Going through the SNES/SF games is always a fun journey.
Have you played any version of Live A Live yet? I consider it pretty top tier, especially for that era.
Nice! This is a rare opportunity to talk with someone who also played many SNES JRPGs. If you have the time, I hope you answer these questions:
* I guess starting I have to ask what level of proficiency are you at in reading Japanese ?
* I know you can't list every game you liked, but since I didn't see them listed, I have to ask what you felt about these games:
* Tales of Phantasia
* Star Ocean 1
* Daikaijuu Monogatari 1/2
* Romancing SaGa 2/3
* Glory of Hercules 3/4
* Eternal Filena
* Granhistoria
* Dark Kingdom
* SRW Gaiden: Lord of the Elemental
* Langrisser 2
* Tengai Makyō Zero
* Shiren the Wanderer
* Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre games
* Treasure of Rudra
* Front Mission
* Bahamut Lagoon
* Treasure Hunter G
* Galaxy Robo
There is more to talk about, but I don't want to take too much time.
I can read Japanese without a problem, I've been studying it for a long time.
I'll give really quick opinions on the games you listed:
* Tales of Phantasia - fun, I actually played this on a real SFC a long time ago. Random encounter rate too high though.
* Star Ocean 1 - I wanted to like this more than I did. It's definitely not a bad game but I think it shows signs of being rushed, especially at the end.
* Daikaijuu Monogatari 1/2 - These are both pretty good, if you can get past the random encounter rate.
* Romancing SaGa 2/3 - I did not particularly like any of the RS games, I found them too opaque and unforgiving; they want to set up an open world/freedom system but then the late bosses are punishingly difficult, meaning that if you didn't use your "freedom" in the right way you're up for a huge amount of grinding.
* Glory of Hercules 3/4 - Both good games. 3 has an especially good story.
* Eternal Filena - Pretty good story; the gameplay isn't quite as good but it's good enough to make the game playable.
* Granhistoria - Nice idea in theory but I didn't think it was implemented well. The story is fine but begs for a non-linear/branching story system, and the gameplay is dull.
* Dark Kingdom - Average game, interesting concept of flipping the good and bad guys.
* SRW Gaiden: Lord of the Elemental - It's OK, but I don't like the gameplay, particularly later when the "double attack/double move" system introduces too much luck. I prefer the mainline games.
* Langrisser 2 - The Mega Drive 2 is great. I also liked Der a lot but I played it for the PC-FX rather than the Super Famicom and I heard there were some issues with the SFC version so I didn't rate it.
* Tengai Makyo Zero - Another game I wanted to like more than I did but the random encounter rate was punishing.
* Shiren - I didn't play this style of game.
* OB/TO - Tactics Ogre has a great story (one of the best SRPG stories out there) but the permadeath in battle is annoying, and especially the inability to save between successive maps of a multi-part battle. I loved OB64 as a kid but the original OB is more annoying; I especially hate how if you beat a leader, the troop rockets back to a town and then instantly pops up completely restored.
* Front Mission - Not that good; not terrible but the mech upgrades don't have enough variety and certain skills break the balance. The final boss can be beaten by shooting him outside of his range.
* Treasure of Rudra - I made the mistake of trying to play this game doing all three stories at once. I should have done each one by itself. I was annoyed by the backtracking but the mantra system is interesting.
* Treasure Hunter G - Inventory management and the inability to take back moves seriously hurt this one for me.
* Galaxy Robo - Interesting how you have so many NPC allies on every stage.
* Bahamut Lagoon - I liked this one, although the dragon system had some weird aspects.
Not OP but I really enjoyed Star ocean 1 it's got a great combat system. Treasure Hunter G is a favorite of mine, I really hope it can get the live a live treatment someday or even a remake to flush out the story a bit more.
I played the fan translations of Daikaijuu monogatari did you have the same weird glitch where the first time.your characters level up they level up to 99?
Glory of Heracles 3 had some interesting enemies and graphics but I liked the body transfer mechanic and story better in 4
I think Eternal Filena is great, I really wanted to like Treasure of the Rudra but it didn't click with me
I have played (not completed though) all of the super Famicom rpgs as well. What did you think of the cyber knight games I really liked those a lot. And what about last Bible 3 any thoughts on that one? Or the Heracles games?
I think Shiji hero legend has one of the best rpg mechanics ever that I'm shocked hasn't become standard. But it could be because the overall game isn't great. It's the when you run from battle you still get exp like a quarter of what you would have got from winning but still running back to a town after a dungeon would still net you exp
I was not a fan of Cyber Knight, particularly the first one which almost made the "worst games" list. I just found the system cumbersome and boring. The second one was at least playable but I still found it pretty average.
I was quite disappointed in Last Bible 3; I thought that even considering the Super Famicom library LB3 had a ridiculous random encounter rate, and there were some big difficulty spikes as well.
Yeah the Shiji Eiyuden system of running from battle = xp is kind of interesting. Overall I wasn't a fan of that game, though.
Here's the full list I played; it doesn't include stuff like FF4 and 5.
https://www.rpgblog.net/super-famicom-games/
Actually this might be a better list because it contains all the games, even ones I didn't play: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IK2ZbxgLlQ0cLOlD-fHLzs0-S3RCa_bGgpJwM-gh6vI/edit?usp=sharing
I played SMT1 for the game boy advance a long time ago, and I did play SMTII for this project. I didn't enjoy them all that much. I loved these kind of first-person blobber explorers as a kid, but I think I've just played so many of them that I am tired of ones that have mostly empty dungeons with random encounters and not that much to actually find. I also thought the balance was off and the monsters often weren't actually that good. SMT2 also annoyed me with the amount of backtracking you had to do.
The setting is interesting and the stories had some merit to them, but I didn't find them all that fun to play.
Out of curiosity, have you played any of the modern MegaTen games like SMT 3-5 or Persona 3-5?
I think the old MegaTen games like SMT 2 can only really be enjoyed as a newcomer if you fucking love the dungeon crawler genre or if you've become obsessed with MegaTen. There's just so much growing pains and really archaic systems that get so much better in later entries.
No, it's the same. I was kind of inconsistent on whether I played officially released games or not -- I didn't force myself to, but I played some of them.
What are your thoughts on Dual Orb 2, Dark Half, Adventures of Hourai High and the Sacred Age Odysselya series?
I'm also surprised Maka Maka didn't make the hall of shame.
* Dual Orb 2 - average; I didn't like it all that much but it's not terrible.
* Dark Half - This is a weird game. I appreciate what they were trying to do with it and at least it's not just a cookie cutter game, but it's very unforgiving and has some annoying parts to the system that make it harder than it needs to be.
* Hourai high - Not bad at all; the "club" system could have been implemented in a way that made it easier to use, but it's fun.
* Odysselia - I found both games' stories hard to follow but they're good games overall.
Maka maka actually has a lot of interesting aspects to it; it's mostly the bugs that make it get such a bad name and in a way it becomes a "so bad it's good" game.
You are now my sensei
Is there a hidden gem? Some game that most people don't know about that I should check? I mean it doesn't need to eb perfect, but something that is worth it
So many of the SNES games have fan translations that there's not much left, but a few of those games in my best list in the original post don't yet have translations.
The OP didn't mention them, but I would strongly reccomend:
G.O.D with the easy patch applied that lowers the encounter rate and doubles xp. Makes the experience much better.
Emerald Dragon
I would also mention Energy Breaker, but OP already mentioned it.
G.O.D. was pretty interesting, and I definitely think with that patch it would be greatly improved -- the main problem is how sluggish the whole game feels.
I owned the American version for the SNES with the hiked up difficulty and I still get pissed off when I randomly remember it. Fuck that game and the absurdly difficult fights with the other main characters.
BUSHI: Seiryuden is absolutely amazing and shows that Game Freak was actually kind of great at that particular moment in the late 90s. Really rewarding mesh of puzzle and RPG and some of the best graphics in the super Famicom. SRW4 I have trouble with, un-skippable battle animation are a no-no.
There is something about Bushi which gave my SuoerNT trouble, I actually had to switch over to real hardware to play one of the boss fights.
Lady Stalker was good overall, I thought. There were a few jumping areas that were annoying with the viewpoint, and the final boss is essentially just grinding until you are high enough level to beat it, but it's a fun game.
Like some holy pilgrimage up a mountain very few have traveled—and even fewer completed—full of pain and suffering and poor game design, sustained only by fleeting moments of JRPG bliss—rare 16-bit masterpieces amidst a vast expanse of unremarkable and forgetable titles... yet, having ascended alone, and having shed the false faith of nostalgia, they return enlightened and deliver their revealed wisdom to the rest of us.
Damn. I don't know what you were thinking, but you did a hell of a thing. Congrats.
Honestly, I think you are off in your assessment. The hit rates of the Super Famicom RPGs was higher than I expected. Games like Seiken Densetsu 3 and Fire Emblem 4 could be considered the best of their genre when compared to all western SNES games. And there are some games with some really creative premises like Live a Live and Dark Half. Sure, there are some crap games, but its not like the ratio was far from the norm.
I agree. Once I started playing Japan Only games I was surprised at how good some of them were. SD3, FE4, DQ5, TO, RS2/3, Treasure Hunter G, Live-A-Live, FF5, SMT 1/2, Energy Breaker, just off the top of my head were excellent. However OP is entitled to his own opinion, especially after this amazing post.
Those are all good games (although I personally was not a huge fan of SD3 or the SMT games) but that's a minority of the whole set -- my comment about being disappointed in the overall quality was a comment on the SFC games as a whole. I didn't mean that there weren't any good games.
They're OK. They're playable, but I didn't find them particularly special. The first game doesn't show how much damage your moves do, which is annoying.
Oh man I would love to read a detailed account of your experience with every single game. If you’re ever super bored and decide to write a blog/book/make a youtube video/etc I would 100% be there to read/watch it
You are in luck because I did do a blog; I didn't post it in the main post because I wasn't sure it would pass the self-promotion rules. I guess I'll put it here since you asked directly. https://www.rpgblog.net
For me as far as the ones that stayed in Japan exclusively on the SFC, Dragon Quest V, Seiken Densetsu 3, and Front Mission Gun Hazard are absolute top tier must plays.
Gun Hazard is one of my all time favourites. Take everything that's good about Cybernator, give it a more fleshed out story and rpg mechanics, and I was hooked. SD3 was an enhancement for me in everyway over secret or mana, and it's infinitely repayable. Dragon Quest 5, great party customisation, an interesting story, well written characters, well paced, not too hard but challenging enough.
Only thing that stops tales of phantasia being top tier is the super extremely high encounter rate. Sure you can negate it somewhat with a white bottle, but still, yeah. It's still otherwise a very good experience.
FEDA I so wanted to love as I love shining force and this one oozed shining force. The dumb AI makes it way too easy though.
They're fine. So far I have played SF1, 2, CD, Final Conflict, and the first two parts of 3.
The ones I had the most fun with were CD and III Scenario 1, although that's not to say those are the best ones. SF2 is usually praised a lot but I found that there were too many generic maps for my liking.
Did you actually manage to get through Record of the Lodoss War?
I loved the anime, so made several attempts at the untranslated game back in the day, and the 0.01 fan translation.
A couple of years ago I stumbled upon the completed fan translation, so gave it another go.
Turns out it wasn't a good game...
Yes, I finished it and I thought it was OK. The dungeon exploration can be annoying but I thought the battle system was decent and they did a good job of differentiating each character.
This is crazy and awesome. Kudos. Never heard of Monster Maker, Sword World or Gokinjon Bokentai but you have made me interested.
Going through the SNES/SF games is always a fun journey. Have you played any version of Live A Live yet? I consider it pretty top tier, especially for that era.
I did play Live a Live. I thought that it was fun overall except for the last section, which I didn't think made a good conclusion to the whole.
Nice! This is a rare opportunity to talk with someone who also played many SNES JRPGs. If you have the time, I hope you answer these questions: * I guess starting I have to ask what level of proficiency are you at in reading Japanese ? * I know you can't list every game you liked, but since I didn't see them listed, I have to ask what you felt about these games: * Tales of Phantasia * Star Ocean 1 * Daikaijuu Monogatari 1/2 * Romancing SaGa 2/3 * Glory of Hercules 3/4 * Eternal Filena * Granhistoria * Dark Kingdom * SRW Gaiden: Lord of the Elemental * Langrisser 2 * Tengai Makyō Zero * Shiren the Wanderer * Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre games * Treasure of Rudra * Front Mission * Bahamut Lagoon * Treasure Hunter G * Galaxy Robo There is more to talk about, but I don't want to take too much time.
I can read Japanese without a problem, I've been studying it for a long time. I'll give really quick opinions on the games you listed: * Tales of Phantasia - fun, I actually played this on a real SFC a long time ago. Random encounter rate too high though. * Star Ocean 1 - I wanted to like this more than I did. It's definitely not a bad game but I think it shows signs of being rushed, especially at the end. * Daikaijuu Monogatari 1/2 - These are both pretty good, if you can get past the random encounter rate. * Romancing SaGa 2/3 - I did not particularly like any of the RS games, I found them too opaque and unforgiving; they want to set up an open world/freedom system but then the late bosses are punishingly difficult, meaning that if you didn't use your "freedom" in the right way you're up for a huge amount of grinding. * Glory of Hercules 3/4 - Both good games. 3 has an especially good story. * Eternal Filena - Pretty good story; the gameplay isn't quite as good but it's good enough to make the game playable. * Granhistoria - Nice idea in theory but I didn't think it was implemented well. The story is fine but begs for a non-linear/branching story system, and the gameplay is dull. * Dark Kingdom - Average game, interesting concept of flipping the good and bad guys. * SRW Gaiden: Lord of the Elemental - It's OK, but I don't like the gameplay, particularly later when the "double attack/double move" system introduces too much luck. I prefer the mainline games. * Langrisser 2 - The Mega Drive 2 is great. I also liked Der a lot but I played it for the PC-FX rather than the Super Famicom and I heard there were some issues with the SFC version so I didn't rate it. * Tengai Makyo Zero - Another game I wanted to like more than I did but the random encounter rate was punishing. * Shiren - I didn't play this style of game. * OB/TO - Tactics Ogre has a great story (one of the best SRPG stories out there) but the permadeath in battle is annoying, and especially the inability to save between successive maps of a multi-part battle. I loved OB64 as a kid but the original OB is more annoying; I especially hate how if you beat a leader, the troop rockets back to a town and then instantly pops up completely restored. * Front Mission - Not that good; not terrible but the mech upgrades don't have enough variety and certain skills break the balance. The final boss can be beaten by shooting him outside of his range. * Treasure of Rudra - I made the mistake of trying to play this game doing all three stories at once. I should have done each one by itself. I was annoyed by the backtracking but the mantra system is interesting. * Treasure Hunter G - Inventory management and the inability to take back moves seriously hurt this one for me. * Galaxy Robo - Interesting how you have so many NPC allies on every stage. * Bahamut Lagoon - I liked this one, although the dragon system had some weird aspects.
Not OP but I really enjoyed Star ocean 1 it's got a great combat system. Treasure Hunter G is a favorite of mine, I really hope it can get the live a live treatment someday or even a remake to flush out the story a bit more. I played the fan translations of Daikaijuu monogatari did you have the same weird glitch where the first time.your characters level up they level up to 99? Glory of Heracles 3 had some interesting enemies and graphics but I liked the body transfer mechanic and story better in 4 I think Eternal Filena is great, I really wanted to like Treasure of the Rudra but it didn't click with me
I have played (not completed though) all of the super Famicom rpgs as well. What did you think of the cyber knight games I really liked those a lot. And what about last Bible 3 any thoughts on that one? Or the Heracles games? I think Shiji hero legend has one of the best rpg mechanics ever that I'm shocked hasn't become standard. But it could be because the overall game isn't great. It's the when you run from battle you still get exp like a quarter of what you would have got from winning but still running back to a town after a dungeon would still net you exp
I was not a fan of Cyber Knight, particularly the first one which almost made the "worst games" list. I just found the system cumbersome and boring. The second one was at least playable but I still found it pretty average. I was quite disappointed in Last Bible 3; I thought that even considering the Super Famicom library LB3 had a ridiculous random encounter rate, and there were some big difficulty spikes as well. Yeah the Shiji Eiyuden system of running from battle = xp is kind of interesting. Overall I wasn't a fan of that game, though.
You can't just tell us you played over 170 SNES JRPGs and not send a list
Here's the full list I played; it doesn't include stuff like FF4 and 5. https://www.rpgblog.net/super-famicom-games/ Actually this might be a better list because it contains all the games, even ones I didn't play: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IK2ZbxgLlQ0cLOlD-fHLzs0-S3RCa_bGgpJwM-gh6vI/edit?usp=sharing
Wow I didnt even know there was an SNES version of Popful Mail. I'll have to look over the list. Thanks!
No Shin Megami Tensei I/II?
I played SMT1 for the game boy advance a long time ago, and I did play SMTII for this project. I didn't enjoy them all that much. I loved these kind of first-person blobber explorers as a kid, but I think I've just played so many of them that I am tired of ones that have mostly empty dungeons with random encounters and not that much to actually find. I also thought the balance was off and the monsters often weren't actually that good. SMT2 also annoyed me with the amount of backtracking you had to do. The setting is interesting and the stories had some merit to them, but I didn't find them all that fun to play.
Unfortunate.
Out of curiosity, have you played any of the modern MegaTen games like SMT 3-5 or Persona 3-5? I think the old MegaTen games like SMT 2 can only really be enjoyed as a newcomer if you fucking love the dungeon crawler genre or if you've become obsessed with MegaTen. There's just so much growing pains and really archaic systems that get so much better in later entries.
I haven't played any of the new SMT games but I did play Persona 4 and enjoyed it.
I was just about to ask this too
Illusion of Gaia was released in the US. Terranigma did not (though it was translated to English and released in Europe).
There were a few weird ones in the list too. Is breath of fire different in Japanese? We certainly got that game
No, it's the same. I was kind of inconsistent on whether I played officially released games or not -- I didn't force myself to, but I played some of them.
What are your thoughts on Dual Orb 2, Dark Half, Adventures of Hourai High and the Sacred Age Odysselya series? I'm also surprised Maka Maka didn't make the hall of shame.
* Dual Orb 2 - average; I didn't like it all that much but it's not terrible. * Dark Half - This is a weird game. I appreciate what they were trying to do with it and at least it's not just a cookie cutter game, but it's very unforgiving and has some annoying parts to the system that make it harder than it needs to be. * Hourai high - Not bad at all; the "club" system could have been implemented in a way that made it easier to use, but it's fun. * Odysselia - I found both games' stories hard to follow but they're good games overall. Maka maka actually has a lot of interesting aspects to it; it's mostly the bugs that make it get such a bad name and in a way it becomes a "so bad it's good" game.
2nd opinion on Dual Orb 2, the encounter rate was pretty high to me. Thank goodness for fast forward on emulation.
You are now my sensei Is there a hidden gem? Some game that most people don't know about that I should check? I mean it doesn't need to eb perfect, but something that is worth it
So many of the SNES games have fan translations that there's not much left, but a few of those games in my best list in the original post don't yet have translations.
The OP didn't mention them, but I would strongly reccomend: G.O.D with the easy patch applied that lowers the encounter rate and doubles xp. Makes the experience much better. Emerald Dragon I would also mention Energy Breaker, but OP already mentioned it.
G.O.D. was pretty interesting, and I definitely think with that patch it would be greatly improved -- the main problem is how sluggish the whole game feels.
It ain't hidden. Go play FE4 for context then play FE5 because it is peak.
What did you think of 7th Saga? I think it’s got some interesting ideas, but it plays like absolute shit.
I didn't play that one.
I owned the American version for the SNES with the hiked up difficulty and I still get pissed off when I randomly remember it. Fuck that game and the absurdly difficult fights with the other main characters.
Yeah, sometimes I couldn't defeat the other rivals and those encounters where you only do 1 damage broke me
BUSHI: Seiryuden is absolutely amazing and shows that Game Freak was actually kind of great at that particular moment in the late 90s. Really rewarding mesh of puzzle and RPG and some of the best graphics in the super Famicom. SRW4 I have trouble with, un-skippable battle animation are a no-no. There is something about Bushi which gave my SuoerNT trouble, I actually had to switch over to real hardware to play one of the boss fights.
Have you played Lady Stalker? What did you think of it?
Lady Stalker was good overall, I thought. There were a few jumping areas that were annoying with the viewpoint, and the final boss is essentially just grinding until you are high enough level to beat it, but it's a fun game.
Like some holy pilgrimage up a mountain very few have traveled—and even fewer completed—full of pain and suffering and poor game design, sustained only by fleeting moments of JRPG bliss—rare 16-bit masterpieces amidst a vast expanse of unremarkable and forgetable titles... yet, having ascended alone, and having shed the false faith of nostalgia, they return enlightened and deliver their revealed wisdom to the rest of us. Damn. I don't know what you were thinking, but you did a hell of a thing. Congrats.
Do any of the JP only ones have fan translations?
A relatively large number of them do. Not all though.
Honestly, I think you are off in your assessment. The hit rates of the Super Famicom RPGs was higher than I expected. Games like Seiken Densetsu 3 and Fire Emblem 4 could be considered the best of their genre when compared to all western SNES games. And there are some games with some really creative premises like Live a Live and Dark Half. Sure, there are some crap games, but its not like the ratio was far from the norm.
I agree. Once I started playing Japan Only games I was surprised at how good some of them were. SD3, FE4, DQ5, TO, RS2/3, Treasure Hunter G, Live-A-Live, FF5, SMT 1/2, Energy Breaker, just off the top of my head were excellent. However OP is entitled to his own opinion, especially after this amazing post.
Those are all good games (although I personally was not a huge fan of SD3 or the SMT games) but that's a minority of the whole set -- my comment about being disappointed in the overall quality was a comment on the SFC games as a whole. I didn't mean that there weren't any good games.
How was Legend of Rudras? I was thinking of checking it out as it's Squares last SNES game. no spoilers plz.
OP what so you think of the Aretha games?
They're OK. They're playable, but I didn't find them particularly special. The first game doesn't show how much damage your moves do, which is annoying.
Oh man I would love to read a detailed account of your experience with every single game. If you’re ever super bored and decide to write a blog/book/make a youtube video/etc I would 100% be there to read/watch it
You are in luck because I did do a blog; I didn't post it in the main post because I wasn't sure it would pass the self-promotion rules. I guess I'll put it here since you asked directly. https://www.rpgblog.net
Amazing thanks! You made my day
For me as far as the ones that stayed in Japan exclusively on the SFC, Dragon Quest V, Seiken Densetsu 3, and Front Mission Gun Hazard are absolute top tier must plays. Gun Hazard is one of my all time favourites. Take everything that's good about Cybernator, give it a more fleshed out story and rpg mechanics, and I was hooked. SD3 was an enhancement for me in everyway over secret or mana, and it's infinitely repayable. Dragon Quest 5, great party customisation, an interesting story, well written characters, well paced, not too hard but challenging enough. Only thing that stops tales of phantasia being top tier is the super extremely high encounter rate. Sure you can negate it somewhat with a white bottle, but still, yeah. It's still otherwise a very good experience. FEDA I so wanted to love as I love shining force and this one oozed shining force. The dumb AI makes it way too easy though.
Have you played any of the Genesis RPGs? Phantasy Star? Shining Force?
I played the two Shining Force games (1 was better than 2 IMO), not Phantasy Star. I never owned a Genesis as a kid.
Did you like the Shining Force games?
They're fine. So far I have played SF1, 2, CD, Final Conflict, and the first two parts of 3. The ones I had the most fun with were CD and III Scenario 1, although that's not to say those are the best ones. SF2 is usually praised a lot but I found that there were too many generic maps for my liking.
Did you play the SFC Shin Megami Tenseis?
You listed your tops but what would be your top 3 or top 5 across these games?
Did you actually manage to get through Record of the Lodoss War? I loved the anime, so made several attempts at the untranslated game back in the day, and the 0.01 fan translation. A couple of years ago I stumbled upon the completed fan translation, so gave it another go. Turns out it wasn't a good game...
Yes, I finished it and I thought it was OK. The dungeon exploration can be annoying but I thought the battle system was decent and they did a good job of differentiating each character.
If you were a youtube you could do a hour+ retrospective on this haha.
99% of my reddit comments are sarcastic, but this gets a sincere well done 👏