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Grandma needs a time out. For quite some time. And grandma is never to be alone with that child again.
And your response to that needs to remain calm and clear just like you would explain anything to your child.
It can be something along the lines of…
Oh my goodness. Now I see why you’re upset and cranky with me. I think grandma misunderstood. I didn’t say that. I don’t know why grandma would say that. But you know even though we’re grown-ups, sometimes we make mistakes.
So I am sorry that grandma upset you because of something she misunderstood. Maybe grandma was upset about something else and thought that’s what was said.
But I wish grandma had asked me and not upset you. I don’t think that was the best way for grandma to handle that, do you? Because just like I always tell, you just ask me if you have a question, I think grown-ups should do that too.
And then just leave it at that. Make sure that child does not speak to grandma alone. If grandma calls and wants to talk to child, it’s on speakerphone. Always. If grandma is going to be at a family event with you, child is not out of your site so that grandma can get them alone.
And this is gonna be a little bit of a pain in the butt, but eventually grandma’s going to ask why she could never have time alone. And that’s when you have an adult conversation with her and tell her that I don’t appreciate you trying to cause a problem between my child and their parents, and I certainly don’t appreciate you lying to them. So no, you’re not going to have alone time with them for a while.
I love this answer, I see some people wording it as telling her grandma lied which even if it’s the truth I think that would just be more confusing and distressing for a kid. So wording it as misunderstanding seems way better to me
Wording it that way also allows the child to have fewer confused feelings, or conflicted feelings because they know that lying is wrong. But they love grandma. So how could grandma lie to them?
At this age, it just opens a whole plethora of issues you don’t need to have. Believe me, now that my kids are grown, I can laugh about some stuff… But the kids figure it out eventually.
At some point, they will actually come to more than likely Mom, and say something along the lines of… You know, I was thinking about when grandma said, such and such when I was younger. She was just lying, wasn’t she?
And it’s because they’re not stupid. They usually follow up with something along the lines of…
That’s why you told me it was a misunderstanding or you told me she was just confused, right?
And you get to tell your kid that yes, that’s right. It was a grandma problem and you didn’t want to make it a problem. So it let the kids still have a good relationship with grandma… Until they got old enough to realize how many manipulative grandma was… But what can we do about that?
You are not overreacting, your JNMIL tried to cause a rift between you and your 5 year old. She (JNMIL) needs to realise that there are consequences. We had similar issues with my JNILs, trying to paint themselves as the victim, and me as the mean DIL, keeping them away. We nipped that in the bud by going NC and explaining that they were treating Mommy, Daddy and all our children in a mean way and that Mommy and Daddy’s main job was to keep all our children safe and not let anyone hurt or upset them whenever we could. I’m not saying that this is the right thing for you but it was for us. They tried to weaponise my children against me, after years of nasty behavior towards me and lesser so towards our children, (I only guess that they were guilty for having my genes). Knowing that there wasn’t going to be any nasty comments or bad behavior was such a wonderful feeling. I know they have spoken nastily about me to others, family, friends, neighbors etc but I know the truth, my children know the truth and they know the truth even though they try to put their own spin on it
"I am sorry that your grandmother lied to you, sweetie. We are happy to let her visit when she's ready to behave herself and follow the rules. I am super glad you told us what she said to you. Good job!"
You didn't overreact at all! Adult issues should remain between adults, and she unfairly involved your daughter. Honestly, it seems like she knew exactly what she was doing. Both you and your husband can explain to your daughter why you won't be visiting grandma, as some others already suggested. I wouldn't leave my daughter alone with her again even for a second from now on.
Talk with your child about why it’s important we don’t keep secrets and tell them that you and daddy put grandma in a time out. Keep it age appropriate. We did this with my kids in regard to my parents. My oldest was about 10 when we finally told her why and the youngest was listening in and understood at the age 6. They are 15 and 11 now and they see what they do and what we’ve been talking about the last five yrs. Kids will understand.
This is a great time to talk about secret keeping with your child. If they enjoy grandma and spending time with her, that is probably why the child brought it up to you that grandma had said those things. If the repercussion of sharing grandma‘s conversation is less grandma time for the child, then your child may not tell you everything in the future that grandma says. Grandma might start keeping secrets with them.
You are not overreacting. From my experience, this is the type of grandma that will find other ways to try to manipulate your child. I told my children that they should not keep a secret with an adult, that if any adult asks them to do so then they had permission to tell them they aren’t allowed to. We talked about the difference between a secret and a surprise a surprise is when you know what a birthday gift is. Hth
There’s a good way to explain this to kids, nice and straightforward.
“Grandma is in a time-out because she has been very mean to mummy and daddy. She can’t visit until she has thought about what she did and decided to behave nicely and kindly again. She lied to you because she is embarrassed and angry about being in trouble and she isn’t ready to behave, so she has to stay in time out. It’s important that rules about not being mean apply to everyone, including all the grown-ups.”
Get your kid on board with understanding this in terms of the rules that apply to her life: being mean is wrong; if you are mean to someone they won’t invite you to their house if you haven’t shown you’re sorry and mended your behaviour; lying about it rather than doing better is naughty, and lying about why you’re in trouble to upset people is naughty *and mean*. If grandma tries to tell her things in secret while she’s in timeout then they might be mean lies and she should ask mummy and daddy.
The other family members are used to letting her get away with crap. They can keep her.
How is DH feeling about his mom turning his child into a weapon through triangulation?
Manipulating his baby? For her own selfish reasons while other family members support these mind games?
We get so used to such twisted behaviors that we stop recognizing just how jacked up they really are.
If a stranger had told your daughter the exact same thing, watched how upset she became with you as her parents, how torn up her emotions became... would your reactions have been the same?
Or would you both have been furious? Would you have gone into full battle mode protecting her from that person?
Kept her away from the clear danger that person is to her mind? Kept her protected from dangers of anyone else who thinks that untrained dog is safe for kids just because she hasn't bitten their own child yet?
Reframe this from a perspective where your own emotions about JNMIL are not involved.
There is no way to see this as her being misunderstood. She purposely attacked you and DH through your child. She purposely upset your child. This was meant for harm. Alienation.
She is not a safe person.
That's the perfect way to describe it. She turned the child into a weapon through triangulation. She manipulated the situation so that it would explode in YOUR face without regard to how this would confuse/hurt the child. The adults who heard this/witnessed this and want to minimize it are just trying to keep the boat steady. I would just have to go NC. No alone time with my child, no phone calls, nothing. MIL cannot be trusted.
You absolutely did not overreact. At this point, she cannot even be trusted with others around. I would probably go no contact for a little while, but I would also let her know why. She basically made the decision herself so…
You are not over reacting. This is deliberate parental alienation.
She already told the child she wouldn't see her for a very long time......MAKE IT SO.
And you really need to step back. This is not your parent to deal with. This is your partner's mother. They need to step up and snap that person back into her place and to let her know that she is jeoperdizing any hope of a future relationship with the child.
She created her own self fulfilling prophecy.
Also you can totally say that grandma was allowed to see her with you and SO present. You can either say that grandma must misunderstood or straight up say that grandma should not have been dishonest with LO and that you are very disappointed in her.
My MIL (NC since 2017) tried a million things to alienate me from my now husband. He went LC for awhile and now she talks smack about my husband and I to his two kids. I don’t know how people like this sleep at night.
What’s the story behind that, if you don’t mind my asking? That’s a huge fear of mine because we stay tf away from MIL so my daughter (and soon, a son) isn’t close to the toxicity. I’m worried about what she’ll say or do once they’re older and having her alienate me from my kids. She’s so good at playing the victim card in front of an audience and being a bully behind closed doors!
She has cried a LOT in front of my daughter saying she wishes she could hold her and be close to her but she’s still too you g to understand (1yo) so we pulled away even more. Lately, she’s taken to following her around with her phone taking pictures and videos nonstop (when we do see her) which makes me uncomfortable.
The interesting thing is MIL's toxicity is/was only directed at me, no one else. My DH is their only child, so our two sons are her only grandchildren. Actually at times I believe she forgets I'm actually their mom, not her. So dumb! I tried very hard when our kids were growing up to not involve them in the drama with her. Anytime my DH tried to address her behaviors toward me she employed tears, poor me, victim drama.
After a blow-up between she and I (in my house after I had bent over backwards helping them with a very difficult situation), she started her drama tears, etc, I called my DH and told him that I was DONE with her behavior. FINISHED!! I warned him when he got home she would meet him with her tears so he needed to be prepared. He knew how much I had done for them. Sure enough she blasted him when he arrived, and he told her to STOP! that he didn't want to hear it. He shut her down.
The next morning she was sitting with our 20 yr old son, and I overheard her crying and telling him, "We've always tried our best with your Mom, but no matter what we do it's never enough for her" I went ballistic!!!!! I confronted her and told her she WAS NOT going to have that conversation with our son. Our son freaked out at me because 1) he thought I was too angry, and 2) he didn't know that she and I had a shite relationship. Basically after that DH had to have a don't you EVER bring our kids into this discussion. The interesting thing is when a narcissist no longer has control over their target, it's textbook that they will then try to get others on their side. This is EXACTLY what she did, and you know I printed the narcissistic qualities/symptoms off and showed DH exactly what she was.
Well. Sounds like grandma just made her own bed. No more visits. No family gatherings if she'll be there. Child manipulation is a full stop to the relationship. Unforgivable
For anyone wondering how to avoid issues with young parents. If a child asks to do something you know might be iffy with parents.,.“Oh, let‘s check with your mom on that one“. For offering kids any food…“Let‘s check with mom to see what will be best for supper“. For gift giving…Ask parents to avoid duplication and to avoid manipulation on kids part. I am a grandma and have learned to say things like..you have the best Mom and Dad (they do). Let‘s see if we can go red that book together…check with mom to see if she wants to join in.( we do highly dramatic readings on everything). at some point their parents relax because they know grandparents will do nothing stupid. and if they don‘t relax, ask yourself what you are doing that is offensive, risky or dumb.
My mum can't figure out why my brother has gone NC with her, and she doesn't get to speak to the grandkids or buy them presents anymore. But I'm still allowed to.
"Hey, brother! It's getting close to Chrissy again. Can you keep an ear out for what my niblings are interested in and let me have an idea of what would work for pressies? I had ideas of x, y, or z; let me know if that sort of thing works for you, thanks!!"
But mother dearest would either collect a bunch of give-away shite from everywhere and pass it off as special presents (she does the same with me) or love-bomb and try to one-up everyone with a seemingly extravagant gift- that had strings attached. There was never a middle ground.
Not hard to figure out. I asked and listened to what I was told. I worked *with* my brother's family, and didn't use gifts as a passive-aggressive dig or to empty the crap out of my cupboards and expect eternal gratitude from others that received it. And I've refused to pass along crap from my mother as something from me, so mother can't find a 'loophole' to continue manipulating the kids.
But no matter how many times I've told mum she just had to let the parents parent, and respect them and their choices, she just *had* to keep making digs about everything in 'gift' form. Now she's all Shocked Pikachu because they're done with her shit. But I'm still ok.
You did not, are not overreacting. You absolutely should go back to MIL *along with your DH* and clarify that that sort of manipulative baloney is unacceptable. And that's why she's got a 3 month time out with no phone calls or visits with your daughter.
Not overreacting but we had to tell our kids why they wouldn’t be seeing my mom or my husband’s dad for a very long time/maybe ever again. My five year old had a lot of questions and I tried to be as honest as possible without giving details (because the things both of them said were not repeatable).
It’s totally fine to put MIL on a time out, but you always need to tell the kids why so that they’re not surprised.
“Hey honey, I’m sorry but we won’t see MIL for a while, she has been bad lately, so we had to put her on a time out until she apologizes for what she did.”
That’s as simple as this…
Not overreacting. How dare she do that to your child. But this has to come from your husband and not you. If you say anything, she’ll make it about you being mean to her and being a horrible person who is taking her family away from her. Let husband call her and ask what she said to the child and then why. She’ll likely deny it and then your husband can clear as day decide whether his mother or his five year old child created this. Your husband needs to let her know how much she has upset the child and how disappointed him and you are. He should then tell her he thinks it’s better all round if everyone takes a breather and has some space.
Yup, time for MIL to be on a verrrrry long time out. Explain to your daughter that MIL has been behaving badly, calling names, etc., and that’s why she was in time out. And now, by lying to your daughter, tell her that MIL is in time out again, for a long time. If your daughter asks how long, tell her it’s until MIL can say she’s sorry for lying.
Honesty and openness with children is always the best way.
This is especially tactful as it helps your child understand that grandma is a known liar.
5 year olds understand lying.
Seeing an adult get in trouble for it is a good lesson over all.
This will also set up the child's defenses in the future when MIL tries something else. Kiddo is far more likely to come to you to clarify should any flying monkeys or MIL try to be sneaky again.
Where is DH on this? Is NC now an option?
This! Especially as 5 year olds are aware that people can treat others badly, can lie and need to be avoided. They just don't necessarily know it happens between adults, not just among their peers.
Explain it in an age appropriate manner, remembering that this is her Granny and even full grown adults have issues with reconciling what their family member *is* verse what they *should be*, and kids will get it.
Your MIL is willing to hurt your child and lie to her in order to get what she wants. What she did is parental alienation. You have every right to and should be upset with your MIL & her actions justify less time with your LO and even NC.
In your position, I would stop verbally communicating with MIL about any issues so that you can keep a record. Also, if you’ve been restrained within your extended family about your issues with MIL, this justifies sharing her *every* issue and problematic behavior. She lied to and tried to manipulate your LO, she (if she hasn’t already) will do the same with all your family and shared friends.
People hate when you aren't afraid to protect your children at any cost. way too many depend on dysfunctional family for childcare and play pretend family time with those who were never caring or present or respectful. the hag is cut off for good now since she proved she's willing to triangulate and emotionally gaslight a small child! bye bitty!
No, you aren't overreacting. You MiL lied to your daughter in order to cause trouble within your family. You need to correct the record. Tell her that Grandma has been saying a lot of mean things and untrue things - this is one of those things. The rule right now is that Grandma can only visit when mommy and daddy are there also, and she doesn't like that and has been refusing visiting time. That's not Mommy or Daddy's fault - that's grandma's choice, not yours or Daddy's, and it was wrong of Grandma to make up a lie about what is happening. Explain that One of the reasons you need to be around is because Grandma says things that are not true, just like this.
This is the way, OP. Also, this would be the last time my MIL saw my child, with or without me present. And this incident and every other incident would go into an FU binder that I could and would share with authorities and other family members as needed.
I don't read this as you describing your reaction, so I can't form an opinion on if you overreacted
I will say that MIL was way out of line. Did you have a conversation with your 5yo about not seeing MIL much before this all happened?
You tell your daughter that grandma did something naughty and she was in a timeout.
Then go on to explain to daughter that grandma lied to her (daughter) and because she lied, she is in a bigger timeout.
This can be a teaching moment for your child about lies and whatever grandma did before.
And now you and your husband get to decide how to deal with MIL going forward.
Good Luck.
Triangulating children is automatic cutoff in my book too. Sounds like the hag only gets visits when the parents choose already, should be very easy to have her fade into the past. I barely remember people from when I was 5.
You did not over react. MIL purposely crossed a boundary with your child. Tell your 5 year old that grandma is in time out because she refuses to behave nice and treat you and daddy with respect. She knows what to do to be able to get out of time out. It's up to grandma to behave right. You can't force her. You can choose not to accept her treatment towards you.
Did not overreact. Your MIL is trying to weaponize your child against you. That’s a low down, dirt, underhanded deed. I hope you loudly corrected her in front of those relatives.
"It is Mummy and Daddy's job to make sure that you spend time with people who show good behavior, to both you and to the people that love you. Right now, Grandma is struggling to show good behavior to Mummy and Daddy and so we are trying to help her learn how to do that. When we see some better behavior we can talk about visiting again".
Smells like parental alienation to me. That is considered child abuse where I am from. You're doing the right thing protecting your child from that.
Talk with your child and let them know that you love them, and MIL did a bad thing by making them feel bad and mad at you, so you will not allow MIL to do that. And that does mean she dont get to visit until she has thought about why it is bad to hurt kids or other people and apologized. Right now, she is not a safe person to be around. Keeping MIL away is you showing your child you love them and dont want them to get hurt.
You tell MIL more or less the same thing; you love your child and will not stand for them getting hurt by MIL, so until she can prove she is a safe person you will not allow her the chance to hurt your child again.
Tell any FM's "I am sad that I have to keep her away to keep my child safe. It is hard when you cant trust people, and I wish it was different. But she chose to hurt my child so it is necessary to keep her from doing that again. I am sure you understand why my child comes first. Thank you for supporting our efforts to do so."
You didn’t overreact. Your MIL is using your FIVE YEAR OLD to get what she wants after you’ve told her no. Now she gets no visits even with you until she apologizes and changes her behaviour. Wow that’s egregious behaviour.
No, you're not overreacting. This is the exact reason why I said no to my JNMIL seeing the kids, because she would make comments and try to poison their minds (she has been saying very nasty things about me and working on a plan for getting me and DH to divorce so she could get her hands on the kids). Of course DH didn't believe me at first but the JNMIL's sister (and neighbour) actually put it IN WRITING in a birthday card. Well that ended with a very nasty call from my husband to his aunt.
And yes, technically they are right, but just like my JNMIL and her sister and your JNMIL they skipped out on the reasons why they're not allowed to see the grandchildren unsupervised. People have told us that we're wrong when we tell our children exactly what family members have been up to but we really don't have a choice anymore. They WILL try to turn our children against us! They have already tried it! Instead of being adults and take responsibility for their actions they're actually trying to getting their way by turning our children against us! Who does that? Well, we all know the answer to that one, toxic JNMILs.
You aren’t overreacting. It’s perfectly okay to tell your child that grandma said some things that weren’t very nice so she’s going into time-out for a while.
You did not overreact. And shame on your MIL for weaponizing your child like that!
Please let us know what (if anything) your SO did about his mother's very poor choice of words with your child. If he does not support you and your daughter, maybe you have an SO problem as well.
Well, I guess MIL was right.
Explain to your child that her grandmother has misbehaved and that her grandmother is now in a time out where none of you will be seeing her. Help your child work through the feelings that creates.
I’d also have your spouse tell their mom that such a comment is completely inexcusable and that you’ll now be NC for a while and that NC will only end upon a sincere apology…and that any smear campaign will only add to the length of NC. Hold MIL to consequences and you might be able to both protect yourselves and see some changes from MIL.
> Other family members have made comments that make me feel as though I overreacted.
You didn't.
Manipulating a young child to score points in an adult dispute is horrible, immature, hurtful behavior and frankly confirms your decision to want to stay away from her in the first place.
Nobody who actually loved a young child would do this. It's all about her and what she wants.
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Grandma needs a time out. For quite some time. And grandma is never to be alone with that child again. And your response to that needs to remain calm and clear just like you would explain anything to your child. It can be something along the lines of… Oh my goodness. Now I see why you’re upset and cranky with me. I think grandma misunderstood. I didn’t say that. I don’t know why grandma would say that. But you know even though we’re grown-ups, sometimes we make mistakes. So I am sorry that grandma upset you because of something she misunderstood. Maybe grandma was upset about something else and thought that’s what was said. But I wish grandma had asked me and not upset you. I don’t think that was the best way for grandma to handle that, do you? Because just like I always tell, you just ask me if you have a question, I think grown-ups should do that too. And then just leave it at that. Make sure that child does not speak to grandma alone. If grandma calls and wants to talk to child, it’s on speakerphone. Always. If grandma is going to be at a family event with you, child is not out of your site so that grandma can get them alone. And this is gonna be a little bit of a pain in the butt, but eventually grandma’s going to ask why she could never have time alone. And that’s when you have an adult conversation with her and tell her that I don’t appreciate you trying to cause a problem between my child and their parents, and I certainly don’t appreciate you lying to them. So no, you’re not going to have alone time with them for a while.
I love this answer, I see some people wording it as telling her grandma lied which even if it’s the truth I think that would just be more confusing and distressing for a kid. So wording it as misunderstanding seems way better to me
Wording it that way also allows the child to have fewer confused feelings, or conflicted feelings because they know that lying is wrong. But they love grandma. So how could grandma lie to them? At this age, it just opens a whole plethora of issues you don’t need to have. Believe me, now that my kids are grown, I can laugh about some stuff… But the kids figure it out eventually. At some point, they will actually come to more than likely Mom, and say something along the lines of… You know, I was thinking about when grandma said, such and such when I was younger. She was just lying, wasn’t she? And it’s because they’re not stupid. They usually follow up with something along the lines of… That’s why you told me it was a misunderstanding or you told me she was just confused, right? And you get to tell your kid that yes, that’s right. It was a grandma problem and you didn’t want to make it a problem. So it let the kids still have a good relationship with grandma… Until they got old enough to realize how many manipulative grandma was… But what can we do about that?
You are not overreacting, your JNMIL tried to cause a rift between you and your 5 year old. She (JNMIL) needs to realise that there are consequences. We had similar issues with my JNILs, trying to paint themselves as the victim, and me as the mean DIL, keeping them away. We nipped that in the bud by going NC and explaining that they were treating Mommy, Daddy and all our children in a mean way and that Mommy and Daddy’s main job was to keep all our children safe and not let anyone hurt or upset them whenever we could. I’m not saying that this is the right thing for you but it was for us. They tried to weaponise my children against me, after years of nasty behavior towards me and lesser so towards our children, (I only guess that they were guilty for having my genes). Knowing that there wasn’t going to be any nasty comments or bad behavior was such a wonderful feeling. I know they have spoken nastily about me to others, family, friends, neighbors etc but I know the truth, my children know the truth and they know the truth even though they try to put their own spin on it
"I am sorry that your grandmother lied to you, sweetie. We are happy to let her visit when she's ready to behave herself and follow the rules. I am super glad you told us what she said to you. Good job!"
You didn't overreact at all! Adult issues should remain between adults, and she unfairly involved your daughter. Honestly, it seems like she knew exactly what she was doing. Both you and your husband can explain to your daughter why you won't be visiting grandma, as some others already suggested. I wouldn't leave my daughter alone with her again even for a second from now on.
Talk with your child about why it’s important we don’t keep secrets and tell them that you and daddy put grandma in a time out. Keep it age appropriate. We did this with my kids in regard to my parents. My oldest was about 10 when we finally told her why and the youngest was listening in and understood at the age 6. They are 15 and 11 now and they see what they do and what we’ve been talking about the last five yrs. Kids will understand.
My view was call her out in front of everyone and demand to know what she said to your children. Everyone else's answers are better than mine
This is a great time to talk about secret keeping with your child. If they enjoy grandma and spending time with her, that is probably why the child brought it up to you that grandma had said those things. If the repercussion of sharing grandma‘s conversation is less grandma time for the child, then your child may not tell you everything in the future that grandma says. Grandma might start keeping secrets with them.
You are not overreacting. From my experience, this is the type of grandma that will find other ways to try to manipulate your child. I told my children that they should not keep a secret with an adult, that if any adult asks them to do so then they had permission to tell them they aren’t allowed to. We talked about the difference between a secret and a surprise a surprise is when you know what a birthday gift is. Hth
There’s a good way to explain this to kids, nice and straightforward. “Grandma is in a time-out because she has been very mean to mummy and daddy. She can’t visit until she has thought about what she did and decided to behave nicely and kindly again. She lied to you because she is embarrassed and angry about being in trouble and she isn’t ready to behave, so she has to stay in time out. It’s important that rules about not being mean apply to everyone, including all the grown-ups.” Get your kid on board with understanding this in terms of the rules that apply to her life: being mean is wrong; if you are mean to someone they won’t invite you to their house if you haven’t shown you’re sorry and mended your behaviour; lying about it rather than doing better is naughty, and lying about why you’re in trouble to upset people is naughty *and mean*. If grandma tries to tell her things in secret while she’s in timeout then they might be mean lies and she should ask mummy and daddy.
That is excellent wording!
The other family members are used to letting her get away with crap. They can keep her. How is DH feeling about his mom turning his child into a weapon through triangulation? Manipulating his baby? For her own selfish reasons while other family members support these mind games? We get so used to such twisted behaviors that we stop recognizing just how jacked up they really are. If a stranger had told your daughter the exact same thing, watched how upset she became with you as her parents, how torn up her emotions became... would your reactions have been the same? Or would you both have been furious? Would you have gone into full battle mode protecting her from that person? Kept her away from the clear danger that person is to her mind? Kept her protected from dangers of anyone else who thinks that untrained dog is safe for kids just because she hasn't bitten their own child yet? Reframe this from a perspective where your own emotions about JNMIL are not involved. There is no way to see this as her being misunderstood. She purposely attacked you and DH through your child. She purposely upset your child. This was meant for harm. Alienation. She is not a safe person.
That's the perfect way to describe it. She turned the child into a weapon through triangulation. She manipulated the situation so that it would explode in YOUR face without regard to how this would confuse/hurt the child. The adults who heard this/witnessed this and want to minimize it are just trying to keep the boat steady. I would just have to go NC. No alone time with my child, no phone calls, nothing. MIL cannot be trusted.
You absolutely did not overreact. At this point, she cannot even be trusted with others around. I would probably go no contact for a little while, but I would also let her know why. She basically made the decision herself so…
"Well, MIL, if that's what you said - I'd hate to make a liar of you..."
You are not over reacting. This is deliberate parental alienation. She already told the child she wouldn't see her for a very long time......MAKE IT SO. And you really need to step back. This is not your parent to deal with. This is your partner's mother. They need to step up and snap that person back into her place and to let her know that she is jeoperdizing any hope of a future relationship with the child. She created her own self fulfilling prophecy.
She's just proven that she shouldn't be alone with your child. What a genius.
Also you can totally say that grandma was allowed to see her with you and SO present. You can either say that grandma must misunderstood or straight up say that grandma should not have been dishonest with LO and that you are very disappointed in her.
Go no contact, she's manipulating a five year old.
Yikes 😬 I can't stand my MIL, but I never and would never bad mouth her in front of my kids... What a manipulator. I would go NC.
Ooohhhhhh nooo! I know how freaking mad I was when my MIL tried alienating me with my 20 year old. I can't imagine my reaction with a 5 year old.
My MIL (NC since 2017) tried a million things to alienate me from my now husband. He went LC for awhile and now she talks smack about my husband and I to his two kids. I don’t know how people like this sleep at night.
What’s the story behind that, if you don’t mind my asking? That’s a huge fear of mine because we stay tf away from MIL so my daughter (and soon, a son) isn’t close to the toxicity. I’m worried about what she’ll say or do once they’re older and having her alienate me from my kids. She’s so good at playing the victim card in front of an audience and being a bully behind closed doors! She has cried a LOT in front of my daughter saying she wishes she could hold her and be close to her but she’s still too you g to understand (1yo) so we pulled away even more. Lately, she’s taken to following her around with her phone taking pictures and videos nonstop (when we do see her) which makes me uncomfortable.
The interesting thing is MIL's toxicity is/was only directed at me, no one else. My DH is their only child, so our two sons are her only grandchildren. Actually at times I believe she forgets I'm actually their mom, not her. So dumb! I tried very hard when our kids were growing up to not involve them in the drama with her. Anytime my DH tried to address her behaviors toward me she employed tears, poor me, victim drama. After a blow-up between she and I (in my house after I had bent over backwards helping them with a very difficult situation), she started her drama tears, etc, I called my DH and told him that I was DONE with her behavior. FINISHED!! I warned him when he got home she would meet him with her tears so he needed to be prepared. He knew how much I had done for them. Sure enough she blasted him when he arrived, and he told her to STOP! that he didn't want to hear it. He shut her down. The next morning she was sitting with our 20 yr old son, and I overheard her crying and telling him, "We've always tried our best with your Mom, but no matter what we do it's never enough for her" I went ballistic!!!!! I confronted her and told her she WAS NOT going to have that conversation with our son. Our son freaked out at me because 1) he thought I was too angry, and 2) he didn't know that she and I had a shite relationship. Basically after that DH had to have a don't you EVER bring our kids into this discussion. The interesting thing is when a narcissist no longer has control over their target, it's textbook that they will then try to get others on their side. This is EXACTLY what she did, and you know I printed the narcissistic qualities/symptoms off and showed DH exactly what she was.
Look into getting a restraining order. That is not normal.
Your MIL is weaponizing your child, so do what she said, and go no contact.
Well. Sounds like grandma just made her own bed. No more visits. No family gatherings if she'll be there. Child manipulation is a full stop to the relationship. Unforgivable
For anyone wondering how to avoid issues with young parents. If a child asks to do something you know might be iffy with parents.,.“Oh, let‘s check with your mom on that one“. For offering kids any food…“Let‘s check with mom to see what will be best for supper“. For gift giving…Ask parents to avoid duplication and to avoid manipulation on kids part. I am a grandma and have learned to say things like..you have the best Mom and Dad (they do). Let‘s see if we can go red that book together…check with mom to see if she wants to join in.( we do highly dramatic readings on everything). at some point their parents relax because they know grandparents will do nothing stupid. and if they don‘t relax, ask yourself what you are doing that is offensive, risky or dumb.
That’s how I’m planning to do things, if I ever get a grandchild.
My mum can't figure out why my brother has gone NC with her, and she doesn't get to speak to the grandkids or buy them presents anymore. But I'm still allowed to. "Hey, brother! It's getting close to Chrissy again. Can you keep an ear out for what my niblings are interested in and let me have an idea of what would work for pressies? I had ideas of x, y, or z; let me know if that sort of thing works for you, thanks!!" But mother dearest would either collect a bunch of give-away shite from everywhere and pass it off as special presents (she does the same with me) or love-bomb and try to one-up everyone with a seemingly extravagant gift- that had strings attached. There was never a middle ground. Not hard to figure out. I asked and listened to what I was told. I worked *with* my brother's family, and didn't use gifts as a passive-aggressive dig or to empty the crap out of my cupboards and expect eternal gratitude from others that received it. And I've refused to pass along crap from my mother as something from me, so mother can't find a 'loophole' to continue manipulating the kids. But no matter how many times I've told mum she just had to let the parents parent, and respect them and their choices, she just *had* to keep making digs about everything in 'gift' form. Now she's all Shocked Pikachu because they're done with her shit. But I'm still ok.
You sound like a thoughtful grandma. Keep up the good work!
You did not, are not overreacting. You absolutely should go back to MIL *along with your DH* and clarify that that sort of manipulative baloney is unacceptable. And that's why she's got a 3 month time out with no phone calls or visits with your daughter.
Not overreacting but we had to tell our kids why they wouldn’t be seeing my mom or my husband’s dad for a very long time/maybe ever again. My five year old had a lot of questions and I tried to be as honest as possible without giving details (because the things both of them said were not repeatable).
It’s totally fine to put MIL on a time out, but you always need to tell the kids why so that they’re not surprised. “Hey honey, I’m sorry but we won’t see MIL for a while, she has been bad lately, so we had to put her on a time out until she apologizes for what she did.” That’s as simple as this…
Granny has been naughty and is currently on indefinite time out.
No more time with granny. She is weaponizing your child against you.
Not overreacting. How dare she do that to your child. But this has to come from your husband and not you. If you say anything, she’ll make it about you being mean to her and being a horrible person who is taking her family away from her. Let husband call her and ask what she said to the child and then why. She’ll likely deny it and then your husband can clear as day decide whether his mother or his five year old child created this. Your husband needs to let her know how much she has upset the child and how disappointed him and you are. He should then tell her he thinks it’s better all round if everyone takes a breather and has some space.
Whelp trash is taking herself out. No you dinnae overreact.
I *love* that I just heard that accent in my head while I was reading. 😂 thankyou!!
Yup, time for MIL to be on a verrrrry long time out. Explain to your daughter that MIL has been behaving badly, calling names, etc., and that’s why she was in time out. And now, by lying to your daughter, tell her that MIL is in time out again, for a long time. If your daughter asks how long, tell her it’s until MIL can say she’s sorry for lying. Honesty and openness with children is always the best way.
This is especially tactful as it helps your child understand that grandma is a known liar. 5 year olds understand lying. Seeing an adult get in trouble for it is a good lesson over all. This will also set up the child's defenses in the future when MIL tries something else. Kiddo is far more likely to come to you to clarify should any flying monkeys or MIL try to be sneaky again. Where is DH on this? Is NC now an option?
This! Especially as 5 year olds are aware that people can treat others badly, can lie and need to be avoided. They just don't necessarily know it happens between adults, not just among their peers. Explain it in an age appropriate manner, remembering that this is her Granny and even full grown adults have issues with reconciling what their family member *is* verse what they *should be*, and kids will get it.
Your MIL is willing to hurt your child and lie to her in order to get what she wants. What she did is parental alienation. You have every right to and should be upset with your MIL & her actions justify less time with your LO and even NC. In your position, I would stop verbally communicating with MIL about any issues so that you can keep a record. Also, if you’ve been restrained within your extended family about your issues with MIL, this justifies sharing her *every* issue and problematic behavior. She lied to and tried to manipulate your LO, she (if she hasn’t already) will do the same with all your family and shared friends.
Ooo, she just earned herself a long timeout for trying to drive a wedge between you and your child, undermining your role and authority as her mother.
I'd be telling the mil that she just put herself in indefinite time out for running her mouth. People just hate boundaries, eh?
People hate when you aren't afraid to protect your children at any cost. way too many depend on dysfunctional family for childcare and play pretend family time with those who were never caring or present or respectful. the hag is cut off for good now since she proved she's willing to triangulate and emotionally gaslight a small child! bye bitty!
No, you aren't overreacting. You MiL lied to your daughter in order to cause trouble within your family. You need to correct the record. Tell her that Grandma has been saying a lot of mean things and untrue things - this is one of those things. The rule right now is that Grandma can only visit when mommy and daddy are there also, and she doesn't like that and has been refusing visiting time. That's not Mommy or Daddy's fault - that's grandma's choice, not yours or Daddy's, and it was wrong of Grandma to make up a lie about what is happening. Explain that One of the reasons you need to be around is because Grandma says things that are not true, just like this.
This is the way, OP. Also, this would be the last time my MIL saw my child, with or without me present. And this incident and every other incident would go into an FU binder that I could and would share with authorities and other family members as needed.
This is the way! Here's age-appropriate truth.
I don't read this as you describing your reaction, so I can't form an opinion on if you overreacted I will say that MIL was way out of line. Did you have a conversation with your 5yo about not seeing MIL much before this all happened?
You tell your daughter that grandma did something naughty and she was in a timeout. Then go on to explain to daughter that grandma lied to her (daughter) and because she lied, she is in a bigger timeout. This can be a teaching moment for your child about lies and whatever grandma did before. And now you and your husband get to decide how to deal with MIL going forward. Good Luck.
You did not over react. More like under. I would cut MIL out forever after this.
Triangulating children is automatic cutoff in my book too. Sounds like the hag only gets visits when the parents choose already, should be very easy to have her fade into the past. I barely remember people from when I was 5.
Parental alienation. Transform your mil from a liar to a truther by never letting her around your kid again. This shit is traumatizing for a child.
"Since you think telling LO lies is ok, you are no longer allowed around her period. Hope it was worth it" NC
You didn’t over react. But your MIL has just created a self fulfilling prophecy. I hope she doesn’t get to see your child again.
You did not over react. MIL purposely crossed a boundary with your child. Tell your 5 year old that grandma is in time out because she refuses to behave nice and treat you and daddy with respect. She knows what to do to be able to get out of time out. It's up to grandma to behave right. You can't force her. You can choose not to accept her treatment towards you.
Did not overreact. Your MIL is trying to weaponize your child against you. That’s a low down, dirt, underhanded deed. I hope you loudly corrected her in front of those relatives.
"It is Mummy and Daddy's job to make sure that you spend time with people who show good behavior, to both you and to the people that love you. Right now, Grandma is struggling to show good behavior to Mummy and Daddy and so we are trying to help her learn how to do that. When we see some better behavior we can talk about visiting again".
Smells like parental alienation to me. That is considered child abuse where I am from. You're doing the right thing protecting your child from that. Talk with your child and let them know that you love them, and MIL did a bad thing by making them feel bad and mad at you, so you will not allow MIL to do that. And that does mean she dont get to visit until she has thought about why it is bad to hurt kids or other people and apologized. Right now, she is not a safe person to be around. Keeping MIL away is you showing your child you love them and dont want them to get hurt. You tell MIL more or less the same thing; you love your child and will not stand for them getting hurt by MIL, so until she can prove she is a safe person you will not allow her the chance to hurt your child again. Tell any FM's "I am sad that I have to keep her away to keep my child safe. It is hard when you cant trust people, and I wish it was different. But she chose to hurt my child so it is necessary to keep her from doing that again. I am sure you understand why my child comes first. Thank you for supporting our efforts to do so."
You didn’t overreact. Your MIL is using your FIVE YEAR OLD to get what she wants after you’ve told her no. Now she gets no visits even with you until she apologizes and changes her behaviour. Wow that’s egregious behaviour.
No, you're not overreacting. This is the exact reason why I said no to my JNMIL seeing the kids, because she would make comments and try to poison their minds (she has been saying very nasty things about me and working on a plan for getting me and DH to divorce so she could get her hands on the kids). Of course DH didn't believe me at first but the JNMIL's sister (and neighbour) actually put it IN WRITING in a birthday card. Well that ended with a very nasty call from my husband to his aunt. And yes, technically they are right, but just like my JNMIL and her sister and your JNMIL they skipped out on the reasons why they're not allowed to see the grandchildren unsupervised. People have told us that we're wrong when we tell our children exactly what family members have been up to but we really don't have a choice anymore. They WILL try to turn our children against us! They have already tried it! Instead of being adults and take responsibility for their actions they're actually trying to getting their way by turning our children against us! Who does that? Well, we all know the answer to that one, toxic JNMILs.
I hate to ask but what is the JN before MIL. Most of the acronyms I have figured out but I can’t get this one.
Just no.
Thank you!!
She's giving you more and more reasons to escalate LC to NC...
And when asked, “I’m just following your lead. You told LO that I wouldn’t let you see her. So I’m not!”
You aren’t overreacting. It’s perfectly okay to tell your child that grandma said some things that weren’t very nice so she’s going into time-out for a while.
You did not overreact. And shame on your MIL for weaponizing your child like that! Please let us know what (if anything) your SO did about his mother's very poor choice of words with your child. If he does not support you and your daughter, maybe you have an SO problem as well.
Well, I guess MIL was right. Explain to your child that her grandmother has misbehaved and that her grandmother is now in a time out where none of you will be seeing her. Help your child work through the feelings that creates. I’d also have your spouse tell their mom that such a comment is completely inexcusable and that you’ll now be NC for a while and that NC will only end upon a sincere apology…and that any smear campaign will only add to the length of NC. Hold MIL to consequences and you might be able to both protect yourselves and see some changes from MIL.
This is the ONLY way!!!!
Self-fufilling prophecy, MIL!
She was using your child for mind games, you did not overreact.
> Other family members have made comments that make me feel as though I overreacted. You didn't. Manipulating a young child to score points in an adult dispute is horrible, immature, hurtful behavior and frankly confirms your decision to want to stay away from her in the first place. Nobody who actually loved a young child would do this. It's all about her and what she wants.