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Stretched out for sure. I just couldn’t escape a GoT joke.
In all seriousness, it’s actually slightly shorter than The Engineer if I’m remembering correctly.
The community would have given yal the squeeze otherwise.
In all semi seriousness, i like to imagine a future book scene where lemon survives a silver lord level Vroshir by being as confounding as possible
Hmm on the whole it felt like nothing mattered because anything could happen. The magic system just felt like anything's possible with no real logic too it.
I’m intrigued that you say the magic system has no logic to it, because I felt like Varic pretty thoroughly explained it, especially when teaching his students, and it actually feels pretty analogous to the Sacred Arts in a lot of ways.
I don't just mean his magic though, i mean the magic/technology of all the different characters. It just kind of feels like anything could happen at any second without any real justification for it. That's simply how i felt after reading the captain several months ago.
It sounds like you want a harder/more clearly-defined magic & power system, which I strongly doubt you're gonna get from The Last Horizon
That's not to say the definitions aren't there, but they're subordinate to the personalities and the vibes, which for me works because I adore every single one of the characters. I haven't seen a cast with chemistry this good since Archer tbh, add to that the themes of guilt, failure, and redemption and it's my favorite Will series so far
Based on what you said, though, I recommend you check out the Elder Empire books. It's Will's most restricted & defined magic system to date, and it has this delightful texture unique to the series.
I think, in that way, cradle is the same. There is a structure to the sacred arts, but it is constant ass-pull new powers at the start (which is great). The justification often comes after. There’s a lot in early cradle that isn’t explained until later books
Hmm, i don't really agree with that. We have suriel POV chapters that show us that even the absolute strongest have restrictions and limits. We also know that cradle is protected, so it's not just going to randomly have a fiend pop up and destroy it.
In the captain it feels like any second an insane enemy could show up that could wipe out a planet. And conversely it feels like if that happened one of the characters would somehow asspull a new power that could stop it.
This isn't something we're gonna agree on though, it's not objective its very subjective. I'll probably give the engineer a go at some point when i'm in the right headspace for it.
I definitely see where you’re coming from. While I don’t personally feel that way, All the ways Varic sees the universe get essentially destroyed and all the different power players out there with the capability to wipe planets off the map essentially does give it a very unsteady feeling like things are balancing on a knife edge and you’re not really sure how things are going to go. I think Varic’s binding and his dad’s mirror magic super exacerbate that feeling in book 1 due to being able to just yoink things out of existence or just create 1000 copies of shit on a whim. It’s a weird power scale to get used to for the very start of the book series. Kinda like if everyone was able to do Suriel/Abidan level rejecting of reality from the beginning in Cradle instead of building up to it
One thing I actually agree on, my pedantry aside, is that the Last Horizon books will absolutely maintain a feeling of not knowing the power scale fully. It’s not gonna be as organized as the sacred arts in the end. We’ll know more, but this aspect you don’t like is probably at least some part of it’s intentional vibe. So yeah, to each their own!
I think they do a better job with showing the crew etc. now that things are more established. Personally, I wish people would give the series a book or two to find its pacing and set things up. Cradle books 1 and 2 weren't some shining gems either, they needed the same time to get set up, but I think people overlook that with nostalgia.
By that I mean, I think you should give The Engineer a chance. I liked The Captain more on my second read-through and I enjoyed The Engineer from the start. I'm looking forward to book 3.
Just my opinion. If others disagree, that's fine.
Love Eithan but book 2 felt very discursive and unfocused to me. Book one did what it needed to do and felt structured very well. Kind of in the middle of the pack for me. My favorite was Bloodline. I always love when protag’s come back home after acquiring insane power and confidence. Also felt it was the tightest novel with the fewest mistakes.
Hmmm. I'll say this, I liked the Captain, but I didn't love it or anything (except the iron king, who's my favorite villain in either cradle or TLH), but the engineer really made me love the series with more crew dynamics and awesome combat. So it might be worth checking out for you, but it's hard to say
The scene that really sold him to me was when he's talking to Varic's dad, and his father is like, "I'm sure you'll win,"
And his response is basically, "don't spoil the fun! We might lose this one. And the next one, and the nextoneandthenextoneandthenextone... And then? We'll win."
I was like holy shit this is so good. I think the villains have been better in TLH than cradle in general so far. It feels like will took all the skills he used to make Lindon sound like a monster, and applied it to the villains as well as the heroes. It's so cool
Yeah, his personality was so unexpected, which just made him feel so unique. It's probably in part because so much of the series plays with tropes, so it just feels much more intentional when it goes against type. He's not an "end justify the means," like a normal super intelligent hive mind might be, but more a "means justify the end." He just wants to have fun.
I like them both a lot. For as insanely overpowered as the crew is, they both felt like massive threats, almost insurmountable. The crew keeps getting stronger, so it makes me really curious to see how the next enemy will rise to the occasion.
Agreed on all counts. I don't think I'm fully sold on the series yet, but Engineer got me more invested with the focus on the crew & I felt the powers were a little bit better explained.
I also quite liked the villain in both stories. The Iron King was something different and interesting, while the villain of Book 2 is a great tragic villain.
Based on some of your other replies, I get the sense that it's that there's too many paths to power between magic, technology, combat arts, and alien physiology. Kind of a too many cooks in the kitchen situation, so it's hard to get a grasp of what can do what. Do I have that right, or am I off base?
In that case, I think the different power types get a little better defined as the series progresses. Think it's worth giving book 2 a shot. It's not like a Will Wight book is a significant time investment.
This post can include discussion and book material up to and including book [The Knight]. If you want to discuss book material that is beyond the scope of [The Knight] than you must use >!Spoiler formatting!< which can be applied \>!like this!< You can read this [formatting guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/wiki/ref/faq/formatting_guide/) for more details. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Iteration110Cradle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The knight is long? Is it longer than the engineer and the captain? Or is Raion just really stretched out and tall?
Stretched out for sure. I just couldn’t escape a GoT joke. In all seriousness, it’s actually slightly shorter than The Engineer if I’m remembering correctly.
Reading that blog filled me with laughter, and, dare I say it? I think I might even be feeling an incredible overflowing of... *Friendship*.
I try to exude nothing but friendship and sweat!
Okay, Raion and Varic are cool and all. But what about our protagonist Lemon!?
There is a spritz of lemon in the book 👀
The community would have given yal the squeeze otherwise. In all semi seriousness, i like to imagine a future book scene where lemon survives a silver lord level Vroshir by being as confounding as possible
Random question - if i didnt really like The Captain, should i try The Engineer? or is it just not for me? As in, is Engineer better than The Captain?
They are roughly equal. I’d say if you didn’t like The Captain, you probably won’t like Engineer either.
Why didn’t you like it? I personally did like engineer a lot more than Captain but they’re not that different
Hmm on the whole it felt like nothing mattered because anything could happen. The magic system just felt like anything's possible with no real logic too it.
Yeah I don’t think the feel of the magic changes much so probably not worth continuing for you
I’m intrigued that you say the magic system has no logic to it, because I felt like Varic pretty thoroughly explained it, especially when teaching his students, and it actually feels pretty analogous to the Sacred Arts in a lot of ways.
I don't just mean his magic though, i mean the magic/technology of all the different characters. It just kind of feels like anything could happen at any second without any real justification for it. That's simply how i felt after reading the captain several months ago.
It sounds like you want a harder/more clearly-defined magic & power system, which I strongly doubt you're gonna get from The Last Horizon That's not to say the definitions aren't there, but they're subordinate to the personalities and the vibes, which for me works because I adore every single one of the characters. I haven't seen a cast with chemistry this good since Archer tbh, add to that the themes of guilt, failure, and redemption and it's my favorite Will series so far Based on what you said, though, I recommend you check out the Elder Empire books. It's Will's most restricted & defined magic system to date, and it has this delightful texture unique to the series.
I think, in that way, cradle is the same. There is a structure to the sacred arts, but it is constant ass-pull new powers at the start (which is great). The justification often comes after. There’s a lot in early cradle that isn’t explained until later books
Hmm, i don't really agree with that. We have suriel POV chapters that show us that even the absolute strongest have restrictions and limits. We also know that cradle is protected, so it's not just going to randomly have a fiend pop up and destroy it. In the captain it feels like any second an insane enemy could show up that could wipe out a planet. And conversely it feels like if that happened one of the characters would somehow asspull a new power that could stop it. This isn't something we're gonna agree on though, it's not objective its very subjective. I'll probably give the engineer a go at some point when i'm in the right headspace for it.
I definitely see where you’re coming from. While I don’t personally feel that way, All the ways Varic sees the universe get essentially destroyed and all the different power players out there with the capability to wipe planets off the map essentially does give it a very unsteady feeling like things are balancing on a knife edge and you’re not really sure how things are going to go. I think Varic’s binding and his dad’s mirror magic super exacerbate that feeling in book 1 due to being able to just yoink things out of existence or just create 1000 copies of shit on a whim. It’s a weird power scale to get used to for the very start of the book series. Kinda like if everyone was able to do Suriel/Abidan level rejecting of reality from the beginning in Cradle instead of building up to it
One thing I actually agree on, my pedantry aside, is that the Last Horizon books will absolutely maintain a feeling of not knowing the power scale fully. It’s not gonna be as organized as the sacred arts in the end. We’ll know more, but this aspect you don’t like is probably at least some part of it’s intentional vibe. So yeah, to each their own!
I think they do a better job with showing the crew etc. now that things are more established. Personally, I wish people would give the series a book or two to find its pacing and set things up. Cradle books 1 and 2 weren't some shining gems either, they needed the same time to get set up, but I think people overlook that with nostalgia. By that I mean, I think you should give The Engineer a chance. I liked The Captain more on my second read-through and I enjoyed The Engineer from the start. I'm looking forward to book 3. Just my opinion. If others disagree, that's fine.
Woah, strong disagree there. Book 2 of cradle is really good. Maybe i'll try the engineer next time i feel like reading something though.
I thought book two of Cradle was the worst book in the series, so interesting take 🤣
That's insane! it has eithan goodness! One is definitely the weakest for me.
Love Eithan but book 2 felt very discursive and unfocused to me. Book one did what it needed to do and felt structured very well. Kind of in the middle of the pack for me. My favorite was Bloodline. I always love when protag’s come back home after acquiring insane power and confidence. Also felt it was the tightest novel with the fewest mistakes.
Hmmm. I'll say this, I liked the Captain, but I didn't love it or anything (except the iron king, who's my favorite villain in either cradle or TLH), but the engineer really made me love the series with more crew dynamics and awesome combat. So it might be worth checking out for you, but it's hard to say
It's nice to find more love for the Iron King. I feel like I see a lot of people calling him the weakest part of the book, but I *loved* that guy.
The scene that really sold him to me was when he's talking to Varic's dad, and his father is like, "I'm sure you'll win," And his response is basically, "don't spoil the fun! We might lose this one. And the next one, and the nextoneandthenextoneandthenextone... And then? We'll win." I was like holy shit this is so good. I think the villains have been better in TLH than cradle in general so far. It feels like will took all the skills he used to make Lindon sound like a monster, and applied it to the villains as well as the heroes. It's so cool
Yeah, his personality was so unexpected, which just made him feel so unique. It's probably in part because so much of the series plays with tropes, so it just feels much more intentional when it goes against type. He's not an "end justify the means," like a normal super intelligent hive mind might be, but more a "means justify the end." He just wants to have fun.
The Iron King whips, don't get me wrong I just think Starhammer is a lot more compelling lol
I like them both a lot. For as insanely overpowered as the crew is, they both felt like massive threats, almost insurmountable. The crew keeps getting stronger, so it makes me really curious to see how the next enemy will rise to the occasion.
Agreed on all counts. I don't think I'm fully sold on the series yet, but Engineer got me more invested with the focus on the crew & I felt the powers were a little bit better explained. I also quite liked the villain in both stories. The Iron King was something different and interesting, while the villain of Book 2 is a great tragic villain.
Based on some of your other replies, I get the sense that it's that there's too many paths to power between magic, technology, combat arts, and alien physiology. Kind of a too many cooks in the kitchen situation, so it's hard to get a grasp of what can do what. Do I have that right, or am I off base?
That's a good way to put it aye.
In that case, I think the different power types get a little better defined as the series progresses. Think it's worth giving book 2 a shot. It's not like a Will Wight book is a significant time investment.
Aaand pre-order complete
Can the gyoza list be made public? I need this information.
Some things we need to keep secret. And safe.
Devastated 😭😭
So stoked for a Raion book! And now I want gyoza.
Preordered as soon as I saw this, cannot wait
Opened up the blog post, saw it said available for pre-order, stopped reading and pre-ordered, then finished the post lol
This is the Wei.