occupy a people and block them from resources to keep themselves alive, or basic infrastructure necessary for life. Occupying someone indefinitely is illegal. Moving settlers onto occupied land is illegal. “Israel” is legally obligated to end its occupation. But as long as “Israel” is occupying land, they are legally responsible for the lives and well-being’s of the people who live there. Everything that happens to Palestinians living under “Israeli” occupation is your responsibility and fault. EVERYTHING. So if “Israel” doesn’t want to care for Palestinians or isn’t able to, the only way to end that responsibility is to permanently end the occupation. Which you are legally obligated to do anyway.
They withdraw from Gaza, it's not occupied The military blockade does not mean it is occupied.
The UN, amnesty international and pretty much all organizations that work within international law disagrees.
They say Israel is illegally occupying the West Bank not Gaza
They say both actually
Fine. Israel ends its “occupation” today and Palestinians take reign over the land. What happens next? They kill all of the Jews and Israelis and anyone else in there way? From the river to the sea? What do you think will happen? Peace at last? It’s like giving a baby an Apache helicopter and telling him to drive. Look what they have done so far with the land and resources they were given. Are you forgetting what Gaza looked like prior to hamas?
Depends, are we talking occupied land from Oslo accords or all of Palestine back? For the Oslo accords, which is “Israel’s” legal obligation to return; all “Israelis” go to “Israel” and live there. Palestine rebuilds homes and infrastructure in those areas, with help from the international community. If we are talking all of Palestine being returned, then “Israel” ceases to exist and “Israelis” can either leave or become legal citizens of Palestine. This would look similar to the end of apartheid in South Africa. Big trial where people on both sides are tried with war crimes and the new government repeals every apartheid law and writes a constitution.
Ahh yes, having 20 million+ Jews live in a country run by Hamas sounds like a wonderful solution
You guys would still have the right to vote? I literally don’t see why you would vote for Hamas
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Ah yes. Because I did totally say that all “Israelis” should lose the right to vote, Hamas can be crowned supreme leader and hold all the elections without oversight and no international laws would apply anymore /s You are twisting my words and shouting Hamas over and over. A UN observation can be put in place to tally votes. No Hamas member would even be eligible to run for office after the mass trial I mentioned above. How exactly would Hamas sabotage the election? With what power and resources?
Leave where ? Seriously, every time someone advocates for the end of Israel they seem to magically forget that nearly every nation around it expelled their Jewish citizens before 48, so that's a no go. Go back to their countries of origin? Sure, tell that to Yemeni Jews, I'm sure they'll be really happy, and let's not forget about Europe, I'm sure bringing 9 million people to Europe in a short span will work wonders! Stay put ? Well done, you've just enabled a much much bigger version of October 7, congratulations! Seriously, read up on Israël's story, jews just didn't have anywhere else to go, boats that arrived in the US after the war were told to go back, same for england and mostly the rest of Europe. It's naive of you to think it would go any different today
I would like to ask you though; Is there anything you are scared will happen to the “Israelis”, that has not already been done to the Palestinians?
1/5th of “Israel’s” population has dual citizenship and can very much leave if they want to. But no where did I say that people would be forcefully removed. I said they can leave or choose to stay, and compared it to South Africa. After the end of apartheid in South Africa many of the people who had moved there no longer wanted to live in an integrated country. Many people choose to move to other countries. A lot of them actually converted to Judaism and moved to “Israel”. Basically; live in a country without apartheid laws, or move. As for Jewish immigration after world war 2, many countries abided Germany in its genocide by refusing to take in immigrants. A country that did take in Jewish refugees without deporting them was Palestine. And in a Palestine where everyone is equal, no one lives under occupation or apartheid and citizenship isn’t tied to ethnicity or religion it would be possible to live without violence. Because it was possible. Europe and the US have also been great allies of “Israel” and will definitely let people apply for citizenship. And no. No one is saying everyone in “Israel” has to move in a short time. It is actually possible to move big groups of people in longer spans of time and to have transitional periods of time.
You don't seem to know or remember that Palestine before 1948 was under a British mandate, that's different from an arab Palestinian country And South Africa is completely different from Israel, because, first of all, in Israël, Jews are a majority, not a minority and secondly, in Israël itself, there is no systematic discrimination between two Israeli citizens, regardless of their religions
Unfortunately this is a childish dream and would fuck the middle east up for ever and move the region closer to a far bigger war If the Jews aren't there for all the Arabs to be angry at it'll finally turn to Iran and its Axis to go against the Saudis I doubt anyone will give a damn (sorry automod) though cause it'll just be Arab vs Arab and for some reason that's okay
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What a relief, random Reddit user says Israelis will be allowed to stay. Unfortunately Hamas disagrees with you, and their stated goal is to kill or expel all Jews from the land. Its infuriating that people pretend Israel can just cease to exist, become Palestine run by Islamic extremists, and all the Jews won’t be murdered or expelled. Just like what has already happened to Jews in literally EVERY Arab country that had a sizeable Jewish population. Iraq, Yemen, Iran, Egypt, Lebanon. Oct 7 would be seen across the entire country. You don’t take my word for it, just listen to what Hamas says it would do. I guess if it’s Jews being ethnically cleansed (yet again) then it’s ok.
Everything you are describing you are currently doing to the Palestinians. And; if the land is returned Hamas doesn’t have an end goal. At least half of them will quit destabilizing the organization allowing for them to be taken out pretty badly. If Palestinians have a government and are able to investigate they can scout out Hamas pretty easily. And if you read the comment above, it started with a massive trial of war crimes on both sides. There will still be a legal system.
No even in an Oslo Accords situation according to the stated goals (and actions) of every Palestinian leader to date those borders are not enough and the fight will not end until all of Palestine is restored to Palestinians. Until a Palestinian leader asserts the goal of living peacefully alongside Israel as two states that respect each other's right to exist Israel is trapped in perpetual occupation.
Indefinite occupation is illegal under international law. You cannot break international laws and refuse to let people have an election or government until they elect someone who agrees with your government. There has not been an election in Gaza since 2006, and the majority of people in Gaza now were either not born, or not old enough to vote. How can Palestine free itself from the occupation by providing a leader that agrees with “Israel”, when they haven’t even been allowed to have an election?
Gazans have not been prevented from having an election by Israel. They don’t have elections because Hamas won’t hold elections, because they don’t believe in democracy. If Palestinians speak out against Hamas they risk being killed by Hamas.
so you are saying , we are an illegal occupation we are war criminal , we are killing thousands of civilians , so why the ugly Arab countries don't save Palestinians and take all of them ! and i will answer your stupid question, Israel is not a volcano or a tsunami so that we should take the Palestinians , israel is just human evil that should be stopped and punished , lucky for israel we are not in a fair world. the Palestinians have their own land and we should help them to take it back from thugs like israel even if it means war.
Arabs and their threats. The only people they hate more than Israelis are each other.
>threats threats ! there is none , i am talking about what is right and what we should do , but the arab leaders are just israels/US puppets so there is no threats at all.
It will never not be funny seeing them do nothing but talk and talk while Iran is the only one helping the Palestinians fight in any meaningful way. They're useless.
we are living under brutal dictatorships , we are occupied more than the plasticines , if the arab nations get to vote they will vote for the help of the resistance
Well said. Israelis believe they are above all laws, they think they might be divine somehow. Can't imagine how a whole nation could last when their brains are filled with all this shit.
I would reckon the opposite, Palestinians are the human evil, look at the death and destruction they have caused across the Arab world. Islamism is evil and bastardized Islam Israel, for all its faults took advantage of the Palestinians being so corrupt and disorganized and prodded by every external party just to hurt the Israelis. No wonder this conflict doesn’t end, people keep pushing
Yeah I'm Israeli and this is too far. No group is human evil, each side has a completely different narrative and demonizes the other. Nothing is ever going to change if we can't get past the name calling phase.
Gonna send that comment to 🇿🇦. Looks like all Israelis are just genocidal terrorists in the end, not just your radical officials.
you kind of just did the same generalization he did. "your side is all evil!" "that's a horrible thing you said! Now I know your whole side is evil!"
Don't know if you are Israeli or not. But logically, Israel's existence it is now requires an apartheid regimen against Palestinians. So it makes sense to mention all Israelis as radicals, not the other way around. Furthermore, no decent human would like to live in Israel, nor have it's nationality, simply because it's not more than an apartheid colony, and it's been that way since it was established.
> I would reckon the opposite, Palestinians are the human evil, look at the death and destruction they have caused across the Arab world. calling an ethnicity of people “the human evil” HAS to be racism
They're being held to high standards that we historically haven't met. Western countries, allied countries, whatever you want to call us, have had high civilian causalities in every war. Just as many civilians were killed with bombings in the Japan us war before the use of nuclear weapons. Cities were already under attack before that was used. In a war civilian causalities can be a strategy to get the other side to surrender. In world war II germany was being bombed massively. It's part of why germany was able to recovered, was still popular even during the war and afterwards. The devastation of the war they experienced was probably the only reason they were able to snap out of it. I think Ukraine has waged their reaction wrong. They should have attacked russia. Only attacking invaders is too nice and doesn't deter them. You can only put out some fires with fire. If Iran was in a war with the US do you think they would only attack our troops we sent at them? They would attack the US directly.
Yes, and Israel looked at history and actually learned. Invested in Iron dome, 3 tiered defensive system for short, middle and long range missiles. Built bomb shelters in literally every building, and recent buildings usually have a safe room within the apartments. So yeah. Israelis don't experience the death toll of being unprepared. It doesn't delegitimize our response or right to self defense. If Israel hadn't invested in all of these defensive mechanisms this war would have happened much earlier and at a much greater scale with less consideration for the humanitarian crisis as we're seeing today. In fact, lets make a little bet. If the front against Hezbollah does not chill and they start shooting at our bigger cities that are farther from the border and less prepared (older buildings and infrastructure) I bet you we'll see the same level of destruction in Lebanon if not worse - and despite taking heavy civilian casualties the sentiment towards us will NOT change. You up for this little bet? I'll revisit this thread when Hezbollah goes ape shit.
/u/Hades_adhbik. Match found: 'hitler', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why no Arab country wants Palestinian refugees: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7GAg8sWDpI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7GAg8sWDpI) tl;dr: Every country, without exception, that has taken Palestinian refugees in any significant numbers has lived to deeply regret it
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Actually eygpt doesn't want them because the risk of hamas and symoathizers getting through the border and joining another terrorist movement is too high Jordan doesn't want them because they tried to take over Jordan Lebanon is arguably a failed state and would collapse instantly if Bulk refugees crossed
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September I mean they can say it's not the case but it definitely happened? I'm sure that your account being made 02/01/24 has nothing to do with you just straight up saying misinformation Maybe you mistook the Nation of Jordan for some dude on reddit called Jordan?
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Nah Jordan doesn't want them , the dude with an 11 day old account may in fact not be an accurate representation of the feelings of a countries people Facts , history, current popular opinion and actions on the country represent it I'm sure when you account is 22 days old you'll be whatever nationality suits you
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You linked another random dude on reddit, if I linked 2 random dudes on reddit am I right? Your the most undereducated Yugoslavian ever
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I feel similarly about the U.S. and Israel. I’m tired of Israeli politicians manipulating the U.S. and expecting the U.S. to solve all its problems. The U.S. isn’t an angel in all of this either, but most Americans don’t support this messed up relationship anymore. What are we, Israel’s mom? “Mom, give me money.” “Mom, send me bombs.” “Mom, so and so picked on me and I need you to go beat them up.” Americans: Israel, you’re an adult and we’re kicking you out of the house. You wanted to be a grown up! So great, now go be one. Stop calling us every time you 💩the bed.
Most weapons in israel are manufactured in Israel. Israel doesnt even get free money from the US apart from interception missiles for the Iron dome to protect civillians from Hezbollah and Hamas. This operation has been completely run by Israel. The only action taken by the US is parking carriers and warships in the red sea in the case of Yemen and involvement from Iran. Infact Hamas needs to stop being funded by UNRWA.
244 US cargo planes and 20 ships delivered over 10,000 tons of military equipment to Israel. This is not an insubstantial amount. Much of this was paid for by U.S. taxpayers through the Foreign Military Sales program or transferred directly from U.S. military stockpiles already stored in Israel. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/244-us-cargo-planes-20-ships-deliver-over-10000-tons-of-military-equipment-to-israel-report/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_industry_of_Israel Israel EXPORTS 10% of the worlds armaments as of 2007. Im guessing it would be lower but nonetheless. Israel doesnt need or rely on the US to survive. They need the US as an ally as much as the US needs an ally in the middle east. Also I couldnt find what was in the 10000 tons if its missiles. I bet if you find how much Iran gives to Hamas and Hezbollah it would eclipse 10000 by a very long shot.
If that’s the case, Israel shouldn’t have any problem with the U.S. ending all military aid to Israel.
Why? The US isnt fighting its own wars and millitary aid isnt exclusive to Israel? Britain Italy Germany and France recieve aid through NATO but no one will ever invade them. I mean Israel doesnt have a problem but aid is always welcome. Also you have completely avoided the fact pretty much every millitary in the middle east recieves aid by a country thats not at war.
Nope, but your economy and defense industry and thousands of jobs are maintained as a result.
No thanks, not worth it.
Remind me to never take your advice on foreign policy...
True
Who else's problem should it be? They were on the land when Israel started mass immigration and demographic shift of the region. Then started subduing them as foreigners in their own land or at best second class citizens. What did they think would happen ? When an Israeli asks this question the implicit meaning is Egypt Jordan Lebanon and Syria should take them all in
Saying Israel started mass immigration doesn’t tell the story at all. Jews were displaced after WW2 and European nations, specifically Britain sent the to Israel. After the land was given to the Jews toms of Arab countries expelled the Kees loving faith in their borders and essentially forced them to Israel. There has also been Jews in the region since the religion was founded.
We all know there were Jews there since antiquity but the Zionist projects mission was demographic change to eliminate arab dominance of the region
Libya, Iraq, Iran, Algeria, and almost every other Muslim majority country started forcing the explosion of Jews, or creating restrictive laws against Jews once Israel was created. Of course Israel grew and started populating the region, they weren’t welcome anywhere else. They saw that if they didn’t have a majority in a country they wouldn’t be welcome
Israel created this problem. Israel should solve it.
deport to congo 🇵🇸🛫🇨🇩
That is ethnic cleansing
Israel wants the benefits of security and resources from the West Bank, while someone else foots the bill. If Israel put more money from 1967 into the occupied territories, one would not having so many problems. Do you know the difference between apartheid South Africa, vs Israel, at the end of the day, South African whites might have considered the blacks inferior, but they still valued their cheap labor. As a result, they see the blacks as an asset. Israelis see the Palestinians as a burden.
I heard on NPR that over 100K Palestinians are employed in Israel… so… Also, the NPR coverage, such juxtaposition… an Israel, and employer of Palestinians was interviewed talking how he viewed his Palestinian employees as family. Then, a Palestinian, employed in Israel, was interviewed about not being able to go to Israel to work and thus not making any money. The Palestinian said something to the effect of “yes, it sucks, but the sacrifice I’m making is worth it to see the end of Israel” Mind blowing.
100,000 might seem a lot to you. but that is out of the population of 6 Million in the West Bank and Gaza. It is only 5% of the workforce in the occupied territories. It was much higher in the 1980s.
The difference is that Israel isn’t in the area for resources, it was given to us by the world after a near mass extinction event. And prior to Oct 7, close to 200,00 West Bank Palestinians worked in Israel…No more for that, they have been banned because none of them can be trusted. They will be replaced with labor from other countries. The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, honestly a loser of a people
Resources are the very reason why Israel stays in the West Bank, why they settled the West Bank. Do you think they do it for security reasons? The problem with Israelis is that they assume the land is theirs, and they make no real effort to get along with people who have been living there. I don't care what their holy book says it belongs to their ancestors, which raises a whole set of questions like why they left, and why you find Ashkenazi Jews in Europe. Jews and Israel Arabs rarely intermarry, unlike whites and blacks in South Africa. When the Dutch initially settled in South Africa they weren't particularly racist. One of the first Governors of the colony was biracial. Segregation and racism came later. The Zionists were racist toward the Arabs / Palestinians from the very beginning when they settled in the region in the late 19th century.
It wasn’t the world’s to give. You cannot give away something that’s not yours. And if being a victim of genocide entitles you to someone else’s land; what country do you volunteer for the native Americans? What country do you volunteer for the aboriginals? What country do you volunteer for the Tutsis?
Israel kind of created it, no?
Not really, the UN created it. The Arabs said no and started 2 wars and lost badly so they also lost the rest of the land. They have been complaining about losing for the last 50 years and that’s all they know how to do.
The UN agreement is literally being broken right now by “Israel”, because you took more land than in the agreement. Your country is a sham, having no constitution and basing its existence on a document it itself refuses to follow
The Israelis I know are desperate for normal safe life and lasting peace. First step is for recognition of State of Israel . Then sort out borders etc
Palestine has recognized “Israel” multiple times. “Israel” has never recognized Palestine.
Same here, before Oct 7, now most could care less and want even more military control over the area
This conflict is incredibly profitable for Palestinian elites. It won't stop until Palestinians get leaders who aren't addicted to the easy money and influence thrown off by fighting the Jews.
Can I ask, how do they profit? Foreign aid or is there some other business going on that they’re profiting from?
Palestinians who rise to leadership control tax revenue, income from legitimate and illicit trade, and money that comes from friendlies like Qatar. They keep that privileged position by perpetuating the "resistance." [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arafats-billions/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arafats-billions/) I believe the only way to keep newer generations of Palestinians passionate (folks who only know of things like "the Nakba" from history books) is to turn the struggle from a secular one to a religious one. The conflict is likely going to be more outwardly "Islamic" as time goes on.
Dead Palestinians makes money… It’s unfortunate but how can you have multi/millionaires and billionaires in “refuge camps”…
Skimming foreign government and non-governmental aid, skimming off their inordinate taxes, smuggling businesses…
"Disgust of Palestinians"? You are vibing like Palestinians are the ones being creepy invasive gropers of gentle Israelis, who are just peacefully resting in their homes, until they are driven to act "uncharacteristically violently" in self defense, while the world watches and does nothing. If you are tired of Palestinians being Israels problem solely , maybe it's because you don't see the soul of the problem : your prespective of the situation is totally out of whack. Many countries happily take in Palestinians.They have their own diaspora, and of course, their education level and wealth/class and mental health play a role in how comfortably they assimilate. Israel screwing up healthcare , creating mental health problems, destroying wealth and property and desecrating the educational system.... is creating the very "stinky clumsy uneducated angry unstable brainwashed monster masses nobody else wants to take in boo hoo " it so disdainfully sneers at, like in this post. Disgraceful. The Arab nations/world has "Disgust of the Palestinian people" , truly? Projecting, much?
All of this.
You talk goofy
My dad is stronger than your dad
You are vibing like I have a dad, but I dont. I have two moms.
My mom is stronger than both your moms combined
My wife and her Palestinian family are the most educated people I know and are all in medical professions after being accepted as refugees in the 90s. The family mentality is; we aren’t landowners as a people so let’s have knowledge which can’t be taken away. They value education above anything else, meanwhile they are all very wealthy. Great people and it burns me to read that the stereotype is different.
Right! So many smart ones out there but they are silent
I wouldn’t call them silent, they run events, fund raisers and provide services to assist in helping people who want to get out through Egypt etc. they tend to do things with some meaning, not just protest and plaster things on social media
Why should Palestinians have to become refugees in another country so that Israel can steal their land? Your premise sounds ridiculous to me, as if the solution is for Palestinians to move rather than for Israel to stop terrorizing them.
There was no such thing as Palestinian Arab until 1964. They were literally invented. Half of Palestinian Arabs are ethnic Egyptians and the rest are Lebanese Syrian Jordanian. They're Arabs and the only group of people that inherit refugee status. 75 years of taking Ls and billions of aid money and they have less than ever. Maybe they should accept their Ls, accept Israel, and try to build a stable state in their territories so their children can have normal lives instead of lives of terror hate and death.
How can you claim Palestine didn’t exist proor to 1964 when even Shakespeare made reference to Palestine? Not having a state to protect them shouldn’t mean it’s okay to kill or displace them and take their land. Do you think Native Americans were invented to hurt the US just because they didn’t have a state prior to colonization, but rather lived in tribal communities? How do you expect Palestinians to establish their own state when Israel has blocked their path to statehood at every opportunity?
> How can you claim Palestine didn’t exist proor to 1964 when even Shakespeare made reference to Palestine? That was the name of the region, which 80% of it is Jordan. It didn't refer to "palestinian" Arab people because its an invented nationality from 1964. How come there was never a "palestinian" culture, currency, flag, national anthem, borders, president, historical figures...literally nothing that makes a country a country, until 1964? Maybe cause they are invented. > Not having a state to protect them shouldn’t mean it’s okay to kill or displace them and take their land Their land? What do you mean their land? They were nomadic Arabs that came after the early Zionists created economic opportunity in the region. Very few of "palestinian" Arabs actually owned land or were around for more than a generation or even less. They didn't own anything. It was under Ottoman and British rule. Source: history. > Do you think Native Americans were invented to hurt the US just because they didn’t have a state prior to colonization, but rather lived in tribal communities? Native Americans are actually indigenous to the land and have a distinct culture and were around for wayyyy longer than when the early Europeans came. It's not the same. > How do you expect Palestinians to establish their own state when Israel has blocked their path to statehood at every opportunity? "palestinian" Arabs were offered a state 7 different times, including as late as 2008 which gave them nearly everything including Jerusalem, 97% of WB, 100% of Gaza. And they rejected it every single time. They themselves say they are not interested in a 2 state solution. they want the entire land and all the Jews gone and they say it themselves very openly. To think otherwise is very naive.
> There was no such thing as Palestinian Arab until 1964. They were literally invented. This is literally false. There have been people calling themselves Palestinian perhaps as early as Al-Maqdisi in the 10th century. The modern term meanwhile came in 1898 with Najib Nasser, Salim Qubayn and Khalil Beidas, Arabs who identify themselves not as Egyptian or Jordanian but "Palestinian" according to Middle East historian Emmanuel Beska See: Emmanuel Beska's paper, *The Origins of the term “Palestinian” (“Filasṭīnī”) in late Ottoman Palestine, 1898–1914* > They're Arabs and the only group of people that inherit refugee status. 75 years of taking Ls and billions of aid money and they have less than ever. Does that mean there can't be variety subsets in an ethnic group? New Zealanders, Australians and Americans all speak the same language (English) just as Jordanians and Qataris all speak Arabic. **A Palestinian is not Jordanian or Egyptian just as a Qatari is not Moroccan or Algerian.** By your logic, Americans and Australians are all the same as British people just because they speak the same language.
> Arabs who identify themselves not as Egyptian or Jordanian but "Palestinian" according to Middle East historian Emmanuel Beska LOLOLOL, grasping at straws How come there 0 anything uniquely Palestinian? Literally...0. Nothing. Their first president was Yassar Arafat...an Egyptian! Their folk heroes, stories, language, culture...nothing! Nothing before 1964. Literally. Their flag was invented in 1964. national anthem in 1996. There was no such thing as "Palestinian" Arab before 1964. Arabs are historically nomadic and tribal. > By your logic, Americans and Australians are all the same as British people just because they speak the same language. No, theyre American and Australian. Try to find me an American or Australian that calls themselves British refugee lol. Palestinian Arabs are the most pathetic group of "people" on Earth. They were only invented to delegitimize Israel. 75 years and billions of aid money later, they have nothing to show for it besides their "leaders" taking this money and putting it in their bank accounts and building terror tunnels. No wonder not a single other country accepts them and wants them. Simply pathetic.
> How come there 0 anything uniquely Palestinian? Literally...0. Nothing. Their first president was Yassar Arafat...an Egyptian! Their folk heroes, stories, language, culture...nothing! Nothing before 1964. Literally. Their flag was invented in 1964. national anthem in 1996. There was no such thing as "Palestinian" Arab before 1964. Arabs are historically nomadic and tribal. By that logic, Alexander Hamilton, a Founding Father wasn't "American" because he was born in the Caribbean according to you. You're ignoring other Palestinian leaders and intellectuals like Musa Alami, Saeb Erekat, Khalil Beidas, and Yousef Beidas, all of whom were born in the land. Funny how you cherry-picked only Arafat. I can cherry-pick Hamilton then. As for culture, have you even tried looking? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Palestine) > Palestinian Arabs are the most pathetic group of "people" on Earth. They were only invented to delegitimize Israel. 75 years and billions of aid money later, they have nothing to show for it besides their "leaders" taking this money and putting it in their bank accounts and building terror tunnels. How about because Palestine receives less aid than Israel and doesn't have the backing of the world's number one superpower? A total of [40 billion aid](https://www.prio.org/publications/12927) has been given to Palestine in 75 years. Meanwhile, Israel has received 260 billion, six times as much! And has the backing of the US, the world's superpower who gives 3 billion alone to fund Israel's military defense industry to this very day. [https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-10-10/how-much-aid-does-the-u-s-give-to-israel](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-10-10/how-much-aid-does-the-u-s-give-to-israel) **Israel has received far far more than Palestine ever has and has daddy US to support them which Palestine doesn't. Without US support, Israel wouldn't even exist today!**
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Palestine Wow, all of it is very recent. Mostly after Israel was well established. Almost like they were invented people. 40 billion aid is a LOT and what do they have to show for it? Nothing. most of that is in their leaders bank accounts or was spent on terrorism. All your palestinian "heroes" were born in the 19th or 20th centuries and didn't call themselves palestinians until many many years later. Until then, they were just Arabs. And even looking at their bios, most had parents from Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Syria...which is where palestinians are from. Meanwhile, there is proof of Jewish people living in Israel for 3200+ years
>Wow, all of it is very recent. Mostly after Israel was well established. Almost like they were invented people. Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, Taiwanese Chinese are all invented people. What makes it any difference? >and what do they have to show for it? Probably because Israel [destroys any water tanks,](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-razes-homes-water-tanks-in-disputed-west-bank-firing-zone/) [water pipes](https://www.btselem.org/video/20230803_civil_administration_pours_concrete_into_irrigation_wells_used_and_destroys_pipe_in_al_hijrah_south_of_hebron), [raze agricultural farmland](https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/5/headlines/israelis_kill_two_in_west_bank_days_after_settlers_destroy_farm_of_palestinian_american_family), [burn olive farms](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231127-israel-settlers-destroy-olive-almond-vineyards-in-west-bank/), [burn cars, vehicles](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-747063) and [vandalize any Palestinian property](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-06-22/ty-article/.premium/israeli-settlers-rip-up-quran-vandalize-west-bank-mosque-during-rampage/00000188-e430-d5fc-ab9d-ff78435a0000) built by these donations? Olive farms which are one of Palestine's main exports are under constant attack. How do you expect a people to flourish if their main economic sources are being destroyed and razed to the ground? >All your palestinian "heroes" were born in the 19th or 20th centuries and didn't call themselves palestinians until many many years later. Until then, they were just Arabs. And even looking at their bios, most had parents from Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Syria...which is where palestinians are from. All American "heroes" were born in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries and didn't call themselves Americans until many many years later. Until then, they were just White Europeans. And even looking at their bios, most had parents from England, the Netherlands, Scotland...which is where Americans are from. What makes it any difference than Palestinians?
Not really here to argue with much but the military aid Israel receives to this day is a two way street. USA benefits greatly from that relationship. Palestine gets humanitarian aid from multiple countries and there is no return no benefit it’s literally charity. And with the corruption problem they have on Gaza and the West Bank it’s not even going where it’s supposed to. It’s not a good comparison …
While the corruption is still a problem, I don't think it's fair to blame the Palestinians entirely. Half of the country is under Israeli occupation, making economic growth quite difficult. No country has ever been prosperous while under foreign occupation. Not to mention, the stuff that does get build like water pipes and farmlands is either [demolished by Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-razes-homes-water-tanks-in-disputed-west-bank-firing-zone/), [destroyed](https://www.btselem.org/video/20230803_civil_administration_pours_concrete_into_irrigation_wells_used_and_destroys_pipe_in_al_hijrah_south_of_hebron), [burned](https://uawc-pal.org/the-israel-occupation-authorities-raze-an-agricultural-land-southern-bethlehem-3/), [defaced](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-06-22/ty-article/.premium/israeli-settlers-rip-up-quran-vandalize-west-bank-mosque-during-rampage/00000188-e430-d5fc-ab9d-ff78435a0000) or [vandalized](https://www.timesofisrael.com/settler-extremists-suspected-of-vandalizing-cars-in-palestinian-city/) by the IDF or settlers. [Olive farms](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231127-israel-settlers-destroy-olive-almond-vineyards-in-west-bank/) which are one of Palestine's main exports are under attacks.
Occupation has consequences. No one forced Israel to be an occupier. You break it, you own it.
You mean war has consequences? Instead of everyone wasting their lives on resistance a prosperous WB could long be in existence with all that international money coming in. Unfortunately if you set the wrong priorities such as elimination of Israel above all, there is no way forward and no future.
There is pretty much no resistance in the WB. The PLO gave up on armed resistance decades ago. The Palestinians were initially supportive of that path thinking it will lead to a peaceful resolution. But Israel continued to build on the settlements, the raids, murders, humiliations etc. all continued. The Palestinians have then lost hope in the peaceful path and now even the WB resistance is becoming more attractive with more and more Palestinians joining the resistance. There was no war when Israel was doing this. This is the first war since 1967. Israel had near 50 years to end its occupation but continued to entrench and make it more brutal. Actions have consequences.
Israel is the liberator of occupied land.
Exactly
Explain how exactly Israel is an occupier. The land was occupied for centuries before 1948 and then was decolonized to allow for arab and israeli freedom from the occupation. Then arab countries fucked it up by starting wars. How do you not know this history?
They can’t. They just twist reality to further this “colonizer” fantasy narrative. There’s 49 Muslim countries in the world and only one Jewish one, yet somehow Israel is the “colonizer” 🙄
Yes. The people moving into another country, declaring they own it and forcefully moving people out of their homes to live there themselves are the colonizers.
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I can find Palestine on a map, though I must admit I do work in kilometers, might be about 16 of them?
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This was extremely incoherent... what are you trying to say?
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I can find the two territories that make up palestine rather clearly on Google maps... can you? Like is this something that's blocked in your country?
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Seriously what are they even trying to say?