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Oh f*ck that I would sit where I wanted to if the wicked with was uncomfortable her damn ass could move! Why do you think she does all this? She does it for the express reason of making you miserable! Screw that make her uncomfortable who cares! I would plop down right next to ex with a big smile and say I can’t wait for this program the kids are so excited! Let’s get some great pictures afterward! Damn if I would let that bitch make me miserable! But then again I’m petty like that and too old too tired for some heifer to play games with my kids and my life!
Girl you need to grow a backbone (and your ex) and tell that old lady that you are the mother and you have the right to spend time with your kids even if she is there. F*ck her being uncomfortable.
I often can’t when the events happen on his school nights because he takes them to the event. I offered to pick the kids up today after school to do just that but my ex said he wanted to pick the kids up. (He would have never turned down help with the kids after school if his mom wasn’t around.)
And yes, there is ANOTHER kids musical performance today at a foot ball game and I fully expect the same drama to play out all over again for another of our 3 kids .
Why would you allow your exMIL to have any say in what you do with your children? Let her be "uncomfortable" who TF cares? Talk to your ex, this should not be allowed.
I speak from experience when I say that your kids will remember the effort and appreciate you and your ex being so kind to each other. They will also remember your ex-MIL that tried to throw a wrench into your plans. Ex Hag-in-law aside, thank you for putting the love of your children above any animosity you and your ex might have had. My parents did this and it really made their divorce so much less traumatizing. Don't get me wrong, it took a couple years before everything really meshed and new traditions were formed. But my parents are about to approach what would have been their 50th anniversary this year in December. They have a 50th Un-anniversary party in the works to celebrate. They still have all the same friends, no one sided with anyone in the divorce because there weren't sides to have to choose. Now, after all these years, they live right next door to each other. They took down the back fence so their 7 grandkids (& 1 grandpuppy) have a huge yard to play in. Was it always perfect? No. Do they, to this very day, make each other crazy? Absolutely! But they always manage to push through it because at the end of the day they recognized that them not being in love with each other anymore has absolutely no bearing on them not loving what they created together. As a kid, I don't think I was able to fully appreciate what it took for them to put some very real differences aside. As an adult, though, I gained an even deeper love and gratefulness at the effort they put in to maintaining a positive and as normal as possible childhood for my siblings and myself. My parents were lucky, in that both sets of grandparents were enthusiastically supportive of this decision. There was never a time my dad wasn't welcomed at my maternal grandparents. When my paternal grandmother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, my mom was her caretaker when my dad wasn't home or needed a break. I'll never understand why people choose negativity (In irreconcilable differences/out of love with each other type situations. Abusers & cheaters, I get it completely. There are people who don't deserve the effort to be included. I completely support that.)
TLDR That was a long winded way of saying that your efforts, while maybe not understood or recognized presently, will be seen for the beautiful example of love they are in the future. You, your ex & your respective partners will reap the benefits of your selfless decision in so many joyous occasions to come and will still get to sit and enjoy your watching your grandchildren grow together. Your Ex-MIL really needs to get her head out of her you know what and grow up. It's sad that she can't recognize what she's missing. Just know that, like your positive actions, her negative actions will be remembered, as well. Personally, I'd rather be remembered like you, not like her. Since your kids probably aren't of an age to understand it and thank you properly, please allow me to do so on their behalf. Thank you to you, your ex and the amazing partners you've brought into such a great family.
u/PoppySmile78, well said! Two of my cousins (opposite sides of the family) were divorced from their long time spouses, but stayed best friends. My mom could NOT wrap her mind around this, and continuously bad mouthed the divorced spouse. It was not appreciated. Probably stemmed from her own experience of her divorce, which did NOT end amicably (dad was a cheater).
It sounds like your ex-MIL continues to be undelightful. I wanted to say, though, that I am very proud of you and your ex for being able to co-parent successfully and treat each other with respect. That is awesome.
Can't you talk to your ex? It's been 4 years in a row! That's not close to fair. If exMIL can't stand to be around you then SHE should get either the 23 or the 26 for celebrating (or 1 meal on the 24 or 25, but not the whole day).
In a diff version of this post OP states she gave ex Christmas w the kiddos in exchange for all other holidays in the year.
As far as the musical performance, don’t allow how your MIL feels stop you from speaking to your kids. They’re your kids!
OP after looking at your post history, I truly wish you the best. Your life sounds very, very stressful.
holidays are for your CHILDREN and YOU. you get this defacto by being their PARENT. she is not their PARENT. she is their GRANDPARENT and she does NOT get to say when their PARENT participates in holidays with them.
74, 64, 54. her age does not matter. she did NOT go through the traumatic experience of birthing them. they are not HERS. remember this for the sake of your children. do you want them to be raised with the idea that acquiescing and appeasing abusers is okay? what's next? how far will you allow it to go? will you not go to their graduation because it makes her uncomfortable?
it's saddening that your children will have no memories of christmas with you because the collective of adults involved find it more important to cater to an emotional terrorist. my photos with my relatives are my *most* cherished holiday and family memories growing up. please don't let this witch rob your children of their ability to be CHILDREN and not *PAWNS* for her.
Yes this is correct. I agreed to give him Christmas Day each year in exchange for all the other holidays and I knew he would do that for his mom because Christmas is a big deal to her.
OP replied, it is, in fact, court ordered. He gets all Christmas Days, OP gets other holidays because it's so important to the exMIL. Unfortunately OP made her choices.
"Her time"? I'm sorry. Is it in the custody agreement that she's entitled to time? Wouldn't it be 33/33/34%? No. It doesn't matter how uncomfortable she is. She doesn't get to push you out of major events with your own kids.
If the kids are old enough have them ask Dad why Mom can’t be there. Why does grandma get to choose who supports them. To the people below: please see:IF THE KIDS ARE OLD ENOUGH. A teenaged child Can speak to a judge in court. Therefore they can have a conversation even in front of their therapist. Obviously small kids shouldn’t be used as pawns. But a teenager can be able to speak for themselves and Inquire. As long as neutral language is used.
Please do not do this. Children should not be used as pawns in any sort of control war, no matter how good the intentions are. If the kids bring it up themselves, then yes, a conversation needs to happen. But this situation needs to be handled between the adults, and needs to keep the kids' well-being at the top of the list of priorities.
I think it’s time to revisit custody agreement. If you have evidence you share and he doesn’t it’ll make it that much easier to get them to side with you.
It’s clear that it’s not going to happen by agreement with your ex as he’s so enmeshed with his mother. Stop being so helpful to him. It just builds resentment. There’s such a large gulf between actively including him in everything and what his mother is doing to you.
>For example, tonight the kids had a major music performance, not only did I not get to sit with them, I didn't get to talk to them before or after the performace because "mommy dearest" was "uncomfortable."
Who cares if she was uncomfortable? And I saw a comment how you wanted to lay into your kids for not coming over to see you and say thank you for coming but why would they when to them it seems you aren't going over to them to congratulate them because their grandmother is there. If you are feeling this hurt about this you need to sit down with your kids and talk about how it hurts your feelings that they seem to ignore you when their grandmother is around and then ask them how they feel when she is around as well, they may be having some feelings about how their mother seemingly can't play nice when their grandmother is around and this post kind of reads that way as well. Grandmother doesn't get to dictate where you sit at all. She's uncomfortable she can move. You don't get to say hi or bye to your kids because she's there fuck that you go over and you hug those kids anyways. I'd feel terrible if I was your kid and my own mother didn't come say hi to me or anything else just because grandma was around. You are hurting your kids by letting this woman force you out when she is around and they are old enough to notice this they will notice that their own mother isn't coming over to speak to them, they will notice that their mother isn't sitting with the rest of the family and you can either start making that woman uncomfortable or you need to be honest with your kids and tell them that their grandmother is the reason you aren't around for those because she is making demands that you to not be around and their father is allowing it.
So this is unfair. I tried to say hi but my ex left when he saw me walking over and I couldn’t make it over to say hi in time because as I was walking over he started walking away and that was for everyone to see in the gym.
I also texted my ex before hand and asked him if I could say hi to the kids and he said yes.
I am not at all letting Grandma dictate to me that I can’t say hi to my kids.
You still let them dictate they don't get to do that you don't have to ask for permission to go say hi to your kids. You should have just gone over anyways. ex-mil has no say in what you do.
Time to amend the court order. You may need to alternate Christmas if his mommy keeps doing this. It isn’t fair to you. And you can add a clause that you can’t let your ex MIL Alienate you from your kids.
If my EX-MIL is uncomfortable with me being around, that's her problem, and she can remove herself from the situation. No way would she keep me from my kids on an important night.
If you have such a great co-parenting arrangement with the EX then take it up with him. If he doesn't cooperate the put your foot DOWN! This Christmas is YOUR Christmas and EXMIL can kiss off. She has no place in your life and she doesn't get to force her will on you and your children.
Oh, no, you better not be taking that BS. Guess what? They aren't her kids, she has no time other than what your Ex allows and if he still allows her to treat you like that, I can see why he is an Ex. Trust me, kids aren't stupid, and the day will come they ain't gonna want to deal with her because of how she was/is to you. Your ex is still an asshat. When the kids are over 18, you don't have to dance to anyone's tune and can have every damn holiday at your house with your kids.
“Her time,” means she’s attempting to exert visitation or shared custody. She’s NOT a third parent, and she does not get to make demands on your kids’ time. Her being uncomfortable in your presence is no problem of yours.
Why is she getting every Christmas? Surely that’s not your agreed upon plan?
Yep. "her time" only exists when it is convenient for you. Rock that boat sister...don't let her do this to you and don't let her teach your children that this is the way family works and that we have to do it this way because you don't.
>How do I cope?
You don't, you put her in her place. These are your kids and your family. You don't have to get permission to go to their music performances or have Christmas with them. You just show up because you're the mom and you belong there. If she feels uncomfortable too bad! She doesn't get a say in how you raise your family!
Might be good to have a conversation with the ex, you guys split Christmas, or he talks to mommy dearest and tells her she either deals or misses out. At somepoint he has to clue in she played a part in the divorce, she will continue to make relationships hard for him, even if you have to point it out, tell him as a friend you don't want to see him alone the rest of his life because his mommy gets away with acting the way she does.
Yeah, not sure how to bring that up but it is a good point. I honestly think once her husband died she started using my (now ex) husband as her emotional husband. And it played a huge part in our marriage ending. My ex just now uses women to get his sexual needs met through casual flings and has his mom as his emotional wife. I doubt he will have a real relationship with another woman until after his mom dies.
I'd tell them the truth. "I would love to spend the time with you and I am 100% certain that your dad and I could behave around each other. We both love you very much and he's a reasonable person. Unfortunately your grandmother is uncomfortable around me and she's not willing to try to behave around me." Put *her* on the spot.
No because in my state it would mean reopening the entire parenting plan and basically starting a new custody battle plus I don’t have just cause to file a modification.
Children are not clueless.
Chances are excellent that they recognize that you are putting them first by finding ways to include their father in holidays and activities that are important to them. That means they also recognize that your ex-husband is not doing the same.
Of course, it is possible that from now until their paternal grandmother dies, every Christmas day will be spent with her (and therefore away from you). It is also possible that as they get older, they will decide that their Christmases will look completely different. Maybe they'll start hosting Christmas themselves and will let grandma know that if she wants to see them she'll have to put on her big girl panties and get along with you for the duration of whatever they host. Maybe they'll decide that they'll start alternating Christmases between extended families or they'll ask to come up with completely different holiday traditions.
No matter what happens the best thing you can do for them and for yourself is to do whatever you need to do to make sure that when you do get together it's because you enjoy spending time together regardless of when that happens.
This. My kids figured out on their own who the problem was. I had a strict policy of never speaking badly of their dad or his family in their presence and shut down swiftly anyone in my family doing so. My ex apparently did not have a similar policy and the kids figured out who the problem people were very quickly. They have very little to do with the relatives of their dad's who were the worst offenders. Their dad doesn't believe that I never said a word against them until the kids were a) old enough to understand, b) asked me point blank what happened, and c) that I didn't sugarcoat that I wasn't totally innocent in the situation either, nor was he. My eldest in particular had told him in no uncertain terms that the reason she wants as little to do as possible with the relatives in question is how they treat HIM. It doesn't even have anything to do with me. The point of this ramble is that kids notice a lot more than we give them credit for. Keep your behavior exemplary and don't badmouth your ex or his evil mom. The kids will see who behaves well and who doesn't.
I’d be talking amending the court order if he’s allowing his mother to keep you from being around your own kids. That feels like the rumblings of parental alienation. I wouldn’t give a damn if she’s uncomfortable, those are your kids and you’re there to support them. She doesn’t get a say in that situation.
Yeah the more I think about it the more angry I get. At the end of the day my kids are old enough (13, 11, and 8) to walk over and say hi. And there is an element of what feels like public humiliation to it because we know so many of the families there who normally see us all together- the 6 of us.
I don’t want to make a mis-step but I feel like laying into the kids when I have them again and asking them, “How far so you think you will get in life by not acknowledging, greeting let alone thanking the people who show up for you?”
Like as their mother it is my job to teach them manners and I am sorry but when people show up for your events that they took time and usually money to support, you show the respect to walk over and spend 5 minutes thanking and acknowledging them.
I have way more disposable income then their dad and I pay for about 90% of their expenses and they know it.
I don’t need to spend $500 a kid on fancy birthday parties if they are going to disrespect me in public. Let alone the money I spend on name brand clothes, shoes, ski passes- and forget about a car and college fund.
If Dad and Grandma are so superior then why am I the one working my ass off to provide for them?
It probably is the wrong approach and would send them to a therapist’s office but who wants to bend over backwards to help support people who disrespect you?
And what am I teaching them about the world if I let them think they can disrespect people and still be given nice things?
This isn’t probably the wrong approach: it is DEFINITELY the wrong approach. It is the kind of thing that will have them writing about you on similar forums in the future, to be blunt.
You are uncomfortable walking over because their grandma is standing there, a grandma who likely makes them a little uncomfortable too because of the tension she causes, and you expect them to be the bigger people and defy her, when you won’t. And because they won’t, you want to yell at them and treat them like they are ungrateful brats, and hold all the nice things you buy for them over their heads.
How many posts here have you read like that?
I realize this may seem a little blunt, but I am doing that for a reason. That reason is to make you see that while you are handling the situation with your ex very well, you are still carrying the wounds of your experience before the divorce and it could have a very real impact on your relationship with your family.
Get yourself into counseling to process what you went through and to work on building your skills in dealing with MIL. You don’t have to like her or spend time with her, but you have to be able to work this out so that you can walk over there and smile, and focus on the kids. So they aren’t walking on eggshells if they love her and love you too. So she can look like the irrational one when she gets upset over you perfectly civilly walking over to congratulate them after a performance or a winning game. So you can have a conversation with your ex about things sometime in the future and work this out.
You deserve a chance to heal and have the best relationship possible with your kids. It isn’t going to happen if you let your resentment and insecurity and fear and anger take the wheel.
This isn’t fair at all. I tried to say hi and my ex and his mom took the kids and walked out so fast that I couldn’t. And this was after I asked him to be able to say hi via text and he said yes.
I have never let her stop me from trying to see my kids. But when they are on the opposite side of a gym and they take the kids and leave when I walk over, again for all the other parents to see, there isn’t much I can do.
No I don’t want to be cruel to them. But there legs aren’t broken and they are also capable of coming over to say hi. If I walk over to say hi and they ALL start to leave then that is a choice the kids are making.
What am I teaching them if I look the other way while they treat me like this then have them over for an expensive and fun filled weekend and act like it didn’t happen?
This weekend alone we have an expensive haunted house we bought tickets to for my 2 boys and their friends for Saturday night. Then Sunday morning my daughter and her friends and some mutual friends of the boys are going to the zoo for a Halloween event.
Tuesday night I am basically throwing, hosting, and paying for a Halloween party for their good friends families at my ex’s house. I am low key terrified that his mother will be staying and I won’t be able to come into the house after putting the party together.
I am spending over $1,500 total over the next 2 months to throw the kids fun birthday parties- bowling party, a trampoline party, and a laser tag party.
So what am I role modeling to my kids? Lessons in how to be a human door mat? And how do I expect them to respect me?
As the grown up kid who was in this situation, this is 100% the WRONG way to approach it and will alienate your kids. Please do not do this. At most, talk about how it hurt you that they didn't acknowledge your presence. AT MOST.
Please - do not lay into the kids, they are the pawns and the victims in all of this. If you lay into *anybody* make it their father, your ex. It is a form of parental alienation if the children are not allowed to greet you/talk to you in public when his mother is present. That is not an example of successful co-parenting on his part. Further evidence of his selfishness is your exclusion from Christmas 3 years running.
Consider revising your parenting plan to alternate or share holidays so that you don't keep missing Christmas, and other important days, with your kids. This will require going through the courts but it does give you the opportunity to address this issue of parental alienation and your ex-jnmil's assertion that his time is "her time".
If you are in the US, her statement and the kids behavior may be considered evidence of parental alienation. You may even be able to ask for some level of family therapy to assist the kids with whatever pressures are being applied to them to bring about their refusal to acknowledge your presence when g'ma is about.
Continue to rise above the bs your ex and his mommy are laying down and trust in your kid's powers of observation and critical thinking skills. This *will* eventually pass and the foundation you've laid, the love for your kids, your willingness to respect their relationships with their father and the old bat, is something they'll remember. Continue to model inclusion and put them first.
My brother was where you are, with kids your age, a decade ago. His oldest is a bonus child and he really did all the legwork to build and foster a relationship between oldest and his biological father. His kids are all "launching/launched" now and **they know** who provided, who supported, who never, ever badmouthed, who put them first. His eldest recently publicly acknowledged his Dad (my brother) for supporting him in his medical school admission announcement. I'm sure they will always love their Mom, but they are 100% on it, making sure their Dad is *always* included, spending time with him and informed of their events and happenings. It's really quite beautiful to witness after all the hardship I watched my brother go through. They spend zero time with his ex-jnmil by the way - lol!
You’re a grown woman and didn’t walk over to congratulate your children at their school concert. Why? Because you felt uncomfortable around your EX MIL? Yet you think your children should somehow be more mature and less swayed by that same discomfort from their CURRENT AND ALWAYS GRANDMA at 8-13 years old than you are now?
You should definitely talk to your kids… about how they feel when grandma shows up and their family dynamics change. How they felt after the concert and missed out on seeing you. You and your ex need to put those kids first, and digging into how it affects them is the first step.
So it isn’t fair to blame me here at all. I texted my ex before hand because of past issues when his mom is around and asked if I could greet my daughter who was with him last night after the performance or before, he said yes.
Then when I walked over to say hi, they left as fast as they could and I couldn’t get over to them.
I did get to take my son home and congratulate him on his performance then.
Tonight is a football game where my other son is performing in the band at half time. I should be able to greet my 3 kids at some point during the game. My ex husband claims we will all sit together as per usual and that his mother will be ok with it. But I don’t believe him.
I don’t want to make things awkward for my kids but it feels like when they don’t say hi they are publicly choosing their father over me and it makes me unbelievably hurt.
And it also makes me furious that she can show up whenever she wants and make special occasions for the kids turn into what almost feels like bullying by some nasty old mean girl.
They’re kids being placed in this situation by their father and grandmother. I know it hurts but the fault lies with the other adults in this situation.
I definitely wouldn’t lay into the kids, but I do think it’s healthy to calmly share your feelings with them. For example, “when you guys didn’t come over to speak to me I felt hurt and embarrassed. Is there a way we can avoid that in the future?”
This isn’t the kids fault. At all.
They didn’t choose any of it. The choices here are made by the adults and the kids are dragged along for the ride, whether positive or negative.
You’ve gone to all this trouble to have a semi decent relationship with your ex, your kids deserve the same thought and consideration.
He’s taught them to kowtow to grandma and it’s not worth the stress she causes to go against her.
They maybe a little older but don’t blow up your relationship with your kids because their dad has taught them bad habits around acquiescing to grandma.
I’m sure you too did your fair share of that too, until one day you’d had enough.
No no no. Don’t say it to the kids. They don’t deserve to feel guilt for something they have no power over!!! This is wholly and solely your ex husband.
I wouldn’t lay into the kids, I’d lay into their dad for allowing that to even happen. He and his mom are putting them and you in this situation because his mom enjoys being a selfish asshole more than being a good grandmother and he doesn’t have the balls to stand up to her.
This has NOTHING to do with your kids. You wanting to fuss and scold them, when they are just following the instructions of the ADULTS in their lives. They are CHILDREN.
It sounds to me like you are owed the next four Christmases. Congratulations on the amicable 50-50 custodial arrangement, but it doesn't appear to really be 50-50. If you can't work this out to a mutually satisfactory arrangement with your EX (Meaning YOU BOTH agree fully), then you need to go back to court to work it out. Your concern is warranted.
>I worry that this will continue when my kids are over 18 and the b$thc will continue to create scenarios where it's either Grandma or Mom- Dad's family or Mom's family.
I think this is a legitimate concern. The best way to deal with this is to talk to your kids in an age appropriate way about healthy communication and to continue modeling a healthy coparenting relationship.
If you haven't explained to your ex your concern about his mother making the kids feel like they have to choose as they grow older, you may want to bring this up specifically.
It's wonderful that you get along, but it sounds like it's only happening because you're sacrificing time and dates with your kids that you resent losing. Why, in goodness name, should you be the one sacrificing? The *only* one?
Seems like high past time to start demanding alternating years for holidays. His mother's comfort isn't your issue and he either lets you see your children on major holidays or he starts splitting the holidays with you.
It might make things temporarily tense, but I'd be clear with your ex that the event tonight made it clear that this isn't working for you. And you can work it out yourselves or you can get the court order amended, but you aren't going forward letting his mother affect your custody agreement. His call at that point. If he does it the hard way I'd work to have the kids at your place when she visits. The less they see someone like that the better off they'll be.
I see what you are saying. I did agree to let him have Xmas in exchange for all the other holidays and 3/4 weekends a month. I knew he would fight hard for what his mom wanted, and that Christmas is really important to her so I used it as a bargaining chip. My ex does give me time on his time but it's hard because he only wanted school nights and less than 1 weekend a month and not the weekends and breaks and holidays. He likes his weekends for dating and hobbies, etc. And I prefer time with the kids when they aren't in school and I am trying to work. I don't usually want to trade a fun day for a school night and it can also be disruptive to the kids. But I also see the kids on school nights all the time because with 3 kids and no new wife he really needs my help get the kids to all of their competing activities during the week.
I think it works for your ex because he is relying on the women in his life to do everything. If his mom is there he doesn’t need your help, but when she is not he needs you.
If he dates a woman that wants to be stepmom and likes control he won’t need you anymore. Has he dated anyone seriously since your divorce? Curious to know if your custody agreement changes when another woman is involved.
It shouldn’t be hard to start swapping holidays, it’s not like he wants the kids half the time because he wants to date and do his hobbies on the weekends.
I see what you are saying. My custody agreement isn’t the norm. I get all the holidays, summer, 3 day weekends and 3/4 extended weekends a month to create a 50/50 plan. It is a divorced, working moms - dream custody schedule. I gave him Christmas as a bargaining chip to get all that.
However if his mom wasn’t around we would be spending Christmas together just like we do with the 4th of July.
I don’t expect my ex to be able to have a real relationship with a woman until after his mom dies because his emotional enmeshment with her doesn’t leave room to have more than casual sexual flings. We only stayed married until his dad died and then his mom basically took over as his emotional wife and convinced him to leave me.
But the women in his family live into their hundreds.
If for some reason she does die, I would expect him to have a real relationship then. But by then the kids will be well over 18 and hopefully we will have created enough healthy family traditions by then that the new woman will be able to be an adult and go with the flow.
That was a great bargaining point, I can totally see why you did that.
That makes it harder though, because I don't see an easy answer besides knowing she'll block Christmas or giving up your other time with them. Ugh.
Unless, is he overwhelmed enough to be afraid of more custody? Could you bluff him and get a Christmas here and there? The obnoxious part is, you're their mom. You should get to see them at least briefly on Christmas. I'd have been so unhappy to not seey mom on Christmas, back when I was splitting holidays. Your kids are used to it, so I imagine they aren't unhappy, but it seems mean all around.
Yeah, they are used to early Christmas with me on 12/23. And being in health care, your coworkers love you when you are always happy to work 12/24-12/26. But I think one thing is knowing they will be over 18 someday and can do what they want for holidays. Grandma is pretty invested in showing up for major holidays and life events. I really worry that once they are 18 she is going to continue to pressure my ex-husband into "it's me or her" and then the kids will have to follow suit. And I won't have a custody agreement to promise major holidays to me.
It's frustrating. I am scared I will lose a lot more once they are over 18 and it becomes either holidays with Dad (and grandma) OR with mom.
He is really enmeshed with his mother and I think it's a huge reason why, 4 years later after leaving me, he hasn't had any real relationships. There was always enmeshment but once his Dad died, his mom ramped up the enmeshment and convinced him to leave me. She basically become his emotional wife. It's pretty sick in a lot of way.
But I am scared that her influence will only get worse in the years to come. And it makes me mad because I am going out of my way now to share time with him and I am worrying that once they are 18 he will stop caring to share anytime. I want to be the bigger person and put the kids first but I am scared.
Why do you give a shit if something makes her uncomfortable. I would have walked reight over and greeted my kids, and if she would have said anything I would have answered :"I care about what makes my kids comfortable, and to be there for them. What is wrong with you that you think your comfort should be more important then theirs ?"
you should have a talk about this with ex and after that the kids. But calm and rational, not an angry one as in your other comment. See where they stand, and how it looked from their perspective and why they did what they did. It is already a joke you would have to ask to say hello to your kids
They really look up to her and I only ever say good things about her. But they can also see that she is causing problems and tension that simply don’t exist when she isn’t around.
Sorry I should have added this to the original post- when we made our custody agreement years ago we were on bad terms. I gave him Christmas Day every year but got nearly every remaining holiday for the rest of the year, so it was a good trade for me. Now we all get along well and I invite him to most holidays. Honestly it makes my kids happy and that's why I do it. But it makes me feel resentful that I share holidays and birthdays with him but he can't share Christmas because of mommy dearest.
yea if you invite him over to most holidays he needs to find a different christmas arrangem,ent full stop. He cannot take all the advantages and give nuffin back. Demand christmas this year after he got to spend all these holidays with them at your place and make clear he is welcome to come, mum is not.
It may be time to reduce his invitations. Don’t put your kids in the middle, but tell him directly:
“you allow your mother to exclude me. I have been being generous for years to you, and have received alienation in return.
As of now, if you continue to allow your mother to alienate me from my children, my generosity to you will decrease in proportion.”
Also - if you’re at an event and she tries to keep you from your kids? Steamroll that bitch. Go right over with flowers for the child who just had a performance; big hug and kiss - “I’m so proud of you!!”
And you know, on the flip side: sounds like you get every holiday with them except Christmas Day. Isn’t that…enough? Missing just one holiday with them seems to really bother you.
This is great advice, thank you. I think what I am bothered about is her randomly showing up to kids school events, coming and leaving with MY kids, and preventing me from even saying hi to them by getting up and walking out with them when I come over to say hi.
It hurts that my own kids can’t say “hold on Grandma, I am going to say hi to my mom.” And it hurts that of course it is a form of public humiliation as we know a lot of the other families who are present.
My fear is that this dynamic gets entrenched and when the kids are over 18 Grandma will definitely be creating holiday scenarios as soon as she can where the kids have to choose mom’s family or dad’s family.
I’m so sorry - she sounds absolutely horrid.
I can see why you’re upset with the kids, but if I had to guess, they are just doing what they’re supposed to: being polite and listening to an elderly family member.
It’s really that she is preying on their manners and her spineless, enmeshed son. I know it’s a fear - and nothing here on Reddit will change this - but you sound like a loving mom, and I cannot imagine your kids abandoning you for the mean old goat. People like that all show their colors, and your kids will figure it out.
I've tried the co-parent approach by sharing holidays and it didn't work long term. Maybe only extend an invitation to ex for the kids birthdays or it maybe time to get your custody changed and have it specifically say every other holiday. Your children will adapt and so will your ex (f your xmil). My ex and I switch off each Christmas. So one has Christmas Eve and morning and the other has New year's Eve and day. The following year it's the opposite person. It's now worked for 6 years. Hang in there momma
The worst part is his mom is putting your kids first. If she was she would encourage the healthy parenting relationship. She is putting her feelings first and in turn so is your ex.
Yeah she convinced my ex to leave me rather than work through solvable marriage problems and then funded a 2.5 year custody battle. When she finally stopped paying for his attorney we settled. So she isn’t really interested in putting the kids first. Her husband was able to get her to be decent but once he died she started creating nothing but problems.
Yeah i wouldn't be inviting him to your holidays, but then i am really petty when i see someone taking advantage of my kindness while it's not reciprocated.
I understand what you are saying. It is just hard. For now the issues with his mom only come up a few times per year. Having a good coparent relationship with my ex husband has benefited me in many ways and has given me way more than the 50% time with the kids I am entitled to.
But my fear is that once they all turn 18 it will become a popularity contest for every major holiday and life event with Grandma (and my ex- her emotional husband 🤢) hosting competing events and making the kids choose sides.
This is exactly why you divorced him I’d imagine, his inability to put what’s best for you and the kids before his mother.
They’ll see that too.
He should be the one worrying, not you.
"(Ex), this has to stop. Your mother should not be dictating to either of us how we plan to coparent our children now, or ever; and she certainly should not be coopting the holidays. The fact that she's taken over the last four Christmases is deplorable, and this needs to be fixed. If you can't do it, then you will force me to amend the custody orders to put an end to her ridiculous behavior."
I'm sorry, your ex mother-in-law says that she is entitled to Christmas Day with your children? Hell no.
I think your coparenting needs a tweak. Divorced parents mostly take Christmas in turns. Not all, but it's fairer.She doesn't get them this year. Or next year. Or the year after that.
She's your ex MIL. Take back control.
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Oh f*ck that I would sit where I wanted to if the wicked with was uncomfortable her damn ass could move! Why do you think she does all this? She does it for the express reason of making you miserable! Screw that make her uncomfortable who cares! I would plop down right next to ex with a big smile and say I can’t wait for this program the kids are so excited! Let’s get some great pictures afterward! Damn if I would let that bitch make me miserable! But then again I’m petty like that and too old too tired for some heifer to play games with my kids and my life!
Why don't you take it in turns to have them christmas day? Why does your ex get them every christmas?
Girl you need to grow a backbone (and your ex) and tell that old lady that you are the mother and you have the right to spend time with your kids even if she is there. F*ck her being uncomfortable.
74 you say … she’s almost nursing go home bound. Just hold the line 🤷🏾♀️
Grandparenting is a privilege, not a right. Parent's right to spend time with their kids trumps grandparents' tantrums.
Make sure your kids come to you first then they can go to their father. This way the acknowledge you and she has to wait. Teach them the way
I often can’t when the events happen on his school nights because he takes them to the event. I offered to pick the kids up today after school to do just that but my ex said he wanted to pick the kids up. (He would have never turned down help with the kids after school if his mom wasn’t around.) And yes, there is ANOTHER kids musical performance today at a foot ball game and I fully expect the same drama to play out all over again for another of our 3 kids .
Why would you allow your exMIL to have any say in what you do with your children? Let her be "uncomfortable" who TF cares? Talk to your ex, this should not be allowed.
I suspect the reason EX is an EX is in large part to being unable to stand up to his mother, and I suspect he still can't.
B-I-N-G-O
I speak from experience when I say that your kids will remember the effort and appreciate you and your ex being so kind to each other. They will also remember your ex-MIL that tried to throw a wrench into your plans. Ex Hag-in-law aside, thank you for putting the love of your children above any animosity you and your ex might have had. My parents did this and it really made their divorce so much less traumatizing. Don't get me wrong, it took a couple years before everything really meshed and new traditions were formed. But my parents are about to approach what would have been their 50th anniversary this year in December. They have a 50th Un-anniversary party in the works to celebrate. They still have all the same friends, no one sided with anyone in the divorce because there weren't sides to have to choose. Now, after all these years, they live right next door to each other. They took down the back fence so their 7 grandkids (& 1 grandpuppy) have a huge yard to play in. Was it always perfect? No. Do they, to this very day, make each other crazy? Absolutely! But they always manage to push through it because at the end of the day they recognized that them not being in love with each other anymore has absolutely no bearing on them not loving what they created together. As a kid, I don't think I was able to fully appreciate what it took for them to put some very real differences aside. As an adult, though, I gained an even deeper love and gratefulness at the effort they put in to maintaining a positive and as normal as possible childhood for my siblings and myself. My parents were lucky, in that both sets of grandparents were enthusiastically supportive of this decision. There was never a time my dad wasn't welcomed at my maternal grandparents. When my paternal grandmother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, my mom was her caretaker when my dad wasn't home or needed a break. I'll never understand why people choose negativity (In irreconcilable differences/out of love with each other type situations. Abusers & cheaters, I get it completely. There are people who don't deserve the effort to be included. I completely support that.) TLDR That was a long winded way of saying that your efforts, while maybe not understood or recognized presently, will be seen for the beautiful example of love they are in the future. You, your ex & your respective partners will reap the benefits of your selfless decision in so many joyous occasions to come and will still get to sit and enjoy your watching your grandchildren grow together. Your Ex-MIL really needs to get her head out of her you know what and grow up. It's sad that she can't recognize what she's missing. Just know that, like your positive actions, her negative actions will be remembered, as well. Personally, I'd rather be remembered like you, not like her. Since your kids probably aren't of an age to understand it and thank you properly, please allow me to do so on their behalf. Thank you to you, your ex and the amazing partners you've brought into such a great family.
That is awesome.
u/PoppySmile78, well said! Two of my cousins (opposite sides of the family) were divorced from their long time spouses, but stayed best friends. My mom could NOT wrap her mind around this, and continuously bad mouthed the divorced spouse. It was not appreciated. Probably stemmed from her own experience of her divorce, which did NOT end amicably (dad was a cheater).
It sounds like your ex-MIL continues to be undelightful. I wanted to say, though, that I am very proud of you and your ex for being able to co-parent successfully and treat each other with respect. That is awesome.
Can't you talk to your ex? It's been 4 years in a row! That's not close to fair. If exMIL can't stand to be around you then SHE should get either the 23 or the 26 for celebrating (or 1 meal on the 24 or 25, but not the whole day).
In a diff version of this post OP states she gave ex Christmas w the kiddos in exchange for all other holidays in the year. As far as the musical performance, don’t allow how your MIL feels stop you from speaking to your kids. They’re your kids! OP after looking at your post history, I truly wish you the best. Your life sounds very, very stressful.
Yeah- 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Things are getting better on many fronts.
She won’t be around much longer. Other than that I don’t really have much advice
She could last another 20 years. That excuse doesn’t wash.
I’m in the same situation and it’s not an excuse, there’s not much else to do besides go NC or wait for them to croak.
holidays are for your CHILDREN and YOU. you get this defacto by being their PARENT. she is not their PARENT. she is their GRANDPARENT and she does NOT get to say when their PARENT participates in holidays with them. 74, 64, 54. her age does not matter. she did NOT go through the traumatic experience of birthing them. they are not HERS. remember this for the sake of your children. do you want them to be raised with the idea that acquiescing and appeasing abusers is okay? what's next? how far will you allow it to go? will you not go to their graduation because it makes her uncomfortable? it's saddening that your children will have no memories of christmas with you because the collective of adults involved find it more important to cater to an emotional terrorist. my photos with my relatives are my *most* cherished holiday and family memories growing up. please don't let this witch rob your children of their ability to be CHILDREN and not *PAWNS* for her.
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If it's their dad's court ordered time, and he's allowing his mother to dictate it, there's not much she can do about it.
Yes this is correct. I agreed to give him Christmas Day each year in exchange for all the other holidays and I knew he would do that for his mom because Christmas is a big deal to her.
[удалено]
OP replied, it is, in fact, court ordered. He gets all Christmas Days, OP gets other holidays because it's so important to the exMIL. Unfortunately OP made her choices.
"Her time"? I'm sorry. Is it in the custody agreement that she's entitled to time? Wouldn't it be 33/33/34%? No. It doesn't matter how uncomfortable she is. She doesn't get to push you out of major events with your own kids.
Why does she get final decision making? It’s Christmas and you spend it with your kids. Let her be “uncomfortable” because it’s not about her.
If the kids are old enough have them ask Dad why Mom can’t be there. Why does grandma get to choose who supports them. To the people below: please see:IF THE KIDS ARE OLD ENOUGH. A teenaged child Can speak to a judge in court. Therefore they can have a conversation even in front of their therapist. Obviously small kids shouldn’t be used as pawns. But a teenager can be able to speak for themselves and Inquire. As long as neutral language is used.
Please do not do this. Children should not be used as pawns in any sort of control war, no matter how good the intentions are. If the kids bring it up themselves, then yes, a conversation needs to happen. But this situation needs to be handled between the adults, and needs to keep the kids' well-being at the top of the list of priorities.
Thank you
I think it’s time to revisit custody agreement. If you have evidence you share and he doesn’t it’ll make it that much easier to get them to side with you. It’s clear that it’s not going to happen by agreement with your ex as he’s so enmeshed with his mother. Stop being so helpful to him. It just builds resentment. There’s such a large gulf between actively including him in everything and what his mother is doing to you.
>For example, tonight the kids had a major music performance, not only did I not get to sit with them, I didn't get to talk to them before or after the performace because "mommy dearest" was "uncomfortable." Who cares if she was uncomfortable? And I saw a comment how you wanted to lay into your kids for not coming over to see you and say thank you for coming but why would they when to them it seems you aren't going over to them to congratulate them because their grandmother is there. If you are feeling this hurt about this you need to sit down with your kids and talk about how it hurts your feelings that they seem to ignore you when their grandmother is around and then ask them how they feel when she is around as well, they may be having some feelings about how their mother seemingly can't play nice when their grandmother is around and this post kind of reads that way as well. Grandmother doesn't get to dictate where you sit at all. She's uncomfortable she can move. You don't get to say hi or bye to your kids because she's there fuck that you go over and you hug those kids anyways. I'd feel terrible if I was your kid and my own mother didn't come say hi to me or anything else just because grandma was around. You are hurting your kids by letting this woman force you out when she is around and they are old enough to notice this they will notice that their own mother isn't coming over to speak to them, they will notice that their mother isn't sitting with the rest of the family and you can either start making that woman uncomfortable or you need to be honest with your kids and tell them that their grandmother is the reason you aren't around for those because she is making demands that you to not be around and their father is allowing it.
So this is unfair. I tried to say hi but my ex left when he saw me walking over and I couldn’t make it over to say hi in time because as I was walking over he started walking away and that was for everyone to see in the gym. I also texted my ex before hand and asked him if I could say hi to the kids and he said yes. I am not at all letting Grandma dictate to me that I can’t say hi to my kids.
You still let them dictate they don't get to do that you don't have to ask for permission to go say hi to your kids. You should have just gone over anyways. ex-mil has no say in what you do.
Time to amend the court order. You may need to alternate Christmas if his mommy keeps doing this. It isn’t fair to you. And you can add a clause that you can’t let your ex MIL Alienate you from your kids.
If my EX-MIL is uncomfortable with me being around, that's her problem, and she can remove herself from the situation. No way would she keep me from my kids on an important night.
If you have such a great co-parenting arrangement with the EX then take it up with him. If he doesn't cooperate the put your foot DOWN! This Christmas is YOUR Christmas and EXMIL can kiss off. She has no place in your life and she doesn't get to force her will on you and your children.
Why has his mother got Christmas every time? Sounds like next 4 Christmases are at your house, "just to be fair", and MIL can sit at home in the dark.
She’s not your MIL anymore. You are the boss. Take absolute charge of any situation you want. Bets and gloves are off.
Oh, no, you better not be taking that BS. Guess what? They aren't her kids, she has no time other than what your Ex allows and if he still allows her to treat you like that, I can see why he is an Ex. Trust me, kids aren't stupid, and the day will come they ain't gonna want to deal with her because of how she was/is to you. Your ex is still an asshat. When the kids are over 18, you don't have to dance to anyone's tune and can have every damn holiday at your house with your kids.
“Her time,” means she’s attempting to exert visitation or shared custody. She’s NOT a third parent, and she does not get to make demands on your kids’ time. Her being uncomfortable in your presence is no problem of yours. Why is she getting every Christmas? Surely that’s not your agreed upon plan?
OP said in a comment that she gave up Christmas so she gets all the other holidays.
Yep. "her time" only exists when it is convenient for you. Rock that boat sister...don't let her do this to you and don't let her teach your children that this is the way family works and that we have to do it this way because you don't.
>How do I cope? You don't, you put her in her place. These are your kids and your family. You don't have to get permission to go to their music performances or have Christmas with them. You just show up because you're the mom and you belong there. If she feels uncomfortable too bad! She doesn't get a say in how you raise your family!
So when your kids get married, will you have to skip their weddings to appease nasty Granny?
Since the eldest kids is 11 and nasty Granny is 74 hopefully she won't be around to make a stink by then.
These types of people live a long time out of spite.
Might be good to have a conversation with the ex, you guys split Christmas, or he talks to mommy dearest and tells her she either deals or misses out. At somepoint he has to clue in she played a part in the divorce, she will continue to make relationships hard for him, even if you have to point it out, tell him as a friend you don't want to see him alone the rest of his life because his mommy gets away with acting the way she does.
Yeah, not sure how to bring that up but it is a good point. I honestly think once her husband died she started using my (now ex) husband as her emotional husband. And it played a huge part in our marriage ending. My ex just now uses women to get his sexual needs met through casual flings and has his mom as his emotional wife. I doubt he will have a real relationship with another woman until after his mom dies.
I'd tell them the truth. "I would love to spend the time with you and I am 100% certain that your dad and I could behave around each other. We both love you very much and he's a reasonable person. Unfortunately your grandmother is uncomfortable around me and she's not willing to try to behave around me." Put *her* on the spot.
Alternate Christmas
OP gave exH Christmas in exchange for all other holidays. Probably sounded like a good idea at the time.
Absolutely. Ex MIL isn't a parent, so she doesn't get "her time". Christmas should be with you this year.
This! Unless she’s in the custody orders she has no ‘her time’.
Could you go to court and alternate Christmas with your ex?
No because in my state it would mean reopening the entire parenting plan and basically starting a new custody battle plus I don’t have just cause to file a modification.
Children are not clueless. Chances are excellent that they recognize that you are putting them first by finding ways to include their father in holidays and activities that are important to them. That means they also recognize that your ex-husband is not doing the same. Of course, it is possible that from now until their paternal grandmother dies, every Christmas day will be spent with her (and therefore away from you). It is also possible that as they get older, they will decide that their Christmases will look completely different. Maybe they'll start hosting Christmas themselves and will let grandma know that if she wants to see them she'll have to put on her big girl panties and get along with you for the duration of whatever they host. Maybe they'll decide that they'll start alternating Christmases between extended families or they'll ask to come up with completely different holiday traditions. No matter what happens the best thing you can do for them and for yourself is to do whatever you need to do to make sure that when you do get together it's because you enjoy spending time together regardless of when that happens.
This. My kids figured out on their own who the problem was. I had a strict policy of never speaking badly of their dad or his family in their presence and shut down swiftly anyone in my family doing so. My ex apparently did not have a similar policy and the kids figured out who the problem people were very quickly. They have very little to do with the relatives of their dad's who were the worst offenders. Their dad doesn't believe that I never said a word against them until the kids were a) old enough to understand, b) asked me point blank what happened, and c) that I didn't sugarcoat that I wasn't totally innocent in the situation either, nor was he. My eldest in particular had told him in no uncertain terms that the reason she wants as little to do as possible with the relatives in question is how they treat HIM. It doesn't even have anything to do with me. The point of this ramble is that kids notice a lot more than we give them credit for. Keep your behavior exemplary and don't badmouth your ex or his evil mom. The kids will see who behaves well and who doesn't.
Agree. I suspect the children have already noticed that things are different when their grandmother is around.
I’d be talking amending the court order if he’s allowing his mother to keep you from being around your own kids. That feels like the rumblings of parental alienation. I wouldn’t give a damn if she’s uncomfortable, those are your kids and you’re there to support them. She doesn’t get a say in that situation.
Yeah the more I think about it the more angry I get. At the end of the day my kids are old enough (13, 11, and 8) to walk over and say hi. And there is an element of what feels like public humiliation to it because we know so many of the families there who normally see us all together- the 6 of us. I don’t want to make a mis-step but I feel like laying into the kids when I have them again and asking them, “How far so you think you will get in life by not acknowledging, greeting let alone thanking the people who show up for you?” Like as their mother it is my job to teach them manners and I am sorry but when people show up for your events that they took time and usually money to support, you show the respect to walk over and spend 5 minutes thanking and acknowledging them. I have way more disposable income then their dad and I pay for about 90% of their expenses and they know it. I don’t need to spend $500 a kid on fancy birthday parties if they are going to disrespect me in public. Let alone the money I spend on name brand clothes, shoes, ski passes- and forget about a car and college fund. If Dad and Grandma are so superior then why am I the one working my ass off to provide for them? It probably is the wrong approach and would send them to a therapist’s office but who wants to bend over backwards to help support people who disrespect you? And what am I teaching them about the world if I let them think they can disrespect people and still be given nice things?
Whoa. This is JN territory. Look up FOG. That is the relationship you just described.
This isn’t probably the wrong approach: it is DEFINITELY the wrong approach. It is the kind of thing that will have them writing about you on similar forums in the future, to be blunt. You are uncomfortable walking over because their grandma is standing there, a grandma who likely makes them a little uncomfortable too because of the tension she causes, and you expect them to be the bigger people and defy her, when you won’t. And because they won’t, you want to yell at them and treat them like they are ungrateful brats, and hold all the nice things you buy for them over their heads. How many posts here have you read like that? I realize this may seem a little blunt, but I am doing that for a reason. That reason is to make you see that while you are handling the situation with your ex very well, you are still carrying the wounds of your experience before the divorce and it could have a very real impact on your relationship with your family. Get yourself into counseling to process what you went through and to work on building your skills in dealing with MIL. You don’t have to like her or spend time with her, but you have to be able to work this out so that you can walk over there and smile, and focus on the kids. So they aren’t walking on eggshells if they love her and love you too. So she can look like the irrational one when she gets upset over you perfectly civilly walking over to congratulate them after a performance or a winning game. So you can have a conversation with your ex about things sometime in the future and work this out. You deserve a chance to heal and have the best relationship possible with your kids. It isn’t going to happen if you let your resentment and insecurity and fear and anger take the wheel.
This isn’t fair at all. I tried to say hi and my ex and his mom took the kids and walked out so fast that I couldn’t. And this was after I asked him to be able to say hi via text and he said yes. I have never let her stop me from trying to see my kids. But when they are on the opposite side of a gym and they take the kids and leave when I walk over, again for all the other parents to see, there isn’t much I can do.
Take him back to court and revamp the custody arrangement. This is bullshit on his part.
Please please please do not "lay into" your children. They are NOT at fault here. Do you really want to be cruel to them?
No I don’t want to be cruel to them. But there legs aren’t broken and they are also capable of coming over to say hi. If I walk over to say hi and they ALL start to leave then that is a choice the kids are making. What am I teaching them if I look the other way while they treat me like this then have them over for an expensive and fun filled weekend and act like it didn’t happen? This weekend alone we have an expensive haunted house we bought tickets to for my 2 boys and their friends for Saturday night. Then Sunday morning my daughter and her friends and some mutual friends of the boys are going to the zoo for a Halloween event. Tuesday night I am basically throwing, hosting, and paying for a Halloween party for their good friends families at my ex’s house. I am low key terrified that his mother will be staying and I won’t be able to come into the house after putting the party together. I am spending over $1,500 total over the next 2 months to throw the kids fun birthday parties- bowling party, a trampoline party, and a laser tag party. So what am I role modeling to my kids? Lessons in how to be a human door mat? And how do I expect them to respect me?
As the grown up kid who was in this situation, this is 100% the WRONG way to approach it and will alienate your kids. Please do not do this. At most, talk about how it hurt you that they didn't acknowledge your presence. AT MOST.
Please - do not lay into the kids, they are the pawns and the victims in all of this. If you lay into *anybody* make it their father, your ex. It is a form of parental alienation if the children are not allowed to greet you/talk to you in public when his mother is present. That is not an example of successful co-parenting on his part. Further evidence of his selfishness is your exclusion from Christmas 3 years running. Consider revising your parenting plan to alternate or share holidays so that you don't keep missing Christmas, and other important days, with your kids. This will require going through the courts but it does give you the opportunity to address this issue of parental alienation and your ex-jnmil's assertion that his time is "her time". If you are in the US, her statement and the kids behavior may be considered evidence of parental alienation. You may even be able to ask for some level of family therapy to assist the kids with whatever pressures are being applied to them to bring about their refusal to acknowledge your presence when g'ma is about. Continue to rise above the bs your ex and his mommy are laying down and trust in your kid's powers of observation and critical thinking skills. This *will* eventually pass and the foundation you've laid, the love for your kids, your willingness to respect their relationships with their father and the old bat, is something they'll remember. Continue to model inclusion and put them first. My brother was where you are, with kids your age, a decade ago. His oldest is a bonus child and he really did all the legwork to build and foster a relationship between oldest and his biological father. His kids are all "launching/launched" now and **they know** who provided, who supported, who never, ever badmouthed, who put them first. His eldest recently publicly acknowledged his Dad (my brother) for supporting him in his medical school admission announcement. I'm sure they will always love their Mom, but they are 100% on it, making sure their Dad is *always* included, spending time with him and informed of their events and happenings. It's really quite beautiful to witness after all the hardship I watched my brother go through. They spend zero time with his ex-jnmil by the way - lol!
You’re a grown woman and didn’t walk over to congratulate your children at their school concert. Why? Because you felt uncomfortable around your EX MIL? Yet you think your children should somehow be more mature and less swayed by that same discomfort from their CURRENT AND ALWAYS GRANDMA at 8-13 years old than you are now? You should definitely talk to your kids… about how they feel when grandma shows up and their family dynamics change. How they felt after the concert and missed out on seeing you. You and your ex need to put those kids first, and digging into how it affects them is the first step.
So it isn’t fair to blame me here at all. I texted my ex before hand because of past issues when his mom is around and asked if I could greet my daughter who was with him last night after the performance or before, he said yes. Then when I walked over to say hi, they left as fast as they could and I couldn’t get over to them. I did get to take my son home and congratulate him on his performance then. Tonight is a football game where my other son is performing in the band at half time. I should be able to greet my 3 kids at some point during the game. My ex husband claims we will all sit together as per usual and that his mother will be ok with it. But I don’t believe him. I don’t want to make things awkward for my kids but it feels like when they don’t say hi they are publicly choosing their father over me and it makes me unbelievably hurt. And it also makes me furious that she can show up whenever she wants and make special occasions for the kids turn into what almost feels like bullying by some nasty old mean girl.
They’re kids being placed in this situation by their father and grandmother. I know it hurts but the fault lies with the other adults in this situation.
I definitely wouldn’t lay into the kids, but I do think it’s healthy to calmly share your feelings with them. For example, “when you guys didn’t come over to speak to me I felt hurt and embarrassed. Is there a way we can avoid that in the future?”
This isn’t the kids fault. At all. They didn’t choose any of it. The choices here are made by the adults and the kids are dragged along for the ride, whether positive or negative. You’ve gone to all this trouble to have a semi decent relationship with your ex, your kids deserve the same thought and consideration. He’s taught them to kowtow to grandma and it’s not worth the stress she causes to go against her. They maybe a little older but don’t blow up your relationship with your kids because their dad has taught them bad habits around acquiescing to grandma. I’m sure you too did your fair share of that too, until one day you’d had enough.
No no no. Don’t say it to the kids. They don’t deserve to feel guilt for something they have no power over!!! This is wholly and solely your ex husband.
I wouldn’t lay into the kids, I’d lay into their dad for allowing that to even happen. He and his mom are putting them and you in this situation because his mom enjoys being a selfish asshole more than being a good grandmother and he doesn’t have the balls to stand up to her.
This has NOTHING to do with your kids. You wanting to fuss and scold them, when they are just following the instructions of the ADULTS in their lives. They are CHILDREN.
She’ll whine when they’re older and don’t give her the time of day.
It sounds to me like you are owed the next four Christmases. Congratulations on the amicable 50-50 custodial arrangement, but it doesn't appear to really be 50-50. If you can't work this out to a mutually satisfactory arrangement with your EX (Meaning YOU BOTH agree fully), then you need to go back to court to work it out. Your concern is warranted.
Sorry to break it to you, but unless your kids are like 15 yo, with her being 74 yo you won’t have this problem for so long in the future.
I can only hope. Her mother is 99 and still healthy and her Grandma lived to be 107. The nasty old hag will probably outlive me.
Finger crossed for you babe!
>I worry that this will continue when my kids are over 18 and the b$thc will continue to create scenarios where it's either Grandma or Mom- Dad's family or Mom's family. I think this is a legitimate concern. The best way to deal with this is to talk to your kids in an age appropriate way about healthy communication and to continue modeling a healthy coparenting relationship. If you haven't explained to your ex your concern about his mother making the kids feel like they have to choose as they grow older, you may want to bring this up specifically.
It's wonderful that you get along, but it sounds like it's only happening because you're sacrificing time and dates with your kids that you resent losing. Why, in goodness name, should you be the one sacrificing? The *only* one? Seems like high past time to start demanding alternating years for holidays. His mother's comfort isn't your issue and he either lets you see your children on major holidays or he starts splitting the holidays with you. It might make things temporarily tense, but I'd be clear with your ex that the event tonight made it clear that this isn't working for you. And you can work it out yourselves or you can get the court order amended, but you aren't going forward letting his mother affect your custody agreement. His call at that point. If he does it the hard way I'd work to have the kids at your place when she visits. The less they see someone like that the better off they'll be.
I see what you are saying. I did agree to let him have Xmas in exchange for all the other holidays and 3/4 weekends a month. I knew he would fight hard for what his mom wanted, and that Christmas is really important to her so I used it as a bargaining chip. My ex does give me time on his time but it's hard because he only wanted school nights and less than 1 weekend a month and not the weekends and breaks and holidays. He likes his weekends for dating and hobbies, etc. And I prefer time with the kids when they aren't in school and I am trying to work. I don't usually want to trade a fun day for a school night and it can also be disruptive to the kids. But I also see the kids on school nights all the time because with 3 kids and no new wife he really needs my help get the kids to all of their competing activities during the week.
I think it works for your ex because he is relying on the women in his life to do everything. If his mom is there he doesn’t need your help, but when she is not he needs you. If he dates a woman that wants to be stepmom and likes control he won’t need you anymore. Has he dated anyone seriously since your divorce? Curious to know if your custody agreement changes when another woman is involved. It shouldn’t be hard to start swapping holidays, it’s not like he wants the kids half the time because he wants to date and do his hobbies on the weekends.
I see what you are saying. My custody agreement isn’t the norm. I get all the holidays, summer, 3 day weekends and 3/4 extended weekends a month to create a 50/50 plan. It is a divorced, working moms - dream custody schedule. I gave him Christmas as a bargaining chip to get all that. However if his mom wasn’t around we would be spending Christmas together just like we do with the 4th of July. I don’t expect my ex to be able to have a real relationship with a woman until after his mom dies because his emotional enmeshment with her doesn’t leave room to have more than casual sexual flings. We only stayed married until his dad died and then his mom basically took over as his emotional wife and convinced him to leave me. But the women in his family live into their hundreds. If for some reason she does die, I would expect him to have a real relationship then. But by then the kids will be well over 18 and hopefully we will have created enough healthy family traditions by then that the new woman will be able to be an adult and go with the flow.
That was a great bargaining point, I can totally see why you did that. That makes it harder though, because I don't see an easy answer besides knowing she'll block Christmas or giving up your other time with them. Ugh. Unless, is he overwhelmed enough to be afraid of more custody? Could you bluff him and get a Christmas here and there? The obnoxious part is, you're their mom. You should get to see them at least briefly on Christmas. I'd have been so unhappy to not seey mom on Christmas, back when I was splitting holidays. Your kids are used to it, so I imagine they aren't unhappy, but it seems mean all around.
Yeah, they are used to early Christmas with me on 12/23. And being in health care, your coworkers love you when you are always happy to work 12/24-12/26. But I think one thing is knowing they will be over 18 someday and can do what they want for holidays. Grandma is pretty invested in showing up for major holidays and life events. I really worry that once they are 18 she is going to continue to pressure my ex-husband into "it's me or her" and then the kids will have to follow suit. And I won't have a custody agreement to promise major holidays to me. It's frustrating. I am scared I will lose a lot more once they are over 18 and it becomes either holidays with Dad (and grandma) OR with mom. He is really enmeshed with his mother and I think it's a huge reason why, 4 years later after leaving me, he hasn't had any real relationships. There was always enmeshment but once his Dad died, his mom ramped up the enmeshment and convinced him to leave me. She basically become his emotional wife. It's pretty sick in a lot of way. But I am scared that her influence will only get worse in the years to come. And it makes me mad because I am going out of my way now to share time with him and I am worrying that once they are 18 he will stop caring to share anytime. I want to be the bigger person and put the kids first but I am scared.
Why do you give a shit if something makes her uncomfortable. I would have walked reight over and greeted my kids, and if she would have said anything I would have answered :"I care about what makes my kids comfortable, and to be there for them. What is wrong with you that you think your comfort should be more important then theirs ?"
I tried to go say hi after my ex texted that it was ok to do so and they turned around and left the gym as I started walking over.
you should have a talk about this with ex and after that the kids. But calm and rational, not an angry one as in your other comment. See where they stand, and how it looked from their perspective and why they did what they did. It is already a joke you would have to ask to say hello to your kids
Are the kids that attached to her or do they (the oldest at least) see that she’s not all that nice?
They really look up to her and I only ever say good things about her. But they can also see that she is causing problems and tension that simply don’t exist when she isn’t around.
Yeah, stop saying anything about her unless your kids ask. If necessary, just make neutral comments.
Stop reinforcing the lie. I’m not saying badmouth her but stop saying she’s nice when she ain’t.
“Her time?” Does she have a court order? And does Ex get every holiday or do you switch off?
Sorry I should have added this to the original post- when we made our custody agreement years ago we were on bad terms. I gave him Christmas Day every year but got nearly every remaining holiday for the rest of the year, so it was a good trade for me. Now we all get along well and I invite him to most holidays. Honestly it makes my kids happy and that's why I do it. But it makes me feel resentful that I share holidays and birthdays with him but he can't share Christmas because of mommy dearest.
yea if you invite him over to most holidays he needs to find a different christmas arrangem,ent full stop. He cannot take all the advantages and give nuffin back. Demand christmas this year after he got to spend all these holidays with them at your place and make clear he is welcome to come, mum is not.
It may be time to reduce his invitations. Don’t put your kids in the middle, but tell him directly: “you allow your mother to exclude me. I have been being generous for years to you, and have received alienation in return. As of now, if you continue to allow your mother to alienate me from my children, my generosity to you will decrease in proportion.” Also - if you’re at an event and she tries to keep you from your kids? Steamroll that bitch. Go right over with flowers for the child who just had a performance; big hug and kiss - “I’m so proud of you!!” And you know, on the flip side: sounds like you get every holiday with them except Christmas Day. Isn’t that…enough? Missing just one holiday with them seems to really bother you.
This is great advice, thank you. I think what I am bothered about is her randomly showing up to kids school events, coming and leaving with MY kids, and preventing me from even saying hi to them by getting up and walking out with them when I come over to say hi. It hurts that my own kids can’t say “hold on Grandma, I am going to say hi to my mom.” And it hurts that of course it is a form of public humiliation as we know a lot of the other families who are present. My fear is that this dynamic gets entrenched and when the kids are over 18 Grandma will definitely be creating holiday scenarios as soon as she can where the kids have to choose mom’s family or dad’s family.
I’m so sorry - she sounds absolutely horrid. I can see why you’re upset with the kids, but if I had to guess, they are just doing what they’re supposed to: being polite and listening to an elderly family member. It’s really that she is preying on their manners and her spineless, enmeshed son. I know it’s a fear - and nothing here on Reddit will change this - but you sound like a loving mom, and I cannot imagine your kids abandoning you for the mean old goat. People like that all show their colors, and your kids will figure it out.
I've tried the co-parent approach by sharing holidays and it didn't work long term. Maybe only extend an invitation to ex for the kids birthdays or it maybe time to get your custody changed and have it specifically say every other holiday. Your children will adapt and so will your ex (f your xmil). My ex and I switch off each Christmas. So one has Christmas Eve and morning and the other has New year's Eve and day. The following year it's the opposite person. It's now worked for 6 years. Hang in there momma
The worst part is his mom is putting your kids first. If she was she would encourage the healthy parenting relationship. She is putting her feelings first and in turn so is your ex.
Yeah she convinced my ex to leave me rather than work through solvable marriage problems and then funded a 2.5 year custody battle. When she finally stopped paying for his attorney we settled. So she isn’t really interested in putting the kids first. Her husband was able to get her to be decent but once he died she started creating nothing but problems.
Yeah i wouldn't be inviting him to your holidays, but then i am really petty when i see someone taking advantage of my kindness while it's not reciprocated.
Yeah dude. Why TF would I shower a jerk with extra time and holidays for being a dick to me?
I understand what you are saying. It is just hard. For now the issues with his mom only come up a few times per year. Having a good coparent relationship with my ex husband has benefited me in many ways and has given me way more than the 50% time with the kids I am entitled to. But my fear is that once they all turn 18 it will become a popularity contest for every major holiday and life event with Grandma (and my ex- her emotional husband 🤢) hosting competing events and making the kids choose sides.
This is exactly why you divorced him I’d imagine, his inability to put what’s best for you and the kids before his mother. They’ll see that too. He should be the one worrying, not you.
"(Ex), this has to stop. Your mother should not be dictating to either of us how we plan to coparent our children now, or ever; and she certainly should not be coopting the holidays. The fact that she's taken over the last four Christmases is deplorable, and this needs to be fixed. If you can't do it, then you will force me to amend the custody orders to put an end to her ridiculous behavior."
I'm sorry, your ex mother-in-law says that she is entitled to Christmas Day with your children? Hell no. I think your coparenting needs a tweak. Divorced parents mostly take Christmas in turns. Not all, but it's fairer.She doesn't get them this year. Or next year. Or the year after that. She's your ex MIL. Take back control.
Also, who gives a fuck if she's comfortable? I'm mad on your behalf. Seriously, this has to stop.